Art VS Entertainment | 2 To Ramble
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
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Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
1:23 - What is Art? What is Entertainment?
10:07 - Do books have an advantage?
12:54 - Audience VS Critic
19:22 - Reviewer VS Critic
21:38 - How the Audience views Audience/Critic Scores
25:46 - Book Examples -- Art vs Entertainment
28:41 - Judging Art VS Judging Entertainment
30:43 - Martin Scorsese on Marvel
36:33 - The longevity of Art vs Entertainment
39:39 - Value of the 'new'
45:13 - What matters to audience vs critic
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“Art is not mere entertainment or decoration, it has meaning, and we both want and need to fathom that meaning - not fear, dismiss, or construct superficial responses told to us by authorities.”
- Toni Morrison
My favorite yappers with another banger
😁😂
38:06 HAAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHA OMG THE LOOK IN HIS EYES. THAT SWITCH WAS ACTUALLY CRAZY "He scowled with rage directed towards someone he once respected. But now all he feels is hatred."
Lolol
I think art isn’t inherently entertaining, and entertainment isn’t inherently art; but both are more often than not a part of the other.
If you have a piece of art that isn’t entertaining (you think about it constantly but it’s awful) but your reflection is how awful it was and the thoughts it provokes, then it’s a considerable piece of art.
Something entertaining can make you think about it constantly and reflect on the intrinsic meanings from within that it inevitably provokes because of its emotional impact. But I wouldn’t consider that distracting, it would be art.
I think it boils down to intention of the creator. A lot of comedy is art, but it’s mostly entertaining. A lot of horror is art but it’s mostly entertaining. I think it boils down to what the creator was going for, and oftentimes I think most art comes from the desire to entertain. But either way it’s so subjective that at the end of the day, what we consume and our interpretations of it are what matters. Emotional impact, the chords struck, those all play giant roles in our perception of art or entertainment more so than the act of distraction or reflection as put so black and white.
Interesting thoughts! Like the perspective
On the bit about watching specific reviewers because their opinion aligns with yours... I haven't found that yet. (Not that I've gone looking for it specifically.) I watch you guys because I find you entertaining and sometimes thought provoking, but our tastes do not seem to match much.
I've watched a few Booktubers, so maybe I can help. What kind of stuff do you like?
@@KALtheHighstorm117 I really like things to be more character focused than world focused, like, how does the way this fantasy/sci-fi world is different from ours affect this specific character, or group of characters, rather than it's implications for society as a whole.
I tend to prefer single POV and one timeline, though some of my favorites don't stick to that.
I'm not usually big on fight scenes for the sake of the action.
Some of my favorites are
A Natural History of Dragons
Mickey7 (but not the sequel)
A Long Way to a Small Angry Planet
Emily Wilde Encyclopedia of Faeries
Project Hail Mary
Finna
@@katherinep1010 I think you might like Realm of the Elderlings by Robin Hobb. It's exactly like you say: single POV (except for a few of the books), character focused, limited but still well written action, but still has an interesting world. As for Booktubers however, I can't recommend anyone specifically just because few people here on BookTube have those kinds of tastes. The only one I can think of is maybe Merphy Napier, who is very character first and likes a couple of those favorites you mentioned, I think. On the other hand, she's not a big fan of Realm of the Elderlings, but that's just because she finds the MC somewhat annoying, which I understand even if I don't agree. I haven't watched everyone though, so don't stop looking! I would recommend watching people's Top 10 and Series Tier List videos, since they're a good way of knowing what their favorites are
@@KALtheHighstorm117 I have read most of Realm of the Elderlings (I don't think all of the last group of books was out at the time.) I've also watched some of Merphy's stuff, she's where I heard about The Natural History of Dragons. I have added some of her other favorites to my list, but haven't tried many of them yet.
Thanks for taking the time to respond and try to help me!
@@katherinep1010 No problem! Hope I could help!
only discovered this channel in the last couple days but I think you guys deserve way more subs and views. best booktube channel around, keep it up 🙏
Thanks a ton 🙏
Interesting concept… happy reading to u both! 🎉
All I’ll say is that democracy is truly cringe
I have it down to the rating system of if I’ll like a book you read or not. If Austin gives it good plot and character scores, I’ll add it to my tbr. I don’t tend to like what Rich likes but during the recommendation he shares what type of reader it’s for accurately.
Yes! I love 12 Angry Men, and people always just look at me confused/surprised when I say that is one of my favorite movies. It's 96 minutes of twelve men in a room together, and yet it is very entertaining while also being thought-provoking. I will never forget the "you don't really mean you'll kill me do you" moment in the film.
2 to ramble and mikes book reviews collab let’s goooo. Austin you can ride the bench on that one my guy lol cheers boys
I'm accepting the whole subject of this podcast as a segway to the Jurassic Park book review!
Because nothing will spark this debate more than comparing the author's work to whatever it is Steven Spielberg decides belongs on the screen. Ready Player One is a pretty good example. The book is a solid 8 and while the movie was entertaining it's hard to look past all the changes that didn't need to be made. Great episode.
8? It was terrible.
@@TheTrueRandomGamerreally? What did you not like about it? I thought the book was better than the film and I love the film.
I listen for both of you guys' opinions on books as neither of you match my book tastes exactly. I am somewhere in the middle of both of you guys' takes. Though I am generally here for the rambling, discussions and of course your wonderful chemistry
So I just found this channel through Sigils' interview and instantly fell in love... The channel changes caught me off guard and gave me a very good laugh.
Sigils is great!! Welcome to the channel
Gotta read Imajica and Weaveworld! Clive Barker
Ahhh, boy do I love Hyperion’s prologue!! Thank you Austin for your reading! I am Team Richard when it comes to book taste but Austin has much humor and rizz too… a winning combo.😀
In my opinion art and entertainment overlap so much that it's hard to even distinguish them, in movies at least. For example a great movie needs to have a great story and great art for it to be entertaining and that goes for music and most other forms of art.
Two gigachads back with a banger !😮💨😮💨😮💨😮💨🤤🤤
On what Martin Scorsese said (and relating it to Art vs Entertainment) its like watching those Tennis games with veterans where they mess around and troll each other. Theyre still following the rules, theres still personal investment, they're still trying, but its self-aware, tongue in cheek, you wouldnt be wrong to say its "not real tennis" in that it doesnt enable the excelling of skill within that profession, but it also wouldnt be an insult to say its not true to the sport because its not taking away the joy of pure entertainment.
(Following comments were posted before I watched the video because I always think im going to sleep but then i watch the whole thing because its that interesting)
Funnily enough I was reviewing doctor who episodes with a Art mentality and i had nothing but complaints then I thought 'hey what if im being harsh because this is just entertainment' and suddenly it didnt feel fair to criticise whether it was meaningful or not, it felt like a downgrade but it doesnt have to be, i think because Dr Who CAN do a mesh of both it feels lesser when its JUST fun rompy noise. (And every climax was clearly TRYING for an emotional tag so it just hit me the wrong way)
For my money, Art is subtext and metaphor, Entertainment is aesthetics and tropes. Art can be boring if its such a tapestry of really subtle implications, but Entertainment can be empty if its all spectacle and cliches. Art does well when it really explores an idea, Entertainment does well when it thrills the imagination.
I've found the films that usually do well across the board do actually achieve both, they appear to be entertainment aesthetically but then turn out to have an artistic core "I was having fun and then it hit me in a profound way" (Barbie arguably did this, Lego Movie did this, Nolan does this while pretending not to, in fact Nolan appears like art aesthetically and then makes really bombastic entertainment films full of spectacle. Most peak Pixar does it, ummm, Everything Everywhere All At Once absolutely does this - big time travel kung fu spectacle on a generational trauma artpiece)
I (austin) rly agree with a lot of this, great thoughts, and love the first paragraph anaology
@@2ToRamble Thanks for reading, I know it's a lot 👍👍
Art grabs you whatever form its hand takes. It could grab you with the claws of a vampire, the fingertips of a girl, an otherworldly tentacle, a biker's glove, you name it. Art need not limit itself in tone, theme, complexity, or any other scale. It need simply to expose some underlying truth of being. Movies like Hot Rod or Napoleon Dynamite expose the part of us that laughs at the absurd, Transformers reminds us how alive cars and planes feel, Breaking Bad cautions us that a man when he doesn't have the means to do evil does not mean he is good much like The Godfather. All of these works speak to a part of the human condition and of all dramas/movies/television the ones that speak their part best will be remembered as art.
Richard starting to look like a gigachad
Thank GOD this topic isn’t subjective 😂
Funny enough, I actually am kind of between you two. Several of my book ratings are definitely are, and a lot of times I find myself agreeing with both of you about some things and disagreeing on others. Good examples are Wheel of Time and Red Rising. With the former, I love a lot of the same things as Richard, but I hate a lotvof the same things as Austin. Is the Worldbuilding incredible? Yes. Are the characters so insufferable that I wanted to quit? Also yes. And with Red Rising, I liked the first one more than Richard, loved the second one but not as much as Austin did, and couldn't stand the third. After that, I tried reading Iron Gold, but I stopped after I got to Ephraim, who I thought was the most boring character I'd seen in the series. After watching Mike's Book Reviews' video on Dark Age, I'm planning to pick them back up again. I'll just have to slog through Iron Gold.
The good news is that I'm going to be reading Sword of Kaigen. I just have to finish Warbreaker 😊
Warbreaker, Sword of Kaigen, and Dark Age are all GREAT books (austin here) - and Iron Hold was by far my least davorite and Morning Star disappointed me, yet Dark Age brought me right back. Im hoping youll have a similar experience!
@@2ToRamble That's what I'm hoping for! Then I'll be waiting for Red God just like the rest. It'll join the "Excruciating Agony List" along with Fury of the Gods and Wind and Truth!
Will you guys be at Dragonsteel Nexus?
We wont be, but we will be at Dragonsteel in December!
@@2ToRamble that's what I mean! (He announced the new name as Dragonsteel Nexus). Excellent! Excited to meet you guys
@@jacobcornblatt8688 WHOOPS! We will be there -- didn't realize the name change when I initially replied to this comment -- can't wait!
I live in the real world every day. I have no interest in spending even more time thinking about the real world when i sit down to read or watch something.
Fair enough!
I read that opening paragraph of Hyperion is awful. Not even sure I’d call it pretentious. Just bad lol.
Have you guys read or plan on reading The Will of the Many by James Islington? It was one of the most hyped book from last year, and several other booktubers top 3 books of the year!!
I know Richard has read it. I presume Austin will too
What Scott said!
@@2ToRamble looking forward to a review on it soon then 😊 I just finished it today and it was insane!!
@@ShanBatavia It was just picked for our book club of the month too, so we will definitely have a review out!
@@2ToRamble amazing, can’t wait!
I take the absolute middle of y’all consistently 🫡
I think art is entertaining, but entertainment is rarely art.
jebaited, gladiator not mentioned once, zero out of ten
Austin, how could you say that paragraph of Hyperion is pretentious and then say "This is how you lose the time war" is a good book, that's literally the whole book. lol inconsistency. I think you need to reread Hyperion, its a great book with amazing world building.
Also, I think to say Marvel movies aren't "cinema" is mega pretentious. not all marvel movies are made equal, some of them use score, camera, etc. in more creative than ways than others.
Miscommunication- I dont dislike Hyperion, and I do think ‘Time War’ is pretentious and thats why it works because thats how those characters voice would sound in their circumstance/environment. Rich will also say the first paragraph of Hyperion is pretentious - we arent using that in a personal (to us) negative connotation, just more so to show an example of a book that is going for meaning and reflection versus a book going for pure entertainment/distraction. Theres a place for Hyperions and 50 Shades of Greys in this world, just people have their preferences on what they want to consume.
We are also using pretentious here from the “entertainment” viewers negative view toward art and taking the art viewers negative perspective when looking at Marvel/etc “schlop” (we happen to like pretentious and schlop). Since we love both - just used this discussion to show why people like/dislike both sides depending on their preference. My personal favorite books/movies fall on both spectrums (Piranesi and Red Rising for books - one is very much ‘art’ and the orher ‘entertainment) - and same goes for movies such as Gladiator vs a movie I love like Tar.
Hope that clears it up!
Lord of the Rings vs Red Rising
No competition.
Im the guy that agrees with Austin and Richard pretty evenly but also sometimes i disagree with both as well