Ahh. Thank you so much for expressing my exact thoughts....I think k your phrase kinda sums up everything about them. And, IMHO, your phrase describes completely the current government here in the UK. I've thought for a long time now that the reason they still have (at least some) support in the UK population is that so many people CAN'T see what you said. You need to have a certain amount of emotional growth and maturity, and sadly, it seems, many people don't. Thanks so much, and all the best👍🙏
You are so right Karen….they want to “look” good and it would be easier to be good. They will tell you that they are good while they are sabotaging you behind your back!
If you try to have a conversation online or on the phone it's the same, you do all the talking or "messaging". "Are you there"? (How many times did we type that?)
@@eleanorrae7378 And that is natural because parents should be the first and foremost we should be able to trust. Siblings too. But genetic links are the wild cards that we have no control over. I felt so isolated before the internet. Now we can share and support.
My husband of 13 years discarded me and our kids like trash. We met when he had nothing, we built everything together then a new shiny thing came by he blamed me for not being more successful and wealthier as he thinks he should be, he said our kids are ungrateful and he could do better with new kids . I was beyond heartbroken. I never thought I could ever be ok again. Thank God for taking me out of what I didn’t think I needed to get out of.
My biological father who is a Malignant Narcissist truly never was a friend even to the people who were kindest to him. I remember him betraying his friendships as he was secertly envious and jealous. It taught me the value of loyalty and love
Thank you for saying this. I'm worried my nieces will grow up to be like their father. I'm happy to hear you have learned how not to be instead of how to be. It gives me hope for those little girls! ❤
Narcissists don't have real friendships because... 1. they can't be vulnerable 2. they can't trust you 3. they can't see you 4. they don't care about you 5. you are just an object with a function 6. you are just a transaction 7. they are just a taker 8. they don't know what love is about 9. their communication is manipulation 1. Narcs are not able to attach to people because this would mean to be vulnerable themselves and being vulnerable is a threat for them for it means loosing control and power over you. 2. They see life as a competition where nobody is to be trusted. They have to win under all circumstances. 3.They are not able to see you for they are highly self-absorbed and not interested in you as a separated person. 4. They can not care about you for they have no empathy and in fact they can not even care about themselves for they only need "their own satisfaction in every moment", which is an addiction. 5. You are just a "toy tool" to be (ab)used for gaining their daily supply, regulating their emotions, doing services for them etc. 6. Their only desire is, "How useful will you be for me?" And their demand is, "You owe me!" When you are not useful anymore, you will be discarded. 7. They take everything from you without giving and so there is no equal and mutual energy flowing. 8. They are the destroyer of love for they are investing in all kind of negative feelings (anger, jalousy, hate, revenge etc.). 9. A healthy communication is not possible for they are only able to manipulate you in order to get what they want from you.
My mother was a narcissist and had loads of friends. She could be very entertaining and make people laugh. She could also be generous and hospitable. But there was one friend (a lifelong friend) who had the guts to confront her about the way she treated me. That friend was treated abominably.
As long as they play along with the mask, they'll fine. My mom hated how my grandma called her out on how she treated me. In their mind, their reality is true, so they actually feel betrayed when ppl give them a reality check.
My mom’s friends have seen hints of it towards me, but look the other way. Most was behind closed doors, so they didn’t see it. But my absence at the thanksgiving dinner speaks volumes.
My narc mom seemed to have so many friends to me as a child. As an adult I realize it’s a gossip circle of on/off codependent connections in our town’s faith community, one-upmanship, lying publicly for status, throwing each other under the bus, showing off, and devalue/discard cycles. The wealthy friends and pets are treated better than relatives. 0:00
That’s my mom too, lol. Looking back, some of her “friends” as people were actually healthy. But the relationships my mom had with those people were always superficial, so I guess even healthy people can be naive or ignorant to toxicity
@@MBarberfan4life Yes! The healthier ones are either used by narc mom for pity or to manipulate. They buy all the lies. The predatory types are used to social climb!
My mom’s toxic friends now call themselves FUFI - F’d Up Families Inc. they are referring to their own families of origin with so much fighting. It was a helpful clue once I woke up!
Well said. This is a great summary of many of their crazy ways. I'd be interested to learn how you came to realise this. It took me a long time, with much input from real friends and resources such as Dr C here
@@sturobertson6791 Thank you!! It took me decades, little by little. The behavior in my family is more noticeable and histrionic as an adult, when I was targeted more. As a child I observed the dysfunction but normalized it and tried to laugh about it. I really needed a therapist to categorize the behavior as a toxic pattern of narcissism, which didn’t happen until my 30’s!! Social media changed everything because the literature before classified it as rare or a vague social phenomenon. It’s clearly so common. Even my fourth therapist finally realizing its narcissism when the abuse escalated in both my family and marriage was not enough for me to believe it was real or serious. I needed discuss media experts like Dr Carter and Dr Ramani. Things got worse and I had to cut ties, I was in real physical danger by the end. I barely got out alive - away from highly educated covert, religious narcissists - mostly all centering around one bully parent.
Don’t forget this one… a narcissist has to move on in friendships, because their ways get exposed. They will always need new people, that can be manipulated. All lies have an expiration date. Even if you take it to the grave, you still have to answer for it.
All relationships require some work, even friendships. Narcs are not able to put in the work. My ex loved to claim that she had so many "friends" who knew me, but never had anyone to hang out with. It's tough to see red flags when someone says that they love you.
Narcs describe everyone they know as a friend, when most are acquaintances. And they will happily press any acquaintance into service. And they can never answer a straight, mundane question. They will also treat you like a step stool to "befriend" your friends independently of you - truly weird power moves.
Hi Amanda. Absolutely 👍 Yet we DO (at first) try to reason with them, because we believe in being reasonable! It feels nice when we learn to stop banging against that brick wall🙏
Today, I chose to refocus on who I want to be. Walked four miles, made a meatloaf, complimented a woman on her fitness goal, reached out to a young relative I have never met, in the case she might wish to chat about our family tree. Yep. That’s who I want to be. Of service.🙏
That turning point is so confusing. You think you're a team then suddenly turns out he is in a team with all these other people and I am the enemy and have been ever since
They don’t want to hear what you have to say about anything - it’s because of a number of reasons. They weren’t there, they didnt think of it first, they never experienced it, they have no clue of what your talking about, they never done that ect…. They don’t want to hear about anything that they have NO control over whatsoever.
True! My ex would pretend to be an expert about things he had no clue of which I actually had training and experience in. He did the same all the time and was good at it. Occasionally though, I’d notice someone just meeting him with a look in their eye like, ‘who IS this idiot’. He would later disparage those people. Wish I’d left him sooner.
Friendship require honesty, mutuality, non-judgemental approach, open communication, respect, loyalty, dignity, civility and vulnerability which is crucial for love to exist. Narcisists are unable and unwilling to keep real friendships. Thank you dr Carter ❤
Narcs do all those things. They just redefine the meaning of words to suit their current version of reality. Honesty = lying, loyalty = betrayal, civility = petulance, etc, etc
Capable of having a coterie of minions and fawns. Friendship? No way. Sometimes it looks like friendship from a distance but as you get closer, you see the transactional underbelly of it all. Covert ones are particularly good at creating the appearance of friendships, until someone doesn’t toe the line.
Yes! You explained it so well. This is what I’m noticing with my current partner. The way he talks about his “friends” and even how he treats them is gross - I’m only just seeing it. It’s weird how much everyone appears to stroke his ego and fawn. It’s so bizarre.
I had a 34-year friendship with a guy who thought he was superior to everybody in every way. He would also brag about how popular he was among his large group of friends. Later on, he was the center of a highly publicized court case that led a conviction of “negligent manslaughter” of a prominent person in his community. Despite all of the compelling evidence against him, he insisted that he was being framed due to his race. He never spent even a moment considering his significant role in the death of a human being. Over the years, his roster of friends just got smaller and smaller. Eventually, he began to tell me that I was the only friend he had remaining. Two years ago, he called and raged at me for 4 hours. He blamed me for all of his problems in life, and he also took credit for all of my achievements. I remained calm during his temper tantrum. His mask came off, and he just ended the phone call abruptly… thus losing his very last friend at that moment.
HAD FRIEND 3O YRS PLUS GOOGLED TRAITS HE WAS NARC MALIGNANT WENT 2 MY DOC 4 THE B S FROM YRS DR GAVE ME TIME OFF NEVER WENT BACK EXSPLAINS ALLTHERE MIND FKRY AFTER I FOND OUT BEEN ALMOST 4YRS LOVE MY LTC THE SIC DRAINED FEEL.B.EING ROUND THEM EDUCATE AN.NOCONTACT ALLWAYS GO WITH YOUR SPIDEY GUT FEELING
Yes, I used to do that with the main Narcissist in my life but it's just lost energy and saliva, because they don't care. There might be some artificial empathy from them if they need something from you and/or want to manipulate you. They also might weaponize those difficults of yours to gaslight you ("it's your fault if you are in trouble" or "you are exaggerating/too sensitive" and similar...), so I opted for not telling much - my experience.
They hate it when you say, Me too, because it takes the attention and pity off themselves. They have to have all the attention and focus. My ex used to hate it when he was talking on the phone to me and he would hear me doing dishes/multitasking. He would get angry because he thought I wasn't listening to him if I was doing something else too! I HAD to multitask in order to get my work done because he would keep me on the phone listening for one to two hours! I wasn't even allowed to comment or add to what he was saying. So he talked for hours about himself and his insight into Bible prophecy! He went to church only to teach others, never to learn, and would take over the Sunday school class. He talked my ear off at home too! He was grandiose, etc. I've been happily single for 35 years now! I love the peace and quiet. And I love spending time with my family.. 🩷💜💕
I was “friends” with a woman I worked with at IHOP for a few years. We had a lot of fun together going on hikes and whatnot and I thought she was a kind, compassionate person One night on a shift we had together I opened up to her about how I was being inappropriately touched and spoken to by a manager there and how upset I was about it. Her responses to everything were “no he didn’t” and “that didn’t happen” I kindly told her “it hurts my feelings that you’re telling me these things didn’t happen” That’s when her true colors came out. She put all of her effort and energy into bullying, physically assaulting me and trying to go on a smear campaign against me lol. Of course everyone saw she was being a nutbag and I’d only ever been kind to everyone at the restaurant so her attempts to ruin my reputation there were futile and only made her look worse Thankfully by that point I’d had plenty of experience dealing with people like her and it didn’t get to me. It made work more entertaining on a slow night lol. She hated that she couldn’t get under my skin and I kept being friendly to everyone around me
Something better! My friend and her daughter don’t like to make plans in case something better comes along! Will actually say, “ Well, I called 3 people first who were busy, so then I called you…”
I’m in a two-year relationship with an undiagnosed narcissist. I have wondered since day one, why he has no friends. He has acquaintances, but no friends. He frowns upon my friendships.
Nice one Fred. Your comment meant great sense for me. On this healing journey, I find myself being far less anxious, or on edge about 'being liked straight away' when I meet new people, as I'm more relaxed about letting a genuine friendship take time to develop. Plus, I think we become supertuned to red flags and to people's genuine kindness and authenticity. All the best Fred. Hope you are ok👍🙏
They’re in constant competition for scarce supply such as attention as a result of golden child status even if coming from trauma where they were parentified… this is a climate of limited resources emotionally speaking at the very best
My narcissistic spouse's "friend" circle has dwindled down to three people over the years. The three that are left, he doesn't even like. Behind their backs, he says horrible things about them. He just uses them to fill his momentary wants and needs. He's like that with family and co-workers as well. We are all disposable in his eyes.
Typical Narcissist! If you don't fill THEIR purpose, if you don't surrender to THEIR selfish demands, if you don't listen and agree with THEIR selfish endless rants, then you ARE disposable. It is only a matter of time before they dump you. They are heartless, malignant, Human Woodchippers! This is my mother: I've watched her form and destroy friendships for years. And, most, if not all, of these people were/are wonderful people that I also got to know. For years I couldn't understand why these friendships would dissolve, and my mother would form new friendships. It was a constant cycle where my mother would backstab these ex-friends in conversations. If I asked how a particular person or couple were, she would fly off the handle, providing obnoxious criticisms as an excuse to "dump" the friend(s). A few years back, I finally figured out that my mother was/is a Narcissist; I also figured out her constant stream of new friends and the discard/dump of old friends that didn't measure up according to her. She even had the nerve to viciously criticize 3 friends that had passed away (one was a terrific lady that I adored, the other 2 were very nice ladies that I always enjoyed). I was shocked and bewildered by my mother's extremely nasty comments about these lovely people (she said these awful things after the women passed away from varied illnesses). I was devastated by her behavior: I instantly realized that my mother had far more serious issues than I realized/understood. When she ran out of "good" friends, I became the full-time whipping post! Then I found Dr. Carter. Wow, I was amazed at how he would describe my mother to a "T"! I'm sorry about this long-winded rant. I'll end with, YES, my mother is a Human Woodchipper, and I stay as far away from her as humanly possible.
Narc friend dropped me like a hot potato after she learned that I knew what she was all about, then accused me of gaslighting her and playing the victim. Crazy-making! Shoulda trusted my gut from day 1
Yes. "Fair weather friends" I had one for fifty years, one day, by chance, my eyes were opended to the truth. Boy was I shocked! Ok then. We must get over it, and move on...........but it still hurts when this happens...
My male relative's friends are really just his acquaintences. They don't know him. He's always on his best behavior in front of them, and he doesn't spent too much time around them each time. It is too taxing on him to be nice and to keep his opinions to himself, so he can only bear short periods of exposure to his "friends" to play nice. You can't be friends with someone you don't know, and he makes sure they Don't know him. He puts on a nice act in front of them. Very shallow.
I was about 12yo when I naively asked my narc mom "don't you have any friends?" I asked the question because she had once again been VERY angrily complaining in a long-winded rant about someone who I thought was her "friend." This had been a recurring pattern with ALL of mom's "friends," first seeming besties, then fierce anger, hate, criticism, discard. She asked what I meant by the question. I said, "you know, like someone you're not angry with, someone you don't complain about, someone you really like?" In my 12yo mind I thought, of course there are always people we don't like, but eventually we find a few people we click with, RIGHT? But mom just seemed perplexed by my question and never gave me an answer. And I never forgot the question, and never forgot that she didn't answer it. I'm now in my late 60s, mom is 90 and she STILL doesn't have any friends. 🙄
My mom has seven brothers with seven different sister in laws. I asked "did ya like ANY of them?" Her self righteous narcissistic response was an assertion that none of them were "her"; she truly believes she's morally superior to EVERYONE. such a lonely, pathetic and delusional creature. These people are pure evil as far as I'm concerned.
You were a very astute 12 year old! In my experience Narcissists stonewall when you ask a question or make observations that they feel threaten their false self.
@@JH-td4mn It was a genuinely innocent question, but afterwards I was shocked at my own boldness. My mom was very unpredictable, so she was just as likely to slap me for asking a confrontational question. Somehow I dodged a bullet that time. 🫣
I think that at some point the artificial image of themselves they project as their real self slips with anyone they spend a great deal of time with. Then the "friends" get a peek at the man behind the mirror and abandon ship. Or, the narc discards them and moves on to greener pastures.
Or the friend does something ‘unforgivable’ like dare to disagree with the narc and then is discarded and publicly scorned. My mother did this all the time. She discarded her only remaining longterm friend because she paid too much attention to her cat. My mother was jealous of this old, loyal friend’s cat. Mom was impossible to have a relationship with.
I stayed for several reasons, but the main reason was I was essentially an orphan with no support system and two children. The narcissist had a PhD, power position and sway within the legal system and over many in the community, family and so called friends and let’s not forget within the church, because his father was a METHODIST MINISTER … most unkind, most unloving and mean family ( the mother was the narcissist).
I mourn the loss of my BFF. She was the strongest person I know and she would end her day with a prayer over whoever was on her mind and whatever she was grateful for and for everyone to read. She left too early. Real friends are here but when you've been burned it is a bit tricky to know who to trust. The best rule is give and lift others.
@@amandaliverpool3374 Yes, she was real. It is hard to find them. It was a family we were close to and the three of them are all gone now but we have the memories of what a real friendship was and hope to find another.
I was recently cut off from sibling for asking for pictures of their new home because I was excited to see. She accused me of being jealous & wanting her to fall on her face. Since this has happened I’ve noticed that the past three years any woman that’s wanted to be her friend, she has created these false stories that she has made up in her head thinking they are jealous & they are jealous of her and wanting her to fall on her face. The thing about conflicts is that you see things clearly sometimes that you didn’t before. God reveals things sometimes to us in difficult ways. But her moving I believe is a blessing & protection from the Lord. She hasn’t bothered me, but I didn’t know I bothered her.
Assuming you may be on this Channel for a reason is one of your parents narcissistic? Once we get away from that type of abuse you don’t trust anyone. I let go EVERYONE because you don’t know WHO is the enabling flying monkey. They are everywhere. I am more secretive of my dealings post narc awareness. My sister has her own view of whatever so I let her go in sharing a lot of my business or moves. It prob gets discussed with our mother but anyways live in peace and if you all were good she’ll come around as she heals and gets a grasp on boundaries.
I've known this for a while about my narc brother and his wife. No one is good enough for them. And they trust no one. Thank goodness i have no contact with them.
She had real friends. People who were friends to her. Generous, inquisitive, understanding, etc. She could reciprocate (or at least look like she could) for awhile. Then came reality, and they were gone.
@aaronkwolfe Hi Aaron. Likewise. My nex's interaction with friends was truly confusing to watch, she'd insult all behind their backs, but kept the worst insults for my friends. Any male friend was 'a playa", with whom I only wanted friendship for the things 'playas do', and I wouldn't dare write here how she would describe my female friends. I'm free of that craziness now. All the best 🙏
@@sturobertson6791 Very two faced. I have had a friend like that and she was equally stubborn in her convictions about other people. And yes, even the trash talking about my friends. At first I tried to ignore it, then tried to address it, but she really did not take in any diffrent sounds. So exhausting. I have noticed that my best friends nowadays never talk badly about mutual friends. It's freeing. If I can, I don't ever want to be close to a negative person again. 😅
@Zeepjeliefs Hi Zeep. Thanks for your reply. They talk badly about your friends to try to isolate you, bc they want you to give them and only them all your attention. They. Do the same with your children and siblings. I completely agree when you say your best friends never talk badly about mutual friends. We become super tuned to recognise positive, healthy people, and avoid the negative ones who gossip drama.
As a child I never really comprehended just how lonely I was. My Dad was Mr Popularity, or at least he thought so. The important person at work, the important person at the sailing club. Yet the only person we saw with any regularity was his mum, every second year for Christmas. To this day my parents bustle around going to bowling club and sailing club and yet last I knew my dad still thought of himself as Mr Popularity, who never actually has any friends. I would feel sorry for my mum but she's as shallow and superficial as he is.
The person I had kids with used them to control me. He had no friends so he tried to turn our youngest into his friend. Not my friend; when I wanted time with him something disastrous would happen. He smeared me to the other kids, making it clear he is their only parent. Don’t tell, but mommy doesn’t love you…very abusive to their hearts and heads.
A recent video from Dr. C was about the 4 levels of communication, it has a lot of helpful tips, including for the work situation, I really appreciated and recommend.
When my ex narcs mother passed away, I was surprised to see not one person from his friend group of many years attended. I thought it was odd, but didn't say anything of course. It was about a year later that I realized he's a narcissist & it then made sense. These are friends that get together a few times a year for birthdays & such, but it's clear that there's no deep connection there like I had thought there was.
All things you said resonated for me Dr C. I wanted to share a quote that I recently read "Only look down on other people if you are going to bring them up". English is not my first language but this made me think of team healthy. It's also an ingredient for true friendship, to me. True friends want to build you up, are happy for your succes and you can be vulnerable with them, back and forth.
We’ve known a family for 60+ years that was “like” family. When our mother passed in June last year, not ONE of them came to the services, sent a memorial, a card, a text, a phone call or anything. The parents of that family were some of my parents’ best friends. I have decided that I will still be cordial to them, but that’s it. Is that wrong of me?
I dontthink itswrong of you. You can be cordial, polite, maybe hear and learn about why they didn't do those things. Trust your gut to tell you if they represent healthy continued friendship, or, as you say, just being cordial.
They were your parent's best friends and those two have passed on already, correct? Is your father still alive? It is good to be civil, true. If you didn't hear from them you could have maybe missed a card or a call. If they are obviously trying to avoid this you shouldn't feel you have to inquire to account for it. I'm sorry you are hurting, don't put yourself in unnecessary pain. 🌹🫂
The fact that I had to suffer for around four years just because I chose solitude and to go my own way shows how one-directional my friendship was. If obeying is a requisite for peace then that is not friendship, not mutuality, and not respectful. I got the see the truth and their face of deception.
Take care, be yourself, don't allow yourself to be hoovered back. Support available here on TH if needed. Best of luck and best wishes. You are worth it and always have been👍
@@sturobertson6791 When I leave my homestead here in Oklahoma I'm headed to Eastern TN. Never will I see him again. 13 yrs is enough. I have a son that lives there. Thanks for your words. Pamela of SE Oklahoma
@Noname-xm2lj Hi noname. I hear in your words you have had enough. Well done, you are doing a brave thing, and the right thing. I don't know your story or your reasons, but this is your time to (re) discover your goodness, your beliefs, values, and how you deserve to be treated. Far better to be on your own than with the wrong person. If it hasn't got better in 13 years, likely it never will.i think you already have, but may I gently suggest keep on learning about self care. It's not trivial, or easy, or overnight, but learning self care skills will help you be the best version of yourself, and good, decent, genuine people WILL come into your life...I wish you all the best🙏🫂
I was just having this conversation with loved ones the other day about what was actually going on with a narcissist and the revolving door of their "friendships." The coverts are so good at appearing normal I feel bad for those that fall into their webs because it can go on for quite a while. Thanks for this, Dr. C, you make the world better with your expertise. (PS Gus looks snug on his rug back there. Give him a pet from all of us out here!)
With narcs it's all about the appearance not the substance... shallow self centered superficial individuals. Many of them are great actors and have expertly crafted public masks.
My narcissistic mother stated many times "I don't need friends. I'm alone wolf and that was find by me." Whenever she made a friend it didn't last long. They just stop calling or coming around.
My ex seemed to hate people, overall, but tolerated them when they had something he needed or wanted 🤦🏻♀️ Case-in-point: He'd schmooze our customers to make a sale but insult them behind their back to me. It was awful. I truly love people and his constant insults and put downs weren't necessary~ He had about 2 friends he'd fish with about once a year, but he said they never talked. Now I know why me loving fishing (a prerequisite of us getting engaged 😳) was sooooooo important to him! He had nobody else to go with him all the time and he hated to be alone. 😅
I realized that my "friend" of many years had no problems making digs at me and being horribly rude at times. When I tried to talk about it, he was always "too busy." I realized that I wasn't really a friend, just another prop in his life to make himself look popular at parties or dinners out. I finally told him I was done.
Off topic. A couple of weeks ago I asked for your prayers because I might have cancer. Yesterday I found out that I do have it but it's early and treatable. Please keep praying
Darlene, I prayed right away, then kept a tab open of your profile to remind me to continue. THANK YOU for the update. Rejoicing with you on it being treatable.
..."even in the midsts of differences." I suspect these differences are a frequent flashpoint in a relationship where the friend asks to understand but the narcisist undermines, extinguishes and controls the differences.
Oh my, this video is definitely for me!. I realized, although I kinda knew deep inside, that a "friend" of 38 years is the type of person you described in this video. As heartbreaking as it is/was, I ended our "friendship" a few months ago when I realized our "friendship" was one-sided and a lie 😢.
When I would tell my narc sis about my kind friends, and the gratitude I felt for the kind gestures they extended to me, she seemed jealous. Sometimes she wanted to meet them so she could also be the receipient of their kindness. Once I was saying I'd be dropping my kid off at a friend's house for babysitting, and sis piped up with, "ooh, ask him if he'd babysit for me too." I had an immediate internal reaction of "hey, don't try to use my friends; get your own friends." Then I realized she didn't have any close friends. She criticized and found fault with everybody she knew.
Dr. Phil has said that with the cultural sway toward victimization and narcissistic traits that giving "the benefit of the doubt" has become outmoded. Sad to say, I agree with him. Trust your instincts and believe what people show you!! 💜🐾
Yes, understanding this has caused me a lot of rumination. I think that it is okay to show understanding by describing what happened to you - but after the person who is venting has had their time to tell their story and you have listened and offered comfort, and maybe even some good advice if you have any that works well. The narc is not interested in what happened to them, just in seizing the opportunity to dominate the conversation by showing who is the bigger victim. They 'win' - because they dominate the conversation, it seems.
Yes this is true but care must be taken to not talk over the other person. Normal people say "me too, i understand, go on". Narcs say "me too....." as they cut you off and tell you every detail of their story from the past and then walk way or change the subject. This is an important learning experience for autistic people in particular.
I really feel like WHY BOTHER with them - if they were "friends" just move on. They might look down on me - that is on them - but I am DISAPPOINTED IN THEM
Dr. C you have help me soooo much! Im the scapegoat and 26yrs currently married to my malignant/covert narc so basically narcs all over. I used to call my husband my friend in the beginning of our marriage. I was so wrong about that....I wish you were my family member Dr. C...I would have gravitated toward you and your kindness and genuine respect! Its pouring out of you and precious Gus❤
My narc moms friends seem scapegoat trained previously to her, so they're super easy to keep in their lanes. She goes above and beyond to help them, and even strangers, everyday and in crises, so they think they've struck gold. The altruism is genius. When something cruel is sensed, and it actually gets past their denial barrier, the guilt of hurting someone so kind, self-sacrificing and humble overtakes, whether she inflicts or not. These are amazing people too. Caring and often brilliant and talented. One amazing woman I'd become close to, I tried to get support from when I had my horrific narc awakening . I painfully realized she is also a scapegoat, with even more to lose, caring for her elderly mother and dependent on the living situation for health reasons. I eventually backed off and just have to appreciate still having her friendship. I only hope she doesn't have to deal with scary realizations after her mom is gone. I've heard that can be even worse, and that's hard to imagine. (My dad died 15 years ago and I'm starting to see scapegoat traits, and that's hard enough to swallow)
Had a few friends over the years. Once they realized I had something going for myself, that they did not have going, they did not want to be my friend anymore. Like that could not just be happy for me.
Watching this video AGAIN, and after watching MANY other videos: friends are friends as such, for who they are, as they are, not for what they can give or for what they can do.
Thanks to Dr C for helping us all to think about what friendship means. Gratitude and appreciation for friends helps us stay healthy. My nex made friends instantly, tho the friendships usually turned out to be 'easily made, easily broken', often with contempt and insults for the discarded friend.
One big hint that a person is a narcissist who is saying nasty things about you behind your back, is if they are saying nasty things about other people to you. I once asked a narcissist, after he spent a half hour putting down one of his male friends to me..."Do you really think I don't know you say awful things about me behind my back too?" Then I almost laughed at the honest expression of surprise on his face. Of course he had been, and now he knew that I knew. Although it took me years to figure out I was being used as a taxi and a bank by him, I am happy to say I am no longer friends with this man.
Hello Dr C and Team Healthy! The 2 ingredients that I hear Dr C talking about is what made me feel alone in my friendships. They weren't interested in me. I call them, "Can you do me a favor?" friendships. I did the work; they reaped the benefits. When I stopped doing favors for them and worked in my own life, they got very quiet. That's because, their voice, support and compassion were never there to begin with! What a revelation! I am now a part of a womans, faith-based community. We share our stories and TRULY support each other. We're not perfect. We just help each other the best we can and I'm learning to allow them into that support, a support that I'm not very familiar with receiving. I hope the best for all of you!! I know how difficult it is to be in relationships where you're not seen or heard.
Oh my god…oh my god. This is just the best session. You have hit the nail on the head and described my narc exactly.he has an unnatural need for positive feedback. He said to me ‘I think you are ignoring me and I want to you come to my front door and explain yourself . Well I just walked on.. nothing there for me these sessions really help me to remain wise and true to myself. Thank you form the bottom of my heart. Judy from uk’ .
I totally started seeing the things you talked about in my relationship , Especially when i asked him to go make some other friends rather than trying to Hang out with me all the time which was quiet torturous after a while , i had to space myself quite a bit , just to get some peace , then i figured out he didn't want to make friends at all , he wanted to just torture me !!!!!
I Have known at least 5 narcissists, three women I have been close to, and a couple of male work colleagues, all of them had no Friends, they would talk about people as close Friends but it was really just Acquaintances , one of the guys I worked with talked about how close he was to another guy and that they met up all the time and confided in each other, but when I saw this Friend in the Town I mentioned him and he said " No I haven't seen him for months "
The only friends my sister’s ever had, were those who they would use and then dispose of. It made my skin crawled to see them doing it, and it also makes sense why they constantly sabotaged mine with smear campaigns. One sister is a grandiose narcissist and the other one is a sadistic narcissist. All the narcissist I’ve known always say they are a great friend, but when their masks falls, they snap and the only person who thinks they are a great friend, is themselves.
My ex narc always called me his best friend. After some time, when his mask began to slip, I experienced a few of his unexpected rages. I was totally shocked and blown away at how the most menial comments or events would set him off. I began to wonder how he would treat someone he considered an enemy if this is how you treated your "best friend?" Thank God we're no longer together. I discovered he was a narc years after we split. Thank you Dr. C for educating and supporting us in our healing journey!
That second example that you used around the 3:35 mark, could very well be a narcissist. My narcissistic ex gf would hate it with a passion when she was talking about an acquaintance, coworker, or family member and I would essentially play devils advocate by suggesting the view or mindset of the other person. These assumptions particularly paired with labels can be very dangerous
Although most narcs I know do not have friends. What’s puzzling is I know 3 of them that have long time friends that seem normal and friends for years. How is that?
This confuses me too but I think many people really don’t have intimate, reciprocal relationships. Hallmark greeting card friendships-mutual cheerleading-propping up each others’ image.
My parent's oldest child has exactly one "friend". She has managed to alienate everyone in her life with her sabotage, gaslighting and undermining, but this sweet young lady has stuck it out with her since college. I questioned why every time my parents' child spoke of her "friend", it was to disparage some aspect of life, whether it was her attachment to her dog, her mental health issues, her career, her weight gain, etc, and she didn't have a good answer. I've been no contact with that creature my parents created for over 10 years now, so I don't know whether or not this "friend" has wised up, as the rest of the world has.
Question for Dr C. I saw another team healthy member said something like this too: how wary should we be about narcissistic psychologists and especially the more severely narcissistic ones?
Yes I saw that question! Unfortunately there are alot of therapists not trained in narcissism although alot of them appear to be narcissistic. Careful choice is needed when finding a suitable therapist!
@@amandaliverpool3374 You have to be very discerning and careful when choosing a therapist, for sure! Some are actually narcissists themselves, while others don't know about/understand narcissism, and can actually cause more harm than good. I have unfortunately had several really bad mental health providers in my life (including psychiatrists), and thankfully after a while I caught on to what was happening, and I fired them! It is hard to recover from, though, when the one who is supposed to care about you and help you ends up hurting you.
Hey Amanda yes I guess I want to know how dangerous they are too like the other person on the chat. The idea of psych skills and training plus narcissism is scary.
@@caroleminke6116 i did have a bad experience once. It's such a vulnerable space we need to be so careful. Currently I'm trying to figure out my route to detach from a psychologist who's showing narc and somewhat sociopathic traits..
Thank you For.Carter . I am the one with the adopted 36 year old son. Adopted him when he was young. He's done nothing but get worse. You replied to me once before and I just wanted to let you know that your segment on anger was really helpful. I feel really frustrated. It's not like a couple dating or a married couple. We can't get away from him. He won't hold a real job, never has. Just hangs around and does just about everything you have ever mentioned.! Just wanted to give you a heart felt thank you. (I've never heard you say that they very rarely wash ) Is this so with other narcissist??
The not washing part is not something with all narcissists. But it is both passive aggressive (I won't fit in with everyone else's norms), and it also is his way of saying "I quit." That's the insecurity in him. He feels incapable of being normal. My heart goes out to you.
Now with social media, it is so easy to believe what you see - this perfect home, spouse etc.. you just have to roll your eyes back because you know how they are in real life.
Thank you for that. Ive just realized that my lovely friend that gave me so much attention and nice gestures starts to criticize me loud when with the group and sends me completely conflict signals and making a lot of mass in my had. I feel like flying down. Just need to cool down this relationship but cannot cut totally due to work. But I already know he will discard me soon and find new best friend just on my eyes. Painful to know so to be used not having a real affection never
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Narcissist expects respect after disrespecting you.
Yup. Such tools.
They disrespect you like you’ve never been disrespected before and are completely stunned when the lack of respect is a mutual feeling. It’s wild.
💯%
@@bbmm9541
Exactly. They are the most stupid, mean people.
My parents
“They want to LOOK good, as opposed to BEING good.”🎯
Ahh. Thank you so much for expressing my exact thoughts....I think k your phrase kinda sums up everything about them.
And, IMHO, your phrase describes completely the current government here in the UK.
I've thought for a long time now that the reason they still have (at least some) support in the UK population is that so many people CAN'T see what you said. You need to have a certain amount of emotional growth and maturity, and sadly, it seems, many people don't.
Thanks so much, and all the best👍🙏
Even if you dress up garbage in a black tux and tie bag, it still's gonna stink!
You are so right Karen….they want to “look” good and it would be easier to be good. They will tell you that they are good while they are sabotaging you behind your back!
They only talk to people when they want something. Period. They have no interest in building bonds and maintaining them
If you try to have a conversation online or on the phone it's the same, you do all the talking or "messaging". "Are you there"? (How many times did we type that?)
Narcissis expect you to be loyal to them but they are not loyal to you and at the same time they don't trust anyone.
Victims have a lot of trouble trusting too. Well when it was a parent anyway.
@@eleanorrae7378 And that is natural because parents should be the first and foremost we should be able to trust. Siblings too. But genetic links are the wild cards that we have no control over. I felt so isolated before the internet. Now we can share and support.
Lol
My husband of 13 years discarded me and our kids like trash. We met when he had nothing, we built everything together then a new shiny thing came by he blamed me for not being more successful and wealthier as he thinks he should be, he said our kids are ungrateful and he could do better with new kids . I was beyond heartbroken. I never thought I could ever be ok again. Thank God for taking me out of what I didn’t think I needed to get out of.
God will judge such a person, sad and sorry to hear you had to go through this, Nextup ..
My biological father who is a Malignant Narcissist truly never was a friend even to the people who were kindest to him. I remember him betraying his friendships as he was secertly envious and jealous. It taught me the value of loyalty and love
Same here 😢 he was anti-love personified ❤ a real killjoy
Hi Douaa. Good for you👍 I agree about learning the value of loyalty and love🙏
This is so true for so many. Including myself
Thank you for saying this. I'm worried my nieces will grow up to be like their father. I'm happy to hear you have learned how not to be instead of how to be. It gives me hope for those little girls! ❤
I'm so glad it sent you in the right direction. Some choose the other road after your experience.
Narcissists don't have real friendships because...
1. they can't be vulnerable
2. they can't trust you
3. they can't see you
4. they don't care about you
5. you are just an object with a function
6. you are just a transaction
7. they are just a taker
8. they don't know what love is about
9. their communication is manipulation
1. Narcs are not able to attach to people because this would mean to be vulnerable themselves and being vulnerable is a threat for them for it means loosing control and power over you.
2. They see life as a competition where nobody is to be trusted. They have to win under all circumstances.
3.They are not able to see you for they are highly self-absorbed and not interested in you as a separated person.
4. They can not care about you for they have no empathy and in fact they can not even care about themselves for they only need "their own satisfaction in every moment", which is an addiction.
5. You are just a "toy tool" to be (ab)used for gaining their daily supply, regulating their emotions, doing services for them etc.
6. Their only desire is, "How useful will you be for me?" And their demand is, "You owe me!" When you are not useful anymore, you will be discarded.
7. They take everything from you without giving and so there is no equal and mutual energy flowing.
8. They are the destroyer of love for they are investing in all kind of negative feelings (anger, jalousy, hate, revenge etc.).
9. A healthy communication is not possible for they are only able to manipulate you in order to get what they want from you.
Mic drop!
Eerily so
@@well_weathered Why? I mean I just wonder what "drop mic" means???
@@SurvivingNarcissism Dr Carter, can you explain what "mic drop" means? This is puzzeling me...🤔
@@roxymovie3938 Mic drop 🎤 means great job. 💥
You do good at understanding the dynamic.
My mother was a narcissist and had loads of friends. She could be very entertaining and make people laugh. She could also be generous and hospitable.
But there was one friend (a lifelong friend) who had the guts to confront her about the way she treated me. That friend was treated abominably.
Are you sure they were real friends thou, or more like people who massaged her EGO. They are called: flying monkeys
My mother was the same, but no one called her out on her treatment of me as a child.
As long as they play along with the mask, they'll fine. My mom hated how my grandma called her out on how she treated me. In their mind, their reality is true, so they actually feel betrayed when ppl give them a reality check.
Agree with you, Patricia. 'Sounds as if mother turned on her true friend
My mom’s friends have seen hints of it towards me, but look the other way. Most was behind closed doors, so they didn’t see it. But my absence at the thanksgiving dinner speaks volumes.
My narc mom seemed to have so many friends to me as a child. As an adult I realize it’s a gossip circle of on/off codependent connections in our town’s faith community, one-upmanship, lying publicly for status, throwing each other under the bus, showing off, and devalue/discard cycles. The wealthy friends and pets are treated better than relatives. 0:00
That’s my mom too, lol. Looking back, some of her “friends” as people were actually healthy. But the relationships my mom had with those people were always superficial, so I guess even healthy people can be naive or ignorant to toxicity
@@MBarberfan4life Yes! The healthier ones are either used by narc mom for pity or to manipulate. They buy all the lies. The predatory types are used to social climb!
My mom’s toxic friends now call themselves FUFI - F’d Up Families Inc. they are referring to their own families of origin with so much fighting. It was a helpful clue once I woke up!
Well said. This is a great summary of many of their crazy ways. I'd be interested to learn how you came to realise this. It took me a long time, with much input from real friends and resources such as Dr C here
@@sturobertson6791 Thank you!! It took me decades, little by little. The behavior in my family is more noticeable and histrionic as an adult, when I was targeted more. As a child I observed the dysfunction but normalized it and tried to laugh about it.
I really needed a therapist to categorize the behavior as a toxic pattern of narcissism, which didn’t happen until my 30’s!! Social media changed everything because the literature before classified it as rare or a vague social phenomenon. It’s clearly so common. Even my fourth therapist finally realizing its narcissism when the abuse escalated in both my family and marriage was not enough for me to believe it was real or serious.
I needed discuss media experts like Dr Carter and Dr Ramani. Things got worse and I had to cut ties, I was in real physical danger by the end. I barely got out alive - away from highly educated covert, religious narcissists - mostly all centering around one bully parent.
Don’t forget this one… a narcissist has to move on in friendships, because their ways get exposed. They will always need new people, that can be manipulated. All lies have an expiration date.
Even if you take it to the grave, you still have to answer for it.
HELL YES AN I WANT FRONT ROW SEATS FOR THERE😂😢😮😅😊JUDGEMENT DAY
@@RandyDecious me too… I’ll bring the popcorn!!!
@@Tokolos sorry to hear that… it took me 17 years to figure it out.
Who can be manipulated now though? It’s everyone.
@@MarianMurphy-rz8ej become, what you hate…
Because the relationship never can be genuine.
All relationships require some work, even friendships. Narcs are not able to put in the work. My ex loved to claim that she had so many "friends" who knew me, but never had anyone to hang out with. It's tough to see red flags when someone says that they love you.
Narcs describe everyone they know as a friend, when most are acquaintances. And they will happily press any acquaintance into service. And they can never answer a straight, mundane question. They will also treat you like a step stool to "befriend" your friends independently of you - truly weird power moves.
There is no reasoning with someone will argue and not listen. It's like banging your head against a brick wall!
Hi Amanda. Absolutely 👍
Yet we DO (at first) try to reason with them, because we believe in being reasonable!
It feels nice when we learn to stop banging against that brick wall🙏
@sturobertson6791 Hi Stu. Yes and alot less frustrating. We can only stay focused to save our sanity 🙏
Head banging reminds me of a crazy dancing style 😁 But it's a good analogy to put it, Amanda ❣
@roxymovie3938 A crazy dance would be more fun roxy 🤣
@@amandaliverpool3374 For sure 🤣🤣
Today, I chose to refocus on who I want to be. Walked four miles, made a meatloaf, complimented a woman on her fitness goal, reached out to a young relative I have never met, in the case she might wish to chat about our family tree. Yep. That’s who I want to be. Of service.🙏
That turning point is so confusing. You think you're a team then suddenly turns out he is in a team with all these other people and I am the enemy and have been ever since
You never expect it. You never knew how horribly you were undermined.
They don’t want to hear what you have to say about anything - it’s because of a number of reasons. They weren’t there, they didnt think of it first, they never experienced it, they have no clue of what your talking about, they never done that ect…. They don’t want to hear about anything that they have NO control over whatsoever.
True! My ex would pretend to be an expert about things he had no clue of which I actually had training and experience in. He did the same all the time and was good at it. Occasionally though, I’d notice someone just meeting him with a look in their eye like, ‘who IS this idiot’. He would later disparage those people. Wish I’d left him sooner.
Birds of the same feather....flock together!
Friendship require honesty, mutuality, non-judgemental approach, open communication, respect, loyalty, dignity, civility and vulnerability which is crucial for love to exist. Narcisists are unable and unwilling to keep real friendships. Thank you dr Carter ❤
Well said👍
Very well stated 👏
Amen!!
Narcs do all those things. They just redefine the meaning of words to suit their current version of reality. Honesty = lying, loyalty = betrayal, civility = petulance, etc, etc
Because they see others as tools to use and abuse!
Capable of having a coterie of minions and fawns. Friendship? No way. Sometimes it looks like friendship from a distance but as you get closer, you see the transactional underbelly of it all. Covert ones are particularly good at creating the appearance of friendships, until someone doesn’t toe the line.
Yes! You explained it so well. This is what I’m noticing with my current partner. The way he talks about his “friends” and even how he treats them is gross - I’m only just seeing it. It’s weird how much everyone appears to stroke his ego and fawn. It’s so bizarre.
You have to be real to have real.
🎯
Narcissists are a lie period
Well said Fred. 👍
Very wise, Fred 👏👏👏
Right on!
Narcissists treat people for transactional purpose only.
No emotional connection at all, thus, no friendship at all.
I had a 34-year friendship with a guy who thought he was superior to everybody in every way. He would also brag about how popular he was among his large group of friends. Later on, he was the center of a highly publicized court case that led a conviction of “negligent manslaughter” of a prominent person in his community. Despite all of the compelling evidence against him, he insisted that he was being framed due to his race. He never spent even a moment considering his significant role in the death of a human being. Over the years, his roster of friends just got smaller and smaller. Eventually, he began to tell me that I was the only friend he had remaining. Two years ago, he called and raged at me for 4 hours. He blamed me for all of his problems in life, and he also took credit for all of my achievements. I remained calm during his temper tantrum. His mask came off, and he just ended the phone call abruptly… thus losing his very last friend at that moment.
Wow 😮 it’s crazy how they act! I have seen this too!
Thanks for sharing your tutelary tale.
HAD FRIEND 3O YRS PLUS GOOGLED TRAITS HE WAS NARC MALIGNANT WENT 2 MY DOC 4 THE B S FROM YRS DR GAVE ME TIME OFF NEVER WENT BACK EXSPLAINS ALLTHERE MIND FKRY AFTER I FOND OUT BEEN ALMOST 4YRS LOVE MY LTC THE SIC DRAINED FEEL.B.EING ROUND THEM EDUCATE AN.NOCONTACT ALLWAYS GO WITH YOUR SPIDEY GUT FEELING
Only a narc. will saw off the tree branch he/she is sitting on. They're self destructive individuals and they must take someone else with them...
Why did you listen for four hours?! I would have been done in four minutes!
Occasionally, I have to say "me too" to the narcissist - as a reminder that they are NOT the only ones who may be experiencing a difficulty.
Yes, I used to do that with the main Narcissist in my life but it's just lost energy and saliva, because they don't care. There might be some artificial empathy from them if they need something from you and/or want to manipulate you. They also might weaponize those difficults of yours to gaslight you ("it's your fault if you are in trouble" or "you are exaggerating/too sensitive" and similar...), so I opted for not telling much - my experience.
Yes
They hate it when you say, Me too, because it takes the attention and pity off themselves. They have to have all the attention and focus.
My ex used to hate it when he was talking on the phone to me and he would hear me doing dishes/multitasking. He would get angry because he thought I wasn't listening to him if I was doing something else too! I HAD to multitask in order to get my work done because he would keep me on the phone listening for one to two hours! I wasn't even allowed to comment or add to what he was saying. So he talked for hours about himself and his insight into Bible prophecy! He went to church only to teach others, never to learn, and would take over the Sunday school class. He talked my ear off at home too! He was grandiose, etc. I've been happily single for 35 years now! I love the peace and quiet. And I love spending time with my family..
🩷💜💕
I was “friends” with a woman I worked with at IHOP for a few years. We had a lot of fun together going on hikes and whatnot and I thought she was a kind, compassionate person
One night on a shift we had together I opened up to her about how I was being inappropriately touched and spoken to by a manager there and how upset I was about it. Her responses to everything were “no he didn’t” and “that didn’t happen”
I kindly told her “it hurts my feelings that you’re telling me these things didn’t happen”
That’s when her true colors came out. She put all of her effort and energy into bullying, physically assaulting me and trying to go on a smear campaign against me lol. Of course everyone saw she was being a nutbag and I’d only ever been kind to everyone at the restaurant so her attempts to ruin my reputation there were futile and only made her look worse
Thankfully by that point I’d had plenty of experience dealing with people like her and it didn’t get to me. It made work more entertaining on a slow night lol. She hated that she couldn’t get under my skin and I kept being friendly to everyone around me
Something better! My friend and her daughter don’t like to make plans in case something better comes along! Will actually say, “ Well, I called 3 people first who were busy, so then I called you…”
Sadly is an evil personality disorder and thankfully love ourselves is the path to exit the long term trauma that persists… we are worthy!
The byproduct of narcissistic hindsight is wisdom and true happiness.
To the narcissist friendships are all about upholding them (the narc).
I’m in a two-year relationship with an undiagnosed narcissist. I have wondered since day one, why he has no friends. He has acquaintances, but no friends. He frowns upon my friendships.
Narcissist are in hurry, in hurry they come in hurry they go, we in team healthy are in no hurry because friendship and love take time to develop.
Nice one Fred. Your comment meant great sense for me. On this healing journey, I find myself being far less anxious, or on edge about 'being liked straight away' when I meet new people, as I'm more relaxed about letting a genuine friendship take time to develop.
Plus, I think we become supertuned to red flags and to people's genuine kindness and authenticity.
All the best Fred. Hope you are ok👍🙏
@@sturobertson6791 thank you 🙏👍!
good comment
Because they see others for their weaknesses instead of as blessings?
They’re in constant competition for scarce supply such as attention as a result of golden child status even if coming from trauma where they were parentified… this is a climate of limited resources emotionally speaking at the very best
My narcissistic spouse's "friend" circle has dwindled down to three people over the years. The three that are left, he doesn't even like. Behind their backs, he says horrible things about them. He just uses them to fill his momentary wants and needs. He's like that with family and co-workers as well. We are all disposable in his eyes.
Typical Narcissist! If you don't fill THEIR purpose, if you don't surrender to THEIR selfish demands, if you don't listen and agree with THEIR selfish endless rants, then you ARE disposable. It is only a matter of time before they dump you. They are heartless, malignant, Human Woodchippers! This is my mother: I've watched her form and destroy friendships for years. And, most, if not all, of these people were/are wonderful people that I also got to know. For years I couldn't understand why these friendships would dissolve, and my mother would form new friendships. It was a constant cycle where my mother would backstab these ex-friends in conversations. If I asked how a particular person or couple were, she would fly off the handle, providing obnoxious criticisms as an excuse to "dump" the friend(s). A few years back, I finally figured out that my mother was/is a Narcissist; I also figured out her constant stream of new friends and the discard/dump of old friends that didn't measure up according to her. She even had the nerve to viciously criticize 3 friends that had passed away (one was a terrific lady that I adored, the other 2 were very nice ladies that I always enjoyed). I was shocked and bewildered by my mother's extremely nasty comments about these lovely people (she said these awful things after the women passed away from varied illnesses). I was devastated by her behavior: I instantly realized that my mother had far more serious issues than I realized/understood. When she ran out of "good" friends, I became the full-time whipping post! Then I found Dr. Carter. Wow, I was amazed at how he would describe my mother to a "T"! I'm sorry about this long-winded rant. I'll end with, YES, my mother is a Human Woodchipper, and I stay as far away from her as humanly possible.
Narc friend dropped me like a hot potato after she learned that I knew what she was all about, then accused me of gaslighting her and playing the victim. Crazy-making! Shoulda trusted my gut from day 1
Yes. "Fair weather friends" I had one for fifty years, one day, by chance, my eyes were opended to the truth. Boy was I shocked! Ok then. We must get over it, and move on...........but it still hurts when this happens...
That person was your imperfect friend for 50 years. Maybe reframe it.
My male relative's friends are really just his acquaintences. They don't know him. He's always on his best behavior in front of them, and he doesn't spent too much time around them each time. It is too taxing on him to be nice and to keep his opinions to himself, so he can only bear short periods of exposure to his "friends" to play nice. You can't be friends with someone you don't know, and he makes sure they Don't know him. He puts on a nice act in front of them. Very shallow.
I was about 12yo when I naively asked my narc mom "don't you have any friends?" I asked the question because she had once again been VERY angrily complaining in a long-winded rant about someone who I thought was her "friend." This had been a recurring pattern with ALL of mom's "friends," first seeming besties, then fierce anger, hate, criticism, discard. She asked what I meant by the question. I said, "you know, like someone you're not angry with, someone you don't complain about, someone you really like?" In my 12yo mind I thought, of course there are always people we don't like, but eventually we find a few people we click with, RIGHT? But mom just seemed perplexed by my question and never gave me an answer. And I never forgot the question, and never forgot that she didn't answer it. I'm now in my late 60s, mom is 90 and she STILL doesn't have any friends. 🙄
She's likely an abuse victim.
My mom has seven brothers with seven different sister in laws. I asked "did ya like ANY of them?" Her self righteous narcissistic response was an assertion that none of them were "her"; she truly believes she's morally superior to EVERYONE. such a lonely, pathetic and delusional creature. These people are pure evil as far as I'm concerned.
Yup.
Same with my late mother in law and my wife both .....
You were a very astute 12 year old! In my experience Narcissists stonewall when you ask a question or make observations that they feel threaten their false self.
@@JH-td4mn It was a genuinely innocent question, but afterwards I was shocked at my own boldness. My mom was very unpredictable, so she was just as likely to slap me for asking a confrontational question. Somehow I dodged a bullet that time. 🫣
I think that at some point the artificial image of themselves they project as their real self slips with anyone they spend a great deal of time with. Then the "friends" get a peek at the man behind the mirror and abandon ship. Or, the narc discards them and moves on to greener pastures.
Yup 😊
Well said 👏
Or the friend does something ‘unforgivable’ like dare to disagree with the narc and then is discarded and publicly scorned. My mother did this all the time. She discarded her only remaining longterm friend because she paid too much attention to her cat. My mother was jealous of this old, loyal friend’s cat. Mom was impossible to have a relationship with.
@@joannahediger7820 Wow, that is bad, but not hard to believe.
I stayed for several reasons, but the main reason was I was essentially an orphan with no support system and two children. The narcissist had a PhD, power position and sway within the legal system and over many in the community, family and so called friends and let’s not forget within the church, because his father was a METHODIST MINISTER … most unkind, most unloving and mean family ( the mother was the narcissist).
I mourn the loss of my BFF. She was the strongest person I know and she would end her day with a prayer over whoever was on her mind and whatever she was grateful for and for everyone to read. She left too early. Real friends are here but when you've been burned it is a bit tricky to know who to trust. The best rule is give and lift others.
I think that is a great moto to live by. You can only give thanks that you had her in your life 🙏💖
The best part of a BFF is to take on some of their positive traits when they are gone. You saw the value in them.
@@amandaliverpool3374 Yes, she was real. It is hard to find them. It was a family we were close to and the three of them are all gone now but we have the memories of what a real friendship was and hope to find another.
@@aaronkwolfe Most definitely 🌹
Sorry for your loss.
I was recently cut off from sibling for asking for pictures of their new home because I was excited to see. She accused me of being jealous & wanting her to fall on her face. Since this has happened I’ve noticed that the past three years any woman that’s wanted to be her friend, she has created these false stories that she has made up in her head thinking they are jealous & they are jealous of her and wanting her to fall on her face. The thing about conflicts is that you see things clearly sometimes that you didn’t before. God reveals things sometimes to us in difficult ways. But her moving I believe is a blessing & protection from the Lord. She hasn’t bothered me, but I didn’t know I bothered her.
Assuming you may be on this Channel for a reason is one of your parents narcissistic? Once we get away from that type of abuse you don’t trust anyone. I let go EVERYONE because you don’t know WHO is the enabling flying monkey. They are everywhere. I am more secretive of my dealings post narc awareness. My sister has her own view of whatever so I let her go in sharing a lot of my business or moves. It prob gets discussed with our mother but anyways live in peace and if you all were good she’ll come around as she heals and gets a grasp on boundaries.
I've known this for a while about my narc brother and his wife. No one is good enough for them. And they trust no one. Thank goodness i have no contact with them.
She had real friends. People who were friends to her. Generous, inquisitive, understanding, etc. She could reciprocate (or at least look like she could) for awhile. Then came reality, and they were gone.
Of course, once they were gone, she’d tell me how horrible they were and that it was no real loss to her. And I believed her. I know better now.
@aaronkwolfe
Hi Aaron. Likewise. My nex's interaction with friends was truly confusing to watch, she'd insult all behind their backs, but kept the worst insults for my friends. Any male friend was 'a playa", with whom I only wanted friendship for the things 'playas do', and I wouldn't dare write here how she would describe my female friends.
I'm free of that craziness now.
All the best 🙏
@@sturobertson6791 Very two faced. I have had a friend like that and she was equally stubborn in her convictions about other people. And yes, even the trash talking about my friends. At first I tried to ignore it, then tried to address it, but she really did not take in any diffrent sounds. So exhausting. I have noticed that my best friends nowadays never talk badly about mutual friends. It's freeing. If I can, I don't ever want to be close to a negative person again. 😅
@Zeepjeliefs
Hi Zeep. Thanks for your reply. They talk badly about your friends to try to isolate you, bc they want you to give them and only them all your attention.
They. Do the same with your children and siblings.
I completely agree when you say your best friends never talk badly about mutual friends. We become super tuned to recognise positive, healthy people, and avoid the negative ones who gossip drama.
It makes me so sad that my brother won't be able to have real relationships. Many of us have tried with him but we always end up in the same place.
As a child I never really comprehended just how lonely I was. My Dad was Mr Popularity, or at least he thought so. The important person at work, the important person at the sailing club. Yet the only person we saw with any regularity was his mum, every second year for Christmas. To this day my parents bustle around going to bowling club and sailing club and yet last I knew my dad still thought of himself as Mr Popularity, who never actually has any friends. I would feel sorry for my mum but she's as shallow and superficial as he is.
The person I had kids with used them to control me. He had no friends so he tried to turn our youngest into his friend. Not my friend; when I wanted time with him something disastrous would happen. He smeared me to the other kids, making it clear he is their only parent. Don’t tell, but mommy doesn’t love you…very abusive to their hearts and heads.
We want ways to deal with a narcissist at work. Thank you for your previous efforts
A recent video from Dr. C was about the 4 levels of communication, it has a lot of helpful tips, including for the work situation, I really appreciated and recommend.
When my ex narcs mother passed away, I was surprised to see not one person from his friend group of many years attended. I thought it was odd, but didn't say anything of course. It was about a year later that I realized he's a narcissist & it then made sense. These are friends that get together a few times a year for birthdays & such, but it's clear that there's no deep connection there like I had thought there was.
Sometimes in Relationships, even in Long-Term Relationships, we might not know who we're REALLY dealing with... until we're DONE dealing with them.
All things you said resonated for me Dr C. I wanted to share a quote that I recently read "Only look down on other people if you are going to bring them up". English is not my first language but this made me think of team healthy. It's also an ingredient for true friendship, to me. True friends want to build you up, are happy for your succes and you can be vulnerable with them, back and forth.
62 and finding answers. Thank you. I live in senior housing and the covert narcissistic people are abundant.
Thank you Dr. Carter! There are so many narcissists in the world. So many people are broken. It’s sad…
We’ve known a family for 60+ years that was “like” family. When our mother passed in June last year, not ONE of them came to the services, sent a memorial, a card, a text, a phone call or anything. The parents of that family were some of my parents’ best friends. I have decided that I will still be cordial to them, but that’s it. Is that wrong of me?
I dontthink itswrong of you.
You can be cordial, polite, maybe hear and learn about why they didn't do those things.
Trust your gut to tell you if they represent healthy continued friendship, or, as you say, just being cordial.
Live in Dignity, Respect, and Civility. That should be enough. Cordial counts.
I wouldn't be cordial as imo feels false I'd ask them why what happened.. maybe they had an illness etc? If not then why?
@@neilmurphy966That’s true, but they couldn’t send a card or make a phone call????
They were your parent's best friends and those two have passed on already, correct? Is your father still alive?
It is good to be civil, true.
If you didn't hear from them you could have maybe missed a card or a call. If they are obviously trying to avoid this you shouldn't feel you have to inquire to account for it.
I'm sorry you are hurting, don't put yourself in unnecessary pain. 🌹🫂
The fact that I had to suffer for around four years just because I chose solitude and to go my own way shows how one-directional my friendship was. If obeying is a requisite for peace then that is not friendship, not mutuality, and not respectful. I got the see the truth and their face of deception.
Well said👍. One of the things I've learned here is its better to be on your own than with the wrong person
𝚂𝚘 𝚝𝚛𝚞𝚎
This is a most difficult relationship. Still packing to leave. Making a plan.
Could be another month before I'm out.
Pamela of SE Oklahoma
Take care, be yourself, don't allow yourself to be hoovered back. Support available here on TH if needed. Best of luck and best wishes.
You are worth it and always have been👍
Discretion pays.
@@sturobertson6791 When I leave my homestead here in Oklahoma I'm headed to Eastern TN. Never will I see him again. 13 yrs is enough. I have a son that lives there. Thanks for your words.
Pamela of SE Oklahoma
@Noname-xm2lj
Hi noname. I hear in your words you have had enough.
Well done, you are doing a brave thing, and the right thing.
I don't know your story or your reasons, but this is your time to (re) discover your goodness, your beliefs, values, and how you deserve to be treated.
Far better to be on your own than with the wrong person.
If it hasn't got better in 13 years, likely it never will.i think you already have, but may I gently suggest keep on learning about self care.
It's not trivial, or easy, or overnight, but learning self care skills will help you be the best version of yourself, and good, decent, genuine people WILL come into your life...I wish you all the best🙏🫂
@@Noname-xm2lj🫂🌹
Hey Team Healthy friends 😊♥️
I was just having this conversation with loved ones the other day about what was actually going on with a narcissist and the revolving door of their "friendships." The coverts are so good at appearing normal I feel bad for those that fall into their webs because it can go on for quite a while. Thanks for this, Dr. C, you make the world better with your expertise. (PS Gus looks snug on his rug back there. Give him a pet from all of us out here!)
They think themselves pillars of the community. My sister is married to one...he's caused a big rift in our once very close family.
With narcs it's all about the appearance not the substance... shallow self centered superficial individuals. Many of them are great actors and have expertly crafted public masks.
My narcissistic mother stated many times "I don't need friends. I'm alone wolf and that was find by me." Whenever she made a friend it didn't last long. They just stop calling or coming around.
My ex seemed to hate people, overall, but tolerated them when they had something he needed or wanted 🤦🏻♀️
Case-in-point:
He'd schmooze our customers to make a sale but insult them behind their back to me. It was awful. I truly love people and his constant insults and put downs weren't necessary~
He had about 2 friends he'd fish with about once a year, but he said they never talked.
Now I know why me loving fishing (a prerequisite of us getting engaged 😳) was sooooooo important to him! He had nobody else to go with him all the time and he hated to be alone. 😅
I realized that my "friend" of many years had no problems making digs at me and being horribly rude at times. When I tried to talk about it, he was always "too busy." I realized that I wasn't really a friend, just another prop in his life to make himself look popular at parties or dinners out. I finally told him I was done.
Off topic. A couple of weeks ago I asked for your prayers because I might have cancer. Yesterday I found out that I do have it but it's early and treatable. Please keep praying
Thoughts and prayers for you. 😢❤
@@pamwhitehouse5961 ty
Darlene, I prayed right away, then kept a tab open of your profile to remind me to continue. THANK YOU for the update. Rejoicing with you on it being treatable.
@@aaronkwolfe Thank you. I appreciate it
🙏 earnestly!
..."even in the midsts of differences." I suspect these differences are a frequent flashpoint in a relationship where the friend asks to understand but the narcisist undermines, extinguishes and controls the differences.
Most apex predators hunt alone or kill one another off as they compete for prey or in our case us as supply
I think they see real friendship as weakness. Lots of mythical lone wolf hero stories in our toxic culture.
Damn.
Oh my, this video is definitely for me!. I realized, although I kinda knew deep inside, that a "friend" of 38 years is the type of person you described in this video. As heartbreaking as it is/was, I ended our "friendship" a few months ago when I realized our "friendship" was one-sided and a lie 😢.
When I would tell my narc sis about my kind friends, and the gratitude I felt for the kind gestures they extended to me, she seemed jealous. Sometimes she wanted to meet them so she could also be the receipient of their kindness. Once I was saying I'd be dropping my kid off at a friend's house for babysitting, and sis piped up with, "ooh, ask him if he'd babysit for me too." I had an immediate internal reaction of "hey, don't try to use my friends; get your own friends." Then I realized she didn't have any close friends. She criticized and found fault with everybody she knew.
Literally every behaviour you mentioned was present with my ex husband. He got worse as he got older. It’s quite astounding really.
Dr. Phil has said that with the cultural sway toward victimization and narcissistic traits that giving "the benefit of the doubt" has become outmoded. Sad to say, I agree with him.
Trust your instincts and believe what people show you!! 💜🐾
Sometimes the "Me too" can be sympathy in intent showing you understand what they are going through.
Yes, understanding this has caused me a lot of rumination. I think that it is okay to show understanding by describing what happened to you - but after the person who is venting has had their time to tell their story and you have listened and offered comfort, and maybe even some good advice if you have any that works well. The narc is not interested in what happened to them, just in seizing the opportunity to dominate the conversation by showing who is the bigger victim. They 'win' - because they dominate the conversation, it seems.
Yes this is true but care must be taken to not talk over the other person. Normal people say "me too, i understand, go on". Narcs say "me too....." as they cut you off and tell you every detail of their story from the past and then walk way or change the subject.
This is an important learning experience for autistic people in particular.
I really feel like WHY BOTHER with them - if they were "friends" just move on. They might look down on me - that is on them - but I am DISAPPOINTED IN THEM
Dr. C you have help me soooo much! Im the scapegoat and 26yrs currently married to my malignant/covert narc so basically narcs all over. I used to call my husband my friend in the beginning of our marriage. I was so wrong about that....I wish you were my family member Dr. C...I would have gravitated toward you and your kindness and genuine respect! Its pouring out of you and precious Gus❤
@darlena2728, me, sadly, too!
My narc moms friends seem scapegoat trained previously to her, so they're super easy to keep in their lanes. She goes above and beyond to help them, and even strangers, everyday and in crises, so they think they've struck gold. The altruism is genius. When something cruel is sensed, and it actually gets past their denial barrier, the guilt of hurting someone so kind, self-sacrificing and humble overtakes, whether she inflicts or not. These are amazing people too. Caring and often brilliant and talented. One amazing woman I'd become close to, I tried to get support from when I had my horrific narc awakening . I painfully realized she is also a scapegoat, with even more to lose, caring for her elderly mother and dependent on the living situation for health reasons. I eventually backed off and just have to appreciate still having her friendship. I only hope she doesn't have to deal with scary realizations after her mom is gone. I've heard that can be even worse, and that's hard to imagine. (My dad died 15 years ago and I'm starting to see scapegoat traits, and that's hard enough to swallow)
Had a few friends over the years. Once they realized I had something going for myself, that they did not have going, they did not want to be my friend anymore. Like that could not just be happy for me.
Watching this video AGAIN, and after watching MANY other videos: friends are friends as such, for who they are, as they are, not for what they can give or for what they can do.
Thanks to Dr C for helping us all to think about what friendship means.
Gratitude and appreciation for friends helps us stay healthy.
My nex made friends instantly, tho the friendships usually turned out to be 'easily made, easily broken', often with contempt and insults for the discarded friend.
Well said 👏
One big hint that a person is a narcissist who is saying nasty things about you behind your back, is if they are saying nasty things about other people to you. I once asked a narcissist, after he spent a half hour putting down one of his male friends to me..."Do you really think I don't know you say awful things about me behind my back too?" Then I almost laughed at the honest expression of surprise on his face. Of course he had been, and now he knew that I knew. Although it took me years to figure out I was being used as a taxi and a bank by him, I am happy to say I am no longer friends with this man.
Hello Dr C and Team Healthy! The 2 ingredients that I hear Dr C talking about is what made me feel alone in my friendships. They weren't interested in me. I call them, "Can you do me a favor?" friendships. I did the work; they reaped the benefits. When I stopped doing favors for them and worked in my own life, they got very quiet. That's because, their voice, support and compassion were never there to begin with! What a revelation! I am now a part of a womans, faith-based community. We share our stories and TRULY support each other. We're not perfect. We just help each other the best we can and I'm learning to allow them into that support, a support that I'm not very familiar with receiving. I hope the best for all of you!! I know how difficult it is to be in relationships where you're not seen or heard.
When you have your integrity in place, there’s a chance for long time peace. Thank you dr Carter ❤
Team healthy stay healthy we all deserve good, honest true friends I hope each one of you has at least one, thanks again Dr. C
Thanks Cheryl!
Oh my god…oh my god. This is just the best session. You have hit the nail on the head and described my narc exactly.he has an unnatural need for positive feedback. He said to me ‘I think you are ignoring me and I want to you come to my front door and explain yourself . Well I just walked on.. nothing there for me these sessions really help me to remain wise and true to myself. Thank you form the bottom of my heart. Judy from uk’ .
Sounds like you dodged the bullet on that one. Glad you walked on. Going to his door would have made you another notch on his narcissistic belt.
I totally started seeing the things you talked about in my relationship , Especially when i asked him to go make some other friends rather than trying to Hang out with me all the time which was quiet torturous after a while , i had to space myself
quite a bit , just to get some peace , then i figured out he didn't want to make friends at all , he wanted to just torture me !!!!!
Dr Les, I love listening to how you put sentences together. You really speak well on this subject.😊
Thank you.
I Have known at least 5 narcissists, three women I have been close to, and a couple of male work colleagues, all of them had no Friends, they would talk about people as close Friends but it was really just Acquaintances , one of the guys I worked with talked about how close he was to another guy and that they met up all the time and confided in each other, but when I saw this Friend in the Town I mentioned him and he said " No I haven't seen him for months "
You're speaking of the 1%ters and understood and very much respected
The only friends my sister’s ever had, were those who they would use and then dispose of. It made my skin crawled to see them doing it, and it also makes sense why they constantly sabotaged mine with smear campaigns.
One sister is a grandiose narcissist and the other one is a sadistic narcissist.
All the narcissist I’ve known always say they are a great friend, but when their masks falls, they snap and the only person who thinks they are a great friend, is themselves.
Good that you can see it.
My ex narc always called me his best friend. After some time, when his mask began to slip, I experienced a few of his unexpected rages. I was totally shocked and blown away at how the most menial comments or events would set him off. I began to wonder how he would treat someone he considered an enemy if this is how you treated your "best friend?" Thank God we're no longer together. I discovered he was a narc years after we split. Thank you Dr. C for educating and supporting us in our healing journey!
That second example that you used around the 3:35 mark, could very well be a narcissist. My narcissistic ex gf would hate it with a passion when she was talking about an acquaintance, coworker, or family member and I would essentially play devils advocate by suggesting the view or mindset of the other person.
These assumptions particularly paired with labels can be very dangerous
Oh, and the narcissists I had to deal with for a long time in the past don't have friends. People would sometimes come over, but only once.
Although most narcs I know do not have friends. What’s puzzling is I know 3 of them that have long time friends that seem normal and friends for years. How is that?
This confuses me too but I think many people really don’t have intimate, reciprocal relationships. Hallmark greeting card friendships-mutual cheerleading-propping up each others’ image.
My parent's oldest child has exactly one "friend". She has managed to alienate everyone in her life with her sabotage, gaslighting and undermining, but this sweet young lady has stuck it out with her since college. I questioned why every time my parents' child spoke of her "friend", it was to disparage some aspect of life, whether it was her attachment to her dog, her mental health issues, her career, her weight gain, etc, and she didn't have a good answer. I've been no contact with that creature my parents created for over 10 years now, so I don't know whether or not this "friend" has wised up, as the rest of the world has.
This is the first place I'd found friend disappointments delt with. Thank you so much !
When all "supply" stops. By choice. You'll witness and OVERCOME their patterns.
NO CONTACT. 100%
Question for Dr C. I saw another team healthy member said something like this too: how wary should we be about narcissistic psychologists and especially the more severely narcissistic ones?
Most are 😢
Yes I saw that question! Unfortunately there are alot of therapists not trained in narcissism although alot of them appear to be narcissistic. Careful choice is needed when finding a suitable therapist!
@@amandaliverpool3374 You have to be very discerning and careful when choosing a therapist, for sure! Some are actually narcissists themselves, while others don't know about/understand narcissism, and can actually cause more harm than good.
I have unfortunately had several really bad mental health providers in my life (including psychiatrists), and thankfully after a while I caught on to what was happening, and I fired them! It is hard to recover from, though, when the one who is supposed to care about you and help you ends up hurting you.
Hey Amanda yes I guess I want to know how dangerous they are too like the other person on the chat. The idea of psych skills and training plus narcissism is scary.
@@caroleminke6116 i did have a bad experience once. It's such a vulnerable space we need to be so careful. Currently I'm trying to figure out my route to detach from a psychologist who's showing narc and somewhat sociopathic traits..
Thank you For.Carter . I am the one with the adopted 36 year old son. Adopted him when he was young. He's done nothing but get worse. You replied to me once before and I just wanted to let you know that your segment on anger was really helpful. I feel really frustrated. It's not like a couple dating or a married couple. We can't get away from him. He won't hold a real job, never has. Just hangs around and does just about everything you have ever mentioned.! Just wanted to give you a heart felt thank you. (I've never heard you say that they very rarely wash ) Is this so with other narcissist??
The not washing part is not something with all narcissists. But it is both passive aggressive (I won't fit in with everyone else's norms), and it also is his way of saying "I quit." That's the insecurity in him. He feels incapable of being normal. My heart goes out to you.
Now with social media, it is so easy to believe what you see - this perfect home, spouse etc.. you just have to roll your eyes back because you know how they are in real life.
Thank you for that. Ive just realized that my lovely friend that gave me so much attention and nice gestures starts to criticize me loud when with the group and sends me completely conflict signals and making a lot of mass in my had. I feel like flying down. Just need to cool down this relationship but cannot cut totally due to work. But I already know he will discard me soon and find new best friend just on my eyes. Painful to know so to be used not having a real affection never
Dr. C why do these people lose their minds when they hit their 30’s?!
Dr. Les Carter, thank you for your videos. I didn't know I was dealing with narcissists til last year and your videos are helping me heal!
So pleased, Mark!
Open to our needs. ✅❤😊