+Christian Gendlesperger Full co-op immediately makes it better to us than Descent or other "DM vs heroes" games (though we do love Claustrophobia, but that game is super rules light... it's practically a euro). And we love the 'video game' touches as long time MMO players, that helps counteract the "overwhelming rules" issue, and also, the game isn't too dice heavy, unlike something like Mice & Mystics. It's a bit lighter on the dice than other games of its ilk, so that helps a lot :)
Thank you for breaking down your thoughts. I know it's hard to shoot so much under the gun pretty much constantly, but it was so good to see this played. Thanks!
My only complaint is that this isn't available yet. Backed the Kickstarter and your review made me even more excited about it. It can't get here soon enough. Excellent job. I've seen many of your reviews and I didn't expect your final thoughts to go this well based on the games you usually prefer (euros). So I think the fact you really liked this shouts volumes. Thanks!
2:47 Quick correction: Going from level 3 to level 4 costs 16 points, not 9. Going to level 5 costs 25 points. You pay the level you are achieving, squared, not the level you are leaving.
I definitely wish Descent was pure co-op out of the box, but other than that I have to admit that I don't see enough reason to get this since I already have Descent, especially considering the disparity in their prices. That's my story and I'm sticking to it, since I don't have much spare money at the moment and I really want to back 7th Continent!
Just had a conversation about older MMO's at work today. I had just said that I liked the harsher "death penalties" and corpse runs in EverQuest as it made you think about and attempt to mitigate the risks that you took. Although getting trained when zoning in on a laggy server was a little disheartening...
I love watching Rahdo try to back out of offending people with Ameritrash while I would define Ameritrash as a word that hipster Euro gamers use for something that uses dice and doesn't involve wine cask trading or European Town building in a boardgame
I just managed to late pledge this, I love Galaxy Defenders , I have every expansion for it (which you can get cheap if you really hunt around the U.K. now on ebay / amazon etc)
I just love hearing the EverQuest reference, my first MMO and had so much fun. Thankfully I knew clerics, so death wasn't that bad of an issue, but yeah, not having a cleric around at times it was a downer.
Wow, this looks fantastic. How would you rate this against Gloomhaven and 7th Continent (I would ask about Middara and Folklore but you don't have videos for them, so I'm assuming you haven't played them?). My wife and I are always looking to expand our co-op selection, but there are just so many good choices!
+John Wright all 3 great games. you'd really have to decide based on whether your looking for more dice based gameplay and awesome components (S&S) or non-fantasy adventure (7C) or robust branching storytelling (gloom) :)
+Chantal Noordeloos they're pretty clear and straightforward with lots of pictures and examples. you can download them on the kickstarter page i believe :)
Thanks!! I honestly have 'special needs' when it comes to reading rules. This is why I'm so grateful to you. Once I've seen the gameplay it just clicks. Thanks to you rules are easier to absorb.
I think I have 'special needs', too, Chantal, hehe. Some rulebooks are a real grind for me to get through. As excited as I am to showcase this game to my family and friends, I am having a considerable amount of trouble getting through this beast. It isn't poorly written, it's just... a LOT.
Rahdo, have you played with Sword & Sorcery on TableTopia at all? If so what do you think of the implementation of there? Thanks for run through on this!
+zimbo5521 S&S, only because PM is more grim and horror-filled so my wife wouldn't like the setting. From a gameplay POV, they're comparably complex, though PM is more innovative :)
Thanks for doing a run through on this game! Really glad to hear about the companion app, since I couldn't keep track of all those tokens/upkeep very well. Any idea how well the companion app works? I'm assuming that's what you were using on your tablet?
+TwiztedNature nope, on my tablet i just had PDFs for the cards that I didn't have in my prototype. i haven't seen the app at all, but i *think* it's only for 'saving your party progress' between games
Thank you for the response :) I couldn't find a lot of info about it on the KS page, but will keep an eye out for more info. It'd be great if it could manage upkeep/health since I wouldn't want to accidentally cheat
Hello Rahdo I don't understand the story of this game - is it any good or is it mainly about the mechanics of the game? You are all heroes brought back to lfie? Is there a plot twist at all or is the story quite predictable ? ty don't mind spoilers
Hi - now Gloomhaven is out at Retail, and S&S is about to come out - which one did you prefer at this KS stage? Which would you choose if you were going to buy one now? Thank you :)
if you mean fantasy adventure boardgames, that'd be gloomhaven for sure. as for a wow type game, i'd probably say sleeping gods (though this isn't a fantasy setting, but the gameplay is the closest boardgaming has come to the "huge world to explore" feel of an mmo
Hello Rahdo. You mention more euro epic fantasy adventure. Can you tell me which ones you mean? I assume Gloomhaven is one (betatested it and backed it) but are there any other?
Hey, Rahdo! You keep mentioning Descent; are you talking first edition or second edition that you're comparing it to? Also, how would this stack up against Shadows of Brimstone?
+nathrotep 2nd edition descent, which i've actually done a runthrough for. i've never played shadows of brimstone... watching other videos about it 100% convinced me that it wasn't for us...
+rahdo Thanks for the reply. That clears things up a bit for us since we love Descent first edition, but did not like the second edition at all. The first edition is a true dungeon crawl, where the second edition is not. Shadows of Brimstone is one of our current favorites, and is more like a true dungeon crawl than any other game we currently play. We're hoping that S&S will be the new dungeon crawl favorite for our group.
With the avalanche of dungeon crawlers we've been getting lately, it would be nice to see a Top list on that, specially your being an euro gamer above all... Ok... We know Gloomhaven will be number 1, so you could almost do a "Top 5 Dungeon Crawlers, apart from GH"... hehe
sure, i've got it as a pdf from an old email i sent to the publisher asking if it was correct. i wouldn't want to make it an official public posting anywhere, as for all i know it's out of date, but if you want to give me an email address or something i'll send it along :)
so i was able to save the PDF as text, so let's see if i can post it here: ROUND STRUCTURE I: Time Phase • Effects cleanup • Powers refresh then cooldown • Soul enhancements/resurrection II: Battle Phase (for each hero) • Hero Turn o 1 move (interrupt for actions but not combat) o X attacks (if engaged, can only attack monsters in same area) o X actions • Dash (once per round) - extra movement OR stand after KO • Focus attack (once per round) - add one hit to attack • Provoke Master Enemy (once per round) while not engaged • Bash Chest/Locked Door (draw trap card) • Reorganize equipment • Pass/receive one item + $ (plus free equip action if slot is empty) • Search furniture item in same area (flip token & roll red die) • Perform Quest Action o Unlimited free actions • Open standard door • Pickup/drop item (while not engaged) • Evade (receive attack from each enemy if not dominating area) • Enemy turn o If enemies in play, draw encounter card and resolve III: Event Phase • If top event card unrevealed then reveal & resolve card • If top event card revealed then discard (unless day/night card) • Check quest end COMBAT Stage I HIT: • Activate any item or power to enhance the attack (for instance using the Focus Attack Action) • Roll the indicated dice • Spend dice icons to active items & power effects (they take effect immediately, except performing additional attacks, in these case they are resolved once the first was completed) • +1 hit if Dominating • Summarize hits Stage II Def: • Check for resistances & weaknesses, and apply special blue shield response abilities • Armor value reduce the hits UNLESS the target is KO’d • Magic shields can block HITS AFTER the armor • Roll 1 blue die for each remaining hit, up to maximum allowed for defender • Spend dice icons to active items & power effects • Summarize Shields and suffer damage GAME EFFECTS • AOE - all effected defend (no friendly fire) • Bash - force defender to move back 1 area • Lethal - damage not stopped by shield or armor + no def roll • Fire - 1 damage during time phase, then reduce • Critical - green instant, blue temp, red permanent • KO - no fight, no armor, no dominating, move to stand • Poison* - damage at time phase then attempt SAVE • Blinded* - SAVE before any action, discard turn end • Slow* - can only do 1 action, discard at end of turn • Stun* - skip turn, discard at end of NEXT hero turn * these conditions work differently on enemies vs heroes MULTIPLE CONDITIONS: can’t suffer same condition twice, instead discard the weaker one or take 1 wound if the two conditions are the same ASSINGING ENEMIES: always distribute evenly amongst players clockwise from active & dupes go to owning players ENEMY TARGETING: break ties by 1) most wounded 2) fewest HP 3) closest
We see all these great runthroughs done on prototypes like 1-2 years ago for games that were just recently released recently and I thought about a simple top 10 you should every 6 months lets say... It would top 10 games you wished you had time to play more and again now the official game is out... You may need to shorten this title but you got the point... And I know you did this once... You are always so busy playing new games but sometimes it is nice to look back at great games you played inthe past and compare them to give some perspective vs the new...
Can you speak a little bit more about what differentiates S&S from other dungeon crawlers/adventure games? Is it just the full coop? As you've said, it's a bit surprising, because this is typically the kind of game I'd think you and Jen wouldn't like (especially with that rather large rules overhead). What is the secret sauce that S&S is dolloping on ameritrash for you guys?
+Christian Gendlesperger Full co-op immediately makes it better to us than Descent or other "DM vs heroes" games (though we do love Claustrophobia, but that game is super rules light... it's practically a euro). And we love the 'video game' touches as long time MMO players, that helps counteract the "overwhelming rules" issue, and also, the game isn't too dice heavy, unlike something like Mice & Mystics. It's a bit lighter on the dice than other games of its ilk, so that helps a lot :)
Thank you for breaking down your thoughts. I know it's hard to shoot so much under the gun pretty much constantly, but it was so good to see this played. Thanks!
My only complaint is that this isn't available yet. Backed the Kickstarter and your review made me even more excited about it. It can't get here soon enough. Excellent job. I've seen many of your reviews and I didn't expect your final thoughts to go this well based on the games you usually prefer (euros). So I think the fact you really liked this shouts volumes. Thanks!
2:47 Quick correction: Going from level 3 to level 4 costs 16 points, not 9. Going to level 5 costs 25 points. You pay the level you are achieving, squared, not the level you are leaving.
I definitely wish Descent was pure co-op out of the box, but other than that I have to admit that I don't see enough reason to get this since I already have Descent, especially considering the disparity in their prices. That's my story and I'm sticking to it, since I don't have much spare money at the moment and I really want to back 7th Continent!
Get the App with Descent to have it run the GM
Just had a conversation about older MMO's at work today. I had just said that I liked the harsher "death penalties" and corpse runs in EverQuest as it made you think about and attempt to mitigate the risks that you took. Although getting trained when zoning in on a laggy server was a little disheartening...
I love watching Rahdo try to back out of offending people with Ameritrash while I would define Ameritrash as a word that hipster Euro gamers use for something that uses dice and doesn't involve wine cask trading or European Town building in a boardgame
I just managed to late pledge this, I love Galaxy Defenders , I have every expansion for it (which you can get cheap if you really hunt around the U.K. now on ebay / amazon etc)
Thanks for your video. Hopefully your great review brings more people to the KS. We need more stretch goals. :)
I just love hearing the EverQuest reference, my first MMO and had so much fun. Thankfully I knew clerics, so death wasn't that bad of an issue, but yeah, not having a cleric around at times it was a downer.
Wow, this looks fantastic. How would you rate this against Gloomhaven and 7th Continent (I would ask about Middara and Folklore but you don't have videos for them, so I'm assuming you haven't played them?). My wife and I are always looking to expand our co-op selection, but there are just so many good choices!
+John Wright all 3 great games. you'd really have to decide based on whether your looking for more dice based gameplay and awesome components (S&S) or non-fantasy adventure (7C) or robust branching storytelling (gloom) :)
Would you consider this an Ameritrash have and slash, or more Euro?
How are the rules to read? Simple and easy or 'Tragedy Looper'? Fifty pages sounds intimidating
+Chantal Noordeloos they're pretty clear and straightforward with lots of pictures and examples. you can download them on the kickstarter page i believe :)
Thanks!! I honestly have 'special needs' when it comes to reading rules. This is why I'm so grateful to you. Once I've seen the gameplay it just clicks. Thanks to you rules are easier to absorb.
I think I have 'special needs', too, Chantal, hehe. Some rulebooks are a real grind for me to get through. As excited as I am to showcase this game to my family and friends, I am having a considerable amount of trouble getting through this beast. It isn't poorly written, it's just... a LOT.
Justin Robben yeah, quantity can be just as daunting as poor quality
Rahdo, have you played with Sword & Sorcery on TableTopia at all? If so what do you think of the implementation of there? Thanks for run through on this!
+Molly McIntosh haven't tried it, too many new games from essen! :)
Rahdo, so which would you choose if you had to make a choice between the two: Perdition's Mouth or Sword & Sorcery?
+zimbo5521 S&S, only because PM is more grim and horror-filled so my wife wouldn't like the setting. From a gameplay POV, they're comparably complex, though PM is more innovative :)
Thanks for doing a run through on this game! Really glad to hear about the companion app, since I couldn't keep track of all those tokens/upkeep very well. Any idea how well the companion app works? I'm assuming that's what you were using on your tablet?
+TwiztedNature nope, on my tablet i just had PDFs for the cards that I didn't have in my prototype. i haven't seen the app at all, but i *think* it's only for 'saving your party progress' between games
Thank you for the response :) I couldn't find a lot of info about it on the KS page, but will keep an eye out for more info. It'd be great if it could manage upkeep/health since I wouldn't want to accidentally cheat
+TwiztedNature you could do a search for their previous app for galaxy defender, and that will probably give you a decent idea of what to expect :)
Don't know why I didn't think of that! Great suggestion. Thanks again :)
Hello Rahdo
I don't understand the story of this game - is it any good or is it mainly about the mechanics of the game?
You are all heroes brought back to lfie? Is there a plot twist at all or is the story quite predictable ?
ty don't mind spoilers
Hi - now Gloomhaven is out at Retail, and S&S is about to come out - which one did you prefer at this KS stage? Which would you choose if you were going to buy one now? Thank you :)
for us, gloomhaven as it's more simple and streamlined
rahdo still a game u play? "have legs" as they say?
yes we are playing gloomhaven
***** what about swords and sorcery?
s&s is great, but now that we've got gloomhaven, i can't imagine playing any other dungeon crawl
Hey Rahdo.. whats your #1 choice for RPG's atm? Also, whats the #1 RPG that you have played that feels like WOW? :) thanks.
if you mean fantasy adventure boardgames, that'd be gloomhaven for sure. as for a wow type game, i'd probably say sleeping gods (though this isn't a fantasy setting, but the gameplay is the closest boardgaming has come to the "huge world to explore" feel of an mmo
Hello Rahdo. You mention more euro epic fantasy adventure. Can you tell me which ones you mean? I assume Gloomhaven is one (betatested it and backed it) but are there any other?
+Bacharis Charilaos gloomhaven and perdition's mouth :)
+rahdo Haha. Also in my sights! How could I forget it.
+rahdo hi great video, great channel.
what are ur thoughts about Cyclades? have u played it? would u consider it a euro or ameritrash game?
+Salman Qaisar i've played it and i consider it mostly ameritrash with a bit of euro sprinkled in :)
Hey, Rahdo! You keep mentioning Descent; are you talking first edition or second edition that you're comparing it to? Also, how would this stack up against Shadows of Brimstone?
+nathrotep 2nd edition descent, which i've actually done a runthrough for. i've never played shadows of brimstone... watching other videos about it 100% convinced me that it wasn't for us...
+rahdo Thanks for the reply. That clears things up a bit for us since we love Descent first edition, but did not like the second edition at all. The first edition is a true dungeon crawl, where the second edition is not. Shadows of Brimstone is one of our current favorites, and is more like a true dungeon crawl than any other game we currently play. We're hoping that S&S will be the new dungeon crawl favorite for our group.
With the avalanche of dungeon crawlers we've been getting lately, it would be nice to see a Top list on that, specially your being an euro gamer above all... Ok... We know Gloomhaven will be number 1, so you could almost do a "Top 5 Dungeon Crawlers, apart from GH"... hehe
Would you be willing to make your self written player aid notes public?
sure, i've got it as a pdf from an old email i sent to the publisher asking if it was correct. i wouldn't want to make it an official public posting anywhere, as for all i know it's out of date, but if you want to give me an email address or something i'll send it along :)
so i was able to save the PDF as text, so let's see if i can post it here:
ROUND STRUCTURE
I: Time Phase
• Effects cleanup
• Powers refresh then cooldown
• Soul enhancements/resurrection
II: Battle Phase (for each hero)
• Hero Turn
o 1 move (interrupt for actions but not combat)
o X attacks (if engaged, can only attack monsters in same area)
o X actions
• Dash (once per round) - extra movement OR stand after KO
• Focus attack (once per round) - add one hit to attack
• Provoke Master Enemy (once per round) while not engaged
• Bash Chest/Locked Door (draw trap card)
• Reorganize equipment
• Pass/receive one item + $ (plus free equip action if slot is empty)
• Search furniture item in same area (flip token & roll red die)
• Perform Quest Action
o Unlimited free actions
• Open standard door
• Pickup/drop item (while not engaged)
• Evade (receive attack from each enemy if not dominating area)
• Enemy turn
o If enemies in play, draw encounter card and resolve
III: Event Phase
• If top event card unrevealed then reveal & resolve card
• If top event card revealed then discard (unless day/night card)
• Check quest end
COMBAT
Stage I HIT:
• Activate any item or power to enhance the attack (for instance using the Focus Attack Action)
• Roll the indicated dice
• Spend dice icons to active items & power effects (they take effect immediately, except performing additional attacks, in these case they are resolved once the first was completed)
• +1 hit if Dominating
• Summarize hits
Stage II Def:
• Check for resistances & weaknesses, and apply special blue shield response abilities
• Armor value reduce the hits UNLESS the target is KO’d
• Magic shields can block HITS AFTER the armor
• Roll 1 blue die for each remaining hit, up to maximum allowed for defender
• Spend dice icons to active items & power effects
• Summarize Shields and suffer damage
GAME EFFECTS
• AOE - all effected defend (no friendly fire)
• Bash - force defender to move back 1 area
• Lethal - damage not stopped by shield or armor + no def roll
• Fire - 1 damage during time phase, then reduce
• Critical - green instant, blue temp, red permanent
• KO - no fight, no armor, no dominating, move to stand
• Poison* - damage at time phase then attempt SAVE
• Blinded* - SAVE before any action, discard turn end
• Slow* - can only do 1 action, discard at end of turn
• Stun* - skip turn, discard at end of NEXT hero turn
* these conditions work differently on enemies vs heroes
MULTIPLE CONDITIONS: can’t suffer same condition twice, instead discard the weaker one or take 1 wound if the two conditions are the same
ASSINGING ENEMIES: always distribute evenly amongst players clockwise from active & dupes go to owning players
ENEMY TARGETING: break ties by 1) most wounded 2) fewest HP 3) closest
Thoughts on this vs Legends of Andor vs Pathfinder card game?
+xyst hmm, #1 andor #2 this #3 pathfinder
We see all these great runthroughs done on prototypes like 1-2 years ago for games that were just recently released recently and I thought about a simple top 10 you should every 6 months lets say... It would top 10 games you wished you had time to play more and again now the official game is out... You may need to shorten this title but you got the point... And I know you did this once... You are always so busy playing new games but sometimes it is nice to look back at great games you played inthe past and compare them to give some perspective vs the new...
interesitng idea :)
Can you speak a little bit more about what differentiates S&S from other dungeon crawlers/adventure games? Is it just the full coop?
As you've said, it's a bit surprising, because this is typically the kind of game I'd think you and Jen wouldn't like (especially with that rather large rules overhead). What is the secret sauce that S&S is dolloping on ameritrash for you guys?
Dang, rahdo, I love your previews, but you talk so fast that I feel exhausted after watching them :-)
First day backer :)
Words out now that the battle system sucks. U swing monster swings back repeat that 100 times
What about it is ameritrashy? Too much luck involved?
too many small rules to keep track of, plus too much dice rolling for our tastes
@@rahdo Thanks for the reply. I'm assuming this would also apply to sword and sorcery immortal souls as well?
@@TMAXXPUNISHER don't know much about that one, but i'd assume so...