High voltage with scrap parts - Kelvin generator - (PWJ164)
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- Опубликовано: 24 мар 2020
- Let's build an interesting machine from household items. No moving parts and no special tools needed to make it.
It's called a Kelvin generator and it is a very old invention... but still interesting to see. 
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Please don’t stop making videos. I get so much enjoyment from them. If I had access to the stuff you do, I’d be doing exactly the same.
he's a fraud. youtube is full of em. he can stop.
" I'm the operator with my Kelvin generator" by Ralf and Florian :)
Neutral Drop !!!!. Good vid man. Cheers
I've known about these generators since I was a kid, but never heard a good explanation about how it works. Thank you! I'm still curious about "influence". I'll have to research that separately. Very nice video.
Thank you, it's a pleasure for me to explain things.
Influence (I'm not sure if there is a better word in english) is basically the attraction of opposite electric charges. Or the repulsion of identical charges. We see the same effects in semiconductors like a MOSFET transistor or in a capacitor. Electrons, air, water and metal interacting in a most fascinating way.
Maybe you look how a Van de Graaff generator works. It uses a plastic band to move the charges but is quite similar in principle and better documented.
The water is somewhat conductive, meaning some charge carriers (electrons and ions) in the water are free to move with respect to the water. On the right-hand side of the diagram, the negative conduction electrons in the water in the tube are attracted by the "influence" of the electric field from the positive open cylinder immediately below. (Also, any positive ions are repelled.) Thus, as the water breaks free into droplets, the droplets have an excess of electrons making the droplets negatively charged. On the left-hand side, the electrons in the water in the tube are repelled by the "influence" of the electric field from the negative open cylinder. The droplets here are left with a dearth of electrons making the droplets on this side positively charged.
As the charges build up in the cans below, so does the strength and "influence" of the electric fields, so the rate of charge transfer increases exponentially. The process only ceases when there is electrical leakage or a breakdown somewhere, such as due to an arc, or else the attraction between the water droplets and the cylinders becomes so high that the droplets are pulled to the cylinders rather than falling into the collecting cans below, or the droplets are sufficiently repelled from the collecting cans such that the droplets no longer enter the cans at all. The only thing limiting the ultimate voltage is one or more of these processes. Following a discharge arc, the charging process starts all over again from any tiny bit of unbalanced charge left in the system. 🙂
Very good demonstration - thanks.
Great experiment ! I really appreciate you taking the time to show me.
You're welcome! I made it exclusively for you ;-)
good to know about the hampering effect of relative humidity.
Yeah. If you live in a jungle it would probably never work.
@@PlaywithJunk well, you could always encase the contraption in a humidity-controlled enclosure.
Wow how quick you built that and it works! I always wanted to built such thing myself and i never came to it, but now i saw how easy you did it, now my start will be much easier!
Reálly great built and a joy to watch, so thanks for uploading!
Yeah I was a bit surprised myself that it worked on first try ;-) But I built 3 of them and they all worked. It seems the design is very tolerant to variations.
Great diy I have ever seen
Keep up the good grad attire
God bless this earth and all
Excellent!
You have to allow the water to completely fall thru the lower containers. While it does work as you have it. Collecting the water in the lower cans is not as efficient.
I don't think the water droplets are being negatively charged while they're falling. They're most likely already negatively charged as they come out of the spout.
I'm pretty sure that the positively charged bottomless can (or other charged conductive ring) is repelling the positive charges and attracting negative charges *_in the tube above it._*
Or creating negatively charged water crystals as it falls after all water is permanently in a state of lattice regardless of its physical state.
@@sebastianstewart6894 fluids (including gas) cannot be in a lattice by definition. Any lattice structure would manifest itself as a solid.
@@Falcrist
That's exactly what's happening. This experiment sorts the ions that are already in the water. The water ions (OH- and H3O+) are distributed throughout the water. Isolated ions create no charge because they don't have enough voltage to overcome the insulating properties of the water. They are either attracted or repelled by either of the upper cans and so accumulate in the lower cans to the point where they create a negative charge on one side and a positive charge on the other.
neat to see it lighting up that bulb, very impressive apparatus.(wonders what a couple of these in series would look like) make a 40 watt generator :)
40 Watts... you can be happy to get 40 Milliwatts :-) But what I'd like to know is what happens if you use a showerhead and larger cans or buckets.
@@PlaywithJunk ruclips.net/video/698F700PM2Y/видео.html
@@unition2226 That video is pretty impressive!
I know from an old book that steam will also work as a medium for such a generator.
might be a great addition to mini kct turbines in series. might even be a way to get the voltage up faster and even pull it from the air using an antenna.
What kind of capacitor would be suitable. 400V 100nF X2 metal film filter cap? Would an high quality low ESR electrolytic work or would that be too leaky?
At least your video shows the electrostatic discharge. Other video's are just dripping water.
Without hearing and seeing the spark, a video makes no sense. ;-)
The reason water droplet is charged is because the positive charge in the tune drag negative charge to right in the water pipe. The other side will be positive.
Veritasium demonstrated a similar effect with a charged plastic cup under faucet. Charge of the cup repels same polarity ions in water, which then like to stay within the water pipe system. Opposite ions get thru, and droplets are attracted to the cup.
Speeded up church bells sounds like a warn signal at a railway crossing :-)
P.S.: adding salt to the water allow to check correlation between liquid conductivity and generator efficiency.
I have seen tests of that. Seems not to make much difference.
Very interesting making electricity from water.
Have you never heard of a water battery?
You forgot the capacitors like lyden jars.
In the process of trying to do this with a water pump and return the collector back to the tap.
I once tried to attach a small capacitor. It took too long to charge so I lost my patience :-) Maybe it never charged up because of the leakage of the cap.
Groovy
Pretty
Very interesting. Two questions:
1. what effect does increase the length of the hallow CAN have on the charge?
2. does the water have to be droplets to work, or continues water stream will also work?
Thanks.
I can only answer the second question. A continuous stream of water would connect and short out the two polarities. Whatever you use (water, marbles, snow) it must be in small pieces to maintain electrical insulation.
1) The length of the bottomless can won't matter except in that it will pull the water off course (especially if you don't have a spark gap). If the water hits the bottomless can, it will start to negate the built up charge.
2) The water must be droplets
@@Falcrist Quite right on that. I built a version of this with insulated upper cylinders for exactly that reason.
IF you take a high speed camera , with longer jars you will notice the water will actually slow down then when it discharges it speeds back up again ,,, this is magnetic resistance. Just like you have in an alternateor generator. THEY USE gas engines because they have the power to push the flow of current needed in a circuit,, like your car. Static charges can BEND water. rub a balloon on your head and stick it next to a slowly flowing faucet.... SEE how it bends the water towards the balloon. continuous flow of water works best. Same principle goes for dropping a magnet down a copper tube ,,,,, it will slow down as it reaches the bottom, then when it discharges it will speed up again. IT creates a MAGNETIC resistance. This Also applies to Static charges ........ BUT when placing a static charge into wire of todays electricity will create a short. It is like plugging in a wimhurst machine into 120 outlet...... IT WILL trip the master fuse and or blow the fuse.
Would be cool to see the cherge buildup on some meter :)
The voltage involved is probably on the order of 10,000V. He may not have a meter that goes that high lol.
Also, measuring voltage would probably disrupt the process of charge buildup.
U can connect self made electroscope!
fine sand.
I don't know if sand works (try it out!) but I definitively know that steam would work. In an old book I saw a picture if a steam powered static electricity generator. And I saw that machine personally in a museum.
The disadvantage of steam is that air humidity will rise quickly when it's used. This will prevent many experiments from working.
Kind of a dumb question but what happens when you drink the positive charged water or the negative, does the influence have any effect on the water properties??
I know what you mean, but it it not possible to drink charged water. As soon as you touch the container, the charges will equalize and disappear. Except you believe in the "water memory".... But then any water that falls from a storm cloud would have the same properties. The charges there are much stronger (see lightning).
Hmm...Interesting🤔
Indeed... :-)
just looked at it in a simulation in my mind, and it turns out the top rings act like a capacitor/attractor. they are charged attracting the charge. most charge however stays in the water so due to gravity it falls down and does not touch the ring. also because the ring is round so that it doesn't bend the water. the air acts as a isolator, but the cans at the bottom have direct contact and so conduct well and the charge is stored/transfered to equalize it with the opposite capacitor ring.
that said the effect would be a lot stronger if you used tubing that works as a great high voltage insulator and build a piece of the ring directly around the end, adding a top load around the upper ring also increases maximum power generation due to the stronger pulling force. the end however needs to be like a cone to prevent the charge from keeping it in the tube. there is a maximum realistic charge per water molecule however and that might be reached quite rapidly so making the capacitive force to strong would be a waste since it can also bring negative effects and takes longer to start properly.
KELVIN "GENERATOR" IS a FAKE! they charge water in a lower jar significantly with the Wimshurst machine!!!
Nice project, you should try to generate electricity from tap water in your sink.
Attaching a turbine with a generator would be much more effective.
And still you'll pay more for water than you pay for electricity
The presentation is good!
Derivation is incorrect!
So tell me what's wrong...
@@PlaywithJunk The surface of the starting water is very small. (1liter 6dm2 = 60'000mm2) The total surface of the water droplets is huge. (In case of 0.1mm drop diameter, the surface is 2'000'000mm2) This is missing.
Therefore, the charge separation occurs. Water is a dielectric!
Could you make the top cans thinner and longer to improve the charge time?
I have seen Kelvin generators with only a ring of wire. I think a shorter tube will concentrate more charges in a smaller area... But why not try it?
It's dependant on the static field being produced in the upper cans. Static charges like broad, curved surfaces so I suspect that diameter is more important than length.
There must not be droplets inside the upper cans. There must be a continued water flow, so, an opposite charge will go to water in an opposite upper can freely. A speed of this flow is managed so, into a bottom can droplets arrive, preventing an electrical current appear. And so that's why a charge increases.
If I understand you right..... If the water flows faster than the electrons (which are very slow) even a constant stream would not cause a problem.?
Yeah I think that could be tried. Let me know about the results :-)
@@PlaywithJunk A particular electron speed does not matter. As one electron just start "moving away" at an end of one can, another electron "appears" at an end of the other can immediately, because of electrical field and speed of light. My explanation was about providing a continuous "water wire", while water is inside the upper cans, and then it can be separated into drops
@@sc0or Ah Ok... well I doubt that makes a big difference.
I once saw a video where they used a shower head to create multiple streams of water. That increased the power quite a bit.
I think with a lot more water and a turbine you'd get a lot more energy out. ;) same way flour mills used to blow up, nice static arc across the flour dust.
More water and a turbine sounds like a conventional hydro power plant. The trick of the Kelvin machine is that it has no moving parts.
@@PlaywithJunk Except the water.
Basically that is how the Egyptians recharged their batteries for their light bulb.
Maybe :-) But I assume they used non-recharchable batteries back then.
@@PlaywithJunk No it is a fact ,,they did. why don't you make one and do it yourself and you shall see for yourself . do not believe me. Just DO IT.
@@rayamundson8394 With the generator I built, it would take 100 years to charge a coin cell battery... :-)
@@PlaywithJunk YOU never tried it now did you. TRY IT watch ,do not believe me.
@@rayamundson8394 nice assumption. Backed by not a thing. Why don't you do it and stop bothering this guy with your inability to socialize properly as just another smell being emitted from that basement you reside.
Spring water has 20x more static electricity than recycled city water
How about distilled water??
Nice setup! The charge is transferred onto the droplets already _before_ they leave the tube. There is no way how they otherwise should loose or gain charge in this arrangement. This is also shown in other online explanations of this experiment. See for example en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_water_dropper
That wiki explanation makes sense to me. However if the charge starts to separate at the T of the pipe it seems to me that it would short out if a metal pipe is used. Some of the descriptions and photos have a metal pipe used.
@@Kezat it's enough if the charge is repelled/attracted from/into the drop exactly when it forms at the end of the pipes, just before separating. But once the drop is in the air there is no way how it under the given conditions could be affected when falling through the rings.
The rings are effectively forming a Farady cage through which the drop falls - the inner volume of the rings should be free from any electrostatic field. This theory could be tested by swapping out the upper cylinders with cylinders of different height and diameter, even just a wire ring - this should not significantly change the function of the apparatus.
Could minerals added to the water affect the charge of the system.
That’s a good question. Somebody should try it out 😉
Church bells? I though I won the jackpot at the slots
Connect a RAM pump in Order to get the water Back Up again 👍 please 🙂
That doesnt work...
Excellent demo, thank you. Just-a-thought: As the water droplets are charged - see if you can deflect them with a powerful magnet. Bit tricky avoiding the tins though ;) Me thinks with careful consideration (if that works), - you could build (using a coil) - a very high voltage, high impedance water based amplifier. Perhaps 'Lock Down' is getting to me :)
I don't think a magnet would work. But a deflection plate with high voltage, like in an oscilloscope tube will do. In fact the upper ring starts to deflect the droplets when voltage builds up. Sometimes so much that the drops fall outside the lower can.
But I can't see the amplifier idea.... what would you amplify with that?
Fascinating, if one could make the high voltage proportional to the dripping water deflection (in some way?), or perhaps variable drip flow rate - it would be an amplifier (of sorts). Musical sparks - well that was my odd thinking :) Just another thought: Would it work with dyed, coloured water + deflection, would be great visually. And, does it work with deionised water - could the water be returned (via small pump), to the bottle? All-in-all a great demonstration, thank you.
@@beamer.electronics I suspect that is would still work with deionised water because water ions, which are what drives this, are forming and dissipating constantly.
@@TonyGrant. Interesting stuff, thank you.
If you used a copper cup for the negative and aluminum for the positive than it would produce a greater charge.
certainly not. The polarity of tha charge does not depend on the used material but on the initial charge at start. Charges don't care what material they're on.
Meeting with your defense of self Makes it all go around to get to the better side of townknown Equation. Show me more
Please beg to your infinity
I'm sorry but I don't understand. Did you translate from chinese?
"TERMINATOR"
kan je er een batterij mee desulferen?
Please write english...
No you can't de-sulfatize a battery with that generator. It is almost not possible to make a neon lamp glow. It is too weak for anything else.
Can you try and inductor in that circuit ?
For what purpose? To make the discharge pulse longer?
The problem is that the generator is extremely weak. Adding more components will probably overload it.
Do you eat the canned food first
I only use cans I emptied myself... :-)
Please speak up to examine
The complexity that project
Performance perfection
Let us go
Works
At doing what
Did someone said "marbles"? :)
A very simple and efficient set up and a nice use of junk too!
I believe you are mistaken about the source of the charge. My understanding is that this experiment sorts the ions that are already in the water.
The water ions (OH- and H3O+) are distributed throughout the water. Isolated ions create no charge because they don't have enough voltage to overcome the insulating properties of the water. They are either attracted or repelled by the charged fields in either of the upper cans and so are drawn into one of the nozzles, pass through, and accumulate in the lower cans to the point where they overcome the resistance of the water, creating a negative charge on one side and a positive charge on the other.
It probably sorts other types of ions present in the water also. I have always wondered if trying it with salt water (or some other ionic additive) might increase the charge.
bullshit conspiracy level of crap!
Why cross the wires to the other side?
Didn't you watch the explanation?
@@PlaywithJunk I guess I will RE-listen lol
Was it’s das????
do you think i could make a big earth battery to power a crypto mining Computer I'm looking into it but I think on what i might need an electrical engineer to help me out.thamks
The church bells are obviously getting to you, just try to stop before making a clockwork robots or something...
I'm not bored I'm remodeling my workshop
The lower cans simply acts as two capacitors...
all surface of this machine acts as a capacitor.
Remove the resistor
... and blow up the bulb... I guess it would not be a happy bulb with 1500-2000 volts passing by...
@@thiesenf, since the pulse is too short i don't think it blow up. In fact, when the resistor arcs essentially isn´t there.
This generator will never blow up anything. You wouldn't even feel the arc when touching the sparkgap. I tried it... ;-) It barely has enough energy to make the bulb light up.
Resistance is futile :-) Did you see how the arc jumped the resistor? It doesn't matter if it is there or not.
Why so fast and that heavy breathing
He sped up the video... and the camera microphone just happened to be positioned near his mouth...
I just forgot to add some music the sped up video....