@@KernelFault When I tried to make it visible, the only way it would do that was by making it a "Premier." What the meant was that it would play the video as if it is a live session with chat box on top right. Now that it has done that, it seems to work like any other video.
They are cryogenically frozen and woven by hand by virgins (oh wait, I did a material analysis and they are just $5 IKEA Somoza towels with the tag removed.
Audiophile towels? I want the high end Mike Lindell long staple Shirpur cotton fibers from Giza ... version. I've A/B'd Pima cotton vs. Giza cotton over and over ... for over 18 months. Still, I cannot discern a difference; - both are quite absorbent - both lack transparency During the towel drop testing, peaks and valleys were easily resolved, yet focus was hard to maintain. 35yrs of wedded bliss to my lab assistant ... here's to 35 more.
Amir, take a leaf out of Danny’s book. “Swap the cheesy binding posts for tube connectors. Change the iron core inductors for air core inductors. Replace the electrolytic capacitors with pollycaps. Upgrade the wiring to a higher gauge and line the cabinet with low res”. Then send the parts out to the customer and charge him almost the original cost of the speaker and call it an upgrade. It works for him!
I stopped watching this guy. Every speaker is wrong and needs improvement, except his own! Mind you adding new binding posts does make all the difference (to his profits)
Excellent in depth review. Meticulous, thorough, Sherlock Holmes-like investigation. Your efforts are, I'm sure, much appreciated by all 'audio truth seekers'.
Outstanding Video Amir. Your talent of presenting in this format is superb. Match this to your depth and breadth of Audio Engineering experience and your are in a league of your own here. Very high value video. Keep on Teaching. It’s what you were born to do.
Almost fifteen years ago I built the (only) GR kit for @$100 and made my own cabinets. Back then; D.R. stated he had bought overstocked drivers in bulk from India and incorporated them in this design. I was never impressed by them and preferred my Overnight Sensations and every other kit I ever built. Years later I see GR are still using the same overstocked drivers. I realize everyone is trying to make a living and how they do it is their business. My fix is to ignore anything from D.R. and GR.
I'm eternally grateful that I didn't succumb to temptation and buy a different 2 way kit from Danny. I did get a quote for delivery to UK and decided against it. So, for those who have this strange speaker I offer advice from The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy - You'd better know where your towel is ! Thanks for these detailed and insightful analyses.
Very happy to see someone evaluating the work of a delusional amateur designer. I can’t fathom why someone in their right mind would buy this over a similarly priced powered monitor from Adam/JBL/RCF/Kali/Dynaudio.
Don't give amateur designers a bad name! Many amateurs design better products than are commercially feasible because of cost restrictions. Danny goes the other way but still rarely significantly improves a product, usually trading a lot of sensitivity for a little improvement in on axis frequency response only. This is often paid for in other areas, like off axis. You really can't beat a Klippel plot to tell most of the story.
Great. Amir is gonna start selling "audiophile terry cloth and turkish linen towels' : "WOW a entire veil was lifted! The back ground was darker!! The soundstage was wider and deeper...incredible details like I never heard before. Even my wife/cat/dog/kid/girlfriend said how amazing it sounded now!" $4000 for gold tread, $9000 for platinum.
@@AudioScienceReview Which I am upset about by the way. There's no way Danny has the competence to do things better than the professional speaker companies can. What are the chances that B&W, Dynaudio, Kef, Focal, Revel have all got it wrong and only Danny has got it right? What secret knowledge does Danny have that enables him to design a correct speaker that eludes every other speaker company?!
These are the speakers that used to reel me in before I learnt about measurements. They look so fantastic, they must sound fantastic too! All the audiophoolary nonsense can't stand up to measurements. I'm very happy that prior to seeing measurements all my system is full of Kef R300/100 series. They ended up measuring well
These drivers can be used in both configurations. I have them in a full OB design and they measure and sound fantastic. The problem appears to be in the crossover design.
that's insulting to amateur designers. Most DIY speaker enthusiasts(myself included) would never produce a speaker like that and say yeah sounds good to me.
Danny shows measurements of many speakers that he says are cheesy and bad, but his upgrades can't be measured but you can hear the difference. Oh the upgrades cost more than the speaker itself.
Yeh, I don't know how defends that with a straight face. He makes mods to speakers and ships them without listening. Yet with mods, he says you listen but don't measure.
As if we needed more proof Danny R is a quack and charlatan! This would be hilarious if it weren't for people spending good money for a broken product.
Danny has many excellent products. I’ll agree this is a problem he needs to look at and address, if it’s the same issue with his current kit, but to whitewash all of his stuff with the same assessment shows a high level of immaturity and ignorance.
@@jon1810 Danny still sells snake oil cables and refuses repeatedly to acknowledge faulty speaker designs he's made. I'm not saying he's never made decent product; selling faulty and scammy products does justify my opinion of him as a charlatan.
the problem with hifi companies is that many of them come from one „guru“ type hobbyist that turns professional by selling their design and have this trial and error type of mentality. Investing in knowlege and measurement systems that let you understand what you design would require work that most them them could not manage to do. (FEM analysis e.g.). So they keep „designing by ear“ and fool themselves and the world by a ton of marketing.
Hi Amir, thanks for another great review. I was very interested as I bought the X-Statik speakers as a kit and built them during the Covid lockdown. They are wonderful speakers, in my opinion, with some of the best imaging and detail I have experienced. That said, I use them with twin subs and use a bass equalization system so I likely don't have the low-end issue you showed here. I didn't opt for any of Danny's extras (tube connectors etc.) either.
@@AudioScienceReview Yes, agreed the less EQ that has to be done the better. That said, there seems to be a trend of using computational power to refine and enhance audio and photographic equipment. Most lenses come with correction profiles and looking at images "straight out of the lens" can be disappointing. I used Dirac room correction on these speakers and found that it didn't make that much difference (no bass correction) but I have heard it make a large improvement in other speakers. Perhaps you could do a video that discusses the benefits and pitfalls of this kind of technology? You seem well suited to address something like this. Apologies if you have done this already.
Flip the speaker over and lay it on its top, add a high pass crossover/cutoff at 300hz. Seriously though, it's a very odd design..I've never seen anything like it. After seeing this review it's no wonder we don't normally see any enclosure/designs like this.. as mentioned. Monster enclosure though. Great review 👍
I'd be curious to know if its the driver itself or the crossover so it would be great to test the driver by itself. What is the value of that red electrolytic capacitor? I wonder if it is connected to that ferrite-core inductor and that's creating a high-Q resonance.
He just post an obfuscated video where he never acknowledged the problem. But seems like what he has done is pull the response of the mid-woofers lower. That may fill the gap some but the resonant peak will remain. He has no anechoic measurements to show response below 200 Hz so it is all guessing until someone like me tests them again.
Amir, Selling a kit without measurements, or not having them on file, Danny has No Excuse ! For the money, I expect a schematic diagram and test measurements. Thanks for the video and all the best.
There is this guy on the internet. He designs crossovers for speakers which have problems. Maybe he should have a look at this flawed speaker. I forgot his name. I think it starts with D...
Your reviews have helped me make choices, thank you :) Question: have you lived with a real piano, or other acoustic instrument in frequent use? I have many electronic instruments, from various eras, including "state of the art", like the Osmose. (Not rich, just old) None can remotely compare to my real upright piano, in the same room, or to a sax, violin, conga, lute etc. I wonder how this fundamental truth can best be measured? You can't share the richness, like a recording, outside the space. Modern gear worship--I'm guilty, belies the weakness of electronic reproduction, even the most expensive. Not to mention the health benefits, compared to passive listening, of trying to play instruments. Might be an interesting subject for a video, with your technical knowledge.
I am glad you like my reviews. I have a decent Kawai electronic piano (upright). As you say, it doesn't hold a candle to the acoustic piano my teach has. Every time I go to my lesson the first keystroke startles me in how good it sounds compared to my $6,000 electronic one. Real instruments create such an expansive soundfield that it is difficult to capture and present.
Great video, thank you. Danny prides himself on measurements, for him to not have measurements or say he's going to get to them is BS. He knows the measurements are shit and that's why you don't/won't see them...very disengenuous, IMO. Thanks again.
@@jon1810 -- Amir is a credentialed engineer with decades of experience who owns SOTA measurement gear and knows who to use it. Danny Richie is an DIY audio hobbyist with a business degree who fancies himself a self-taught/self-styled speaker designer -- he's the "R" is "GR-Research," his former partner, an actual engineer, was the "G." I know who to trust -- who you choose to trust is your call and I wish you well of it
He does that all the time. Go checkout the website. In any case, Danny does not present himself as an amateur but as an expert smarter than the engineers working at highly regarded brands, selling “upgraded” crossovers etc for speakers made by many brands that are often as expensive as the speakers themselves, and rely on lots of snake oil. So his outfit is fair game.
Let's also not pretend that Danny is actually ''fixing'' the speakers made by big name companies that people send to him. Why can't B&W, Dynaudio, KEF, Focal and Wilson audio design their crossovers the way Danny modifies them? What special methods or knowledge does Danny have that they dont!!
interestingly enuf, it seems that Elac did what you suggested when they brought out their Debut Reference line. Similar mods were made to the speakers that DR suggested when he worked on the Debut line. Of course, we don't know if Elac even saw his suggestions.
@@great100m Danny finds almost every speaker he tests to be wrong. How likely is it that B&W, Dynaudio, KEF and Focal are all wrong and he's right? Its more likely hes the one thats wrong. Danny cant dominate the marketplace like those big companies can which is why all he can do is criticise them. He does not have the resources or equipment like the other big name companies do. The best companies also employ people that have degrees in relevant fields such as acoustics or physics. Danny is just a hobbyist. There are lots of hobbyists that do speaker design. Danny is not special in any way. He has no respect within the speaker industry or even the DIY community. He's not a misunderstood genius.
I've had my X-Statik, X-Voce and X-LS Encore with Velodyne subwoofer setup since 2009. I love them and everyone who has watched movies and listened to music on this setup have enjoyed them as well. To each their own, but I've never regretted my purchase.
In a response to jays ayagis video on dannys measurements didnt danny say he doesn't even measure bass because of the issues of splicing in after the fact?
Years ago I watched a video from GR Research and within minutes I knew something was off. I didn’t have to know how to read his measurements and I didn’t have to know how to build speakers to know that I was watching a grifter at work. I finished watching the video and thought to myself I wonder how many people fall for his nonsense. Apparently a lot. I’m just not one of them.
that’s the oddest looking freq chart i’ve seen ever. and i’ve been studying this quite a lot for a couple yrs. nothing looks like that quite wow my instinct ably that guy was off the bat accurate. his earth response is flat but frequencies, hmmm
Good review! What I want to see next is a center speaker with good values according to your measurements. That way we can compare this bad speaker with a good one.
Center speakers seem to be more of a marketing attempt than delivering performance. That dual mid-woofer and tweeter combo catches people's eyes and sales are made. Good designs do exist in the form of 3-way speakers which solves the directivity issue. You can seen an example of one in my own Revel C52: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/revel-c52-speaker-review-and-measurements.10934/
@@AudioScienceReview I'll take a look. I have a center channel and can say I haven't been that impressed by it. It lacks punch and is highly directional, but at least it's clear in the midrange and does add to the overall sound mix.
@@jon1810 So Amir went out of his way to do it wrong on purpose to report on a product where he also include evidence that this is a problem with his other similar speaker? Wow....
@@jon1810 GR research is the only tester/reviewer/ modifier (whatever he calls himself) I know who leaves out everything below 200hz. And I go back to Julian Hirsch from the 1970’s! The bass response of speakers is what separates the good the bad and the ugly. Regardless of Danny’s excuse not testing speakers below 200hz is tantamount to heresy.
@@Carl-bd1rfI can rattle off several, and some really big names, that I know of personally. Without a properly designed anechoic chamber, which costs huge bucks, or properly done outdoor ground-plane measurements, you are not able to accurately represent the response of the speaker below 200-300 hz. The room matters most of all in the range anyway, and a huge majority of music listeners have subpar rooms...so does it really matter? Thanks.
@@jon1810 Yes it matters the most. If you know the sound characteristics of the room you’re measuring a speaker in then you simply compensate for it! It’s not brain surgery. Anyone not measuring a speakers performance below 200 hz is being disingenuous and certainly cannot be taken seriously as a speaker reviewer or modifier. If you have a speaker that is ruler flat from 200 to 20k yet has 10db or more swings below 200 hz and drops off the chart say below 50 hz you have crap for sound irregardless of your 200 to 20k flatness. If Danny hasn’t made acoustic adjustments in his listening room to compensate for bass irregularities then everything he does is for naught. He knows the bass response of his room therefor he has no excuse not to measure speakers below 200 hz.
I don't mind Richie Dannys, I mean the guy is faster than The Flash and has a smooth Texas drawl. It's his henchman and Pay4Play aficionado, Ronaldo, at Knew Record Day who bugs me. If you are critical at all he will ban you from commenting on his channel
The bass speakers have a serious design problem no2 Danny never measures below 200 hertzs that speaker could be improved on but was not by him which is a great shame as he has recently improved many which had many issues
That's very self-defeating. He criticizes other designers for "Poor" speaker's measurements, then he does not have measurements for His own speakers, really.
Horizontal array of same-range drivers is so glaringly, fundamentally wrong. Many companies sell such systems. They are all going to betray this basic design flaw. Adding an open baffle is just going all in with no hand. Very strange.
I know, right? I would assume anyone who listens to music or watches movies would be interested in bass response. Danny's "but but I can't measure it properly because of room response" is nothing but a lame excuse, when everyone else can do it.
@@jon1810 -- Don't hold your breath. It's now been more than two weeks without a peep from the perpetrating "designer" of this audio atrocity -- a man without a leg to stand on can't effectively stand up for himself, can he?
Oh no. Not another one. Sigh. I thought I would point out that the awful frequency response we see in this speaker is much the opposite or inverse of what is possibly desirable toward the goal of compensating for the dominant room effects. Consider the reflection from the wall behind the speaker for example. At very low frequency, down around where the big peak is seen in this speaker's response, the wavelength is long such that the reflected wave from the wall behind the speaker will be only slightly out of phase with the wave coming directly from the drivers in front. Because the phase offset is slight, this amounts to reinforcement when considered in a comparative manner, i.e., compared to what occurs overall at frequencies above a certain threshold located typically in mid-bass or low midrange. As you move higher in frequency (from, say, 50 Hz), eventually the wavelength is short enough such the reflected wave from the wall behind the speaker will be 180 degree out of phase with the direct wave from the front of the driver. By way of example, suppose the front of the speaker is 18" (a typical value) distant from the wall behind the speaker. If we set the round-trip distance (36") equal to one-half wavelength (for full cancellation), the wavelength will be 72" or 6'. This is the wavelength where the reflected sound from the wall behind the speaker will be fully out of phase with the sound coming directly from the front of the speaker, and where cancellation will be essentially perfect such that a deep, deep "suck-out" will be seen in the frequency response heard by a listener sitting in front of the speaker in a normal listening position. To translate this wavelength to frequency, we divide the wavelength into the speed of sound, expressed in the same units of distance. Doing the math, 1125 feet/s divided by 6 feet is 187.5 Hz. The salient point is that if you were to design a speaker with the intent for it to self-compensate for this room effect, you would want for it to have an high peak at about 190 Hz (200 Hz is close enough). You would want this peak to come on abruptly as you move toward it from higher frequency, and then for it to gradually subside as you move lower in frequency, to where somewhere around 100 Hz (and octave lower) the amplitude smoothly crosses 0 then continues to roll off in a very gradual, smooth manner as you continue moving lower in frequency. Thus, the frequency response of this speaker is almost the exact opposite of what you would want it to be if you want a speaker that will self-correct for this dominant room effect. The much-despised dip in upper bass will be exacerbated, and the sometimes-despised exaggeration of deep bass will be exacerbated (but only at one very particular frequency, due to the high Q of the deep-bass peak in this speaker's response. There is little point in trying to understand why there are people who still hold D.R. in high esteem and who think that he has high skill with audio design. Anyone with any real sense will know who D.R. really is, when they take note of the fact that he sells $$$$$ power cables and tells people that the $$$$$ power cables improve sound quality. Anyone with any real sense will know that this is a sham. And on this basis, they will make a correct assessment of who D.R. really is. For about two seconds, I pondered the possibility of a large number of people pressuring RUclips to kick D.R. off of RUclips. I abandoned that thought after about two seconds, because there are obvious reasons why it wouldn't work. Once reason is that D.R. might have grounds for legal action. I'm not certain of that, but the greater reason is that if RUclips were to kick him off, there are many others waiting in line to take his place. The only reasonable, rational response to D.R. and his ilk is for people like Amir to do exactly what Amir does. I admire Amir for his tirelessness in doing this. People who look at this as some sort of feud and who chastise Amir for what they wrongly perceive as some sort of grudge are simply looking at it the wrong way. What Amir is doing is the only thing that can be done about D.R. and others who are like him. The full audio consumer community at large needs someone like Amir to do exactly this sort of thing. This is the reason I applaud Amir, and why I do not find it difficult to cut him slack when he occasionally makes a small misstep. Which he does not often do. Thanks, Amir, for what you do, and for your tirelessness in doing it. Please keep it up.
well not everyone, can measure down to 20hz.. and there is no need for it either. but you are right the 200hz ones lack... detail addressing the problems
I guess this question should be on Danny’s channel but he always tells everyone to upgrade to tube connectors because five way binding posts are crap. Yeah, what about the five way Bunning post that the other end is almost always connected to with any normal receiver, and any home theater type amplifier. The only amplifier I have found that does not use five way binding post is certain professional amplifiers so my question is how on earth is a tube connector going into the speaker going to change the sound any when you’re still using a five way Bunning post on the other end the signal to begin with
In 2018 it cost $189 and that peak would be taken care off with a highpass filter in the receiver. The suckout would also partly be filled with room gain I think. But yeah its not his finest work.
why can't the fella accept constructive criticism & fix the problem rather than lecture the customer about having the 'wrong room' set up, sounds like an amateur, mind you he ain't the only one, another one in the audio industry who shall remain nameless fancies himself as a record producer George Martin must be quaking in his boots lol.
It is amazing the lengths to which he goes to deny issues, problems. Somehow he thinks he can only sell things if he first sells himself as doing no wrong and having no limit to his knowledge.
I have several speakers made by AV123 using the same drivers. They are around 15 years old and still measure fairly well. From 60hz-400hz they are +/- 5db...and from 400hz-24Khz they are +/- 3db...in my untreated livingroom. The X-Series was reviewed very favorably by Audioholics and others, and received several awards. I would not have purchased them otherwise. To address your assumption...the company did not go out of business due to bad designs. They weren't afraid to experiment, and some of those just didn't work out well. But...Danny generally makes good products, as demonstrated by the multiple awards and favorable reviews. The problem was the company owner, Mark Schifter, was embezzling money and his assets were seized. This had nothing to do with Danny Richie. Honestly, the uninformed commentary seems like a personal vendetta against the man. Not very professional.
I don't claim to be an audio historian. I made that comment about AV123 as an aside. It has nothing to do with the professional testing I performed showing the design is clearly flawed. A number of others have since come out and show the same measurements in their own rooms. Here is the latest: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=187839 As to professionalism, instead of acknowledging the problem properly, he is starting with obfuscation and a direct insult about me: "You have to also remember that anything that they can get ahold of of ours is just going to be a hit job. They hate all of us real audiophiles and listeners of music and we are just sellers of "snake oil"." You call that professionalism??? He also claims that the 70 Hz peak and follow up dip is caused by floor bounce. There is no way sound is directional in bass that way as to create floor bounce. That is basics of acoustics. I suggest giving him advice to learn these things than me.
![GR Research B24 AC Cable Review Follow up [Entertainment]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_7HbjdQRaAM/mqdefault.jpg)
![GR Research B24 AC Cable Review Follow up [Entertainment]](/img/tr.png)
Sorry about this "Premier" thing. I uploaded last night and just trying to make it visible and it is forcing me to post it as such.
It’s visible!
@@dilbyjones I can't se it. What is he saying?
@@KernelFault When I tried to make it visible, the only way it would do that was by making it a "Premier." What the meant was that it would play the video as if it is a live session with chat box on top right. Now that it has done that, it seems to work like any other video.
talkin shit like all u do all day! Bring it!
Danny is now selling GR research audiophile towels for $475 as an optional extra. ☺️
I have published a provisional patent for that and I have linked to this review for it. So if he does that, he better be ready to pay up!!!! :)
😂😂😂😂
They are cryogenically frozen and woven by hand by virgins (oh wait, I did a material analysis and they are just $5 IKEA Somoza towels with the tag removed.
@crazyprayingmantis5596 And he offers a discount of $5 if purchased with two sets of "tube connectors" and a power cable blessed by the Pope.
Audiophile towels?
I want the high end Mike Lindell long staple Shirpur cotton fibers from Giza ... version.
I've A/B'd Pima cotton vs. Giza cotton over and over ... for over 18 months.
Still, I cannot discern a difference;
- both are quite absorbent
- both lack transparency
During the towel drop testing, peaks and valleys were easily resolved, yet focus was hard to maintain.
35yrs of wedded bliss to my lab assistant ... here's to 35 more.
Amir, take a leaf out of Danny’s book. “Swap the cheesy binding posts for tube connectors. Change the iron core inductors for air core inductors. Replace the electrolytic capacitors with pollycaps. Upgrade the wiring to a higher gauge and line the cabinet with low res”. Then send the parts out to the customer and charge him almost the original cost of the speaker and call it an upgrade. It works for him!
I was surprised he didn't bring out any of this as the reasons for the problems. :)
Have some Whine with those Cheesy binders
@@pizzaearthpancakesandother2549 no mate, I’m a beer swiller. Not a wine sipper!
@@AudioScienceReview 👍🍻👍
You are spot on.
Amir with a Danny product. When I saw GR Research in the title, I knew I have to watch this...
I stopped watching this guy. Every speaker is wrong and needs improvement, except his own! Mind you adding new binding posts does make all the difference (to his profits)
Excellent in depth review. Meticulous, thorough, Sherlock Holmes-like investigation. Your efforts are, I'm sure, much appreciated by all 'audio truth seekers'.
A perfect opportunity for Danny to analyze this crossover and sell an upgrade.
That would be funny, send the speaker to Danny to "fix"
These funny comments are just what I need. Thanks for being smart asses @@tallpaull9367
Lol! 😆
haha good one
Danny has a bad habit of instantly dismissing people who find problems in his speakers which is totally ironic given what he does for a living.
Isn't that the truth.
He's a fallacious hypocrite that exhibits cognitive dissonance and the Dunning-Kruger effect. His followers worship because they're the same.
He will never admit a mistake.
I’ve never seen Amir or his toxic fanbase admit failure either, so I guess they’re all swilling in the same cesspool.
@@nathandaniels4823 That would make them dismiss science and facts. You rather live in a fairy tale?
Outstanding Video Amir. Your talent of presenting in this format is superb. Match this to your depth and breadth of Audio Engineering experience and your are in a league of your own here. Very high value video. Keep on Teaching. It’s what you were born to do.
Danny is a good businessman. Knows just enough to sell snake oil effectively.
Almost fifteen years ago I built the (only) GR kit for @$100 and made my own cabinets. Back then; D.R. stated he had bought overstocked drivers in bulk from India and incorporated them in this design. I was never impressed by them and preferred my Overnight Sensations and every other kit I ever built. Years later I see GR are still using the same overstocked drivers. I realize everyone is trying to make a living and how they do it is their business. My fix is to ignore anything from D.R. and GR.
The one time throwing in the towel is a victory.
Where can we buy the ASR towel upgrade kit for our X-Voce? Before and after towel measurements not shown though
Working on it. There will be three grades: good, better and best with prices to go with that....
But Danny knows what the parts sound like...🤔
Yes, it's all in the crossover between his ears 😄
Nothing that a bit of “no res” and some expensive binding posts couldn’t sort out.
I'm eternally grateful that I didn't succumb to temptation and buy a different 2 way kit from Danny. I did get a quote for delivery to UK and decided against it. So, for those who have this strange speaker I offer advice from The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy - You'd better know where your towel is !
Thanks for these detailed and insightful analyses.
Very happy to see someone evaluating the work of a delusional amateur designer. I can’t fathom why someone in their right mind would buy this over a similarly priced powered monitor from Adam/JBL/RCF/Kali/Dynaudio.
Don't give amateur designers a bad name! Many amateurs design better products than are commercially feasible because of cost restrictions. Danny goes the other way but still rarely significantly improves a product, usually trading a lot of sensitivity for a little improvement in on axis frequency response only. This is often paid for in other areas, like off axis. You really can't beat a Klippel plot to tell most of the story.
When some body designs a centre speaker that only works well when it's vertical who the F##k designed it !
I see the problem with your measurements Amir.
They're not taking into account the flatness of the earth!
Danny is just too darned arrogant. Everyone must see that?
a requirement to be scamming ppl yes.
Great. Amir is gonna start selling "audiophile terry cloth and turkish linen towels' : "WOW a entire veil was lifted! The back ground was darker!! The soundstage was wider and deeper...incredible details like I never heard before. Even my wife/cat/dog/kid/girlfriend said how amazing it sounded now!" $4000 for gold tread, $9000 for platinum.
Yeah, Turkish towels for the audio 'hammam"
Blame it all on the cheezy wiring from Flat Earth Electronics.
You realize that you have opened the door for Danny's next product,
The GR Rerearch Acousti-Towel!
oh you’re right, Amir made a positive review of the X-LS Encore and recommended it. I missed that, thanks
I also gave positive review to his crossover fix for a Klipsch speaker.
@@AudioScienceReview Which I am upset about by the way. There's no way Danny has the competence to do things better than the professional speaker companies can. What are the chances that B&W, Dynaudio, Kef, Focal, Revel have all got it wrong and only Danny has got it right? What secret knowledge does Danny have that enables him to design a correct speaker that eludes every other speaker company?!
Hope we will get Dannys a reply to this review:) 🍿
lol
These are the speakers that used to reel me in before I learnt about measurements. They look so fantastic, they must sound fantastic too! All the audiophoolary nonsense can't stand up to measurements. I'm very happy that prior to seeing measurements all my system is full of Kef R300/100 series. They ended up measuring well
The frequency response 😅
The using drivers for open baffle that aren't meant for open baffle not is just absolutely ridiculous amateur hour. What a mess!
These drivers can be used in both configurations. I have them in a full OB design and they measure and sound fantastic. The problem appears to be in the crossover design.
Danny is really an amateur designer.Not an engineer.
that's insulting to amateur designers. Most DIY speaker enthusiasts(myself included) would never produce a speaker like that and say yeah sounds good to me.
Great, eye opening review . Thanks
Danny shows measurements of many speakers that he says are cheesy and bad, but his upgrades can't be measured but you can hear the difference. Oh the upgrades cost more than the speaker itself.
Yeh, I don't know how defends that with a straight face. He makes mods to speakers and ships them without listening. Yet with mods, he says you listen but don't measure.
a real expert. Thank You Amir.
If only people would be honest. Honesty brings customers. This is sad.
As if we needed more proof Danny R is a quack and charlatan! This would be hilarious if it weren't for people spending good money for a broken product.
Danny has many excellent products. I’ll agree this is a problem he needs to look at and address, if it’s the same issue with his current kit, but to whitewash all of his stuff with the same assessment shows a high level of immaturity and ignorance.
@@jon1810 Danny still sells snake oil cables and refuses repeatedly to acknowledge faulty speaker designs he's made. I'm not saying he's never made decent product; selling faulty and scammy products does justify my opinion of him as a charlatan.
This is so bad I almost feel bad for Danny. But I don’t.
I hear GR Research is including a My Pillow with every sale.
Well....technically Danny has left us a clue "X Voce" means "No Voice"
No accurate voice at any rate.
the problem with hifi companies is that many of them come from one „guru“ type hobbyist that turns professional by selling their design and have this trial and error type of mentality. Investing in knowlege and measurement systems that let you understand what you design would require work that most them them could not manage to do. (FEM analysis e.g.). So they keep „designing by ear“ and fool themselves and the world by a ton of marketing.
Hi Amir, thanks for another great review. I was very interested as I bought the X-Statik speakers as a kit and built them during the Covid lockdown. They are wonderful speakers, in my opinion, with some of the best imaging and detail I have experienced. That said, I use them with twin subs and use a bass equalization system so I likely don't have the low-end issue you showed here. I didn't opt for any of Danny's extras (tube connectors etc.) either.
Auto-EQ and proper crossover will definitely fix/mask these issues. Still, it is better to have a proper bass response in case your use changes.
@@AudioScienceReview Yes, agreed the less EQ that has to be done the better. That said, there seems to be a trend of using computational power to refine and enhance audio and photographic equipment. Most lenses come with correction profiles and looking at images "straight out of the lens" can be disappointing. I used Dirac room correction on these speakers and found that it didn't make that much difference (no bass correction) but I have heard it make a large improvement in other speakers. Perhaps you could do a video that discusses the benefits and pitfalls of this kind of technology? You seem well suited to address something like this. Apologies if you have done this already.
Hey everybody, keep buying my overpriced junk so I can keep on eatin' that good old Texas barbecue y'all.
They *do* have great barbeque there. That much we have to hand to him....
I stopped watching the GR ‘Research’ channel some time ago as I couldn’t stomach some of the reptile lubricant…
As Reagan said.....There you go again. What the heck??? Must be those "tube" connectors or the special ultra high end wires aren't right huh? (-:
Flip the speaker over and lay it on its top, add a high pass crossover/cutoff at 300hz. Seriously though, it's a very odd design..I've never seen anything like it. After seeing this review it's no wonder we don't normally see any enclosure/designs like this.. as mentioned. Monster enclosure though. Great review 👍
I'd be curious to know if its the driver itself or the crossover so it would be great to test the driver by itself. What is the value of that red electrolytic capacitor? I wonder if it is connected to that ferrite-core inductor and that's creating a high-Q resonance.
I can't wait to see GR respond video after 2nd time. LOL
He just post an obfuscated video where he never acknowledged the problem. But seems like what he has done is pull the response of the mid-woofers lower. That may fill the gap some but the resonant peak will remain. He has no anechoic measurements to show response below 200 Hz so it is all guessing until someone like me tests them again.
Amir, Selling a kit without measurements, or not having them on file, Danny has No Excuse ! For the money, I expect a schematic diagram and test measurements. Thanks for the video and all the best.
There is this guy on the internet. He designs crossovers for speakers which have problems. Maybe he should have a look at this flawed speaker. I forgot his name. I think it starts with D...
:)
Your reviews have helped me make choices, thank you :) Question: have you lived with a real piano, or other acoustic instrument in frequent use? I have many electronic instruments, from various eras, including "state of the art", like the Osmose. (Not rich, just old) None can remotely compare to my real upright piano, in the same room, or to a sax, violin, conga, lute etc. I wonder how this fundamental truth can best be measured? You can't share the richness, like a recording, outside the space. Modern gear worship--I'm guilty, belies the weakness of electronic reproduction, even the most expensive. Not to mention the health benefits, compared to passive listening, of trying to play instruments. Might be an interesting subject for a video, with your technical knowledge.
I am glad you like my reviews. I have a decent Kawai electronic piano (upright). As you say, it doesn't hold a candle to the acoustic piano my teach has. Every time I go to my lesson the first keystroke startles me in how good it sounds compared to my $6,000 electronic one. Real instruments create such an expansive soundfield that it is difficult to capture and present.
The adjective I use to describe the GR sound is "Charlatone".
Great video, thank you. Danny prides himself on measurements, for him to not have measurements or say he's going to get to them is BS. He knows the measurements are shit and that's why you don't/won't see them...very disengenuous, IMO. Thanks again.
So you believe Amir’s measurements are without fault? Interesting.
@@jon1810 -- Amir is a credentialed engineer with decades of experience who owns SOTA measurement gear and knows who to use it. Danny Richie is an DIY audio hobbyist with a business degree who fancies himself a self-taught/self-styled speaker designer -- he's the "R" is "GR-Research," his former partner, an actual engineer, was the "G." I know who to trust -- who you choose to trust is your call and I wish you well of it
These guys probably hate you
Thank You Sir!
👍
Great job, thank you very much.
Please test name brand gear and avoid the snake oil salesmen. I am more curious about how really good the good gear is than the amateur products.
Will do.....
He does that all the time. Go checkout the website.
In any case, Danny does not present himself as an amateur but as an expert smarter than the engineers working at highly regarded brands, selling “upgraded” crossovers etc for speakers made by many brands that are often as expensive as the speakers themselves, and rely on lots of snake oil.
So his outfit is fair game.
Let's also not pretend that Danny is actually ''fixing'' the speakers made by big name companies that people send to him. Why can't B&W, Dynaudio, KEF, Focal and Wilson audio design their crossovers the way Danny modifies them? What special methods or knowledge does Danny have that they dont!!
interestingly enuf, it seems that Elac did what you suggested when they brought out their Debut Reference line. Similar mods were made to the speakers that DR suggested when he worked on the Debut line. Of course, we don't know if Elac even saw his suggestions.
@@great100m Danny finds almost every speaker he tests to be wrong. How likely is it that B&W, Dynaudio, KEF and Focal are all wrong and he's right? Its more likely hes the one thats wrong. Danny cant dominate the marketplace like those big companies can which is why all he can do is criticise them.
He does not have the resources or equipment like the other big name companies do. The best companies also employ people that have degrees in relevant fields such as acoustics or physics. Danny is just a hobbyist. There are lots of hobbyists that do speaker design.
Danny is not special in any way. He has no respect within the speaker industry or even the DIY community. He's not a misunderstood genius.
I've had my X-Statik, X-Voce and X-LS Encore with Velodyne subwoofer setup since 2009. I love them and everyone who has watched movies and listened to music on this setup have enjoyed them as well.
To each their own, but I've never regretted my purchase.
Greetings Amir.
Happy to see you
for the first time😊🙏
Being a new member of ASR.
X-Voce is too complex,
I like simpler ones.
Best Wishes 💐
Dang....great review!!!! Too much data from too many different people with the same results!!! This is broken indeed!
In a response to jays ayagis video on dannys measurements didnt danny say he doesn't even measure bass because of the issues of splicing in after the fact?
I don't remember that but he I do remember him saying/commenting that the bass response gets modified by the room so why measure. Now he knows why. :)
Years ago I watched a video from GR Research and within minutes I knew something was off. I didn’t have to know how to read his measurements and I didn’t have to know how to build speakers to know that I was watching a grifter at work. I finished watching the video and thought to myself I wonder how many people fall for his nonsense. Apparently a lot. I’m just not one of them.
Amir, what the hell are you doing? Truth is not popular these days! (-:
I think tube connectors and more non magnetic parts would fix everything. (-:
that’s the oddest looking freq chart i’ve seen ever. and i’ve been studying this quite a lot for a couple yrs. nothing looks like that quite wow my instinct ably that guy was off the bat accurate. his earth response is flat but frequencies, hmmm
This is a great review showing how bad Danny Richies speakers are. GR Research needs to be shut down!
Perhaps a class action lawsuit?
😂 - this is a funny joke. I think I’ll write it down and share it with friends and strangers.
Good review! What I want to see next is a center speaker with good values according to your measurements. That way we can compare this bad speaker with a good one.
Center speakers seem to be more of a marketing attempt than delivering performance. That dual mid-woofer and tweeter combo catches people's eyes and sales are made. Good designs do exist in the form of 3-way speakers which solves the directivity issue. You can seen an example of one in my own Revel C52: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/revel-c52-speaker-review-and-measurements.10934/
@@AudioScienceReview I'll take a look. I have a center channel and can say I haven't been that impressed by it. It lacks punch and is highly directional, but at least it's clear in the midrange and does add to the overall sound mix.
Lol, Danny's measurement equipment does not go under 200 Hz. This is why Danny has no idea this is happening
Was it like 'a gauze had been lifted' when you put a towel on it?
The hump looks like a combination of a high QTS woofer and inductance gain from lack of knowledge on how crossover components work.
That was the consensus on the forum as well.
Or an incorrect and disengenious measurement.
maybe someone can give him a pair of Pearl Acoustics 'Sebelius' to have a go at, full range driver no crossover directly wired, got positive reviews.
@@jon1810 So Amir went out of his way to do it wrong on purpose to report on a product where he also include evidence that this is a problem with his other similar speaker? Wow....
Given GR Research doesn’t measure anything below 200hz no surprise here.
A ton of people in the industry don’t try and measure below 200.
@@jon1810
GR research is the only tester/reviewer/ modifier (whatever he calls himself) I know who leaves out everything below 200hz. And I go back to Julian Hirsch from the 1970’s!
The bass response of speakers is what separates the good the bad and the ugly. Regardless of Danny’s excuse not testing speakers below 200hz is tantamount to heresy.
@@Carl-bd1rfI can rattle off several, and some really big names, that I know of personally. Without a properly designed anechoic chamber, which costs huge bucks, or properly done outdoor ground-plane measurements, you are not able to accurately represent the response of the speaker below 200-300 hz. The room matters most of all in the range anyway, and a huge majority of music listeners have subpar rooms...so does it really matter? Thanks.
@@jon1810
Yes it matters the most.
If you know the sound characteristics of the room you’re measuring a speaker in then you simply compensate for it!
It’s not brain surgery.
Anyone not measuring a speakers performance below 200 hz is being disingenuous and certainly cannot be taken seriously as a speaker reviewer or modifier.
If you have a speaker that is ruler flat from 200 to 20k yet has 10db or more swings below 200 hz and drops off the chart say below 50 hz you have crap for sound irregardless of your 200 to 20k flatness.
If Danny hasn’t made acoustic adjustments in his listening room to compensate for bass irregularities then everything he does is for naught. He knows the bass response of his room therefor he has no excuse not to measure speakers below 200 hz.
Amir lifting veils by dropping his bath towel.
What a unit! 😂
If you had his speaker wire, lifted off the ground, and his power chords, it would sound perfect. 🙄
Amir "I'm Gonna Wreck This Little Man's Whole Career" M is my new hero
Did you measure it with the optional towel add on?
No. That would give out too many secrets about my acoustic towel!
I don't mind Richie Dannys, I mean the guy is faster than The Flash and has a smooth Texas drawl. It's his henchman and Pay4Play aficionado, Ronaldo, at Knew Record Day who bugs me. If you are critical at all he will ban you from commenting on his channel
Amir bans way more on his site
even the heat map has a sad face...
😂😂😂
I understand the problem that can arise from mislabeled or wildly labeled boards. Interesting, great review.
For some measurements don't mean much, but in this case it advocates for itself. 😄
Youve spelt sealed as "sealled" , might want to correct that.
danny’s like the d trump of audiophlavins
The bass speakers have a serious design problem no2 Danny never measures below 200 hertzs that speaker could be improved on but was not by him which is a great shame as he has recently improved many which had many issues
That's very self-defeating. He criticizes other designers for "Poor" speaker's measurements, then he does not have measurements for His own speakers, really.
Ironic, isn't it?
Horizontal array of same-range drivers is so glaringly, fundamentally wrong. Many companies sell such systems. They are all going to betray this basic design flaw. Adding an open baffle is just going all in with no hand. Very strange.
I always wondered why Danny's measurements stopped at 200Hz.
I know, right? I would assume anyone who listens to music or watches movies would be interested in bass response. Danny's "but but I can't measure it properly because of room response" is nothing but a lame excuse, when everyone else can do it.
Looking forward to the GRE reply video...
Yep - It’s going to destroy these ridiculous measurements and assumptions.
@@jon1810 -- Don't hold your breath. It's now been more than two weeks without a peep from the perpetrating "designer" of this audio atrocity -- a man without a leg to stand on can't effectively stand up for himself, can he?
Oh no. Not another one. Sigh.
I thought I would point out that the awful frequency response we see in this speaker is much the opposite or inverse of what is possibly desirable toward the goal of compensating for the dominant room effects. Consider the reflection from the wall behind the speaker for example. At very low frequency, down around where the big peak is seen in this speaker's response, the wavelength is long such that the reflected wave from the wall behind the speaker will be only slightly out of phase with the wave coming directly from the drivers in front. Because the phase offset is slight, this amounts to reinforcement when considered in a comparative manner, i.e., compared to what occurs overall at frequencies above a certain threshold located typically in mid-bass or low midrange. As you move higher in frequency (from, say, 50 Hz), eventually the wavelength is short enough such the reflected wave from the wall behind the speaker will be 180 degree out of phase with the direct wave from the front of the driver. By way of example, suppose the front of the speaker is 18" (a typical value) distant from the wall behind the speaker. If we set the round-trip distance (36") equal to one-half wavelength (for full cancellation), the wavelength will be 72" or 6'. This is the wavelength where the reflected sound from the wall behind the speaker will be fully out of phase with the sound coming directly from the front of the speaker, and where cancellation will be essentially perfect such that a deep, deep "suck-out" will be seen in the frequency response heard by a listener sitting in front of the speaker in a normal listening position. To translate this wavelength to frequency, we divide the wavelength into the speed of sound, expressed in the same units of distance. Doing the math, 1125 feet/s divided by 6 feet is 187.5 Hz. The salient point is that if you were to design a speaker with the intent for it to self-compensate for this room effect, you would want for it to have an high peak at about 190 Hz (200 Hz is close enough). You would want this peak to come on abruptly as you move toward it from higher frequency, and then for it to gradually subside as you move lower in frequency, to where somewhere around 100 Hz (and octave lower) the amplitude smoothly crosses 0 then continues to roll off in a very gradual, smooth manner as you continue moving lower in frequency. Thus, the frequency response of this speaker is almost the exact opposite of what you would want it to be if you want a speaker that will self-correct for this dominant room effect. The much-despised dip in upper bass will be exacerbated, and the sometimes-despised exaggeration of deep bass will be exacerbated (but only at one very particular frequency, due to the high Q of the deep-bass peak in this speaker's response.
There is little point in trying to understand why there are people who still hold D.R. in high esteem and who think that he has high skill with audio design. Anyone with any real sense will know who D.R. really is, when they take note of the fact that he sells $$$$$ power cables and tells people that the $$$$$ power cables improve sound quality. Anyone with any real sense will know that this is a sham. And on this basis, they will make a correct assessment of who D.R. really is.
For about two seconds, I pondered the possibility of a large number of people pressuring RUclips to kick D.R. off of RUclips. I abandoned that thought after about two seconds, because there are obvious reasons why it wouldn't work. Once reason is that D.R. might have grounds for legal action. I'm not certain of that, but the greater reason is that if RUclips were to kick him off, there are many others waiting in line to take his place.
The only reasonable, rational response to D.R. and his ilk is for people like Amir to do exactly what Amir does. I admire Amir for his tirelessness in doing this. People who look at this as some sort of feud and who chastise Amir for what they wrongly perceive as some sort of grudge are simply looking at it the wrong way. What Amir is doing is the only thing that can be done about D.R. and others who are like him. The full audio consumer community at large needs someone like Amir to do exactly this sort of thing. This is the reason I applaud Amir, and why I do not find it difficult to cut him slack when he occasionally makes a small misstep. Which he does not often do.
Thanks, Amir, for what you do, and for your tirelessness in doing it. Please keep it up.
Thanks 🙏
well not everyone, can measure down to 20hz.. and there is no need for it either. but you are right the 200hz ones lack... detail addressing the problems
Danny is a chancer
Can it be, that there is too much inductance at the woofers voice coil. Make it works as a lowpass filter.
I remember av123 from back in the day. Lots of hype on forums
Some people like purchasing snake oil and Danny is more than willing to sell it. It's rather amusing and hilarious to observe.
To be hiding frequency response below 200 Hertz is quite rich when bass extension is the single most difficult thing to get right...
the MTM design is not good horizontal for sweet spot, vertical is a diff story
Fighting and dismantle and revenge review good job Amir 😂😂
I guess this question should be on Danny’s channel but he always tells everyone to upgrade to tube connectors because five way binding posts are crap. Yeah, what about the five way Bunning post that the other end is almost always connected to with any normal receiver, and any home theater type amplifier. The only amplifier I have found that does not use five way binding post is certain professional amplifiers so my question is how on earth is a tube connector going into the speaker going to change the sound any when you’re still using a five way Bunning post on the other end the signal to begin with
Good point. That also goes for wiring when said component is of any grade in the inductors and speaker voice coil.
i remember on one of his videos suggesting that if the customer was competent enough they can purchase extra toooob connectors to fit in their amps
Audio Science Review
, Thanks Much !.......
In 2018 it cost $189 and that peak would be taken care off with a highpass filter in the receiver. The suckout would also partly be filled with room gain I think. But yeah its not his finest work.
I'm actually looking into building an X-Voce center. Do you know if there's a big sound difference from the stock crossover and the sonicap upgrade?
why can't the fella accept constructive criticism & fix the problem rather than lecture the customer about having the 'wrong room' set up, sounds like an amateur, mind you he ain't the only one, another one in the audio industry who shall remain nameless fancies himself as a record producer George Martin must be quaking in his boots lol.
It is amazing the lengths to which he goes to deny issues, problems. Somehow he thinks he can only sell things if he first sells himself as doing no wrong and having no limit to his knowledge.
I have several speakers made by AV123 using the same drivers. They are around 15 years old and still measure fairly well. From 60hz-400hz they are +/- 5db...and from 400hz-24Khz they are +/- 3db...in my untreated livingroom. The X-Series was reviewed very favorably by Audioholics and others, and received several awards. I would not have purchased them otherwise.
To address your assumption...the company did not go out of business due to bad designs. They weren't afraid to experiment, and some of those just didn't work out well. But...Danny generally makes good products, as demonstrated by the multiple awards and favorable reviews. The problem was the company owner, Mark Schifter, was embezzling money and his assets were seized. This had nothing to do with Danny Richie.
Honestly, the uninformed commentary seems like a personal vendetta against the man. Not very professional.
I don't claim to be an audio historian. I made that comment about AV123 as an aside. It has nothing to do with the professional testing I performed showing the design is clearly flawed. A number of others have since come out and show the same measurements in their own rooms. Here is the latest: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=187839
As to professionalism, instead of acknowledging the problem properly, he is starting with obfuscation and a direct insult about me:
"You have to also remember that anything that they can get ahold of of ours is just going to be a hit job. They hate all of us real audiophiles and listeners of music and we are just sellers of "snake oil"."
You call that professionalism??? He also claims that the 70 Hz peak and follow up dip is caused by floor bounce. There is no way sound is directional in bass that way as to create floor bounce. That is basics of acoustics. I suggest giving him advice to learn these things than me.
I'm actually looking into building an X-Voce center. Do you know if there's a big sound difference from the stock crossover and the sonicap upgrade?
lol don’t worry about that😂
Amir!🎉
Thanks for your work on high quality reviews.