I'd just apologize for the Supra placement! Clearly, you guys haven't seen Max Orido taking his Supra on the touge in the 90s-early 2000s lmfao! Jokes aside the Supra is fine on the touge just needs more intense modifications than most to make up for its weight, and even then it ofc won't hold a candle relative to its capabilities in drag racing... But that said it's still incredibly capable as a touge car, because you know 90s Toyota lol, not saying it should be A or anything but D or low C would be more appropriate imo, but that's just my opinion.
they didn't rate the 3rd gen MR2 which is one of the fastest cars I've seen on the touge, and is also decently cheap (good examples around $10k) the only downside is the precats and oil starvation. hopefully they'll continue this and keep adding cars.
I think it's so cool that between the two of you guys you've driven/owned/been best friends with someone who's owned 99% of the list edit on rewatch: 13:03 bros are in sync
You guys forgot the most underrated Touge car, the Toyota MR-S! (Search up Techno Pro Spirits MRS) it’s on par with the RX7 & AE86. It’s the lightest, most agile and balanced MR2 out of the 3, and should be in the Top 5. Also, don’t sleep on those late 90’s Evos. That AYC makes them monsters in corners.
@@kekethetoadevos are rare and expensive to own and maintain, they are awesome cars but it’s hard to justify when they get blown away by S2000s and rx7s
@@sav7123 lmao literally when do they ever??? Go watch any best motoring or similar race videos from the era between stock evo 4-6's and fd's or s2k's and see how the latter get left behind every damn time. Hell even NSX's get dusted. Cringe reddit zoomer meetbro take
Evo should be at least in A imo because of the fact that it has factory rolling antilag mixed with short gears makes it a pretty fast car in low speed corners especially on those type of roads
facts, and the handling on them is amazing especially compared to a toyota gr86, also evos are so good to modify especially for the touge, a little more hp and some suspension tuning makes it s tier
Glad to see the S2000 and Miata placed in S. Both cars are great, been enjoying my AP2 and doing ride alongs in a few Miatas I think they are excellent cars for this environment.
the base z comes with an open diff which for drifting you’ll have to use a lot of proper weight transfer to get you sliding smoothly. for touge w the base it’s somewhat dangerous if you’re just starting out. like tsuchi said their is a lot of under steer w the open diff. that can be your life. with someone who has an open diff trust me spend your money right get the track edition or one of the civics, it’s a good starter car that will get you comfortable on the touge. you can “technically” save money by buying the base and getting an aftermarket lsd or hr lsd. for drifting you can weld it but if you’re just starting out i recommend the lsd
Stock vlsd isn’t great either especially when they age or get too hot. Best is to go with a helical type QUAIFE or a clutch type like a Cusco or Kaaz Even with that you still gotta do other stuff with suspension tuning and driving style to help with the front grip on these cars
As a z owner I will say they just take some time to figure out, a big squared tire setup and proper spring rates and swaybars will go a LONG way, mine is a de with oem brembos, upgraded pads and fluid I have 0 issues braking and have never come accross fade the brembos are a great braking setup, running a 265-285 stagger tire and a big front swaybar with stock rear, car seems to handle amazing. They can be good but they take money and time to get perfect
As a HR owner I will tell you the Z is NOT meant for touge. You can upgrade suspension all you want but they slide out WAY too easily and you will end up using only 30% of your power which is pointless. Take a Honda up the touge and it will be night and day. Not sure how much you push on the mountain but if you're going all out on the Z you will definitely crash. They're meant for straight line and sliding nothing else, and in that they outshine many other cars in their category.
@@dylanBehrproductions yea you’re a high school kid who’s never really pushed his car on the touge. You have to be around crazy drivers to know the limitations of your car. Plus you drive a DE and it’s probably auto so any opinion you have is invalid
PLEASE do more tier list and talking videos. They are so entertaining and easy. I’ve watched the cars you’ve owned tier list video multiple times already because it’s so funny and interesting
love the vid format. Evo 5's are dope touge cars. Im sure youve seen the topfoil touge evo on yt. evo 5's are little weapons. Light, responsive and love mods
I’m biased for sure, but I think the 86 deserved S. You knocked it down for reliability, but after 2013 year, they were SOOO reliable. This video was dope and you should do more like this
eh A is as far as it should go, its expensive for the power you get and it has no modding potential, with so-so reliability. great chassis and they are an amazing option for engine swapping.
@@jamfd3s788 It's a touge list, power isn't really the main concern, plus an s2k is going to cost you a lot more and I would argue they aren't much faster. I beat the absolute piss outta my 86 daily and I've never had an issue.
Here at Tail of the Dragon, I’ve been blessed with some of the best touge driving experiences in North America…Don’t forget the legendary series 2 Mazda RX8 R3 (from experience), Nissan 300zx, Focus RS, Porsche 911, and (believe it or not) the Ford Thunderbird Supercoupe!
Need to see more euro and American cars get built for twisty driving, it would really add some variety to the culture. The aesthetics are just a little off unfortunately.
Not just the aesthetics, most of those cars are built for the roads that are around where they were developed, German cars are made to be driven incredibly fast for long periods of time because of the Autobahn, with American cars also being quite similar, while Japan is mostly made of twisty roads where massive amounts of HP aren't as useful unless your racing illegally on the high but since that's significantly more dangerous for the public due to the high speeds manufacturers won't necessarily encourage that in the same way... Another great example is Ferrari and Lamborghini, Lambos handle like tractors on tight roads because they were built with the wide open roads around where Lamborghini is based vs Ferraris which generally speaking handle great because Maranello is very mountainous with tight roads like Japan. This is the reason that Teslas have trouble way up in the north because testing is not a substitute for living in an environment for years on end.
@@griffins750Great explanation man, so on Stuttgart where Porsches are developed should be a truly interesting place because they are good in handling and in straight line performance, maybe because Porsche test them in Nurburgring Nordschleife and on the Autobahns.
@@8Lucas1Simoes2lsdGT Thank you! But I can’t take the credit for that unfortunately. The concept was brought to my attention by two incredible automotive journalists (Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott) on the podcast that they share (The Carmudgeon Show). They did an entire episode around the topic of cars being influence by where they’re built among other things. I’ve learn so much from listening to them it’s genuinely amazing, they screw around a lot and have fun with it but they also have so a wealth of knowledge and information, specifically about German and Italian cars (although not completely limited to it), that it’s honestly amazing to listen to them talk.
Hey Tsuchi, wanted to ask where would you rank the ae86? I own one and I’m wanting to get into touge - I’ve done the basics of suspension (modified strut casings) and rebuilding the engine (16v bigport itbs, made around 150 to the wheels on the dyno), still planning on experimenting with different parts and other settings to make it “perfect”. Just wondering how it holds up against the others
@@nootologyyeah I can see it being very similar to the NA, both are very simple - though the corolla is very primitive while the NA has a bit more sophisticated suspension (corolla is a live axle!!)
@@TheRealThanhNgoit’s a painfully expensive platform, odd since it really doesn’t take much to make it look good - you’re just overpaying that much for everything.
When you make another video like this. You should account in a Mazda Rx8. A great chasis, double a arm front, multilink suspension in the rear, 50/50 weight distribution. Great interior, descent trunk space. Can be had for real cheap and for some big money. Yeah yeah the all internet haters about the renesis motor. You can make a few upgrades to the motor and it's solid. I personally have a 2006 Rx8 with a rebuilt motor and I daily it. Such a great car, plus it revs to 9500 rpm🤘
@@Sina-rw3bl its all about the smiles per gallon. FYI I'm getting arround 12L/100km while driving the car spiritedly every day. On the highway I get 7-8L/100km. It's not bad. But you don't buy a sports car for fuel economy
As an MR2 driver I can confirm these things are a dream once you get over the fear of oversteer. That being said, I don't own the 90s SW20, I have the 80s AW11. But same concept just lighter and less power.
1st gen Imprezas are dope. People STI swap them all the time. They usually go for 4k-5k for okay ones and 5k-8k for really good ones. I love my Impreza coupe it’s fun as fuck and they look good too.
Can confirm gc8's are rockets, mine makes 400hp on low boost and 500hp on high, and with the proper setup they oversteer unlike most awd cars, I love them and would never get rid of mine
I used to do mountain runs back in arizona in my fully done 2002 wrx and after meets on Fridays I’d cruise out there and there was a group of Miata’s, it’s funny that you said that, they rip stupidly, uphill I’d pull, downhill, id have to let them by, one of them was turboed and he was untouchable
In my experience I lot of togue cars I see in my area aren’t really modified a lot to build power mostly stock engines with expensive suspension setups and wheels and tires
43:05 I just found your channel and its motivated me to go out and find some twisty roads and run them! I didn't know that there were roads like that so close by its crazy. 43:05 I own one of these Imprezas and its a dream to drive. I own a green base model coupe from '97 and its got one of subarus most reliable engines the NA 2.2l boxer! The base model is 2600lbs and AWD, i've got some period correct JDM STI seats and the JDM carbon fiber STI strut bars as well. 04 WRX wheels (that are super light at 16.?lbs) and rear sway bar. Granted its only maybe got 135HP but with some sticky tires its crazy how quckly you can take corners. They are now worth 4x more than they did 5 years ago and they all rot out at the rear quarter panel so finding a good one is very difficult. i my slightly biased opinion its a A tier.
Had a k24/20 em1, ep3 type r brakes, 17x8 235 ad08r, coilovers and all adjustable arms, absolute monster of a touge car, put the hurt on 360whp evos, sti and golf r, bmw m3 regularly on the touge and track
Man. Iv been building and running my 2021 Corolla se e210 sedan. I got lucky and got the nightshade. But I’m building it for grip and it’s insane man. People really don’t believe me till I show them some footage of me hitting my local road. Like it really is an insane grip car man fr fr
Fd is a great car and I agree that maintenance is expensive. As far as motors, your first engine broke due to bad tune and cheap plugs. The second engine was a rebuild fluke if I am not mistaken. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have not had that same experience with my Fd. Running 426rwhp with all supporting mods since 2015. Brap on
First motor blew due to the fact it was 21 years old and oil melted the rotor bearings. Turns out running touge in 90 degree weather with a stock oil cooler wasn't such a great idea... This current motor should last me, crossing my fingers! Other than that the car has been a blessing!
That makes sense. Cooling is super important on rotary cars. By design they create a lot of heat but 21 years on the original motor is damn good in my eyes. Keep the vids coming brother, for I really enjoy them. Brap on brother.
I'd be hella interested to know y'alls opinion on the GT vs GR for the 86, bc I've heard the GR has notably better performance with the FA24. Obv 230hp isn't anything crazy, but still significant on the straight aways on a mountain compared to the GT.
10:30 I’m suprised, it’s one of the best handling cars out there. That’s where it’s cult following actually makes it an underrated car, it’s a fantastic performance car. More than just an engine
Every time I go shopping I gotta drive my mom's 23 Crosstrek with a 6 speed manual, and I have a super windy road I drive to get to Walmart. I learned manual on the car at 16, but it may be slow in the straights but through the corners, it's QUICK. 6 speed manual, AWD, short wheel base, Limited slip differentials, decent suspension stock, 187hp from an N/A flat 4 engine that distributes the weight well and only weighting 3200ish lbs, it's quick around the corners and it's modern too, most modern cars will tear up a mountain road, not saying that the old stuff is bad but like this new stuff is good. I'm still gonna buy that AE86 down the road though
I know this was for jdm cars but 99-04 mustangs are pretty light, make a lot of low end torque, and can fit 305s without rolling the fenders. You need a lot of suspension work but mustang parts are so cheap. You can do the entire suspension for sub $1500. That’s shocks, struts, sway bars, a bump steer kit, and caster camber plates. Add slotted rotors and better pads and the breaks are more than enough. I’m definitely biased but I run mine all the time and it is way faster than my zl1 1le on the touge
*renault clio 3-4 lurking in the background (renault megane are also great af)* i know some ppls will be like "ew la french voiture it's gonna break", the only unreliable things are gearbox and sometimes electronic stuff. they are cheap + clean (clio 3 in france : 5k$, clio 4 : 9k, megane can vary in price, especially the sport editions) and are MONSTERS in the alps, great chassis, under 1.2 tons (2600 pounds), and super cheap to drive and maintain. my clio 4 is a pretty stock 90bhp diesel with a good 150k of learner drivers, nothing ever broke (except the gearbox being a lil weird) and can surprisingly keep up against a few bmw, even though i'm a pretty bad driver Also special mention to hyundai i20 sport which are demons and the new peuegeaueot 208 which keeps up very well
Thought i'd mention it because was surprised you didn't know, its been done for all gens with fabrication, but the SW20 has a practically plug and play at this point swap for 2GR V6 that leave it lighter and lower CoG then the stock Turbo setup with who knows how good (Camry, various Lexus etc) type reliability. So far as snap oversteer, really really bad on 91-92, very hard to fix unless you did some changes to pickup points, the 93-95+ are much more tame stock, and have a trick where if you lower the rear suspension -1 inch vs the front and respring the car for a bit stiffer front it completely ceases to exist, if you want to flatten ride height can mismatch tire diameter front to rear to level it again. That style setup took over national autocross scene for like a decade or more, been in one and its like a grip car that transitions into very gentle drifting with ease, most likable thing ever honestly. But thats not stock and if you guys didn't know any of that doubt most buyers would unless they really dig. I'd be interested where you might place the ZZW30 frogmobile as fans of Hot Motoring.
So the GC8's can be had from 3 to 10k depending on condition (and where you live) I would say with how light they are and the ability to swap in a wrx/sti engine makes these a good choice. The 2.5 NA are the engines with the notorious headgasket issues (which the turbo models do not have) Adding in the AWD Factor. These suckers can rip
3rd gen mr2 super slept on. U guys watch bestmotoring so yall should know that a stock interior, stock brakes, mr2 spyder has the second fastest lap time down the touge. Also the first gen gc8 sti (so turbo'd) weighed between 2600-2740, dont sleep on how light they were.
Feel like my Mazda 3 is decent weighs about 3k pounds and makes decent low end torque with a decently long power band . Love ripping it frontside up the 9burg definitely need wheels & suspension to make it a better downhill car and more seat time to get better uphill
I touge a voloster n, it rips, save 8k form the ctr and put it into the car, put a front and rear sway bar in it, add rear chassie bracing and that tourqe vectoring from that electronic slip diff hits different. Will say the north America ones dont come with the big brake kit the Korean ones have but you can import or get the forge... oh babe... and with a toon you can make 310 with no bolt-ons its is slept on.
Ik im late to the party, but for European standard, 3 series are such a great choice. Even dumbass e36. Its just so versatile. 1.6 and 1.8 have enough to be really decent downhill (you will need brakes, tires and preferably suspension done though) and can be easlly swapped to 2.6 or 2.8 which is capable of good uphill tempo. Same goes for e46. Other badass picks for europebros would be Renault Megane and Clio, Audi A3, Ford Sierra and any Peugot with a turbo you can get your hands on. Real pocket rockets
In Germany, the e36 chassis is just like the civic in state, they are so fast in nurburgring. Just through a s50b32 (euro m3 engine) in it and tires and brakes and it just flys lol
I'm gonna be able to build a track weapon soon, that may or may not find its way to the odd Togue. I really can't decide what to get though. All I know is I want it to be light, 2 door, highly capable chassis, enormous aftermarket support, and something I won't cry over for the rest of my life if I bin it. I'm thinking maybe an EG or EJ Civic, BG Familia, any 90's Celica, SR20 Primera or Pulsar, AE82/92 Corolla, or something along those lines.
I really liked this video and its my first time watching....I didnt mind you guys eating during. I woukd like to know what you guys thinks of the AE86 overall how much more does an EJ1 civic weigh than the EG with a JDMB18B non VTEC. Its hard to get the actual weight since the car didnt come with that engine.
I have a grip 200sx S13 CA18det, and it is a killer touge car, here in europe. I'd put it in class S. It has power, (270hp) 1200kg, and 50/50 weight balance. King of touge
10 years down the line gr86s (not gt86) will absolutely be S tier, fairly expensive right now with dealer markups plus very low production would probably put it in with the gt86
@@yz992 I joke, but yeah, it's definitely too expensive right now to be viable for most people, since an FRS is 1/3 the cost and only lacks power which you can add with a turbo/SC
fun fact the fa20(brz/86 engine) is more reliable than the ej’s (wrx engine) and because of the difference in how they are built are better for building for power.
ya know, if i had money this video would be significantly more useful. stuck with an 06 altima but its got 4 wheels and gets me from point a to point b so not bad
IM SORRY FOR CHEWING NEXT TIME ILL EAT BEFORE 😅
naaaaa brotha we just vibin!!
Eating's not too bad. Not great for talking. I think people would just prefer I little less lip smacking in their ears.
I'd just apologize for the Supra placement! Clearly, you guys haven't seen Max Orido taking his Supra on the touge in the 90s-early 2000s lmfao!
Jokes aside the Supra is fine on the touge just needs more intense modifications than most to make up for its weight, and even then it ofc won't hold a candle relative to its capabilities in drag racing... But that said it's still incredibly capable as a touge car, because you know 90s Toyota lol, not saying it should be A or anything but D or low C would be more appropriate imo, but that's just my opinion.
mans chewing like a goddamn farm animal, triggering
ASMR car tier list
Griffin takes ONE bite and immediately apologizes for eating...then you got Eric SMACKING the whole video 😂😂😂😂
lmao it was unnoticeable
You should continue to add more cars to this list and build a massive tier list and you can make it a series!
yes
i second this
!!
for sure
they didn't rate the 3rd gen MR2 which is one of the fastest cars I've seen on the touge, and is also decently cheap (good examples around $10k) the only downside is the precats and oil starvation. hopefully they'll continue this and keep adding cars.
I think it's so cool that between the two of you guys you've driven/owned/been best friends with someone who's owned 99% of the list
edit on rewatch: 13:03 bros are in sync
Pretty common because early 2000s and prior, all of these cars were very cheap comparatively
IS THAT 4TOUGE
THE ONE AND ONLY
They need an intro or a sound everything they say "is that 4touge?" Something like the batman intro with the spinning logo lol
No
I like that you're trying out new things with the channel.
You guys forgot the most underrated Touge car, the Toyota MR-S! (Search up Techno Pro Spirits MRS) it’s on par with the RX7 & AE86. It’s the lightest, most agile and balanced MR2 out of the 3, and should be in the Top 5.
Also, don’t sleep on those late 90’s Evos. That AYC makes them monsters in corners.
Or you can strip down an evo x, the updated AWD system is leagues better
1st gen mr2 is pretty solid as well, not quite as light and agile but pretty close and easier to get where I live
I recently took my evo on the touge and it performed super well high grip, no body roll at all, and fast as hell
Evo 4-6 are super grippy in Touges. I miss my V 😢
Exactly. These kids are just going by friend of a friend 'meet facts' & reddit crap. Evo 4-6 RS/GSR decimate all on this list it's not even fair.
@@kekethetoadevos are rare and expensive to own and maintain, they are awesome cars but it’s hard to justify when they get blown away by S2000s and rx7s
@@sav7123 lmao literally when do they ever??? Go watch any best motoring or similar race videos from the era between stock evo 4-6's and fd's or s2k's and see how the latter get left behind every damn time. Hell even NSX's get dusted. Cringe reddit zoomer meetbro take
@@kekethetoad out of the top 10 sector Times on gunsai, none of them are set by evos, however the top 2 cars are the ones i mentioned
driving across the US rn and just watched this whole video without realizing how long it was keep up the good vids
Evo should be at least in A imo because of the fact that it has factory rolling antilag mixed with short gears makes it a pretty fast car in low speed corners especially on those type of roads
facts, and the handling on them is amazing especially compared to a toyota gr86, also evos are so good to modify especially for the touge, a little more hp and some suspension tuning makes it s tier
We all know the geo metro is the goat for touge
Zastava Yugo
nah its got to be the big body brius
Yessssirrrrrr that original in-line 3 😮💨😮💨😮💨😮💨😮💨😮💨
Daihatsu midget
Me with a 1994 Suzuki swift:😦
13:04
the in sinc "yeah soo" was so perfect
Best JDM couple on RUclips right here
Glad to see the S2000 and Miata placed in S. Both cars are great, been enjoying my AP2 and doing ride alongs in a few Miatas I think they are excellent cars for this environment.
This was good guys, appreciate the vid. Been in the market for a 90's-00's touge project and this has been very helpful.
the base z comes with an open diff which for drifting you’ll have to use a lot of proper weight transfer to get you sliding smoothly. for touge w the base it’s somewhat dangerous if you’re just starting out. like tsuchi said their is a lot of under steer w the open diff. that can be your life. with someone who has an open diff trust me spend your money right get the track edition or one of the civics, it’s a good starter car that will get you comfortable on the touge. you can “technically” save money by buying the base and getting an aftermarket lsd or hr lsd. for drifting you can weld it but if you’re just starting out i recommend the lsd
VQ4L
Open diff?!? That's wild for a performance car with that much power.
@@christopherjohnston6343 it’s 230whp and 3200lbs not that much power compared to weight
Stock vlsd isn’t great either especially when they age or get too hot. Best is to go with a helical type QUAIFE or a clutch type like a Cusco or Kaaz
Even with that you still gotta do other stuff with suspension tuning and driving style to help with the front grip on these cars
TSUCHI UPLOADED LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOO
Griffin too LETS GO, and another tier list, W
As an EG civic hatch owner i’m honoured with the ranking xD I’m also a student rn working part time trying to build it for touge
Tein Flex Z, 15x7 wheels. Hankook RS4s. Spicy Brake Fluid and pads.
Gut the interior.
Done.
Oh B20 swap is fire too
Don't gut your car though that should only be done if you max out skill your driving. You should appreciate the interior of your vehicle as well
@@melancholypuppy3595 I was sure there was a question I was responding to.
Maybe something was deleted or edited.
@@christopherjohnston6343 Screw hankooks. Get Nankang, cheap, good stuff.
As a z owner I will say they just take some time to figure out, a big squared tire setup and proper spring rates and swaybars will go a LONG way, mine is a de with oem brembos, upgraded pads and fluid I have 0 issues braking and have never come accross fade the brembos are a great braking setup, running a 265-285 stagger tire and a big front swaybar with stock rear, car seems to handle amazing. They can be good but they take money and time to get perfect
As a HR owner I will tell you the Z is NOT meant for touge. You can upgrade suspension all you want but they slide out WAY too easily and you will end up using only 30% of your power which is pointless. Take a Honda up the touge and it will be night and day. Not sure how much you push on the mountain but if you're going all out on the Z you will definitely crash. They're meant for straight line and sliding nothing else, and in that they outshine many other cars in their category.
@ericpark9710 if you suck at driving just say that bro😂
@@dylanBehrproductions yea you’re a high school kid who’s never really pushed his car on the touge. You have to be around crazy drivers to know the limitations of your car. Plus you drive a DE and it’s probably auto so any opinion you have is invalid
PLEASE do more tier list and talking videos. They are so entertaining and easy. I’ve watched the cars you’ve owned tier list video multiple times already because it’s so funny and interesting
1:30 in and the eating is already insane. Who eats like that?! Close your mouth bro, flies are gonna get in.😂
love the vid format. Evo 5's are dope touge cars. Im sure youve seen the topfoil touge evo on yt. evo 5's are little weapons. Light, responsive and love mods
I rewatch the topfoil evo video every now and then!
@@DmitriyKl same. Legendary vid
I’m biased for sure, but I think the 86 deserved S. You knocked it down for reliability, but after 2013 year, they were SOOO reliable. This video was dope and you should do more like this
eh A is as far as it should go, its expensive for the power you get and it has no modding potential, with so-so reliability. great chassis and they are an amazing option for engine swapping.
@@jamfd3s788 I just boosted mine and that thing boogies lol. It is quite expensive to do though.
can confirm, my 2017 is at 53k and still running strong with full catless, and tune. knock on wood tho i dont want to eat my words down the road lol
@@jamfd3s788 It's a touge list, power isn't really the main concern, plus an s2k is going to cost you a lot more and I would argue they aren't much faster. I beat the absolute piss outta my 86 daily and I've never had an issue.
@@SpiritBRZ I boosted mine at 100k miles and it’s going strong. Knock on wood but this car has treated me very well.
These videos are great. You two makes fun and great convos!
Here at Tail of the Dragon, I’ve been blessed with some of the best touge driving experiences in North America…Don’t forget the legendary series 2 Mazda RX8 R3 (from experience), Nissan 300zx, Focus RS, Porsche 911, and (believe it or not) the Ford Thunderbird Supercoupe!
Need to see more euro and American cars get built for twisty driving, it would really add some variety to the culture. The aesthetics are just a little off unfortunately.
Not just the aesthetics, most of those cars are built for the roads that are around where they were developed, German cars are made to be driven incredibly fast for long periods of time because of the Autobahn, with American cars also being quite similar, while Japan is mostly made of twisty roads where massive amounts of HP aren't as useful unless your racing illegally on the high but since that's significantly more dangerous for the public due to the high speeds manufacturers won't necessarily encourage that in the same way... Another great example is Ferrari and Lamborghini, Lambos handle like tractors on tight roads because they were built with the wide open roads around where Lamborghini is based vs Ferraris which generally speaking handle great because Maranello is very mountainous with tight roads like Japan. This is the reason that Teslas have trouble way up in the north because testing is not a substitute for living in an environment for years on end.
"Aesthetics are a little off"
Bro has never looked beyond JDM domain, opinion rejected
@@griffins750Great explanation man, so on Stuttgart where Porsches are developed should be a truly interesting place because they are good in handling and in straight line performance, maybe because Porsche test them in Nurburgring Nordschleife and on the Autobahns.
@@8Lucas1Simoes2lsdGT Thank you! But I can’t take the credit for that unfortunately. The concept was brought to my attention by two incredible automotive journalists (Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott) on the podcast that they share (The Carmudgeon Show). They did an entire episode around the topic of cars being influence by where they’re built among other things. I’ve learn so much from listening to them it’s genuinely amazing, they screw around a lot and have fun with it but they also have so a wealth of knowledge and information, specifically about German and Italian cars (although not completely limited to it), that it’s honestly amazing to listen to them talk.
@@griffins750 I don't really agree with this. So many Euro cars can handle amazing. M Cars, Mercedes AMG cars, Porsches, etc
love these typa videos
Hey Tsuchi, wanted to ask where would you rank the ae86? I own one and I’m wanting to get into touge - I’ve done the basics of suspension (modified strut casings) and rebuilding the engine (16v bigport itbs, made around 150 to the wheels on the dyno), still planning on experimenting with different parts and other settings to make it “perfect”.
Just wondering how it holds up against the others
It's probably comparable to an NA Miata since it's got similar weight, power, and it's rwd
Great platform by all the videos I see, just expensive right now so that does bump the rating down a bit probably
@@nootologyyeah I can see it being very similar to the NA, both are very simple - though the corolla is very primitive while the NA has a bit more sophisticated suspension (corolla is a live axle!!)
@@TheRealThanhNgoit’s a painfully expensive platform, odd since it really doesn’t take much to make it look good - you’re just overpaying that much for everything.
Overpriced thanks to a silly anime. A Miata is better in every way except practicality.
Honestly pretty valid list when considering price
love these vids, feels like we’re just chilling with you guys ❤️
When you make another video like this. You should account in a Mazda Rx8. A great chasis, double a arm front, multilink suspension in the rear, 50/50 weight distribution. Great interior, descent trunk space. Can be had for real cheap and for some big money. Yeah yeah the all internet haters about the renesis motor. You can make a few upgrades to the motor and it's solid. I personally have a 2006 Rx8 with a rebuilt motor and I daily it. Such a great car, plus it revs to 9500 rpm🤘
Must be fun spending about as much as truck drivers do on gas too right?
Facts I was hoping it would have been in there
@@Sina-rw3bl its all about the smiles per gallon. FYI I'm getting arround 12L/100km while driving the car spiritedly every day. On the highway I get 7-8L/100km. It's not bad. But you don't buy a sports car for fuel economy
Newer wrx gotta be s tier. The older models had a lot of problems that got weeded out but the handles if you know how to work it is amazing
As an (ap1) s2000 owner I’m glad it’s S-tier ❤
As an MR2 driver I can confirm these things are a dream once you get over the fear of oversteer. That being said, I don't own the 90s SW20, I have the 80s AW11. But same concept just lighter and less power.
1st gen Imprezas are dope. People STI swap them all the time. They usually go for 4k-5k for okay ones and 5k-8k for really good ones. I love my Impreza coupe it’s fun as fuck and they look good too.
Can confirm gc8's are rockets, mine makes 400hp on low boost and 500hp on high, and with the proper setup they oversteer unlike most awd cars, I love them and would never get rid of mine
YEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSS TSUCHI LOVES THE EG HATCHES LESGOOOOOOOOOO
u guys are an inspiration. love the variety of videos.
honestly a Eric and Griffin podcast would be lit
Ive been waiting for this list !!! love u guys
I used to do mountain runs back in arizona in my fully done 2002 wrx and after meets on Fridays I’d cruise out there and there was a group of Miata’s, it’s funny that you said that, they rip stupidly, uphill I’d pull, downhill, id have to let them by, one of them was turboed and he was untouchable
You should also take into consideration potential/ cost of modification. BRZ costs about 8k to turbo properly, an EJ takes $1000 to add 100hp.
Then blows up
In my experience I lot of togue cars I see in my area aren’t really modified a lot to build power mostly stock engines with expensive suspension setups and wheels and tires
yeeeeeeeeeee this some nice long content
43:05
I just found your channel and its motivated me to go out and find some twisty roads and run them! I didn't know that there were roads like that so close by its crazy.
43:05
I own one of these Imprezas and its a dream to drive. I own a green base model coupe from '97 and its got one of subarus most reliable engines the NA 2.2l boxer! The base model is 2600lbs and AWD, i've got some period correct JDM STI seats and the JDM carbon fiber STI strut bars as well. 04 WRX wheels (that are super light at 16.?lbs) and rear sway bar. Granted its only maybe got 135HP but with some sticky tires its crazy how quckly you can take corners. They are now worth 4x more than they did 5 years ago and they all rot out at the rear quarter panel so finding a good one is very difficult. i my slightly biased opinion its a A tier.
Yeah its a shame they blew up in price so much. I'd love to own one once
Had a k24/20 em1, ep3 type r brakes, 17x8 235 ad08r, coilovers and all adjustable arms, absolute monster of a touge car, put the hurt on 360whp evos, sti and golf r, bmw m3 regularly on the touge and track
Man. Iv been building and running my 2021 Corolla se e210 sedan. I got lucky and got the nightshade. But I’m building it for grip and it’s insane man. People really don’t believe me till I show them some footage of me hitting my local road. Like it really is an insane grip car man fr fr
Fd is a great car and I agree that maintenance is expensive. As far as motors, your first engine broke due to bad tune and cheap plugs. The second engine was a rebuild fluke if I am not mistaken. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have not had that same experience with my Fd. Running 426rwhp with all supporting mods since 2015. Brap on
First motor blew due to the fact it was 21 years old and oil melted the rotor bearings. Turns out running touge in 90 degree weather with a stock oil cooler wasn't such a great idea...
This current motor should last me, crossing my fingers! Other than that the car has been a blessing!
That makes sense. Cooling is super important on rotary cars. By design they create a lot of heat but 21 years on the original motor is damn good in my eyes. Keep the vids coming brother, for I really enjoy them. Brap on brother.
I'd be hella interested to know y'alls opinion on the GT vs GR for the 86, bc I've heard the GR has notably better performance with the FA24. Obv 230hp isn't anything crazy, but still significant on the straight aways on a mountain compared to the GT.
need a part 2 to this with more cars
%30 car talking %69 nammm tasty chips... %1 touge
Would be interesting to see the Porsche 996, Boxster, and 718 in here. Maybe a Golf would be cool too
10:30 I’m suprised, it’s one of the best handling cars out there. That’s where it’s cult following actually makes it an underrated car, it’s a fantastic performance car. More than just an engine
These cars do not handle good.
Absolutely not. Lightness is everything in touge and the Supra is just too heavy compared to the steering technology it offers
S+: Honda Fit/Jazz
I was going to mention that! I’ve heard the Fit is fun and thinking of getting one as my first manual before getting something with more hp later on
@@Luhbrudda def get onr theyre cheap, reliable and they have a pretty good chassis
The e36 323 has the uphill record wtf that’s insane
Every time I go shopping I gotta drive my mom's 23 Crosstrek with a 6 speed manual, and I have a super windy road I drive to get to Walmart. I learned manual on the car at 16, but it may be slow in the straights but through the corners, it's QUICK. 6 speed manual, AWD, short wheel base, Limited slip differentials, decent suspension stock, 187hp from an N/A flat 4 engine that distributes the weight well and only weighting 3200ish lbs, it's quick around the corners and it's modern too, most modern cars will tear up a mountain road, not saying that the old stuff is bad but like this new stuff is good. I'm still gonna buy that AE86 down the road though
I have an NC3 miata and I'm so happy to see the NB and ND here. Big fender boi represent
WE LOVE 4.TOUGE
Lets goooooo it's a good day!
tell us your thoughts on the rsx, ek coupe and the evo 8-10 pls
I know this was for jdm cars but 99-04 mustangs are pretty light, make a lot of low end torque, and can fit 305s without rolling the fenders. You need a lot of suspension work but mustang parts are so cheap. You can do the entire suspension for sub $1500. That’s shocks, struts, sway bars, a bump steer kit, and caster camber plates. Add slotted rotors and better pads and the breaks are more than enough. I’m definitely biased but I run mine all the time and it is way faster than my zl1 1le on the touge
I love the commentary videos, please make more lists!!!!!
Definitely not biased, but wish I’d see some more Mazdaspeed on the channel (come to Orlando boys)
S2000 is no Fd but I think it is a good bargain in my book, considering the good performance. Brap on
Guys i know that is not avaible in the US, but the GR Yaris is a beast for Touge runs
*renault clio 3-4 lurking in the background (renault megane are also great af)*
i know some ppls will be like "ew la french voiture it's gonna break", the only unreliable things are gearbox and sometimes electronic stuff. they are cheap + clean (clio 3 in france : 5k$, clio 4 : 9k, megane can vary in price, especially the sport editions) and are MONSTERS in the alps, great chassis, under 1.2 tons (2600 pounds), and super cheap to drive and maintain. my clio 4 is a pretty stock 90bhp diesel with a good 150k of learner drivers, nothing ever broke (except the gearbox being a lil weird) and can surprisingly keep up against a few bmw, even though i'm a pretty bad driver
Also special mention to hyundai i20 sport which are demons and the new peuegeaueot 208 which keeps up very well
btw almost forgot Alpine, a A110 is great for both track and mountains, however expensive af
I m new here but I alr watched sum of ur videos love u keep up the good work
Thought i'd mention it because was surprised you didn't know, its been done for all gens with fabrication, but the SW20 has a practically plug and play at this point swap for 2GR V6 that leave it lighter and lower CoG then the stock Turbo setup with who knows how good (Camry, various Lexus etc) type reliability.
So far as snap oversteer, really really bad on 91-92, very hard to fix unless you did some changes to pickup points, the 93-95+ are much more tame stock, and have a trick where if you lower the rear suspension -1 inch vs the front and respring the car for a bit stiffer front it completely ceases to exist, if you want to flatten ride height can mismatch tire diameter front to rear to level it again. That style setup took over national autocross scene for like a decade or more, been in one and its like a grip car that transitions into very gentle drifting with ease, most likable thing ever honestly. But thats not stock and if you guys didn't know any of that doubt most buyers would unless they really dig.
I'd be interested where you might place the ZZW30 frogmobile as fans of Hot Motoring.
The r32 overshadowing the z32 makes me weep
Eric bro why did u eat that so sus at 7:09 my brother. Good video.
So the GC8's can be had from 3 to 10k depending on condition (and where you live) I would say with how light they are and the ability to swap in a wrx/sti engine makes these a good choice.
The 2.5 NA are the engines with the notorious headgasket issues (which the turbo models do not have)
Adding in the AWD Factor. These suckers can rip
3rd gen mr2 super slept on. U guys watch bestmotoring so yall should know that a stock interior, stock brakes, mr2 spyder has the second fastest lap time down the touge. Also the first gen gc8 sti (so turbo'd) weighed between 2600-2740, dont sleep on how light they were.
These types of videos are pretty entertaining
Regarding cars that weren't included I would've liked to see normal e46s and also 335is on the list
Also a crx maybe
20:28 i think you guys are talking about TougeFiles
This type of content is great, keep it up 🧌
What about the 7th gen celica? both the gt and the gts
Nice list! i'm so happy the EG Civic and a Miata are S tier 😁👌
Feel like my Mazda 3 is decent weighs about 3k pounds and makes decent low end torque with a decently long power band . Love ripping it frontside up the 9burg definitely need wheels & suspension to make it a better downhill car and more seat time to get better uphill
More vids like this please!!!!! Any video with pickle is goated. 😤😭
I touge a voloster n, it rips, save 8k form the ctr and put it into the car, put a front and rear sway bar in it, add rear chassie bracing and that tourqe vectoring from that electronic slip diff hits different. Will say the north America ones dont come with the big brake kit the Korean ones have but you can import or get the forge... oh babe... and with a toon you can make 310 with no bolt-ons its is slept on.
He is CHOMPING.
40:27 i have the presumption that they are mentioning revlox
Chill video but bro was smacking his lips on those chips the whole video lmao
Ik im late to the party, but for European standard, 3 series are such a great choice. Even dumbass e36. Its just so versatile. 1.6 and 1.8 have enough to be really decent downhill (you will need brakes, tires and preferably suspension done though) and can be easlly swapped to 2.6 or 2.8 which is capable of good uphill tempo. Same goes for e46.
Other badass picks for europebros would be Renault Megane and Clio, Audi A3, Ford Sierra and any Peugot with a turbo you can get your hands on. Real pocket rockets
In Germany, the e36 chassis is just like the civic in state, they are so fast in nurburgring. Just through a s50b32 (euro m3 engine) in it and tires and brakes and it just flys lol
I'm gonna be able to build a track weapon soon, that may or may not find its way to the odd Togue. I really can't decide what to get though. All I know is I want it to be light, 2 door, highly capable chassis, enormous aftermarket support, and something I won't cry over for the rest of my life if I bin it.
I'm thinking maybe an EG or EJ Civic, BG Familia, any 90's Celica, SR20 Primera or Pulsar, AE82/92 Corolla, or something along those lines.
Don't sleep on the AE111. Look for one of the models that came with a 4AGE black top. 165 hp from stock and handles like a dream.
@@dudocaine Yeah for sure, another great choice. My friend had one back in the day. Even completely stock it was a great driving car.
solid video boys watched all 51 minutes
Would have loved to see a focus st on that list
That thumbnail 😍😍😍
I really liked this video and its my first time watching....I didnt mind you guys eating during. I woukd like to know what you guys thinks of the AE86 overall how much more does an EJ1 civic weigh than the EG with a JDMB18B non VTEC. Its hard to get the actual weight since the car didnt come with that engine.
An integra goes for 15-20k here in the Netherlands… just seen an ad for a white type r stock 18,5K 200000miles…. I wish they were 7k
Buy a Prelude. Much cheaper and better cornering speed
@@endless_touge wich model?
Yes the 86 is overplayed I do agree as an 86 owner. But I'm glad they still got an A LOL
they really do handle really nice.
I have a grip 200sx S13 CA18det, and it is a killer touge car, here in europe. I'd put it in class S. It has power, (270hp) 1200kg, and 50/50 weight balance. King of touge
Where do you drive touge in Europe?
Touge Car Tier-list mukbang
I haven't finished the video yet but if the GR86 isn't S tier I'm gonna cry
10 years down the line gr86s (not gt86) will absolutely be S tier, fairly expensive right now with dealer markups plus very low production would probably put it in with the gt86
SORRY 🫣🫣
@@yz992 I joke, but yeah, it's definitely too expensive right now to be viable for most people, since an FRS is 1/3 the cost and only lacks power which you can add with a turbo/SC
They have a really good connection 13:04
fun fact the fa20(brz/86 engine) is more reliable than the ej’s (wrx engine) and because of the difference in how they are built are better for building for power.
13:04 the way you two said “yeah,so” at the same time was lowkey creepy
would the is300 make the list??
ya know, if i had money this video would be significantly more useful. stuck with an 06 altima but its got 4 wheels and gets me from point a to point b so not bad