Thanks for your videos. I've taken your recommendations seriously. Am remodeling a 1979 house. Just put in an RSS PRO Series shower pan today. RSS foam board tomorrow. I'm 75 and this is my new hobby.
When you mentioned how most people chip off the tiles first, then bang the float and drywall off, it’s like you were watching me do that a year ago! My house was built in 61 and that shower didn’t come out easy. Carried it out in buckets full of crumbs rather than nice big chunks. Wish I had done it this way. Amazing thing is that there was absolutely no water damage at all. Even the curb was in great shape. Since it was my first shower, I opted for a premade acrylic pan instead of tiled floor. Watching your videos I know there’s plenty that could go wrong and I knew I’d sleep better this way. Love your videos and attitude. Thanks for educating us.
I’ve been watching and studying your videos for months. Finally got the courage to do one of our bathrooms using liquid Hydroban and FloFx like you’ve used in a few of your videos. Thank you for your great videos. I learn something in each one.
Always watching something of yours. This looks like my shower except I had a cinder block bench at the back. Thank goodness for small jackhammers! Water damage superficial (studs good) luckily. House built in the 80s. Now putting it back together. First shower renovation ever for me. Have watched hours of video, picked up the consistencies & pointers, talked w a local plumber friend. Wish me luck!
Started out c hammer & chisel. Too much work. Quickly converted to Dremel to get between tile, oscillator to get drywall. Then pry bar to get chunks off the studs. Much easier!
Great advice on having people around you when you work. Having a helper helps in so many ways, carrying the craft forward is one but also having someone to bullshit with during the day is super important mentally.
3pc systems work just fine. Just as long as the company install it knows what there doing & installs it correctly. Enjoy your videos & good to see you with pads back on! Take care my friend! KOKO!
Discovered your channel a few days ago and it's been a great help. I'm learning a lot. I'm currently doing a renovation on our 2nd bathroom of our house. The demolition itself was a lot of work. I have a tiny window to dump out the debris into a trash bin sitting outside the house. After the bin was full, it was so heavy, I had to call a friend and his sons over to help me roll it out to the curb. Even with the 4 of us, it took some effort. Thank you for your channel and the resource I have to turn to for any tips! God bless!
If you're going to be doing tile work, this channel is great. Also check out Sal DiBlasi here on RUclips for even more examples. Between the two of them, it's pretty likely they've showed an install that is similar to yours.
Great video. As a DIYer, Ive done 2 bathrooms now watching your videos and still learning from you! I am now going to tackle the master ! Ive been asking about the Tile redi alternative I have been using, so good to see you used it here in your small clips.
Just finished removing the exact same shower in my house the exact same way, but without the jack hammer which is overkill as a mini mall (5 lb sledge with a shorty handle) worked to create the break-off points as sectioned pieces. It was a bit of work, but the new tile is installed and grouted, now just need to do the finishing work and it'll be good to go.
Awareness is something that I preach especially to my laborers. I like that you can see the bit biting into the drywall on the other side, but "someone" was looking out and more importantly called out that you could do something better.
Amazing video and I agree with you on people’s reluctance to newer projects. My only two cents is don’t assume new products won’t have their own issues in 10-30 years. I think newer systems make sense but time will always win every argument. Ether way amazing content!
Outstanding video, Isaac. This is Exhibit A of the shortcomings of the traditional hotmop method still used all over California. Every home remodeling contractor should be forced to watch this. Even a simple coat of Redguard on top of that mortar bed would've been a massive improvement over the un-waterproofed mud bed with waterproofing underneath. I can't help but wonder if the thinking behind this type of shower is that it'll last for ten or so years, by which time the homeowner will be remodeling the bathroom anyway. Thanks to videos like yours, a competent DIY'er using newer methods can get a got a longer-lasting shower than a "professional" who only knows one way to do things... the old way.
The hot mop has not failed, its the failure of the installer to keep the weep system open. And this has been going on for 30+ years. Now, I hear inspector are checking the weep system on new home builds. Moving forward, the hot mop system will be the reigning champ of shower waterproofing. By the way, I hear there is a company in Northern California that has innovated a way to clear the weep system without removing tile. Pretty high tech stuff
I don't have a jack hammer, do have mini circular saw & angle grinder with diamond blades. If I set depth to 3/4" & I'm careful I should be able to cut out small sections as you suggested... Thanks Issac....
Been a fan for years and years Isaac but a panliner weeping system that is done completely perfect with epoxy grout will not fail. I’ve torn out 30 year old showers that did not fail and nothing was wet… it’s about not skipping any steps!!! Just my two cents!
So I’m having a curbless shower with a frameless fixed panel, same as the one you installed a while back. Question, does it sit directly on tile or would you add a saddle?
My demo did not have chicken wire. It had metal lathe nailed to the studs. And no drywall at all. In the section you pulled off there would have been 15 to 20 2 1/2 inch roofing style nails. It just didn’t budge. Had to chip away. Any suggestions appreciated.
I love your videos just one quick question on the sealed systems grout Is never water proof so where will the water go that Works it's way down To your waterproofing ?
@@TileCoach I guess we will see in 20 years if there is a problem with mold at the base of the shower thanks for replying . Keep up the great work . After 40 plus years setting tile you are one of the few guys I generally agree with .👍💪
@@rexgross5073 Sealed system installs have been around over 20 years now; we're coming up on 30. Even with a pan-liner or hot-mop, some of the water that migrates into the grout and mortar bed will not be able to fall to the drain due to adhesion (surface tension). The adhesion between the water molecules and the pores in the grout/mortar will be strong enough to overcome gravity and hold the water in tension inside the crystal structure. So both types of system need some level of ventilation on the outside so that trapped water can evaporate out as vapor. I would presume that there is generally less trapped water in a 3-piece drain system with a liner since some of it will drain via gravity, but it isn't 100% clear because a sealed system can only hold water in the grout and thinset, whereas the liner system could also hold some in the mortar bed.
I would always cap the shower or tub outlet, just in case the valve is hit during demo. Especially after the walls are demoed and the water can cause a big mess.
Yes, this is a common method of building a shower in the US that you will see on many homes. It is "more popular" here as well in that if you go into a random house, you are much more likely to see a preformed tub or tray than you are a tiled base. It is usually much cheaper, but is also considered not as nice of a finish. Isaac usually does higher-end stuff and his clients seem to prefer the look and feel of all-tile showers.
Hi I would like to prefer liner system. If you know how to do it I think it is the best system there. Yes it is old and most of the time you have him on all houses. This system is verified. It is very cheap to compare to the new systems. The biggest thing is a question how long new system will work and I like to be trust with product but not make a question it will be working? You have some videos about shluter pan was leaking. How styrofoam pan can be a shower pan, drop the hummer from 8 feet, try to jump on it. It is weak material. Yes it is much easier to install and is very lightweight. This is business to sell new stuff, new technology but it is not mean it is better than the old one.
I saw one on here, but I don’t remember which channel, that’s a foam pan reinforced with plastic from recycled bottles. It was almost as hard as concrete, but a fraction of the weight. Very cool. I don’t think pure foam pans will be around for long. They’re cool, but vulnerable like you said.
A 4 inch grider with a Dimond blade and a shop vac is way cleaner for making the relief cuts in the wall. If that was a wire lath /two coat mud wall right on the studs the battle would be alot harder!
Also that pan didn't have the most important aspect of the 3pc system. The preslope! With out the preslope & ½" aggregate around collar of the 3pc drain to protect the weep holes the entire system will fail all the time! Again will say the bonding flange/ sealed systems don't allow water to dry out especially using lighter marble mosaics even if sealed! Have installed all three systems over past 23 yrs. In my opinion the original 3pc done correctly with correct techniques & products dries out the fastest & more regular between showers!
What is up with those little pieces of 2x4 that are end to end behind the shower tile? That isn't going to support jack! Why would you do what when an 8 foot 2x4 only costs a few bucks?
Provide all the facts! Are the weep holes plugged up by the hot mop? Was there gravel at the weep holes? These would two reasons why there is standing water! It's not because is a old system that should be retired! It was not done 100% correctly. What is the pitch on slope board? It doesn't look like 1/4 per foot from the video!
Using a grinder with a tile and metal blade will quickly cut that tile into manageable pieces, even if it has the wire backing they use out here in Texas. I did two bathrooms that were about 80% tile and once I moved to using the grinder it went really fast and easy and made much less of a mess.
how can you say the new systems are better when they havent been around long enough for a true test. i know you see a lot of failures but for every failure you see there are tens of thousands of showers out there that have lasted 30 40 or even 50 yrs wit h the old system. i have personally done hundreds cant remember any of them failling/ wicking over the curb.
I Do repair service work and repolishing etc. No one ever uses weep hole protectors and in some cases dont even preslope the pan! Ive had the new vs old argument. Everything has a chance to work if properly executed. Some dont like the light weight feel of foam but it took people to the moon, so.......
Is this the first time you did this? Keep that mask on too! That dust is very bad for your lungs! Vacuum and masonry wheel way faster and cuts the chicken wire too. Also not so easy with backer board and screws!! A wall that short can be done in two pieces on the sides at least.
I hate hearing these guys call a traditional pan a “water in, water out system”. They make it sound like everytime that you use the shower water is going straight through the tile to the pan!! If water is going through the tile and grout to the liner then your shower has already failed, period! The majority of these failed showers are due to lack of maintenance with the grout and caulking. Whether it be a pan liner or foam pan they both serve the same purpose and that is to serve as a safety barrier should your grout and tile fail to keep from destroying your wood structure. Really wish a lot of these tile guys would focus more on how to keep it from failing to start with. Such as proper maintenance.
I don't understand this comment. No tile, grout, or sealer manufacturer that I know of markets their products as a water-proofing system. The only grout that I know of that is 100% waterproof is epoxy grout. Porcelain tiles have quite low water absorption, but it is certainly not zero. Same thing with sealers; they work primarily by making the surface more hydrophobic, which causes beading, but they cannot keep out standing or running water. Can you point to any testing that shows that properly installed and maintained tile and grout does not allow water into the mortar bed under normal shower conditions?
@@Anytus2007 yeah I was wondering what kind of grout sealer it was that kept water out I haven’t found any kind that keeps water from seeping into the grout when sealer is applied it keeps the grout from staining easily but I don’t think it’s a water blocker it does help the water from penetrating as fast , when most people take a shower it’s not going the seep through the grout unless the drain is stopped up and the water stays in the pan
Thanks for your videos. I've taken your recommendations seriously. Am remodeling a 1979 house. Just put in an RSS PRO Series shower pan today. RSS foam board tomorrow. I'm 75 and this is my new hobby.
Nice!! In my 50’s so by the time I’m 75 I’ll be worken for Isaac. 😀
Wow! Fantastic! How'd it turn out? You're my new inspiration!
When you mentioned how most people chip off the tiles first, then bang the float and drywall off, it’s like you were watching me do that a year ago! My house was built in 61 and that shower didn’t come out easy. Carried it out in buckets full of crumbs rather than nice big chunks. Wish I had done it this way.
Amazing thing is that there was absolutely no water damage at all. Even the curb was in great shape.
Since it was my first shower, I opted for a premade acrylic pan instead of tiled floor. Watching your videos I know there’s plenty that could go wrong and I knew I’d sleep better this way.
Love your videos and attitude. Thanks for educating us.
I’ve been watching and studying your videos for months. Finally got the courage to do one of our bathrooms using liquid Hydroban and FloFx like you’ve used in a few of your videos. Thank you for your great videos. I learn something in each one.
Always watching something of yours. This looks like my shower except I had a cinder block bench at the back. Thank goodness for small jackhammers! Water damage superficial (studs good) luckily. House built in the 80s. Now putting it back together. First shower renovation ever for me. Have watched hours of video, picked up the consistencies & pointers, talked w a local plumber friend. Wish me luck!
Started out c hammer & chisel. Too much work. Quickly converted to Dremel to get between tile, oscillator to get drywall. Then pry bar to get chunks off the studs. Much easier!
Great advice on having people around you when you work. Having a helper helps in so many ways, carrying the craft forward is one but also having someone to bullshit with during the day is super important mentally.
3pc systems work just fine. Just as long as the company install it knows what there doing & installs it correctly. Enjoy your videos & good to see you with pads back on! Take care my friend! KOKO!
Discovered your channel a few days ago and it's been a great help. I'm learning a lot. I'm currently doing a renovation on our 2nd bathroom of our house. The demolition itself was a lot of work. I have a tiny window to dump out the debris into a trash bin sitting outside the house. After the bin was full, it was so heavy, I had to call a friend and his sons over to help me roll it out to the curb. Even with the 4 of us, it took some effort.
Thank you for your channel and the resource I have to turn to for any tips! God bless!
If you're going to be doing tile work, this channel is great. Also check out Sal DiBlasi here on RUclips for even more examples. Between the two of them, it's pretty likely they've showed an install that is similar to yours.
Really love the comments about needing people, and help; especially if you enjoy the person/people. Enjoy your videos.
Great video. As a DIYer, Ive done 2 bathrooms now watching your videos and still learning from you! I am now going to tackle the master ! Ive been asking about the Tile redi alternative I have been using, so good to see you used it here in your small clips.
Just finished removing the exact same shower in my house the exact same way, but without the jack hammer which is overkill as a mini mall (5 lb sledge with a shorty handle) worked to create the break-off points as sectioned pieces. It was a bit of work, but the new tile is installed and grouted, now just need to do the finishing work and it'll be good to go.
Awareness is something that I preach especially to my laborers. I like that you can see the bit biting into the drywall on the other side, but "someone" was looking out and more importantly called out that you could do something better.
Amazing video and I agree with you on people’s reluctance to newer projects. My only two cents is don’t assume new products won’t have their own issues in 10-30 years. I think newer systems make sense but time will always win every argument. Ether way amazing content!
Outstanding video, Isaac. This is Exhibit A of the shortcomings of the traditional hotmop method still used all over California. Every home remodeling contractor should be forced to watch this. Even a simple coat of Redguard on top of that mortar bed would've been a massive improvement over the un-waterproofed mud bed with waterproofing underneath. I can't help but wonder if the thinking behind this type of shower is that it'll last for ten or so years, by which time the homeowner will be remodeling the bathroom anyway. Thanks to videos like yours, a competent DIY'er using newer methods can get a got a longer-lasting shower than a "professional" who only knows one way to do things... the old way.
Even with the new sealed systems, couldn't the water also wick over the curb under the tile, through the thinset getting to the subfloor?
I love your videos man. Informative and Therapeutic :)
Great video! Thanks for posting! The details were very informative!
We DO need people around us. I am an introvert, but i have learned that I need another person on my job sites.
What about the rotted 2x4s at the bottom of the wall there? Would love a video on how you replace those or if you just spray them with mold killer???
I've got the exact same question, bump!
love the attention you've been giving to the scrubber set up. what kind of air volume does it move?
The hot mop has not failed, its the failure of the installer to keep the weep system open. And this has been going on for 30+ years. Now, I hear inspector are checking the weep system on new home builds. Moving forward, the hot mop system will be the reigning champ of shower waterproofing. By the way, I hear there is a company in Northern California that has innovated a way to clear the weep system without removing tile. Pretty high tech stuff
Did you find any water bottles?
I don't have a jack hammer, do have mini circular saw & angle grinder with diamond blades. If I set depth to 3/4" & I'm careful I should be able to cut out small sections as you suggested... Thanks Issac....
What is your goto waterproofing recommendation on shower wall with Hardibacker? What waterproofing material, method?
I’m about to do the same!! 😮
Been a fan for years and years Isaac but a panliner weeping system that is done completely perfect with epoxy grout will not fail. I’ve torn out 30 year old showers that did not fail and nothing was wet… it’s about not skipping any steps!!! Just my two cents!
So I’m having a curbless shower with a frameless fixed panel, same as the one you installed a while back. Question, does it sit directly on tile or would you add a saddle?
can you please do a video comparing rss and shluter
My demo did not have chicken wire. It had metal lathe nailed to the studs. And no drywall at all. In the section you pulled off there would have been 15 to 20 2 1/2 inch roofing style nails. It just didn’t budge. Had to chip away. Any suggestions appreciated.
I love your videos just one quick question on the sealed systems grout Is never water proof so where will the water go that Works it's way down To your waterproofing ?
It will evaporate
@@TileCoach I guess we will see in 20 years if there is a problem with mold at the base of the shower thanks for replying . Keep up the great work . After 40 plus years setting tile you are one of the few guys I generally agree with .👍💪
@@rexgross5073 Sealed system installs have been around over 20 years now; we're coming up on 30.
Even with a pan-liner or hot-mop, some of the water that migrates into the grout and mortar bed will not be able to fall to the drain due to adhesion (surface tension). The adhesion between the water molecules and the pores in the grout/mortar will be strong enough to overcome gravity and hold the water in tension inside the crystal structure. So both types of system need some level of ventilation on the outside so that trapped water can evaporate out as vapor.
I would presume that there is generally less trapped water in a 3-piece drain system with a liner since some of it will drain via gravity, but it isn't 100% clear because a sealed system can only hold water in the grout and thinset, whereas the liner system could also hold some in the mortar bed.
@@Anytus2007 thank you for your opinion. I agree both systems have areas of concern and failure.
I would always cap the shower or tub outlet, just in case the valve is hit during demo. Especially after the walls are demoed and the water can cause a big mess.
I have an enclosed shower with a tile ceiling on that? Trying to figure out how to know it out without it falling on my head.
Just curious, do you use preformed shower trays (acrylic) in Ireland they would be far more popular than a tiled base.
Yes, this is a common method of building a shower in the US that you will see on many homes. It is "more popular" here as well in that if you go into a random house, you are much more likely to see a preformed tub or tray than you are a tiled base. It is usually much cheaper, but is also considered not as nice of a finish. Isaac usually does higher-end stuff and his clients seem to prefer the look and feel of all-tile showers.
Thanks for the reply @@Anytus2007
Hi I would like to prefer liner system. If you know how to do it I think it is the best system there. Yes it is old and most of the time you have him on all houses. This system is verified. It is very cheap to compare to the new systems. The biggest thing is a question how long new system will work and I like to be trust with product but not make a question it will be working?
You have some videos about shluter pan was leaking. How styrofoam pan can be a shower pan, drop the hummer from 8 feet, try to jump on it. It is weak material. Yes it is much easier to install and is very lightweight. This is business to sell new stuff, new technology but it is not mean it is better than the old one.
I saw one on here, but I don’t remember which channel, that’s a foam pan reinforced with plastic from recycled bottles. It was almost as hard as concrete, but a fraction of the weight. Very cool. I don’t think pure foam pans will be around for long. They’re cool, but vulnerable like you said.
Is that a Tile-Redi pre-slope pan?
A 4 inch grider with a Dimond blade and a shop vac is way cleaner for making the relief cuts in the wall.
If that was a wire lath /two coat mud wall right on the studs the battle would be alot harder!
Also that pan didn't have the most important aspect of the 3pc system. The preslope! With out the preslope & ½" aggregate around collar of the 3pc drain to protect the weep holes the entire system will fail all the time! Again will say the bonding flange/ sealed systems don't allow water to dry out especially using lighter marble mosaics even if sealed! Have installed all three systems over past 23 yrs. In my opinion the original 3pc done correctly with correct techniques & products dries out the fastest & more regular between showers!
What is up with those little pieces of 2x4 that are end to end behind the shower tile? That isn't going to support jack! Why would you do what when an 8 foot 2x4 only costs a few bucks?
Where is the water shut off located?
Check the corner of your house that’s closest to the water meter…
Provide all the facts! Are the weep holes plugged up by the hot mop? Was there gravel at the weep holes? These would two reasons why there is standing water! It's not because is a old system that should be retired! It was not done 100% correctly.
What is the pitch on slope board? It doesn't look like 1/4 per foot from the video!
In my area all the float is on the studs
No drywall or plywood just chicken wire on the 2x4s then float over
It’s a hassle to remove
Using a grinder with a tile and metal blade will quickly cut that tile into manageable pieces, even if it has the wire backing they use out here in Texas. I did two bathrooms that were about 80% tile and once I moved to using the grinder it went really fast and easy and made much less of a mess.
Would it also do the floor ? And how much smaller where the piece's you did?
Solid!
💪 Rony 💪
This guy gets after it
how can you say the new systems are better when they havent been around long enough for a true test. i know you see a lot of failures but for every failure you see there are tens of thousands of showers out there that have lasted 30 40 or even 50 yrs wit h the old system. i have personally done hundreds cant remember any of them failling/ wicking over the curb.
9:02 That's a Chingadero where I'm from...
I Do repair service work and repolishing etc. No one ever uses weep hole protectors and in some cases dont even preslope the pan!
Ive had the new vs old argument. Everything has a chance to work if properly executed. Some dont like the light weight feel of foam but it took people to the moon, so.......
I just tore out a tile bathroom from the 60's. I bet that SOB weighed 3000 lbs. Lol
In 15 years let us know how the slooter, curdy ect. Ect. Worked out
The use of tile and mortor joints is a recipe for leaks....
Job security rules..
Sealed system is the way.
Is this the first time you did this? Keep that mask on too! That dust is very bad for your lungs! Vacuum and masonry wheel way faster and cuts the chicken wire too. Also not so easy with backer board and screws!! A wall that short can be done in two pieces on the sides at least.
I hate hearing these guys call a traditional pan a “water in, water out system”. They make it sound like everytime that you use the shower water is going straight through the tile to the pan!! If water is going through the tile and grout to the liner then your shower has already failed, period! The majority of these failed showers are due to lack of maintenance with the grout and caulking. Whether it be a pan liner or foam pan they both serve the same purpose and that is to serve as a safety barrier should your grout and tile fail to keep from destroying your wood structure. Really wish a lot of these tile guys would focus more on how to keep it from failing to start with. Such as proper maintenance.
What kind of sealer do you like to use on the shower floors and walls
I don't understand this comment. No tile, grout, or sealer manufacturer that I know of markets their products as a water-proofing system. The only grout that I know of that is 100% waterproof is epoxy grout. Porcelain tiles have quite low water absorption, but it is certainly not zero. Same thing with sealers; they work primarily by making the surface more hydrophobic, which causes beading, but they cannot keep out standing or running water.
Can you point to any testing that shows that properly installed and maintained tile and grout does not allow water into the mortar bed under normal shower conditions?
@@Anytus2007 yeah I was wondering what kind of grout sealer it was that kept water out I haven’t found any kind that keeps water from seeping into the grout when sealer is applied it keeps the grout from staining easily but I don’t think it’s a water blocker it does help the water from penetrating as fast , when most people take a shower it’s not going the seep through the grout unless the drain is stopped up and the water stays in the pan
You no good