The Smashing Pumpkins - ATUM (A Rock Opera in 3 Acts) ALBUM REVIEW
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2023
- Listen: • The Smashing Pumpkins ...
How does a three-disc album have so little to do and say?
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FAV TRACKS: HOOLIGAN
LEAST FAV TRACK: BEYOND THE VALE
THE SMASHING PUMPKINS - ATUM / 2023 / THIRTY TIGERS / ALT ROCK, SYNTHPOP, AOR
3/10
Y'all know this is just my opinion, right? 
Видеоклипы
Billy needs a producer, for years he's needed someone in the room telling him it's just not interesting enough. Because it's not terrible music, it's just boring now.
And boring will always be worse than being terrible
One problem: ego.
One of the biggest in the industry.
From everything I know about the guy, Billy really does seem to have one of the biggest, most inflated egos out of anyone in Rock music. A lot of his recent music really does seem to be the byproduct of when you have nobody there in the recording booth to tell him "no".
As much as I love him, Billy’s ego would never allow it.
Cyr was so much better even though it was far too long. They should've dabbled more in guitar and put the synths in the background.
part of the issue is Billy trying to write all these big brain concepts about gods and empires and whatever the fuck my uncle Tony likes to rant about at Thanksgiving dinner, when he's best at writing at a personal level. A few of the recent songs that explore personal feelings-- Silvery Sometimes, Being Beige, Tiberius, Solara, and the whole of Oceania-- are pretty good.
His production gets progressively worse with each album tho, like wth man.
Please don't tell me you just said Being Beige is pretty good. Okay it's better than Run 2 Me. I always like to imagine telling a friend "check out this Smashing Pumpkins song!" And then playing Run 2 Me.
@@mtae5 Being Beige is good. If anything it has earnest emotion compares to a lot of their other recent stuff . What's your issue with it?
Run2Me is shit
@@mtae5 when I was younger me and my friend were at the skating rink since we went every weekend. We asked the DJ to play some smashing pumpkins because they really only played rap music and we wanted to listen to something else. The DJ said yes and we were expecting Zero or Cherub Rock or something, finally our time came and he played Run 2 Me and I never felt so let down.
@@sagganuts18 I could say way too much but I'll try not to. It's good in an objective kind of sense that making any music is hard. The problem is it came from Billy Corgan and comparing this with what I'd come to expect, this is jarringly bad. It's empty. I don't believe that Billy believes it. Listen to, say, Whir or Set The Ray To Jerry. These are magic. But for Billy Corgan they were b-sides not good enough for the main album. Pisces Iscariot is an album of b-sides. It went platinum. This guy was pulling songs like this out of nowhere so often, he was writing other bands hit songs. He was forming other bands like Zwan at the same time, and coming out with a solo album. He was a force of nature. I'm serious that the amount of output and how good it was is just not normal. But it's hard to say what's wrong exactly with Being Beige. It's just realizing I'd be embarrassed if someone was riding with me and I was playing this. It's more than that. You can't go from the Billy Corgan I described earlier to a Billy Corgan that writes Run2Me. It just doesn't make sense. Is getting a few years older all it takes? Really? Sorry, I just like this topic. It's fascinating to me.
Oceania dude, that album was killer!
Mellon Collie was over 2 hours but the music and performances were amazing. The songs all felt different but the album felt cohesive. This album pushes all that ambition into overindulgence.
Actually had to check that mellon collie was the actual name of the album and not just a melon joke
@@surudhbandekar5374 bless it. Lol
Overindulgence leads to high cholesterol, high blood pressure, obesity, and death.
Still in my top 5 albums of all time because of all the reasons you mentioned.
It's the only lengthy albums that I could play start to finish and want to go back again.
The 90s truly made for some great albums.
Pumpkins has always been overindulgence. It worked in the 90s when Corgan was inspired as a songwriter and they were mashing up grunge, shoegaze, emo and psychedelia into their own sound. Now they're just putting out landfill.
The Smashing Pumpkins can drop 10 more duds and I will still see them as legends for their 90’s output
Agreed. Their first three records are legendary.
@@JustMeeZZ *five
agreed. their first 3 albums are as good as it gets. Adore is great too but it's just such a drastic departure from their previous work and is a much less accessible album in general - you have to be in a specific mood and mental space for it to hit you. It woulda been better if Billy released it as a solo album and instead SP went straight into Machina
Ahh, the Weezer effect
@@RhianWilkinsonMusic nah Weezer still puts out good music
If this was a rock opera in 199 acts, you would’ve given it a 10.
Why?
@@Lu-db1uf cam drmecoa
mac the marco would’ve gotten a 10 had he just made it 200 songs
It says rock opera on the cover art
It would have been a piece of shit then too.
so this means that each disc got a point. hear me out, if they dropped a ten-disc album exactly like this, then they'll get a 10 - 10/10 trust me
Maybe then if Corey Feldman made Angelic 2 The Core 10 discs long it would've been his album of the year
@@cyinic you on to something frrr
😂
@@cyinic Amazing, I was just thinking how I'd rather listen to that album on repeat for over 2 hours than this because I'd have a few moments of laughter or absurdity that would be enjoyable. When someone would rather jam Corey for a couple hours than your record it might be time to reconsider the musical approach.
You would have given this a 10 if it had 10 acts
@@jamesdaniels6696 no that’s jpegmafia
@@cxvxn no that’s mc ride
@@user-lx4vb5zm5s that’s Justin Trudeau
🤦🏼♂️
If Atum was 10 Acts, I would've found a way to give myself 10 bullets to the brain.
Glad to see others here giving a strong defense of Machina. Their most underrated album by far. It’s one of the last original rock records I’ve ever heard. They managed to take the gloom and production of something like adore with the eccentricity and energy of Mellon collie and take it all somewhere new. I’ll say, the one disc cut they were forced to put out by the record company doesn’t flow the strongest as an album, but the content of it is fantastic, especially with I and II consumed together. Amazing beautiful creative songs. I’m excited this new album is out finally mostly just because Billy said after it, they’re finally re-releasing Machina the way they actually wanted to in the beginning, as a double concept album.
“A starway to the stars” sounds like it’s a Corey Feldman lyric. And it would probably sound better if it was.
😂 savage
It’s a shame watching a band that shaped my young life fade out.
But that happened a looooong time ago. There have been decades to cope at this point.
It happens to every band eventually, but they really crashed and burned with this one...or maybe I should say suffocated in the forgetful abyss of space.
me with Green Day, Muse and blink-182:
@@caseyw.6550 so?
@@NatsumiMoviesmuse is still honestly not horrible
Lol, I actually didn’t expect Anthony to review another smashing pumpkins record like this. He hasn’t done that since Oceania.
You only hate this album because Billy Corgan stole your hairstyle Fantano. Admit it.
😂
Bald on bald violence 😂
the decline from Oceania has been so steep. i can’t remember a smashing pumpkins release i’ve enjoyed in the past 10 years 😢
as you said twice in this video Billy really has lost the plot lol
we are never getting another mellon collie
@@SAWCEOfficial I wouldn't say he totally lost it because his two solo records Cotillions and Ogilala are really good, idk if fantano checked those, would love to know his thoughts
I actually enjoyed Cyr, but it was too long. Could've used a trim and it would've been a solid album of synth-pop bangers.
I like Oceania.
Billy is truly his worst enemy, and I’ll never forgive him for inexplicably firing the previous lineup of the band that recorded Oceania, which was a actually very good and promising
I remember one of those dudes posting on social media about how excited and giddy they were to be in the band, what a dream/honor etc. And then he and the girl in that line-up were out a year later. I felt so bad for him.
@@Nel_Annette Me too. I imagine it was probably a pretty big bummer just having to be around Billy, though, too, in a "never meet your heroes" kind of way - he is famously a prick
@@Nel_Annette maybe he didn’t want fans, being part of the band??
That young drummer from that lineup was a real talent.
@@divingstation95 - I always loved Melissa Auf der Mauer’s quote for the _Chicago Reader,_ back when Corgan first started cycling through bandmates, and she played bass with Smashing Pumpkins for like half-a-second before quitting: “I had to leave the band for medical reasons: Billy Corgan was making me sick.”
Fantano is literally the guy that Billy constantly references in interviews as the "mustache guy from Brooklyn bashing the band with a lazy review" 😂
I was literally thinking this EXACT same thing when I clicked this video. Billy can't get through an interview without digging at Pitchfork and Fantano.
I’ve heard him say, “The guy with the beard in Brooklyn” I’ve never heard him say “The mustache guy” but yeah, I was thinking that too
@@Paul-dw2cl "Brooklyn beard" is sort of the all encompassing caricature term he is using since thats the epicenter of hipster culture like Pitchfork but Fantano would be directly related.
Lmao yes.
Except the "mustache guys from Brooklyn" are 100% on the money.
it only gets worse when you remember that Atum in portuguese means Tuna, so it stinks as a rotten tuna.
IT’S NOT A TUMA!
If this was by The Smashing Melons you would give it a 10/10
Would their album be called Pumpkin Collie?
As a Pumpkins fan, this album was so disappointing. It’s a shame that Billy can’t get away from the heavy synth pop rock. This record makes Oh So Shiny seem like a great album.
Did you really listen to this whole thing though? There are 5 to 10 tracks that are straight up hard rock and IMO much better than most of Shiny or Monuments
Thank you melon for acknowledging that Adore is actually a pretty decent album with really good songs
I agree with the thoughts on atum, but Machina 1 and 2 don’t deserve to be called non essential. Criminally underrated, the sorta thing that needs to be listened to a couple times to really “get”, but once you hear through all the layers you’ll notice how great the songs are. sonically id even argue it might be their most interesting work. Love how it blends beautiful atmospheric shoegazey stuff with heavy cyber metal jams
Agreed. I love machina 1 and 2
machina 2 is especially underrated
Same with Zeitgeist it’s actually awesome and if they had made it now ppl would love it, but somehow it gets shit on
the Machina's have some good stuff, but let's face it, they don't come anywhere close to the original 3 albums.
I agree with this with regards Machina 1. There's a track on Machina 2 called Speed Kills and there's a rare version of this song as the B-Side on Step Inside Your Love...the rare version is one of the greatest things the Pumpkins ever did
The thing that ruled about Mellon Collie is that there are so many tracks and so many ideas that still feel like they work together as a whole concept. So many different moods, aesthetics, approaches across it’s two-discs yet feels coherently dreamlike in scope and really transports you sonically. Meanwhile it has hits on it that work as singles and radio hits on their own, that still fit into the grand scheme of the record. Can’t really think of too many concept albums of the same size that really nail that.
This is why I consider Mellon Collie one of very few albums that I would simply call perfect, my soul hurts whenever I see the decline of this band
Its a classic.
The Machina albums might be their most underappreciated works. I recently heard II for the first time and was surprised by how much fun it is. Zeitgeist to now has been very bumpy, but at least they can still perform well live, especially Jimmy.
Machina and Machina II are actually great. All the albums from Gish-Machina II are. Everything after that is either ok or not good. Billy can only make so many masterpieces. He made two with Siamese Dream and MCIS.
Machina were last classic SP sounding albums
the first Machina is pretty good, especially the singles
The first Machina disc is a masterpiece. One of my favorite albums of the 2000s easily. Zeitgeist is also really underrated, but yeah they haven't been the same since.
agree, love how machina 2 contrasts some of their heaviest with their prettiest dream pop
I'm glad you did include Adore. Though I started listening to them with Siamese Dream, Melon Collie was possibly my favorite overall. I ended up being really surprised - pleasantly - with Adore also, and it was ultimately a really cool night time driving album - very moody and some of them with lyrics that measured up to the earlier albums.
Unfortunately it doesn't surprise me if this one kind of falls flat. Even though I watched, and genuinely enjoyed, the interview that Rick Beato did with Corgan and released recently - its notable that the interview focused almost entirely on the period up to Melon Collie. Don't get me wrong, I would be thrilled to get a new album that measured up to the 1990's albums, but starting with the Machina (sp?) albums he/they lost my interest. I still go back to the older albums, but the later ones not really at all.
I’d say machina is certainly worth a revisit if you haven’t already, in my opinion criminally underrated songwriting and their most interesting sounding album. I know people hate the production but I actually love how fucked up and grainy it sounds. Billy was going for “the sound of a band falling apart” and he sorta nailed it. Maybe it’s just a matter of personal taste
@@michaelgtrxu1683 hmm, ok. I'll give it another try then. Thanks for responding.
@ghost mall someone else has suggested I check out Machina again, and so I'll have to have a re-listen through it. Appreciate the response. Also, in response to your comment - I also really like Radiohead's Kid A when it came out. And it received many of the same reactions that Adore had - that they had gone too electronic-y. But really, when you listen through Kid A, you can IMO hear their traditional sound around and underneath the added drum loops and synthpads etc. Ultimately, Kid A became and still is one of my favorite Radiohead albums, even though I'm not a Radiohead super-fan necessarily. But, similar to the SP, I like much of Radiohead's 90's output, but not their post Kid A albums as much- though they certainly have had some good albums after that one. I just never got into them as much as those earlier albums, culminating with Kid A. But that is likely a product of my age and of nostalgia some as well.
Saaaaame.
@@zorkwhouse8125 I would take particular notice of the imploding voice, this time, age of innocence. if you stray over to machina 2, home, real love and glass’s theme are absolute essential tracks (but seriously real love might be my absolute favourite pumpkins song)
Billy Corgan & the Infinite Bad Album Streak
😂😂😂😂
C'mon Melon, you can't say Mellon Collie is the better album solely because it has your name in it.
I’m so sick of the overwhelming NOTHING in fantano comment section like I wish he could filter out the copy and pasted jokes
Did he really include Machina in the bad bunch of albums? lol
I'm confused why he put Oceania in there too considering he gave it a reasonably decent review.
I mean in comparison to their first three records…
@@Elgordo37468 THAT part
Wish it was just him... Machina is so good
Machina really isn't good, bro....
Oceania is 85% a classic SP album. The songwriting is solid, and the production is like a perfect mix of old school SP and pushing forward.
Strong agree. It’s the closest to the OG material I think we’ll ever get…
The 1-2 punch of The Chimera and Glissandra is so good.
totally agree!
I'd say Oceania is boring compared to their early work and a masterpiece compared to their late work 😂
That live nyc dvd was sick too where they play the whole album
Anthony, the Smashing Pumpkins disbanded 20 years ago. Why are you reviewing a fake Smashing Pumpkins album that doesn't exist
You forgot to mention Pisces Escariot, those B sides were better than anything post Adore.
Machina???
Smashing Pumpkins have managed to be one of the greatest bands in rock history and one of the worst.
If this album was a 10/10 you'd give it a 10/10
As someone whose coming of age was HEAVILY soundtracked by 90's SP records, Billy's descent into inveterate wackness has been a very hard thing to witness.
if the album was named ATEN you wouldve given it a ten.
Smashing pumpkins were my favourite band for so many years. Its really sad what has happened to the once great band
Me too man, I even loved oh so shiny so bright and Cyr, though it was too long, but they tripled down on that sound, made it much worse and dated, and isn't anywhere near as entertaining. This was just a boring, cringey slog of a mistake.
And i feel like he's tried to improve his singing voice over the years but made it worse. He was already perfect
@@Shmellix THIS! Holy hell this. The perfection of his singing was the imperfection of it!
This made me go back and listen to how awesome Mellon Collie is. I wanna remember them for their 90’s material.
can people enjoy new rock music omg
@@bllocky If it was any good yes
@@bllocky I was about to but then I read your name
@@bllocky yea? there's tons of amazing new-gen indie rock albums. unfortunately, none any of smashing pumpkin's recent releases fit into that category.
Billy dropping the ball not featuring everyones favourite NWA champ and Fox analyst, Tyrus, on one of the disks. Easy 11/10 if that had materialized.
Gish is so amazing..young and hungry. Billy for sure (like a lot of older bands) needs someone to kick new life and tell him when something kinda rocks and when something kinda sucks.
He's a gazillionare now high af on his own farts. He will NEVER let anyone tell him his music and art sucks now, he won't accept that ever.
Billy has complained in interviews about fans only wanting to hear his hits from SP's first run, and thats all I need to hear to know he really doesnt get it. If you want fans to be excited about your new music, Billy, make it memorable.
I had a custom embroidered ZERO shirt made for me when I was like six (96'), and sang Siamese/MCIS songs to my kindergarten class on guitars made of Mega Blocks. Gish through Machina are masterpieces to me. Machina II, Zeitgeist, Future Embrace & parts of Oceania have sparks of genius - but after that - ooof. I remember thinking even Monuments to an Elegy had something going for it. But the last decade has been rough. I could list all the artistic choices that have contributed to it, but other channels have done this in great detail.
All I know is now we have descended into music made for Hobby Lobby soccer moms on Ambien. It sounds like it was made by someone who has never been sad....or happy. What was once mysterious, ethereal and cutting edge has become predictable, stagnant and somehow dated. Billy can do whatever he wants of course, but man I hope the next effort doesn't continue this trend. How is he not getting bored of this sound by now?
This review is SO well said. I'm a fan of this channel & the genuine, insightful reviews. I'm also a fan of The Smashing Pumpkins, so much so that I have found more than a few gems on their albums which are widely classified as subpar (both 'Doomsday Clock' & 'Tarantula' off of Zeitgeist and 'Panopticon' & 'The Chimera' off of Oceania are truly fabulous songs). That said, even those are more than a decade old - and I agree they've lost their way. I'll take it one step further, I'm a Los Angeles-based drummer and one of my projects is a Smashing Pumpkins tribute act. Diehard fans often ask us about a few obscure album tracks and there are a handful on our list, but literally nobody asks us to play anything newer than 'Ava Adore' which is 25 years old. The fans have spoken, and sure, some of that is nostalgia, but A LOT of that just comes down to the difference between GREAT songs and GOOD songs.
There are some great songs from the new era but the albums haven't been popular and most of the singles haven't been the better songs. In fact some of the best songs have not even made it onto albums (99 Floors, Gossamer, etc)
Billy's nasally vocals are even more glaringly apparent when there's nothing else to distract you from them
His best songs of the past few years are ones where he includes strong parts for Katie Cole and Sierra Swan on background vocal
@@ShaqPlaque I think the background vocals only frame the garbage that is Billy's singing. It's like putting a pretty bow on a piece of dog crap
As a brazilian, I find hilarious that this album is called "Tuna"
The best thing about this new Smashing Pumpkins album is that it reminded me to go listen to those early Pumpkins records again. For that, I thank them.
Bald on bald violence ☠️
Fantano you didn't have to give this a 3 just because Billy Corgan booked Tyrus as NWA Worlds Heavyweight Champion
That's a hell of a reference to have in a needle drop comment section lmao.
Tyrus should not be a wrestler, let alone a world champion holy shit 😭😭🤮🤮
As far as rock operas go, it's certainly no "The Nightman Cometh"
and certainly no champion of the sun. "starway"... pfft.
Billy has been at this for years. Trying to be the sole leader of a musical project doesn’t suit him and there’s ample evidence to suggest this. Even in interviews this year he still has a tangible but unfounded (imo) bitterness towards the producers of The Pumpkins’ best records. To recapture the magic of those 90s and early 2000s records he needs to work with a producer who can help him.
I don't know, I've heard him be very complimentary about Butch Vig and Flood in a lot of recent interviews. My impression is that he thinks he's on their level, and he just isn't. He needs guidance
Which interviews? he remains friends with Vig and Flood and praises the highly both personally and professionally.
Vig was on his podcast a few months ago. where you getting this?
Shoutout to the people on Genius posting summaries of what Billy Corgan said about the songs on his Thirty-Three podcast. There is a whole story and several characters the album-only listener will not know about. You need to have the website open while you listen, or you will be lost. It is confounding. It is like, damnit Billy, establish the characters, setting, and action in the song instead of waves of purple prose. Don't leave all the important stuff silent and between songs. He really needed to look to Janelle Monáe's ArchAndroid saga to see how it should be done!
billy corgan sucks? who would have guessed
He’s written classic albums can’t say he sucks
@@sydknee604 hes more well known now for being a conspiracy nutjob rather than a musician kind of like ted nugent.
I remember attending a show from their supposed “last” tour (the Machina tour) and thinking it was such a shame that they were disbanding. Now I think of that as the wonderful road not taken: if only they had really disbanded there and then.
If this was MELON collie and the Infinite sadness you would have give it a 10!
Adore was generally panned when it came out and it holds up as one of their best albums. I had heard all the ATUM songs individually before the entire album was available. I wasn't overly impressed with probably 50%, but listening to the entire work, they seem to have more continuity together than I expected. Having been a fan since Gish, this one is definitely not for first time listeners of SP. Most of the recent stuff has aged better with me than when it first came out.
adores their best album. incredible
@@frogeguy4802 It was 100% viewed by critics, fans, and their record company as a failure.
@@MppMajik Yeah, the more I look it definitely flopped harder than I made it sound
I will disagree with this review on exactly one point: I actually quite like the album Oceania, the one bright spot in their post-90s discography. Otherwise, yeah, from what I've heard so far from this album, Fantano's correct.
Fantano gave it a strong 6 which means he didn't hate it either.
@@duncancole1742 That's fair, I didn't recall his score for that one; from his mention here, I assumed it was lower than that.
Agreed. That album just desperately missed Jimmy's drumming.
Whether you like this album or not, Fantano criticizing anyone saying "overly indulgent" is hilarious.
It's such a strange feeling of being a big fan of the band and disliking their newer records so much. Also was hoping Anthony would mention Hooray! cause that's a real head-scratcher
Bald on Bald Violence is a top 3 name
My new Hardcore band! :D
You can listen to just about any 90's Pumpkins songs and immediately relate to them. It's why many people consider them an important band from their teen years.
I have absolutely no idea what Billy is trying to get across with his current output. These songs are supposed to connect with...who, exactly?
Aliens
Joe Rogan fans
I was honestly waiting for a Pumpkins review. But I feel you still owe us a classic review of one of their 90s classics Pumpkin.
fantano when old rock band make amazing new album : 🤬🤬🤬
“Amazing”
can’t believe Smashing Pumpkins collabed with Autumn! this confirmed makes him the best out of OG slayworld. nice fake out with the red flannel haha, the 10/10 was surprising but well deserved. wonderful review Andtony 👍
Looking forward to seeing the revised score in a few years!
@fantano why is the recent weekly track roundup age restricted. Can someone tell me what he said about the new lil durk song and the chase b one too
Despite all my rage, I’m still just a 3 out of 10
Oceania from 2012 was a decent record with some highlights. It was actually reviewed postively by critics. Corgan spoke about the praise as though the critics were finally catching up to his genius. It was probably because it was more straightforward and less self- indulgent than it was reviewers not 'getting' him. Corgan is a great musician and he has one of the best drummers around in his band. It's a shame he can't put those things to better use.
I looked up this flannel shirt guy's discography for the albums he's released and I couldn't find it. Does anyone have this link or information?
Can't help you there, too busy binge-listening to Atum, worth it. You could try the used record bins between Fallout Boy and Fiona Apple? Or does he go by "flannel shirt guy"?..so maybe after Fiona.
I feel a very close connection to Smashing Pumpkins in particular. My older brother got a poster from one of their concerts. I grew up loving Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, and I still do. I need to listen to Gish still since I haven't heard it all the way through yet. Sadly, it doesn't seem like any of the band's 21st Century albums are capturing their 90's heyday. I was excited for Atum: A Rock Opera in Three Acts conceptually, but I likely figured it would suffer from the quality decline.
Their first 4 albums are magic some of the best albums ever…sad to see them go into such a drab drought. Also Siamese Dream is a top 10 album of all time and Mellon Collie top 25.
Machina = No. 1
At least all of Smashing Pumpkins peers from that time period are all putting out fire albums. Oh wait
mellon collie is top 10, siamese is top 15.
"Gish" is the only truly great album they ever put out. There are a few other pretty good ones, but Gish is the pinnacle of their creativity.
@@lashedbutnotleashed1984 It's by far their weakest until Zeitgeist
Giant Baby Composing new music.
It’s crazy how some artists just completely lose their mojo at some point. It’s with Billy, and sadly also with Tori Amos. Her first four albums (from Little Earthquakes on) were inspired, groundbreaking, daring, haunting, deep, just great art, but ever since then it’s so watered down and only with a few fleeting glimpses of what once was, dare I say it, her normal genius.
What anthony left out in the good-pumpkins-collection was Pisces Iscariot, the b-sides of Siamese Dream.. such interesting sounds and melodies and moods on every track! Or take the “Pistaccio medley” from the Mellon Collie-era - wow, each segment each idea so promising. And now..?
I really hope Tori and Billy love what they are doing now, otherwise they must be really depressed. Once genius, now they open the tap and there’s just nothing good coming out anymore where once was gold, no matter how much they try.
I prefer pisces over mellon collie
@@SmallvillenerdTwo me too!!
Sadly things change. People change. Maybe the well just ran dry, or maybe it was the producers on those albums. The nice thing is that although they will never sound as good as the first time, those albums will always be there waiting for us to come back.
@@VanScott100 yeah very true!
I loved Tori Amos' last record, she didnt lose anything imo. Addition to Light Divided is especially beautiful
The Pumpkins’ 90s output was all golden. It’s really sad that they’ve fallen off as bad as they have done and never really recovered (though I thought Oceania was actually pretty decent for what it’s worth).
They remain one of my favourite bands just for those first 4 albums and all the b sides that were released early in their career but…yeah. Billy should just hang it up. Dude doesn’t have it anymore. Lost his magic a long time ago.
Agreed
why is the main singer of the smashing talking bad about his own album?
LOL
Funny enough, there was a 90s act that put out an album last week that actually had a sensible length, good production and generally fucking ruled and that was the new Therapy? album, Hard Cold Fire.
hmmm when you said soul sucking experience that hit a chord with me. I am a huge SP fan, and i've felt empty listening to this album, its hard to even pinpoint how the songs were written, on guitar, on piano, on a synth, what is the origin of all this? It does seem soulless - and i felt empty from listening. Siamese Dream on the other hand is an album that for 25 plus years i have almost a soul connection with, its songs and feelings are intertwined with me on a musical level. What happened ?
Billy did an interview with Rick Beato semi-recently, where he said he absolutely anticipates AI to completely take over music...and after hearing that (and reflecting on the bands last few records), it seems pretty apparent to me that as far as his music concerned, it already has.
It must be very flattering and almost surreal to put out a weak album and yet everyone still gives you praise and support because of how incredible Mellon Collie was in their lives.
I’m desperate to explore this huge discography but I’m too scared of the stuff that doesn’t end on albums. Is there a reddit post that documents their discography in full? Including unreleased stuff?
Just listen to the first three albums. If you like those, you might like other stuff. There's plenty of hardcore fans who will tell you what you need to listen to outside of that era of the band.
Listen to Siamese dream. That album is a 9/10
A lot of pumpkin heads will tell you they fell off after Machina II (which I kinda agree with) but that first run from 91-2000 was legendary
As previously mentioned, 'Gish' - 'Adore' (some may say to just stop after 'Mellon Collie') is pretty much all you need for anything worthwhile/peak SP.
You just need the first four, go ahead.
crazy how smashing pumpkins have been in the genre since 1979!!! thats like more than 2 years!!!
No? What?
Hilarious
Imagine smashing pumpkins for almost 45 years. Their skin must be orange now
My fave album by them was the B sides collection Pisces Iscariot. Siamese Dream is a classic as well.
Pisces is my favorite too!
I'm so happy to hear that!!
I'll never fault anyone who has 'Whir' as their favorite SP song. It's kind of insane how good Pisces Iscariot and Aeroplane are as B-side collections. There are many bands in the 90s that would have killed to a lead single as good as some of those tracks.
This inspired me to listen to Siamese Dream, thanks Anthony
It's so sad, man. I wish Billy would just drop a tab for old times sake and his mind would reset back to what it was when he made Gish.
I'm with you on that front.
@@will-love-lvx same here man
I am borderline obsessed with the arc of the Pumpkins, regular on the subreddit and netphoria, and I can't believe Anthony took the time to do this.
Looking forward to watching. No further comments will be forthcoming.
I will say I personally tapped out after Oceania and as much as I didn't hate Oceania at the time I saw them on that tour and they played the entire album top to bottom which was bonkers! That being said I never thought I'd like another SP album and this one was surprisingly good! Definitely not great and definitely not comparable to their golden era but I would say there is at least a few tracks per disc I was into. That being said would it have been better if the best from each "act" was instead put onto a single album? I think without a doubt yes! But also read next album will be a straight rock record, so if at the very least this album paves the way to something more in line with the classic stuff I'd say it was all worth it.
Siamese Dream is the album of my mid teens that ruled my life. So I’m biased, but also I’ve lived a whole other life since then that only sometimes had SP in it.
This album is far from perfect, but it’s great. I love so much The Gold Mask, for example. His gorgeous croak, amazing melody, and weird sense of composition. It’s lovely. He’s never going to make a “classic album” again. It doesn’t happen like that. The best of their time break it all, we die loving it, and then burn them out because it’s not possible to do what they did before, again. Fuck all that.
Also I totally love Fantano, and I’m not trying to change the review. He’s also fkn brilliant.
I like the spellbinding song. Call me a child of the 90s lol.
“Bald-on-bald violence” legitimately made me cackle
Whenever I listen to a new record, I always find some elements that make me return to them. Even if they are small glimps in a single track, but I always like to come back and listen to the whole thing.
This album left me with nothing. And I'm sorry about it, because I fell in love with SP not too far ago after seeing them live and witnessing this fall is tough (can't even imagine how die hard fans from the 90s must feel).
There's only one track that got me return to it: Every Morning. I don't know why, seriously. BUT it's not even a Pumpkins kind of track and it's not even a single out of the record. I find it nice, but again: it's not SP
Absolutely insufferable music, Billy needs to pack it in
Siamese Dream, Mellon Collie, Adore, MACHINA and MACHINA II are brilliant records. All of them. I don’t just say that because I grew up with these records as they were released - even now, as I’m about to turn 40, these albums still resonate with me on multiple levels and never fail to maintain the same musical impact that they had the first time I heard them.
But now? I think it’s safe to say Zeitgeist was the last album that even sounded like Smashing Pumpkins. Nothing they have done since has any of the style, attitude, spirit or lyrical tone of that band. It’s just bland, generic, middle-of-the-road rock.
I listened to the whole of ATUM and it all just blends together. Nothing stands out, nothing has any subtlety to it and it’s all utterly forgettable. The band I grew up with has been gone for a very long time. At best, this band is The Squashing Pumpkins.
Thank fuck we at least have a new Swans album to look forward to this year.
Oceania
Gish through Machina is a legendary run but it’s just sad what this band has been putting out
This is Billy doing what he wants to do now. I think it's more for his enjoyment than for ours. I'm always going to listen to what he does, whether or not it's for me. ANYONE who can put together the music he has done....deserves my respect.
You forgot Pisces Iscariot my fav Pumpkins album ~ which had an extended version released in 2017ish and it is amazing!! Areoplane flies high is also a fav, just a couple of mornings ago getting my kids ready for school we listened to Last Song, The Bells, …Said Sadly, The Boy, Believe, Medilla of Grey Skies 😭 I love that song it’s perfect raw sad Billy.
Yeah but as a major fan I cannot get behind any of their new stuff. Adore was the last time they were relevant.
Would love for you to compare new Alice In Chains versus old Alice In Chains. I actually don’t mind new Alice In Chains and still have a lot of respect for Jerry Cantrell, even though I’m not really into rock. (But I will always of course adore old Alice In Chains with Layne how could you not)
We all must understand that the pumpkins always bring a new flavor to our plate in every single record and it is always something different/unexpected. Sometimes people hate it at first and then they can imagine their life without it (Adore, Machina I + II, and Cyr for me).
Strange and weird (also sad) music is what defines their catalog. Once they first stopped with shoegaze/grunge songs people said that they lost their essence or something like that, but their essence (sometimes just Billy's) is going beyond and creating something new. That's a pity because people who say this definitely don't know their actual catalog, there are elements of atum songs that are present in songs from Pisces, Siamese Dream, MCIS, and Adore.
Atum is a sequel to MCIS and Machina bc those albums have a story behind the tracks, have you ever considered that the Zero tee is more than a t-shirt with a song name on it? I'm not saying that the storytelling is good, but I'm trying to point out that this is not some made-up sh*t to sell the record.
I rejected Beguilled when it was first released. I don't hate it anymore, but I don't listen every day.
At the same time, there are songs like Space Age, Every Morning, To The Grays, Gold Mask, Avalanche, and Spellbinding that I can't spend more than 2 days without listening to it!
Btw, loved the review. I really wanted to hear your thoughts on!!
Have you heard the acoustic version of Space Age that Billy performed during an interview for KROQ recently? (It's on KROQ's RUclips channel) It's amazing. That song is one of his best in a long time.
@@thenewholistic i did and I loved it!
These new songs live performances are just amazing.
When I first saw Spellbinding live I was finally able to feel the magic of Atum
"Releasing in chunks" is what happened to my dinner when I heard this.
I made my own selection into a playlist about a dozen songs long, which I might listen to again eventually. I was not appalled but I'm not impressed either, by any of the songs.
He reached a point where he needs a Nigel Godrich to pull out a "Chaos and Creation in the Backyard" from his guts, the actual proof that being one of the biggest rock stars doesn't give you an excuse to stop pulling off the best of yourself and "do your homework" whatever direction you take. How Nigel Godrich treated Macca was pretty documented and I always kept that in mind.
Paul McCartney really kept a decent level of songwriting aftert that album (well, most of all, sorting his own "fruits" to release only the very best ones because he's always been a talented songwriter, just like Corgan, his recent solo work is a pretty good proof).
An artist can take any direction he wants but not one should fall in that pitfall of just keeping the creative flow open and not "filtering" it properly.
I don't know if my comment makes any sense.
When Anthony starts any review talking in positive terms about a band... you know he is going to trash all over their album xD
I heard "Hooray" for the first time annnnnnnnnnnnnd yeah........ That was enough for me. Ultimate Comedy tune hahaha
What the hell have you been doing with the upworthy link man I haven’t seen one in months
But…. Did you like it?😂 cracking review, really enjoyed this one. I’m a lot more tolerant of the later output but I can fully understand the frustration. To be fair the pumpkins seem to enemy number one from reviewers who expect their new output to match the 90s stuff. Plenty of other bands don’t carry that expectation.