Excellent review, like all the ones I've seen on this channel. I have 2 of the smart trainers that you have reviewed, the Magene T300, which presents the same problem that you noticed, that when increasing the resistance, it overestimates the power, and the Thinkrider X5, which, as in the tests that appear in this video, it scores a little less power for me than the Powertap P1 pedals, which is consistent with energy loss from chain rubbing. I've had the Thinkrider X5 for 1 week, and what has surprised me is that it now measures cadence, and with excellent precision. I knew that the manufacturers of this smart trainer had not achieved an accurate estimation of the cadence, but apparently by updating the app, they have managed to do so, with some algorithm.
Hey @gplama I've now spent about 40hrs on this trainer, mainly doing structured workouts. Received the unit in January, updated the firmware and the cadence had been fixed. There's been one more firmware update since then which set the erg mode smoothing to on by default and minor other fixes. I think it's well worth another visit
Nice one llama. I've been using the x5 since Christmas been pretty good , nice to hear from an expert I made not too bad a decision. I bought direct in England £580 terrible customer service but the unit seems ok
Great and comprehensive review as ever. Despite the shortcomings, it's interesting to see a pretty decent baseline of function and accuracy that's not terrible for the price. If they correct a few of those issues via firmware, this seems like a decent option for those with access. Can't wait to see the remaining reviews :D
UPDATE: firmware has sorted cadence. I took a punt on one of these for £250 Black Friday deal after my Elite Direto after 4 years of hammering. My wife asked what was wrong with it because it didn’t sound like a washing machine…my direto had been eating itself alive for a good year now. I’m really impressed. I don’t race anymore and for the odd Zwift session It seems fine. I will be happy if I get two years out of it at that price. We will see. Will update if I get issues. Cheers Lama. Maybe let folk know it has cadence now as that nearly stopped me purchasing.
@@bluemosquito let me know what you think. I’m quite happy with mine. Nice smooth feel and no noise. Good enough for me as long as it lasts. I got spacers and all that stuff with mine so doddle to build.
I've just got one of these for £220 as a black Friday deal. Previously had an elite zumo before which I believe is a lower tier model to the direto. I've not opened it yet but did yours come with a cassette? Thanks
100% on Cycliq not stepping up with a competitive option. I'd love to see competition in this space but I have no idea where it's going to come from. 🤷♂️ Great detailed review Shane! 👏
Thanks for the in-depth review, always enjoy your comprehensive look at trainers. It might be useful to keep in mind the power accuracy when comparing it to the trusted sources. So if the other 2 power meters read 250W but the power meter being reviewed is 245W. That's within the error for one that claims 2% and a nice way to maintain an objective and quantitative perspective.
Fair point, but it is difficult to quantify without then digging deeper and deeper. There’s a lot more I could add in that’ll blow these out to hour long videos. My flywheel speed test section only scratches the surface of the power/speed accuracy testing that should be done. The accuracy depends on the flywheel speed used. It’s both within spec and way off at the ‘same’ watts using different gears. Most smart trainers need a reference table for owners to get the best from their equipment. Something I’ve only seen (privately and unpublished) from one smart trainer company. Then there’s the sprints that the X5-Neo just isn’t anywhere near spec.
@@gplama yes you are definitely right about the accuracy for this trainer. That power smoothing combined with the poor sprint readings are deal breakers in my book. I meant more generally but I see your point that the amount of detail for that is excessive. Thank you for responding to the comment. I rarely experience that with other creators.
@Shane Miller - GPLama I love your reviews, they are technical, shrewd and I perceive impartiality. It would be great to review the X7 Pro (4gen) or redo this unit after software updates. They included cadence (estimated) and altered some power measurement intervals (on X5 and X7 models). Buyer reports in marketplaces and forums reviews are conflicting, praise for the ThinkRideer X7 Pro (4Gen) is the majority. But the evaluations are not exempt, the praise can be the unfounded reflection of a nice experience with the trainner. I took a chance on the X7 Pro, that is on the way, and would greatly appreciate your review. Greetings and keep up the good work!
@@hebertokano, só via sua msg agora. Chegou em poucos dias,comprei pela loja oficial deles no Ali, que possui unidades já no Brasil. Bom que não há chance de surpresa com impostos. Estou 100% satisfeito com ele. Funciona perfeitamente com todos aplicativos e o seu app nativo também é bom para refazer suas rotas ou outras que baixar o GPX. Também pode conectar direto no Garmin. O fato de ter 5º de jogo lateral torna a experiência bem melhor, traz mais conforto e aproxima da sensação de pedalar na rua. Alegam ser melhor para quadros em carbono que não foram projetados para este tipo de estresse, só meu garfo é de carbono... Quanto a interatividade achei que funciona muito bem, meu termômetro foram as rotas que faço habitualmente e repliquei no rolo. Só não tenho outro potenciômetro para medir a precisão, pela experiência do vídeo acima está dentro das especificações do fabricante. Recomendo fortemente. Silencioso, consigo usar a qualquer hora sem incomodar minha esposa (que é chata com barulho) e minha filha de 2 anos, ambas nos quartos ao lado. Já tive rolo TacX Vortex que não é direct, fazia bem mais barulho. Assistência técnica parece ser eficiente se curte o modo "faça você mesmo", em caso de necessidade enviam a peça e o link do vídeo demonstrando como substituir. Em foruns não vi relatos de quebra. Se quer mais segurança quanto a assistência, recomendo o Cyclotronics projetado e produzido por brasileiros. Não peguei ele porque preferir me arriscar pagando menos por um produto que me pareceu melhor. Mas acho ser uma boa opção também. Os da TacX mais simples não recomendo, há relatos de superaquecimento, problema que não existe no X7. Já comprou o seu?
I am an intermediate level cyclist, I want to buy a trainer for training, I saw the thinkrider x5 and I liked it, it would be my first trainer, another option is to buy the Tacx Flux 2 but it is more expensive and I don't know if paying more money is justified. I have the doubt if the Flux 2 is much superior. Greetings from Argentina
I just found one pretty cheap on fb marketplace, so I did a few search (thats how I am here) It seems like is a no brainer to me - I am not an experienced rider, but it would be great to use a few hours EGR riding per week in winter.
Interesting that they called it the x5-neo, knowing full well that people (as you did in this review) would just shorten it to "neo" when there already is a trainer with a good reputation called the neo in the marketplace... Whenever I see these kind of copyright shenanigans I get immediately suspicious
If anything it would be a trademark infringement not copyright but a quick check shows that Tacx is a registered trademark but Neo is not, probably because it’s not distinct enough.
@@uk-expat yeah I wasn't even thinking about the legal aspect, more just the consumer perception. Riding on someone else's years of goodwill is suspicious.
Thanks for the review. Would u tell me about durability? After how long km should you think to replace some fast moving part? Is it easy to get those part?
Has anyone else experienced massive under-reporting of watts? They also seem to be all over the place, despite consistent pressure on the pedals. I'm comparing to single sided Stages, so not ideal, but I have a fair idea of the FTP my peers are at, so I know it is under-reporting.
A quick check shows that Tacx is a registered trademark but Neo is not, probably because it’s not distinct enough. So probably no chance of a successful claim for trademark infringement.
Looking on Google there seems to be a Thinkrider X5-2 and a Thinkrider X5 Neo. Is there a difference between the two? All I can see is the X5-2 has black feet while the Neo has silver.
Direct drive is usually a better experience than a wheel on trainer…. If the power (especially the sprints) could be improved on the X5Neo then it’d be a better option than the SNAP.
Hey, Shane! I saw on Instagram Stories that you tried out Silca's SS lube. Could you share how you applied it? It looked like you dropped the chain in the tub, shook it, and let the chain drip dry before putting it on the bike.
I'll do a full Super Secret 101 video soon. In the meantime the chain prep (from new) is covered here: ruclips.net/video/3jGFIusBfck/видео.html The tub method just saves having to drip the SS lube onto each link.
hello. can you tell me if I connect a thinkrider trainer to a garmin watch, will I get my workout on strava with a zwift gps track or not? how do I connect it to get gos tracks on strava and that exact workout on garmin connect without getting duplicates?
Hi Shane. After a major BLE FTMS Zwift update, both of my test units (X7 Pro and X2) lost the ability to change the resistance in SIM mode. Can you check the current situation with the X5?
The X5 was tested on April 27th and 28th using the Companion App (BLE) to Zwift. Control in SIM and ERG worked as expected. Not sure if that'll be any different using BLE direct to Windows/Mac... or how the other models handle BLE FTMS. Looking at the BLE properties of the X5 with LightBlue there's no FTMS services listed. Ultimately one for Zwift support to nail.
@@gplama IMVHO resistance changes in SIM are very low. Few minutes ago i was try to ride in London tunel with +/-15% grade, change was only from ~200W to 280W with the same cadence. SIM now works only with Windows BLE, I must check with ZC app. Last question, what TD setting you use?
@@gplama I understund. I check my strava and my estimated power is around 200-250W for rides even for longer rides (100km+). I want trainer for winter and rainy days so I can stay fit and loose some weight.
@@grobbosixtyone It is not necessary to make your bike level on a Kickr. In fact it will make it not level. Other trainers who use a block like this one will not be level if you do not use it.
Hi @shanemiller … I recently bought the X5 after your extensive review … it’s my first ‘wheel off’ trainer … only had the little old Tacx Flow before. Just wanna ask … is it normal for a wheel off trainer to have less power at high gear (larger cogs) compared to wheel on? … also, I’m finding it hard to steady the readouts compared to wheel on where I could pedal consistently … or it it my basic cycling or a characteristic of wheel off trainers that you have to work hard to be consistent? … many thanks for any advice (if all the above makes sense! Lol)
Buy cheap, buy twice. Seems to be the case with smart trainers for people who really get into indoor cycling. What's the chance that this company is going to be around in 5 years when you need a replacement part? Or you change bikes and you need an adapter? That's gonna be an expensive paperweight.
I’ve been through 3 trainers from Wahoo and Tacx that have all failed in the past 5 years, and unable to get parts. At least I can call them to get a discount on a new trainer, but it’s still an industry wide problem.
@@DanKolan What trainer from Tacx ? My Neo (OG) is more than 5 years old and I bought spare parts just in case but I haven't needed them since everything is working as day one.
Excellent review, like all the ones I've seen on this channel. I have 2 of the smart trainers that you have reviewed, the Magene T300, which presents the same problem that you noticed, that when increasing the resistance, it overestimates the power, and the Thinkrider X5, which, as in the tests that appear in this video, it scores a little less power for me than the Powertap P1 pedals, which is consistent with energy loss from chain rubbing. I've had the Thinkrider X5 for 1 week, and what has surprised me is that it now measures cadence, and with excellent precision. I knew that the manufacturers of this smart trainer had not achieved an accurate estimation of the cadence, but apparently by updating the app, they have managed to do so, with some algorithm.
Congratulations. Let the analysis of the X7 Generation 4 come!
Hey @gplama I've now spent about 40hrs on this trainer, mainly doing structured workouts.
Received the unit in January, updated the firmware and the cadence had been fixed.
There's been one more firmware update since then which set the erg mode smoothing to on by default and minor other fixes.
I think it's well worth another visit
So, atm, is reading the cadence and the power reading is more accurate?
Nice one llama. I've been using the x5 since Christmas been pretty good , nice to hear from an expert I made not too bad a decision. I bought direct in England £580 terrible customer service but the unit seems ok
Did your X5 come with the thru axle adapters and a cassette?
No mate just the qr option 👍
@@gplamaI bought it in Romania and it had the thru axle adapters in the box. No cassette.
Great and comprehensive review as ever. Despite the shortcomings, it's interesting to see a pretty decent baseline of function and accuracy that's not terrible for the price. If they correct a few of those issues via firmware, this seems like a decent option for those with access. Can't wait to see the remaining reviews :D
UPDATE: firmware has sorted cadence. I took a punt on one of these for £250 Black Friday deal after my Elite Direto after 4 years of hammering. My wife asked what was wrong with it because it didn’t sound like a washing machine…my direto had been eating itself alive for a good year now. I’m really impressed. I don’t race anymore and for the odd Zwift session It seems fine. I will be happy if I get two years out of it at that price. We will see. Will update if I get issues. Cheers Lama. Maybe let folk know it has cadence now as that nearly stopped me purchasing.
Nice to hear, I've just taken a punt at the £250 deal too, cadence almost put me off.
@@bluemosquito let me know what you think. I’m quite happy with mine. Nice smooth feel and no noise. Good enough for me as long as it lasts. I got spacers and all that stuff with mine so doddle to build.
Thanks for the heads up. It'd be great to be notified when these updates are published so I can re-test. I'll put this on the list....
I've just got one of these for £220 as a black Friday deal. Previously had an elite zumo before which I believe is a lower tier model to the direto. I've not opened it yet but did yours come with a cassette? Thanks
@@J273 it doesn't come with a cassette.
100% on Cycliq not stepping up with a competitive option. I'd love to see competition in this space but I have no idea where it's going to come from. 🤷♂️ Great detailed review Shane! 👏
Thanks for the in-depth review, always enjoy your comprehensive look at trainers. It might be useful to keep in mind the power accuracy when comparing it to the trusted sources. So if the other 2 power meters read 250W but the power meter being reviewed is 245W. That's within the error for one that claims 2% and a nice way to maintain an objective and quantitative perspective.
Fair point, but it is difficult to quantify without then digging deeper and deeper. There’s a lot more I could add in that’ll blow these out to hour long videos.
My flywheel speed test section only scratches the surface of the power/speed accuracy testing that should be done. The accuracy depends on the flywheel speed used. It’s both within spec and way off at the ‘same’ watts using different gears. Most smart trainers need a reference table for owners to get the best from their equipment. Something I’ve only seen (privately and unpublished) from one smart trainer company.
Then there’s the sprints that the X5-Neo just isn’t anywhere near spec.
@@gplama yes you are definitely right about the accuracy for this trainer. That power smoothing combined with the poor sprint readings are deal breakers in my book. I meant more generally but I see your point that the amount of detail for that is excessive. Thank you for responding to the comment. I rarely experience that with other creators.
@Shane Miller - GPLama I love your reviews, they are technical, shrewd and I perceive impartiality. It would be great to review the X7 Pro (4gen) or redo this unit after software updates. They included cadence (estimated) and altered some power measurement intervals (on X5 and X7 models). Buyer reports in marketplaces and forums reviews are conflicting, praise for the ThinkRideer X7 Pro (4Gen) is the majority. But the evaluations are not exempt, the praise can be the unfounded reflection of a nice experience with the trainner. I took a chance on the X7 Pro, that is on the way, and would greatly appreciate your review. Greetings and keep up the good work!
Seu x7 ja chegou? se sim, poderia me contar a experiência com ele?
@@hebertokano, só via sua msg agora. Chegou em poucos dias,comprei pela loja oficial deles no Ali, que possui unidades já no Brasil. Bom que não há chance de surpresa com impostos. Estou 100% satisfeito com ele. Funciona perfeitamente com todos aplicativos e o seu app nativo também é bom para refazer suas rotas ou outras que baixar o GPX. Também pode conectar direto no Garmin. O fato de ter 5º de jogo lateral torna a experiência bem melhor, traz mais conforto e aproxima da sensação de pedalar na rua. Alegam ser melhor para quadros em carbono que não foram projetados para este tipo de estresse, só meu garfo é de carbono... Quanto a interatividade achei que funciona muito bem, meu termômetro foram as rotas que faço habitualmente e repliquei no rolo. Só não tenho outro potenciômetro para medir a precisão, pela experiência do vídeo acima está dentro das especificações do fabricante. Recomendo fortemente. Silencioso, consigo usar a qualquer hora sem incomodar minha esposa (que é chata com barulho) e minha filha de 2 anos, ambas nos quartos ao lado. Já tive rolo TacX Vortex que não é direct, fazia bem mais barulho. Assistência técnica parece ser eficiente se curte o modo "faça você mesmo", em caso de necessidade enviam a peça e o link do vídeo demonstrando como substituir. Em foruns não vi relatos de quebra. Se quer mais segurança quanto a assistência, recomendo o Cyclotronics projetado e produzido por brasileiros. Não peguei ele porque preferir me arriscar pagando menos por um produto que me pareceu melhor. Mas acho ser uma boa opção também. Os da TacX mais simples não recomendo, há relatos de superaquecimento, problema que não existe no X7. Já comprou o seu?
i can confirm in that in the latest Thinkrider Tools app, the ERG power smoothing can be toggled
Good to know. Thanks for the update. 👌🏼
I am an intermediate level cyclist, I want to buy a trainer for training, I saw the thinkrider x5 and I liked it, it would be my first trainer, another option is to buy the Tacx Flux 2 but it is more expensive and I don't know if paying more money is justified. I have the doubt if the Flux 2 is much superior. Greetings from Argentina
I just found one pretty cheap on fb marketplace, so I did a few search (thats how I am here) It seems like is a no brainer to me - I am not an experienced rider, but it would be great to use a few hours EGR riding per week in winter.
Those lights... electrical tape to cover would be task #1
cool, glad u reviewed the x5 too. Will you be reviewing the x7 pro ver IV soon?
The A1 is the only other ThinkRider trainer I have access to at this point.
Receiving the next trainer right at the end of the video. GPLama is getting very busy.
Is upgrading from tacx smart flow to thinkrider x5 worth it ?
Or keeping tacx smart flow is better ?
Interesting that they called it the x5-neo, knowing full well that people (as you did in this review) would just shorten it to "neo" when there already is a trainer with a good reputation called the neo in the marketplace...
Whenever I see these kind of copyright shenanigans I get immediately suspicious
If anything it would be a trademark infringement not copyright but a quick check shows that Tacx is a registered trademark but Neo is not, probably because it’s not distinct enough.
@@uk-expat yeah I wasn't even thinking about the legal aspect, more just the consumer perception. Riding on someone else's years of goodwill is suspicious.
because there was an older X5 model before this 'neo' one
Thanks for the review. Would u tell me about durability? After how long km should you think to replace some fast moving part? Is it easy to get those part?
Not something I can answer, I haven't put a lot of kms on this trainer since the review.
Hi Shane, i wish my Tacx Neo had Disco. There is usually only the Bluetooth light on 😁 Greetings from Austria 👋
Has anyone else experienced massive under-reporting of watts? They also seem to be all over the place, despite consistent pressure on the pedals. I'm comparing to single sided Stages, so not ideal, but I have a fair idea of the FTP my peers are at, so I know it is under-reporting.
I own this trainer and it is always reads way to low compared to 4iiii and does not respond to racing well, works well with 4iiii as power source tho
How did they get away with the Neo Smart name? You’d think Tacx would have trademarked it originally.
Not sure on that one. It is a little bold of them given the Tacx Neo has been around a lot longer.
Because. China
A quick check shows that Tacx is a registered trademark but Neo is not, probably because it’s not distinct enough. So probably no chance of a successful claim for trademark infringement.
Looking on Google there seems to be a Thinkrider X5-2 and a Thinkrider X5 Neo. Is there a difference between the two?
All I can see is the X5-2 has black feet while the Neo has silver.
No idea sorry. One for ThinkRider support.
For ~$650 (if you can find it at that price) it seems like pretty good value. Would you rather this or a kickr snap?
Direct drive is usually a better experience than a wheel on trainer…. If the power (especially the sprints) could be improved on the X5Neo then it’d be a better option than the SNAP.
Hey, Shane! I saw on Instagram Stories that you tried out Silca's SS lube. Could you share how you applied it? It looked like you dropped the chain in the tub, shook it, and let the chain drip dry before putting it on the bike.
I'll do a full Super Secret 101 video soon. In the meantime the chain prep (from new) is covered here: ruclips.net/video/3jGFIusBfck/видео.html
The tub method just saves having to drip the SS lube onto each link.
Hi, did you have some review in your lama lab test for Oreka 07 smart trainer?
Cheers!!!
Oreka are strange cats. They’ve never been interested in having me put any of their equipment through my test protocol.
I love a good disco all night long.
Have you used it again recently?
Are there any improvements with the software update?
thank you!
I haven't looped back to this, no.
Are Shimano Ultegra 12 sk compatible with the kit drum?
Yes
hello. can you tell me if I connect a thinkrider trainer to a garmin watch, will I get my workout on strava with a zwift gps track or not? how do I connect it to get gos tracks on strava and that exact workout on garmin connect without getting duplicates?
No GPS track from the trainer to the watch. Zwift generates 'fake' GPS data that's uploaded to Strava.
@@gplama so there wont be duplicate uploads if I connect zwift both to strava and garmin?
There will be duplicates if you dual-record using two different devices.
@@gplama thanks mate
Hi Shane. After a major BLE FTMS Zwift update, both of my test units (X7 Pro and X2) lost the ability to change the resistance in SIM mode. Can you check the current situation with the X5?
The X5 was tested on April 27th and 28th using the Companion App (BLE) to Zwift. Control in SIM and ERG worked as expected. Not sure if that'll be any different using BLE direct to Windows/Mac... or how the other models handle BLE FTMS. Looking at the BLE properties of the X5 with LightBlue there's no FTMS services listed. Ultimately one for Zwift support to nail.
@@gplama IMVHO resistance changes in SIM are very low. Few minutes ago i was try to ride in London tunel with +/-15% grade, change was only from ~200W to 280W with the same cadence. SIM now works only with Windows BLE, I must check with ZC app. Last question, what TD setting you use?
100% TD
Hi. do you think that this trainer is viable for 1-by bike with front chainring 40T? Thanks!
Impossible to give a yes/no answer on this. It depends on the rider and type of riding you’ll do.
@@gplama I understund. I check my strava and my estimated power is around 200-250W for rides even for longer rides (100km+). I want trainer for winter and rainy days so I can stay fit and loose some weight.
Llama am I better buying a trainer or power meter pedals or crank power meter running ultegra
Entirely up to you. It's similar to asking if a builder needs a hammer or a saw, it depends what they're building. :)
@@gplama thanks for reply gunna get pedals so I can swap between mtb and road bike
Wonder if another German company is preparing to litigate over the use of X5. Feels like it has about the same basis as a chevron lawsuit.
A directly competitive product using a very similar name for many years has a much stronger trademark claim
@@enki42ea sarcasm is dead, the internet killed it.
@@velokicks312 I'd say it's more reality killed it when real stuff is just as crazy as the sarcastic stuff
@@enki42ea I think you're still proving my point here ;)
I can get a X7 Generation 4 trainer new for £230 new.. I that a good deal?
That depends if you want a cheap trainer, or a good trainer.
I want a good trainer for cheap :D@@gplama
Why do they design it so it requires a block under the front wheel? I think that is dumb.
So the wheel doesn’t shift from side to side when you’re riding
@@grobbosixtyone Why prevent that? The Kickr doesn't require one.
Maybe to facilitate a 'steering' device for Zwift??
@@donwinston I used to have a gen1 Kickr and still had the front wheel on a block so it's down to personal preference
@@grobbosixtyone It is not necessary to make your bike level on a Kickr. In fact it will make it not level. Other trainers who use a block like this one will not be level if you do not use it.
Which is better? X5 or t300?
Let’s go with neither. Look at a Kickr Core.
the plastic cover will start creaking and drive you crazy
So many of these trainers look like Wahoo product clones with a different casing around them.
And with more disco! 🕺🏻🪩💃🏼
@@gplama Wahoo only do DSCO!
Hi @shanemiller … I recently bought the X5 after your extensive review … it’s my first ‘wheel off’ trainer … only had the little old Tacx Flow before. Just wanna ask … is it normal for a wheel off trainer to have less power at high gear (larger cogs) compared to wheel on? … also, I’m finding it hard to steady the readouts compared to wheel on where I could pedal consistently … or it it my basic cycling or a characteristic of wheel off trainers that you have to work hard to be consistent? … many thanks for any advice (if all the above makes sense! Lol)
Buy cheap, buy twice. Seems to be the case with smart trainers for people who really get into indoor cycling. What's the chance that this company is going to be around in 5 years when you need a replacement part? Or you change bikes and you need an adapter? That's gonna be an expensive paperweight.
I’ve been through 3 trainers from Wahoo and Tacx that have all failed in the past 5 years, and unable to get parts. At least I can call them to get a discount on a new trainer, but it’s still an industry wide problem.
@@DanKolan What trainer from Tacx ? My Neo (OG) is more than 5 years old and I bought spare parts just in case but I haven't needed them since everything is working as day one.
Any idea if this works with a Kickr Climb? Wahoo website seems to suggest the Climb only works with Wahoo trainers.
It won't.