Worst Electrical Mistake You Can Make - Backfeeding Generators
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2022
- Companies selling these cords should be stopped. Is backfeeding safe? Is backfeeding legal? How can you safely connect a generator to your house.
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Back at it again with some solid advice. Keep it up bud
You got it keep doing what your doing.👍
Now i am in agreement with everything you are saying. And yes back feeding with a generator can cause problems with line crews working on a supposedly dead line. But that why us lineman have a saying, if it aint grounded it aint dead. When we throw ground on a line that a generator is backfeeding the generator will die immediately. Safety first on our end.
Yea… I think you’ve just earned a subscriber.
lol lol 😆😆😆 ii
Gotta be honest, I did this in 2007 during the massive ice storm that hit the Pacific Northwest. We were out of power for over a week that time. The storm actually knocked down one of the high voltage towers that comes into town, so the power outage was expected to be prolonged. Some areas didn't get it back for 12 days. That said, I did throw my main, and actually disconnected some circuits inside my panel so I could power some 240 directly like my well pump. Water was cold, but at least it was running. Local public power was super cool about it when they started coming around to reconnect lines. They did a house to house inspecting panels because they knew people had done what they needed to. They actually quickly rewired the few things I had modified. Now I have a proper generator panel in the works. As much as I know how to do it safely, I don't ever want to have to do it again.
Listen I am not the judge. When your life depends on it people do things. The ate each other in the Andes to survive so does the NEC matter more? Nope. BUT the difference here is people go out and buy a generator and most take no steps to prepare the hookup, planning that nothing will ever happen. Then the same folks do a backfeed and cause problems or even death, which has happened. So my take on it is if you buy a generator for your own house, take the extra step and do it the right way and as a channel creator it's crazy to not instruct people to do things the safest way and I have shown many transfer switches so I hope this will inspire some to use the transfer switch or interlock. I personally always did since my wife was the one at home and I am was at work, and she just isn't technical enough to avoid a mistake, so the transfer switch is foolproof and we lose power a lot.
I had never seen such a thing until I moved out of the North West down to New Orleans. I had a guy working for me who had just finished a stint in federal prison -- it saved our bacon on that remodel, but I would never do it, again.
@Game Plays 1230 most homeowners don't purchase a generator that big. If you don't shed load, in addition to opening the main, the generator is going to fail.
@Game Plays 1230 the outlet is still protected by a breaker rated to protect it when in normal use.
Risks from back feeding to street, and double ended cords are valid, but there's no more risk to the outlet backfeeding from a 30 amp generator through a 20 amp breaker/15 receptacle than there is trying to run a 30 amp load through a 20 amp breaker/15 amp receptacle
100% would do the same, Grandpa taught me just the same things if I ever needed to run a generator
I used to remove trees from power lines and this was one of the biggest dangers. One time I was dragging some branches and noticed that the dead line was still sparking, turned out that the local police had hooked a generator up to traffic light but didn't disconnect it from the grid. When this happens the voltage gets stepped up to the full distribution voltage.
Yikes
thats not really the same but you probably wouldnt know why and lot to explain
@@kevinalmeida7159 it's literally exactly what's happening here, the transformer on the pole steps the voltage back up to 12kv. There was a transformer on a pole that the traffic light was hooked up to. We used to listen for generators for this exact reason.
@@Aholeintheozone ok but that canister has more than just a transformer it a switch box if line comes in it is diverted to all locations tied into it and its intended to have 1 way flow to prevent every home on grid to suffer spikes or shortages you can tap in with a gen but that gen cant power the city it can only power to the diverter if the gen was close enough to your work to show sparks on a bad like it can have a few reasons like location to diverter or faults. would have to know all the details or diagnostics but line workers have to have safety from flow lust because the power was cut doesnt mean home owners are not doing something crazy so these diverters are meant to flow 1 direction and a line worker can and should loop a home line to ground till service is complete so any attempts to energize a home line trips gen braker before it can injure a worker because most homes dont have lock out tag out procedures
@@kevinalmeida7159 some might be designed to flow one way but iv personally see a complete dead distribution line arc from generators on multiple occasions.
This happened in my city, there is a meat market with a backup generator and some utility workers had to repair an underground power line nearby, they shut down power in the area after notifying everyone and someone in the meat market turned on the generator but forgot to disconnect it from the main power line, well when they went to fix the line two workers were in the trench they dug to get to the line and one died instantly and the other died later in the hospital.
That's why qualified worker put ground on power wire prior working on it.
That was preventable all the way around. The meat market folks were morons in this matter and the workers should have not assumed the voltage potential to be null.
Total bummer, man!
But don't those cables have ways of being disconnected first before being worked on?
@@alan62036 you have to actually unplug it, rather than just do nothing. Cheers!
I'm a line clearance tree trimmer and, while not from my yard, we've lost a few guys to backfeed. It's a series topic, glad to see good video addressing it.
How do ppl who work on clearing energized lines get hurt from energized lines? Mr logic first? Isn’t it logical to assume power lines have power? Still never heard of this.
@Mrt you do but somebody has to clear fallen lines. And the corporate line is treat all wires as live, and a slew of other precautions/steps. But in the effort of getting a city's power back up mistakes get made and backfeed deaths can occur. But their lives and effort don't need your recognition to have occurred nor does it require you to believe it was due to an improperly connected generator. Hopefully your lucky enough to never experience a situation to prove the matter.
@@logicfirst1041 I’ve picked up down smoking sparking on fire wire. And I’ve picked up dead. It shouldn’t matter. It’s all hot so wether it’s from substation or generator or Tesla plugged in or solar battery bank or magic it doesn’t matter. It’s a power wire, it carries power…. Treat it as such.
@@logicfirst1041 I’ll admit there is a million ways someone can get electrocuted. But like your motto states it’s all hot. I don’t have a problem with these little cords cause honestly if you plugged one of these in to anything. It’s gonna have a breaker. And if the main is closed it’s gonna trip the generator or panel breaker. So it’s just not a thing. We clear lines too. Hot cold dead energized. Smoking non smoking. I’ve been at this a while and I’ve never heard of a backfeed death. It’s one of 10 things I could see resulting in the already obvious same problem. It’s a power line, they carry power…
@@logicfirst1041 to me this is like worrying about getting hit by a motorcycle while playing in the road…. What about cars? Trucks? Etc etc… it’s just not a thing.
When I was a kid, we lived in an area where power outages were frequent. When our house was built, my parents had a hardwired cord for a generator put in with an interlock. The generator wasn't anywhere near powerful enough to run the whole house, so we had essential circuits (Well pump, refrigerator, etc.) marked with some whiteout on the breaker handles. I have many memories of being on "Generator and breaker duty".
There is another risk with back feeding that you didn’t cover, which is reversed polarity. When I was a teenager, I was building a log cabin in the woods, and while I had help from others for heavy stuff like the roof, and complicated stuff like the kitchen cabinets, I was on my own for the electrical wiring. To make my life easier during construction (before the cabin got hooked to the electric grid) I ran a double-male-ended extension cord from my parents’ trailer to one of the outlets in the cabin, and from there it went into the service panel and to the rest of the cabin, allowing me to turn on lights and run power tools. Pretty much immediately after I plugged it it, I noticed I was getting shocks whenever I touched ground screws. That puzzled me, so I got a volt meter and saw 120v between neutral and ground, which made no sense to me at all. So I walked back to the trailer to investigate, and as soon as I opened the door I saw smoke coming from the outlet with the extension cord plugged in. I grabbed a fire extinguisher and unplugged the cord, extinguished the fire, and investigated, and this is what had happened: the trailer, built in 1970, used aluminum wiring, and that particular outlet had been wired backwards (in other words, despite being a grounded outlet, the hot and neutral wires were reversed). So, hot from the trailer’s service panel was going to the neutral on the outlet, the neutral on the extension cord, and (since I’d done my wiring correctly) the neutral bus bar on the cabin service panel, which was bonded to the ground bus bar, which was grounded by a ground rod right outside. The distance from the trailer service panel ground rod to the cabin service panel ground rod was roughly 200 feet (60m) so there was enough resistance that the breaker wasn’t tripping, but the oxidized aluminum wiring in the trailer outlet was none the less overheating, and had I checked 2 minutes later I likely wouldn’t have been able to stop the fire. Ever since then I never trust unknown wiring to be correct, and I always check polarization before I plug in anything that might care about polarity. I have a handy little plug-in circuit tester, shows open neutral, open ground, open hot, and reversed polarity, perfect for a quick reassurance that all is as it should be.
reversed polarity in AC? AC power works by fluctuating between positive and negative at 60 times per second.... What you did was not reversed polarity, you created a short. Always check for previous wiring issues before installing anything new.
@@kyleglenn4132 reversed polarity on ac, lmao
Ground rod does not clear faults. Ur neutral bar connects to ur ground with a Main bonding jumper. When a fault occurs it travels to ur ground and from ground to ur neutral and back to source. Because ground is bonded to everything it has a lot of resistance and causes the breaker to trip in one cycle.
aluminum wire they have a tendency to expand contract due to thermal expansion, prob caused wire to become loose overtime and cause the wire to heat up damaging the insulation and eventually causing a fire. Was common in older houses
@@autodidacticartisan reverse polarity is caused when you wire a receptacle (not just receptacle but for the case of the example) incorrectly, when hot and neutral is flipped it will still function but has risk of potential shock.
@@kyleglenn4132 while you are correct that AC works by alternating the current between positive and negative potentials (it’s right there in the name) there is still a “hot” and “neutral” side to an AC circuit. When wired correctly according to code, when a circuit is open, the electrical potential is on the “hot” wire only (usually a black wire), and the neutral wire (usually white) is not energized. When polarity is reversed, the white neutral wire is energized instead, and while this doesn’t matter in normal operations, it creates a safety hazard in case of a short circuit or other fault, or in the case where the energized wire in one location is connected to the neutral wire in another location. In the United States, plugs for electrical appliances that don’t need a separate ground will have one blade of their plug larger than the other, to ensure that correct polarity is observed when plugged into a polarized outlet.
Thank you. I was actually pondering over this kind of thing and wondering how I could keep the electricity from going out of the home's circuits. Even though it is a BASIC premiss, I didn't think about shutting down the main breaker. It makes total sense now, but it just didn't occur to me as I was casually mulling it over in my mind. I'm going to get one of those Interlocks and get prepared for the frequent outages at our new home. THANKS AGAIN!!!
We had a 30amp breaker wired to ours, and we would install it in the main box when the power went out. With this setup, after killing the main breaker, we could power one bus bar at a time, but with a smaller generator and a basic breaker, we could run the lights and fridge, water pump (no hot water though) and such, while using kerosene heaters in winter when the power was most likely to go out from ice and snow/wind causing treefalls. We simply made 100% sure to always kill the mains before throwing the switch from the genset.
Thank you for this. I work in the trades and am pretty handy guy & I don't like messing with electricity. Back when I was a young man I worked as a paramedic and in 15 years I saw more than a few DIYers electrocute themselves. This may not be exciting but it is necessary knowledge.
My dentist back in the 1980s had his arm blown off in a high voltage accident when he was 20yo. He had a stainless hook that opened and closed. some of his tools were modified also. My sister worked for him as an assistant.
I worked at hotels and apartments as a maintenance guy my whole life. Most of my co-workers had no experience or knowledge about anything,(especially electricity). They almost got me killed several times.
@@Chris_at_Home no way am I letting a dentist with a robot arm near my mouth 😂
@@dirkdiggler9379 He was known as a very good dentist. The claw as you call it allowed him to work quite well without his whole hand in the way. He went on to become a state legislator. They even named the Wasilla Sports Center after him.
@@Chris_at_Home I was just joking I’m sure he’s great 👍🏻
Something that took me a while to understand is that when you backfeed your panel and power goes out onto your house service, you're not just sending out 120v or 240v. As soon as your power hits the transformer that powers your house that voltage is stepped up to thousands of volts. That's important when you don't have power because the primary voltage line that feeds your transformer is broken and laying across your neighbor's metal fence.
Thats why you hit your power cuttof
In Australia we use 240V for general power applications and 3 phase 415V. It is MANDATORY than any generator connected to any building fed by mains power MUST be done through a three position switch if the changeover is to be done manually.
Positions are Mains ON, switch OFF and then Generator ON. That way it's not possible to feed power back into the grid from a generator.
@@bobmarshall3700 its mandatory in US also, but most homeowners don't have a clue. With stuff like this on the market, people will think its the correct thing and won't think to call an electrician like they should
@Shep VanDelay Pull the f*@king meter.
@@jaymes7521 in most places that is illegal. Want the local power company to refuse to reconnect your service until your whole house system is re-inspected? Just cut the seal and remove your meter on your own without getting their approval first…
This is actually a pretty informative video. a few years ago, my parents disconnected the family cabin from the power grid. This was mostly because we only went once or twice a year, but there was a monthly fee that added up. There was also a flat cost to reconnect to the grid.
Instead, my dad would use a double male plug to tap into the neighbor's power, with their permission. It was just for lights and a couple outlets, but things could have gone very wrong. Luckily, they managed to sell the place, so it'll be someone else's problem.
Yea so lucky. Thank god someone else has to deal with that insane ticking time bomb
@@MrT13 To be fair, the new owners can always reconnect to the power grid. I don't think the neighbors will let them do the same thing.
@@jardex2275 they can just use the same cord and buy a generator. It’s not that serious. Just ask your dad.
Nothing goes wrong as long as you shut off the main line back up to the power source.
@@jasonjones6985 and double check polarity.
This is my favorite you tube channel ever, it’s so well said, understandable
Quite awhile ago I had to hook up my generator safely to my home while safeguarding against backfeeding rather than running a heavy extension cord to critical devices. Long story short. I designed a mechanical interlock that looked essentially the same as what is shown in this video. I was ready to fabricate it which wasn’t a big project. Right about that time, while looking up some electrical supplies to purchase, I came across this very same interlock, patented, and offered in various configurations depending on the panel make. It looked exactly the same but prettier! Damn! A great idea too late. I shared my story with the interlock company and they replied that they get the same emails from others who have had the same situation. Har!
there's an exception to the transfer equipment requirement for panels when using temporary connection of a portable generator, so the home-made interlock wasn't even necessary, unless you couldn't lock your panel. Technically using that home-made interlock is against code, since its not approved. They even flag code violations if you buy one and modify it in any way. (NEC fails you if you modify a junction box in any way). but for temporary connection, see the exception:
Article 705.NEC702.6 contains an exception to the transfer equipment requirement:
“Exception: Temporary connection of a portable generator without transfer equipment shall be permitted where conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation and where the normal supply is physically isolated by a lockable disconnecting means or by disconnection of the normal supply conductors.”
@@snap-off5383 when the storm hit here in portugal we were living without power for 2 and a half weeks. I had to do that trick, but i fed the power from the generator straight in the main, disconnect the main cables from the street, put pkugs in them so when the company connects the wires they can't short anything out and that was it. No way to backfeed power when cables are not connected. When the company came to fix the cables i explained it, they said it was no problem and they would take care of it from now as they had to put new seal in my box. All good there
@@snap-off5383 i mean.. I'm not saying what i did was legal, the men told me it was safe and i did a good job. I don't know if it was legal or not... Most of the times they're not going to call the cops on you because they understand the situation...
@@engenhokas69 Cool thanks for the info, glad you kept the power on.
@@engenhokas69 Well yeah you could have stole some electricity, but they have ways to KNOW if your neighborhood stole a LOT of electricity and checking the meters in the neighborhood easily finds the culprit, so they could easily check that to see if you were above board or not.
I have a generator plug and do the exact same process. It's honestly something I don't even think about and would consider basic stuff but sometimes when you hear things explained so simply it puts things back into perspective. Back to the basics type of deal. Good job.
Thanks for pointing this out and showing safe, legal alternatives. In my country it's super easy to make such a cable at home because our plugs are easy to install on any cable and sold at any old hardware store but it's kinda crazy that there's no regulation on the manufactured cables enabling people to buy these deadly cables off the shelf.
Wow, totally awed. The island got hit pretty hard by Fiona and I used this method for the 2 weeks we were without power. Yup, I used that same cord for 2 weeks straight. I shut down the main power and all the fuses in the electrical box except for the kitchen and living room one. Didn’t need to run the whole house just needed the fridge, a fan and power for charging phone, ipad and fan. Now watching this video has me scared to do it again even though I never had an issue using this type of cable with my inverter generator. Thanks for the info.
I have an interlock for my generator. It was maybe $150 in parts and took my Father and I only an hour or so to put in. My Father is a licensed electrician. It really is the cheapest way to safely hook a generator to your house.
Well said. And that install will last a lifetime. Generators change but that hookup won't. I put mine in 10 years ago, and now I can use it, my wife or someone else without worry.
$150 for a piece of stainless and 3 screws? or ar you talking about an entire bespoke breaker panel
Thats a LOT of money for a little aluminium plate and three screws....
I just prefer to use my brain and turn of the main...... doctor...suesse?
@@winddowntime2943 The human brain is completely unreliable.
One of the weirdest dreams I had as a child was one where I saw a backfeeding cable like that, albeit fitted with Type G plugs instead of the Type B plugs you showed as I grew up living in Singapore. This video finally helped me decode and put that strange dream to rest! (RUclips recommended this video to me)
RUclips knows what you have dreamed as a kid.
@@h.celine9303 Yeah, the RUclips algorithm is getting scary now!
Don’t lick the copper tip … it’s spicy
Often it is necessary to specify that something is illegal BECAUSE it is unsafe, in that regard thank you for elaborating the indirect hazards. Having worked at a hardware store it was in our training video that the most common desire for these stupid cords is when someone put their Christmas lights up in the wrong direction. In Virginia and hopefully every other state it is illegal to help someone make one of these things. I have no idea how any company is getting away with selling them.
They can be used as a way to test your system prior to having the main power hooked up as well. Some just talk about the back feeding during an outage but never mention that when you run new lines or update current lines this is a way to do a quick test to see if things are all connected properly prior to having the main electric feed turned on.
Also if the main power is not turned on this is a way to have a temporary electric feed for your power tools as you make other repairs.
many years ago, my dad set up the house to be backfed by a generator, but the solution he used was even worse than a double-male cable. He installed a cable with a male end and a permanently-wired end. It's energized any time we have grid power. When we aren't using a generator, the male end is kept in a locking receptacle which is installed but not wired to anything -- to give some degree of safety.
Creating a safe installation would've required digging a trench to run an underground cable. At the time my dad set up the generator, we probably could've afforded to do that. By the time I was old enough to realize the setup was a major problem, that wasn't the case anymore. We wouldn't exactly die overnight without power, but with how long and frequent power outages are here, we would experience significant hardship if we dismantled the setup. Being able to fix this became farther off when my dad left the family and thus wasn't helping pay for things, and work-from-home means that our livelihood has become dependent on the generator.
A family member has recently started dating a contractor who has been very willing to help with other issues, so I'm hoping we might be closer to getting a safe setup. This video has also reminded me to try again to find ways to get out of the need for the underground cable -- since that's the primary barrier.
You can make it safe(er) by having a cheap interlocking device that doesn't allow you to turn on the generator cord unless mains power is off. Its a few bucks for most home style panels and many electricians can give u advice on how to install it.
@@etucker if it goes in the service panel, it's a no-go until we place that underground cable. The generator shares a breaker with the wellhouse, so as-is, an interlock would cause us to have no access to water except when we are using generator power.
When off, the generator needs to be kept in the wellhouse to avoid theft. In situations where we need to use the generator, we usually won't be able to move it much of the way from the generator to the area near the service panel. The path will be obstructed by heavy snow and tree limbs. It's walkable, but that's about it.
I think we looked into running an extension cable every time the generator was used, but I don't remember what the issue with that was. Service panel is on a post detached from the house and wellhouse, so we'd need to add the generator input to that post or free up one of the underground connections so we can put the input on a building. I want to revisit that because a long, high-power, heavy-duty extension cable is probably significantly less expensive than digging a ditch for an underground one.
@@klikkolee I see your dilemma. I would definitely do the underground cable.. a portable cord is heavy and cost almost the same save for the labor to dig the hole which most people use heavy equip, and is done fairly quickly. Theres a couple things you could do to make it safer in the meantime. Install a switch with a lock on the cover next to the well panel that turns off the generator cord when not in use, and keep that locked off. Label the cord to what its purpose is, so someone unwary doesn't plug it into another live cord (💥) or get zapped. Get the underground done. Last thing you need is someone to get hurt messing with that
Put a high amp switch between the cable and the rest of the house, just turn it off when you're not using the generator
Thanks for sharing this, you seem to really care about the well being and safety of your viewers
About 10 years ago, during the summer of 2012, a derécho blew through our town and knocked out our power for over 16 days. We had no air conditioning or running water... during one of the worst July heatwaves in our history. We lived out in the rural countryside, so we were pretty low priority for the electric company. Generators and camping supplies, even distilled water were all sold out. Luckily, this was a tight-knit southern community, and one of my dad's mechanic buddies loaned us his portable Honda generator, with enough horsepower to run our essential appliances. He let us borrow his pre-made power cable and explained to us how he made it, and step-by-step how to hook it up to our power system. And it saved us.
i was living in a rented house and had to use a "suicide cord" a few times over the years during extended power outages because the owner of the house refused to have an interlock or transfer switch installed, and i wasn't going to live without any power for more than 2-3 days. it works if you know what you are doing but yes, for a typical person who does not know what they are doing it's a bad idea. still, in an emergency situation if i had to do it again, i would. fwiw i work as an industrial maintenance technician so i carry electrical lockout devices with me in my tool bag so i have the ability to put a padlock on any circuit breaker if i need to.
I've always heard a suicide cord referring to a cord with a male end and live wire on the other. idk just my 2 cents I'm sure it varys from region to region
@@RiGHTcoast_REGULAR and if you connect the two wire ends together you have a circuit breaker finder 😉
It’s bad idea to use suicide cord. In an outage coworker loan me a generator with suicide cord. I declined the cord. I bought a generator hook up to wire it up such it will accept 4 prong receptacle. Took couple house. But accidentally touching those prongs will probably ruin my day if not worse. Lol.
"If you know what you are doing". I have encountered many people over the years that think they are professionals on things because they watched a RUclips video.
@@MrChopsticktech I mean, if he’s lock out tag out certified then he probably knows what he’s doing. Especially if it’s NFPA70E
I Agree with the Fact, that Most People Have Lost their COMMON SENSE over the Years. Those People would be Very wise to follow your Advice. For the People left on the Planet that Still Have COMMON SENSE, it’s Perfectly Safe to Back-feed your Home, with using the Breaker Lock Suggested at the End of the Video.
Correct with an interlock it's safe to do and could be done by someone not understanding the steps and they still cant do it wrong which I like.
Stellar video, concise with visual examples!
I do this one step worse. I backfeed a larger 240v cable from my generator to the house during power outages. But, I have a large, separate 200a main disconnect with a large lever that I completely disconnect before I even think of starting up the generator.I also go through my breakers to make sure any very high demand items are taken out of the equation that my generator can't handle. I then periodically check with my voltmeter or neighbors if the power is back on before disconnecting my generator or flipping the main back on. I do take this very seriously and have nothing but respect for not sending any unexpected voltage back up the lines to hydro workers.
Good message. While I've temporarily used something similar only once before, a lapse in judgement doing so could get someone killed.
This was on a house for which the meter was removed, so there was little risk to a line worker.
I worked at a hardware store when I was young and we were expressly forbidden from making male to male cables for customers. And we had at least 2-3 requests for them a week.
I heard that once before from someone and thought it was a myth, I am glad to hear it wasn't. Can you imagine the liability for the store, they would absolutely sue the store after an accident and say... the guy said it would work!
I'm glad that when I worked at a home improvement store, we didn't make cables for people. I wonder how often though the people over in electrical had to deny making a death cable like this though.
See that's where I'd draw the line. If you don't know how or why to make that cable, you shouldn't have one.
I know multiple people who backfeed and they all shut off the breaker.
Laughable example with the RV btw. If you run the generator, that plug on the side is hot. That's why the tell you to never run on gen power while plugged into shore power.
@@piquat1 any RV I've worked on had an outlet that you plugged your main cord into in order to run off the generator, making it impossible to backfeed the mains without making some kind of male to male adapter cable. They might not all be like that, but they absolutely should be.
@@Krankie_V I have a BRAND NEW Coachmen. Not even a year old. If you start the generator without unplugging from shore power you'll pop a breaker. If you look at how it's wired, there literally is NO transfer switch. The shore power and gen output are wired directly to the same bus. Many motor homes are like this. They are basically wired the way this video warns you not to backfeed a panel in your home.
Nice and very instructive .. Love it. These are things I like to learn and keep in mind since i am about to move to my almost finished house in my country ,,, Thanks for sharing this Silver Cymbal
I keep it to an extension cord off my 4500w gen. running into the house. No attempt running through the house breaker box. I plug in our fridge, run lamps and electric skillet for hot food. We made it ten days without power after a massive ice storm. We're lucky to have a wood burning fireplace for heat. Amazing what you can do without and survive. Some would view my approach to this as the chicken way but it works within my own limitations.
Thanks for the PSA. Just my situation and intended for story purposes only.
Made my own cable many years ago. Had a lil' 3500 watt pull start generator. Lost power for 12 days during a NE ice storm ~2008. Shut off all the breakers and the Main 200amp. Back fed a 120v outlet that was on the same phase as the Boiler and only turned on breakers needed on that phase
NOBODY is going to touch the electrical panel but ME. I even put electrical tape over the main so I would have to think twice. But when this power outage situation happens, trust me this is all you think about. They don't sell these cables because some ppl are stupid. Sorry can't go to the neighbors house because they don't have power either or drive anywhere because the roads are closed. 💀
not legal to tape it, you need to LOCK the breaker or panel. Then you're good!
I have an interlock system on my main panel. I highly recommend it. It’s is a lot easier to install and use than putting in a transfer switch.
I ully agree, my panel shown is a little odd since I have that 4 circuit transfer switch but the interlock is what I use for the larger generator. I didn't take the small one out since if for some reason the big geneerator didn't work I could run those 4 individual circuits with a smaller 120v gen
Interlock allows flexibility in using any circuit in the house without the preplanning required in setting up a transfer switch. With the transfer switch you have to decide what you want ahead of time, and can't change it around afterwards without rewiring the breaker panel and transfer switch.
@@wingerrrrrrrrr Why do you have to choose which circuits you want to power with the generator when installing a transfer switch, is that something particular to US wiring? I had a transfer switch installed which replaced the existing mains switch with a 3 position switch. So now it's mains / off / generator, with the generator powering all existing circuits.
@@kaasmeester5903 transfer switches have a limited amount of breakers, and you'd have to pick which ones you're going to back up when installing them. If you have a very small main breaker panel then you could cover them all, but usually houses have a greater number of breakers than the transfer switches cover.
Yours sounds more like an interlock setup with one large breaker rather than the ones with individual breakers.
Short and to the point I love it!
Great video pair, thank you!
Thanks for the super informative videos - although we don’t even own a generator yet it is awesome to know what would be involved to *safely* connect it to our house for power.
Wonder if you might do a video on extension cords in general and demystifying the different gauges/grades. Also, most importantly, what cords don’t kink and/or what are best practices for extension cord maintenance and storage so they aren’t a tangled mess.
As always, thanks for the great videos.
You're back feeding with the 220 cable too. Like you said, the isolation from the main line is the issue. Your double sided plug example with the main breaker off works just the same, only without the safety bar.
Great video. Thank you for that good information
I lost my breaker box during a storm (water seeped into the box) so while they were changing it out I asked about a transfer switch, $200 I had a 6 breaker transfer switch installed and he even made me a 30ft cord to go from my garage to the plug on the back of the house. Used it many times and very easy and convenient.
I used to work at an electronics place and we'd have a few cables lying around with 3-prong male on one end and the other end was stripped with the three wires exposed. They would be used to hook up mains power to the devices we were testing and building. When I was new to the job I mentioned to my boss "That's gotta be the most dangerous thing in the building." He said, "No, _I'm_ the most dangerous thing in this building."
Haha yeah, I worked with similar cables at an electronics factory. It seemed OK because we thought we knew what we were doing. In fact it was just careless and negligent and I got many shocks at that place as did others. It doesn't even save time to do things the wrong way. There is always a safe way if you just think it through.
Ironically by allowing to this happen he was right.
@@arthurfrayn7619 moo moo
Ok I’m. No ok no I
Should have had him prove it by having a one-on-one competition with the cable. There are safe ways to do this kind of thing. I implore everyone to value their life and health higher and not put up with this sort of shit.
Yea cause it’s really just not that serious. Yes to anyone who can’t understand 2 simple instructions yes maybe it’s super duper dangerous …..
I have to be honest. I had to make one yesterday. Had a storm, had no power all day. Got a 1 fridge/freezer and 1 freezer which we had to keep cold. So I made one, hooked it up the generator and well, served its purpose. Most definitely going to look into getting a switch installed in our fuse box to switch from mains to generator so I never have to make one again. It be scary is an understatement. Note, im in the UK so our fuse boxes also known as consumer units are different to other ones.
Doing it without a transfer switch SHOULD make the hair on your neck stand up, it should remind you to go slow and not skip steps. Who knows what the laws/codes are in UK, but goodonya for living through it!
Stuff like this, is why people need to learn about stuff like this, and also proper ports for generators in households.
The only thing I have ever 'backfed' was directly into my gas furnace. I completely removed the breaker for that circuit from the panel before doing so to isolate that circuit from the rest of the system, so it was being fed safely. (my furnace has a female 120v outlet on the outside underneath a switch that controls power to the furnace, for reference).
Actually I took the switch for the furnace out, replaced with an outlet, then put a pigtail on the furnace.
When the power goes out I can plug the furnace directly to the generator.
My son and I installed solar panels (17 panels @ $5700 all in. Commercial quotes ranged from $30k to $45k) and he made me a cable designed to correctly connect a generator to a house. The city installed a net meter and a shutoff.
For power outages, we turn everything off, flip the switch, connect the generator and turn it on. Then we turn things on, starting at the most crucial. Once I see the generator near capacity, we're done turning things back on. Since we rent camping trailers, including a generator, I always have at least one extra, so I could daisy-chain a couple generators and keep switching things back on...
You probably know this but it is another problem that wasn’t mentioned in the video. Unless you have the circuitry for it daisy chaining generators can be pretty hard on them and waste power because they can be out of phase with each other. If they are 180 degrees out of phase (with single phase) the outputs from the generator will effectively be a dead short and you will melt stuff and or just trip breakers, if they are just a bit out of phase you waste power but modern generators also have a lot of electrical components which also get heated up and can fail.
If your generator tries to feed into the mains but is out of phase lots of interesting AC electrical magic happens and stuff can fail really spectacularly.
@@glenecollins
Actually Glen, I didn't know that so thank you. Some research will be coming my way fairly soon.
@Shep VanDelay
They already have. Our $375 summer electric bills are closer to $35 and our off-peak months dropped from $125 to generating credits. We're lucky to have a city that owns their electric company and they give us a 1:1 credit for anything we put back into the grid. We've had the panels for just over 5 years.
@Shep VanDelay
Two of my sons own Teslas. I have 5 sons. One of them drives big trucks and probably only gets 12 to 15 mpg.
But, they all make close to 6 figures. One of the Tesla owners makes whatever he wants because he's one of the best programmers in the world. I think he makes North of $200/hour as a consultant. That's all he does now. Just turned 32 yesterday. Single and free to do whatever he wants.
Here in Germany it is allowed to backfeed in the main if you have arranged it with the power provider. You also get money for the power you feed in. It's very common for those with solar panels on the roof to set something like that up because you can do something useful with the overproduced power you may have
You can do the same in the US. You need equipment to make sure you are not sending power out when the power grid is down, though. I imagine Germany has a similar requirement.
That is completely different from backfeeding during a power out. Many PV systems disconnect themselves during a power out just to prevent backfeeding - which of course is bad for the user as he could provide power for himself with it otherwise. Smarter ones can isolate themselves so they stop backfeeding.
During a power out there are linemen working on the lines and backfeeding kills them.
Every holiday season, there are people who go looking for something like this because they accidentally wired up their Christmas lights in the wrong direction, and the hardware stores and home improvement stores have to tell them they don't sell them because it's illegal and unsafe. I'm shocked to see them being sold.
Good info! I hadn't seen the block before. I turn off the main coming in with a light connected to the incoming power to know when the power is back on. Then plug in the generator. Would not spend the 1500 on an auto divert. That's just crazy but will get the switch block!
The ONLY time I've ever seen a 'safe' usage of one of these was an off-grid cabin where the owner used a 15-amp receptacle to feed his cabin (small fridge, few lights). Therefore no grid to backfeed and the outside outlet WAS his input. The cabin was pretty remote so he wanted to be able to take his generator or solar generator with him while he was away.
That said, even he later swapped it out for a covered male socket so he could use a regular extension cord.
That’s still not safe, as you have an exposed energized male plug if you unplug the generator feed. They make normal 15A male inlet plugs, and they’re really cheap.
@@jeffscott1543 Oh I agree. It's nothing I would do. That's why I said 'safe' in quotes, lol. Me personally, I want to do an interlock and external inlet. Ya know. Whenever I get a generator.
Wife wants the kitchen redone first. So.
@@jeffscott1543 Maybe if they have solar power running to the cabin
@@EVLS10
While the outlet would be dead with the generator disconnected, the male prongs of the extension cord plugging into it might not be.
Regardless of the power source, you always want the power to feed from a female plug to ensure you can’t have energized exposed prongs. If you have a male-to-male power cord, you have this potential whether your power source is the grid, a generator, or anything else. Feeding power from a female plug is standard practice whether you’re dealing with a 480V feed or a 3.7V drone battery.
@@jeffscott1543 just unplug the generator side first and that'll be the case, a female feeding power to a male. ✅
As a lineman we always hang grounds so the electricity has a constant path to ground, if it is somehow reenergized but there are some situations where it doesn't always happen and a lineman gets killed from a generator backfeeding the line. I have seen an underground primary line backfed while we were working on it and there was an extremely violent arc flash, thankfully we still had our gloves on but it could have easily got someone killed.
A backfeed from a home generator cannot cause an arc flash. The power level required to cause one is insane compared to the output of a generator. As a lineman you should know that.
@@knurlgnar24 you don't have to have any load to cause an arc flash. 14.4kv to ground with no current is still pretty violent, just not really explosive
@@knurlgnar24 and as a lineman I’m gonna go ahead and disagree with you. Yes it mite be a little baby pop but you step 120/30a up to 7600 it’ll do something.
@@dominick253 it’s not a chance. We treat all down lines as energized all the time. We don’t just go up to electric carrying cables and somehow forget they can carry electricity.
@@MrT13 thanks for doin what you do, crazy ass
I need one of these.
The previous tenants put up string lights on the back patio. However, the female end is by the outlet. This would be great!
I used to work for Lowes. A customer asked me if we carried these cables and I said we don't because they are illegal. Two weeks later he was in the store. He told me he made his own cable and used it to connect his generator to his house. When the mains power came back on, it shorted out his main panel and set his house on fire. His insurance refused to cover the damage because he used an illegal item to power his house.
Either you are lying (most likely) or the guy didn't just backfeed through his dryer outlet.
The dryer circuit has still got a breaker on it. So if you are telling the truth, the guy did it wrong and deserved to burn up.
@@jessiepinkman9856 I'm not lying, this really happened. He back fed through an outside outlet.
Sorry man the only way that could happen is if the guy left the main breaker on, with it off there is no way outside power would make it to the other circuit breakers in the panel.
These honestly wouldn't work very well for Christmas lights anyway since most sets are non polarized.
I have told this story on somebody else's Chan Some time back. A friend of mine had bought a 5000 Watt generator and he was back feeding into one of his wall outlets. He couldn't understand why his generator kept tripping out even after he had turned everything off inside the house. I had to explain to him and told him pretty much everything you covered in this video. Well done on that 😀
@@rickyhall1772 I told him that he was probably supplying power to everybody in the neighborhood down to the breaker that tripped that caused the outage.and advised him to install a changeover switch at his DB, which I ended up having to do for him. He thought he knew, but he clearly didn't know enough.
And to try and feed 5000 watts through a 15 amp outlet. He should just sit in the dark before he burns his house down
@Thomas Cotton you can only run 15 amps which is maybe 1500 watts through a 15 amp circuit or the wires will heat up. 5000 watts is a guaranteed fire that's 4x the wiring capacity.
@Thomas Cotton agree, just keep the draw to 1500 watts or less
@@robertbell525 5000 watts through even a 20 amp circuit would be a problem. IIRC you are looking at an NEC requirement of 6 AWG for that kind of draw. He is lucky he didn't have one hell of a fire running that kind of load through 14 or 12 AWG wiring. Even my 110 volt, 10 AWG air conditioner circuit (I have a large air conditioner that trips 15 amp breakers on start up so I ran a 30 amp circuit to it with a heavy duty 20 amp outlet, the A/C draws about 22-23 amps for a split second before settling down to 12-13 amps) would probably melt down at 5000 watts (best case scenario about 42 amps)!
It's only dangerous if you don't isolate your main feed first and if you overload the circuit you're feeding it through, so for instance a smaller generator will put out under 2000w, most socket circuits in the UK are made to handle that and it's unlikely the generator will be a danger to the circuit wiring, other than that you just need to attach the connection site while both the supply is disconnected and the generator is off.
I do not advise the practice, simply I'd rather people know how to do it as safely as possible if they're gonna do it anyway
Yep, just make sure it is isolated from the mains and the wire of the outlet won't burn by the high current.
I got a generator last summer. Emergency supply to the house wasn't even thought of when I got it. I'm gonna have more fun than most if I need to run the house off the generator - as the house is only single phase ;)
And the generator, 2kW per phase.
So the design is to make the house 2 phase (house L1, cooker & some sockets L2) and have the third phase as a socket in the kitchen. I also need to disconnect main neutral - as it'll be connected to earth - and that'd trip my RCD !
Also a good point to consider - that double male end can bite if one end is connected to the generator and the other is not. Not great with kids or elderly or ignorant folks around.
The Nancy boy who made this video is clueless or just scared. Open the mains and back feed through 30 amp plug. Dryer, ect. Open your mains. Not difficult, not dangerous, just know what you are doing. This is taking safety to the point of stupidity. Generator interlock just idiot proofs the process. Ask yourself, are you an idiot
@@chucknorris277 Things like this should be inherently safe, as a technician on the line transformer you don’t want to trust some guy to turn off the breaker.
There is always human factor, safety measures get neglected all the time.
Not an electrician but your explanation made it so easy to understand
I made one of those about 25 feet long once, to power a remote circuit from house current. Worked damn well.
This is a really great safety tip. I never once considered that installing a generator incorrectly could energize external lines. 👍🏻👍🏻
It can't energize the lines if your main breaker is off. That is a physical disconnect between your house and the grid.
@@willboudreau1187 the issue is that most folks who do this don't understand how their service panels operate and assume "my lights work now, i just be fine", or better yet, "i dont want to turn that off or stuff won't work when the power comes back on" and then they end up killing linemen.
@@willboudreau1187 But what happens if somebody forgets to turn their main breaker off?
@@nonelost1 If someone doesn't turn the main breaker off and feeds generator into the panel, the generator will be immediately overloaded from essentially being hooked up to the entire neighborhood and will trip its circuit breakers .
Don't take up chess.
Never knew people did this. I was fortunate. When I was a child, my dad was the safety NCO in his flight, so he was a stickler for things done right.
I grew up in a military, common sense-driven household even after dad retired. Our generator had its own little house in the backyard and a transfer switch box near the power meter main breaker box.
Every time the power went out, I was on generator duty. Such a sense of urgency I had running down the stairs unsafely to go flip switches and levers and crank that annoyingly loud Coleman generator.🤓
Hi, Electrician from Germany here. A lot of Things you said are correct, but I would say the main concern for Powerplantz about backfeeding are the not synchronized voltage spikes of AC, which effectively is increasing Voltage in any outlet and furthermore in your Generator, which can cause serious Damage.
I may or may not have used one of those cables in the past. At least to my credit, I made sure that the plug was plugged in on both ends before firing up the generator, and I also made sure that only one of the two breakers (main line, and generator) was on at a time. Now I know for the future and will likely get my house more backup generator ready for next winter (a necessity to run heat during winter power outages to keep pipes from freezing in the northeast).
I will not have a lead like that any were near my house ,i will more than litly grab the wrong end
I've never fully understood the dangers here. I get with the main breaker not turned off you could backfeed to the street but then you would be trying to run everyone's house off your generator which would immediately pop the breaker on the generator if not the breakers in the house. I've actually been doing this for years but always make sure my main breaker is off.
Theoretically it could happen though- there may be someone that has seen an instance where something happened in a real death situation.
As unlikely as it is, people even win lottery sometimes- it's just odds and statistics.
@@joeyoungs8426 pretty much same here I have a few that I won't turn on like electric range etc but so far works great. Pretty much run my whole house minus a few things even an AC if I have to. Only problem I have is I don't get to know when the power is on since my main is off.
@@joeyoungs8426 oh now I didn't think of checking the meter. I have a little fluke pen that beeps that I set near the main line.
They make automatic contact switches that will switch the circuit in event of power cut, Used Mainly in solarPV installs or Battery storage systems.
Back in 2005 when Katrina was in the Gulf, my dad made a "manifold" for lack of better term. It has that 30 amp 4 prong plug that goes in the generator, the other end of this heavy duty cable has 2 double gang metal conduit boxes bolted together and there's total of 4 outlets (can handle 8 plugs at once if you watch the usage). We just took the end with all the outlets and put it through a open window in the house. I would love to put a transfer switch put in
Perfect explanation thanks
I have never owned a generator as I am a lineman, and if the power is out, I'm in the field working until everything is back on. Another solution instead of using one of these cables is to isolate the circuits you need and hard wire then into the generator. It's more work but also pretty easy to do.
In the electrical trade, I’ve always referred to these as “suicide cables,” but I’ve heard “death cables,” “killer cords,” and I heard one old timer once say, “a properly pissed off pixie plug.” That last one has always stuck with me.
It’s not uncommon to get an apprentice that doesn’t know any better to accidentally make one of these, usually in temporary power situations. I’ve always stressed how dangerous it is, especially on the US’s 240v/277v systems.
AVE
You only solo suicide cable to your furnace here in MN. Wired in through the furnace switch. Furnace breaker off. Suicide cable wire nutted in.
No its the U.S.'s use of 120 volts that the European electrical grid doesn't use is the most deadly hence why most countries don't use it because 240v will most likely knock you off the circuit where 120 is small enough to just make a person grab on to let's say a naked wire n your muscles will contract n its hard to let go while its still strong enough to fry your ass. Best to get knocked off!
Alternatively, use an NC contactor to open the supply circuit when the generator outlet is energised. It would guarantee that every time you had a generator running, it would keep the mains disconnected. Maybe make it a latching contactor so it has to be manually closed again when power is restored.
Brilliant
thank you 🙂
I built one of these in the U.K. to link two things together. I’m an electrician. I though because I’m an electrician I could get away with being lazy because I was in control.
Shocked myself while unplugging it in front of my neighbor. Threw the thing away, changed one of the outlets to the correct type and made a new cable.
Even “qualified” people like me aren’t safe from these monstrosities.
You must be a rookie electrician
Back feeding is like anything else. It should only be done by people who know what they’re doing and are willing to do it correctly. This video puts it in a really bad light. If the main breaker is off, back feeding is not going back to the street. Linemen will not be at risk either way as they always treat all lines as if they were live. Also, whenever backfeeding, make sure you only have essential breakers on, such as lights or whatever such that it doesn’t exceed the generators or back feeding circuits amp rating.
Accidents happen, why not just do it the right way?
@@CT-vm4gf Honestly, if it was a choice between having to run a generator indoors or backfeeding safely, I'm going to backfeed.
@@CT-vm4gf Cause generator transfer switches are pretty expensive. No one is going to choose a $200+ panel over a $5 cable if they use said cable correctly.
I agree...if a person does not know to shut off main breaker..should not be running a generator or driving a car etc.
Yeah I agree forgetting to turn the breakers off could happen. I recently fed 230v into 100v device by accident even though I'm super careful with it and use US plugs (rather than normal EU plugs) exclusively for 100-120v not to ever mistake them and I even got a color cord I plug into my main 120v transformer not to ever mistake it and yet even I messed it up once.
Reminds me of an incident a while back where I had a switch box installed professionally for maximum safety however I installed a domestic wall socket to receive the power from the generator, in doing this I needed to make a cable with 2 male connectors (1 for Genny 2nd for wall socket). What I stupidly did 1 day by accident is plug the cable into a domestic socket close to the Genny input/feed socket walked off towards the Genny to plug in and found the male prongs of course we're live. Needless to say I have removed the nearby socket so I cannot make this mistake again and highlighted the input socket but now I'm going to do as you suggest and change from a female wall socket to a male socket.
We cobbled one of these together to temporarily connect the power strips in two equipment racks together for testing before installation -- giving it the nickname "Jones Death Plug". (The racks were normally hard wired into AC when they were installed). Although we zip tied the cables into the receptacles and hung warning tags on them it still gave me the willies that some unaware tech would wind up grabbing an unplugged hot end and get injured. We yanked it out and beheaded it as soon as we were done. Scary that these things can actually be purchased.
That's nuts you could've legitimately killed someone
@@AegisHyperon - Well, you got the point of the post that such cables are dangerous and shouldn't be sold, right? In our case, if an unauthorized person had entered our restricted lab unattended, powered up the equipment we were testing, removed the red safety tags, cut the zip ties, removed the right end of the plug, grabbed onto the hot contact while grounding themselves somewhere, it could have killed them. In any case, we weren't going to leave that thing lying around once we were done with it so we destroyed it. Doubtful that most people who use them to hook up emergency generators take such precautions. By the way, cables with the receptacle cut-off are much more common and can be just as dangerous to leave lying around.
@@TomTRobot one person doesn't have to do all those things, all it takes is a series of coincidences. This isn't the same as backfeeding a generator please don't do it again...
@@AegisHyperon - Do you know the expression "Whipping a dead horse"? --- But you're right. It sure isn't the same. Average homeowners with their families using those things to tie generators into their home outlets is much more dangerous.
@@TomTRobot not even close
Thanks for this video! I'm a master electrician and seeing a product like this being sold makes me so mad. Imagine if someone's kid gets a hold of this and plugs it into an outlet and grabs the other end. Someone is going to die with a product like this on the market. Its one thing for someone who (hopefully) knows what they're doing to make a setup like this to get themselves out of a pickle, but this should not be something that is mass marketed. I checked out the ad on amazon and its sold from multiple sellers as for being connected to a transfer switch and as having safety features. A bunch of lies. I know some people that sit on electrical code council and forwarded this to them. Hopefully they can get this in front of someone who can get it pulled from the US market before someone dies...
What really surprised me with this video is how many people seem to see backfeeding as some right for liberty or other BS. As you clearly understand electricity, it's not an insurance policy but a regulation that truly does something, and in this case makes sure that no mistake can happen when connecting a generator. I did it not because it was was in the NEC but because I work and we would lose power and there was no way I could be sure my wife with kids running around that she could do it without making an error. So it works great, can plugs it all in, can't get shocked and won't backfeed. Seems like a no brainer for about $100 more of materials for a connection that might be there for the life of your home
What most people don't understand, the NEC is written in blood. Those rules are there because, at some point, people died because they did something wrong.
@@SilverCymbal I like how you showed the 30A OUTSIDE the residence. I had a friend call me to ask for a checkout of his DIY gen install, and I saw the receptacle inside the house. I told him it should be outside unless he has a factory molded properly rated cable to go through a door or window. He said because he was running propane he could run it in the home, said I didn't know what I was talking about (20+ years as an EE with a PE who builds UL508A panels for a living, NEC on my desk with paperclips all over it to mark relevant tables, so what do I know). I told him I hope he never uses it, good luck, do not ask me to look at anything ever again. Never got to see if it was connected correctly. It wasn't. He had one line and the neutral reversed. Resulted in lots of smoke and usage of fire extinguishers. He still won't talk to me. I consider that an added bonus.
I tell people not to use it, just pay the extra money for a proper panel lockout mechanism. Fire insurance won't pay if they use that death cord. They almost always ignore me. Funny thing is they know what I do for a living, and ASK me, then get mad when I tell them how dangerous those things are.
If it was going to happen, it would have already happened.
I've never seen one of those double male cords here in Canada. I do have an outside generator backfed into my panel though. It uses one of those twist lock plugs, male one end , female on the other. That goes from the generator to a special receptacle on the outside of the house. That connects to a backfeed breaker with an interlock, so you can't be connected to mains and run the generator at the same time. Legally if you have a generator that is considered "non independently derived" (permanently installed outside, probably on pad, trenched wiring, non-portable) you need to have both ground and neutral completely disconnected when in the off position, which requires one of those auto-switching panels. But, if like mine, the generator is totally portable and you use a 4 prong twist lock to connect to the house it's considered an "independently derived system" and you can get by with the cord and interlock with no more than a backfeed breaker in the panel. At least that was the law when I installed it several years ago.
If you isolate your own fuse board via a double pole isolator from the mains incomer (the main isolation switch) your install is completely separate. Turn off all the breakers then back feed the install via a socket outlet from the generator. You can power your lights / heating / WiFi within the power constraints of the generator kw rating by turning on the relevant breaker. Here in the UK, 1kw is 4amps (240v). So you can work out what circuits you can use. It’s not ideal as the MCB / RCD etc won’t function correctly but if there’s no power from the mains it’s better than nothing.
I’ve seen this once on a commercial light fixture at work. It was homemade. I removed it and hung it up in our maintenance shop for all the mechanics to see as a warning. No one ever admitted who made it. It was a scary thing to discover for sure!
That's careless and reckless. I hope u cut cord in middle. What if a kid or incompetent moron were to try to use it.
@@Jon-6969 It was a light fixture that hooks up in series with other fixtures. It was rigged up with an incoming male plug and an outgoing male plug. Someone switched the outgoing female end with a male end.
@@Jon-6969 don't cut the cord in the middle! Just take it so you later you can cut it at one end and put on the proper plug. Unless it's thinner than 12 gauge, then probably not worth your time.
If your not smart enough to turn your main breaker off, be best if you avoid any electrical maintainance.
@@raymondkreyer2664 noooo we can’t all be geniuses enough to remember the one and only step to this. The directs would go as follows. Step 1: open main. Step two: power house. And ppl would read step one and just get stuck…………… staring at it. Like ugh I just can’t it’s too much!!!!
Remember when you back feed a utility line that the transformers at the poles are bidirectional
and will take your 240V or whatever and energize the line to power co voltage ~12,000v depending
on the line voltage.This would kill a line worker.
Turn off your main breaker and it can't do that
Remember when you drive off a cliff that you will hit something at the bottom at a high speed and probably die. So turn your breaker off and lock it.
In my area it actually has killed someone. Had a thunderstorm run through the area and a tree knocked down the line. Someone had backfed their house with a generator without a cutoff, and it sent line voltage down the area as soon as it hit the transformer. The problem was is that one of his neighbors was working on clearing one of the trees that fell in his yard, and was killed by the live line.
arguably he was an idiot for getting anywhere close to it.
Yea one that just shows up to downed wires and assumes they are dead…. Which is never…. Soooooo……. Would kill a line worker? Maybe a real stupid one on his first day…
@@Sovek86 exactly. Every year storms come and go. I go out 16 hour days for weeks at a time and still after 10 years I’ve never heard of a lineman dying by this. Everyone says it will kill a lineman super dead instantly rah rah blah blah. As if we don’t think that these lines carry electricity or something. Like we show up to an outage and say ok everyone it’s still “illegal” for ppl to hook up generators so that means there isn’t any hooked up everyone agrees? And we all say yes.
I'd like to have a generator interlock but all I really need is a good way of running a big extension cord from outdoors to indoors.
I'm picturing something you could buy to install on the outside of the house that would look something like a weatherproof outlet cover. It would give you a 2" or so hole to pass through the cord into the inside. There should be a weeathertight hinged cover on the outside that can be closed over the cord without pinching it. When not in use, an airtight cover could be placed on the inside.
The reason it's illegal is because your general Joe McPublic can't be trusted to do it safely. If it's done right, it is perfectly fine and safe. I'm glad you pointed out the block for the dedicated generator feed circuit because that is a good idea. Do you have a link to where those can be found?
A male receptacle is a power inlet. A female receptacle is a power outlet. The generator outlet is physically on the generator. The male receptacle on the house or RV is the power inlet and you connect a proper cable from the generator outlet (located on the generator) to the power inlet on the house or RV. It seems you got some of the terminology confused in the video. Most people do not deal with power inlet receptacles so they some tend to call all receptacles "outlets" which, when dealing with inlets, is wrong and can be confusing to those learning how to do this correctly, especially when communicating their ideas with someone using the correct terminology. Otherwise, thanks for the video!
If you have a small generator and are only running a couple of loads, you can do the "spaghetti" thing where you run extension cords to various places in the house and just bypass the house wiring entirely. But that isn't always safe either - if you don't understand wire gauge issues and the limits on how long certain cable runs can be, you can get yourself in real trouble doing that. At best, you might fry something from low voltage, at worst the cord will suddenly catch on fire. Don't start plugging extension cord into extension cord into extension cord, that is incredibly dangerous if you don't know the gauge of the wire in each cord and the total length of the run. Most extension cords are simply not made with thick enough wire to allow that.
I plugged a box fan in once after doing what I thought was probably too long of a run with multiple extension cords, thinking, yeah, it is such a small load, it won't be a problem. WRONG. It seemed absolutely fine at first, but it started to sound a little funny so I went over to look at it. The thin cord of the box fan suddenly got very hot. Like too hot to touch hot. I unplugged it probably seconds before it would have caught fire. And even the thicker extension cord earlier in the run was very warm. You get a significant voltage drop at the end of a run that is too long, and then very bad things happen, even if the load is relatively small.
At my last job building sheds, these were a great way to test the wiring in a shed without having to tie everything in the breakerbox
It’s also a great way to test how much life is left.
Earned my sub and like with the incredible knowledge
I've used the "double male" plug method to back-feed my house many, many times... of course, only after opening the main service disconnect first. Perfectly safe, IF you know what you are doing (35+ yrs. as an electrician helps). In a pinch, this method will keep your house (or at least part of it) supplied with energy during an outage. Be aware, however, that you will only be feeding 120 volts to HALF of your house. Which half is dependent upon which buss-bar the particular outlet (and circuit breaker) you are back-feeding is connected to in your utility panel. Also, it is very important to open any 240-volt breakers to prevent possible cross-feed/back-feed through the neutral. Open (turn off) all 240v loads such as water heaters, electric dryers, electric ranges, etc.
BTW, that generator connection is not called an "outlet", it's an actually an "inlet". Outlets (aka, receptacles) are the female-gendered connection. Because these are male connections, they are not, by definition, "outlets".
Of course, the safest method is as described, with an approved interlock device, or a properly installed transfer swich.
Alan, the problem is, most people are not 35 year+ electricians, let alone a 35 second electrician, and when they see people say "Well it's perfectly safe if you do this and that and the other" they think they can just copy it and it'll work.
Then they wind up dead.
@@johnroscoe2406 "because most people are idiots" don't tell the truth. Backfeeding can be deadly. Backfeeding is safe if you take the proper precautions.
Both are true.
Wouldn't backfeeding through the 30amp 240 outlet on the generator to a 30 amp 240 receptacle inside the house eliminate that? Not an electrician, so I'm not saying I know the answer and have no plans to backfeed.
@@Vinny.X
Yes. If you were able to feed 240/120v (two "hots" and a neutral) through a proper 240/120v, 4-wire plug & receptacle, back into your panel, then both busbars in your panel would be energized, and essentially, every circuit in the house would work. However, having only ~30 amps of available current would mean you would have to disconnect large-load items (like electric water heaters, clothes dryers, AC compressors, etc.) to prevent overloading your generator.
And, you MUST open (i.e. TURN OFF) the main circuit breaker feeding the panel, to prevent a backfeed into the utility.
But it can be done.
This is exactly how a home standby generator system works, except they are generally hard-wired in, and have protective interlocks, to prevent improper backfeed.
@@Calico5string1962 Funny we're talking about this as I'm in the dark from a large Southeast storm. For background, I do a lot of DIY mildly complex electrical: can run new wire to a new circuit on the panel, wire up 3 ways, wire up mildly complex boxes with say power in, a switch loop, a fixture, and then power out to the next box. For a non electrician I'm probably very good and thorough with basics (though might use incorrect wording at times), but fully understand I am not an electrician and defer to those like yourself.
So my thinking was if ever some extended zombie takeover I could run a 6000/7500 watt generator thru 10/3 cable back fed into my dryer outlet. That size generator should not overload that circuit. I do understand the 3 main dangers: not shutting off the main breaker, plugging the cord into the generator first leaving the prongs on the other end hot, and forgetting to turn off the generator and disconnect before opening up the main breaker to street power.
I don't ever plan on doing this, but as I said I would be tempted to change my mind in some horrific terrorist type extended event. I realize I can't run much in the way of large 240 appliances, but for most outages just give me some lights, the fridge, and maybe some other small stuff. I have to recheck the wattage on the smaller of my ac zones. It's a high efficiency 1.5 or 2 ton unit. I think, but not sure, I could run it with most everything else off but have to recheck the numbers.
I got a generlink installed. It’s the next best thing next to a standby generator, no transfer switches or back feeding.
I prefer a powerwall
it *IS* a transfer switch.
I made one during a snowstorm power cut. Socket got bit warm lol. I did isolate main breaker though.
Thanks for this. So, (assuming theres an interlock kit installed on the main breaker panel) risk of being shocked due to touching the ends is the only reason not to do this? Im asking because my inlet box is female and so is my generator, so without male to male chord I cant hook up the gene to the house..
I have heard this line of crap many times, but if you ever do back feed the system with a small generator it instantly kills the generator because it can't supply the wattage requirements of the the entire electrical grid. You also do not need a double ended cable to do it. It depends on your generator and how you hook it to your system. The double ended cable is to supply both legs of your system if you do not have a 240 volt generator. You always have to disconnect the main breaker to make it work unless you have a transfer switch and a permanent installation.
During a week long power outage in my home town, an old man ran his and his neighbors house with his generator. The power company ended up needing to deduct the power sent to other house from his bill.
Would it work if you flip the main breaker to cutoff the street or would it still be able to go back to grid
Why am i just learning this at 40 yrs old?
This needs to be taught in school.
I was 30 when i found out you dont run a car inside a garage.
Glad i found the information before i was killed.
Im not a mechanic or an electrician. 🤗
If you have to suicide cord backfeed, shutoff the main breaker and make sure you backfeed into your 30A(or even 50A) dryer outlet. If you backfeed into a normal outlet, you're wasting energy from your generator and risking fire from overloading the much smaller wire on that 15A circuit.
If the wire was sized correctly, it shouldn't be a fire risk - the breaker should trip if you attempt to draw too much current.
@@Dee_Just_Dee When suggesting how to go about doing something dangerous, never understate the dangers. :p
In my area of the country few new homes have 30 or 50 amp, 220VAC circuits anymore. Even the hot water heater, stove and dryer runs off of natural gas (or propane) in a newly constructed Michigan home. My house was constructed in 1990 and didn't come with any 220VAC circuits at all, my brother's was constructed in 1997 and he had to run hot water heater, stove and dryer circuits himself when he started using wood heat and didn't want to deal with propane (he lives 20 miles from the nearest town).
I live alone and I'm not as stupid as most people. I can do this safely because I will remember to flip the switch and be careful not to touch the plug while the generator is running.
How do I KNOW I'll remember to shut the breaker? Because I think about this every day I look at the generator in my garage. I would think "If power gets restored while this thing is running, won't that destroy all my electronics with double the power?"
I don't know if it will, but I will always remember to flip the main breaker switch if the day comes.
I never had to use a generator, but I will be doing it the illegal way should the day come.
I run it this way All the time. Flip the main off, flip the dryer breaker off, plug the gen into the dryer, start the gen, flip the dryer breaker back on. Completely safe and has worked for 20years through countless hurricanes and storms.
Also a good tip is to run the cable through the dryer vent so you dont have to drag the cable through a door or window.
Absolutely. I’ve always done it this way too. But I am an electrician and know better, but too bad. I am not paying for fancy switch gear when I am the only one back feeding my panel. Use your head and be careful. Know what you are doing. Safety is great for the general public, but sometimes the ice storm gets you. I get to work and safely restart my house power on generator.
gotta LOCK it, so some other dipwad doesn't come flip it on, and you're good to go by code:
705.NEC702.6 contains an exception to the transfer equipment requirement:
“Exception: Temporary connection of a portable generator without transfer equipment shall be permitted where conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation and where the normal supply is physically isolated by a lockable disconnecting means or by disconnection of the normal supply conductors.”
Amazing video
good to know, thank you
Another disadvantage of just using a male-to-male cable and backfeeding into a regular outlet is that all the power you're feeding in goes through cables and fuses that aren't meant for very high power, usually around 2.3kW. By getting a dedicated connection to feed into you can use bigger wires and fuses
It's fused via the breaker on whatever circuit you plugged it in to.
@@andrewk8636 yup, and that's usually a rather weak fuse. Enough to get the lights going and tune in to an emergency broadcast, but not too much more. At least not all at once
@@HATECELL i was about to say: "well you got your fridge on one circuit and maybe another major appliance on another and you're golden." And just as I was writing that I realized the breaker ain't gonna do nothing because the outlets power doesn't feed through it lol. So you're limited to whatever breaker the generator has which hopefully is rated lower than the wiring. Definitely need to add a breaker or fuse if you're using a male to male. In a pinch I'd rig it up if power cut out for a while but not worth it for a short outage. When I get my own house I'll be off grid anyway so I won't need to worry about that no more
I've used a male-to-male plug many times to go from a 240V 30A generator outlet to a house clothes dryer receptacle. I recommend doing it the legal way and using proper dedicated receptacle and an interlock or transfer switch, but if you are just totally resistant to that idea then make a checklist and tape it over the generator outlet. It should have these steps:
1) Turn off main power breaker in house electrical box
2) Make sure generator breaker is off
3) Plug in both cord ends
4) Start generator
5) Turn on generator breaker
I'm not promoting people do it this way over the legal way, but I do think if someone makes it a rule to follow a sequence TO THE LETTER every time they do it, they can avoid getting killed or backfeeding. Just reverse everything for shutdown.
Also don't do this at all with a regular 120V house outlet. It's not made for that much power draw. The wire is too light and the breaker is too small. If your breaker fails and doesn't pop when it should, you'll have a house fire.
If you have a 15 amp 120v outlet the most you can put through it is 1,800 watts not even worth doing really
@@AGuyFromHazard Dryers are 220v 30 amp usually.
3:54 One time during a thunderstorm I was unplugging my unprotected stuff in a fit of anxiety (I hate thunder, and the thought of damaged electronics), and accidentally touched a prong and shocked myself. I don't think it had any lasting effects, but it definitely did not help my anxiety.
I built one with an outlet in the middle to increase current flow to my power saw. Two 18 gauge extension cords feeding into one outlet, and then to the radial arm saw. The saw couldn’t spin up with one extension cord, but two into one did the job.