Kingdom Hearts Needs (Good) Spinoffs
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- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2024
- What's the deal with Kingdom Hearts spinoffs? And where did they go? Used to be, couldn't go more than a year without Kingdom Hearts spinning off. You were tripping over 'em! Literally, they were all on handhelds and the darn kids wouldn't pick up after themselves! I snapped their PSP right in half! Birth By Sleep? More like Birth By Boot! Or death, in this case. I destroyed Andrew's PSP. Sorry, Andrew, it was an accident.
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This is actually the big problem in the industry: side games are not that profitable anymore (in their eyes), so only big budget games that take 7 years to make are actually worth to make. If for some reason FF 7 Rebirth and KH4 don't sell well, square will basically go bankrupt, and that's insane to me.
It's literally impossible both of those games sell poorly, but even if that were the case, the company wouldn't go bankrupt. The money they put into these games isn't anywhere near the money they spent developing their own engine and failing at an extremely massive MMO.
What will happen is if KH4 fails, they will just shift focus to different types of games.
Square Enix loves mobile games because from the cell phone era to the smart phone era it's been trendy in Japan. Also they can charge you left and right for playing it. Ever see the episode of South Park about freemium games?
I thought FFXIV's profits were what's funding those projects
@@wakkaseta8351 Sorta like how Sega uses PSO2 money. lol
@@Keytotruth Take that second sentence (along with the failure of other games like Forespoken) and now combine it with what OP said.
FF16 made tons of money, but Square Enix barely got to profit from it because it was covering both itself and the failure of Forespoken.
That's why if any of their big games fail, it'll be really bad for them. Also, the budgets for SE's new games are impossibly massive what do you mean--
Even still, like OP said it's a problem with the industry as a whole, not just SE
I got into kh from 358 and honestly it’s a really fantastic jumping on point because roxas also has no idea what’s going on and that made his teenage and existential angst very relatable
Same, I got into the story through Roxas’s eyes in that game. I knew who Sora was because of the cover art and I knew he was the mc, but I conceptually knew about Roxas first.
Square enix: "Kingdom hearts needs (bad) gachas"
"I spend too much time thinking." Yeah, I'm there with ya
I hate that the trend for Kingdom Hearts spinoff games lately, are just mobile cash grabs
Not just mobile cash grabs, lore relevant mobile cash grabs. I miss the Re:Coded, 358/2 Days, Birth by Sleep and Dream Drop Distance days.
Kinda surprised you didn't mention things like a movie or a TV show,.
Imagine the power of a Sora icon on the Disney + homepage
I mean their was the canceled kingdom hearts pilot roaming around. So they were thinking about it. Wish the Kingdom hearts TV show wasn't canceled.
You know, the funny thing is I started with 2 and Chain of Memories as my first KH games. But you wanna know the first one I REALLY emotionally connected with? 358 Days. I remember being at my Karate Dojo, waiting for my mom to finish her advanced class. I beat the game, and cried all night. It was the fuel for my love of Kingdom Hearts. That’s the strength of these spinoffs. They can have brand new characters that people can connect with, and only hint at their connections to the main story for big fans. Also, I’m another one of those 4 who care about treasure planet, and I’m with you Jacob.
Bada bing bada bip you're a Kingdom Hearts simp!
I should not have been taking a drink when he said that 🤣🤣🤣
i couldn't agree with you more. there isn't a lot building up hype at the moment, and seeing the direction that missing link is taking, its just making the wait for khiv a little bit frustrating and uncertain.
The thing is, Nomura has a writing team. I feel like he needs to sit by himself and recreate that magic of KH1 & 2. Nomura needs to get inspired by something because he says he goes home and watches tv. I think the man needs to play some other games and get really inspired.
I’m more mad about the fact that square enix thought, out of all possible money making games they can make, decide to make a Pokémon go ripoff when that game hasn’t been been popular for SEVERAL years instead of something like a gacha game like genehin impact, a 3d action game that is on every device at this point and is insanely popular financially and commercially
This is exactly why I get upset when people say things like "Kingdom Hearts outgrew Disney, KH4 should have no Disney stuff." Like, you're missing out on so much free press! How many kids saw a trailer for KH2 in 2006 or the DS games in 2010 on the Disney Channel with these weird anime guys and characters from Disney movies they liked, only to go running to tell their moms that they need to have it? I know I definitely did. Don't drop the Disney stuff, make the Disney stuff better. If they leaned into it for these smaller games, they could be making so many newer fans.
And I 100% agree with what you said about the side games being more self-contained. I remember when people would even get mad at others for calling the handheld games spin-offs cause "saying spin-off implies that they're not important" but at their core, I really believe they shouldn't have been, at least not in a big way to the overarching story. I've said this before but you can play Mario Odyssey, Pokémon Scarlet, GTA6, FFXVI, Breath of the Wild, Resident Evil 8, Monster Hunter World, and the newest Assassin's Creed, all without having ever played a previous game in any of their franchises, and not be confused the entire time you're playing.
It's just not sustainable to ask people to play even one or two old games in order to enjoy the newest one and the sooner KH learns this lesson, the easier it'll be for them to attract new people. Resetting things at KH4 won't fix this if you'll eventually need to have played KH4 and KH5 (plus some side games) just to understand KH6. Getting into this series is a commitment, it's a chore, and frankly when even fans themselves admit that half the games have pretty broken gameplay, and the other half have meh stories that only matter for one cutscene at the end, it's no wonder that people don't wanna have to go through all that. (Also hi yes, it's me Dean. This be my new account. Imma just comment on this one from here on.)
A lot of that started in response to Nomura saying that KH basically outgrew FF and abandoning FF in KH3 mostly.
It was to spite him and make a point, it was some of the parts that made it good and with the lack of parts it lost some of its identity. Either KH needs to fully abandon its roots in other media or keep it and keep using it to bolster itself.
The frustration you're feeling from those people, that is frustration many felt when Nomura cut stuff for about 18 hours of filler. Some of the push that FF would've provided in those 18 to connect things and help the Disney aspect shine.
This is cool dude! I hope you make more little kingdom hearts discussion videos like this! I feel like you could definitely just riff like this on a ton of topics! Can’t wait for more
For me it goes a bit deeper than just making "new stories". I personally think it's frustrating that Kingdom Hearts can't just make a total spin-off in every sense - derivative gameplay with no "canon relevance". It doesn't contain any massive teases for the next game nor is it required reading, it's just a game that can equally serve as fan service for Kingdom Hearts fans, and a jumping on point for newcomers.
Melody of Memory is a fine game, but like, why did it contain narrative setup for KH4? The Final Fantasy rhythm games don't do this, but with Kingdom Hearts, absolutely every game needs to be canon or setup for the next big game and I wish it didn't have to be that way. Give me "Kingdom Karts". Give me a Kingdom Hearts fighting game. The series has so much potential for fun spin-offs but it limits itself by insisting on making everything canon or important to the narrative. The occasional tie-in game or side adventure where we play as someone besides Sora is fine and I think that's a good place to make more important spin-offs (or tie-in games, as I prefer to call them), but there also shouldn't be anything wrong with games that just use the IP and aren't important to the wider story.
And that's how we get games like Metal Gear Survive and Street Fighter 2010.
I’m a simple man. I see Jacob make KH content. I click it.
I think the issue is a bigger reflection on how KH story was laid our. Spin-off and side games are fine but how inaccessible some are that have heavily important story information is an issue. Melody of mastery, all the “fremium” mobile games from Unchained Key to Dark Road. Most people won’t play a new game until KH4 drops and there’s a story and a half of plot floating around you need before that.
7:43
Bless you
This is like the ending of Pirates 2 where that character returns before the credits roll.
I do feel like the series often (in my mind) squanders the cool stuff with potential, the universe of KH is so cool that I wish we did get more fun spin off stuff that I’d play! Unfortunately I’m just… really not into mobile games lol, I’m not excited about missing link whatsoever. But I do hold a lot of love for the franchise and I hope for it’s success, even if I don’t like a lot of choices made / I’m not satisfied with certain aspects
When you walk away...
Great video! I think my main concern with making the mobile titles more legit games is that I personally don't want to be playing mobile games. If it was a lower budget more AA type thing that could be run on both consoles and phones, then I might be interested!
On camera or off camera, your thoughts are always so well composed! Loved this little rant, please do more!
kingdom hearts needs jacob as a writer
We need to restart Disney Infinity 4.0 Kingdom Hearts Edition lol
You said gacha games aren't for growing the fanbase but I don't quite think that's true. You mentioned FGO which I'd attribute as the cause for Fate being as big as it is today, English speakers won't even be able to officially play the first game until later this year.
A KH mobile game could grow the fanbase but SE just kind of sucks at it. I didn't play Union X myself partially because it looked like players would be waiting months for crumbs of plot that may or may not be a retread of things they already know from Unchained X and I looked at that and went, "why would I play this," even as a core fan of the series. And with Missing Link being a 3D action game that also seems like it'll eventually shell out lore relevant to ongoing events in the main games, I don't expect that to get any better. So yeah something solid to fill the gaps between the big releases would be nice, I got into the series with Days myself.
Glad to know there are 3 more people who care about Treasure Planet :,)
Frustrated Jacob you a goat 🐐 I been following you for years. Happy that your posting. Y
Oh boy, funny Michael Mouse game video!
I'm really cynical about Missing Link by just thinking about the lifetime that, primarily, overseas releases of gacha/mobile games get. For example very recently, Love Live School Idol Festival 2 Miracle Live was announced to be releasing globally in February of this year and IN THE SAME ANNOUNCEMENT they also confirmed it will be shutting down in May... of this year. 3 whole months! Why get invested in mobile games? Why spend money if there's a very real threat of them being shut down so fast? Why spend money to make these quick cash grabs if they don't even let folks enjoy them? Can they even turn a profit in these situations? If Missing Link has story/lore, I can only hope they take the same route with unchained x/union x whatever and let the story be playable after service ends bc ??? Of course, IF it ends up getting shut down relatively fast... just, I would suggest everyone to be f2p lol
But yeah I do miss spin off games. I can just own it and not be afraid I won't be able to play it bc service has ended, losing all my progress. I also got into KH bc of Chain of Memories but like not from the beginning (played while visiting a friend and they let me borrow it later on). ahh the little Riku sprite in destiny islands is embedded into my mind~ ...I still want a playable Kairi game in the style of numbered kh games or AT LEAST how you described in the video lol
oh I wanted to add... a lot of mobile games are getting rather complex? i guess? But things like Honkai Star Rail, Genshin Impact, Wuthering Waves (upcoming) kinda make me overlook ML gameplay not really being suited for walking around or being on the go. I have no idea how anyone plays those games on their phones but hey, I guess it's possible! Except the pokemon go aspect of it, i don't get that bc they said you can play it without going out?? What are they talking about ???
@@circoduck You are forgetting "Kingdom Hearts Union X" was a successful completed cell phone game.Try not to be down in dumps about things.
@@1BadAssArchAngelvs14 true true but man... I think it being a mobile game robs folk of being able to experience now it like other games in the series. Luckily people like Everglow managed to save the cutscenes.
Hope you keep posting man
You're making a lot of fkking sense here. Why is it a GPS 'ACTION' game? If Disney 100% owned Kingdom Hearts everything you said they should do they would've already done. Especially a Kairi spin off and making her a mainstream princess.
It's quite easy to assume Disney can still own the IP and just not care too much about it. It's not a shared thing, they own it entirely. It's just nowhere near making Marvel or Star Wars type money so they largely ignore it and let Square and Nomura do their thing.
Notice how it wasn't until KH3, which used more popular and recent Disney properties, that they began to actually pay attention to the series.
I feel KH can't have a good meaningful spin off.
They rely too much on game to game connections which limits their ability to function.
Chain of memories was nice, but you could just ignore it because the entire plot point was lack of memories.
Re Coded was just forgotten completely compared to everything else which feels weird.
Birth By Sleep came too late for it to work from a narrative point without hijacking the story.
Days was just filler explaining most of what we already knew.
Melodies also doing the same explaining most of what we already knew.
There are others, but I'm leaving those out because narrative wise they just hijack the BBS story to go even further back.
It is trying to be an epic starwars or lord of the rings saga, but for a game this comes with consequences as you spend nearly 10-20x the length of a movie with the character. We become who we play, and in the mainline locking us to Sora has consequences just like how in FF15 you are Noctis and none of what happens to your team really matters and happens fine off screen.
KH needs to take a step back and look at what it is, not try to be what it isn't.
I got into KH from DDD :) I had no context whatsoever, I just saw Neku on the back cover. I think DDD is the optimal starting point actually (Joking).
Late to this video but it'll definitely happen post KH4. Didn't happen with KH3 because how pressed for time it was, also not room to introduce new characters and ideas when it would happen during the new arc/saga of Kingdom hearts.
I just want them to at the very least try to port every spinoff to consoles
SE are always chasing the latest trend, or if I'm being harsh, the trend from a few years ago. There are still some talented people working there but the company as a whole has long felt like it only cares about money. The annual New Year's Letter from the President never fails to disappoint. I've accepted it for a long time but I'm still so sad that the FF and KH franchises are in their hands.
A kingdom hearts not directed by namora wouldn't be kingdom hearts
As someone who's been here from the start and basically just enjoyed the prospect of a world where the devs might actually concentrate ona new start, I was actually quite looking forward to fewer Kingdom Hearts games and spin-offs until I sw this video. Because you know, you ARE right- in a world where games that take half a decade to come out is the norm we DO need more reminders that a beloved franchise exists and is alive that aren't just mobile gacha games, but will those games even be made? SquareEnix's new boss even outright said that they're aiming to concentrate their resources and develop fewer but higher quality games. The smaller, self-contained "jumping on"-point games are a dying breed.
But... does that also matter in a world where the kids just ant V-Bucks for Fortnite anyway? Is that money better spent on basically paying Epic to make Kingdom Hearts-models and let people play it that way? I am old and lost in this modern market and the modern consumer- what do the children of today want? I don't know. I don't even know what Disney are gonna do in the next five years or what they're gonna let SquareEnix play with.
I guess I hope that after Kingdom Hearts 4 drops and is a slihgtly easier game to get in on, we'll see if it turns out that Nomura has actually farmed out development to a bunch of side-houses, and get the brand out in other ways. Keyblade Warriors? An April's Fools visual novel?A charming 2D platformer? The sky is the limit!
To your point about action based mobile games, you almost perfectly described Monster Hunter Now. Though you're 100% right about it absolutely chewing through battery life, that game is doing gangbusters in Asia right now. There's a good chance Missing-Link's design could actually take off the same way.
One of my friend’s kids bought Kingdom Hearts 3 for Xbox the other day. He has never played any other KH game.
It needs good games in general anymore
The return of the king of sense
nice to see someone speaking about kh and not being cringe, love it.
I started with Chain of memories for gba. Yr not wrong
Good points, I was wondering how come they no one at Disney or sqaure thought of taking advantage of the Gummi ships & the way they travel
I think they’re doing this mmo style game to constantly produce new story content without waiting for a package of sorts. However, instead of doing a mobile game, they should do an mmo like ff14. I agree though, I miss the spin-offs. They can focus on the other characters outside of Sora. People want numbered titles to have multiple playable characters, but I prefer it to be solely or a majority of it to be Sora. The spin-offs can focus on characters outside of Sora. I think it’s a no brained tbh. Fans want to know more about these characters more than expanding the prologue.
I agree we need Keyblade kingdom hearts MMO that connects with the Keyblade wielder Lore.This idea will rival PSO2 or other action game MMO's.
…it needs the PC port to come to steam for gawds sake
15:50 - 15:56 Is that a reference to Starkid's Black Friday?
Yes.
A fellow treasure planet lover!!!
KHML should have been a console game. If the game has to have massive sacrifices to run on a phone then I think thats a failure. Not to mention the fact these mobile games have next to no preservation is such a joke.
I played the game the “3rd birthday” for the psp from start to finish. Watched every cutscene. To this day I have no idea what was happening in the story. I don’t know if it was a prequel or sequel in the parasite Eve franchise. I wonder if that’s how it feels to play one of the hand held titles of a kingdom hearts for a new comer.
Mobile is really popular in Japan. I do think that it will attract new players, but I tend to agree that it does seem odd that there is a sort of have your cake and eat it too approach to missing link. We'll just have to see honestly.
Well Nomura aculy lets his staff trow in ideas aswell.
However the idea of him not having total controll of KH is bad.
KH is in all purposes his Brainchild.
He has a ending for it in mind.
He isnt the only Writer aswell.
Kh 4 adds a Female Writer to the team.
He alsomentioned how to him Melody of Memory wasnt the Kairi game.
The thing is that its like a Manga series to him..that was the case since KH 1
Mayby after the Series ending he will step down a bit under the cobdition that Sora and the rest get left behind
Ther is also a reason we get Mobile games. Ther Populer in Japan.
So they make them.
Kh 3 beeing " Unfinished" as you say was also kinda the point as it isnt the End of Sora's Story. Nomura Talked about this since 2007
Kingdom Hearts will soneday end and Sora will always be the Hero going on new adventures untill theyxreach the ending Nomura Invisioned in 2004.
Kh Is a Story about Selfishness vs selflessness. Now if you dont like the way it habdels that thats ok.
Plus lets be real for Disney to own the IP and yet Nomura is in total Control?
Plus i belive anyone else would just falter to Disneys Demands
Kingdom hearts has no spinoffs. Just mainline games
Fate/Grand Order mentioned
hell i started with kh1 and then went to kh2 and yeah it was confusing but i still enjoyed the experience as a still kh normie. im completely against the gatekeeping that happened with kh3 let newcomers enjoy the new game in peace if they feel like playing older games afterwards great if they dont leave them alone !
You're awesome, I am subscibing
Yeah i hate the games industry for killing small spinoff games in favor for mobile cashcows and AAA mainline entries..... - o-
"The kids like Fortnite"
So Sora should be in Fortnite is what I'm getting from this.
on the gacha game side , agree ML is not giving much when genshin impact and honkai star rail is already in the market with a huge fanbase with huge lore huge map or a lot of fun game modes on mobile and no need for gps(thats such a silly idea in a bad way) ive never liked gacha cash grabs from square enix, they should just make a kh online and have constant updates, no gacha just pure story ans grind maybe but idk if disney would like that.
You remind me of someone and I'm just not sure who that is.
I played and liked 1 and 2... and stopped there. Became a bit convoluted for my taste.
I don't KH3 will have made that many new fans. Time will tell. It was a bit of a train wreck.
You're still alive?
kingdom hearts needs a full reboot, it need to get rid of sora and come back to the origins of the serie which is :
it's just the basic story of kids escaping their boring world and finding incredible, and goofy stuff out there, classic isekai plot, but more variety
no need to have disney in it, what makes kh is the variety of environments and casts of characters we interact with,
imo getting rid of disney could allow square to actually bring some more serious and interesting stuff, they will never do it, but they need to.
or they should actually make 2 different series, one with disney, and one ip without talking about more dark and serious stuff, but trying to fit everything in one bag makes the two feel incoherent