The BIG Bore Cartridges
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: @red11media
Welcome to the RSO Podcast! In this episode, I read an article I wrote about an amazing pronghorn hunt I went on in Colorado.
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdo...
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Love you Mr Spomer. Don’t know exactly how old you are but in my opinion you are the grandpa everyone wants and needs.
Grandpa Ron thanks you!
@@RonSpomerOutdoors how about giving us airgunners some love. They go from .177 to .82 cal. Or 20mm
For a good viewing of those big doubles Kentucky Ballistics has a series of videos on them. Its quite impressive. He's a big fella, and then you watch him take the recoil in slow motion, and yikes I'm not so sure I'd be too eager to fire one.
There's a much smaller guy on RUclips who shoots homebrewed "12 Guage from hell" cartridges from a customized reamed and rifled single shot overbuilt 12g...shooting custom made thick walled high pressure 12G with an extra long case, throwing a solid copper slug.
It's on par with the 60 nitro express in weight and velocity... but this dude isn't a big guy at all. His journey is pretty awesome.
Those doubles are my favorites…
@@ravissary79 I'm checking this out immediately.
Did you see the one where his dad shot the .700 NE because Scott was still recovering from his injuries? Scott Sr. makes Scott Jr. look small. Funny thing was that Scott Sr. claimed that the biggest gun he'd ever fired before was a .30-30:
ruclips.net/video/8gIS2n-bY1w/видео.html
@@ravissary79 Yeah he uses annealed and fire formed 50 BMG cases, I couldn't remember if the rounds were brass or copper but I haven't seen any activity from him in quite a while is he OK.
Sounds like you need to take a trip to Kentucky and visit Scott, Ron. You'll need to take a lot of padding with you. Kentucky Ballistics has more than enough big bore tools to satisfy all your wishes.
I imagine a comedy sketch where Ron tries to give a dignified academic readout, and KB just keeps shooting random stuff right over (camera tricks, nobody in danger) his head. Eventually, Ron gets fed up and shows him how to really use those big guns and makes Kentucky apologize profusely.
@@Mortablunt Ron definitely needs to arrive at the LGS to gets some tools for a Tactical T-Rex hunt.
I was just thinking the same thing. Scott sure could satisfy that desire to shoot a 600 nitro or any of the other big bores that Scott has.
I used to have a William Evans Underlever Double Rifle chambered in 450/400 3 1/4 Nitro Express. It was made in 1898 for a minor member of the Royal Family and was fully engraved with the rose and scroll pattern. It was a great rifle and a lot of fun to shoot. In a fit of extreme stupidity I sold it. That is the one I'd like to have back!
Wrong Answer RPOC! You get a shipwreck comment for that error!
Lord I’d say…man that sounds like a beaut
That 300 gr bullet at 1800 fps is a rather anemic loading of the 45-70. There are plenty of loads that exceed 2000 fps and with hand loading that can be pushed to 2400 fps. That’s approaching 4000 ft/lbs of energy (~3850 ft lbs)
Its Odd early on no one really shot 300 grain on 45-70 now its the craze since lever-evolution came out.
The +1800fps rounds you know are all under 400grains factory ammo.
300 grain 315 grain . the hornady lever evolutions are all 315.-325 and they are faster.
The 400-415 grain rounds are basically hot loaded to do 1800-1850fps and they are already jackhammers on your shoulder but they are also good shooters at those fps.
The 1800-1850fps 410 grain rounds especially in a hard cast will go head to ass through a girzly they will kill a elepant.
@@phasechange5053 Yes, the hard cast bullets will not be stopped and have been used on elephant and Cape Buffalo and with great success. I really see no difference between the hard cast lead bullet and the non-expanding dangerous game bullets factory loaded for dangerous game in traditional rifles made for use in Africa. Check out Garrett Cartridge Company in Texas and their Hammer +P round. Garrett specializes in making ammunition for the .45-70 and .44 Rem Mag.
@@Mark-uq9km But oddly not for .444 Marlin. You'd think it would be an obvious fit for them.
@@jic1 Yes, you would think especially since the .444 Marlin is a souped up .44 Rem mag.
45/7 fans getting a reality check is great lmao.
Another good video. A number of years ago my wife and I were hoping to go to Africa to hunt a cape buff and a few smaller animals. While looking for a . 375 H&H mag I saw a . 460 Weatherby magnum. As my wife tells it I drooled over the .460 so much that the store told her that she had to buy it for me, so she looked at me and said "Merry Christmas", (she got another harp for Christmas that year. So she wasn't left out). Everybody told me that the rifle would knock me over when I pulled the trigger so I was a little disappointed when it didn't. I worked up a handload and practiced with the rifle until I could get the 2nd and 3rd shot off really fast. After 60 rounds I finally felt comfortable with my ability to hit what I was aiming at as well as getting off the followup shots. The only time I really felt pain in my shoulder was when I, like an idiot, decided to finish off a box of 20 rounds in one sitting. Now when I take it to the range I bring along some lighter rounds for kids to try the gun as well as some heavy rounds so their dad's can try it too. Dad's are required to pay for their shot as well as part of their kid's shot if dad and kid both shoot the gun, if only the kid shoot's it they get to shoot for free.
I love my .460 Weatherby Magnum. I have it in a Ruger #1, and a Weatherby MkV, only shoot them standing, so sticks or a slack line at the range to support my rifles. Lots of fun, and always makes the bench commandos with their AR's look twice. One thing about the big bores, the rifles are such fine quality, the fit and finish on them is always a cut above the rest. I think a NE is in my future, just need to keep an eye out for one.
Love my .460. I get the same weird looks from the others at the local municipal range, mine also seems to bring out the town's police chief.
@@gimpyRW I have a 460 Weatherby, i'm 72 , a big boy. Loved the Ma Deuce in the Army. I don't know about shooting this 460 , afraid i might detach a retina. Think i will put it in a sled and touch one off. I live on a farm , and everyone within a mile or two knows it's just Crazy Carl having a little fun. Another farm boy about 1.5 miles away touched off 10 pounds of tannerite several years ago. Nobody said peep squat. Guess we have them used to the boom. Have fun.
Had a 460 Wby in a Ruger No. 1. The barrel needed to be ported. Two Mercury recoil reducers installed in the stock and a Limb Saver air Tech recoil pad. It might be shootable.
I love my 45-70. I shoot 360gr cast bullets with a gas check at 2000fps. I also mix in linotype. I've made some quartering shots on game and had complete passthrough of 36" plus. I've never had an animal take a step. It's strictly a close quarters gun, and usually in heavy cover. But, it works for large hogs, black bears, and and a very mean feral bull that was holed up in thick brush in South Texas.
Thanks Ron
Cheers
Rob
I like the Taylor Knockout Value to provide a realistic capability number on cartridge bullet effect on wild game. The diameter of the bullet plays a part in the effectiveness of the bullet.
Yep.
I've guided the northern Rockies for decades. There are two common causes for misses or wounded game. Recoil/flinch. I've seen far more one shot kills with the 30-06 family of cartridges than I have with any of the big magnums. The second reason is people think because they have a cartridge with long range energy to take Elk, they take shots at ranges far beyond their abilities as a rifleman e
Misses at long range are mostly shooting low beyond 350 yards because they don't understand how quickly bullet drop accelerates at long range. When new hunters arrive at the ranch we take them out to the range to "check" zero. We have targets at random ranges out to 600 yards. We do it to get an idea how well the shooter performs before we ride out to camp. Before we leave the ranch we chrono their loads and I have a small card in my pocket for each hunter that tells me ballistic data and shooting ability and I do everything I can to make the shooter hunt well inside their effective range
i chuckled when you mentioned 416 rigby. for no reason whatsoever :D
Down here in Aussie land, my biggest cartridge is a 700 HBH.... 1000 grain Hollowpoints @ 2000 fps out of the 13.5 inch barrel...
The .460 Weatherby used to be loaded almost 100 FPS faster and produced over 8000 pounds of energy in it's original form. But few could handle the recoil and the rumor was, as you stated, that the bullets just couldn't take the speed so it was "tamed" a bit. There are plenty of .45-70 factory loading that push energy over 3500 foot pounds and higher in modern rifles such as the Marlin 1895's and Henry Big Boy's. It's long been proven though that pretty much any .40 and up delivering 4000 plus foot pounds of energy is perfectly acceptable for any and all African game. And it's long been proven that if you know what you're doing you don't even need that much but I'd rather have a little margin for error myself. My choice would be a .416 Rigby for the nostalgia but a .416 Ruger or Remington would be just fine as well. Above that probably a .470 Nitro, again, for the nostalgia or a .458 Lott for the practicality. Or, you know, if I could get a deal on a fine .500 Nitro double rifle I wouldn't say no.
Lmao😆
Agreed! I am planning on going to SA for a plains game Safari and am leaning towards a Winchester Model 70 in 416 rem mag just in case a buff shows up!
@@dangoldbach6570 don’t listen to this fool his number are all wrong!
@@dangoldbach6570 8000 ftbs of energy in a 460 Weatherby? I hope he has sought help since.
@Ron-Swanson yeah that's a whole lot of kick for sure! Maybe if a buff was wearing Kevlar 😂
Ready to build my 505 gibbs. I currently own a 416 rigby. A 375 H&H soon to be rechambered to RUM
I own an 18 inch single shot 50 bmg rifle.
All in I think the rifle weighs something like 9lbs or so. The muzzle break is so damn good. and im not BS. The recoil is little more than a 30-30.
shooting 660 grain ammo.
Thank you Ron for another very interesting cartridge review. I had two business partners, one a modern magnum cartridge guy and the other black powder, large bore shooter. The magnum partner had a Remington rifle in 458 WM and the black powder partner had a Siamese Mauser in 45-70 with hand loads. To see them shoot them side by side at the bench was entertaining. I am sure they both had concussions by the end of the day, but neither would admit it. I decided to stick with my 7mmRM and 300WM.
A heavy Sharps in 45-70 to .50-90 etc. are not as difficult for me as a light Mountain rifle I had in 30-06 which slapped the crap out of you if you didn't know what you were doing. And the .458 mag can be down loaded. I shoot a .405 in an 1895 and it's no more recoil than a good 270 or 30-06 in a light weight gun.
Glad you use energy in your comparisons. For decades all the big bore enthusiasts scoffed at energy. I grew up reading sporting magazines in the 60’s and the pendulum was all in the energy camp. Struggling to make some sense of the debate, I rationalized that 1,000 ft pounds of energy at .44 or .45 worked, in part, because you started out with a bullet with twice the diameter (4 times the cross sectional area). A sizable percentage of that 4,000 ft per second .22 caliber projectile’s energy went toward expanding the bullet to match the cross section of the larger bullet.
The reason for the scoffing is because it is irrelevant in so many cases. You are not killing by "energy transfer". You are killing by penetrating to vital tissues and destroying them by cutting, crushing, and tearing. At very high speeds the velocity contributes to a destructive pressure wave but the effectiveness of that depends on retaining that velocity as well as having a bullet closely matched to the striking velocity and the resistance of the medium hit not to mention the size of the critter. A small bore ultra-velocity hollow point is impressive on a groundhog or a watermelon but not so much on a hippo.
It is like trying to rate amplifiers by THD. It isn't even close to a reasonable figure of merit.
It'd be awesome to see him do a video on the 405 Winchester
My uncle was working on a 572 ross back before old man barnes packed up his shop . It was based on the 600 nitro and would have been the premier sniper weapon . But was about 5 years ahead of the bullet and powder tech .right in that time gunny Hathcock took the sear off a ma deuce and that became history .
Love it! I've recently fallen in love with big bores! More please!
I find it absolutely wild that large bore shoulder fired guns like the 20mm Lahti or other similar 20mm to 25mm anti-tank cartridges put out anywhere from 30,000 to 50,000 Ft-lbs of muzzle energy, it's hard to wrap your head around. Imagine taking large game with a 20mm hollowpoint, the things are usually doing 3000-3500 fps lol.
The 375 H & H is a wonderful rifle and about the same kick as the 300 Wby. For the big stuff in Africa I like the 416 Rigby , I have one of Selby's that I bought at a auction in Kenya about 50 years ago. I have an 458 Winchester African express that I love as well for Buff.
Use enough gun to quote Ruark - great show. Only a brain shot will stop a charging cape Buffalo.
Almost picked up a beautiful mauser in 458 win mag with a curly maple stock last Friday for only $600 and I'm kicking myself for not buying it. To be fair, I'm not hunting houses or other small buildings, so it would be overkill for everything else.
If you handload, the .458 Mag is very versatile, I have even loaded some very light round ball loads and have used it for small game, literally can be used on anything from rabbits, to elephants.
Great video, Mr. Spomer, I really appreciated this one!
My 1950 Winchester Model 52B .22 cal. Rifle with an Olympic Stock weighs 14.5 lbs! It has a 28" long 8.75 (7/8") Bull Barrel and is so steady in all 3 NRA Competition positions (Standing, Kneeling and Prone) that at 10 meters she hits' the pupil sized bull every time. The weight absorbs all my body movements/tremors and keeps the rifle steady and right on target. Of course there is absolutely no felt recoil at all. - Peter age 72
Hi Ron, you say that people don't go hunting with 50 BMGs. Keith Warren (whom you probably know), his son does and he once produced a video of a Kudu hunt with a 50cal. A very unimpressive scenario then played out. It showed that 50 BMGs are not the weapon for hunting and a few other things too.
Thank you the post on the big bores. I don't know if anyone else has this experience, but at the rifle range, after having shot anywhere from 25-40 rounds of .30-06 and even .308 with recoil that can't compare to the big bores, I get punch drunk. I have to wait about 15 minutes after shooting to 'sober up' because I don't think I'm safe to drive. I'm a big guy and I actually don't mind recoil. But it does have an effect on me. I am not one of the guys that takes 10 minutes between each shot, so I'm getting in more shots in an hour and a half than some other more fussy marksmen.
Might be the muzzle blast effecting you physiologically.
Had my bell rung by my .450 bushmaster, a Roger carbine bolt action with the ridiculous muzzle brake. Shooting from a box blind, muzzle out the window, that brake directed the blast back in with me... my mouth was open when I fired, my tongue was tingling and my vision was blurry for quite a while, coyote had a fist size hole through its chest. When I got back to the house, I promptly removed the muzzle brake, no more issues after that.
I once watched a young woman sneak around to where she was almost even with the muzzle of a .25-06, and this was before muzzle brakes became popular. The shooter (her boyfriend) warned her not to get too close, so she backed off a few steps (and I must say it was a formal range, but with NO officers or range officials of any type) and he touched off 1 round. She yelped a bit and left the range, bleeding mildly from the nose. Her sympathetic boyfriend tsk tsk'ed and said, "Well, I did warn her"...
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
My favorites are still and always will be are the 375 H&H and the 444. Are all I need and want to use.
444 marlin rocks!
Not bad choices at all. It would make it a little daunting if you needed to hunt some squirrels, however.
@@Mark-uq9km 🤣 great one about the squirrels
@@missey316 Thanks. I used to hunt squirrels as a kid but don't need or want to anymore. I do have a .375 H&H in Browning X-Bolt but don't have a .444 Marlin and wish I did. In 1964 when it was first produced it was quite an innovative weapon. But, it was plagued by the unimaginative Remington factory loads. It became more popular when Hornady introduced their Leverevolutions several years ago plus their round nose 265 grain bullet with Superformance ballistics. It is a really good snot shocker for anything in North America.
I found your channel because of a videogame, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, and I was wondering if a calibre 416 was real. I learned something new today! I got my basic gun handling class a year ago and I really want to get into hunting, but firearms in Canada are really expensive and so regulated that I'm afraid if I buy a gun today it may become illegal and get confiscated tomorrow. Keep up this informative channel Ron!
I love it when 45/70 fanatics get a dose of reality. Lmao
Me too!! 😊👍
I recently bought my first rifle, It was hard to choose a caliber, but I decided for the old 30-06, and every piece of information I get to, says that was a good choice to start with
The 30-06 is hard to beat when it comes to versatility. If you do your part that cartridge will do it's part.
My late father used to say..
If you can't kill it with an aught six.. you shouldn't be hunting it!
He only carried one rifle my whole life. It was a Winchester model 70 chambered in the 30-06 Springfield.
So.. when I purchased my first center fire.. it too was an aught six.
What I liked about it.. you could use it for just about anything in North America. Ammo was always available during non pandemic times.
What I didn't enjoy was unnecessary recoil for deer hunting. Don't get me wrong.. I usually didn't mind shooting mine twenty times at the range.. but there's better choices for deer hunting.
All this being said.. great purchase!
Also.. as with most hunters.. you'll love it so much.. that'll end up with a second firearm then a third ECT. My second firearm was a 7mm-08 Remington. Which is my favorite whitetail cartridge.
God bless.. and shoot straight!
Mr Ron knows how to stir the pot with the best of them
the 416 Barrett is cool as hell though I will say I have shot the cheytac and the 416 Barrett I will say the Barrett is a laser but it's hard top beat the Cheytac and the way it doesn't destabilize through the transonic barrier
Most of new owners of rifles here in forest part of Russia choose .308 and 9,3x62 cartridges.
I was thinking that I am crazy because I bought .300WM and .375H&H as my first barrels.
Till I have become know that my friend's first rifles are .338-378 Weatherby and .460 Weatherby (in the forest region).
I remember many years ago, at a range in California that is no longer there, there was a big dude in typical farmer boy clothes. Beard, overalls, kind of scruffy looking, and he was talking it up about his new toy. A .460 Weatherby that he got from a neighbor when he passed on. It was a beautiful gun, no doubt about that. Looked like it was rarely, if ever, shot in fact. The range went hot and we settled down to shoot, and there was a small audience of people watching him touch off a round or two. He settled down, took careful aim, and there was this huge BOOM. Without blinking an eye, he got up in a few seconds and asked, "Anybody else want to try a shot?" I was giggling to myself, thinking he had done it the hard way. Standing up would have been a lot easier on his body than hunched over on a shooting bench. But an ego is a terrible thing to waste, and he had his moment of glory. I'll stick to my .356. In a light lever-action, that gives me all the pain I want, thank you very much.
Grew up reading Elmer Keth and Jack O'Connor, Big bore versus the 270 Win, Few people remember Jack went to Africa and used BIG bores
🤠 Only because he had to! 😂
Hell, Elmer was there. ... I sorely miss that man. ... The needle shooter - not nearly as much.
@@ronlowney4700 And I believe he continued to use .270 Win and 7x57 against plains game.
⏰ Time proved Jack right and Keith wrong! 😁 But, would he have been like Bell and tried to kill everything with his 270 Winchester? 🤔 If Bell could kill elephants with a 7×57, then Jack could certainly have killed everything with a 270 Winchester! 😂 But, that sends those Liberals (hunters suffering from little man's disease) into panic mode! 🤭
🤪 Most people that have to rely on a Big Magnum (Manglums) to kill small to medium sized game are crappy shots - and the rest are Stupid! 😂
Another great video Ron! I have a double barrel 10 gauge side by side that I take for Canada goose. Both barrels are full-choke. I take it as a stand-by gun to use in case the geese are flying higher than my 36 inch full choke12 gauge 3 inch magnum can reach. The 12 gauge is a Remington 1100 which mitigates the recoil a good bit, but the 10 gauge weighs 12.75 lbs and kicks hard but is controllable. I do NOT shoot the 10 gauge higher than about 45 degrees elevation as it will drive my shoulder into my sternum. I learned that the hard way!
I'm not sure you are a glutton for punishment, but you're one tough customer!
I'm with John below,Scott from Kentucky ballistics has a 470,500,600,700 nitro as well as 375 h&h,416 Rigby,460 weatherby mag,458 Lott and a 500 Jeffrey,the man doesn't hunt but he does some incredible exhibitions with them,don't miss the bowling ball episode 😂
My "big rifle" is a 338 Lapua shooting 300gr bullets. At 2800 fps, it produces 5220 ft/lbs of energy which out-penetrates almost everything else. Compares really well with the "big bores", but not always legal in all African countries. IME, once recoil goes over 75-80 ft/lbs, most people start to really feel it (& start to flinch), and the bigger you are, the more it hurts...there are a lot of records of men from the late 1800's - early 1900's shooting 4,6,8 bore rifles & developing a permanent flinch.
I'd be curious to see the recoil difference compared to the 458 Lott.
Great video there is something romantic about some old school cool big bore. Sitting on the African savanna with your .458 lott wearing your safari vest and pith helmet drinking tea and taking your shot at a cape buffalo. I always tell folks if I can only have one its a 30-06 call me old fashioned but its hard not to feel the history holding that cartridge in your hand. Hell vidoes like this are the reason i collect cartridges though I need to get some of those big bores I don't have any of them with the exception of 44-40, 45-70, 45-90 and 50-100 ad of course moderns like the 450 bushmaster and 50 BMG.
Excellent as always sir
Fascinating discussion indeed !!
I’ve always wanted to fire a 458 win mag or 460 weatherby
Shoot the 458 - skip the 460
Hell Yeah another awesome video! Greetings from Australia mate!
I think this was the first time I have seen Ron Spomer not have every cartridge he mentioned on the show. His collection is amazingly vast. I wonder which collector or museum will get his cartridges when he passes. Thanks, Ron
I’ve been able to shoot the 577 in a double barreled rifle. The recoil wasn’t as terrible as I expected. Having said that, it looked like a howitzer had hit the backstop at 200 yards.
I shoot hogs with a 450/400 double; just for nostalgia! Plus I love Jim Corbett stories. Are there better bullets and cheaper cartridges for this task? Absolutely! But you can't beat a fine double in medium to big bore.
Keep in mind, modern 45-70 smokeless loads can clear 3600f-p of energy in Buffalo Bore and Underwood loads.
The underwood ammo can produce over 3.5k ft-lbs if I remember right. That’s mad stuff.
And why would u put any modern smoke less 45 70 in a trap door? Ever?
@@dualsportrider3221 Because you're not really a shooter, you found an old trapdoor at the back of grandpa's closet, and you don't know any better?
Never mind that, I had a boss said he shot modern loads in a trap door for 30+ years. He's pushing luck big time
@@dualsportrider3221 I would have assumed he'd have wrecked the gun after a handful of 'modern rifle' loads, if not the first one. Maybe by "modern loads" he simply meant the light smokeless loads Ron was talking about? You could maybe get away with that.
Thank you Professor. I concur . Accuracy above all. Even when, maybe especially when, split seconds count.
As a moderately experienced hunter, better to be a little undergun but overpractice than overgun but underpractice. Bring the gun you can use properly.
Was waiting for the description of the examples shown aside from a few cherry picked , would've been nice to list them left to right or vv
I’ve always wanted to shoot a 458 Win or 458 Lott just to say I did it.
Thanks again for more quality content videos Ron. 😎👍
I was lucky enough to have a friend in high school, who's dad had a lot of guns and we would get together sometimes and shoot the guns. Including a 375 H&H and a 458 Win Mag, both were in Winchester Pre '64 rifles(his dad was actually planning a hunt to Africa, but sadly passed away). I'm guessing both were around 10 lbs or so and I was a bit nervous shooting the 458 after just shooting the 375 about 5 times. But actually, even though it did KICK with a bit more muzzle rise and me taking a 1/2 step back on my right foot.....it really wasn't that un-bearable!! We took turns shooting it, about 5 rounds each. LOVED IT and have never had the chance to shoot neither a 375 H&H nor a 458 Win Mag since. We tore a 4ft Oak stump to hell, LOL. Jesus, that was around 40 years ago... GREAT memories that last a life time!!!
Great video Ron enjoyed it.
Hi Ron
I really want you to do a video answering the question “Does the 7mm rem mag shoot strait through a elk”?
Depends on the bullet and the angle at which it is applied. I've had some 160-gr. Nosler Accubonds should through on broadside chest shots, others penetrate to the offside hide. Barnes TSX, TTSX and LRX plus Hammer Hunter all copper bullets are likely to pass through. Not sure how far they'd go with a Texas heart shot. I once put a 165-gr. TTSX from a 300 Win Mag. between the hams of a common waterbuck facing straight away at about 100 yards. Bullet made it to the lungs. Body weight about 550 pounds. I imagine a 160-gr. from 7mm RM would do about the same.
My first "big bore" was 45/70 out of a original Trapdoor Springfield, in my early teens. My first center fire was a M16a1 as a really youngster. Courtesy of the Army N.G. then later many hundreds if not thousands,a old classic 50 BMG with regular Army. I had wanted a TC Encore in 300 WM since I was young... many years passed before I did. In the past 20 plus years of ownership it's been fired maybe 40 times. I got a 30-06 barrel for it, the 300 WM has a muzzle brake added.
I made the not so practical purchase of a magnum resarch bfr in 450 marlin. It pushed me Into reloading due to the availability of 450 marlin. it's completely impractical for my purposes but it's a lot of fun.
But I'm pretty sure it's good for any game animal under 100 yards in the states.
Another great video Ron👍 I've just joined as a patreon today too👍
Ron Spomer- "some use these for African big game, and then there is some ....." As Kentucky ballistics shoots watermelons with the 700 nitro and blows up 50 bmgs lol. Great video Mr. Spomer
Thanks for covering the big boys Ron. Your dead on about the 45-70 being a little weak in factory cartridges. My handloads get an honest 2K out of my Marlin guide gun with 300 grain bullets. 405 grain lead is only to about 1500 fps. But they can punch lengthwise through any deer I've ever shot. If I ever get to go bear hunting that's going to be the load I use. Any faster and the accuracy suffers and so does my shoulder. But I take deer with the lighter 300 grainers every year and they kill like the hand of God.
I love it when 45/70 fans get a dose of reality lol.
@Peter Angles everything is the hand of god to a white tail. Your right If it’s white tail at close distance she will do the job no doubts there.
Hand loading the 458 Win with 450-480 grain bullets will come real close to the 458 Lott with 500 grainers, with a little less recoil and a shorter action to get off your second shot. Less chance for short stroking and jamming.
Love the video and big bores! I had a Ruger number one that was chambered in 585 nyati. It was brutal, pushing 1200 grain lead bullets at 1500 fps. 223 ft lbs of recoil, it almost made you feel like you were blacking out for a instant when you shot it
That sounds really dumb. So, why do I want to try it? You are the man!
My experience was a bolt action rifle weighing 14 lbs, and a reduced cast bullet load - I hit the drum at 60 yards shooting offhand.
I believe that qualifys as artillery, the over kill that gun does could be the shooter 😉
I shot a big .50. it was a heavy one. You are right, it's not too bad. Seems like it pushed more than kick.
Same here. It was a single feed bolt gun that weighed #32. I was shocked by how light the recoil was. I shot way low left because I thew my shoulder into it as I lit it off. I had previously had the opportunity to fire a .50 BMG machine gun while in the Marines. That is a fun thumper too.
Another triumph of a video - I've watched many of your videos at this point, and haven't seen a clunker yet! They are all packed with easily-understood, interesting, and practical information, for which I - and I'm sure many others - thank you.
As for large-diameter (.40"+) hunting rounds, after looking at your charts - particularly at the more pedestrian calibers - it occurred to me that rifle videos very rarely venture into shotgun territory, and vice versa. Yet shotguns - 20 or 12 gauge, let alone .410, (which is considered a pipsqueak in the shotgun community - yet is, caliber-wise, squarely in the midst of the bullet diameters you discuss here) - are significantly bigger-bore than even the .600 Nitro Exprress, at .615 and .729 calibers, respectively.
Now - no one argues that the low-pressure, low velocity slugs are a match for high velocity bullets in terms of energy, nor that the typical lead foster slug is likely to penetrate like a jacketed hunting bullet; but they a) do weigh 273 grains (5/8 oz.) and 492 grains (1 1/8 oz), respectively, b) can be loaded to higher velocity (Remington has a 3" slug with an 1,800 f/s muzzle velocity), and c) while they have the ballistic coefficient of a brick, for short-range (a few tens of yards) African game-style hunting, the trajectory seems irrelevant.
And Foster slugs are not the only projectiles they fire - Brenneke, for example provides what is effectively a 3,800 ft-lb muzzle energy wad cutter configuration, and there are saboted rounds that do conform more nearly to conventional bullet profiles. For a handloader, with a strongly-built gun, and using perhaps even brass shells, it would seem that they are very close to a "poor man's double rifle" in a side-by-side or over/under, and pump guns are faster in follow-up shots than bolt action rifles. It struck me as being food for thought.
I'm not, of course, suggesting rhino or buffalo hunting with a shotgun - even if it were legal - regardless of even the most extreme reload potential of such weapons. I'm just curious as to your observations of their knockdown, penetration, handling, etc. qualities when compared with rifles - double or otherwise - as brush guns, based on their ballistics specifications and practical ability to down game. Or whether you've had any applicable or relevant experience doing so, etc.
I guess if Bell could take down elephants with a 7mm it isn't such a stretch to think outside the box a little, even if taking on large and dangerous game with a Mossberg 590 goes right to the top of the NO! list.
Putting together a custom .40+ caliber rifle is one of the more unique things in hunting. A good gunsmith who can make one feed reliably can be a rarity, but when it comes together it’s pretty darn cool! Personally love my 404 Jeffery!
It sounds crazy but everything I’ve shot with a 45/70, 405gr bullet, 1250fps, has died where it stood. It is truly different for some reason. It puts a wallop on them!
There are several ammo manufacturers that sell 4570 In 405 and larger grain bullets that have at least 2000 FPS muzzle velocity. Academy sells Hornady 4570 in 325 grain bullet grain with a muzzle velocity of 2000 FPS for $49.95 for 20 which is about the lowest price I've seen.
@@ronnieskaggs8148 I load ALL my own ammo. I have some 525 and 535 grain bullets to load. I’ve shot a few already but wasn’t pleased using AA5744. At the lower velocity they left unturned powder in the bore. I’m thinking of trying a magnum primer as the velocity I was getting was what I wanted. I like to shoot and have fun doing it. Those high velocity loads aren’t fun for me. I’ve never found a need for it. I can easily shoot out to 200 yards. I’ve learned how to shoot them. I have a vernier sight to put on my Remington rolling block to stretch it out farther. Search for “The 45/70 at Two Miles”. I think you will be amazed at what the old standard load will do.
I have seen videos where the penatration was the deepest with the 405 grain bullets even better than 500 grain due to the even slower velocity of the 500 grain 4570 ammo. Hope your shoulder is OK 😉
@@tlloyd9325 I have read where bison were taken at 700 yards with the original 4570 405 grain loads at around 1350 FPS muzzle velocity back in the late 1800 hundreds.
Hi Ron good job :-) I found a packet of 600nitro express, and it said you have to be 6feet tall weight 120kg as may cause nose and ear bleeding and concussion if used more than 5 round in 24hrs so i gave them away
I like the history you give us, and specs. not just your opinion.
Loaded A 45-70 in a Ruger number one single shot right behind the 458 Winchester magnum. Rock and Roll.
The more I look at this chart the more I want the 50 BMG
I see big bullets and I think of this quote
“Nothing to worry about sir gonna be a walk in the park.” (Jurassic Park 3)
I held a .600 N.E. at a Gun Show. It's stock & forearm were made of Marble. It weighed 22lbs.
They wanted only $60,000 for it!
I was hoping for a video on stuff bigger than 40 bore and here this video pops up.
The .577 Tyrannosaur was supposed to be a stopping rifle for charging elephants. It developed 10,180 ft-lbs at the muzzle and in the neighborhood of 170# felt recoil in a 12# rifle. Not sure who could really fire it fast enough to make a difference.
Well you would need to still be on your feet and overcome the temporary paralysis of your dominant side limb to be effective with your second shot, the old video still makes me chuckle.
where would you place the 9.3x62 Mauser as a big game caliber?, i personally love this round
The 416 isn’t a bad hunting round I have some buddies that used them in Colorado
A episode about Col Charlie Askins and some of his guns would be good, he had a very versatile experienced hunting tours worldwide.
Great video Ron!
I have some .416 Barrett brass it’s definitely impressive
If 50 BMG is too small, there are 12,7x108 DShK , 14,5 KPVT and 23 mmZPU AA gun .
I've had a couple of experiences with big boomers - a 460 Weatherby Magnum, and a 585 Nyati : The Weatherby using factory ammo, and the Nyati a reduced cast bullet load. Full ballistics of the Nyati had it developing over 10 000 ft/lbs energy, full power loads weren't on hand that day which was probably a good thing ...
Don't forget the .475 Atkinson & Marquart a 500 or 600 grain bullet churning up over 10,000 foot/pounds of energy. The .475 A&M was based on the necked down .50-bmg.
@@kittty2005 The 416 Barrett is a shortened, necked down 50 BMG case as well , isn't it ? But it's application is military though ..
@@paulreid2223 I've seen sabot rounds of the 50 bmg using 338 x 300 grain bullets at 4500 fps, my favorite military round was the .458 x 1.5 it was sub-velocity sniper cartridge, 500 grain ball ammo with an inch and a half case. Was used in , I can't remember Korea or Vietnam, standard 2 man team a shooter and a spotter, 700 to 1500 meter shots, rounds were quite accurate and bucked the wind nicely and were as silent as a .22 short, like a kid pitching stones. Usually got off 2 shots before any one noticed and trajectory was a rainbow for sure, but these men knew their tools like any other team.
@@kittty2005 Was that round given the designation of 458 SOCOM ?? I can remember reading about it in Cartridges of the World ... Also ,the DeLisle carbine of WWII using the 45 ACP round for close in sniper work in the jungle against the Japanese ...
@@paulreid2223 I'm only 69 but have read of the DeLisle. I think it may have been in cartridges of the world where I first read of the 458x1 1/2 but there was a large article in a gun magazine it wasn't Guns & Ammo I keep thinking it was Outdoor Life, at any rate the 500 grain bullet was almost as long as the case, no the SOCOM was a later development, but a 600 grain loading in the SOCOM? 1000 fps or not it had to kick like a mule with no muzzle break, I like guns that kick, but for long range work comfort is key.
I have an m 82a1 no hunting going on here. My Ruger 77 in 458 win yes but no cash to get to Africa. Go figure. Great show Ron.
Hey 10mm is .40cal.... I've seen Keith Warren drop a whitetail buck with one shot from a 10 mm Glock that's pretty damn impressive for a semi-automatic pistol cartridge
Yes, the 10mm handgun can do such things. I've used it on aoudad and good sized feral hogs. But even smaller cartridges/bullets can drop deer in their tracks if applied to the right place. I'm sure Mr. Warren applied his 10mm bullet to the right place. That's always the smartest move!
one thing to note is the use of a muzzle brake (which tends to work "more" with higher velocity cartridges like the .416 barret and .50 bmg) a .416 Barrett with a well designed brake is softer shooting than many of the "less powerful" rifles.
still not what I'd call a pussycat by any means, but definitely manageable, having been able to fire a "braked" .416 barret I'd compare it to an "unbraked" .300wm (granted the rifles weigh different amounts, with the barret being close to double the weight of the win mag)
Hi Ron In one of your videos you mention that BOLT ACTION WAS INVENTED IN USA. Well, I hope I'm correct when I say that bolt action was patended in Norway in 1887. And as far as I have checked I couldn't find any other country that tried to patende it before 1887 or after.
In 1893, the 6.5 × 55 mm cartridge was standardized by the Norwegian-Swedish Rifle Commission, and soon after was introduced as a standard cartridge in the Norwegian and Swedish defenses. This was one of several Norwegian-Swedish defense commissions regarding the army's handguns, among others. The starting point for the commission in 1893 was that they wanted a caliber smaller than 10.15 mm that had been used before. This is to provide a better and flatter trajectory, and for the soldiers to be able to carry more ammunition.
In the period just before the turn of the century, many countries adopted relatively finely calibrated repeater rifles with weapons magazines. The calibers chosen elsewhere in Europe ranged from 7.5 mm to 8 mm. The testing in Norway started with the caliber, where it turned out that 6.5 mm bore diameter gave the best results, then they looked at the sleeve and sleeve length, and then ended up with a 55 mm long sleeve. The projectile that was used to begin with was called the B projectile, and was a 10.1 gram bullet with a round tip. Other countries switched to sharper and lighter bullets to provide flatter bullet trajectories and higher exit velocities, and in 1925 a 9 gram pointed bullet, the so-called D projectile, was approved by the defense. Although similar bullets are used for competitive shooting even today, there have been a wealth of other bullets to provide better precision, higher exit velocity and flatter bullet trajectory.
In 1984, CIP standardized the cartridge independently under the name "6.5 × 55 SE", and revised the standard in 2002 and 2007.
SE is Scandinavian Edition.
In 1990, the Scandinavian shooting organizations standardized the chamber ring as a 6.5 × 55 SKAN », which in relation to the original 1893 standard has stricter tolerances, has higher maximum pressure and slightly longer free flight in the chamber.
In 1993, SAAMI independently standardized the cartridge under the name "6.5 × 55mm Swedish", with the official SAAMI abbreviation "6.5 × 55".
I stopped at the 375HH. IT WAS EXTREMELY ACCURATE. I MANAGED THE RECOIL VERY WELL.
Heck yes
30-06 has taken everything in north America with a well placed shot
Level 3 .45-70 using 3031 rifle powder and 500 grain jacketed bullets or 550 grain hard cast lead bullets will crowd the lower end of the .458 Magnum spectrum. Use only in modern falling block or rebarreled Siamese Mauser (will feed rimmed cartridges). These loads will spring and warp Winchester and Marlin lever actions (use level 2 loads) and turn trapdoor Springfields into a pipe bomb (use level 1 or factory cartridges).
I am thinking about .45-70 improved. Not much gain in performance but peace of mind knowing it would be impossible to chamber in wrong action strength rifles.
I deliberately kept this vague to keep RUclips censors from having a hoplophobic reaction and (urinating) all over the floor.
If I can ever afford Alaska big 3 (moose, bison, and Kodiak bear, this is what I would use in a single shot rifle.
In the Ruger #1 or Siamese Mauser a maximum load 4064 will propel a 400 grain jacketed bullet to 2200 fps with resulting 4298 ft lbs muzzle energy. As you say, don’t get these loads anywhere around your Marlins, Henrys or any other lever guns. In a trap door it’s called an IED. In my Siamese Mauser I like the medium range 300 grain JHP. Not to punishing to shoot. For safety I don’t own any 45-70 lever guns. I do have a rolling block I used to shoot black powder cartridge silhouette with. I only used black powder behind the 400 grain cast lead wheel weight or other alloy. Also used different brand cases for the rolling block vs the Mauser. Never any jacketed bullets in the rolling block. I do keep a few of the 400 grain hot loads around for the Mauser just in case the dinosaurs come back.
Yes! The big bores! Love this video! Doesn’t get much better than big bores, Black Death, & the dark continent! 😉
Flinching might develop into PTSD if you go too big.
Hey Ron I got rid of my 300 WinMag because it did kick like a angry mule. It wasn’t fun to shoot so I rehomed it and got a 308 Winchester.
Of note is that the 450 Bushmaster is the most powerful cartridge available in the AR-15 platform. The 500 AutoMax is the most powerful in the AR-10/LR308 platform.
458 SOCOM is also available in an AR15 platform. No real performance difference between .452 Bushmaster and .458 SOCOM
@@smokedbrisket3033 450 Bushmaster has a slight edge on 458 SOCOM. What the SOCOM is loaded for though is heave subsonic rounds, like 600gr. 450 being a straightwall could easily be loaded for such a bullet, you would just seat it much deeper (which on a straightwall is very easy to do without an ill effects) and run an appropriate powder load.
Hey Ron how are they headspacing the .450 bushmaster? Love to hear a discussion on that sometime!
I had a Shiloh Sharps 1873 model .50-140 custom made for smokeless, used a Powley Computer to work up loads (a slide rule calculator) ,I had a nice deer and black bear load. 450 grain flat nose with 120 grains of smokeless, not telling what type or brand of powder, for everything else same charge weight of powder slower, and a 600 gain spitzer, but for varmints, ground squirrels and such a 300 grain flat nose and the same charge weight faster powder. I 'd get 2750 fps with the 450, 2350 with the 600 and 3250 with the 300. The gun weighed 12.5 pounds and had a Pachmayr magnum recoil pad and a small firing pin breech block and a no.1 heavy barrel , the receiver and block were 4130C color casehardened steel. All loads averaged 8700 foot/pounds at the muzzle, the 600 grain would group 2 minutes of angle out to 300 yards and hit with as much power as the 300 Weatherby magnum at the muzzle. And recoil was a pleasant 130 pounds. I was 6'8 and weighed 365 and carried that gun for miles. I loved that gun but a whole bunch of stuff came up and I had to get rid of everything so as to move into my new apartment.
Anzio chuckles at these mouse rounds.
I like 375 h&h mag but my shoulder says - ARE YOU NUTS !!!
In small bore high velocity cartridges energy figures can be of some use but in the big bores you have to think in completely different terms. Using a 300 grain bullet in the 45-70 handicaps you. You may get higher energy numbers but if you really want to knock down a charging Grizzly get a 500 grain hardcast flat nose in that thing. A big, heavy, sturdy bullet doesn't need a lot of velocity or energy to penetrate tough grissle, break thick bones, and tear up organs.
If you like spreadsheets for analyzing these things put in a column in for Taylor knockout and forget energy in the big boys. Even then bullet construction and form can make or break it.
Great video. How do these big bores compare to a 12 gauge rifled slug when it comes to taking large animals at close range? (In my Remington 870 slugs are pretty punishing to shoot.)
That 7mm Mauser was no joke. It was a surgical instrument amongst hammers.
During ww2 the British used boys antitank rifle . This was larger than the 50bmg and yet it didn’t have a muzzle brake ! A sand bag was placed on the shoulder and that was it. It never stopped a tank and was later used to kill rogue elephants .
I got to handle a 700 nitrogen express many years ago Backwood never still feels really really good old fashioned gun shops in Southern California. It was a $100000 rifle and they showed a video of the gun collector firing at, he was an Asian guy about your size Ron S. And that thing recoiled like An artillery piece. The word was the individuals that regulated the barrels were able to go hunting with it and put around through a kit Buffalo's butt and the exit wound was in the shoulder forward near the neck
Great information on the truth 👍