I think most people generally enjoy action-oriented games more than turn-based ones because they offer more of an instant adrenaline rush versus the delayed gratification of the latter. Out of the most popular games today, I can only think of a handful of franchises with turn-based gameplay such as Pokemon, Hearthstone, and Civilization. I think the people who like turn-based games enjoy strategy, planning, problem-solving, and critical thinking moreso than those who don't. Not to say that action games don't incorporate these elements, but they're certainly not at the center as they're more focused on engaging timing, precision, and pattern recognition. If people say the genre is outdated or simplistic, it's because they're not paying attention to it as a whole. Look at a developer like Larian Studios who have worked on the Divinity games and most recently Baldur's Gate 3 which is in early access. They have constantly been evolving with each iteration. I dare them to play an Original Sin game and then come back and say the same thing. It's a different matter if they find the gameplay boring. As I said earlier, I don't think most people like to engage in the skills required for the genre. There are more examples out there. They could do the same with a franchise like Pokemon but I don't think they've wanted to disrupt the formula that has brought them success. Also, it seems like jrpgs in general have gradually been stepping away from turn-based combat. It's probably due to a decline in interest in the genre, or perhaps to appeal more to a western audience. Maybe both. Anyway, solid video and production. You deserve more subscribers so here is one more.
Same, I hate Turn based Rpgs, But There are some exceptions like Persona 5 and Yakuza:Like a Dragon . These games come with a mixture of not being cliché fantasy rpgs and having a good battle system , Like In Persona , Unlike other rpgs , Stat buffs and debuffs matter a lot which puts diversity Into the battle instead of the usual, attack , attack, attack, and Sometimes good worldbuilding and story is enough to motivate me even if I dont like battle systems. And some Other games have a mix of Good story and fun battles, Like Golden Sun with the camera constantly Shifting around or chrono trigger where there Are only a few tailor made battles every few dungeons Meaning you dont get interrupted every 3 seconds and the battles Actually Have some thought put into them
@Driano Most of this talk of 'turn based rpgs' and 'outdated' and 'turn based rpgs vs action rpgs' completely omits western made games or only includes specific, highly popular ones on consoles. People in these arguments have never touched one of Larian's games. I think you've made a similar mistake though. People don't always play ESPECIALLY RPGs for their combat systems. Western 'action RPGs' are a perfect example. Universally western made action RPGs are criticized for their poor combat gameplay. It's not the combat or adrenaline that brings people in or keeps them playing. on consoles where JRPG releases tend to be focused games are often much more combat focused, so in that context this sort of argument makes a lot more sense. But these arguments often make little sense when discussing Western made RPGs or PC oriented RPG releases in general (as PC focused Japanese releases often differ greatly from console oriented ones.).
That’s honestly one of my biggest gripes with FFX over the other older ones. After hearing the PC port had speed up options but the console ones didn’t really makes the slow nature of it’s combat shine, especially in the late game when enemies are damage sponges at time. Also the ATB gauge system in FFIV, FFVII, etc. Act to mitigate some of the slower animations by giving you something else to do with your time, navigating menus while animations played which I really enjoy. It’s a nice blend between true turn based and action
I tried so desperately hard to like turn based RPGs. But i dont get it. Why do i need to get yanked into a weird arena because i stumbled upon a little enemy mouse. Why do i have to plan my moves out, just let me swing and block.
Even back in SNES days, Chrono Trigger made it so there wasn't a separate arena. Was mind blowing the first time I encountered an enemy. Fought them right on the same screen I was on before battling, and they just died while I continued on. I think Persona games are really good with this as well. Pokemon is trying with Scarlet and Violet, but for lots of other reasons, people don't like those 2 pokemon games that much. Still. There's no arena. Just straight up Pokemon boxing each other while wild Pokemon and NPCs walk by
This to me is a very weird hang up to have about any RPG (turn based or action based). You already need to suspend your disbelief for the entire game to even buy into whatever fantasy or sci-fi made up universe you’re in, but the screen transition/enemy avatars are the thing that stops you from enjoying the game? Very weird to me. I don’t disagree that it’s annoying, but it in no way affects my enjoyment of the story or characters or world building whatsoever. Also “just let me swing and block” is fine in a solo game experience, but when you also have allies and the game is balanced to account for AI party members, but you can’t directly control them; their decision making is questionable at best in certain scenarios and you rely on it to win. You can “change their tactics” in some games but that doesn’t automatically shift all responsibility onto your critical thinking skills or problem solving abilities. You’re hoping your AI allies just…do the right thing. This annoys me most in games that are action oriented but are still bound to RPG systems like leveling and stats, where your skill can only take you so far. Action games should not be blended in with turn based RPG elements at all. It’s a strange redundancy that seems avoidable. Why do I need stats if I’m playing an action game? Very weird to me.
There are many new turn based games you should try though. I haven't played them myself yet or only the demo version but they seem very fun and creative. The Trials series seems to be perfectly kicking and alive and I will definitely give it a try. Fairy Fencer F has a similar system and great visuals as long as you don't mind Anime style characters and lots of fan service. And generally a story that doesn't take itself too seriously. Octopath Traveler I and II have a combat system that I personally would consider peak turn-based. And the visuals and sound are simply amazing. Eiyude Chronicles will be released this year an does seem to have a lot of potential. Final Fantasy Remake seems to have the best hybrid system between real time and turn-based. As a FF7 fan I wil definitely get it. Though I first have to buy a new gaming pc before I can even think about playing it >_
Better and fun is very subjective though. If you need an guideline for what could be good though, a game that is very popular and appreciated by the majority of fans of a genre is still the best reference. @@paulmiller7838
the only problem for me with turn based rpg's is the time commitment they require too much time to complete, I had 150 hours into Octopath Travel and only beat 1 character story and not to mention the constant feeling of being under levels or feeling like your stretching your resources thin and have to go and grind for hours and hours to prepare for a fight
Bravely Default and The Legend of Heroes titles are some of my favorite turn based games. Bravely Default plays kinda like old ff with a twist on the gameplay to give the player more freedom. Legend of Heroes was really refreshing to play as well since its gameplay stands out with arts and crafts, but also having fantastic worldbuilding, characters, and story.
Turn base takes away from "variety". Linear turn base existed at one point because of tech limits. Now we do it on purpose. Turn based linear games are trash.
I was kinda the opposite with action rpgs. They just weren’t as fun for me until I played Xenoblade 2. I love turned-based rpgs and tactical rpgs, but Xenoblade 2 completely changed my view on action rpgs. I had always thought of them as mindless button mashers but Xenoblade 2 has actually strategic gameplay that makes it super fun.
Xenoblade is not fully action based RGP though... it is more like time-skill based RPG, like in FF XII Actually it is a modified version of FF XII battle system
For health reasons I can't play a lot of action RPGs, they tend to demand a lot of fast inputs and my hand just can't do it. So I really love Jrpg's and the way I can have some challenges, some good story, and play a good game even with this hand of mine.
I think turn based works well with strategy rpg because it requires thinking than just using a move per turn like turn based rpg's. It's like playing ping pong digitally without having any strategy and I think it's the reason why people get so burnt out of playing turn based rpg.
Get burnt out playing turn based JRPGs** The majority of western 'turn based RPGs' since the late 80s have used basically the same style of combat you're associating with strategy RPGs.
@@Azure9577 People like different kinds of combat, but most JRPGs have and do use the squaresoft&Enix style of Turn based combat. Older Turn-based Western RPGs(1980s) Varied. A lot of them had first person JRPG like turn based combatyou see early Dragon Quest, the others had top down or isometric grid based Turn based combat more like a 'tactical' JRPG or chess. With a physical grid & rigid movements. Newer Western RPGs(1990s & onwards) dropped the grid & use systems like 'action points'. Movement, actions & aiming is more freeform like Valkyrie profile or a real time strategy game rather than rigid like chess. The Western equivalent of the 'ATB' system would be 'RTwP' (real time with pause), RTwP RPGs play just like Real-time strategy games.
@@7dayspking Square Enix/soft created the atb system which Is not used in any other rpgs i can think of I personally like the ap, turn order, grid based and RTwP systems
I dont hate the genre. As an action-RPG enjoyer, i can see the huge appeal of turn base combat. The moment a player master the environment, mechanic and strategic aspect of the battle, he turned into a goddamn deity able to predict the entire game, much like a chess game. But i still cannot fathom the idea of playing by waiting to take beating in turns XD
Personally, my biggest gripe with most turn based games is just the nature of the system itself. I just can't fathom just standing there and letting someone attack me. Not being able to move or block before hand just frustrates me to no end. I realize not all games are like this, but it's the pause/play nature of it. It needs to be continuous. It doesn't have to be flashy and super violent, it just need to not stop to let me figure out what to do next. That's something I'd be figuring out 2 moves ago. Planning ahead? Oh and the part about not being able to focus on the story while in combat, I mean speak for yourself on that on that one. I can perfectly interpret what's going on in for example; Killer is Dead or The Last of Us, during combat. Because it's part of the combat. The story is why the combat ensued in the first place. It makes no sense to me for the story to just pause real fast while I fight this one guy. I mean with this logic, you wouldn't be able to listen to someone telling a story in the passenger seat of your car while driving, or even interpret news or what song is on the radio without taking your hands off the wheel, or looking at the person or radio. There are some I'm willing to try, like the Xenoblade series, just for the ultra massive collosal enemies, or even the first 2 Fallouts. But most just turn me off. I'm sure they are great games, but when I play a game, I'm trying to relax from a day at my BS job, not trying to solve for Pi. Also, some action rpgs or shooters, racing, etc do require a great level of skill with timing and strategy, just in different ways. Like all fighting games. They are by no means "button mashers." You must have damn there lightning reflexes to even git gud at any of them. They appear to be button mashers because of the amount of buttons you have to press to perform a certain move, which also has to be timed perfectly, or it just doesn't work. There's a lot of satisfaction in knowing it's your fault and not the game crunching some numbers just to determine if you missed or not, failed to block or not, or have the chance to parry. If you go into any boss battle in LOZ: Breath of the Wild button mashing, you will be swiftly dealt with. Same goes for Rainbow 6, If you go in guns blazing, you will be killed almost immediately if the other team isn't absolute trash. Racing games require more skill and reflexes than strategy, but being able to pick a car based on how it drives and not what the stats say can be the difference between a win or loss. You have all the horse power in the world, but if you don't know how to control it, well you won't get anywhere. A game being turn based doesn't make it boring to me, just frustrating and tedious. I also believe the reason why turn based games were so prevalent in the past was because of hardware limitations. You can spend more rendering and cpu time on everything else if the console doesn't have to keep the controls in sync with the screen, animate it all, and have good col detection. It's just all menus anyway. Most of it is predetermined before you even start the battle, because it is physically impossible for a computer to have RNG. Nothing is ever truly random in any computer program. I do love me some strategy, but never at the cost of being able to move freely.
@@Azure9577 I never said it was outdated. I don't like my skill being determined by numbers. There are a few turn based games that I will play. But that's because there are other things about the game that I like. Like Wasteland 2 or Shadow Run.
I feel more in control with action. Used to be hardcore turn base. Especially Shadow Hearts. But in action, cause I'm running and dodging I have a better chance of beating an overpowered enemy without having to grind that much. Turned base I be having to grind and still lose to one shots I cant avoid
Have you tried any Turn based games that aren't so grindy or that have more player driven, strategic combat systems so that what happens is actually in your control?
My take: I love turn-based games. As someone else mentioned, turn-based systems provide greater reward to folks who really dig strategy & planning... because they tend to give you time to plan, or at the very least break what is happening into easily digestible chunks of time. Related to that, I've never felt like I have the best reflexs or reaction time... when I play action games (which I also enjoy, just to be clear), I tend to still strategize, often around where I can avoid having to rely on my reflexes. Also of mention: I'm old-school. My first exposure to turn-based systems was Final Fantasy Legend on the gameboy, which got me tuned into the other FF games (yes, I know FFL is technically part of the SaGa series, but I didn't know that when I was 8 :p), and from there JRPGs & turn based RPGs in general. I think you're early exposure to Pokemon is somewhat telling... because I've always found Pokemon to be sub-par... it was always clearly designed to be entry level for younger players, and given where *I* started always felt like it was on training wheels. I also think that the tendency for series of games to move from being turn-based to action/real-time is in part driven by real-time systems being more technically interesting, and having a higher innate cool-factor... despite not being better games. Primary callout here being Final Fantasy, but also the initial hook of the entire Tales series & all the Real Time with Pause games that descend from Baldur's Gate. Which BTW, I can just barely stand both Tales games & RTwP... because I find them extremely difficult to play. They end up being the worst (playble) combination possible of both action & turn-based... where they try & give you all the strategic options of a turn-based game but the player is unable to capitalize them because time is NOT broken up into easily digestible chunks that allow for planning. IMO the old Active Time Battle system from Squaresoft games was a much better approach keep things explicitly turn based but add in a timing element to hustle along the truly slow decision makers. Finally, for those like It's Just A Game who want to dip their toes into the turn-based arena to see what they've been misisng, here are my personal top 5 recommendations: * Chrono Trigger - heaps of style, lots of cool combat abilities, and the juxtaposition of the combination skills + the ATB system greatly alleviates any sense of wait or boredom. Plus it's a freaking classic and you are missing out. * Final Fantasy 6: A good combination of accessible & interesting for a classic turned based experience. Also had the ATB system like Chrono Trigger, so it has that cheat as well. FF6 stands out in that while (like all the FF games) you can win most combats by just selecting 'fight' over & over, they start you off with a variety of other options for novelty sake. The one to try to see if you really can't stand classic turn-based JRPGs. * Into the Breach: NOT a JRPG, and an interesting take on turn-based grid tactics. * Divinity: Original Sin 1 & 2: Turns up the tactical elements of turn based games to the max... with all sorts of ridiculous combos between abilities & environment. If you don't like to strategize, you ARE going to hate this game. Possibly overwhelming in the options they give, particularly the D:OS2... which becomes almost easy after you start to exploit all of the combos it allows. * Slay the Spire: I have played more hours of this game than any other game ever. This game has created it's own genre, with as of yet no copy-at managing to outshine the original
The whole "it's outdated" argument annoys me I game my way and they game their way don't try to shame me for enjoying something the way I want it this isn't directed at you It's just a game just saying.
@@drinkyourtea I think the reason is the old well known fact "games on those years (90´s) have to be complicated to get the people more time playing it, if don´t they just finish it on a very short time" wich well, I understand, dosen´t make sense but listen up.....or read instead... For example me, I don´t like turn based RPG´S, and not because I say it, I gave a try to multiple old school RPG´s, FF7, FF3, Golden Sun and Chrono Trigger, I even played the Demo of Dragon Quest 11. The story and feels that an RPG gives are amazing, specialy on those games but again, I got "face to face" with the turn based combat mechanic, wich is boring for me, understandable, no harm and no hate, I just don´t like them, period. The fact that´s "outdated" makes non sense, yes, it still there and on a really good position, my point is that most of people say that its slower, another example with me, the one turn-based RPG I reeeally loved were the Mario and Luigi series, just for one miserable fact...I can move and dodge the enemy´s attack, If a boss battle was complicated was because I don´t have the ability, level or objects to fight it. Just that. Now imagine a lot of people out there thinking that was outdated, maybe its just some points of the gameplay that need to include or add to make it more enjoyable and open to more public. The turn based combat is great, I know that without liking it, but maybe needs little changes to get to more people or even, "not dissapear". example, the platforms, running on walls, long junmps etc. Some stuff like that, just little changes, not keeping it on "random" or should I say, not just relying on statistics. Maybe add some skill of your own. Have a great day man.
@@dngames1001 not saying games have to stay the same though I mean you can innovate even within realms like say survival horror with fixed camera angles but nobody is looking to innovate there anymore which kind of makes me sad since I enjoy it for what it is. It's not necessarily that they have to be complicated but that I enjoy playing the game.
There are much more engaging forms of turn based now like Divinity Original Sin 2, XCOM, Xenoblade Chronicles (kind of). I think people are talking about games like Dragon Quest, older FF games, and Pokemon when they say turn based is outdated.
I enjoy both turn based and action rpgs, sometimes it's nice to chill out playing something turn based. I've played some great turn based jrpgs. The original FFVII if you can get past the dated visuals is an excellent turn based jrpg, with a great musical score, definitely worth sticking with. Lost Odyssey is another that springs to mind, an awesome story with some great written memory sequences. I've recently just started an infamous turn based jrpg, which is said to be very challanging due to the dungeon designs and grind that's involved. Phantasy Star II but i hear Phantasy Star IV is the best in the series. But again it'll be a case of whether you enjoy old school graphics and game design.
See this is what everyone seems to repeatedly get wrong about FF7. It's NOT turn-based. It's an ATB. Both sides have timers, and once the timer is up for an individual character, that character can attack. If you take too long deciding what to do, your opponent can attack twice because unlike conventional turn-based games, FF7 doesn't wait on you.
Honestly, I love both systems. Turn based has you think out your moves to overcome a challenging foe. Almost like a question and a response. Action combat is usually more satisfying and forces you to think fast and focus. Giving an instant adrenaline rush. I do hope that in the future games will give you the option for turn based or action to suit your play style, it also gives the game replay value as you can trying fighting from a new perspective.
I think a good game to point turn based combat though would be the Mario & Luigi series, as it has turn based combat,but also has a mix, with it not being full turn based, with you being able to block and hit enemies attacks
@@manlyman7135 Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga is one of my favorite games of all time and one of my most fondest gaming memories ever. I loved the mix or turn based gameplay and timing to attack and dodge. It made the game more unique and engaging. Plus, the puzzles and story were great as well
My biggest gripe with turn-based combat is how damm long literally every single action takes, including the animations for everything, simple things like taking care of two low level mobs feels like eternity compared to real-time action rpgs, and god the f***ing random encounters that are just there to waste time if you're not grinding. Take Like a dragon for example, i watched a lets play of it (because there's no way in hell i am gonna buy a shitty persona clone with a Yakuza coat of paint) and beating a bunch of mob enemies there legit takes LONGER than just beating the shit out of them normally like the rest of the series in the franchise.
@@antzinmypantz7853 examples? Divinity sin 2 and tales of series are pretty dope, heck even tho ff 13 has a weird story and stupid characters they’re still more entertaining and likable than the heroes of zanarkand.
Thing is, there were 'tons' of them in Japan, because they were based on Wizardry and similar games, to a large degree (nota bene, Wizardry is a 'huge' series there, it received dozens of JP-exclusive spin-offs). I feel that this genre also fits better there, in a way - long commuting, lots of patience needed to get through the day... so, you just whip out a console/phone and start playing. In the US, the land of the car, it's obviously different. Europe is kinda in-between; I feel we prefer PC RPGs, but some tactical RPGs etc. are also popular, so it's a mixture of many approaches.
First turn based RPG I played was Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door. I loved back then and thought the combat was fun. For some reason in my teen years I was actively avoiding turn based RPGs in favor of action RPGs. That all changed when I stumbled upon Persona 4 Golden for the Vita. I feel in love with the combat in that game. When back to play P3 and eventually older FF games. Currently playing Trails series and I’m having a blast
If you want a nice balance between the combat mechanics of Pokemon and FFX, I recommend Voice Of Cards. A lot of people mistaken it for a card game, but it is JRPG combat through and through with the visuals and display handled by dealing cards. You get dealt the same skill cards every time, so you can continuously cast heals/buffs as one character, while others set up other kinds of buffs, debuffs, attacks, etc.. It's nowhere as deep as FFX for it's combat or it's story, but it still rose into my top 5 JRPGs. Voice of cards 2 came out only 4 months after the first one cause there is just 1 voice actor (the Narrator) and the whole game uses static art and a board piece to handle movement. I personally would love more games to do what it did to tell amazing stories without needing 2+ years just for making graphical models.
As an old ass dude who grew up on PS1 era turn based JRPGs, I realized they do feel like a relic of a time pretty recently. I still enjoy my share of them (I hadn't picked one up since the PS3 days until Persona 5 and DQXI, which both stand as great examples of how to do turn-based games today) despite having gone a long dry spell in the genre. When you're 12 and can sit and play these games for hours on end and not care about your time, it's no issue to grind, stock up on magic/items, etc. I prefer my games at 34 to be more easily consumable than most turn-based RPGs are. Modern takes have fixed this major issue, and many fix random battles as well.
Turn-based RPGs are superior in my view, because you can't just brutalize your way through every battle, or memorize black/roll/slash combos. Turn-based games allow you to think, strategize, and coordinate with other party-members in a way that is much more in-keeping with the real source of the genre - table-top gaming. I love games like Diablo, Skyrim, etc, but being able to really slow down and think your way through an encounter is so much more satisfying to me. Turn-based games also allow for a more cinematic experience - The slower pace gives more room for complex animations and interactions than real--time combat.
My biggest gripe with turn based RPGs are that the battles are usually longer. I think both real time and turn based RPGs have problems with too many battles but it's more obvious in the longer turn based ones
Sounds to me your real gripe is enemy density more than combat length. The two should always be balanced together, though. Longer fights should give more rewards and be less frequent and vice versa.
Ultimately, square changed the genre of their fan cherished series. They should have at least still made the odd new turn based games. But no, they effectively turned their back on a large proportion of their fan base.
GREAT Channel name. I've been playing RPGS since Dragon Warrior on the NES and I've always loved them. It's a more relaxed experience. It makes planning much more important then execution, but it also makes the battles feel a little like a board game or a card game.
I have always hated any turn based combat in games especially RPG's, I prefer my games to feel somewhat realistic and there is nothing realistic about turn based combat.
That's not true, games like World of final fantasy achive a more realistic and fastpase combat system with turn order being determined by speed in a way thats timed. So, for instance, if your monster attacks, there's a timer that that monster goes on and once it reaches the end of that timer you can attack with it again. But, if you dont and the opponents timer is also done, then they will attack you without giving you a turn. You'll still be able to attack afterwards, but if you dont before your opponents timer is up again, they will attack you again.
I've always found Action RPGs to be too hectic and chaotic for me. Maybe I'm just stupid, I dunno, but most of the time I feel immense pressure if the combat isn't turn based. Turn based let's me relax and think, come up with strategies and watch them play out, whereas Action RPGs, everything is on the fly and I personally have a difficult time concentrating. People say "Oh, in turn based RPGs, you're just mashing the A button over and over until the battle is over", but I actually find that problem in ARPGs. Just mash the attack button over and over, except when you're low on health and then heal, then go back to attacking.
It's so weird to me that people who only played Pokemon have that criticism of the entire mechanic. Like the video says, FFX is what got me hooked into the turn based mechanic as a whole, and as the fights with Yunalesca and Seymour showed me, you can't exactly "press ATK" your way to win. And those were the Story bosses. Yevon help you if you go for optional bosses
FFX is just a masterclass in turn-based. It's beautiful, the story is great, the abilities are neato burrito, and best of all the pacing was planned meticulously which makes it difficult when it needs to be, and gives you relaxing spots when you've just had a rough patch. FFX-2, FFXII, and FFXIII are just.... ugh, hand holding
The stagger system was a mistake. It initially gives this illusion of having so much complexity and variety, but due to how the stagger system functions, there is always one specific way to approach all the bosses, and the entirely linear progression doesn't help one bit. In comparison, you get so damn much freedom in FF10, it's really mindboogling to think they are from the same company.
My problem of JRPGs is that a lot of them force you to grind exp, to level up a lot of random stats. If you don't you die. In action rpgs some of them have the same system, but a lot of them doesn't force you to farm. You can just play.
Great video but bad title. I'm glad that you like turn based, I know the genre has problems but I feel like people are hating on it without thinking about how its not for them, you don't have to like everything, I'm not a fan of RTSs but I don't think its old and outdated because its to hard to understand or there's not enough action. I hope in the future people are more open minded like you and give them a try, and not hate on people,genre or games, just because it isn't made for them.
I used to not really like turn-based RPGs (or RPGs Olin general for that matter). Then I tried Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition and it opened me to a whole new genre. I'm still only 10 hours into it because I want to enjoy it and not rush. I also got Persona 4 Golden on PC to play another RPG as well and its amazing. Both of them have such a great combat system, story and characters imo. To anyone who just getting into RPGs, I would get Xenoblade first. The combat system features some aspects of Action RPGs and some aspects of Turn-based RPGs. It will help you see which element of the game (action or strategy) you prefer and can help you choose which type of RPGs you want to play. I personally discovered I like both - imo all the aspects of the game are fun. Some people may agree with me, while others may disagree. It's all subjective at the end of the day and the most important thing is that you enjoy the games you play. Listen to this commenter. Be open-minded and be open to trying new experiences! It really can exceed your expectations!
I've played turn-based RPGs most of my life, and some of them are among my favorite games, but I don't like the battle system, it has always felt to me an outdated holdover from a time where you couldn't have more complex battles without making them turn-based (I also get that part of the appeal of turn-based games is also controlling your whole party.) Also, I hate the excuse that turn-based games can focus more on story, I've played plenty of shitty stories with turn-based rpgs, and plenty of great, detailed stories in action rpgs. The only thing that an action RPG cannot currently recreate is fighting as a team of people instead of one person.
I'm a veteran in Turn-based combat, telling you right now. They will never satisfy me as much as an Action-based Combat system will. There's just so much to Action Combat that Turn-based cannot fill in. Besides quick thinking and strategizing on the fly, you also rely on your reflexes, reactions, and awareness. FFX is still one of my favorites, but I will never give it another playthrough. As for pokemon.... I never liked pokemon to begin with.
This isn't a "gotcha" or anything, but how do you feel about Monster Hunter and The Witcher on the highest difficulty? Both require tons of planning before getting into combat the same way turn based mechanics do. I'm just curious about your thoughts, not tryna be a jerk.
It's the same with the "this game is too repetitive" argument. Every game is repetitive. What matters is how addicting that repetition is. Some people are going to find stimulation in tasks that others won't and vice versa. It's purely subjective.
turn based rpgs are only boring, if they don't make you think. And if it doesn't make me think, then that has defeated the purpose of a turn based rpg.
I just really desperately want to MOVE when playing turn based RPGs, it’s not that it’s simple, or lacking in substance, but being able to just, feel the game and BE THE CHARACTER really draws me more to the action rpg. And as someone who just really wants to get into the story and plays in easy mode just so I can do that, speeding through the grinding process makes me happy hahaha. Also, I agree, strategy rpgs or turn based rpgs have a much more rewarding victory experience. But I adore strategy in games purely dedicated to strategy, unfortunately rpgs isn’t where I want it. I have been playing bravely default recently though and it’s been pretty cool, wish the mob encounter rate was less but GRINDING IS A THING AAAAAAAAAAA Also I suck at action rpgs, especially the first hour, the panic levels and button smashing during combat are over the roof 😂. And one more thing, it’s odd but I am extremely picky about graphics and animation and flow is a major part of how I select the games I play, and so I just love seeing characters move 😂. I enjoy Persona (despite the slightly stiff character models) and Octopath traveler quite a lot, I don’t mind Braverly default but the models just looks a bit off). My standards are high ok I’m sorry, I hope Pokémon fixes their wild area otherwise Imma stick with watching other people play their 3D open world games for now. RANTS OVER ILL LEAVE
I'm glad I stuck around for the rest of the video, because I was disappointed by your statement that turn based RPGs are boring, but it turns out you too have an appetite for deep and rewarding story, as well as the enjoyment of being able to take your time with each move in a battle. I'm glad you changed your opinion after all! There's a lot there that people don't realize.
I just subscribed. I was surprised to see that FFX was the game that won you over rather than a more modern indie title (there are great ones) especially considering it's age and its linearity. It's my favorite game of all time and I'm looking forward to your review but I will say that I do agree with the sentiment that these games do reduce gameplay for story but I will always argue its not needed. If the gameplay negatively impacts story then it's either poorly implemented with the story or its actually bad gameplay. My frustrations with turn based rpgs are their often lack of depth and complexity in their combat considering their methodical nature. Pokémon is probably the best example. Great job with this video. Looking forward to more.
Guys, indie game dev here, and I would love to get your thoughts on these 2 combats system for a party-based cRPG ? 1. An auto-battler where you give general directions and strategies to your party, and more detailed orders to each member before the combat begins (i.e pre-buffs, mage focus on offensive or defensive spells, barbarian tank or rush ranged enemies, use this or that ability, this or that weapon...). Once the combat begins, the player has no control anymore. 2. A RTwP where you actually control precisely only your main character and can give basic orders to other party members (Mount And Blade style, but the combat is not physics based but ability based like cRPGs)
Auto-battlers can be interesting in how you program party members, but it’s hard for it to hold peoples’ interest for long sing battles are, well, automated.
1. I think it will rapidly lose luster when player has seen most what your animations can offer. It should at least offer ability to control strategy during combat, otherwise you might as well autoresolve the battles. Think of it like being a coach of a boxer. While boxer fights, coach has still some input into match. Such managerial work can be quite fun. Watching what is drawn out autoresolve is far less fun.
My problem with turn-based games was usually that there was no meaning to the turns. Most turn-based rpgs back in the day were not exactly masterful toyboxes of tactical options. Instead of "hit button to attack" it was "hit button to open menu, select command, select enemy, confirm, watch animation, wait a bit, watch enemy animation." It essentially amounted to the exact same thing as a mindless button press, just with more steps involved.
Back then, that was all just trying to be D&D. You weren't just scrolling through menus just cause, you were essentially choosing your action and rolling the dice. Some games were more open about that than others (Fallout vs Final Fantasy for example) but until recently, that's what turn based was all about.
I really can't put into words why I enjoy turn based rpgs. Though most of my favorites are action rpgs, turn based still holds a place in my heart. I'm grateful, because if I didn't enjoy it I wouldn't be able to enjoy many great rpgs on older systems.
yea I regret not playing turn based RPGS in my childhood but ive grown to appreciate its systems and its influence in the RPG genre. Thanks for the comment!
Try to play Shin Megami Tensei (SMT) series. You can start with SMT 4 or SMT: Strange Journey Redux if you have 3ds. Or you can start with SMT V if you have Switch. Or you can start with SMT 3 Nocturne in PC. SMT series is one of the best turn-based game and worth your time. It's like Pokemon with mature theme and the Dark Souls of JRPGs.
If I wanted turn based combat I’d play D&D or a card game. I play games because I want to feel challenged and to control my character in real-time! I don’t want to watch a CGI character go through a queue of moves for 10 minutes.
I think the one thing I find really annoying about turn RPGs is getting interrupted in the overworld every minute when traveling. The combat also begins to feel repetitive when facing the same monster every time.
That's random encounters, not turn based. It's not like facing the same enemy over and over is any less repetitive in a more action based title, either.
@@dragonandavatarfan8865 Sometimes. Other times, not so much. And if you're spamming skills with that long animations, the issue probably isn't the game.
@@Llortnerof 1st animation - open world to fight transition (3 seconds), 2nd animation - Only basic attack needed if character already overleveled (3 seconds), 3rd animation of all party members victory posing and battle score screen combined (at least minimum of 6 seconds). Total 12 seconds of animations regardless of the game compared to a minimum of 5 sec it takes to finish a low level enemy in a action rpg, nuff said.
@@dragonandavatarfan8865 Not all games even do a transition. Most Western style RPGs don't, and more recent JPRGs also often eschew them. The victory pose is also not always done and when it is, often skippable. Also, that's considerably less than the 3 30 second animations you originally claimed. And Action RPGs aren't safe from unskippable animations either; i've spent my sweet time waiting for enemies to actually become attackable because the door won't open until they're dead.
Nice video. I’m currently 90 hours into YAKUZA: LIKE A DRAGON. Its my first time getting through a Japanese RPG and it’s one of my favorite games so far (I started playing video games in 2019). DISCO ELYSIUM Final Cut got me playing games again when it released on PS4 this year. I want to play more RPGs with narratives that satisfy in the same ways good book & an HBO series can. The next RPG I’m excited to play is Xenosaga.
I like both, but I prefer Action Real time Combat a bit more. It’s more engaging and more thrilling, and besides you’re doing more with the characters rather than just select actions through menus.
I think that turn based RPGs have much more strategy, compared to how you can basically beat any action RPG by button-mashing alone. Turn based combat also can be made on a lower budget while also having a more complex and in-depth strategy to it.
I would like to see you button mashing in dark souls and elden ring then lmao. You are overgeneralizing that all action RPGs always result in button mashing which is entirely false.
I love turn-based RPGs. It's a shame Square Enix has abandoned this with more modern Final Fantasy games. I played FFXV and made it about three chapters in before giving up on it. I just couldn't get invested in the battle system and the story wasn't good enough to make me want to continue it. But I love FFX and it really pleases me that this was the game that changed your mind on turn-based RPGs. Final Fantasy games had been great up to this point, but they really nailed the turn-based formula regarding strategy with FFX, and it goes even deeper than what you mentioned here. It's excellent that each character is different (as you mentioned, such as Wakka being good against flying enemies, Auron being good against shielded enemies, Lulu being good against elemental enemies, etc.), and you can swap them in mid-battle, which really gives great justification for having an entire team instead of having a team of seven people with you but only getting to use three or four in combat at any given time. Plus, turn order matters, and it gives you a list on the side of the next five or so turns and whose turn it will be. Actions you perform can give you an extra action before the enemy attacks again or it can cause you to lose an action if what you're doing is particularly powerful. All of this goes into the strategy involved in turn-based fighting. As I said earlier, they really nailed down the formula for turn-based fighting with FFX.
When I was a kid I had other kids try to tell me I was a "nerd" for liking Final Fantasy games...until FF7 came out. Then for some reason people liked it but the old games were "still for nerds" Funny thing is I never saw FF7 as a great game. Good...yes. Successful...without a doubt can't argue with sales numbers. But it's actually one I come back to the least.
I don’t enjoy action cause it’s too fast paced and rushed to the point where I don’t have enough time to enjoy it. Turn based actually gives me time to think and strategize to big brain outplay my opponents, so it feels rewarding.
I fully understand with the action rpg genre and believe me I love the turn rpg but while it’s satisfying to plan out your movesets and increase or change stats it is also very satisfying to absolutely destroy a enemy with precise dodges and parries, I’ve come from a Dark souls/Bloodborne background.
I myself prefer turn based combat because it's more chill and I can take my time... Also strategy instead of good timing and reaction. But as a great fan of RPGs, AND as a developer who's working on a turn based jRPG right now, I can tell that a lot of games doesn't really do it right. Pokémon, one of the most famous turn based games doesn't really have much strategy if you're not competitive. It's basically: get level, get stronger type. This way things start to get bland, slow, repetitive. But people don't complain about chess or checkers or card games, do they? I'm starting Chrono Trigger and finishing Mother 3 and I've seen first hand how a little bit of action helps. In Mother 3 you have the Health Slider that falls gradually letting you heal if you take mortal damage, and the sound battle system; Chrono Trigger has spatiality and recharging time, both highly strategical, UNDERTALE, deltarune and Inner Voices (the game I'm working on) can tell stories during the battle just fine without losing momentum because the attacks require action, so the time spent with text lets you chill for a bit... And I'm experimenting with more dynamic attacks, like, the player playing a "mini-game" to execute the attack properly (if you want to hit someone with an arrow you might have to aim) What most jrpgs that I've seen, and probably the general public as well, do is have a handful of text as you'd do in tabletop RPGs. But as it's written text it likes dynamic, emotion, so it becomes a chore. And then there's the expectation management; if you're fighting a dragon to save the world, with HEAVY rock playing but the game is slow as a snail, it feels like it's dragging. In Earthbound when you fight the sanctuary guardians instead of an epic orchestra, a very chill music plays letting you focus 100%. If I'm playing chess, for example, I will rather listen to some classical or calm music. And then the failure of some gets projected onto the genre itself.
In theory turn based game allow you more time for strategy & planning, but in reality most people just spam the ability with the highest damage and you can win this way in most turn based games. In most FF games you can win fights with this "strategy" and only need planning in a few (side) bosses.
Just because FF allow spamming doesn't mean that turn based games dont have the ability to be strategic look at the Shin Megami Tensei Series or Persona if you play on hard mode and just spam your strongest attacks you will just die to finish the game you will need to use the press turn system bring to battle the right demons/personas and debuff and buff and use status effects you should try it one day
Turn based ruins good story games, turn based is not fun, turned based is boring. U gotta be a real real nerd to still enjoy turn based at this day and age. IMO
I also don't prefer turn based combat unless the game is offering great story or cast or gameplay design...... They are too tedious and simple.... You just have to grind and then win... The only turn based combat I loved was divinity original sin 2 which actually made me think instead of just attack or guarding as most turn based do... But I also had to drop it because it was a little too hard for me....
I like turn based rpgs but they have to have interesting mechanics and not just be a your turn, my turn kinda thing. It's the main reason I fell out of love with pokemon because it's been the same for 20 years. If I'm gonna play a turn based game it's gotta be doing something more than just your turn, my turn. Like how the Trails series has the grid you move around on and the action list. I think a turn based system has to be even more mechanically interesting than an action rpg because they lack that immediate excitement you get from combos and big moves in an action rpg.
Divinity, Kiseki and megami tensei have good turn-based combat. Most of the turn-based combat systems are boring or badly done. The Doragon Kuesuto series is a good example of boring. I've been trying out western turn-based games after trying divinity. Do you have any recommendations?
@@tillow9511 It did feel more clunky and restricted but I overall liked the combat in the first 3 Cold steel games. The story of those 4 games was horrible though. Rean is one of the worst protagonists I've ever seen.
I am a big fan of strategic gameplay and have loved turn-based RPGs since I first played Dragon Warrior (Dragon Quest 1) on the NES in 1990. I enjoy action RPGs as well if I'm in the mood for something immersive and responsive, but I like the tactical challenge that favors turn-based games too. Action may be more popular and it feels like it always has been, but I don't think turn-based RPGs are in danger of dying out since there is still a lot of love for them today and not just from gamers that grew up in the 80s and 90s.
@@archerboy7922 Its like monster hunter world for people that hated the earlier portable games. You just play that one game and the genre just clicks. I can see gears tactics to doing that for other people who like easier less complex games doing what xcom did to me
You definitely needs to try "The Legend of Heroes" and "Ys" by Falcom. Both of those series are great. Kuro no Kiseki is the first "Legend of Heroes" game that will be both Turn-based and Action-RPG at the click of a button.
I really love this. When I had a love/hate relationship with turn-based RPG over Action RPG. I needed to understand why I hated Turn-based games and loved Action RPG. I'm more in love of the aspects of a story going on during a combat over waiting Idle for 10 minutes just to click buttons to have my turn ruined or countered. Then given story. Omori, Pokémon, Persona, FF10 has brung me back to the old ways I use to play and I'm grateful for it. I'm now waiting for a Game called Honkai Star Rail that is turn-based. I think somehow getting a break between both worlds of Action and Turn-Based is Healthy. Thank you so much for reassuring this for me
I don't really enjoy turned based. rpg's because I just don't have a lot of fun with them. I think its just the grinding. I like to play a game were im always having fun. But its not really fun when you have to spend like over 100 hours to complete the game. But im not saying the genre is bad, just i dont like to play them.
yea i completely understand where your coming from. I would recommend games like dragon quest, Pokémon, and final fantasy 10, however if u want to 100% those games it might take 60+ hours but if you just run through the story it should take you like 30 or less. Thanks for the comment!
Do you have an issue with turn based gameplay in general? If your problem was the grinding, that's likely more to do with the specific games you tried. If your issue isn't fundamentally with turn based gameplay, there might actually be plenty of games and RPGs you might enjoy.
I understand but I've never played a JRPG in which I had to grind to get to the next part of the game. Honest. Most JRPGs give you enough tools to deal with the situation you need to face. Its just that it can be difficult to figure out an strategy with the resources you already have. Grinding is easier and that's why a lot of people do it or think its necessary. Which is fine, is another way or playing but I usually repeat it until I come up with a way to win that one boss battle and the satisfaction is really great for me. I've only grinded when it comes to optional, harder content and even then I'm not mindlessly leveling up, I'm gaining new skills that will affect how I play the game in a lot of ways. That's satisfying in and of itself. For example, I'm trying to beat the demifiend in Digital Devil Saga 1, which is considered to be one of the hardest bosses in the entire JRPG genre by some people, and it does require a lot of grinding ngl, but the skills you get in the way make it feel fresh and satisfying because you get a lot of abilities that make you feel powerful. Similar feeling to metroidvania games when you get a lot of upgrades and such.
@@arielcerecer142 'I never played a JRPG where I had to grind to progress, honest' No. The more of them you've played, the lower the chances you're being honest. Many popular JRPGs employ both random battles and random item drop tables. Both are grinding and artificially take up significant amounts of a player's time on their first playthrough. Also putting challenges in front of players a significant portion of them are unlikely to overcome without grinding isn't an 'option'. That's forced grinding and as you've admitted another common artificial time user in many JRPGs. The less experienced players are, the more severe the impact of these systems. Which serves as very good justification to call these JRPGs tedious, grinding, repetitive etc. Yes, sure, great. For you the grind is justifiable and you enjoy it. Doesn't stop it being a grind, doesn't make these games any less tedious for other players. Your enjoyment doesn't remove the tedium clearly many others are experiencing. It's as I said earlier. There are plenty of alternatives to grindy JRPGs among turn based games. So those who are open to turn based combat systems don't need to be turned off by tedious games.
@@7dayspking I see your point, I dont agree with it entirely though. I mean, my true point was that most JRPGs give you the tools to overcome challenge with your characters as they are. No grinding required and you essentialy just replied with "nah man, you are probably lying". And yes, me not minding grinding because of the progression is subjective as most things are. I'm not trying to say it's fun for everybody. It has its ups and downs and I realize it's not for everybody. But I don't agree that it's objectively bad. I find games like uncharted very boring because the gameplay isnt interesting for me. The story either. But I will never say it's a bad, bland game. It depends on the game. FF games are very grindy and the systems they implement and gameplay does not make it up for me personally, but games like DDS are built in a way that makes the grind a lot more pleasant. But overall I agree, grinding is a very hit or miss kind of aspect of JRPGs. In fact, I dont like it, hence why I dont do it. The one exception being DDS1. But I truly haven't played a JRPG that actually forced me to stop dead on my tracks and take time to grind levels or skills or whatever and progress into the story. Its kind of like playing Halo 2 on legendary with all skulls on. It's not fun, very unfair and frustrating, but some people may enjoy the sheer ridiculousness of the optional challenge, and I dont think that hurts Halo 2's quality. Sure, the game would be better with a more refined and fair but challenging hard mode but it doesn't take away the intented experience for the game. It doesn't make it worse. This is just my opinion though.
Ive never beaten a Kingdom Hearts Game and I stopped playing the FF7 remake because I found the combat so boring. I really like planning and strategizing that happens in Turn based RPGs.
Mann i love kingdom hearts its a shame you never finished it. Yea i agree planing a strategy for turned based boss makes winning the fight way more satisfying
I love Kingdom Hearts in concept, but Sora is just so squishy and underpowered that I get annoyed and end up grinding. I love the game but it's so hard to finish sometimes
I did the opposite way. always loved turn RPGs with a passion and hated action RPGs. then FFVII remake proved to me that you actually can build an action rpg system with deep enough strategic components. that battle system is CRAZY.
It was the first time I actually enjoyed Action RPGs, too. That's because despite being an Action RPG, FFVIIR still places a lot of importance over the type of strategic challenge turn based-rpgs want you to tackle (building, buffing, managing resources) and allows you to get away with not being great at the action-specific challenges (evading, blocking, timing hits); one of the biggest ways this plays in might just be the fact you have three party members you're actively encouraged to juggle -- and they WILL evade, block and time their hits while you're body-swapping and managing buffs. Of course, you can just stay with cloud and spam block-counter if you want, too. That's the beauty of it. Great gameplay.
You should try Xenoblade Chronicles. It also is an action RPG with strategic elements. It's a great game with an amazing story, brilliant characters and a fun combat style once you get the hang of it.
How many times have i seen a trailer for a new game, I get excited, then...it's turn based. I get a feeling that people who like these games, like spending hours looking at spread sheets, and menus. I think this is why I have a problem with deeep survival games: Watch the let's play of them, and jump around to random points in the video, and it's almost always "game play" of menu navigation. This isn't fun to me.
I think you dont like them cuz you dont like to think when playing games, also ,wtf do you mean hours looking at spreadsheets/menus? Most rpgs are literally, Choose the moves with highest numbers and attack attack attack, exceptions like persona have style and music that still keeps the battle interesting and makes the battle system more diverse
...it's not because I don't think when I play video games...but that I do: when you see a fight/brawl in real life, do you see numbers attached to each hit? No. When you examine, a spread sheet of numbers, do you see a fight or brawl, no. So, for me, these two things don't go together.
@@Lonewulf321 , that's great you like these games. I'm glad you guys can enjoy turn based games, because the more styles of games...the better. I'm obviously speaking for myself: in dragons dogma, I go into the options ,and turn off the health bars, that, other wise, would be floating over my teammates heads. Sometimes I turn that back on, depending on the fight, and that isn't even a turn based game. I prefer no hud at all, but as you say...its a video game, it's pretty hard to ignor the number side of things...I just prefer less numbers, and for things to flow. Im just haven fun...poking fun, as I was surprised to find other people expressing their frustration with tbg's.
i enjoy both turn-based and action-rpg styles, i dont get stuck in one cause is better to experiment new stuff in gaming, my opinion is because of 2 types of experience discovery and challenge i like turn-based because it can be a challenge and depends from your leveling up, equip weapons, armor, do some upgrades in order to face the level of challenge of a single powerful boss, what makes great about it is how rewarding it feels when you achieve this sort of goals, the game forces you to spend time on your character grinding learning new random abilities that feels misterious and surpising "what new power would i learn when i level up next?" this adds a feeling of rewarding and discovery and dedication to your character, some turn-based rpgs gives you the feature to customize your abilities, powers or attacks based on your preferences on how makes you feel more comfortable to play in a realtime action-rpgs i would say the same thing but barely this makes it feel more realistic and engaging cause now you can dodge the attack and move freely but like any game not everything is perfect, some turn-based rpgs and action-rpgs sucks and has terrible mechanics, unbalaced dificulty, infair moments, bad character developments, bad story, boring dungeons, boring ambient, boring music, terrible enemy design or lazy designing. not many companies can make good RPGs because is a genre that takes so much of artstyle, designing, expensive resources and great technology, good story writter etc. it needs many different types of experts on the genre to make a good game edit: i fix a bad grammar xd
Agreed, but i think we can both agree that we have seen a sudden decline in interest, Especially with Final Fantasy where Square stated that they are going to continue to do the FF7 remake combat style.
@@ItsJustAGameSuscribeNow The only thing that has changed with the industry is how game devs have become increasingly uncreative and unoriginal, striving to recreate a formula that already worked with OTHER genres only so they can cash in on the same reused gimmicks over and over again. I say this from a developers standpoint: It takes REAL skill, time and effort to create an RPG with a dedicated strategic system, something built around actual substance and NOT JUST flashy cutscenes and graphics. All of the same aspects that have been incorporated in action RPGS could EASILY be done within a turn based system to make it MORE upbeat and still provide a level of upbeat action play and combat that most modern gamers seem to be seeking these days. But now mostly everything has become "hack and slash trash" as most people put it, especially when referring to square enix and its ALL a result of devs discovering that they can really just get over on people. This modern generation of gamers are the ABSOLUTE WORST because they send the message that anybody can just about make anything and those who are against it who WONT pay a dime get overshadowed. Its not that there are MORE people desiring a thing, its just that MANY are willing to see a BRAND name and not DARE to speak against it because they think the companies who make this shit actually care about them and are NOT DOING it to make a sale. THAT and the fact that MOST people, ESPECIALLY on this platform are paid off and get FREE SHIT so they dont wanna say anything BAD about the people who OWN the boots they keep licking. Don't get me wrong here, I enjoy action oriented games as MUCH as the NEXT fan, Devil May Cry Franchise, Kingdom Hearts and MANY others IMO are literally freaking masterpieces in my eyes, but the MAIN issue for me comes in the fact that creativity is LOST when every dev tries to MIX and blend and change something into another thing that already exists. I mean theres a reason why people seek after different play styles, because its a MOOD really and each thing is BEST for a different kind of situation. A franchise can lose its identity VERY quickly like this and we've seen it happen COUNTLESS amounts of time. Can ANYONE even really CALL Final Fantasy by the title anymore? Can final fantasy even be recognized for what defines it outside of the iconic character designs and environments? ITS JUST the SAME game that every other action oriented game is now. FF15 for instance took elements from almost every single open world title ever made, even party games! You have fishing, camping, cooking, Driving, Walking for miles on end, maintenance a car, treasure hunting, doing battle quests like SKYRIM and about the only thing that was MISSING from ALL of that is freaking bowling. I mean what the hell is going on? This game was SO FOCUSED on being a f*cking walking simulator that they forgot to actually a create a GREAT story line, something that the Final Fantasy Series is KNOWN for. Devs are becoming SO goddamn lazy that they even normalize a battle system where characters are A.I driven. I mean I cant even believe we've gotten to this point. Star ocean and the tales series have done something like this before and for those games IT WAS GREAT. But AGAIN these are elements that DEFINE those series of games and WORKS well into how they are designed. But as for something like the Final Fantasy series and quite a few others that have changed over to this kind of system, its VERY JARRING to see how something can be so disfigured. A lot of people saw it coming way back then tbh, but I DIDN'T want to believe it as a possibility before, especially regarding square enix many transitions in the past, but now this is like the NORM. I remember a time when the Action RPG genre respectively remained within its OWN bubble being NOTHING more than a different flavor in its own right. Now the very CORE of RPGS is defined by what is represented in this new age and its JUST ridiculous to me because ONE style of game play is NOT an evolution (A LOT of people like to call it that because for some reason they actually LIKE an A.I system that BEATS the game for you) or substitute over the other. And it can CLEARLY be seen in how there are even DOWNSIDES to both types of systems, for example: Turn based combat is being more for people who want to sit down and enjoy a strategy driven game where everything is coordinated and the player is immersed into a world where they take FULL control of party members at their own leisure and battles are won by thinking instead of the players reflexes. The downsides to that is people complain that everything is SLOW and takes a LONG time to process. I personally cannot agree since following the invention of the Active Time Battle type systems, combat was improved in a way that increases the speed and flow of the game, all of that without BREAKING the turn based rules and this was also good because one got to enjoy a Real Time experience. This is contrast to other gamers who prefer a fancy light show with cutscenes and bright colors flashing on the screen every 2 to 3 seconds, a bunch of A.I driven characters JUMPING and flipping all over the place and falling ontop of one and other in a discombobulated mess. I just don't understand any of it or peoples thought process when it comes to this because its VERY obvious that developers just started making EVERYTHING like this (the SAME WAY) because they are tired of building a well made foundation around the ideas they come up with. Its SO easy to create a game where you have the player just SMASH a button and KILL everything around them as OPPOSED to actually developing a COMPLEX system around these things. Developers are just interested mostly in profit now and this new era of gamers enable these people to keep taking advantage of them and EVERYBODY else. If someone enjoys this style of gameplay then FINE No problem because EVEN I DO on certain days. But you cant JUST make EVERYTHING like that and expect people NOT to notice substance being lost from this. Especially when the implementation of the style is NOT even anywhere close to being as GOOD as the original concepts they are based upon. It just results in something that doesn't feel right and becomes overly complicated for no reason as well. I mean I STILL DON'T get why ATB was even included in the FF7R since the original system of Active Time Battle was DESIGNED in and of itself TO BE something that adds REAL TIME elements to a TURN BASED RPG system. Whereas the remake is ALREADY a REAL TIME action based combat system. Its JUST STUPID! Even more in how it works, especially since you can ALREADY attack your opponent without the thing being FULL and DEAL damage enough to KILL them. Its like they just marketed the THING "WE NEED ATB!" so that they could pander to original fans who still were foolish enough to think that Square could still do anything DECENT after all this time. Ive been on the fence about the LOGIC in that since BEFORE the game was released and I couldn't believe how many people (despite the garbage classic mode too further contradicting there ever NEEDING to be an ATB meter) couldn't see ANY fallacy in it. I don't know why people think companies like Square enix is doing them some kind of favor by making a REALLY HUGE game series broken down in to episodic parts even when the company is still charging 60 bucks an episode. Its INSANE! As if Square Enix couldn't just take another several years, hire a BIGGER crew and build a WHOLE GAME for everyone to PLAY in a single shot. They said that the problem with FF15 and KH3 release and why it took so long is because they kept changing engines and was even building ONE while developing with it at the same time. Finally at the end of FF15 development they said that they would NEVER do it again and with KH3 release they settled on UNREAL4 and regretted not just doing this in the first place. So doesn't it kinda invalidate their ENTIRE argument for releasing FF7R episodically? A game Fragmented and BROKEN down into a WHOLE bunch of parts? This kind of thing is why more people should be more attentive to whats going on and also what they are spending their money on.
I think most people generally enjoy action-oriented games more than turn-based ones because they offer more of an instant adrenaline rush versus the delayed gratification of the latter. Out of the most popular games today, I can only think of a handful of franchises with turn-based gameplay such as Pokemon, Hearthstone, and Civilization.
I think the people who like turn-based games enjoy strategy, planning, problem-solving, and critical thinking moreso than those who don't. Not to say that action games don't incorporate these elements, but they're certainly not at the center as they're more focused on engaging timing, precision, and pattern recognition.
If people say the genre is outdated or simplistic, it's because they're not paying attention to it as a whole. Look at a developer like Larian Studios who have worked on the Divinity games and most recently Baldur's Gate 3 which is in early access. They have constantly been evolving with each iteration. I dare them to play an Original Sin game and then come back and say the same thing. It's a different matter if they find the gameplay boring. As I said earlier, I don't think most people like to engage in the skills required for the genre.
There are more examples out there. They could do the same with a franchise like Pokemon but I don't think they've wanted to disrupt the formula that has brought them success. Also, it seems like jrpgs in general have gradually been stepping away from turn-based combat. It's probably due to a decline in interest in the genre, or perhaps to appeal more to a western audience. Maybe both.
Anyway, solid video and production. You deserve more subscribers so here is one more.
I love your take man!! Comments like these is why i love making videos, thanks for the sub hopefully i see more of your comments soon
@@ItsJustAGameSuscribeNow I'm definitely gonna check out your other vids. Keep up the awesome work!
Same, I hate Turn based Rpgs, But There are some exceptions like Persona 5 and Yakuza:Like a Dragon . These games come with a mixture of not being cliché fantasy rpgs and having a good battle system , Like In Persona , Unlike other rpgs , Stat buffs and debuffs matter a lot which puts diversity Into the battle instead of the usual, attack , attack, attack, and Sometimes good worldbuilding and story is enough to motivate me even if I dont like battle systems.
And some Other games have a mix of Good story and fun battles, Like Golden Sun with the camera constantly Shifting around or chrono trigger where there Are only a few tailor made battles every few dungeons Meaning you dont get interrupted every 3 seconds and the battles Actually Have some thought put into them
I mean there are genres other than action and turn based lol
@Driano Most of this talk of 'turn based rpgs' and 'outdated' and 'turn based rpgs vs action rpgs' completely omits western made games or only includes specific, highly popular ones on consoles.
People in these arguments have never touched one of Larian's games.
I think you've made a similar mistake though. People don't always play ESPECIALLY RPGs for their combat systems. Western 'action RPGs' are a perfect example. Universally western made action RPGs are criticized for their poor combat gameplay. It's not the combat or adrenaline that brings people in or keeps them playing.
on consoles where JRPG releases tend to be focused games are often much more combat focused, so in that context this sort of argument makes a lot more sense. But these arguments often make little sense when discussing Western made RPGs or PC oriented RPG releases in general (as PC focused Japanese releases often differ greatly from console oriented ones.).
I like turn based rpgs when things are more fast pased and you don't have to watch a 30 second animation for every attack
That’s honestly one of my biggest gripes with FFX over the other older ones. After hearing the PC port had speed up options but the console ones didn’t really makes the slow nature of it’s combat shine, especially in the late game when enemies are damage sponges at time. Also the ATB gauge system in FFIV, FFVII, etc. Act to mitigate some of the slower animations by giving you something else to do with your time, navigating menus while animations played which I really enjoy. It’s a nice blend between true turn based and action
@@Sleppyrobloxirrelevant opinion
I tried so desperately hard to like turn based RPGs. But i dont get it. Why do i need to get yanked into a weird arena because i stumbled upon a little enemy mouse. Why do i have to plan my moves out, just let me swing and block.
Even back in SNES days, Chrono Trigger made it so there wasn't a separate arena. Was mind blowing the first time I encountered an enemy. Fought them right on the same screen I was on before battling, and they just died while I continued on.
I think Persona games are really good with this as well. Pokemon is trying with Scarlet and Violet, but for lots of other reasons, people don't like those 2 pokemon games that much. Still. There's no arena. Just straight up Pokemon boxing each other while wild Pokemon and NPCs walk by
This to me is a very weird hang up to have about any RPG (turn based or action based). You already need to suspend your disbelief for the entire game to even buy into whatever fantasy or sci-fi made up universe you’re in, but the screen transition/enemy avatars are the thing that stops you from enjoying the game?
Very weird to me. I don’t disagree that it’s annoying, but it in no way affects my enjoyment of the story or characters or world building whatsoever.
Also “just let me swing and block” is fine in a solo game experience, but when you also have allies and the game is balanced to account for AI party members, but you can’t directly control them; their decision making is questionable at best in certain scenarios and you rely on it to win. You can “change their tactics” in some games but that doesn’t automatically shift all responsibility onto your critical thinking skills or problem solving abilities. You’re hoping your AI allies just…do the right thing.
This annoys me most in games that are action oriented but are still bound to RPG systems like leveling and stats, where your skill can only take you so far. Action games should not be blended in with turn based RPG elements at all. It’s a strange redundancy that seems avoidable. Why do I need stats if I’m playing an action game? Very weird to me.
Clearly Action RPGs are more popular nowadays, but I do love my good old FF, Golden Sun, Legend of Dragoon turn based.
too bad golden sun went downhill
clearly more popular does not equate to better however.
@@paulmiller7838 so how can you tell if a game is better?
There are many new turn based games you should try though. I haven't played them myself yet or only the demo version but they seem very fun and creative. The Trials series seems to be perfectly kicking and alive and I will definitely give it a try. Fairy Fencer F has a similar system and great visuals as long as you don't mind Anime style characters and lots of fan service. And generally a story that doesn't take itself too seriously. Octopath Traveler I and II have a combat system that I personally would consider peak turn-based. And the visuals and sound are simply amazing. Eiyude Chronicles will be released this year an does seem to have a lot of potential. Final Fantasy Remake seems to have the best hybrid system between real time and turn-based. As a FF7 fan I wil definitely get it. Though I first have to buy a new gaming pc before I can even think about playing it >_
Better and fun is very subjective though. If you need an guideline for what could be good though, a game that is very popular and appreciated by the majority of fans of a genre is still the best reference. @@paulmiller7838
it's subjective .. I love turn based rpgs more than action rpgs
Turn based: select your attack from a menu.
Action: Select your attack from a controller
@@Aaron-mj9ie wut.
Nerd
@Triple6 Clique We can look at turn-based and say it plays the same as any other turn-based.
Aaron I mean, turn based still uses a controller lol
the only problem for me with turn based rpg's is the time commitment they require too much time to complete, I had 150 hours into Octopath Travel and only beat 1 character story and not to mention the constant feeling of being under levels or feeling like your stretching your resources thin and have to go and grind for hours and hours to prepare for a fight
Bravely Default and The Legend of Heroes titles are some of my favorite turn based games. Bravely Default plays kinda like old ff with a twist on the gameplay to give the player more freedom. Legend of Heroes was really refreshing to play as well since its gameplay stands out with arts and crafts, but also having fantastic worldbuilding, characters, and story.
completely agree, those titles are my favourite turn-based ones, too
As long as Trails exists, turn based games are superior
@@hylianheadache5856 If I have a way to explain Trails, it is that warm feeling of being human. That's how trails makes me feel tbh.
Trails games are a godsend
There’s nothing wrong with variety. I enjoy both.
@lazy guy only you not
Turn base takes away from "variety". Linear turn base existed at one point because of tech limits. Now we do it on purpose. Turn based linear games are trash.
@@Silent_Shadow what do you mean by "linear"?
Yeah really depends on the game and characters. Still haven’t beat it but I loved persona 5s combat
Still trash
I was kinda the opposite with action rpgs. They just weren’t as fun for me until I played Xenoblade 2. I love turned-based rpgs and tactical rpgs, but Xenoblade 2 completely changed my view on action rpgs. I had always thought of them as mindless button mashers but Xenoblade 2 has actually strategic gameplay that makes it super fun.
Xenoblade is not fully action based RGP though... it is more like time-skill based RPG, like in FF XII
Actually it is a modified version of FF XII battle system
@@altairscauldron9776 this
That's not an action rpg. lol
i dont want to be that guy but dark souls is far from mindless and everything that spawned from it is pretty amazing
I find playing Chess with a snail or watch a paint dry rather thn play Turnbased Combat games.
For health reasons I can't play a lot of action RPGs, they tend to demand a lot of fast inputs and my hand just can't do it. So I really love Jrpg's and the way I can have some challenges, some good story, and play a good game even with this hand of mine.
I think turn based works well with strategy rpg because it requires thinking than just using a move per turn like turn based rpg's. It's like playing ping pong digitally without having any strategy and I think it's the reason why people get so burnt out of playing turn based rpg.
Hell yea strategy and planing is what makes rpgs good, I cant stand games where the actions you take have little to no risks
Get burnt out playing turn based JRPGs**
The majority of western 'turn based RPGs' since the late 80s have used basically the same style of combat you're associating with strategy RPGs.
@@7dayspking the squaresoft/enix turn based games are the only bad ones combat wise
There are other jrpgs with really great combat
@@Azure9577 People like different kinds of combat, but most JRPGs have and do use the squaresoft&Enix style of Turn based combat.
Older Turn-based Western RPGs(1980s) Varied. A lot of them had first person JRPG like turn based combatyou see early Dragon Quest, the others had top down or isometric grid based Turn based combat more like a 'tactical' JRPG or chess. With a physical grid & rigid movements.
Newer Western RPGs(1990s & onwards) dropped the grid & use systems like 'action points'. Movement, actions & aiming is more freeform like Valkyrie profile or a real time strategy game rather than rigid like chess.
The Western equivalent of the 'ATB' system would be 'RTwP' (real time with pause), RTwP RPGs play just like Real-time strategy games.
@@7dayspking Square Enix/soft created the atb system which Is not used in any other rpgs i can think of
I personally like the ap, turn order, grid based and RTwP systems
I dont hate the genre. As an action-RPG enjoyer, i can see the huge appeal of turn base combat. The moment a player master the environment, mechanic and strategic aspect of the battle, he turned into a goddamn deity able to predict the entire game, much like a chess game.
But i still cannot fathom the idea of playing by waiting to take beating in turns XD
Personally, my biggest gripe with most turn based games is just the nature of the system itself.
I just can't fathom just standing there and letting someone attack me. Not being able to move or block before hand just frustrates me to no end. I realize not all games are like this, but it's the pause/play nature of it. It needs to be continuous. It doesn't have to be flashy and super violent, it just need to not stop to let me figure out what to do next. That's something I'd be figuring out 2 moves ago. Planning ahead?
Oh and the part about not being able to focus on the story while in combat, I mean speak for yourself on that on that one. I can perfectly interpret what's going on in for example; Killer is Dead or The Last of Us, during combat. Because it's part of the combat. The story is why the combat ensued in the first place. It makes no sense to me for the story to just pause real fast while I fight this one guy.
I mean with this logic, you wouldn't be able to listen to someone telling a story in the passenger seat of your car while driving, or even interpret news or what song is on the radio without taking your hands off the wheel, or looking at the person or radio.
There are some I'm willing to try, like the Xenoblade series, just for the ultra massive collosal enemies, or even the first 2 Fallouts. But most just turn me off. I'm sure they are great games, but when I play a game, I'm trying to relax from a day at my BS job, not trying to solve for Pi.
Also, some action rpgs or shooters, racing, etc do require a great level of skill with timing and strategy, just in different ways. Like all fighting games. They are by no means "button mashers." You must have damn there lightning reflexes to even git gud at any of them. They appear to be button mashers because of the amount of buttons you have to press to perform a certain move, which also has to be timed perfectly, or it just doesn't work. There's a lot of satisfaction in knowing it's your fault and not the game crunching some numbers just to determine if you missed or not, failed to block or not, or have the chance to parry.
If you go into any boss battle in LOZ: Breath of the Wild button mashing, you will be swiftly dealt with. Same goes for Rainbow 6, If you go in guns blazing, you will be killed almost immediately if the other team isn't absolute trash. Racing games require more skill and reflexes than strategy, but being able to pick a car based on how it drives and not what the stats say can be the difference between a win or loss. You have all the horse power in the world, but if you don't know how to control it, well you won't get anywhere.
A game being turn based doesn't make it boring to me, just frustrating and tedious. I also believe the reason why turn based games were so prevalent in the past was because of hardware limitations. You can spend more rendering and cpu time on everything else if the console doesn't have to keep the controls in sync with the screen, animate it all, and have good col detection. It's just all menus anyway. Most of it is predetermined before you even start the battle, because it is physically impossible for a computer to have RNG. Nothing is ever truly random in any computer program.
I do love me some strategy, but never at the cost of being able to move freely.
Yeah, turn based is mass hysteria at this point...
Wrong
I agree. It’s the reason I highly prefer FFVII remake over the original
People who think turn based is outdated only play the bad turn based games
@@Azure9577 I never said it was outdated. I don't like my skill being determined by numbers. There are a few turn based games that I will play. But that's because there are other things about the game that I like. Like Wasteland 2 or Shadow Run.
I feel more in control with action. Used to be hardcore turn base. Especially Shadow Hearts. But in action, cause I'm running and dodging I have a better chance of beating an overpowered enemy without having to grind that much. Turned base I be having to grind and still lose to one shots I cant avoid
yea my biggest turn of with turn based is grinding to beat a boss then getting smacked lol
Have you tried any Turn based games that aren't so grindy or that have more player driven, strategic combat systems so that what happens is actually in your control?
@@7dayspking Can you give some examples
My take: I love turn-based games. As someone else mentioned, turn-based systems provide greater reward to folks who really dig strategy & planning... because they tend to give you time to plan, or at the very least break what is happening into easily digestible chunks of time. Related to that, I've never felt like I have the best reflexs or reaction time... when I play action games (which I also enjoy, just to be clear), I tend to still strategize, often around where I can avoid having to rely on my reflexes.
Also of mention: I'm old-school. My first exposure to turn-based systems was Final Fantasy Legend on the gameboy, which got me tuned into the other FF games (yes, I know FFL is technically part of the SaGa series, but I didn't know that when I was 8 :p), and from there JRPGs & turn based RPGs in general. I think you're early exposure to Pokemon is somewhat telling... because I've always found Pokemon to be sub-par... it was always clearly designed to be entry level for younger players, and given where *I* started always felt like it was on training wheels.
I also think that the tendency for series of games to move from being turn-based to action/real-time is in part driven by real-time systems being more technically interesting, and having a higher innate cool-factor... despite not being better games. Primary callout here being Final Fantasy, but also the initial hook of the entire Tales series & all the Real Time with Pause games that descend from Baldur's Gate. Which BTW, I can just barely stand both Tales games & RTwP... because I find them extremely difficult to play. They end up being the worst (playble) combination possible of both action & turn-based... where they try & give you all the strategic options of a turn-based game but the player is unable to capitalize them because time is NOT broken up into easily digestible chunks that allow for planning. IMO the old Active Time Battle system from Squaresoft games was a much better approach keep things explicitly turn based but add in a timing element to hustle along the truly slow decision makers.
Finally, for those like It's Just A Game who want to dip their toes into the turn-based arena to see what they've been misisng, here are my personal top 5 recommendations:
* Chrono Trigger - heaps of style, lots of cool combat abilities, and the juxtaposition of the combination skills + the ATB system greatly alleviates any sense of wait or boredom. Plus it's a freaking classic and you are missing out.
* Final Fantasy 6: A good combination of accessible & interesting for a classic turned based experience. Also had the ATB system like Chrono Trigger, so it has that cheat as well. FF6 stands out in that while (like all the FF games) you can win most combats by just selecting 'fight' over & over, they start you off with a variety of other options for novelty sake. The one to try to see if you really can't stand classic turn-based JRPGs.
* Into the Breach: NOT a JRPG, and an interesting take on turn-based grid tactics.
* Divinity: Original Sin 1 & 2: Turns up the tactical elements of turn based games to the max... with all sorts of ridiculous combos between abilities & environment. If you don't like to strategize, you ARE going to hate this game. Possibly overwhelming in the options they give, particularly the D:OS2... which becomes almost easy after you start to exploit all of the combos it allows.
* Slay the Spire: I have played more hours of this game than any other game ever. This game has created it's own genre, with as of yet no copy-at managing to outshine the original
Nerd
I personally hate the atb system
Another I recommend is
*The legend of heroes: trails series
*persona series
man what you call ''stratigie'' is actually just math, and math sucks
My first traditional JRPG was Final Fantasy Legend III on Gameboy. It was really well done considering the limitations of the Gameboy.
The whole "it's outdated" argument annoys me I game my way and they game their way don't try to shame me for enjoying something the way I want it this isn't directed at you It's just a game just saying.
Yeah real-time and turn-based combat have been around a equally long time.
@@BlueisNotaWarmColour yeah that's why I don't get the argument how it's outdated.
@@drinkyourtea I think the reason is the old well known fact "games on those years (90´s) have to be complicated to get the people more time playing it, if don´t they just finish it on a very short time" wich well, I understand, dosen´t make sense but listen up.....or read instead...
For example me, I don´t like turn based RPG´S, and not because I say it, I gave a try to multiple old school RPG´s, FF7, FF3, Golden Sun and Chrono Trigger, I even played the Demo of Dragon Quest 11. The story and feels that an RPG gives are amazing, specialy on those games but again, I got "face to face" with the turn based combat mechanic, wich is boring for me, understandable, no harm and no hate, I just don´t like them, period.
The fact that´s "outdated" makes non sense, yes, it still there and on a really good position, my point is that most of people say that its slower, another example with me, the one turn-based RPG I reeeally loved were the Mario and Luigi series, just for one miserable fact...I can move and dodge the enemy´s attack, If a boss battle was complicated was because I don´t have the ability, level or objects to fight it. Just that.
Now imagine a lot of people out there thinking that was outdated, maybe its just some points of the gameplay that need to include or add to make it more enjoyable and open to more public.
The turn based combat is great, I know that without liking it, but maybe needs little changes to get to more people or even, "not dissapear".
example, the platforms, running on walls, long junmps etc. Some stuff like that, just little changes, not keeping it on "random" or should I say, not just relying on statistics. Maybe add some skill of your own.
Have a great day man.
@@dngames1001 not saying games have to stay the same though I mean you can innovate even within realms like say survival horror with fixed camera angles but nobody is looking to innovate there anymore which kind of makes me sad since I enjoy it for what it is.
It's not necessarily that they have to be complicated but that I enjoy playing the game.
There are much more engaging forms of turn based now like Divinity Original Sin 2, XCOM, Xenoblade Chronicles (kind of). I think people are talking about games like Dragon Quest, older FF games, and Pokemon when they say turn based is outdated.
I enjoy both turn based and action rpgs, sometimes it's nice to chill out playing something turn based. I've played some great turn based jrpgs. The original FFVII if you can get past the dated visuals is an excellent turn based jrpg, with a great musical score, definitely worth sticking with. Lost Odyssey is another that springs to mind, an awesome story with some great written memory sequences. I've recently just started an infamous turn based jrpg, which is said to be very challanging due to the dungeon designs and grind that's involved. Phantasy Star II but i hear Phantasy Star IV is the best in the series. But again it'll be a case of whether you enjoy old school graphics and game design.
Lost odysey and FFVII are two of my favourite games. Great stories man.
I'm glad you started with PSII, that way you're more likely to appreciate what an incredible upgrade PSIV was. I hope you try it.
@@keithbeard5337 That's my intention eventually.
See this is what everyone seems to repeatedly get wrong about FF7. It's NOT turn-based. It's an ATB. Both sides have timers, and once the timer is up for an individual character, that character can attack. If you take too long deciding what to do, your opponent can attack twice because unlike conventional turn-based games, FF7 doesn't wait on you.
@@squeezyjibbz7407 Because i never took that long, i never even noticed there was a timer to the battle mechanics.
Honestly, I love both systems.
Turn based has you think out your moves to overcome a challenging foe. Almost like a question and a response.
Action combat is usually more satisfying and forces you to think fast and focus. Giving an instant adrenaline rush.
I do hope that in the future games will give you the option for turn based or action to suit your play style, it also gives the game replay value as you can trying fighting from a new perspective.
I think a good game to point turn based combat though would be the Mario & Luigi series, as it has turn based combat,but also has a mix, with it not being full turn based, with you being able to block and hit enemies attacks
are you talking about that mario game on gba, thank gosh that someone said that its a great turn base game rpg.
why must it be underated
@@manlyman7135 yea that’s what I’m talking about and I agree to, they are far underrated
@@manlyman7135 Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga is one of my favorite games of all time and one of my most fondest gaming memories ever. I loved the mix or turn based gameplay and timing to attack and dodge. It made the game more unique and engaging. Plus, the puzzles and story were great as well
That's the only game that ever had me falling in love with turn based games.
My biggest gripe with turn-based combat is how damm long literally every single action takes, including the animations for everything, simple things like taking care of two low level mobs feels like eternity compared to real-time action rpgs, and god the f***ing random encounters that are just there to waste time if you're not grinding. Take Like a dragon for example, i watched a lets play of it (because there's no way in hell i am gonna buy a shitty persona clone with a Yakuza coat of paint) and beating a bunch of mob enemies there legit takes LONGER than just beating the shit out of them normally like the rest of the series in the franchise.
I don't think people make random encounters anymore lol.
I got a feeling that the people who disliked are the ones who just came to do so without actually watching the whole video.
I disliked because he didn’t point out FFX’s story flaws.
@@contineus999hungry still better than some modern rpg’s stories
@@antzinmypantz7853 examples? Divinity sin 2 and tales of series are pretty dope, heck even tho ff 13 has a weird story and stupid characters they’re still more entertaining and likable than the heroes of zanarkand.
The title’s in quotations, so it should be clear that it isn’t a hate video
I mean you could say that
I m here to read to comment and to know different opinions soo
Thing is, there were 'tons' of them in Japan, because they were based on Wizardry and similar games, to a large degree (nota bene, Wizardry is a 'huge' series there, it received dozens of JP-exclusive spin-offs). I feel that this genre also fits better there, in a way - long commuting, lots of patience needed to get through the day... so, you just whip out a console/phone and start playing. In the US, the land of the car, it's obviously different. Europe is kinda in-between; I feel we prefer PC RPGs, but some tactical RPGs etc. are also popular, so it's a mixture of many approaches.
First turn based RPG I played was Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door. I loved back then and thought the combat was fun. For some reason in my teen years I was actively avoiding turn based RPGs in favor of action RPGs. That all changed when I stumbled upon Persona 4 Golden for the Vita. I feel in love with the combat in that game. When back to play P3 and eventually older FF games. Currently playing Trails series and I’m having a blast
If you want a nice balance between the combat mechanics of Pokemon and FFX, I recommend Voice Of Cards. A lot of people mistaken it for a card game, but it is JRPG combat through and through with the visuals and display handled by dealing cards. You get dealt the same skill cards every time, so you can continuously cast heals/buffs as one character, while others set up other kinds of buffs, debuffs, attacks, etc.. It's nowhere as deep as FFX for it's combat or it's story, but it still rose into my top 5 JRPGs. Voice of cards 2 came out only 4 months after the first one cause there is just 1 voice actor (the Narrator) and the whole game uses static art and a board piece to handle movement. I personally would love more games to do what it did to tell amazing stories without needing 2+ years just for making graphical models.
Turn based combat is just inherently less enjoyable for me
As an old ass dude who grew up on PS1 era turn based JRPGs, I realized they do feel like a relic of a time pretty recently. I still enjoy my share of them (I hadn't picked one up since the PS3 days until Persona 5 and DQXI, which both stand as great examples of how to do turn-based games today) despite having gone a long dry spell in the genre. When you're 12 and can sit and play these games for hours on end and not care about your time, it's no issue to grind, stock up on magic/items, etc. I prefer my games at 34 to be more easily consumable than most turn-based RPGs are.
Modern takes have fixed this major issue, and many fix random battles as well.
Turn-based RPGs are superior in my view, because you can't just brutalize your way through every battle, or memorize black/roll/slash combos. Turn-based games allow you to think, strategize, and coordinate with other party-members in a way that is much more in-keeping with the real source of the genre - table-top gaming. I love games like Diablo, Skyrim, etc, but being able to really slow down and think your way through an encounter is so much more satisfying to me. Turn-based games also allow for a more cinematic experience - The slower pace gives more room for complex animations and interactions than real--time combat.
BG3 would be a masterpiece if it weren't for turn-based combat. CRPGs back in the 90s anyway and now they do and it makes them feel old in a bad way.
It's literally just D&D and thus a perfect game
If the story is good or if I'm feeling in a smart tactical mood then I'd play a turn based RPG, but I really enjoy real time more
Turn base games are only meant for the 90s and 2000s we need to drop that shit ASAP and fuck with new shit fuck that
My biggest gripe with turn based RPGs are that the battles are usually longer. I think both real time and turn based RPGs have problems with too many battles but it's more obvious in the longer turn based ones
Sounds to me your real gripe is enemy density more than combat length. The two should always be balanced together, though. Longer fights should give more rewards and be less frequent and vice versa.
Ultimately, square changed the genre of their fan cherished series. They should have at least still made the odd new turn based games. But no, they effectively turned their back on a large proportion of their fan base.
Final Fantasy X is the best game I've ever played.
This man has great taste
@@ItsJustAGameSuscribeNow what about persona 5
@@ShehzorNoufalBT12 ye I like turn based rpgs like persona 5, dragon quest, and yakuza like a dragon
@@Shadow1743 exactly except dragon quest because I don't have it
I agree
I think the best way to play a turn-based RPG is by using the fast forward option in an emulator and using an internet guide.
Blasphemy!
I grew up playing turn based JRPG and I love it
Sad that turn based games are dying
I guess younger generation prefer action based over turn based
GREAT Channel name. I've been playing RPGS since Dragon Warrior on the NES and I've always loved them. It's a more relaxed experience. It makes planning much more important then execution, but it also makes the battles feel a little like a board game or a card game.
I have always hated any turn based combat in games especially RPG's, I prefer my games to feel somewhat realistic and there is nothing realistic about turn based combat.
That's not true, games like World of final fantasy achive a more realistic and fastpase combat system with turn order being determined by speed in a way thats timed. So, for instance, if your monster attacks, there's a timer that that monster goes on and once it reaches the end of that timer you can attack with it again. But, if you dont and the opponents timer is also done, then they will attack you without giving you a turn. You'll still be able to attack afterwards, but if you dont before your opponents timer is up again, they will attack you again.
I've always found Action RPGs to be too hectic and chaotic for me.
Maybe I'm just stupid, I dunno, but most of the time I feel immense pressure if the combat isn't turn based. Turn based let's me relax and think, come up with strategies and watch them play out, whereas Action RPGs, everything is on the fly and I personally have a difficult time concentrating.
People say "Oh, in turn based RPGs, you're just mashing the A button over and over until the battle is over", but I actually find that problem in ARPGs. Just mash the attack button over and over, except when you're low on health and then heal, then go back to attacking.
my mind goes into overload when I'm trying to make sense of all the action chaos it makes me lose interest fast
It's so weird to me that people who only played Pokemon have that criticism of the entire mechanic. Like the video says, FFX is what got me hooked into the turn based mechanic as a whole, and as the fights with Yunalesca and Seymour showed me, you can't exactly "press ATK" your way to win. And those were the Story bosses. Yevon help you if you go for optional bosses
FFX is just a masterclass in turn-based. It's beautiful, the story is great, the abilities are neato burrito, and best of all the pacing was planned meticulously which makes it difficult when it needs to be, and gives you relaxing spots when you've just had a rough patch. FFX-2, FFXII, and FFXIII are just.... ugh, hand holding
The stagger system was a mistake. It initially gives this illusion of having so much complexity and variety, but due to how the stagger system functions, there is always one specific way to approach all the bosses, and the entirely linear progression doesn't help one bit.
In comparison, you get so damn much freedom in FF10, it's really mindboogling to think they are from the same company.
My problem of JRPGs is that a lot of them force you to grind exp, to level up a lot of random stats. If you don't you die. In action rpgs some of them have the same system, but a lot of them doesn't force you to farm. You can just play.
'Ys' are great action rpgs while the 'Trails' series are amazing turn based rpgs.
The fact that you wait untill enemy kicks your ass so you can attack him
What a loadofcrap
Great video but bad title.
I'm glad that you like turn based, I know the genre has problems but I feel like people are hating on it without thinking about how its not for them, you don't have to like everything, I'm not a fan of RTSs but I don't think its old and outdated because its to hard to understand or there's not enough action.
I hope in the future people are more open minded like you and give them a try, and not hate on people,genre or games, just because it isn't made for them.
It's supposed to be clickbait that's why there is quotation marks
I used to not really like turn-based RPGs (or RPGs Olin general for that matter). Then I tried Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition and it opened me to a whole new genre. I'm still only 10 hours into it because I want to enjoy it and not rush. I also got Persona 4 Golden on PC to play another RPG as well and its amazing. Both of them have such a great combat system, story and characters imo.
To anyone who just getting into RPGs, I would get Xenoblade first. The combat system features some aspects of Action RPGs and some aspects of Turn-based RPGs. It will help you see which element of the game (action or strategy) you prefer and can help you choose which type of RPGs you want to play. I personally discovered I like both - imo all the aspects of the game are fun. Some people may agree with me, while others may disagree. It's all subjective at the end of the day and the most important thing is that you enjoy the games you play.
Listen to this commenter. Be open-minded and be open to trying new experiences! It really can exceed your expectations!
I've played turn-based RPGs most of my life, and some of them are among my favorite games, but I don't like the battle system, it has always felt to me an outdated holdover from a time where you couldn't have more complex battles without making them turn-based (I also get that part of the appeal of turn-based games is also controlling your whole party.) Also, I hate the excuse that turn-based games can focus more on story, I've played plenty of shitty stories with turn-based rpgs, and plenty of great, detailed stories in action rpgs. The only thing that an action RPG cannot currently recreate is fighting as a team of people instead of one person.
@Dawn Razor most don't, but I don't see why an action rpg couldn't have complex action game mechanics like devil may cry or bayonetta.
I'm a veteran in Turn-based combat, telling you right now. They will never satisfy me as much as an Action-based Combat system will. There's just so much to Action Combat that Turn-based cannot fill in. Besides quick thinking and strategizing on the fly, you also rely on your reflexes, reactions, and awareness. FFX is still one of my favorites, but I will never give it another playthrough. As for pokemon.... I never liked pokemon to begin with.
This isn't a "gotcha" or anything, but how do you feel about Monster Hunter and The Witcher on the highest difficulty? Both require tons of planning before getting into combat the same way turn based mechanics do. I'm just curious about your thoughts, not tryna be a jerk.
I like turn based RPG. I'm still playing Final Fantasy Tactics A2.
It's the same with the "this game is too repetitive" argument.
Every game is repetitive. What matters is how addicting that repetition is. Some people are going to find stimulation in tasks that others won't and vice versa. It's purely subjective.
/thread.
You hit it right on the head
turn based rpgs are only boring, if they don't make you think. And if it doesn't make me think, then that has defeated the purpose of a turn based rpg.
100% agree
I just really desperately want to MOVE when playing turn based RPGs, it’s not that it’s simple, or lacking in substance, but being able to just, feel the game and BE THE CHARACTER really draws me more to the action rpg. And as someone who just really wants to get into the story and plays in easy mode just so I can do that, speeding through the grinding process makes me happy hahaha. Also, I agree, strategy rpgs or turn based rpgs have a much more rewarding victory experience. But I adore strategy in games purely dedicated to strategy, unfortunately rpgs isn’t where I want it. I have been playing bravely default recently though and it’s been pretty cool, wish the mob encounter rate was less but GRINDING IS A THING AAAAAAAAAAA
Also I suck at action rpgs, especially the first hour, the panic levels and button smashing during combat are over the roof 😂.
And one more thing, it’s odd but I am extremely picky about graphics and animation and flow is a major part of how I select the games I play, and so I just love seeing characters move 😂. I enjoy Persona (despite the slightly stiff character models) and Octopath traveler quite a lot, I don’t mind Braverly default but the models just looks a bit off). My standards are high ok I’m sorry, I hope Pokémon fixes their wild area otherwise Imma stick with watching other people play their 3D open world games for now. RANTS OVER ILL LEAVE
I'm glad I stuck around for the rest of the video, because I was disappointed by your statement that turn based RPGs are boring, but it turns out you too have an appetite for deep and rewarding story, as well as the enjoyment of being able to take your time with each move in a battle.
I'm glad you changed your opinion after all!
There's a lot there that people don't realize.
I just subscribed. I was surprised to see that FFX was the game that won you over rather than a more modern indie title (there are great ones) especially considering it's age and its linearity. It's my favorite game of all time and I'm looking forward to your review but I will say that I do agree with the sentiment that these games do reduce gameplay for story but I will always argue its not needed. If the gameplay negatively impacts story then it's either poorly implemented with the story or its actually bad gameplay. My frustrations with turn based rpgs are their often lack of depth and complexity in their combat considering their methodical nature. Pokémon is probably the best example.
Great job with this video. Looking forward to more.
I personally prefer turn based rpg over action rpg...the management and thinking is what makes the game interesting.
dude, is just math, there's no thinking in math, just memorization
Guys,
indie game dev here, and I would love to get your thoughts on these 2 combats system for a party-based cRPG ?
1. An auto-battler where you give general directions and strategies to your party, and more detailed orders to each member before the combat begins (i.e pre-buffs, mage focus on offensive or defensive spells, barbarian tank or rush ranged enemies, use this or that ability, this or that weapon...). Once the combat begins, the player has no control anymore.
2. A RTwP where you actually control precisely only your main character and can give basic orders to other party members (Mount And Blade style, but the combat is not physics based but ability based like cRPGs)
the first one sounds something like SMT Nine
Auto-battlers can be interesting in how you program party members, but it’s hard for it to hold peoples’ interest for long sing battles are, well, automated.
1. I think it will rapidly lose luster when player has seen most what your animations can offer. It should at least offer ability to control strategy during combat, otherwise you might as well autoresolve the battles. Think of it like being a coach of a boxer. While boxer fights, coach has still some input into match. Such managerial work can be quite fun. Watching what is drawn out autoresolve is far less fun.
My problem with turn-based games was usually that there was no meaning to the turns. Most turn-based rpgs back in the day were not exactly masterful toyboxes of tactical options. Instead of "hit button to attack" it was "hit button to open menu, select command, select enemy, confirm, watch animation, wait a bit, watch enemy animation." It essentially amounted to the exact same thing as a mindless button press, just with more steps involved.
Back then, that was all just trying to be D&D. You weren't just scrolling through menus just cause, you were essentially choosing your action and rolling the dice. Some games were more open about that than others (Fallout vs Final Fantasy for example) but until recently, that's what turn based was all about.
Turn based games are menu simulators.
Action based with taunting, pause to decide your next guerilla tactics. A perfect game.
Lol baldurs gate
Not perfect but very good game
Final Fantasy 12
final fantasy and persona still lives up to this day
I really can't put into words why I enjoy turn based rpgs. Though most of my favorites are action rpgs, turn based still holds a place in my heart.
I'm grateful, because if I didn't enjoy it I wouldn't be able to enjoy many great rpgs on older systems.
yea I regret not playing turn based RPGS in my childhood but ive grown to appreciate its systems and its influence in the RPG genre. Thanks for the comment!
Turn based rpgs just involve luck and no skill
Try to play Shin Megami Tensei (SMT) series. You can start with SMT 4 or SMT: Strange Journey Redux if you have 3ds. Or you can start with SMT V if you have Switch. Or you can start with SMT 3 Nocturne in PC. SMT series is one of the best turn-based game and worth your time. It's like Pokemon with mature theme and the Dark Souls of JRPGs.
If I wanted turn based combat I’d play D&D or a card game. I play games because I want to feel challenged and to control my character in real-time! I don’t want to watch a CGI character go through a queue of moves for 10 minutes.
I think the one thing I find really annoying about turn RPGs is getting interrupted in the overworld every minute when traveling. The combat also begins to feel repetitive when facing the same monster every time.
That's random encounters, not turn based. It's not like facing the same enemy over and over is any less repetitive in a more action based title, either.
@@Llortnerof Except in a action rpg you can kill that enemy under a second without needing to wait between three 30 second animations.
@@dragonandavatarfan8865 Sometimes. Other times, not so much. And if you're spamming skills with that long animations, the issue probably isn't the game.
@@Llortnerof 1st animation - open world to fight transition (3 seconds), 2nd animation - Only basic attack needed if character already overleveled (3 seconds), 3rd animation of all party members victory posing and battle score screen combined (at least minimum of 6 seconds). Total 12 seconds of animations regardless of the game compared to a minimum of 5 sec it takes to finish a low level enemy in a action rpg, nuff said.
@@dragonandavatarfan8865 Not all games even do a transition. Most Western style RPGs don't, and more recent JPRGs also often eschew them. The victory pose is also not always done and when it is, often skippable.
Also, that's considerably less than the 3 30 second animations you originally claimed. And Action RPGs aren't safe from unskippable animations either; i've spent my sweet time waiting for enemies to actually become attackable because the door won't open until they're dead.
Videos are a higher quality than expected hope your subscriber count goes up!
Hey this means alot thanks for the comment!!!
Nice video. I’m currently 90 hours into YAKUZA: LIKE A DRAGON. Its my first time getting through a Japanese RPG and it’s one of my favorite games so far (I started playing video games in 2019). DISCO ELYSIUM Final Cut got me playing games again when it released on PS4 this year. I want to play more RPGs with narratives that satisfy in the same ways good book & an HBO series can. The next RPG I’m excited to play is Xenosaga.
I like both, but I prefer Action Real time Combat a bit more. It’s more engaging and more thrilling, and besides you’re doing more with the characters rather than just select actions through menus.
Good job on the video!
FFX is my favorite FF personally. The music has full access to my heart strings.
I think that turn based RPGs have much more strategy, compared to how you can basically beat any action RPG by button-mashing alone. Turn based combat also can be made on a lower budget while also having a more complex and in-depth strategy to it.
I would like to see you button mashing in dark souls and elden ring then lmao. You are overgeneralizing that all action RPGs always result in button mashing which is entirely false.
@@lapsedilationdrive3943yeah but those games are way more limited compared to turn based combat. You can’t have any party members.
I love turn-based RPGs. It's a shame Square Enix has abandoned this with more modern Final Fantasy games. I played FFXV and made it about three chapters in before giving up on it. I just couldn't get invested in the battle system and the story wasn't good enough to make me want to continue it. But I love FFX and it really pleases me that this was the game that changed your mind on turn-based RPGs. Final Fantasy games had been great up to this point, but they really nailed the turn-based formula regarding strategy with FFX, and it goes even deeper than what you mentioned here. It's excellent that each character is different (as you mentioned, such as Wakka being good against flying enemies, Auron being good against shielded enemies, Lulu being good against elemental enemies, etc.), and you can swap them in mid-battle, which really gives great justification for having an entire team instead of having a team of seven people with you but only getting to use three or four in combat at any given time. Plus, turn order matters, and it gives you a list on the side of the next five or so turns and whose turn it will be. Actions you perform can give you an extra action before the enemy attacks again or it can cause you to lose an action if what you're doing is particularly powerful. All of this goes into the strategy involved in turn-based fighting. As I said earlier, they really nailed down the formula for turn-based fighting with FFX.
FFX is Literally one of the best turn based RPGs of all time.
Shin megami tensei
When I was a kid I had other kids try to tell me I was a "nerd" for liking Final Fantasy games...until FF7 came out. Then for some reason people liked it but the old games were "still for nerds" Funny thing is I never saw FF7 as a great game. Good...yes. Successful...without a doubt can't argue with sales numbers. But it's actually one I come back to the least.
I don’t enjoy action cause it’s too fast paced and rushed to the point where I don’t have enough time to enjoy it. Turn based actually gives me time to think and strategize to big brain outplay my opponents, so it feels rewarding.
I fully understand with the action rpg genre and believe me I love the turn rpg but while it’s satisfying to plan out your movesets and increase or change stats it is also very satisfying to absolutely destroy a enemy with precise dodges and parries, I’ve come from a Dark souls/Bloodborne background.
I feel the same. I prefer turn based battles over action.
Yall are boring lol
@@death24314 frfrfrfrfr
@@death24314 “too fast paced” lol
The people who hate on turn-based rpgs, are the same ones that ironically buy Pokémon games.
If you’re looking for a whacky/serious turn based RPG then I’d suggest “Yakuza 7:Like a Dragon”
Ive heard of that will definitely give it a look thanks!
@@ItsJustAGameSuscribeNow no problem!
I myself prefer turn based combat because it's more chill and I can take my time... Also strategy instead of good timing and reaction.
But as a great fan of RPGs, AND as a developer who's working on a turn based jRPG right now, I can tell that a lot of games doesn't really do it right. Pokémon, one of the most famous turn based games doesn't really have much strategy if you're not competitive.
It's basically: get level, get stronger type. This way things start to get bland, slow, repetitive.
But people don't complain about chess or checkers or card games, do they?
I'm starting Chrono Trigger and finishing Mother 3 and I've seen first hand how a little bit of action helps.
In Mother 3 you have the Health Slider that falls gradually letting you heal if you take mortal damage, and the sound battle system;
Chrono Trigger has spatiality and recharging time, both highly strategical,
UNDERTALE, deltarune and Inner Voices (the game I'm working on) can tell stories during the battle just fine without losing momentum because the attacks require action, so the time spent with text lets you chill for a bit...
And I'm experimenting with more dynamic attacks, like, the player playing a "mini-game" to execute the attack properly (if you want to hit someone with an arrow you might have to aim)
What most jrpgs that I've seen, and probably the general public as well, do is have a handful of text as you'd do in tabletop RPGs. But as it's written text it likes dynamic, emotion, so it becomes a chore.
And then there's the expectation management; if you're fighting a dragon to save the world, with HEAVY rock playing but the game is slow as a snail, it feels like it's dragging.
In Earthbound when you fight the sanctuary guardians instead of an epic orchestra, a very chill music plays letting you focus 100%. If I'm playing chess, for example, I will rather listen to some classical or calm music.
And then the failure of some gets projected onto the genre itself.
You looked at any western RPGs, especially on the PC (where turn based RPGs are more popular.)??
You had me in the first half ngl
I like both types. The difference is im good with action rpgs while i suck at traditional rpgs
turn based rpgs are great, critical thought turn based games like xcom are incridible
In theory turn based game allow you more time for strategy & planning, but in reality most people just spam the ability with the highest damage and you can win this way in most turn based games. In most FF games you can win fights with this "strategy" and only need planning in a few (side) bosses.
Just because FF allow spamming doesn't mean that turn based games dont have the ability to be strategic look at the Shin Megami Tensei Series or Persona if you play on hard mode and just spam your strongest attacks you will just die to finish the game you will need to use the press turn system bring to battle the right demons/personas and debuff and buff and use status effects you should try it one day
The Yakuza series would like to talk to you
Turn based ruins good story games, turn based is not fun, turned based is boring. U gotta be a real real nerd to still enjoy turn based at this day and age. IMO
Turn based game is not for all type of gamers. But surely it is for smarter people.
I also don't prefer turn based combat unless the game is offering great story or cast or gameplay design......
They are too tedious and simple....
You just have to grind and then win...
The only turn based combat I loved was divinity original sin 2 which actually made me think instead of just attack or guarding as most turn based do...
But I also had to drop it because it was a little too hard for me....
I'm actually sick of action rpgs, every rpg franchise is going the action route. As a result games are all becoming the same and becoming generic.
I like turn based rpgs but they have to have interesting mechanics and not just be a your turn, my turn kinda thing. It's the main reason I fell out of love with pokemon because it's been the same for 20 years. If I'm gonna play a turn based game it's gotta be doing something more than just your turn, my turn. Like how the Trails series has the grid you move around on and the action list. I think a turn based system has to be even more mechanically interesting than an action rpg because they lack that immediate excitement you get from combos and big moves in an action rpg.
Divinity, Kiseki and megami tensei have good turn-based combat. Most of the turn-based combat systems are boring or badly done. The Doragon Kuesuto series is a good example of boring. I've been trying out western turn-based games after trying divinity. Do you have any recommendations?
I liked the combat till azure but I don’t like the coldsteel 1 combat feels clunky
@@tillow9511 It did feel more clunky and restricted but I overall liked the combat in the first 3 Cold steel games. The story of those 4 games was horrible though. Rean is one of the worst protagonists I've ever seen.
FF-10 was the LAST great classic FF JRPG 😔
I love Turn based rpgs still , Even working on my one
I am a big fan of strategic gameplay and have loved turn-based RPGs since I first played Dragon Warrior (Dragon Quest 1) on the NES in 1990. I enjoy action RPGs as well if I'm in the mood for something immersive and responsive, but I like the tactical challenge that favors turn-based games too. Action may be more popular and it feels like it always has been, but I don't think turn-based RPGs are in danger of dying out since there is still a lot of love for them today and not just from gamers that grew up in the 80s and 90s.
I hates turn based games in general. But then I slip and tripped into a puddle of Xcom 2
Now its my favourite genre XD
This was me with final fantasy 10
Bruh how?? I tried Xcom before and I still got bored of it, am I missing something? I guess I'm just not into turnbase games
@@archerboy7922
Its like monster hunter world for people that hated the earlier portable games.
You just play that one game and the genre just clicks.
I can see gears tactics to doing that for other people who like easier less complex games doing what xcom did to me
You definitely needs to try "The Legend of Heroes" and "Ys" by Falcom. Both of those series are great. Kuro no Kiseki is the first "Legend of Heroes" game that will be both Turn-based and Action-RPG at the click of a button.
At least that's a company where we can be confident that they know how to pull off both.
Don’t you mean the Dragon Slayer series not the Legend of Heroes series?
If people think turn-based games are boring, they have the attention span of a goldfish and need to slow down and relax a little in life.
Nah, I'd rather play sekiro NG+ than any turned based game (apart from undertale). Anything is more engaging and fun than turned based combat.
I really love this. When I had a love/hate relationship with turn-based RPG over Action RPG. I needed to understand why I hated Turn-based games and loved Action RPG. I'm more in love of the aspects of a story going on during a combat over waiting Idle for 10 minutes just to click buttons to have my turn ruined or countered. Then given story. Omori, Pokémon, Persona, FF10 has brung me back to the old ways I use to play and I'm grateful for it. I'm now waiting for a Game called Honkai Star Rail that is turn-based. I think somehow getting a break between both worlds of Action and Turn-Based is Healthy. Thank you so much for reassuring this for me
I don't really enjoy turned based. rpg's because I just don't have a lot of fun with them. I think its just the grinding. I like to play a game were im always having fun. But its not really fun when you have to spend like over 100 hours to complete the game. But im not saying the genre is bad, just i dont like to play them.
yea i completely understand where your coming from. I would recommend games like dragon quest, Pokémon, and final fantasy 10, however if u want to 100% those games it might take 60+ hours but if you just run through the story it should take you like 30 or less. Thanks for the comment!
Do you have an issue with turn based gameplay in general? If your problem was the grinding, that's likely more to do with the specific games you tried. If your issue isn't fundamentally with turn based gameplay, there might actually be plenty of games and RPGs you might enjoy.
I understand but I've never played a JRPG in which I had to grind to get to the next part of the game. Honest. Most JRPGs give you enough tools to deal with the situation you need to face. Its just that it can be difficult to figure out an strategy with the resources you already have. Grinding is easier and that's why a lot of people do it or think its necessary. Which is fine, is another way or playing but I usually repeat it until I come up with a way to win that one boss battle and the satisfaction is really great for me. I've only grinded when it comes to optional, harder content and even then I'm not mindlessly leveling up, I'm gaining new skills that will affect how I play the game in a lot of ways. That's satisfying in and of itself. For example, I'm trying to beat the demifiend in Digital Devil Saga 1, which is considered to be one of the hardest bosses in the entire JRPG genre by some people, and it does require a lot of grinding ngl, but the skills you get in the way make it feel fresh and satisfying because you get a lot of abilities that make you feel powerful. Similar feeling to metroidvania games when you get a lot of upgrades and such.
@@arielcerecer142 'I never played a JRPG where I had to grind to progress, honest'
No. The more of them you've played, the lower the chances you're being honest.
Many popular JRPGs employ both random battles and random item drop tables. Both are grinding and artificially take up significant amounts of a player's time on their first playthrough.
Also putting challenges in front of players a significant portion of them are unlikely to overcome without grinding isn't an 'option'. That's forced grinding and as you've admitted another common artificial time user in many JRPGs. The less experienced players are, the more severe the impact of these systems. Which serves as very good justification to call these JRPGs tedious, grinding, repetitive etc.
Yes, sure, great. For you the grind is justifiable and you enjoy it. Doesn't stop it being a grind, doesn't make these games any less tedious for other players. Your enjoyment doesn't remove the tedium clearly many others are experiencing.
It's as I said earlier. There are plenty of alternatives to grindy JRPGs among turn based games. So those who are open to turn based combat systems don't need to be turned off by tedious games.
@@7dayspking I see your point, I dont agree with it entirely though. I mean, my true point was that most JRPGs give you the tools to overcome challenge with your characters as they are. No grinding required and you essentialy just replied with "nah man, you are probably lying". And yes, me not minding grinding because of the progression is subjective as most things are. I'm not trying to say it's fun for everybody. It has its ups and downs and I realize it's not for everybody. But I don't agree that it's objectively bad. I find games like uncharted very boring because the gameplay isnt interesting for me. The story either. But I will never say it's a bad, bland game.
It depends on the game. FF games are very grindy and the systems they implement and gameplay does not make it up for me personally, but games like DDS are built in a way that makes the grind a lot more pleasant. But overall I agree, grinding is a very hit or miss kind of aspect of JRPGs. In fact, I dont like it, hence why I dont do it. The one exception being DDS1. But I truly haven't played a JRPG that actually forced me to stop dead on my tracks and take time to grind levels or skills or whatever and progress into the story. Its kind of like playing Halo 2 on legendary with all skulls on. It's not fun, very unfair and frustrating, but some people may enjoy the sheer ridiculousness of the optional challenge, and I dont think that hurts Halo 2's quality. Sure, the game would be better with a more refined and fair but challenging hard mode but it doesn't take away the intented experience for the game. It doesn't make it worse. This is just my opinion though.
I bought a game to play it, not watch it that's basically what turn based rpgs are just virtual chess lmao
Ive never beaten a Kingdom Hearts Game and I stopped playing the FF7 remake because I found the combat so boring. I really like planning and strategizing that happens in Turn based RPGs.
Mann i love kingdom hearts its a shame you never finished it. Yea i agree planing a strategy for turned based boss makes winning the fight way more satisfying
pfftt you can't beat kingdom hearts? what a noob
Sounds like you just suck at games. Lol you can absolutely strategize and plan in FF7 Remake. Literally no idea what you're talking about.
I love Kingdom Hearts in concept, but Sora is just so squishy and underpowered that I get annoyed and end up grinding. I love the game but it's so hard to finish sometimes
I did not thought that some people still recognize Battle Network.
I was suck at rpgs at first but because of that it improve my skills in rpg
Good Content My Guy 🔥🔥
I did the opposite way.
always loved turn RPGs with a passion and hated action RPGs.
then FFVII remake proved to me that you actually can build an action rpg system with deep enough strategic components.
that battle system is CRAZY.
It was the first time I actually enjoyed Action RPGs, too. That's because despite being an Action RPG, FFVIIR still places a lot of importance over the type of strategic challenge turn based-rpgs want you to tackle (building, buffing, managing resources) and allows you to get away with not being great at the action-specific challenges (evading, blocking, timing hits); one of the biggest ways this plays in might just be the fact you have three party members you're actively encouraged to juggle -- and they WILL evade, block and time their hits while you're body-swapping and managing buffs. Of course, you can just stay with cloud and spam block-counter if you want, too. That's the beauty of it. Great gameplay.
You should try Xenoblade Chronicles. It also is an action RPG with strategic elements. It's a great game with an amazing story, brilliant characters and a fun combat style once you get the hang of it.
How many times have i seen a trailer for a new game, I get excited, then...it's turn based. I get a feeling that people who like these games, like spending hours looking at spread sheets, and menus. I think this is why I have a problem with deeep survival games: Watch the let's play of them, and jump around to random points in the video, and it's almost always "game play" of menu navigation. This isn't fun to me.
Sounds like a personal thing to me
I think you dont like them cuz you dont like to think when playing games, also ,wtf do you mean hours looking at spreadsheets/menus? Most rpgs are literally, Choose the moves with highest numbers and attack attack attack, exceptions like persona have style and music that still keeps the battle interesting and makes the battle system more diverse
...it's not because I don't think when I play video games...but that I do: when you see a fight/brawl in real life, do you see numbers attached to each hit? No. When you examine, a spread sheet of numbers, do you see a fight or brawl, no. So, for me, these two things don't go together.
@@InglesSpanishConversation this is a weird complaint? By that logic you wouldn’t like to play a lot of games...
@@Lonewulf321 , that's great you like these games. I'm glad you guys can enjoy turn based games, because the more styles of games...the better. I'm obviously speaking for myself: in dragons dogma, I go into the options ,and turn off the health bars, that, other wise, would be floating over my teammates heads. Sometimes I turn that back on, depending on the fight, and that isn't even a turn based game. I prefer no hud at all, but as you say...its a video game, it's pretty hard to ignor the number side of things...I just prefer less numbers, and for things to flow. Im just haven fun...poking fun, as I was surprised to find other people expressing their frustration with tbg's.
i enjoy both turn-based and action-rpg styles, i dont get stuck in one cause is better to experiment new stuff in gaming, my opinion is because of 2 types of experience discovery and challenge
i like turn-based because it can be a challenge and depends from your leveling up, equip weapons, armor, do some upgrades in order to face the level of challenge of a single powerful boss, what makes great about it is how rewarding it feels when you achieve this sort of goals, the game forces you to spend time on your character grinding learning new random abilities that feels misterious and surpising "what new power would i learn when i level up next?" this adds a feeling of rewarding and discovery and dedication to your character, some turn-based rpgs gives you the feature to customize your abilities, powers or attacks based on your preferences on how makes you feel more comfortable to play
in a realtime action-rpgs i would say the same thing but barely this makes it feel more realistic and engaging cause now you can dodge the attack and move freely
but like any game not everything is perfect, some turn-based rpgs and action-rpgs sucks and has terrible mechanics, unbalaced dificulty, infair moments, bad character developments, bad story, boring dungeons, boring ambient, boring music, terrible enemy design or lazy designing.
not many companies can make good RPGs because is a genre that takes so much of artstyle, designing, expensive resources and great technology, good story writter etc.
it needs many different types of experts on the genre to make a good game
edit: i fix a bad grammar xd
Turn Based is still good
Agreed, but i think we can both agree that we have seen a sudden decline in interest, Especially with Final Fantasy where Square stated that they are going to continue to do the FF7 remake combat style.
@@ItsJustAGameSuscribeNow The decline started with the move to "action RPGs".
And Still selling REALLY well too
@@ItsJustAGameSuscribeNow The only thing that has changed with the industry is how game devs have become increasingly uncreative and unoriginal, striving to recreate a formula that already worked with OTHER genres only so they can cash in on the same reused gimmicks over and over again. I say this from a developers standpoint: It takes REAL skill, time and effort to create an RPG with a dedicated strategic system, something built around actual substance and NOT JUST flashy cutscenes and graphics. All of the same aspects that have been incorporated in action RPGS could EASILY be done within a turn based system to make it MORE upbeat and still provide a level of upbeat action play and combat that most modern gamers seem to be seeking these days.
But now mostly everything has become "hack and slash trash" as most people put it, especially when referring to square enix and its ALL a result of devs discovering that they can really just get over on people. This modern generation of gamers are the ABSOLUTE WORST because they send the message that anybody can just about make anything and those who are against it who WONT pay a dime get overshadowed. Its not that there are MORE people desiring a thing, its just that MANY are willing to see a BRAND name and not DARE to speak against it because they think the companies who make this shit actually care about them and are NOT DOING it to make a sale. THAT and the fact that MOST people, ESPECIALLY on this platform are paid off and get FREE SHIT so they dont wanna say anything BAD about the people who OWN the boots they keep licking. Don't get me wrong here, I enjoy action oriented games as MUCH as the NEXT fan, Devil May Cry Franchise, Kingdom Hearts and MANY others IMO are literally freaking masterpieces in my eyes, but the MAIN issue for me comes in the fact that creativity is LOST when every dev tries to MIX and blend and change something into another thing that already exists. I mean theres a reason why people seek after different play styles, because its a MOOD really and each thing is BEST for a different kind of situation. A franchise can lose its identity VERY quickly like this and we've seen it happen COUNTLESS amounts of time. Can ANYONE even really CALL Final Fantasy by the title anymore? Can final fantasy even be recognized for what defines it outside of the iconic character designs and environments? ITS JUST the SAME game that every other action oriented game is now. FF15 for instance took elements from almost every single open world title ever made, even party games! You have fishing, camping, cooking, Driving, Walking for miles on end, maintenance a car, treasure hunting, doing battle quests like SKYRIM and about the only thing that was MISSING from ALL of that is freaking bowling. I mean what the hell is going on? This game was SO FOCUSED on being a f*cking walking simulator that they forgot to actually a create a GREAT story line, something that the Final Fantasy Series is KNOWN for.
Devs are becoming SO goddamn lazy that they even normalize a battle system where characters are A.I driven. I mean I cant even believe we've gotten to this point. Star ocean and the tales series have done something like this before and for those games IT WAS GREAT. But AGAIN these are elements that DEFINE those series of games and WORKS well into how they are designed. But as for something like the Final Fantasy series and quite a few others that have changed over to this kind of system, its VERY JARRING to see how something can be so disfigured. A lot of people saw it coming way back then tbh, but I DIDN'T want to believe it as a possibility before, especially regarding square enix many transitions in the past, but now this is like the NORM. I remember a time when the Action RPG genre respectively remained within its OWN bubble being NOTHING more than a different flavor in its own right. Now the very CORE of RPGS is defined by what is represented in this new age and its JUST ridiculous to me because ONE style of game play is NOT an evolution (A LOT of people like to call it that because for some reason they actually LIKE an A.I system that BEATS the game for you) or substitute over the other. And it can CLEARLY be seen in how there are even DOWNSIDES to both types of systems, for example: Turn based combat is being more for people who want to sit down and enjoy a strategy driven game where everything is coordinated and the player is immersed into a world where they take FULL control of party members at their own leisure and battles are won by thinking instead of the players reflexes. The downsides to that is people complain that everything is SLOW and takes a LONG time to process. I personally cannot agree since following the invention of the Active Time Battle type systems, combat was improved in a way that increases the speed and flow of the game, all of that without BREAKING the turn based rules and this was also good because one got to enjoy a Real Time experience. This is contrast to other gamers who prefer a fancy light show with cutscenes and bright colors flashing on the screen every 2 to 3 seconds, a bunch of A.I driven characters JUMPING and flipping all over the place and falling ontop of one and other in a discombobulated mess. I just don't understand any of it or peoples thought process when it comes to this because its VERY obvious that developers just started making EVERYTHING like this (the SAME WAY) because they are tired of building a well made foundation around the ideas they come up with. Its SO easy to create a game where you have the player just SMASH a button and KILL everything around them as OPPOSED to actually developing a COMPLEX system around these things.
Developers are just interested mostly in profit now and this new era of gamers enable these people to keep taking advantage of them and EVERYBODY else. If someone enjoys this style of gameplay then FINE No problem because EVEN I DO on certain days. But you cant JUST make EVERYTHING like that and expect people NOT to notice substance being lost from this. Especially when the implementation of the style is NOT even anywhere close to being as GOOD as the original concepts they are based upon. It just results in something that doesn't feel right and becomes overly complicated for no reason as well. I mean I STILL DON'T get why ATB was even included in the FF7R since the original system of Active Time Battle was DESIGNED in and of itself TO BE something that adds REAL TIME elements to a TURN BASED RPG system. Whereas the remake is ALREADY a REAL TIME action based combat system. Its JUST STUPID! Even more in how it works, especially since you can ALREADY attack your opponent without the thing being FULL and DEAL damage enough to KILL them. Its like they just marketed the THING "WE NEED ATB!" so that they could pander to original fans who still were foolish enough to think that Square could still do anything DECENT after all this time. Ive been on the fence about the LOGIC in that since BEFORE the game was released and I couldn't believe how many people (despite the garbage classic mode too further contradicting there ever NEEDING to be an ATB meter) couldn't see ANY fallacy in it. I don't know why people think companies like Square enix is doing them some kind of favor by making a REALLY HUGE game series broken down in to episodic parts even when the company is still charging 60 bucks an episode. Its INSANE! As if Square Enix couldn't just take another several years, hire a BIGGER crew and build a WHOLE GAME for everyone to PLAY in a single shot. They said that the problem with FF15 and KH3 release and why it took so long is because they kept changing engines and was even building ONE while developing with it at the same time. Finally at the end of FF15 development they said that they would NEVER do it again and with KH3 release they settled on UNREAL4 and regretted not just doing this in the first place. So doesn't it kinda invalidate their ENTIRE argument for releasing FF7R episodically? A game Fragmented and BROKEN down into a WHOLE bunch of parts? This kind of thing is why more people should be more attentive to whats going on and also what they are spending their money on.