Before any comments get dropped. I am all for seeing the Devs vision through to the end. I might be nervous about the Water Death Mechanic, but I havn't even gotten my hands into the game yet. I am Eager as hell to test this game out and see how it functions. I don't think there needs to be any major upset about Water Death until we are playing the game. Those of you who are upset with the mechanic, wait for a content creator like myself to give you the truth of the matter and if it really is a system you should be worried about. Until then. Cheers, I look forward to civil discussions with you all.
there is plenty of games that have similar mechanics and they did just fine. If the devs vision is to have water death mechanic it should be just fine, because i herd that you will be able to have water stored for month and i think they have realy good idea with recovery mechanic from water death with buying from friends innards so you can get same loadout you would in your innard seconds before the water death, im not afraid at all and i think people should not be scared of it specialy go talk about it like they know what they are talking about without even experiencing it first hand
Also its like Rust or SCUM with offline raids. No one can be on 24/7 and you can log back in to find yourself naked and broke. If you choose to play that game then you know what comes with the territory.
Me and my Helldivers2 / DarkTide40K -friends are exited for Forever Winter, but if we are losing resources when away; this game is a no go for us, no matter any arguments. It's simply not worth our time. We have kids and hobby lives outside of computer gaming. Time is the most precious resource in the world, cause it's constantly running out on all of us, and we don't need a water-resource in a game to do the same. Any hobby better make sure it's worth spending our limited time on it. If FW don't drop this mechanic like a hot potato we have HD2, DT40K, Baldur's Gate 3 etc to play, where we don't lose resources when away.
Easy fix, don't tick it down when you're offline, decrease how much you get from runs, increase how much is used when you're online. Players should not be forced to play the game because there's a ticking timer that resets their progress if they don't meet it's demands.
if water usage continues after I log out? no way I am playing. imagine in tarkov if your fuel was used even when offline? there is a reason why you can just shut of your generator. You don't get crafting but you don't use fuel. it is a good trade off.
@@STLMTB I think that could be good. A way to "shut off" access to the water and let it sit. Stops productions (or whatever Water powers/is used for) but wont tick down when not playing. If you want to keep things running when offline, you just leave it on and it ticks down. That could be a good temporary solution (assuming its easy to implement) while they get the right balance.
Having offline mechanics (similar to Elite Dangerous when they announced their fleet carriers) that penalize players who have busy lives can make even a great game feel like work. Games are not meant to be a part-time job. They are meant to be a break from it. I really hope the devs get rid of this. Have it while in game, allow people to stockpile but don't punish people if they have a life to live. I can't stress this enough. I'm 47, have a job, mortgage, shit ton of bills, travel from time to time, have a social life and do play other games. I should not have to suffer (in game) because of this. It quickly removes the fun.
The system in itself is flawed, no game in existance punishes a player for playing/not playing the game, the core fundamentals of the game should replaced (the water system) Not to consider the fact that you costumize your weapon really carefully just to die to an insta kill drone or mech, I believe his such systems are really bad for the game
Anxiety is fun if it's relieved. I believe the problem with water death is that the anxiety never turns to excitement it just stays anxiety. You should feel accomplished when you find water, not like you're inserting a quarter in order to play the game.
We'll just have to try it out in the end. If I can come out of a raid with like 2-3 days (IRL) of water each run and I can end a daily session focusing on water and come out with like 2-3 weeks of water? That would make me feel pretty relieved lol
The anxiety should stay in game and not spill to RL, having to think about yet another chore. Water death is not a bad concept in of itself, it should stay strictly in-game time.
@@jansvoboda4293 I partly disagree. A lot of really good games have you thinking about it when you're not playing. Not just for planning, but also having a passive game play aspect while your offline that rewards you later. Farmville proved this idea on a massive scale; and its not the first game to do this. Part of the perceptual problem is that most games in the last 15 years are overtuned in the extreme habituation direction. Basically to keep you hooked into the game with all your free time, and on a truly daily basis. Theres also a common "toxic positive feedback loop" that uses FOMO to make sure you're logging in daily, doing your daily quests, and popping your daily RNGs. You don't lose anything if you don't do it.... but the sense of "lost opportunity" promotes way more anxiety then having to restart your base after a long hiatus. If the water timer pauses when you're not playing, its just another currency that you stock pile and doesn't matter after the second or third you passed a minimum threshold. For many survival crafting games, this is known as the Automation Hump. Where in order to prevent you from brute forcing your way up the tech tree, the magnitude of materials needed have to continually increase. To counteract that, the tech tree itself usually unlocks methods to make previously scare resources more abundant for the current input requirement to reach the next tier in the tree. The majority of the time this is some form of automation, or marked increase in farming speed. There are a decent number of games with "actual time" elements. However, most people don't know about them, due to the more niche genres they're a part of. Aside from Tamagotchi-type games, which are designed around routine attention, theres a whole sub-genre of Empire Builders like Ogame. Ogame runs in actual time, is browser based, and the bulk of the game is passively generating resources, and issuing build/upgrade orders for buildings and ships. The advanced game has you raiding other planets for resources to feed your growing empire. It can take minutes, hours, [and on the very late game] multiple days to execute orders. You check in on your stuff, issue orders, set your clock for when its done, then check back pick the next thing to work on. If it wasn't for the default PvP on most servers, you could leave the game alone for days, and come back to a massive pile of resources to spend on whatever projects you can do with your current step in the Tech Tree. Colonize multiple planets to generate resources faster. Or just raid other planets to get a big influx of resources. Even if other empires attack you, it can take hours or even a couple of days to reach you, depending on how far apart you are. More than enough time to formulate a response..... Send your resources off world. Consolidate a defense fleet from your other planets. Build more ships if you have the time. Call for help from an ally, and have them send an invasion fleet time perfectly to meet the enemy at their planet, to steal back the stolen resources, and wreak their fleet in the process. Even send salvage ships in a wave after the first one, so scoop up all that raw material left behind from the battle. Excellent options are there that can both enhance the game, and add depth to the meta game. You just have to be willing to think outside the tiny box WoW has made the rest of the industry fit into for the past 20 years.
If water loss happens in the background all the time so you’re punished for not logging on for a week, people will stop playing. Water should deplete when you’re logged in and or when you go on raids. I’m a pretty hardcore gamer and I don’t want to take penalties because I go on vacation or play another game or am busy in real life.
There is another way to look at it. Players usually returned to Tarkov during wipes and didn't mind grinding their gear from start. Water mechanic is an automatic wipe. Also I found that I enjoyed Battlefield series less, whe Inhave already unlocked all weapons. Will see how it feels when it comes out.
See, I don't really know, but can't you just play this game in isolated instances?It seems like an extraction shooter, so can't you just play It for 1 day?And then the next day start over?@mistermugsy
I would like to add that I had a personal chat with Miles, the CEO, and he mentioned that the water system is a massive WIP and they are actively working to make it more practical and less punishing for folks who cannot play the game often. They've got plans for it to make it so that water death happens from skill issues instead of time commitment issues. Hope this helps :)
Absolutely helps, and is why I made the video. I am looking to just give a voice to the worried, and I have hopes they will indeed keep themselves opened to changing it should it prove needing change. But I can't wait to get my hands on it and review it. Cheers mate, and thanks!
That’s good to hear. As soon as I heard about resource loss while away, I had flashbacks to Metal Gear: Survive. I really hope the game doesn’t turn out to be like Metal Gear: Survive…
I think a simple solution would be to give players the option to put their game in stasis. No watter loss, but also no offline resource generation either (assuming offline generation or resource sharing will even be a thing).
Agreed. If water is a source of power that lets continued production of something (craft or research) then having the option to turn it off to prevent water loss but lose that offline production would be a nice alternative. If you know you're hopping on the next day and want the production to continue offline then you leave it on and it consumes water.
Either this or make it all on-line time only in the first place and adjust accordingly. I want consequences of action or inaction in the game, not according to my scheduling of RL.
The system in itself is flawed, no game in existance punishes a player for playing/not playing the game, the core fundamentals of the game should replaced (the water system) Not to consider the fact that you costumize your weapon really carefully just to die to an insta kill drone or mech, I believe his such systems are really bad for the game
@@TheAndreicornel I actually though about how I would design water resource based system. Water should be a resource rather than constant timer and it should be linked to in game time management. Basically you would set threshold how many people you invite and it would impact water consumption so bigger community with more perks and unlocks would be more costly in term of daily water supply. If you found you can no longer meet the demands, you could scale it down and there should be no sudden water death. It should just scale down organically as people would not stay there to die, but when they find water is running out, they would pack their things and go find their fortune elsewhere (they should have some agency and not be like a caged cattle). The departure could be quite immediate, but they should trickle in over time so you would have to plan ahead and not just scale it in the moment as currently convenient. This would give certain value to keeping them in over constantly re-adjusting based on momentary utility. Time ticking would be based on in game actions/missions as scavs need to rest, maintain gear, prepare and plan for next mission and transfer in and out of the target area.
I don't know if I'm unique in this. Probably not, but has anybody else ever lost an save file from a game they love and just will not pick it up again? It is absolutely demoralizing to have tens twenties twenties hundreds of hours into a game and your save files gone and all your progress is gone and just the thought of getting back into that is depressing. I fear that this will have the same feeling.
A dev that want's you to feel anxiety about what happens in their PvE game while you are offline is a dev that deserves to fail. I shouldn't feel like I have an obligation to play a game because I don't want to loose my progress when I already have far too much stuff to do. There's already too much shit causing anxiety from day to day in most peoples lives, and putting any mechanic where you have any consequences while away from the game in a already hardcore PvE game is asinine. People play games like this to feel tension in encounters and a rush of adrenaline when things come down to the wire. Not to have the stuff they worked for lost when they decide to take a break from it.
It’s really not a problem 5 hours of gameplay gives me 2 months time to come back. You don’t loose money or gear or xp just have to grind your traders back up
@@TactiGat Ok. If water is so easy to come by, then why does it even exists to begin with? Its pointless and abundant. Its not even a gameplay mechanic. Its a system exist to manipulate your time irl. GTFO with that.
@@cavemanbonk8320 ah yes, the "If you don't like the objectively bad design, then don't play it." defense every moron uses. Like seriously just say you want the game to have a short lifespan and stop trying to defend shite practices. Not like it'll bother me, shit eaters can have their shit and eat it.
People are assuming this mechanic is for game play, its not, its for the studio to retain that player count over time. But this only shows the inexperience of the devs, every online game that punishes players for their real world duties are destined to fail, and they have failed. I have played numerous games with various form of offline count down mechanics, whether in the form of tax/rent, resource depletion (as in Forever Winter), or power degradation, all of these games no longer exists. Compared to MANY modern game devs, I do like the team and their direction in Forever Winter, however, if the devs claims to have a game that has the players' interests in mind, they have to walk the talk or else how are they different from predatory devs like Ubisoft, Blizzard, or NetEast? Holding off purchase until this gets fixed.
maybe they could add some system allowing people who play a lot to contribute others tank, could reinforce the feeling of needed solidarity for survival
That would be cool, especially since they are allowing us to give weapons to a gift market. Why can’t water work the same. Fantastic idea mate! Cheers!
Me and my Helldivers2 & DarkTide40K friends are exited for Forever Winter, but if we are losing resources when away... this game is a no go for us, no matter any arguments. It's simply not worth our time. We have kids and hobby lives outside of computer gaming. Time is the most precious resource in the world, cause it's constantly running out on all of us, and we don't need a water resource in a game to do the same. Any hobby better make sure it's worth spending our limited time on it. If FW don't drop this mechanic like a hot potato we have HD2, DT40K, Baldur's Gate 3 etc to play, where we don't lose resources when away.
Having consequences for not playing the game for a while as a way to keep players coming back is absolutely not the way to do this. A game needs to rope players back in with what it can do FOR the player if they chose to log back in and play, not with what it will deprive them of if they don't. If I want to load up a raid in forever winter, it should be because I want to experience the exciting and tense gameplay, not because I feel like I'm forced to as some sort of chore to prevent me losing all my gear. If these devs want to keep up their little front of "oh we're not like the rest of those yucky game companies with their underhanded practices", they need to do something about this.
Can’t argue these facts at all. Well said. You’re right they do claim to want to be better than the AAA companies. So when we give criticism we gotta be clear and precise. I hope they are open to change it if it is bad. But for now I wait. Once I get it going I’ll pop feed back on it. Cheers mate, thanks for the comment!
Me and my Helldivers2 & DarkTide40K friends are exited for Forever Winter, but if we are losing resources when away... this game is a no go for us, no matter any arguments. It's simply not worth our time. We have kids and hobby lives outside of computer gaming. Time is the most precious resource in the world, cause it's constantly running out on all of us, and we don't need a water resource in a game to do the same. Any hobby better make sure it's worth spending our limited time on it. If FW don't drop this mechanic like a hot potato we have HD2, DT40K, Baldur's Gate 3 etc to play, where we don't lose resources when away.
If any of the FW devs happen to be skimming comments, is saying this: I can't really play videogames that become a second job. If a videogame, which in the end is a toy for entertainment and escapism from mundane life hits me with "you must play by X time or were going to get rid of your progress/gear/etc" Im just thinking "well I could treat this game like work or I can just work overtime at my real job" Unless your game can beat $300+ of overtime, please don't ask me to approach it as a chore, cause the game is never gonna win that fight.
yeah, i dont think this is for me. sounds like its just gonna make my entertainment into a job i just recently came back to warframe after being off it for 2 years, i would have deleted it 5 minutes in if i logged in and it told me because i had been gone so long they just deleted my guns
that's my feeling as well. I typically play a game that's hot for a bit and then set it down and come back to it later. After being burned out by so many live service games in recent years, I am intentionally avoiding any game that gives me "fomo" so this water loss mechanic is an easy skip for me personally.
The developers of Icarus did the correct thing - They listened to the community and removed the RL mission timer countdown to it only been a countdown while playing that active mission. People have RL to contend with and don't want to be forced to play with the threat of character lose or in this case a built up base? Even having to be forced to sink a couple of hours per week into the game is a slight turn off for me as I have a tendency to cycle through a few games every month or two, to try and reduce burnout
Being a father of two and behind in other obligations hits different when youre a father of two trying to solo dev a game (vids under channel). I feel you and im here for it
The biggest issue was after we learned from the closed beta that player were able to get a months worth of water in just a single play session, that it wasn't going to be as brutally hand holding as we feared it would be, the developers said that was more then they expected and they would be adjusting it. It gives this bad taste that the dev are just reactionary developers, look at game developers such as Bungie, Arrowhead, fromsoftware, and so on they don't think about the tweaking they just look at the players and see what get talked about the most by the most popular voices in the community. It make me think the dev will be playing this awful arms race with the player where anytime something the player dose steps just a little bit out side of the imaged bounds ,and is boosted, of what should be happening then here rolls in the nerfs and the buffs to fight the player back into place. Ive been though this disrespectful bs with other game dev enough to not want to waste my time with a new game and new dev team that's is singling that they will act like every other dev in this regard.
You aren’t wrong, my origins here lie with Fatshark and their knee jerk nerfs. It does suck. Arrowhead burned everything to the ground almost, and finally managed to get their head on right. What I can say is, I’ll happily be your test dummy and cover the game as much as I can to give the most balanced review. Don’t spend your money yet and hang out in the comments whenever you’re looking for updates. You’re welcome here mate. Cheers.
Water is so incredibly easy to obtain. I don't know why so many people are up in arms about this mechanic. I have a pretty busy life, but playing a couple few hours a day I can find a week's worth of water without even making it a priority.
You could always make the water feature an optional feature. Make 2 game modes, Casual: no timed water depletion. Maybe water depleted by each in game day played. So water only drains when you're playing the game. And survival: the current plan where water always is dropping.
I loved how the devs have handled the game. This is my only criticism. No PVE game is entitled to a persons time and mentality. We choose to play the game the game doesn’t own us.
Players should not be made to feel like a game is a job they have to clock in. Real life job is enough. Hopefully they remove that offline drain and replace it with something more gameplay related. "Losing" a progress by not playing is strange. Rather lose progress from being bad at the game and not finding enough water than from real life calling.
I think the bottom line is none of us want to play a game as if it's a chore, we want to relax and unwind from the chores of daily life, not have more chores in game. A good example is Destiny 2 I play that mostly to do my daily bounties that give materials but then I log off and don't touch it. I don't think that's a healthy aspect for a videogame to have, and the water system is giving me that vibe. The water system is unnecessary for player retention, if that's what they're going for, and just seems like a cumbersome system that adds no benefit.
In foxhole, the chance for enemy to destroy your base is balanced by your efforts always effectively helping the frontline as a whole and the situation being symmetrical: You have a chance of doing the same to the enemy, and that is why both sides keep playing. Also in Foxhole if you lose a base, that means that without your effort, the entire frontline would lose even MORE ground. It was the justified rules of the game that both sides agreed for while playing, where the payoff is that both sides can do the same things to each other. In this game meanwhile, water is an arbitrary timer which the devs can adjust up and down, toggle on and off, and when it comes down to it the end result is that the game actively punishes you if you want to stop playing for any reason at all, and it is completely one-sided. In Foxhole the enemy might stop playing too, the wars are balanced because both teams have players logging in and out at all times. In Forever Winter, it's one-sided and arbitrary, and that is the issue. This mechanic makes the game stop being entertainment and turns it into a job, even if it gets dialed back a bit. I can already imagine everybody who wants to take a break from the game for any reason ever groaning "oh god, time for my monthly water mission..." years down the line, until finally they say "enough is enough" and the fact that they had to say "no" to the game in order to stop being forced by it to keep playing, it will make them not pick the game up ever again more likely than not
Anxiety is exactly the reason i quit playing Warthunder. Nomatter how good the game is mechanically and it being a all time favorite game I played for 13 full years. They started pushing events after events. And slowly cranked it the grind to become borderline insane. Where you had to spend at least 16 hours a day nonstop factor in shitty luck with loosing several games playing if you were to unlock all of the special 1 of a kind event vehicles. But the grind ans the anxiety of missing out because these vehicles would be worth a lot of money in the internal market system which allowed you to purchase premium stuff. In the end, I had it, I simply got completely burned out and have never touched the game since.
This feels like the logical extreme of the scummy FOMO psychological tactics some developers have used to rope in players. If this is allowed to stand, how long until the next Ubisoft, EA or Blizzard live service game not only include daily rewards but also wipe part of your progress if you do not regularly return to play and invest into their product ? I believe this may be a horse armor situation, the first breach in the dam holding back a tidal wave of scum and if we don't patch it we'll drown again, just like we all are now with predatory microtransactions.
Fun Dog Studios needs to get this water feedback from the community in their skull and decide real early on whether they want to have a game or none at all, full stop.
I get where the devs are coming from but at the end of the day I just want to sit down after work and relax while playing. And yes hardcore games are also relaxing. But feeling the need to log in just stresses me and I don't need (more)stress in my life. The game setting, art and concept are all very appealing. The water mechanic on the other hand is a no buy unfortunately.
Simple, theres no reason to punish players for not playing. Game mechanics should not punish us because we have life responsibilities. It is going to severely impact player numbers and overall success. Its totally fine for a game to be hardcore and punish you for bad gameplay, that is something that we can learn, get better at, etc.
Make it an option to chose from start: 1 water depletes only online 2 water depletes all the time (bonus drops) so when someone wants more anxiety he can have it. Everyone happy.
I would love to see a system where at some point you can send out mercenaries on their own little expedition to hunt down water so you can focus on other things other than collecting more water
You don't want people feeling anxiety outside of the game because that contributes to burn out. We have enough things in our life causing anxiety without a video game adding on top of that. There's only so much anxiety a human can handle in their life and the first contributor to get dropped will always be the optional one (i.e. video games).
I work IRL. I have a job that give me tiny fractions of free time to relax before I have to head to bed. -My work doesn't exactly allow for being a bit sleepy. Considering if I screw up, up to 60 person can die in a tragic accident.- I want to enjoy the Forever Winter, but I also want to be able to enjoy other games from time to time. Not get stuck playing one and only one game in fear of losing my stash. Yeah I will die, yeah the game is supposed to be hardcore. But no game should be stressfull OUTSIDE of it.
Offline water loss is at best a novelty that will lose any and all enjoyment the second something happens outside the players control and keeps them from playing. A mechanic like this seems like a shortcut to tension that this game may not need to take. Unless the devs are set on giving ppl the same vibes as forgetting to feed their tomagatchi?
Games are something you spend time on when you have your free time. You play it when you have time for it lol. If they introduce offline generation and depletion of resources, that will irritate the players more than excite them. Who remembers the time when they're so obsessed on their Clash of Clans? No one has the time for that kind of game if its not on mobile since most players are working members of society.
I can't say I'm the biggest fan of it myself. Rather than tying it to real time it would be better if it were tied to play time. That way the game never becomes homework that I have to come back to in order to maintain my progress.
Civil discussions? On the internet? Inconceivable! Though I will say, the ai pathing needs some work. Often times it looks like they’re going one way, then they backtrack less than five seconds later. Makes it very difficult to even get around them. But I’m sure that will be ironed out too.
Oh, I’ll curate, lol. Oh yeah, a lot of movement looks janky and the AI does get stuck on its pathing as I have seen. As long as people give feedback that explains what is happening, where, etc, it’ll get fixed.
@@mistermugsy feedback is useful of course, though it seems people really like to bandy opinions with facts and insults. Often times, It’s tough to discern which is which among these three. Sometimes the civil feedback gets drowned by a very large vocal section. Seen it in warhammer, Star Wars and other franchises. Yikes is all I can say.
The running water timer reminds me of Icarus at release. They did a running offline timer for a mission that was a problem for the "I have a life" crowd. After about a year, they let people run their games locally, so the timer only ran when their game was active. I was very happy when they changed that, and the player base grew a ton from having happy people talking about their game. They even added the mission boards, so people didn't have to keep starting new bases. There was a just doing enough mentality, when it was all going to get burned down. That mechanic was great for some, but awful for many.
The fact that the devs have married themselves to such a poorly conceived concept has stripped me of all the excitement I initially felt when I first seen this game.
This feels like the same bullshit mechanic Arma 2 Epoch modded servers had back in 2012/2014 with the safes. You had to log in every 15 days, open every single safe you had, otherwise they would automatically unlock. Gone are the days where I would have the patience to log in, open 50 safes for 20-30 minutes, and log out. If this game has a mechanic anywhere similar to this, it's not getting my money.
Yeah, the water mechanic is a huge turn off for me. I work 60 plus hrs a week. If this is implemented then I'm not the targeted audience. Which is fine, I want this game to succeed.
I love hardcore games. I played eve for years , i played mortal online , i play tarkov , I'm no stranger from hardcore games . None of them kill me while I'm offline and use up my gatherer recource . None of them ! And they are the most hardcore games a person can play . Bottom line .. I'm not ok with offline degridation of any kind . This game speaks to me on so many levels. I was 100% going to buy it . I will not play a game that does this to me . I will not.
Simply don’t play is a valid option. But in this case, it does need some rework. State of Decay has a similar system, but it doesn’t have the offline drain, and yet I still wanted to come back to it. Good times.
Not buying this game if it has real time penalties, sometimes I put a game down for a month or more before coming back. My work has a schedule I have to follow, my videogames should NOT.
My issue is that it preys on the FOMO of players. It is also pretentious to want your game to alter the thinking of people outside of their playtime. This is not their role. And as the first steam comment you showed very well stated, this is not hardcore, just annoying and I'd add manipulative. To me it is a deal breaker and a red flag about the dev team's way of thinking. I'll wait to see how it turned out, but i'm not playing the beta at launch as i had planned to do before this debacle.
Hey no worries mate. I think it is a good call to hold off for now. Having a game that preys on timer mechanics like this rubs me the wrong way too. But I’m still happy to be a test dummy for others. It sucks being told they want you to feel anxious, cause that is a shitty feeling when it comes from fear of constant loss. However when it comes from the thought eagerness to get back in the fight totally different. At least I think so. Cheers mate, I look forward to informing you bout it.
Didn't they make a video bashing on AAAs about manipulative practices? Pretty hypocritical, now that they even considered having this kind of mechanic in-game...even if it's not after our money outright.
Very well said. A game is a service provided to the customer, it is entertainment. It is not a tool or piece of equipment that requires regular maintenence. Players, outside of voluntary improvement and eventually mastery of utilising the game mechanics, should not be expected to alter their behaviour to enjoy the game. Success in a game should be rewarded to players who improve at playing it, not those who improve at scheduling their timetables around playing it.
Ive been hyped for this game for so long now. It looks awesome and like exactly what ive been looking for. But this water mechanic is genuinely taking ALL the wind out my sails. I hate time mechanics. I stopped playing destiny 2 because they took away storylines and such. I stopped playing other games due to the offline timers. I refuse to play games with timed battlepasses regularly. I only play games that either dont care about you logging in and playing or that reward you for logging in and playing repeatedly. Im but a fly, so give me the honey, fun dog.
Your gear and all being reset because you didn't have time to play this week. Is crazy.. they are gonna kill thier own game. I've been waiting for years for this and that's already made me feel like I don't wanna play this.
The issue is the countdown ticking down when you're offline. To be fair tho a 30 day window looks pretty generous, even if youre doing 2 or 3 raids a weeks
From what I understand and heard in the Q/A, the water death will have, at the bare minimum, a month of real-life time, with options to increase it (they were looking into systems for that.) From what I saw from someone playing Beta, it was an 80 day cap- and the Dev's did say they saw people during beta hitting the water cap (30 days or 80) within a single day of playing. Honestly, I think it's a decent mechanic- and I know I'm probably in the minority. I love survival/colony sims- so I'd even welcome mechanics of needing to supply your Innard with other things such as Meds/Food/Moral-needed items, constantly needing to keep your little settlement alive as certain events drain key resources- with a key exception. That ONLY would work as long as the timer is long enough to not aggressively punish offline play, as you said. Be it donation systems, a manual "pause" option, or higher-level systems that generate water/other items (as you said). I think it's a welcome change compared to other mechanics.
Don’t fret bout being in the minority! I also like the survival aspect, put a dumb amount of hours in Rimworld, and State of Decay. So I get it. While I hope they don’t go too buck wild without proper support systems, I hope they are open to feedback. Cheers mate!
@@mistermugsy I completely agree- there's that fine balance to be struck which other games have gone far too aggressive with. See you in the wasteland!
Yeah I'm willing to at least try it out first before looking for paint points. That need of keeping supplies up adds to the immersion. Yes its a tedious and likely annoying part of immersion, but I kind of like the idea. I mean even in games like Tarkov or BRs like Fortnite you can often see numbers drop towards the end of a season/wipe cycle because everyone is already tapped out on progress. I come back to Warframe every major update but because I'm completely caught up and in the end game, I get maybe like 10 hours of gameplay and then I'm basically done. This is the same for most live service games. So I see this water as something that I have to come back to. It's a reason to log back in even if I'm progressed in other areas.
@@ROFLWAFFLELAWL4 Precisely. I like the idea of needing to have some sort of upkeep- even a fairly complex system of upkeep. But there has to be that balance between fun immersion and struggle to survive, vs "oh great, we need to grind for supplies." Thus far though, I think the Devs have a good idea.
I’m in the minority as well I guess. It sounds like a fair mechanic. Play 1 day, get 30 days of water. I’ve been playing almost exclusively WoW for 19 years and I’m a lazy player. If you don’t like the survival aspect then don’t play a survival genere. Period.
@mistermugsy according to steam, the last game I played with a daily log-in reward that reset after a single missed day was August, 2018. The feeling of losing that much progress removed any motivation to play any game that has such a mechanic.
Hey, I fully understand that. No one can say you aren’t right to feel that. What I will say is once I am able to put a full review into the Water Death mechanic, I hope it gives people a proper answer. I said in the video, I’ll be the test dummy, cause I enjoy it. So you’re welcome here regardless of what you decide. Cheers mate.
@@mistermugsy there's also the question of how quick it is to recover from being offline for "too" long. A lot of unknowns at this point, plus, a lot can change during EA :)
99.9% this works with the system time. Before running the game, turn off the internet connection and change your PC/Console time a few hours after your last session. I am pretty sure this is how it works since without a connection the game can't phone back home to now what day and time it is. Remember that this will work only if you play offline....
Just because this game is a job for the devs, doesn't mean it should be a job for players also. This is doa if they make decisions like these. The game is niche as fuck anyway, they might wanna reconsider their position.
Because people don't like feeling forced to play a game, its the reason battle passes in many ways have completely ruined gaming, they make you feel like you HAVE to play the game when you don't, its psychologically manipulative and it makes the game feel more like a job than a fun game. Destiny 2 is the perfect example of this feeling, they made you feel like you had to play the game constantly to finish the battle pass and get many limited time items and guess what? After their best expansion most players left permanently, many reasons why but you know one of the ones i saw the most? People felt freer once they just left the game permanently, they didn't feel like they were enslaved by the game, nobody likes this except a very niche small section of players, usually ones who are gonna no life the game anyway. Unfortunately that's a very small section so i wouldn't recommend trying to focus on that small part of the player base.
The devs said in one of the Q&A vids on their discord that the water mechanic is something they're re-evaluating. So they are aware it's not ideal as it is. I agree with the other comments that it should work similar to the fuel in Tarkov where you can shut it off before you log out and not lose anything, but people who leave it on may gain something.... that seems fair
Yeah this singlehandedly took this game from Day One Must Have to Will Wait Till Sale. Not a fan of anything that punishes you for not playing. It's a game that I'm spending my money on, if you're going to punish me for when I choose to play/not play, I will save my money. Too bad.
They could really use the in game time as a clock instead of making it off line. I get why every game now a days wants to include something to make the players get back to the game but devs should do that by bringing new content, not a punishing system that they built into the game just so we have to play the game 24/7.
It's a predatory anti consumer mechanic that's there to force people to log into the game. There is no reason for it to not be optional. It doesn't matter how long you have, what matters is that the game will delete your progress if you don't log in. Enough with the hype cope. These devs PR themselves as pro consumer. This mechanic shows the opposite.
So, is it to create anxiety, or is it to clear the servers of people that aren't playing anymore? It seams more like the latter, but that makes the devs seem a little dishonest
The fact that I've seen people defending it because "oh it's a hardcover game" is so stupid. Forcing you to play a game or you lose all your stuff isn't difficulty, it's stupid.
I feel like it being a PVE game makes the water not needed. It makes it to where you HAVE to play. I want to be able to pick up and put down a game. Not have a new job. At the very least, it shouldn’t tick down when your not online/playing.
Wow, I've never had my hype die faster, literally 100% full interest in the game to 0 in five seconds. I have a life, your game shouldn't be a second job.
Well, the game isn't here yet, and the devs seem open to feedback, so the system has room to change. As I said, I'll test dummy it and we'll see from there. Cheers.
If youre even remotely above room temp iq, getting enough water is not the massive issue it seems like at first glance, I highly recommend at least giving it a second look jow that its out
@@cavemanbonk8320 I don't give a shit about how hard it is to aquire, I can grind if I want to, but if I want to take a break I don't want to lose my progress; I did buy it, I played it for a little under an hour and then refunded it because the only thing I thought about the entire time I played was that "Nothing I do means anything and my progress is irrelevant the second I decide to take a break and play something else", I can't even remember what the tutorial even was I was so disinterested, it was legitimately the least amount of fun I've ever had playing a videogame in my entire life. Having teeth pulled is a more enjoyable experience.
@@cavemanbonk8320 Because everyone kept telling me to try it, you literally told me to try it in your post, wtf is your problem? The game *is* for me, it's literally what I've been dreaming of since I was a little kid playing the mission 'Personal War' from Command & Conquer which shares a similar 'one grunt in the midst of a war' feel, but then they completely ruined it with an unnecessary feature that destroys all of your progress if you ever *dare* not come crawling back.
I really like the potential of this game. As a parent I don't get a whole lot of time for gaming and I totally agree that anxiety while playing is fine, but offline anxiety is a no-go. That's not fun. I will give the devs the benefit of the doubt though in coming up with a viable solution, as I do think they genuinely care about their audience and community good will.
They could add a mechanic lets call it "rain collector" what it does is it locks your Water Collection while offline however it does nothing while online so you lose water while playing but not while your busy for a week or two make it a Mid-Tier upgrade too to reward activly playing BUT in return because you now have so much excess water items are 20% more expensive turning off the water collector returns to regular pricing but also turns water loss while offline back on turning on and off has a 48 timer inbetween so - when you turn them on you cant turn them off for 2 days and vise versa at the same time of course infrom players "hey unless you have the rain collector THIS WILL HAPPEN be awear of that"
wait, so this game has a loot collection mechanic like in Tarkov. if you die, you lose everything you took with you and you have to keep an eye on your hydration because you will die if you take a long break from the game. and also the hardware requirement is RTX 20XX, who is this game for? ikona Zweryfikowane przez społeczność
With the first RedDead Redemption, my friend and I went into a town and I took the tallest building with the best view in a town he liked. He would bait players into coming towards the town and I would snipe them, if they got past me, he was ambushing anyone coming into the town... but it was just us two. This is how we've played many games, I snipe and he'd bait them into a territory and ambush who I didn't kill off first. ☕🐝🇺🇸
I won't buy the game if they implement this. I have already experience this mechanic with State of Decay and I HATED it with a passion. Coming after a week of work only to find my base without supplies and survivors missing. This is not fun at all for people that can't log in every single day. I seriously hope the devs reconsider this.
Hey I just wanted to say keep doing what you're doing because this is the first video I found of yours but I truly enjoyed it. You are in-depth you're open and honest with your community about your IRL life but you also get so in-depth about your hypothesis on games and you also deliver truth with no BS on the back end and your content creator that literally is willing to take the pocketbook hit AKA money to make sure that something is fun before their Community buys it that is epic. thank you and I hope I see you on the SCAV field! ❤😊 .....Sir I will like and follow till the end STAY BLESSED NOT STRESSED
This mechanic just leads into more players using cheats, and I cant blame them for it. Was out of town for a week. Ran out of water. Well back to square one for you. Well they can boot up some cheats and get back what they lost in minutes. Its a sad state where someone would need to use cheats to compensate for poor mechanics.
That wont add anxiety or consequence. Only burnout and annoyance. I don't want another chore or job mechanic straight from some of the WORST AAA companies and GACHA games. It's bullshit and the reasoning is bullshit. It needs to be removed entirely or heavily reworked to ONLY DRAIN WHILE PLAYING. DON'T force me to play more to not lose progress. I will leave the game permanently within the first month or not even purchase in the first place because that's an INSANE burnout issue. Loss of opportunity is better than loss of what I already have.
Off topic, but I'm 100% there with you on "Dad games" I got a little time at night and random throughout the week to play. Coop and solo games are so nice.
@@mistermugsy, that is the Best trade off. Keeps pressure(pun intended) and doesn't allows you to skirt the horrible reality of war; the war and the people doesn't care about you, your needs or beliefs, it only cares about taking your life.
in 3 days im already at 50 days, I didnt no life it but only started playing on the weekend when I was done with work Friday. in all honesty its not a big deal, you can literally farm water like crazy, it would take absolute negligence to the highest degree to the game to loss your water and all your gear, if I stopped playing now id be good till the 5th of November, if I maxed it out to 55 jugs of water which is the same as 55 days it would take me till the 10th of November, if I buy the extra water storage lvl 2 upgrade id buy an extra 10 days, and would be good till the 15th of November. Trust me its not a big deal. idk why people are freaking out you can take literally a months long break run one good run and complete two missions on the same map and carry 3 water jugs on your back and make up more than a weeks worth of not playing.
You're right, we do need to wait. But it is still valuable to see what it is that is worry a lot of people who might play the game. I'm eager to test it regardless of how I feel. It is the only real way you know what it is about. Cheers
So, comment is a little late, and anyone reading this might know by now, but you don't just "pick up more water", you have a large item slot in your rig to carry 1 tub of water. It's not even that scarce in most runs - sometimes I'll pass over like 6 or so tubs of water - but it takes time to build up enough water to get the rig merchant available, and the money to afford a bigger rig that has more large slots. The rigs you can use also depend on which character you play, and how much you spec'd into their ability to use better rigs, thus it is a big time, credit, and effort investment to get to the point you are able to "just go in and pick up a shitload of water", which is a thing most people overlook when they say "it's fine/not hard to get water/etc" - they aren't considering the people who cannot no-life speedrun the game for a day or 2 to get to that point where they can just not worry about it
Oh man, the game wants to pressure me to keep playing... continuously or else we lose all our progress? That'll be a deal breaker. "Anxiety and excitement" isn't what I really look for in a game and it already looked like it was gonna be stressful.
I feel you Ace. I’m a sucker for in game anxiety but strictly in game. Too old and too busy for external haha. But I hope they are open to change and improve it. Cheers mate!
I imagine the Marauders'sscavs basically being stranded in spaces, while the forever winter's scavs are stuck in Earth. Basically, kinda of a Lose-lose scenario for all party lol
@@the-dripbine Marauders is ok. The game is definitely not solo friendly. I only put 20 hours into it, but 95% of my raids failed because I'd get ganked by a trio group.
The point of a game is for it not to fall apart, the game was a break away from the real world, that is there permanently, you don't lose your progres like a car, a house a phone, that's the point of a game, to escape reality into a more enjoyable one, I don't want another car/house/phone to take care of, I don't want to take my ,,game,, in 30 to 30 days to complete their shiddy quest like a real life object, the mechanic it's flawed, they should remove it
Honestly, if they add a strongbox so we can select a small number of items to survive water death, then that would completely solve the whole problem for me. If I haven't played for that long, then I might be looking for a chance to regain everything I once had, but I would really like to have a small selection to say "I have earned these and these are most important to me, I will accept the anxiety of losing everything else".
Single worst concept they've run with so far. Water as a resource? Fine. Water draining during tasks or as a negative consequence? Fine. Water unlocking or locking vendors and gear availablility? fine. Water eventually resetting you to zero if you terminally screw up? Fine. Water being some god forsaken chore demon that drains while we're living our lives, playing other games, being social, etc? No, wrong, sod off. Thats a predatory-as-hell practice that I'd laugh at if i saw it in a mobile phone game. Get it the hell out of this game entirely. No loss whatsoever when your not logged in. Will this mean that there's no mechanic to deflate markets and will lead to certain gigachad players never needing to think about water again? Yeah probably. Who cares. Its a PVE experience and its gruelling and tough enough in the actual raids. This water metagame is peak anti-fun. I'll drop this game the second I get a negative consequence from passive water loss, and this feature will mentally sandbag me every time i think about starting fresh again. Because what the hell is the point if its all doomed to rot again. If they want us to have a way to start from nothing, add some hackneyed prestige system and be done with it.
A lot of people are growing tired of being pressured into treating games as a job. The most common example is limited time battle passes. It works well for high school and some college students but once you have a little more going on in your life it's taxing to keep up.
I hope if they chose to modify their ideas for the game, they add settings for it. I find it unfortunate when the overall experience is changed to serve a particular group. More settings is always better than blanket like it or not changes.
Hi, Have been following this game for a couple of months, love the aesthetics, art style and it seems like something I have not seen before. I share your concerns, I have a FT job, obligations at home, kids etc so dont have a lot of free time. Although I have never played an extraction survival type game before, I was willing to give it a go. I was completely unaware of this mechanic, seems a bit overly excessive to implement as a real world lived mechanic. I may not be able to play for a couple of weeks or even a month, so to completely loose all that outside of the game would make me think twice now about buying this game. Dont have any answers, I just want to enjoy the experience and chill but not wanting to feel anxious when I am not playing as that seems to be counterintuitive as there is so much anxiety in real life.
Before any comments get dropped. I am all for seeing the Devs vision through to the end. I might be nervous about the Water Death Mechanic, but I havn't even gotten my hands into the game yet. I am Eager as hell to test this game out and see how it functions. I don't think there needs to be any major upset about Water Death until we are playing the game.
Those of you who are upset with the mechanic, wait for a content creator like myself to give you the truth of the matter and if it really is a system you should be worried about. Until then. Cheers, I look forward to civil discussions with you all.
there is plenty of games that have similar mechanics and they did just fine. If the devs vision is to have water death mechanic it should be just fine, because i herd that you will be able to have water stored for month and i think they have realy good idea with recovery mechanic from water death with buying from friends innards so you can get same loadout you would in your innard seconds before the water death, im not afraid at all and i think people should not be scared of it specialy go talk about it like they know what they are talking about without even experiencing it first hand
Exactly. All fantastic adds. I appreciate it mate. Look forward to running with you should the chance arise. Cheers.
Also its like Rust or SCUM with offline raids. No one can be on 24/7 and you can log back in to find yourself naked and broke. If you choose to play that game then you know what comes with the territory.
@@mistermugsy also they are adding minigames , maybe we'll be able to gamble for water / equipment with other players
Me and my Helldivers2 / DarkTide40K -friends are exited for Forever Winter, but if we are losing resources when away; this game is a no go for us, no matter any arguments. It's simply not worth our time. We have kids and hobby lives outside of computer gaming. Time is the most precious resource in the world, cause it's constantly running out on all of us, and we don't need a water-resource in a game to do the same. Any hobby better make sure it's worth spending our limited time on it.
If FW don't drop this mechanic like a hot potato we have HD2, DT40K, Baldur's Gate 3 etc to play, where we don't lose resources when away.
Easy fix, don't tick it down when you're offline, decrease how much you get from runs, increase how much is used when you're online. Players should not be forced to play the game because there's a ticking timer that resets their progress if they don't meet it's demands.
I asked for an idea in another comment, but these are great ideas, that I can present after I get to play with it. Thanks mate, cheers!
if water usage continues after I log out? no way I am playing. imagine in tarkov if your fuel was used even when offline? there is a reason why you can just shut of your generator. You don't get crafting but you don't use fuel. it is a good trade off.
@@STLMTB I think that could be good. A way to "shut off" access to the water and let it sit. Stops productions (or whatever Water powers/is used for) but wont tick down when not playing. If you want to keep things running when offline, you just leave it on and it ticks down. That could be a good temporary solution (assuming its easy to implement) while they get the right balance.
@ROFLWAFFLELAWL4 as a guy with limited time, I won't play a game that requires non-stop attention. Those days are gone.
@@STLMTBor like ark survival food reduces time
Having offline mechanics (similar to Elite Dangerous when they announced their fleet carriers) that penalize players who have busy lives can make even a great game feel like work. Games are not meant to be a part-time job. They are meant to be a break from it. I really hope the devs get rid of this. Have it while in game, allow people to stockpile but don't punish people if they have a life to live. I can't stress this enough. I'm 47, have a job, mortgage, shit ton of bills, travel from time to time, have a social life and do play other games. I should not have to suffer (in game) because of this. It quickly removes the fun.
The system in itself is flawed, no game in existance punishes a player for playing/not playing the game, the core fundamentals of the game should replaced (the water system) Not to consider the fact that you costumize your weapon really carefully just to die to an insta kill drone or mech, I believe his such systems are really bad for the game
Anxiety is fun if it's relieved. I believe the problem with water death is that the anxiety never turns to excitement it just stays anxiety. You should feel accomplished when you find water, not like you're inserting a quarter in order to play the game.
Very well said. Cheers mate!
We'll just have to try it out in the end. If I can come out of a raid with like 2-3 days (IRL) of water each run and I can end a daily session focusing on water and come out with like 2-3 weeks of water? That would make me feel pretty relieved lol
The anxiety should stay in game and not spill to RL, having to think about yet another chore. Water death is not a bad concept in of itself, it should stay strictly in-game time.
VERY good point, but that anxiety is what's interesting me right now BEFORE I play it. I might enjoy it, I might not.
@@jansvoboda4293 I partly disagree. A lot of really good games have you thinking about it when you're not playing. Not just for planning, but also having a passive game play aspect while your offline that rewards you later. Farmville proved this idea on a massive scale; and its not the first game to do this.
Part of the perceptual problem is that most games in the last 15 years are overtuned in the extreme habituation direction. Basically to keep you hooked into the game with all your free time, and on a truly daily basis. Theres also a common "toxic positive feedback loop" that uses FOMO to make sure you're logging in daily, doing your daily quests, and popping your daily RNGs. You don't lose anything if you don't do it.... but the sense of "lost opportunity" promotes way more anxiety then having to restart your base after a long hiatus.
If the water timer pauses when you're not playing, its just another currency that you stock pile and doesn't matter after the second or third you passed a minimum threshold. For many survival crafting games, this is known as the Automation Hump. Where in order to prevent you from brute forcing your way up the tech tree, the magnitude of materials needed have to continually increase. To counteract that, the tech tree itself usually unlocks methods to make previously scare resources more abundant for the current input requirement to reach the next tier in the tree. The majority of the time this is some form of automation, or marked increase in farming speed.
There are a decent number of games with "actual time" elements. However, most people don't know about them, due to the more niche genres they're a part of. Aside from Tamagotchi-type games, which are designed around routine attention, theres a whole sub-genre of Empire Builders like Ogame. Ogame runs in actual time, is browser based, and the bulk of the game is passively generating resources, and issuing build/upgrade orders for buildings and ships. The advanced game has you raiding other planets for resources to feed your growing empire. It can take minutes, hours, [and on the very late game] multiple days to execute orders. You check in on your stuff, issue orders, set your clock for when its done, then check back pick the next thing to work on. If it wasn't for the default PvP on most servers, you could leave the game alone for days, and come back to a massive pile of resources to spend on whatever projects you can do with your current step in the Tech Tree. Colonize multiple planets to generate resources faster. Or just raid other planets to get a big influx of resources.
Even if other empires attack you, it can take hours or even a couple of days to reach you, depending on how far apart you are. More than enough time to formulate a response..... Send your resources off world. Consolidate a defense fleet from your other planets. Build more ships if you have the time. Call for help from an ally, and have them send an invasion fleet time perfectly to meet the enemy at their planet, to steal back the stolen resources, and wreak their fleet in the process. Even send salvage ships in a wave after the first one, so scoop up all that raw material left behind from the battle.
Excellent options are there that can both enhance the game, and add depth to the meta game. You just have to be willing to think outside the tiny box WoW has made the rest of the industry fit into for the past 20 years.
If water loss happens in the background all the time so you’re punished for not logging on for a week, people will stop playing.
Water should deplete when you’re logged in and or when you go on raids. I’m a pretty hardcore gamer and I don’t want to take penalties because I go on vacation or play another game or am busy in real life.
Cant argue that. No one should ever feel tethered to something and neglect self care. I appreciate the comment mate, cheers.
@@mistermugsyappreciate the content mate! Love your videos and I’m excited to see the coverage of forever winter when it’s playable.
There is another way to look at it. Players usually returned to Tarkov during wipes and didn't mind grinding their gear from start. Water mechanic is an automatic wipe. Also I found that I enjoyed Battlefield series less, whe Inhave already unlocked all weapons. Will see how it feels when it comes out.
dude... its 80 days as far as i know. not a week. you'll be fine
See, I don't really know, but can't you just play this game in isolated instances?It seems like an extraction shooter, so can't you just play It for 1 day?And then the next day start over?@mistermugsy
I would like to add that I had a personal chat with Miles, the CEO, and he mentioned that the water system is a massive WIP and they are actively working to make it more practical and less punishing for folks who cannot play the game often. They've got plans for it to make it so that water death happens from skill issues instead of time commitment issues. Hope this helps :)
Absolutely helps, and is why I made the video. I am looking to just give a voice to the worried, and I have hopes they will indeed keep themselves opened to changing it should it prove needing change. But I can't wait to get my hands on it and review it. Cheers mate, and thanks!
That’s good to hear. As soon as I heard about resource loss while away, I had flashbacks to Metal Gear: Survive. I really hope the game doesn’t turn out to be like Metal Gear: Survive…
Okay, that's a good thing honestly.
Easy fix to ease concerns - permanent upgrades to reduce loss and temporary freezing/loaning (with a return full or trickle interest)
Still refunding it. What a hare brained idea they included this. They should make mobile games only.
I think a simple solution would be to give players the option to put their game in stasis. No watter loss, but also no offline resource generation either (assuming offline generation or resource sharing will even be a thing).
That is a good question and idea. We are in a holding pattern for a few more days.
Agreed. If water is a source of power that lets continued production of something (craft or research) then having the option to turn it off to prevent water loss but lose that offline production would be a nice alternative. If you know you're hopping on the next day and want the production to continue offline then you leave it on and it consumes water.
Either this or make it all on-line time only in the first place and adjust accordingly. I want consequences of action or inaction in the game, not according to my scheduling of RL.
The system in itself is flawed, no game in existance punishes a player for playing/not playing the game, the core fundamentals of the game should replaced (the water system) Not to consider the fact that you costumize your weapon really carefully just to die to an insta kill drone or mech, I believe his such systems are really bad for the game
@@TheAndreicornel I actually though about how I would design water resource based system.
Water should be a resource rather than constant timer and it should be linked to in game time management.
Basically you would set threshold how many people you invite and it would impact water consumption so bigger community with more perks and unlocks would be more costly in term of daily water supply. If you found you can no longer meet the demands, you could scale it down and there should be no sudden water death.
It should just scale down organically as people would not stay there to die, but when they find water is running out, they would pack their things and go find their fortune elsewhere (they should have some agency and not be like a caged cattle).
The departure could be quite immediate, but they should trickle in over time so you would have to plan ahead and not just scale it in the moment as currently convenient.
This would give certain value to keeping them in over constantly re-adjusting based on momentary utility.
Time ticking would be based on in game actions/missions as scavs need to rest, maintain gear, prepare and plan for next mission and transfer in and out of the target area.
I don't know if I'm unique in this. Probably not, but has anybody else ever lost an save file from a game they love and just will not pick it up again?
It is absolutely demoralizing to have tens twenties twenties hundreds of hours into a game and your save files gone and all your progress is gone and just the thought of getting back into that is depressing.
I fear that this will have the same feeling.
A dev that want's you to feel anxiety about what happens in their PvE game while you are offline is a dev that deserves to fail. I shouldn't feel like I have an obligation to play a game because I don't want to loose my progress when I already have far too much stuff to do. There's already too much shit causing anxiety from day to day in most peoples lives, and putting any mechanic where you have any consequences while away from the game in a already hardcore PvE game is asinine. People play games like this to feel tension in encounters and a rush of adrenaline when things come down to the wire. Not to have the stuff they worked for lost when they decide to take a break from it.
It’s really not a problem 5 hours of gameplay gives me 2 months time to come back. You don’t loose money or gear or xp just have to grind your traders back up
@@TactiGat Dweeb mentality right here.
@@TactiGat Ok. If water is so easy to come by, then why does it even exists to begin with? Its pointless and abundant.
Its not even a gameplay mechanic. Its a system exist to manipulate your time irl. GTFO with that.
If you dont want to play, dont. The water mechanic diesnt force you to play, if you truly dont want to, you won't
@@cavemanbonk8320 ah yes, the "If you don't like the objectively bad design, then don't play it." defense every moron uses. Like seriously just say you want the game to have a short lifespan and stop trying to defend shite practices. Not like it'll bother me, shit eaters can have their shit and eat it.
People are assuming this mechanic is for game play, its not, its for the studio to retain that player count over time. But this only shows the inexperience of the devs, every online game that punishes players for their real world duties are destined to fail, and they have failed. I have played numerous games with various form of offline count down mechanics, whether in the form of tax/rent, resource depletion (as in Forever Winter), or power degradation, all of these games no longer exists. Compared to MANY modern game devs, I do like the team and their direction in Forever Winter, however, if the devs claims to have a game that has the players' interests in mind, they have to walk the talk or else how are they different from predatory devs like Ubisoft, Blizzard, or NetEast? Holding off purchase until this gets fixed.
Well said.
maybe they could add some system allowing people who play a lot to contribute others tank, could reinforce the feeling of needed solidarity for survival
That would be cool, especially since they are allowing us to give weapons to a gift market. Why can’t water work the same. Fantastic idea mate! Cheers!
Insanely good idea.
This is actually something the devs mentioned being in the game already. At the very least the ability to help other scavs with certain resources.
Me and my Helldivers2 & DarkTide40K friends are exited for Forever Winter, but if we are losing resources when away... this game is a no go for us, no matter any arguments. It's simply not worth our time. We have kids and hobby lives outside of computer gaming. Time is the most precious resource in the world, cause it's constantly running out on all of us, and we don't need a water resource in a game to do the same. Any hobby better make sure it's worth spending our limited time on it.
If FW don't drop this mechanic like a hot potato we have HD2, DT40K, Baldur's Gate 3 etc to play, where we don't lose resources when away.
Having consequences for not playing the game for a while as a way to keep players coming back is absolutely not the way to do this. A game needs to rope players back in with what it can do FOR the player if they chose to log back in and play, not with what it will deprive them of if they don't. If I want to load up a raid in forever winter, it should be because I want to experience the exciting and tense gameplay, not because I feel like I'm forced to as some sort of chore to prevent me losing all my gear. If these devs want to keep up their little front of "oh we're not like the rest of those yucky game companies with their underhanded practices", they need to do something about this.
Can’t argue these facts at all. Well said. You’re right they do claim to want to be better than the AAA companies. So when we give criticism we gotta be clear and precise. I hope they are open to change it if it is bad. But for now I wait. Once I get it going I’ll pop feed back on it. Cheers mate, thanks for the comment!
Me and my Helldivers2 & DarkTide40K friends are exited for Forever Winter, but if we are losing resources when away... this game is a no go for us, no matter any arguments. It's simply not worth our time. We have kids and hobby lives outside of computer gaming. Time is the most precious resource in the world, cause it's constantly running out on all of us, and we don't need a water resource in a game to do the same. Any hobby better make sure it's worth spending our limited time on it.
If FW don't drop this mechanic like a hot potato we have HD2, DT40K, Baldur's Gate 3 etc to play, where we don't lose resources when away.
Nah skill issue a single water barrel is 24 hours irl
If any of the FW devs happen to be skimming comments, is saying this:
I can't really play videogames that become a second job. If a videogame, which in the end is a toy for entertainment and escapism from mundane life hits me with "you must play by X time or were going to get rid of your progress/gear/etc" Im just thinking "well I could treat this game like work or I can just work overtime at my real job"
Unless your game can beat $300+ of overtime, please don't ask me to approach it as a chore, cause the game is never gonna win that fight.
yeah, i dont think this is for me. sounds like its just gonna make my entertainment into a job
i just recently came back to warframe after being off it for 2 years, i would have deleted it 5 minutes in if i logged in and it told me because i had been gone so long they just deleted my guns
Fair assessment mate! I hope one day it is on a state you want to try it, but no harm. You’re welcome here regardless. Cheers!
that's my feeling as well. I typically play a game that's hot for a bit and then set it down and come back to it later. After being burned out by so many live service games in recent years, I am intentionally avoiding any game that gives me "fomo" so this water loss mechanic is an easy skip for me personally.
Yep, no chance I'm buying this shit if they keep that god awful idea.
The developers of Icarus did the correct thing - They listened to the community and removed the RL mission timer countdown to it only been a countdown while playing that active mission.
People have RL to contend with and don't want to be forced to play with the threat of character lose or in this case a built up base?
Even having to be forced to sink a couple of hours per week into the game is a slight turn off for me as I have a tendency to cycle through a few games every month or two, to try and reduce burnout
Being a father of two and behind in other obligations hits different when youre a father of two trying to solo dev a game (vids under channel).
I feel you and im here for it
Dads unite mate! Cheers to you and yours. Keep up the hard work.
The biggest issue was after we learned from the closed beta that player were able to get a months worth of water in just a single play session, that it wasn't going to be as brutally hand holding as we feared it would be, the developers said that was more then they expected and they would be adjusting it. It gives this bad taste that the dev are just reactionary developers, look at game developers such as Bungie, Arrowhead, fromsoftware, and so on they don't think about the tweaking they just look at the players and see what get talked about the most by the most popular voices in the community. It make me think the dev will be playing this awful arms race with the player where anytime something the player dose steps just a little bit out side of the imaged bounds ,and is boosted, of what should be happening then here rolls in the nerfs and the buffs to fight the player back into place. Ive been though this disrespectful bs with other game dev enough to not want to waste my time with a new game and new dev team that's is singling that they will act like every other dev in this regard.
You aren’t wrong, my origins here lie with Fatshark and their knee jerk nerfs. It does suck. Arrowhead burned everything to the ground almost, and finally managed to get their head on right.
What I can say is, I’ll happily be your test dummy and cover the game as much as I can to give the most balanced review. Don’t spend your money yet and hang out in the comments whenever you’re looking for updates. You’re welcome here mate. Cheers.
Water is so incredibly easy to obtain. I don't know why so many people are up in arms about this mechanic. I have a pretty busy life, but playing a couple few hours a day I can find a week's worth of water without even making it a priority.
You could always make the water feature an optional feature. Make 2 game modes, Casual: no timed water depletion. Maybe water depleted by each in game day played. So water only drains when you're playing the game.
And survival: the current plan where water always is dropping.
I loved how the devs have handled the game. This is my only criticism. No PVE game is entitled to a persons time and mentality. We choose to play the game the game doesn’t own us.
Players should not be made to feel like a game is a job they have to clock in. Real life job is enough. Hopefully they remove that offline drain and replace it with something more gameplay related. "Losing" a progress by not playing is strange. Rather lose progress from being bad at the game and not finding enough water than from real life calling.
WATER they thinking????
Well played, haha 🤣
I think the bottom line is none of us want to play a game as if it's a chore, we want to relax and unwind from the chores of daily life, not have more chores in game.
A good example is Destiny 2 I play that mostly to do my daily bounties that give materials but then I log off and don't touch it. I don't think that's a healthy aspect for a videogame to have, and the water system is giving me that vibe. The water system is unnecessary for player retention, if that's what they're going for, and just seems like a cumbersome system that adds no benefit.
In foxhole, the chance for enemy to destroy your base is balanced by your efforts always effectively helping the frontline as a whole and the situation being symmetrical: You have a chance of doing the same to the enemy, and that is why both sides keep playing. Also in Foxhole if you lose a base, that means that without your effort, the entire frontline would lose even MORE ground. It was the justified rules of the game that both sides agreed for while playing, where the payoff is that both sides can do the same things to each other. In this game meanwhile, water is an arbitrary timer which the devs can adjust up and down, toggle on and off, and when it comes down to it the end result is that the game actively punishes you if you want to stop playing for any reason at all, and it is completely one-sided. In Foxhole the enemy might stop playing too, the wars are balanced because both teams have players logging in and out at all times. In Forever Winter, it's one-sided and arbitrary, and that is the issue. This mechanic makes the game stop being entertainment and turns it into a job, even if it gets dialed back a bit. I can already imagine everybody who wants to take a break from the game for any reason ever groaning "oh god, time for my monthly water mission..." years down the line, until finally they say "enough is enough" and the fact that they had to say "no" to the game in order to stop being forced by it to keep playing, it will make them not pick the game up ever again more likely than not
Anxiety is exactly the reason i quit playing Warthunder.
Nomatter how good the game is mechanically and it being a all time favorite game I played for 13 full years.
They started pushing events after events.
And slowly cranked it the grind to become borderline insane. Where you had to spend at least 16 hours a day nonstop factor in shitty luck with loosing several games playing if you were to unlock all of the special 1 of a kind event vehicles.
But the grind ans the anxiety of missing out because these vehicles would be worth a lot of money in the internal market system which allowed you to purchase premium stuff.
In the end, I had it, I simply got completely burned out and have never touched the game since.
This feels like the logical extreme of the scummy FOMO psychological tactics some developers have used to rope in players. If this is allowed to stand, how long until the next Ubisoft, EA or Blizzard live service game not only include daily rewards but also wipe part of your progress if you do not regularly return to play and invest into their product ? I believe this may be a horse armor situation, the first breach in the dam holding back a tidal wave of scum and if we don't patch it we'll drown again, just like we all are now with predatory microtransactions.
Punishing players for not playing all the time is what season passes and subscriptions were created for, they don't need to reinvent the wheel.
Fun Dog Studios needs to get this water feedback from the community in their skull and decide real early on whether they want to have a game or none at all, full stop.
I get where the devs are coming from but at the end of the day I just want to sit down after work and relax while playing. And yes hardcore games are also relaxing. But feeling the need to log in just stresses me and I don't need (more)stress in my life.
The game setting, art and concept are all very appealing. The water mechanic on the other hand is a no buy unfortunately.
Simple, theres no reason to punish players for not playing. Game mechanics should not punish us because we have life responsibilities. It is going to severely impact player numbers and overall success. Its totally fine for a game to be hardcore and punish you for bad gameplay, that is something that we can learn, get better at, etc.
Have fun man! Don't burn yourself out with the drama. FAMILY FIRST! You're doing a gret job so far!
Ahhhh, I appreciate that Ersah. I find time. Haha. Cheers!
Make it an option to chose from start:
1 water depletes only online
2 water depletes all the time (bonus drops)
so when someone wants more anxiety he can have it.
Everyone happy.
I would love to see a system where at some point you can send out mercenaries on their own little expedition to hunt down water so you can focus on other things other than collecting more water
Kinda like expeditions from Assassin’s Creed or Monster Hunter. Yeah I can dig that. That’d be a good way to do it.
You don't want people feeling anxiety outside of the game because that contributes to burn out. We have enough things in our life causing anxiety without a video game adding on top of that. There's only so much anxiety a human can handle in their life and the first contributor to get dropped will always be the optional one (i.e. video games).
Seriously, if I'm at work thinking about how my progress is gone because I had to take an extra shift I'm just going to go home and demand a refund.
I work IRL.
I have a job that give me tiny fractions of free time to relax before I have to head to bed. -My work doesn't exactly allow for being a bit sleepy. Considering if I screw up, up to 60 person can die in a tragic accident.-
I want to enjoy the Forever Winter, but I also want to be able to enjoy other games from time to time.
Not get stuck playing one and only one game in fear of losing my stash.
Yeah I will die, yeah the game is supposed to be hardcore. But no game should be stressfull OUTSIDE of it.
Offline water loss is at best a novelty that will lose any and all enjoyment the second something happens outside the players control and keeps them from playing. A mechanic like this seems like a shortcut to tension that this game may not need to take. Unless the devs are set on giving ppl the same vibes as forgetting to feed their tomagatchi?
Games are something you spend time on when you have your free time. You play it when you have time for it lol. If they introduce offline generation and depletion of resources, that will irritate the players more than excite them. Who remembers the time when they're so obsessed on their Clash of Clans? No one has the time for that kind of game if its not on mobile since most players are working members of society.
I can't say I'm the biggest fan of it myself. Rather than tying it to real time it would be better if it were tied to play time. That way the game never becomes homework that I have to come back to in order to maintain my progress.
Modders will probably figure out how to make the water system much less punishing or just out right remove it
Civil discussions? On the internet? Inconceivable!
Though I will say, the ai pathing needs some work. Often times it looks like they’re going one way, then they backtrack less than five seconds later. Makes it very difficult to even get around them. But I’m sure that will be ironed out too.
Oh, I’ll curate, lol. Oh yeah, a lot of movement looks janky and the AI does get stuck on its pathing as I have seen. As long as people give feedback that explains what is happening, where, etc, it’ll get fixed.
@@mistermugsy feedback is useful of course, though it seems people really like to bandy opinions with facts and insults. Often times, It’s tough to discern which is which among these three. Sometimes the civil feedback gets drowned by a very large vocal section. Seen it in warhammer, Star Wars and other franchises. Yikes is all I can say.
100%
He asks to much of us...
I ask of thee, only what I ask of myself. Haha cheers lads!
The running water timer reminds me of Icarus at release. They did a running offline timer for a mission that was a problem for the "I have a life" crowd. After about a year, they let people run their games locally, so the timer only ran when their game was active. I was very happy when they changed that, and the player base grew a ton from having happy people talking about their game. They even added the mission boards, so people didn't have to keep starting new bases. There was a just doing enough mentality, when it was all going to get burned down. That mechanic was great for some, but awful for many.
The fact that the devs have married themselves to such a poorly conceived concept has stripped me of all the excitement I initially felt when I first seen this game.
This feels like the same bullshit mechanic Arma 2 Epoch modded servers had back in 2012/2014 with the safes. You had to log in every 15 days, open every single safe you had, otherwise they would automatically unlock. Gone are the days where I would have the patience to log in, open 50 safes for 20-30 minutes, and log out.
If this game has a mechanic anywhere similar to this, it's not getting my money.
Yeah, the water mechanic is a huge turn off for me. I work 60 plus hrs a week. If this is implemented then I'm not the targeted audience. Which is fine, I want this game to succeed.
What do you for a living? That’s a lot of work
I love hardcore games. I played eve for years , i played mortal online , i play tarkov , I'm no stranger from hardcore games .
None of them kill me while I'm offline and use up my gatherer recource . None of them ! And they are the most hardcore games a person can play .
Bottom line .. I'm not ok with offline degridation of any kind . This game speaks to me on so many levels. I was 100% going to buy it . I will not play a game that does this to me . I will not.
Simply don’t play is a valid option. But in this case, it does need some rework. State of Decay has a similar system, but it doesn’t have the offline drain, and yet I still wanted to come back to it. Good times.
Not buying this game if it has real time penalties, sometimes I put a game down for a month or more before coming back. My work has a schedule I have to follow, my videogames should NOT.
Man, I'm reconsidering buying it if it's kept mandatory.
My issue is that it preys on the FOMO of players. It is also pretentious to want your game to alter the thinking of people outside of their playtime. This is not their role. And as the first steam comment you showed very well stated, this is not hardcore, just annoying and I'd add manipulative. To me it is a deal breaker and a red flag about the dev team's way of thinking.
I'll wait to see how it turned out, but i'm not playing the beta at launch as i had planned to do before this debacle.
Hey no worries mate. I think it is a good call to hold off for now. Having a game that preys on timer mechanics like this rubs me the wrong way too. But I’m still happy to be a test dummy for others. It sucks being told they want you to feel anxious, cause that is a shitty feeling when it comes from fear of constant loss. However when it comes from the thought eagerness to get back in the fight totally different. At least I think so. Cheers mate, I look forward to informing you bout it.
Didn't they make a video bashing on AAAs about manipulative practices? Pretty hypocritical, now that they even considered having this kind of mechanic in-game...even if it's not after our money outright.
Very well said. A game is a service provided to the customer, it is entertainment. It is not a tool or piece of equipment that requires regular maintenence. Players, outside of voluntary improvement and eventually mastery of utilising the game mechanics, should not be expected to alter their behaviour to enjoy the game. Success in a game should be rewarded to players who improve at playing it, not those who improve at scheduling their timetables around playing it.
Same. I was gonna grab it on release of beta, now I won’t.
Ive been hyped for this game for so long now. It looks awesome and like exactly what ive been looking for. But this water mechanic is genuinely taking ALL the wind out my sails. I hate time mechanics. I stopped playing destiny 2 because they took away storylines and such. I stopped playing other games due to the offline timers. I refuse to play games with timed battlepasses regularly. I only play games that either dont care about you logging in and playing or that reward you for logging in and playing repeatedly.
Im but a fly, so give me the honey, fun dog.
Your gear and all being reset because you didn't have time to play this week. Is crazy.. they are gonna kill thier own game.
I've been waiting for years for this and that's already made me feel like I don't wanna play this.
The issue is the countdown ticking down when you're offline. To be fair tho a 30 day window looks pretty generous, even if youre doing 2 or 3 raids a weeks
From what I understand and heard in the Q/A, the water death will have, at the bare minimum, a month of real-life time, with options to increase it (they were looking into systems for that.) From what I saw from someone playing Beta, it was an 80 day cap- and the Dev's did say they saw people during beta hitting the water cap (30 days or 80) within a single day of playing.
Honestly, I think it's a decent mechanic- and I know I'm probably in the minority. I love survival/colony sims- so I'd even welcome mechanics of needing to supply your Innard with other things such as Meds/Food/Moral-needed items, constantly needing to keep your little settlement alive as certain events drain key resources- with a key exception.
That ONLY would work as long as the timer is long enough to not aggressively punish offline play, as you said. Be it donation systems, a manual "pause" option, or higher-level systems that generate water/other items (as you said). I think it's a welcome change compared to other mechanics.
Don’t fret bout being in the minority! I also like the survival aspect, put a dumb amount of hours in Rimworld, and State of Decay. So I get it. While I hope they don’t go too buck wild without proper support systems, I hope they are open to feedback. Cheers mate!
@@mistermugsy I completely agree- there's that fine balance to be struck which other games have gone far too aggressive with. See you in the wasteland!
Yeah I'm willing to at least try it out first before looking for paint points.
That need of keeping supplies up adds to the immersion. Yes its a tedious and likely annoying part of immersion, but I kind of like the idea. I mean even in games like Tarkov or BRs like Fortnite you can often see numbers drop towards the end of a season/wipe cycle because everyone is already tapped out on progress.
I come back to Warframe every major update but because I'm completely caught up and in the end game, I get maybe like 10 hours of gameplay and then I'm basically done. This is the same for most live service games. So I see this water as something that I have to come back to. It's a reason to log back in even if I'm progressed in other areas.
@@ROFLWAFFLELAWL4 Precisely. I like the idea of needing to have some sort of upkeep- even a fairly complex system of upkeep. But there has to be that balance between fun immersion and struggle to survive, vs "oh great, we need to grind for supplies." Thus far though, I think the Devs have a good idea.
I’m in the minority as well I guess. It sounds like a fair mechanic. Play 1 day, get 30 days of water.
I’ve been playing almost exclusively WoW for 19 years and I’m a lazy player. If you don’t like the survival aspect then don’t play a survival genere. Period.
This is the first I heard of the offline portion of this mechanic. I thought the water was just an added consequence related to dying in missions.
Sadly no. But we dont have the game yet, so just gotta hold feedback till we get our hands on it.
@mistermugsy according to steam, the last game I played with a daily log-in reward that reset after a single missed day was August, 2018. The feeling of losing that much progress removed any motivation to play any game that has such a mechanic.
Hey, I fully understand that. No one can say you aren’t right to feel that. What I will say is once I am able to put a full review into the Water Death mechanic, I hope it gives people a proper answer. I said in the video, I’ll be the test dummy, cause I enjoy it. So you’re welcome here regardless of what you decide. Cheers mate.
@@mistermugsy there's also the question of how quick it is to recover from being offline for "too" long. A lot of unknowns at this point, plus, a lot can change during EA :)
I legit thought I was the only one complaining about this issue, it's good to hear that the community spoke up!
99.9% this works with the system time.
Before running the game, turn off the internet connection and change your PC/Console time a few hours after your last session.
I am pretty sure this is how it works since without a connection the game can't phone back home to now what day and time it is.
Remember that this will work only if you play offline....
Just because this game is a job for the devs, doesn't mean it should be a job for players also. This is doa if they make decisions like these. The game is niche as fuck anyway, they might wanna reconsider their position.
It's supposed to be anti-shooter, I don't think defending your base is fitting for the artistic purpose of the game
Because people don't like feeling forced to play a game, its the reason battle passes in many ways have completely ruined gaming, they make you feel like you HAVE to play the game when you don't, its psychologically manipulative and it makes the game feel more like a job than a fun game.
Destiny 2 is the perfect example of this feeling, they made you feel like you had to play the game constantly to finish the battle pass and get many limited time items and guess what? After their best expansion most players left permanently, many reasons why but you know one of the ones i saw the most? People felt freer once they just left the game permanently, they didn't feel like they were enslaved by the game, nobody likes this except a very niche small section of players, usually ones who are gonna no life the game anyway.
Unfortunately that's a very small section so i wouldn't recommend trying to focus on that small part of the player base.
The devs said in one of the Q&A vids on their discord that the water mechanic is something they're re-evaluating. So they are aware it's not ideal as it is. I agree with the other comments that it should work similar to the fuel in Tarkov where you can shut it off before you log out and not lose anything, but people who leave it on may gain something.... that seems fair
Yeah this singlehandedly took this game from Day One Must Have to Will Wait Till Sale. Not a fan of anything that punishes you for not playing. It's a game that I'm spending my money on, if you're going to punish me for when I choose to play/not play, I will save my money. Too bad.
They could really use the in game time as a clock instead of making it off line. I get why every game now a days wants to include something to make the players get back to the game but devs should do that by bringing new content, not a punishing system that they built into the game just so we have to play the game 24/7.
Don't get why there can't just be an option to turn it off or on depending on player preference
This is why games have difficulty sliders
It's a predatory anti consumer mechanic that's there to force people to log into the game. There is no reason for it to not be optional. It doesn't matter how long you have, what matters is that the game will delete your progress if you don't log in. Enough with the hype cope. These devs PR themselves as pro consumer. This mechanic shows the opposite.
So, is it to create anxiety, or is it to clear the servers of people that aren't playing anymore? It seams more like the latter, but that makes the devs seem a little dishonest
The fact that I've seen people defending it because "oh it's a hardcover game" is so stupid. Forcing you to play a game or you lose all your stuff isn't difficulty, it's stupid.
I feel like it being a PVE game makes the water not needed. It makes it to where you HAVE to play. I want to be able to pick up and put down a game. Not have a new job. At the very least, it shouldn’t tick down when your not online/playing.
Wow, I've never had my hype die faster, literally 100% full interest in the game to 0 in five seconds.
I have a life, your game shouldn't be a second job.
Well, the game isn't here yet, and the devs seem open to feedback, so the system has room to change. As I said, I'll test dummy it and we'll see from there. Cheers.
If youre even remotely above room temp iq, getting enough water is not the massive issue it seems like at first glance, I highly recommend at least giving it a second look jow that its out
@@cavemanbonk8320 I don't give a shit about how hard it is to aquire, I can grind if I want to, but if I want to take a break I don't want to lose my progress;
I did buy it, I played it for a little under an hour and then refunded it because the only thing I thought about the entire time I played was that "Nothing I do means anything and my progress is irrelevant the second I decide to take a break and play something else", I can't even remember what the tutorial even was I was so disinterested, it was legitimately the least amount of fun I've ever had playing a videogame in my entire life. Having teeth pulled is a more enjoyable experience.
@@GenericProtagonist7 if you were so sure it wasn't for you, why did you waste your time then, I really don't get it
@@cavemanbonk8320 Because everyone kept telling me to try it, you literally told me to try it in your post, wtf is your problem?
The game *is* for me, it's literally what I've been dreaming of since I was a little kid playing the mission 'Personal War' from Command & Conquer which shares a similar 'one grunt in the midst of a war' feel, but then they completely ruined it with an unnecessary feature that destroys all of your progress if you ever *dare* not come crawling back.
So much potential in this game. It should be a challenge, entertainment.
Not work.
I really like the potential of this game. As a parent I don't get a whole lot of time for gaming and I totally agree that anxiety while playing is fine, but offline anxiety is a no-go. That's not fun. I will give the devs the benefit of the doubt though in coming up with a viable solution, as I do think they genuinely care about their audience and community good will.
Parents unite! I hope so too, I’m willing to govern a lot of good will, but they have to be open to making changes too. Cheers mate!
That Red Dead Redemption story man, I loved doing that hold out in the fort against NPCs and players, such good memories just came rushing back.
It was good times mate! I loved those days, just having genuine excitement, no real responsibilities, just being a kid. Cheers!
Someone give this man a medal, i will spread your video thru all people i know in the game, great analogy, great ideas.
I appreciate the kind words mate. Happy to have you here, cheers!
They could add a mechanic
lets call it "rain collector" what it does is it locks your Water Collection while offline however it does nothing while online
so you lose water while playing but not while your busy for a week or two
make it a Mid-Tier upgrade too to reward activly playing
BUT
in return because you now have so much excess water items are 20% more expensive
turning off the water collector returns to regular pricing
but also turns water loss while offline back on
turning on and off has a 48 timer inbetween so - when you turn them on you cant turn them off for 2 days and vise versa
at the same time of course infrom players "hey unless you have the rain collector THIS WILL HAPPEN be awear of that"
We have a tamogochi extracter shooter now? Nice
Just make the system opt in and give bonuses to people who opt in.
Seems like a negative gameplay incentive most games try to positively incentivize you to play with login rewards and daily quests etc.
wait, so this game has a loot collection mechanic like in Tarkov. if you die, you lose everything you took with you and you have to keep an eye on your hydration because you will die if you take a long break from the game. and also the hardware requirement is RTX 20XX, who is this game for?
ikona Zweryfikowane przez społeczność
With the first RedDead Redemption, my friend and I went into a town and I took the tallest building with the best view in a town he liked.
He would bait players into coming towards the town and I would snipe them, if they got past me, he was ambushing anyone coming into the town... but it was just us two.
This is how we've played many games, I snipe and he'd bait them into a territory and ambush who I didn't kill off first.
☕🐝🇺🇸
I won't buy the game if they implement this.
I have already experience this mechanic with State of Decay and I HATED it with a passion.
Coming after a week of work only to find my base without supplies and survivors missing.
This is not fun at all for people that can't log in every single day.
I seriously hope the devs reconsider this.
Hey I just wanted to say keep doing what you're doing because this is the first video I found of yours but I truly enjoyed it. You are in-depth you're open and honest with your community about your IRL life but you also get so in-depth about your hypothesis on games and you also deliver truth with no BS on the back end and your content creator that literally is willing to take the pocketbook hit AKA money to make sure that something is fun before their Community buys it that is epic. thank you and I hope I see you on the SCAV field! ❤😊 .....Sir I will like and follow till the end STAY BLESSED NOT STRESSED
This mechanic just leads into more players using cheats, and I cant blame them for it. Was out of town for a week. Ran out of water. Well back to square one for you. Well they can boot up some cheats and get back what they lost in minutes. Its a sad state where someone would need to use cheats to compensate for poor mechanics.
Any game that needs a fomo mechanic to keep a player playing is a red flag. Will keep an eye on the game and see how it all plays out.
That wont add anxiety or consequence. Only burnout and annoyance. I don't want another chore or job mechanic straight from some of the WORST AAA companies and GACHA games.
It's bullshit and the reasoning is bullshit. It needs to be removed entirely or heavily reworked to ONLY DRAIN WHILE PLAYING.
DON'T force me to play more to not lose progress. I will leave the game permanently within the first month or not even purchase in the first place because that's an INSANE burnout issue.
Loss of opportunity is better than loss of what I already have.
Off topic, but I'm 100% there with you on "Dad games" I got a little time at night and random throughout the week to play. Coop and solo games are so nice.
Let the water consume while off-line up to a low Point that allows you to survive if you Take a high risk high reward mission.
Not a bad idea. Maybe, if that mission is lost you suffer water death. A good risk vs reward. What do you think? Cheers.
@@mistermugsy, that is the Best trade off. Keeps pressure(pun intended) and doesn't allows you to skirt the horrible reality of war; the war and the people doesn't care about you, your needs or beliefs, it only cares about taking your life.
in 3 days im already at 50 days, I didnt no life it but only started playing on the weekend when I was done with work Friday. in all honesty its not a big deal, you can literally farm water like crazy, it would take absolute negligence to the highest degree to the game to loss your water and all your gear, if I stopped playing now id be good till the 5th of November, if I maxed it out to 55 jugs of water which is the same as 55 days it would take me till the 10th of November, if I buy the extra water storage lvl 2 upgrade id buy an extra 10 days, and would be good till the 15th of November. Trust me its not a big deal. idk why people are freaking out you can take literally a months long break run one good run and complete two missions on the same map and carry 3 water jugs on your back and make up more than a weeks worth of not playing.
Wait and see, if it sucks im sure they will change, if its not bad then it will stay. The game isnt even out yet.
You're right, we do need to wait. But it is still valuable to see what it is that is worry a lot of people who might play the game. I'm eager to test it regardless of how I feel. It is the only real way you know what it is about. Cheers
So, comment is a little late, and anyone reading this might know by now, but you don't just "pick up more water", you have a large item slot in your rig to carry 1 tub of water.
It's not even that scarce in most runs - sometimes I'll pass over like 6 or so tubs of water - but it takes time to build up enough water to get the rig merchant available, and the money to afford a bigger rig that has more large slots. The rigs you can use also depend on which character you play, and how much you spec'd into their ability to use better rigs, thus it is a big time, credit, and effort investment to get to the point you are able to "just go in and pick up a shitload of water", which is a thing most people overlook when they say "it's fine/not hard to get water/etc" - they aren't considering the people who cannot no-life speedrun the game for a day or 2 to get to that point where they can just not worry about it
Oh man, the game wants to pressure me to keep playing... continuously or else we lose all our progress? That'll be a deal breaker. "Anxiety and excitement" isn't what I really look for in a game and it already looked like it was gonna be stressful.
I feel you Ace. I’m a sucker for in game anxiety but strictly in game. Too old and too busy for external haha. But I hope they are open to change and improve it. Cheers mate!
It's hedging I to live service territory which seems counter to the philosophy behind their studio.
totally unrelated, but i can somehow see marauders and the forever winter sharing a universe. dunno if i could put it to words but my brain thinks it
Lol, never got around to marauders, always seemed like it’d have done better as PvE
@@mistermugsy ill be honest its not very good, or i just suck
😂
I imagine the Marauders'sscavs basically being stranded in spaces, while the forever winter's scavs are stuck in Earth.
Basically, kinda of a Lose-lose scenario for all party lol
@@the-dripbine Marauders is ok. The game is definitely not solo friendly. I only put 20 hours into it, but 95% of my raids failed because I'd get ganked by a trio group.
The point of a game is for it not to fall apart, the game was a break away from the real world, that is there permanently, you don't lose your progres like a car, a house a phone, that's the point of a game, to escape reality into a more enjoyable one, I don't want another car/house/phone to take care of, I don't want to take my ,,game,, in 30 to 30 days to complete their shiddy quest like a real life object, the mechanic it's flawed, they should remove it
Wait.. it just came to me, exo pilot from the trailer and the Scavgirl are the same person?
Don’t know, but it would be a great piece of storytelling to have the cinematics be the lead up to our playing the game!
jepp one of the charakter
Honestly, if they add a strongbox so we can select a small number of items to survive water death, then that would completely solve the whole problem for me. If I haven't played for that long, then I might be looking for a chance to regain everything I once had, but I would really like to have a small selection to say "I have earned these and these are most important to me, I will accept the anxiety of losing everything else".
Single worst concept they've run with so far. Water as a resource? Fine. Water draining during tasks or as a negative consequence? Fine. Water unlocking or locking vendors and gear availablility? fine. Water eventually resetting you to zero if you terminally screw up? Fine. Water being some god forsaken chore demon that drains while we're living our lives, playing other games, being social, etc? No, wrong, sod off. Thats a predatory-as-hell practice that I'd laugh at if i saw it in a mobile phone game. Get it the hell out of this game entirely. No loss whatsoever when your not logged in. Will this mean that there's no mechanic to deflate markets and will lead to certain gigachad players never needing to think about water again? Yeah probably. Who cares. Its a PVE experience and its gruelling and tough enough in the actual raids. This water metagame is peak anti-fun. I'll drop this game the second I get a negative consequence from passive water loss, and this feature will mentally sandbag me every time i think about starting fresh again. Because what the hell is the point if its all doomed to rot again.
If they want us to have a way to start from nothing, add some hackneyed prestige system and be done with it.
Is there any benefit you gain constantly over time to balance it justify this, or is it just tending a Tomagotchi?
A lot of people are growing tired of being pressured into treating games as a job. The most common example is limited time battle passes. It works well for high school and some college students but once you have a little more going on in your life it's taxing to keep up.
I hope if they chose to modify their ideas for the game, they add settings for it. I find it unfortunate when the overall experience is changed to serve a particular group. More settings is always better than blanket like it or not changes.
Hi, Have been following this game for a couple of months, love the aesthetics, art style and it seems like something I have not seen before. I share your concerns, I have a FT job, obligations at home, kids etc so dont have a lot of free time. Although I have never played an extraction survival type game before, I was willing to give it a go. I was completely unaware of this mechanic, seems a bit overly excessive to implement as a real world lived mechanic. I may not be able to play for a couple of weeks or even a month, so to completely loose all that outside of the game would make me think twice now about buying this game. Dont have any answers, I just want to enjoy the experience and chill but not wanting to feel anxious when I am not playing as that seems to be counterintuitive as there is so much anxiety in real life.