In my opinion this is the best video on RUclips on the serve. No offense to the other great coaches out there but this observation by Tom here has helped me more than any other serve tip I’ve ever heard. Throwing to me makes sense growing up w baseball as my first sport - a serve thought of “throwing at a 45 deg angle” is unbelievably helpful to me - don’t have to build my serve from “scratch”.
Your remarks concerning the racquet drop happening as the shoulder rotates, in your previous vid with Jeff, really helped me a lot. This one’s icing on the cake. Cheers, Tom, from rainy North Wales.
Nice specific tips and great practical demo both you and Jeff. If I can only recover my easy and consistent tossing ... am right up there. After long time recovering from knee injuries (patella syndrome) my brain refuses to do anything related knee bending :( ... This serve style helps to progress.
yooooooooo!!!!!!!!! We got Jeff and Tom together. I love it! Sharing and explaining things together. You guys should do a series with eachother. Fantastic!!!!!
I think @4:32 brought an additional great point as well, personally the biggest problem is getting into trophy position with good timing, next is how to release the kinetic chain with 45 degree angle.
Good video. There's an ancient video from Nick Bolliteri called "The Sonic Serve". He super imposes a baseball pitcher over a server and tilts the angle of the pitcher upward. To those that say serving is not like throwing, go find this video and watch it. The 2 images (server and pitcher) are very very very similar. I would call them nearly identical. TPA video is correct in that throwing is usually a forward motion while serving is upwards. In baseball, the pitcher is on a mound and actually throwing downwards. I am fine with the 45 degree upward visualization but in reality in may be a bit steeper but close enough for the feel.
Great video about the throwing motion. For me, a good tennis throwing motion is all about staying super loose, getting a good trophy position and focusing more on driving the legs and firing the back hip up and round as explosively as possible which will naturally cause the racket to drop dynamically and create massive racket head speed. If people focused on staying loose and focusing more on the lower body than the upper body, the throwing motion would be much more natural and effortless.
This is what I am currently learning, a basic throwing motion involves the arm too much and the rest of the body too little. A really powerful tennis serve is driven through the legs and the rotation with a super relaxed arm in the trophy phase which as your body moves gets left behind down your back then catapulted out. The whole serve should feel like your arm and racket are a whip.
@@NamesAreRandom you are spot on. There's a reason why Roddick could hit 150mph serves with relative ease. He had an immensely powerful leg drive and could pop his back hip explosively to create a violent shoulder over shoulder body rotation. This motion naturally accellerated his racket rapidly just like the tip of a whip.
Thanks. Getting into the trophy position has helped tremendously but I know there is more to it than that. Hope this takes my serve to the next level. Whenever I can I get to my match early to hit serves for half an hour. Today I’ll make it a whole hour:)
Feel vs real. I’ve been taking golf lessons all my life and I know exactly what he means. This Britt is a world class teacher to the game of tennis. Go Chargers.. they used to have a great hockey team from Bama.. all Canadiens
Thanks for the great serve videos. Really like how you explain the throwing motion. Can you also post a video about serve toss? I would like to see your perspective on that.
Great information I always enjoy your videos. I was writing to ask if you could do a video sometime on how you view the serve should be wound up in order to drive the arm motion. The reason I asked this is that I was at a clinic one time and the instructor was describing a feel of building up tension in the core by holding the racquet arm back for as long as possible, He said the reason for this is the tension or torque in the core drives the racquet arm and shoulders which are tension free. He said if this was not done you have no drive on the ball at the contact point. I viewed another video of someone saying you should turn the shoulders while keeping the hips relatively stationary in order to create torque. I was just curious as most other sports, where a ball is propelled by the arm, seem to have a great deal of torque in the core or abs involved in order to generate the arm motion you see. It is difficult to pick up as good athletes make it look effortless.
If you use throwing model, it may be even steeper, like 60+ deg upwards, and mostly across the target line, not straight towards the box. I always wondered about coaches setting up a drill "throw the ball into the serving box" - not the case at all. What I like is - toss the ball like serving, then throw a second ball to hit the one in the air. THAT'S the motion you use with your racquet in a serve.
You pointed out that you're trying to get beginners to get the racquet to fall towards the net. That's what I do. But, every pro I see, their racquet falls to basically the left fence (for a right handed player), how do you fix this? Is this even a problem? What I'm talking about is the difference between your racquet drops to at the beginning of the video vs what you and Jeff do at the end of the video. Thanks!
I have good service motion as I used to pitch in baseball, an advanced serve compared to the rest of my game (about a 3.5) and I’ve been trying to work on improving it with your advice. Personally I like the ideas expressed in this video compared to your other video about internal rotation of the arm and the elbow movement (ruclips.net/video/vHqqyxaG7AY/видео.html ). I found that one was a little forced and unnaturally slowed down my motion. I like this video which I think will produce the same effect as a natural consequence of the correct motion with a continental grip.
@@Leight4Dinner Good points. Personally I find the Djokovic elbow snap super helpful. But maybe you don't need it because due to pitching your throwing motion was already in good shape! Like you I really like this 45 degree angle approach...
Intuitive Tennis says that the serve is definitely not a throwing motion. You seem to say it is. Can you settle the score with a confirmation and explanation? Look forward to reading it. Thanks
Here's my 2 cents from a decent rec player. There are a few sites saying serving isn't exactly like throwing, they are incorrect in my opinion. Serving is an upwards throwing motion. Nick Bolliteri produced a video decades ago showing a server and a baseball pitcher and he tilted the angle of the baseball pitcher to be throwing upward in an angle similar to the server and the side by side video showed the motions to be nearly identical. Pitching a baseball is actually a downwards motion because the pitcher is on a mound but if you adjust the angles of the pitching motion to be upwards, serving and pitching are very very similar. Also, a football quarterback that is throwing a very high deep pass is very similar to a server. Several pros, including Sharapova, use passing a football as a warm-up exercise for serving.
Quick question: How do you get your racquet face turned out 180 degree in this frame: ruclips.net/video/9imKaY0myyI/видео.html. When I try to internally rotate my shoulder and arm like that, my shoulder gets hurt. Thanks!
The more the hip is into the court the steeper the shoulder axis, and thus the steeper the ellbow going up -> the more snap. Almost 70° instead of just 45°... like a hail mary pass in football... then you can also outperform mr. salzenstein ;-)
@@TomAllsopp Racket leak usually means the racket head is going down behind the back before the legs fire upwards. The legs should begin to push up before or as the racket drops into the 'back scratch". Rick Macci has a video on it and Venus Williams occasionally gets out of sync and drops the racket down before firing up. The k-chain is a bit out of sync if you are "leaking" into the drop before the torso is engaged. I am not saying I saw the leak in your motion rather just explaining what it is.
Not sure about this analogy, the concept of “throwing the elbow” is a little strange. I get the concept of moving my elbow in a certain direction but I’m not sure that’s what we are talking about here.
anything we can learn from the javelin throw? last half of motion reminds me of a tennis player's move. if you click thru in slow-mo, you'll see launch angle is higher than it seems at reg speed: ruclips.net/video/3WFqbVGYIXU/видео.html
Surprisingly, some of what you are saying is useful to a powerful tennis serve. However, you do not understand how and why the elbow can be the key to a powerful serve. I will give you a hint: If you use the elbow to direct the leverage of the upper arm (humerus) you will be exploiting the use of a 3rd Class lever - where power at the fulcrum (shoulder) converts to speed of the lever (upper arm) and all that is attached to it: forearm and racket. Carry on...
@@TomAllsopp Teaching is not intended to be the pursuit of stupidity and ignorance. Perhaps it's time to change your style and bad attitude. Maybe a change in underwear as well...
You've got the best channel for Tennis. I've seen them all, but you're really ahead in explaining things. Thanks
In my opinion this is the best video on RUclips on the serve. No offense to the other great coaches out there but this observation by Tom here has helped me more than any other serve tip I’ve ever heard. Throwing to me makes sense growing up w baseball as my first sport - a serve thought of “throwing at a 45 deg angle” is unbelievably helpful to me - don’t have to build my serve from “scratch”.
Wonderful way of communicating what the "throwing" motion should consist of.
Thanks!
I think you and Jeff should do a session comparing your approaches to footwork. I like what both of you have to say about it.
Your remarks concerning the racquet drop happening as the shoulder rotates, in your previous vid with Jeff, really helped me a lot. This one’s icing on the cake. Cheers, Tom, from rainy North Wales.
Enjoyed the video with Jeff, learned a lot from these videos! Keep it up!
Thanks mate!
Nice specific tips and great practical demo both you and Jeff. If I can only recover my easy and consistent tossing ... am right up there. After long time recovering from knee injuries (patella syndrome) my brain refuses to do anything related knee bending :( ... This serve style helps to progress.
You never disappoint me with any of your videos. Great stuff.
Great explanation. Definitely about feel. Jeff dropping bombs 😅
yooooooooo!!!!!!!!! We got Jeff and Tom together. I love it! Sharing and explaining things together. You guys should do a series with eachother. Fantastic!!!!!
Another magic tip 🙏
Thoughtful and creative teaching as unusual.
Thanks for the visual!
I think @4:32 brought an additional great point as well, personally the biggest problem is getting into trophy position with good timing, next is how to release the kinetic chain with 45 degree angle.
Good video. There's an ancient video from Nick Bolliteri called "The Sonic Serve". He super imposes a baseball pitcher over a server and tilts the angle of the pitcher upward. To those that say serving is not like throwing, go find this video and watch it. The 2 images (server and pitcher) are very very very similar. I would call them nearly identical. TPA video is correct in that throwing is usually a forward motion while serving is upwards. In baseball, the pitcher is on a mound and actually throwing downwards. I am fine with the 45 degree upward visualization but in reality in may be a bit steeper but close enough for the feel.
I'm going to become an adept of the throw motion philosophy, forehand and serve. Thanks !
Great video about the throwing motion.
For me, a good tennis throwing motion is all about staying super loose, getting a good trophy position and focusing more on driving the legs and firing the back hip up and round as explosively as possible which will naturally cause the racket to drop dynamically and create massive racket head speed.
If people focused on staying loose and focusing more on the lower body than the upper body, the throwing motion would be much more natural and effortless.
This is what I am currently learning, a basic throwing motion involves the arm too much and the rest of the body too little. A really powerful tennis serve is driven through the legs and the rotation with a super relaxed arm in the trophy phase which as your body moves gets left behind down your back then catapulted out. The whole serve should feel like your arm and racket are a whip.
@@NamesAreRandom you are spot on. There's a reason why Roddick could hit 150mph serves with relative ease. He had an immensely powerful leg drive and could pop his back hip explosively to create a violent shoulder over shoulder body rotation.
This motion naturally accellerated his racket rapidly just like the tip of a whip.
Thanks. Getting into the trophy position has helped tremendously but I know there is more to it than that.
Hope this takes my serve to the next level. Whenever I can I get to my match early to hit serves for half an hour. Today I’ll make it a whole hour:)
Love your videos on the serve. Also watch Jeff S. channel, so the collaboration is very much appreciated.
Feel vs real. I’ve been taking golf lessons all my life and I know exactly what he means.
This Britt is a world class teacher to the game of tennis. Go Chargers.. they used to have a great hockey team from Bama.. all Canadiens
I tend to agree with you here, better to frame as throw to help beginner to intermediate players progress, then can work on some advanced techniques.
Thanks for the great serve videos. Really like how you explain the throwing motion. Can you also post a video about serve toss? I would like to see your perspective on that.
Thanks. Are you asking for a video on the toss?
@@TomAllsopp Yes sir
I loved your video about throwing motion (Sampras and Federer footage). For the first time the serve throwing motion made sense to me.
Great information I always enjoy your videos. I was writing to ask if you could do a video sometime on how you view the serve should be wound up in order to drive the arm motion. The reason I asked this is that I was at a clinic one time and the instructor was describing a feel of building up tension in the core by holding the racquet arm back for as long as possible, He said the reason for this is the tension or torque in the core drives the racquet arm and shoulders which are tension free. He said if this was not done you have no drive on the ball at the contact point. I viewed another video of someone saying you should turn the shoulders while keeping the hips relatively stationary in order to create torque. I was just curious as most other sports, where a ball is propelled by the arm, seem to have a great deal of torque in the core or abs involved in order to generate the arm motion you see. It is difficult to pick up as good athletes make it look effortless.
Great question. I’ll see what I can come up with
good stuff
Another good one...thanks man!
If you use throwing model, it may be even steeper, like 60+ deg upwards, and mostly across the target line, not straight towards the box. I always wondered about coaches setting up a drill "throw the ball into the serving box" - not the case at all. What I like is - toss the ball like serving, then throw a second ball to hit the one in the air. THAT'S the motion you use with your racquet in a serve.
Nice!
How do you use the black club towards the end?
Great video! It is very helpful. Oh, it is Valley Church tennis court. Could I meet you guys there?
Yes it is. You can schedule a lesson with me there. Email me at tpatennis at gmail. Thanks!
You pointed out that you're trying to get beginners to get the racquet to fall towards the net. That's what I do. But, every pro I see, their racquet falls to basically the left fence (for a right handed player), how do you fix this? Is this even a problem? What I'm talking about is the difference between your racquet drops to at the beginning of the video vs what you and Jeff do at the end of the video. Thanks!
Are you talking about the racket being on edge vs racket and palm facing the sky?
How we feeling about this?
Love it!! I'm going to practice it soon. You have a really good service form.
This is great. Nice Jeff cameo too.
I have good service motion as I used to pitch in baseball, an advanced serve compared to the rest of my game (about a 3.5) and I’ve been trying to work on improving it with your advice. Personally I like the ideas expressed in this video compared to your other video about internal rotation of the arm and the elbow movement (ruclips.net/video/vHqqyxaG7AY/видео.html ). I found that one was a little forced and unnaturally slowed down my motion. I like this video which I think will produce the same effect as a natural consequence of the correct motion with a continental grip.
@@Leight4Dinner thanks! Yes, the Elbow snap of not for everyone.
@@Leight4Dinner Good points. Personally I find the Djokovic elbow snap super helpful. But maybe you don't need it because due to pitching your throwing motion was already in good shape!
Like you I really like this 45 degree angle approach...
Intuitive Tennis says that the serve is definitely not a throwing motion. You seem to say it is. Can you settle the score with a confirmation and explanation? Look forward to reading it. Thanks
Here's my 2 cents from a decent rec player. There are a few sites saying serving isn't exactly like throwing, they are incorrect in my opinion. Serving is an upwards throwing motion. Nick Bolliteri produced a video decades ago showing a server and a baseball pitcher and he tilted the angle of the baseball pitcher to be throwing upward in an angle similar to the server and the side by side video showed the motions to be nearly identical. Pitching a baseball is actually a downwards motion because the pitcher is on a mound but if you adjust the angles of the pitching motion to be upwards, serving and pitching are very very similar. Also, a football quarterback that is throwing a very high deep pass is very similar to a server. Several pros, including Sharapova, use passing a football as a warm-up exercise for serving.
Quick question: How do you get your racquet face turned out 180 degree in this frame: ruclips.net/video/9imKaY0myyI/видео.html. When I try to internally rotate my shoulder and arm like that, my shoulder gets hurt. Thanks!
Use your forearm
Thanks Coach!
never saw it this way... throwing up in a 45 degree angel
GREAT funny ending =)
The more the hip is into the court the steeper the shoulder axis, and thus the steeper the ellbow going up -> the more snap. Almost 70° instead of just 45°... like a hail mary pass in football... then you can also outperform mr. salzenstein ;-)
So, throw it 45 degrees up, as if throwing out of a bigger well?
A really wide and shallow well
You’re saying “throw elbow” instead of “throw racket” - is that significant?
That’s just how you actually achieve throwing the racket.
Good idea, however it looks like you have the racquet drop leak where you're losing power this way.
What’s that mean?
@@TomAllsopp Racket leak usually means the racket head is going down behind the back before the legs fire upwards. The legs should begin to push up before or as the racket drops into the 'back scratch". Rick Macci has a video on it and Venus Williams occasionally gets out of sync and drops the racket down before firing up. The k-chain is a bit out of sync if you are "leaking" into the drop before the torso is engaged. I am not saying I saw the leak in your motion rather just explaining what it is.
Not sure about this analogy, the concept of “throwing the elbow” is a little strange. I get the concept of moving my elbow in a certain direction but I’m not sure that’s what we are talking about here.
The mechanics of throwing. That’s what I’m talking about.
anything we can learn from the javelin throw? last half of motion reminds me of a tennis player's move. if you click thru in slow-mo, you'll see launch angle is higher than it seems at reg speed: ruclips.net/video/3WFqbVGYIXU/видео.html
Yes, I think they use more shoulder like Jeff and I were talking about in our previous video. I like that comparison.
Surprisingly, some of what you are saying is useful to a powerful tennis serve. However, you do not understand how and why the elbow can be the key to a powerful serve. I will give you a hint: If you use the elbow to direct the leverage of the upper arm (humerus) you will be exploiting the use of a 3rd Class lever - where power at the fulcrum (shoulder) converts to speed of the lever (upper arm) and all that is attached to it: forearm and racket. Carry on...
My job isn’t to confuse everyone watching. Your lectures get zero views.
@@TomAllsopp Teaching is not intended to be the pursuit of stupidity and ignorance. Perhaps it's time to change your style and bad attitude. Maybe a change in underwear as well...