Great video mate! You obviously know and respect Luca Pretolesi. You've said, very strongly, that you never use linear phase EQ. Yet, if you watch Luca mix, he routinely uses linear phase in Pro-Q3. I've literally watched him put a brickwall highpass filter directly below the fundamental of a kick drum in linear phase - medium, pre-ringing be damned. And it works. His mixes speak for themselves. So why the difference of opinion? I imagine you'll say something about pre-ringing, but in my experience the pre-ringing is never as bad it appears to be in RUclips examples where an unrealistic situation has been specifically constructed to push the EQ into massive pre-ringing for the purposes of demonstration - IE the Dan Worral example. In real-world examples, like with Luca's mixes, the pre-ringing is almost unnoticeable. But a phase shift would be. Furthermore, it's entirely possible to design linear phase filters that have a large enough window where pre-ringing becomes virtually nil, albeit at the cost of latency. Examples of this are actually the first plugin you mention in this video, Bass Lane. Another example is DMG Limitless. All those filters are linear phase, Linkwitz-Riley filters, which cascade 4 simultaneous Butterworth cut filters at the crossover (2 x HP, 2 x LP). If these filters created significant pre-ringing, no serious engineers would be using Limitless. But that's not the case. Limitless is one of the most used and respected limiters for mastering. So why the adamant stance on this? Curious. Cheers!
Thanks you! Yeah; I've seen Luca do that to in a mixing context; and it does work! The difference in opinion for myself comes from my perspective on my role in mastering; I'm always seeking methods to manipulate audio with the least unintended consequences on the fidelity of the audio; other than Mid-Side EQ and the way the signal encodes and decodes I haven't found linear phase to produce any measurable benefit to the fidelity of my processes in mastering; As for processors like Limitless and other plugins which implement this with virtually nil ringing; I simply haven't explored them yet; and that's more on me getting round to it than anything else; which I will in time ;) I super appreciate your comment though!
@@panorama_mastering right on mate. Thanks for the detailed reply. Good to differentiate between things that work in mixing vs. mastering contexts. In terms of Limitless, and DMG stuff in general, I highly recommend it. I've rigorously tested Limitless against all my other limiters (Pro-L2, Limiter No.6, iZo Ozone 10 Maximizer IRCIII and IRCIV etc.) and every time without fail, I have preferred Limitless. More open and more transparent - if you set it up right. So much in terms of configurability options. Been loving your channel. Keep it up! Cheers from Canada.
Great breakdowns. If you have time you should really dig into the DMG Essence. Definitely gets my vote for one of the most slept on plugins. Pretty amazing what its capable of...and waaaay more than just a great de-esser.
Another awesome video as usual. Man I've been picking up heaps since I stumbled onto your channel & my game has been improving so much. Quick question just out of curiousity though. You said there's only 1 multiband compressor you can recommend so I'm very interested how you think FabFilter's Pro MB stacks up (it's a plugin I already own).
I have FF Pro-MB too; it stacks up well; but I'm not a fan of the attack and release parameters. Also; I use DynOne as a parallel comp exclusively and it's all routed internally that I can parallel each band independently from one another;
Great informative videos, you have helped me to become a better version of myself. I have a question of “linear vs natural vs zero latency” mode in fab filter q3. I have seen Dan Worrall's video but i still can't figure out where do I need to use them, maybe you can help me to usually know when and where to use them in mixes or mastering and what are some best practices using them.
@@Euterpe-rb7vd if you're processing low frequencies using zero latency, you will phase rotate your signal. That's a bad idea, usually, unless you're intentionally meaning to phase rotate (there are use cases for that). Otherwise, Natural Phase is a minimum phase shift implementation and it's the way to go. Zero latency really only has uses if you're tracking or performing live and need to minimize latency. It has no purpose, typically, in mixing or mastering phases of engineering.
DynOne is also like a cheat code for vocals. That´s what it intentionally was designed for. I use half as much plugins then years ago with stuff from Leapwing, Tone Projects, OEK and DMG. There´s no need for fancy emulations from PA or even Acustica Audio.
I saw Illangelo on Mix With The Masters using that Dynone on the mix bus for The Weeknd songs, and I tried it because of that, really loved what it did to my mix. But I believe the way Illangelo was using it was a bit weird, solo'ing each band and all that.
Check the Black Box HG2-MS edition, it's triode and pentode saturation in mid side configuration with filters to saturate only the frequency band wanted. It sounds awesome.
What apple automator processes do you have set up in your dock? I've been thinking of ways of speeding up tasks I.e RX phase correction + normalisation to -6db peak. I'd love if a plugin/company came up with a way to auto clip loud spikes to a set amount in specific situations
Love your videos man! The only thing that annoys quite a bit is when you play in loop that aren't musically perfect loops and somewhat short (it's kind of irritating when you repeat several times non-stop) so I guess it's room for a different approach in this analysis in your videos. Anyway, keep up the good work and keep posting such valuable content please!
Basslane Pro - Post Compression if for texture, Pre Compression if I'm latching onto transient info Diamond Saturator - Post Compression Impact Module - Post Compression DynOne - Pre-EQ
@@panorama_mastering I have experimented a bit and here is what I found: you kind of can do it, low end is usually mono so you can set up a band that just has the low end information, saturate that and pan the saturation sides only, when folded back to mono it is still unsaturated. It's a shame that you can't control the input tho (you can do it globally but that just removes the side information entirely, thats not what we want)
Well done Nicholas👏I have all of these (except the Studio DMI Transient one that I'm about to trial). You should add "Master Plan" by Musik Hack to this list. I've been really enjoying it on my 2-bus lately . Would love to hear your thoughts/ take on it. Cheers!
Yeah; you're the second person to suggest I try that! Let me know how you get on with DMI Diamond Transient Shaper; have you seen the interview with Luca?
Hey cool to showcase some new plugins, I think it would be really helpful to call out which one your playing ie this is with the effect on & the is with the effect off. I did also find it helpful when you were explaining what the effect was doing, it sounds like subtle colouring is what its all about in mastering
May you please do a video on multiband compression in mastering and how to use it effectively. Another video request is how to make any audio reach it's maximum loudness when a client is worried mostly about loudness and is okay with a change in the tonal balance. A tier list of techniques would be awesome too e.g do you reach for compression to solve issues first or clipping, dynamic eq or multiband compression etc
Can I request a video? How do Threshold Independent Dynamics Processors actually work? We all know side-chain detectors that are level and time dependent, but what is actually happening inside of Ozone and every other Transient Shaper, including and perhaps especially Analog Hardware?
Hey G; Here's the interview where we dive into the calculations behind LDR and the impact module; ruclips.net/video/WPcPLWd-WE8/видео.html The white paper we discuss is in the description too;
@@panorama_mastering Thanks for that reply! So I just rewatched that, and the interview with Bill again, both of which I saw when you posted them, and as with all good information, I’m left with more questions than when I started. I also downloaded the white paper which I’ll read later, but upon first glance, LDR seems to be like a modern Crest Factor as LUFS is like a modern RMS measurement. The videos covered a Ton of terrain, all of which is fascinating and immediately relevant to today. Before it gets lost though, I’m still not sure how say an SPL Transient Designer does what it does, and it’s been around for years. Which sets up this question: In the interview, you were approaching Threshold Independent Dynamics Processing as though it were unique to what Izotope has done here. But broadly, it’s been around for a while, and for many, transient shapers have replaced the transient shaping that many used compressors to do, precisely because of the benefits you discussed in the video. Namely that, if you setup the comp to get the envelope you want, you can’t then adjust anything upstream of that comp in terms of hitting that threshold harder or softer, without changing the shape and movement of that sound. So I guess I’m broadening the topic out to say that this type of processing is older than LDR and Izotope, and even though I totally appreciate the benefits and potential advantages and differences with Threshold Dependent Processing, I still don’t have a great grasp on how it works under the hood. Which leads to… In the interview, you asked and he answered that If you know how to use and setup compressors, for manual use at least, this new technology doesn’t replace the techniques you’ve already mastered. It’s mostly valuable for, the reason they developed it, Automatically Matching the dynamics of some reference material, and/or Quickly shaping the dynamics manually but with much simpler controls that with traditional dynamics processing. Is that your takeaway? As to the much broader Philosophical discussion lurking beneath both videos, and all of this is insanely timely given both the discussion of ChatGPT as of late, and Ed Sheeran being found not guilty of plagiarizing Marvin Gaye literally this morning. You are perfectly positioned at the front edge of a discussion that is only going to grow more relevant. If Izotope are building more AI tools, and the underlying measurements that allow them to quantify and therefore Match “reference” material; and a jury just decided that an incredibly similar song structure by one superstar artist is Not illegally stealing from another superstar artist; Where’s that line? I use Metric A/B, which has 16 Reference slots when I mix. In it, I can reference various sections of the songs, say chorus for chorus, verse for verse, as well as listen to different frequency bands of all of those references. I also use Izotope and a few other Matching tools to give me insight into what the AI is detecting with it’s pattern recognition, and unfortunately it Often hears things I did not. The machine is only going to get smarter when I can dump the same folder of references from Metric A/B into the analyzer and the assistant spits out suggestions, or rather performs the “MATCHES” itself, not just generalized by Izotope’s generic references, but specific to those COPYWRITTEN songs I just put in. So if matching the EQ, and Dynamics, and Width, and whatever else they’re cooking up over there, is not copying, what is it? And one could say that well this is just the sound, not the music. If you took someone else’s lyrics, recorded them yourself, published it and went platinum. You’d end up in court. But if you took that original Recording, you know the sound, and played it on your RUclips channel, you’d get a copyright strike, and if you made any cash off of someone else’s recording, you’d also end up in court. So how much distinction is there between copying and pasting a WAV file, and dropping that same WAV file into a DAW, AI matching every aspect of the sound that makes up that WAV file, and then publishing it as your own? Food for thought.
The Tone Projects bundle was at the top of my list last Black Friday, but i can't bring myself to paying those high prices for the Leapwing products. I know they are good but i can live without them !
Yeah; had to back it off a bit in the vid; but it's a nice alternative for getting some thickness to a master when you don't want to skew too far away tonally from the original mix;
@@panorama_mastering because DynOne is an attempted replica of the MD3? Still doesn’t beat the original:) which by the way is available in Native, not so cheap.
@@martijn_nl good question, I got it from somewhere, will see if I find it back :) but I think it make sense once you know. Not criticizing DynOne it’s really good, just giving some flowers to the originator :)
Great video. Have you heard or tried Master Plan by Musik Hack? It is a multi FX/Processor for Designed for Mastering by some big wigs. Would love to know your opinion on it, from what I have heard you can get things rally loud and it just has a really good vibe to it when it makes things loud.
Great video using the leapwing preset now.
Nice, let me know how you get on with it;
Great video mate! You obviously know and respect Luca Pretolesi. You've said, very strongly, that you never use linear phase EQ. Yet, if you watch Luca mix, he routinely uses linear phase in Pro-Q3. I've literally watched him put a brickwall highpass filter directly below the fundamental of a kick drum in linear phase - medium, pre-ringing be damned. And it works. His mixes speak for themselves. So why the difference of opinion? I imagine you'll say something about pre-ringing, but in my experience the pre-ringing is never as bad it appears to be in RUclips examples where an unrealistic situation has been specifically constructed to push the EQ into massive pre-ringing for the purposes of demonstration - IE the Dan Worral example. In real-world examples, like with Luca's mixes, the pre-ringing is almost unnoticeable. But a phase shift would be. Furthermore, it's entirely possible to design linear phase filters that have a large enough window where pre-ringing becomes virtually nil, albeit at the cost of latency. Examples of this are actually the first plugin you mention in this video, Bass Lane. Another example is DMG Limitless. All those filters are linear phase, Linkwitz-Riley filters, which cascade 4 simultaneous Butterworth cut filters at the crossover (2 x HP, 2 x LP). If these filters created significant pre-ringing, no serious engineers would be using Limitless. But that's not the case. Limitless is one of the most used and respected limiters for mastering. So why the adamant stance on this? Curious. Cheers!
Thanks you!
Yeah; I've seen Luca do that to in a mixing context; and it does work! The difference in opinion for myself comes from my perspective on my role in mastering; I'm always seeking methods to manipulate audio with the least unintended consequences on the fidelity of the audio; other than Mid-Side EQ and the way the signal encodes and decodes I haven't found linear phase to produce any measurable benefit to the fidelity of my processes in mastering;
As for processors like Limitless and other plugins which implement this with virtually nil ringing; I simply haven't explored them yet; and that's more on me getting round to it than anything else; which I will in time ;)
I super appreciate your comment though!
@@panorama_mastering right on mate. Thanks for the detailed reply. Good to differentiate between things that work in mixing vs. mastering contexts.
In terms of Limitless, and DMG stuff in general, I highly recommend it. I've rigorously tested Limitless against all my other limiters (Pro-L2, Limiter No.6, iZo Ozone 10 Maximizer IRCIII and IRCIV etc.) and every time without fail, I have preferred Limitless. More open and more transparent - if you set it up right. So much in terms of configurability options.
Been loving your channel. Keep it up! Cheers from Canada.
Bruh. That Dynone trick really is a game changer.. it even works on metal songs lol. Thanks for sharing!
No worries; enjoy!
This Basslane is insane! And seems like theres free section of this plug-in. Definitely gona try it today before buying this but big thanks!
No worries; thanks mate!
Great breakdowns. If you have time you should really dig into the DMG Essence. Definitely gets my vote for one of the most slept on plugins. Pretty amazing what its capable of...and waaaay more than just a great de-esser.
Ozone 10 Impact 🔥🔥🔥 appreciate the shoutout!
My pleasure!
Another awesome video as usual. Man I've been picking up heaps since I stumbled onto your channel & my game has been improving so much. Quick question just out of curiousity though. You said there's only 1 multiband compressor you can recommend so I'm very interested how you think FabFilter's Pro MB stacks up (it's a plugin I already own).
I have FF Pro-MB too; it stacks up well; but I'm not a fan of the attack and release parameters.
Also; I use DynOne as a parallel comp exclusively and it's all routed internally that I can parallel each band independently from one another;
Great informative videos, you have helped me to become a better version of myself. I have a question of “linear vs natural vs zero latency” mode in fab filter q3. I have seen Dan Worrall's video but i still can't figure out where do I need to use them, maybe you can help me to usually know when and where to use them in mixes or mastering and what are some best practices using them.
If ure processing low frequencies content go natural phase or zero latency, if ure not processing low frequencies content go linear phase ..
This would be a fun video; other than; natural phase all the time; and when you're using mid-side EQ linear phase;
@@Euterpe-rb7vd if you're processing low frequencies using zero latency, you will phase rotate your signal. That's a bad idea, usually, unless you're intentionally meaning to phase rotate (there are use cases for that). Otherwise, Natural Phase is a minimum phase shift implementation and it's the way to go. Zero latency really only has uses if you're tracking or performing live and need to minimize latency. It has no purpose, typically, in mixing or mastering phases of engineering.
For the multi band is that directly on the master chain or do you put it as a send on a bus somewhere else? U mentioned parallel compression.
DynOne is also like a cheat code for vocals. That´s what it intentionally was designed for. I use half as much plugins then years ago with stuff from Leapwing, Tone Projects, OEK and DMG. There´s no need for fancy emulations from PA or even Acustica Audio.
Nice! I didn't know that was what it was designed for!
Diamond Saturator was my favorite plugin of 2022.
I saw Illangelo on Mix With The Masters using that Dynone on the mix bus for The Weeknd songs, and I tried it because of that, really loved what it did to my mix. But I believe the way Illangelo was using it was a bit weird, solo'ing each band and all that.
Interesting; I'll need to check that out!
i also got this plugin after seeing illangelo using it. now learning how to use it properly.
Check the Black Box HG2-MS edition, it's triode and pentode saturation in mid side configuration with filters to saturate only the frequency band wanted. It sounds awesome.
I've got it! it is awesome!
What apple automator processes do you have set up in your dock? I've been thinking of ways of speeding up tasks I.e RX phase correction + normalisation to -6db peak. I'd love if a plugin/company came up with a way to auto clip loud spikes to a set amount in specific situations
Love your videos man! The only thing that annoys quite a bit is when you play in loop that aren't musically perfect loops and somewhat short (it's kind of irritating when you repeat several times non-stop) so I guess it's room for a different approach in this analysis in your videos. Anyway, keep up the good work and keep posting such valuable content please!
Yes! Fair enough; I get lazy on that front; but you're not the first to mention; so I'll be sure to get that in line for future vids;
I would have reservations puttinf acustica on the master. they have a oong history of weird resampling and internal stretching of IRs
Great review! If i could ask, Where in your chain do you place them?
Basslane Pro - Post Compression if for texture, Pre Compression if I'm latching onto transient info
Diamond Saturator - Post Compression
Impact Module - Post Compression
DynOne - Pre-EQ
@@panorama_mastering You are the man! Thank you for all the awesome lessons.
could you do the same side saturation effect with saturn 2 from fabfilter? I know there is a mid side mode in there.
I don’t think so.
BL takes the mid signal and generates harmonics from the mids and places them in the sides.
@@panorama_mastering I have experimented a bit and here is what I found: you kind of can do it, low end is usually mono so you can set up a band that just has the low end information, saturate that and pan the saturation sides only, when folded back to mono it is still unsaturated. It's a shame that you can't control the input tho (you can do it globally but that just removes the side information entirely, thats not what we want)
Well done Nicholas👏I have all of these (except the Studio DMI Transient one that I'm about to trial). You should add "Master Plan" by Musik Hack to this list. I've been really enjoying it on my 2-bus lately . Would love to hear your thoughts/ take on it. Cheers!
Yeah; you're the second person to suggest I try that!
Let me know how you get on with DMI Diamond Transient Shaper; have you seen the interview with Luca?
Hey cool to showcase some new plugins, I think it would be really helpful to call out which one your playing ie this is with the effect on & the is with the effect off. I did also find it helpful when you were explaining what the effect was doing, it sounds like subtle colouring is what its all about in mastering
Fair! Thanks for watching!
May you please do a video on multiband compression in mastering and how to use it effectively. Another video request is how to make any audio reach it's maximum loudness when a client is worried mostly about loudness and is okay with a change in the tonal balance. A tier list of techniques would be awesome too e.g do you reach for compression to solve issues first or clipping, dynamic eq or multiband compression etc
Its typically used to control one or two bands of frequencies in an attempt to balance the whole track. Like de essing, or controlling the low end.
Interesting topics! Will definitely consider!
Thanks for the video, good plugins
My pleasure!
Basslane vs tdrnova please
Woah that first plug in
Yeah; wild hey!
How does dynaone compare in terms of fidelity to pro mb?
The cross-overs are superior!
@@panorama_mastering in other words, no / less pre-ringing? Do you know how they are able to achieve that?
@@panorama_mastering also, have you used DMG multiplicity?
More gems 💎💎💎
Can I request a video?
How do Threshold Independent Dynamics Processors actually work?
We all know side-chain detectors that are level and time dependent, but what is actually happening inside of Ozone and every other Transient Shaper, including and perhaps especially Analog Hardware?
Hey G;
Here's the interview where we dive into the calculations behind LDR and the impact module; ruclips.net/video/WPcPLWd-WE8/видео.html
The white paper we discuss is in the description too;
@@panorama_mastering Thanks for that reply!
So I just rewatched that, and the interview with Bill again, both of which I saw when you posted them, and as with all good information, I’m left with more questions than when I started. I also downloaded the white paper which I’ll read later, but upon first glance, LDR seems to be like a modern Crest Factor as LUFS is like a modern RMS measurement.
The videos covered a Ton of terrain, all of which is fascinating and immediately relevant to today.
Before it gets lost though, I’m still not sure how say an SPL Transient Designer does what it does, and it’s been around for years.
Which sets up this question:
In the interview, you were approaching Threshold Independent Dynamics Processing as though it were unique to what Izotope has done here.
But broadly, it’s been around for a while, and for many, transient shapers have replaced the transient shaping that many used compressors to do, precisely because of the benefits you discussed in the video. Namely that, if you setup the comp to get the envelope you want, you can’t then adjust anything upstream of that comp in terms of hitting that threshold harder or softer, without changing the shape and movement of that sound.
So I guess I’m broadening the topic out to say that this type of processing is older than LDR and Izotope, and even though I totally appreciate the benefits and potential advantages and differences with Threshold Dependent Processing, I still don’t have a great grasp on how it works under the hood. Which leads to…
In the interview, you asked and he answered that If you know how to use and setup compressors, for manual use at least, this new technology doesn’t replace the techniques you’ve already mastered. It’s mostly valuable for, the reason they developed it, Automatically Matching the dynamics of some reference material, and/or Quickly shaping the dynamics manually but with much simpler controls that with traditional dynamics processing.
Is that your takeaway?
As to the much broader Philosophical discussion lurking beneath both videos, and all of this is insanely timely given both the discussion of ChatGPT as of late, and Ed Sheeran being found not guilty of plagiarizing Marvin Gaye literally this morning.
You are perfectly positioned at the front edge of a discussion that is only going to grow more relevant.
If Izotope are building more AI tools, and the underlying measurements that allow them to quantify and therefore Match “reference” material; and a jury just decided that an incredibly similar song structure by one superstar artist is Not illegally stealing from another superstar artist;
Where’s that line?
I use Metric A/B, which has 16 Reference slots when I mix. In it, I can reference various sections of the songs, say chorus for chorus, verse for verse, as well as listen to different frequency bands of all of those references.
I also use Izotope and a few other Matching tools to give me insight into what the AI is detecting with it’s pattern recognition, and unfortunately it Often hears things I did not.
The machine is only going to get smarter when I can dump the same folder of references from Metric A/B into the analyzer and the assistant spits out suggestions, or rather performs the “MATCHES” itself, not just generalized by Izotope’s generic references, but specific to those COPYWRITTEN songs I just put in.
So if matching the EQ, and Dynamics, and Width, and whatever else they’re cooking up over there, is not copying, what is it?
And one could say that well this is just the sound, not the music. If you took someone else’s lyrics, recorded them yourself, published it and went platinum. You’d end up in court.
But if you took that original Recording, you know the sound, and played it on your RUclips channel, you’d get a copyright strike, and if you made any cash off of someone else’s recording, you’d also end up in court.
So how much distinction is there between copying and pasting a WAV file, and dropping that same WAV file into a DAW, AI matching every aspect of the sound that makes up that WAV file, and then publishing it as your own?
Food for thought.
Thumbs up once again to you! But please loop those tracks on the proper bars -as being also a dj it makes my head spin…😂
Haha will do ! I get a bit scrappy sometimes; sorry;
Izotope exiter and imager can do this right??
If you're refering to basslane pro; no it can't;
@@panorama_mastering oh ok
softube multiband☝️
Nice!
can you talk more about Dynone?
Future videos!
The Tone Projects bundle was at the top of my list last Black Friday, but i can't bring myself to paying those high prices for the Leapwing products.
I know they are good but i can live without them !
Fair enough! Tone projects do some amazing things!
Wow that Lepwing comp sounded interesting 😊
Yeah; had to back it off a bit in the vid; but it's a nice alternative for getting some thickness to a master when you don't want to skew too far away tonally from the original mix;
+ best RUclips content on RUclips on this channel. In depth real world mastering tips and ideas to keep the old school purists on their toes 😂
Your channel is gold mate. Top fucking banana
Thanks mate! Big
There is only one who can outrun DynOne, it’s TC Electronics MD3
Intersting; why do you think that is?
@@panorama_mastering because DynOne is an attempted replica of the MD3? Still doesn’t beat the original:) which by the way is available in Native, not so cheap.
@@carlosp.1846interesting. Do you have a source of that claim?
@@martijn_nl good question, I got it from somewhere, will see if I find it back :) but I think it make sense once you know. Not criticizing DynOne it’s really good, just giving some flowers to the originator :)
@@carlosp.1846 unfotunatly the only 1:1 port from the system 6000 is the powercore one ;)
Great video. Have you heard or tried Master Plan by Musik Hack? It is a multi FX/Processor for Designed for Mastering by some big wigs. Would love to know your opinion on it, from what I have heard you can get things rally loud and it just has a really good vibe to it when it makes things loud.
Very interesting concept with that plugin!
@@panorama_mastering Yeah that is why I'm interested in your thoughts.