Morning from tropical Scotland, I hope everyone is safe and well 😁 I had the pleasure of meeting Jason at axpona, and I can honestly say he's a gentleman. He is passionate about the bacch and knows his stuff, I follow jason and like his approach, people need to remember that when we build a system its for us, its set up and sound profile is made for us not anyone else, yes others enjoy the sound but its tuned to us, its a personal thing, I don't like DCS I find the sound too clinical too detailed for me ( no I haven't listened to their 250k system but have listened to the rest ) but others swear by them its our personal taste, I own naim amps, the olive series to be precise and live the sound but I hate the series after that they changed the sound, the brand new naim amps are a kick back to the olive series and sound good but still not as good in my opinion, there you go same manufacturer different products different experience, anyway please stay safe and well 😁
As an owner I appreciate your time taken to be sure that the integration is 100% correct. Anything less and you will not get an appreciation of what this component by Theoretica Applied Physics, not Sciences can do. The better and more refined your current listening situation is, the better your experience will be. The ORC {optimal room correction} module is as much of a true game changer as the BACCH processing is. There are many misconceptions out there by individuals that have not had the opportunity to experience it correctly, or set-up correctly yet thought that they had. Some also wrongly believe that it artificially alters the source material to enhance what you experience. Everything that you experience while listening to a properly integrated BACCH component has always been there on the recording. You have just never been able to hear it that way before due to room interaction and the inability to listen to true stereo due to the natural crosstalk between the speakers. The BACCH system takes care of those issues by the removal of that incorrect information reaching your ears.
@_944audiophile I have a very well-honed nose at sniffing out bullshit. We will let this play out. Jason is giving me an opportunity to become fully acquainted with this system. One thing I promise you is that you will hear the truth about my opinion of this system at the end of all of this. That I can promise you all.🎧🙂👍
@toddt5562 Hi Todd, with the greatest of respect, mate, we need to keep this on topic without getting personal or casting any judgements about anyone. It's one of my no-nos here on the channel. Let's keep it respectful and wait and see what happens. Because I promise you there will be no censoring or fluffing anything I have to say about this system when I've fully explored it. 🎧🙂👍
@shanestephenson8423 this type of comment is ironic given what we recently discussed and why I didn't release more parts of our original zoom. If I released the parts that were self serving to me with your compliments, then you get even more of these type guys saying "you only pimp yourself in videos".
GM from frozen 🥶 Toronto. It seems you’re going to give it an absolute shot at performance 🎭. I feel that you’re going to be the proverbial cat amongst the pidgins . Have a fantastic weekend…and I’m off to shovel the snow off my driveway 🥶
Hi mate, I'm not sure about the cat amongst the pigeons. There is a big part of me that just wants to make sure that when I do review this, I am being 100% thorough and not leaving anything out. Nobody is insisting I do this. It was offered to me, and I accepted Jason's offer. Be careful shovelling that snow mate don't hurt your back.👍🎧
@ I get what you’re saying and support both you and Jason’s exploration of the Bach approach … Definitely an avenue worth exploring . Have a great weekend.
Fine to mention the Bacch4Mac is coming from me... It's important to notate a few other details around it. Most importantly, it's important to note that getting the B4M was the original plan. That ADIO you had many months ago wasn't yours, and things surrounding that install were atypical of an owner. (It's also important to note that the unit you used was on the way to the actual owner who still has it and loves it and thought he was going to be a part of any review video.) There was lots of hoops that had to be jumped just to get that unit installed for you being a non-owner at the time, and I'll let you decide how much of that stuff surrounding the unit you want to disclose. As you mentioned though, Edgar is great. When we discussed it months ago, you felt that you didn't get a good enough experience to do a thorough review, and you didn't want to release such a review. To your credit, that was 100% concluded by you. It's important to make that clear because I can tell from at least one comment it appears that people think this is something new that transpired. This was just Edgar's suggestion many months ago if you wanted to do a more thorough review with your own unit at a budget more palatable. Because Edgar doesn't have any units to loan, and he's never loaned units even to major reviewers, we didn't know that whether you went that route was contingent on getting a loaner. Thus, when you dropped the initial video after all that time, I reached out and asked if you had gotten the B4M. After talking on the phone about many things I wasn't aware of and also things you weren't aware of with the features of the Bacch, we came to the same conclusion of many months ago...albeit I would loan you mine since Edgar doesn't have any and the customer backlog is too large. On top of some features and settings that you weren't aware of... You didn't have any measurements captured from your room, and the unit you had didn't have ORC. Thus, even though the B4M is a lower model in the line, it will actually give you both more time and more access to features you didn't know about initially. It's important to note that this was strictly an option... Even many months ago... You could always do whatever you wanted, but it seemed obvious to both of us that even the lower model B4M would give you a better quality review because of everything surrounding that other unit. It could still be positive or negative...I think you can echo that nobody has ever told you not to do/say anything. The key for me was just learning that you needed a loaner so I offered mine.
Thanks, Jason, for your clarification. The information around my part in getting the ADIO for the eventual owner is irrelevant to the review, so I will not be talking about that in my review. It will certainly be interesting to get the B4M here and go through everything to get a full understanding of this system and form my opinion on it. This will be added separately to my opinion on the ADIO when I do my final thoughts video. 👍
Shane I’m confused as to how the Bacch-SP ADIO integrates into a 2-channel system, I understand it can be order with a DAC or without so does it replace your streamer/roon core? Or is it connected somewhere else in the digital chain?
Hi Mitchell, The ADIO model has both a digital to analogue converter and an analogue to digital converter installed on board. There is another model that except only digital inputs it is called the DIO it also has a Dac Incorporated. Then there is the BACCH 4 MAC, which you use your own Dac with. And then the top model is called the Grand. If I've left something out, I'm sure somebody will correct me. I connected my MPT-8, which is installed with the roon core and server option to the ADIO. With the B4M, I will be using the dream stack MPT-8 & MPD-8. 🎧😁👍
@@shanestephenson8423 thanks for that info Shane. So assuming the Bacch 4 Mac is a software installation that is downloadable for Mac users if they are using their Mac mini as their roon core/streamer and then a digital connection from the Mac into their dac? I’d be interested to see your connection path for integration within your playback designs pairing. Seems like a hard sell to opt in for a model where you potentially have to give up your dac and potentially the best connection method from your roon core and endpoint such as a Grimm MU1. A digital connection via AES/EBU doesn’t look like an option into the ADIO/DIO, only SPDIF and optical inputs?
Looking forward to it Shane. Good on ya for taking the time to give this product a fair go. As I understand it, the crosstalk is removed through the Bacch. Is that a good thing? If you're present at a live musical performance, I'm guessing there will be crosstalk present as well. So is the Bacch creating something that doesn't naturally occur? It seems like it may be cool to hear a system under the influence of the Bacch but it's not something that you would hear at a live venue. I am incorrect in this view? But I guess the soundstage created through a stereo system as is also artificial as well. I'm also really interested in the performance of the ORC as it seems to be a next level fix. Do you know if the ORC would be available as a stand alone purchase? Thanks mate. Keep up the great work.
A point of clarification about crosstalk. This is specifically the crosstalk between two speakers and room reflections when playing back a stereo recording. *That* specific crosstalk conflicts with the spatial cues encoded on a stereo recording which compromises the stereo imaging in playback. With live music you are not getting *that* crosstalk. All you are getting is the original spatial cues that we get in real life to hear real life imaging. So the BACCH is eliminating something that does not naturally occur, the crosstalk from two speakers and room reflections that occur when playing back a stereo recording. In fact you can actually record with the BACCH using the in ear microphones used in creating the filters and do a direct A/B comparison between live sound and stereo playback with the BACCH. The imaging is extremely accurate/natural.
Does it not work by creating crosstalk cancellation? If I want cross-talk cancellation, I'll just put on some headphones. But that's why I don't like headphones.... because they don't sound stage like speakers....😂
Headphones do not have the same effect. The reasons are very technical and involve HRTR properties that do not happen with headphones. Headphones mostly image between our ears unless it's a binaural recording. The BACCH DSP is quite different.
I dont quite understand. You can put a super nice and expenisive dac in front of bacch thats takes analog and converts it to digital. In the end when the digital goes back to analog for you amplifers it is going to use its own implemented chip doing to digital to analog right... Its still just a dsp where you lose the "true analog audiophile signal" correct me if Im wrong :)
@oskar.i Hi, an excellent question. With the ADIO I used my mpt 8 Roon core and server to feed the digital signal into the ADIO it then did the analogue conversion and sent it to my preamp and on through the conventional signal path of a two channel system. With the B4M, I will be using both my MPT-8(Roon core/server)and MPD-8 Dac.🎧🙂👍
Morning from tropical Scotland 😁 I hope everyone is safe and well 😁 fair play to you for giving the bacch another go, have heard good things about the bacch for mac, I follow Jason and when it come to the bacch he's the guy to speak to apart from Edgar obviously, really nice bloke and his coverage of hifi shows is second to none, like the fact that you want to get the review correct and of that takes time so be it 😁 anyway please stay safe everyone and look after yourselves 😁
Hi Paul, Yes, I agree with all of the above. Both Jason and Edgar have been brilliant. Edgar, with the original installation of the adio and now to have both of them working with me on the installation of the B4M, this will be thorough. I'll be bringing some other experienced audiophiles into my room to listen while I have the system setup, as I do my testing and evaluation before I give my final thoughts on the system.👍🙂🎧
So I would be surprised that the simple omission of the room correction software in the Bach SP Adio is the reason for why you were unable to integrate it into your system. I’m left with the impression that the Adio you received is defective or user error. Is that fair preliminary assessment, Shane? In any event, thanks for your transparency and honesty in delivering this info to us. Look forward to seeing your journey on this one. 🍀🤞😉
@dragocelander6671 Hi Dan, this is a fairly complex system as far as I understand it, and it needs to be fine-tuned, dialled in if you like to get everything 100% right. This process is done by remote hook-up with Edgar. That process took place with a preliminary setup with the ADIO the first time round, but the unit had to be packed up after around 3 weeks of being with me to go to the fellow that purchased it. The reason I've accepted the offer to review the B4M is I am very curious to evaluate the ORC room correction software. I'm told it really does tie everything together. I've had no experience with it, so yes, out of due diligence, I want to have left no stone unturned before I give my evaluation to you all. The unit is not defective because it went on to its end user, and there are no issues there from what I understand.🎧🙂👍
Okay Shane. I’m on for the ride on this one. I’m team no one, nor here or there… the comments are loading up from people of both camps! Time for the popcorn I suppose. The thing I don’t understand is why another unit? These are supposed to be from the same family. A simple remote session can address any misconfigs…. Good luck with it. Before anyone chomps on me, I have a unit too.
The plan was always to have a look at the B4M. But after my experiences with the ADIO, I was not prepared to buy one to review it. There are no review samples given out for reviewers. Any reviews that you will have seen for the Bacch are from reviewers that have bought the unit. Jason was kind enough to offer to loan me his B4M, and I accepted his offer so that I could be sure I had given this process every opportunity before talking about it.🙂🎧👍
Hopefully we will eventually get your true thoughts on the ADIO, especially since you're testing the B4M now, hopefully that opinion doesn't change your already formed thought on the ADIO, they are two different products after all.
@tkl0111 Yes, that is a great point, and let me assure you my final thoughts video will be in two separate parts, one for each component. I will definitely be talking independently about the ADIO and the B4M. I don't have the B4M here yet. I expect it toward the end of January, and then the process begins. You will see it all here on the channel. This is going to be a multi-part series now.🎧🙂👍
@@shanestephenson8423 Thanks Shane, appreciate the eventual insight. I think it's good to describe your ADIO setup process, so that your viewers can properly calibrate your evaluation against the setup that you did. I don't think set up is an issue here, since the ADIO is not B4M, so there's no fancy Mac audio driver routing necessary, just go through the measurements as directed by the Bacch software and off you go. Having ORC or not should not affect XTC assesment.
@@tkl0111 Yes there are a few differences between both the units thanks for pointing that out, and that's why in my final thoughts video there'll be a part 1 and a part 2 so that I can adequately explain the differences between the 2 and whether there were any issues in relation to implementation separately.👍🎧🙂
Why am I not surprised? Jason is the biggest dealer of the Baach. He and Edgar have never addressed the concerns I raised about the Baach system to my satisfaction. Because your system is so resolving and already way beyond most in eliminating time domain issues, it most likely exposes th e SQ issues induced by the Baach algorithms. They obviously don't want these videos to drop.
Hi Steve, well, I guess we will find out soon enough, mate. I want to give this every opportunity so that everyone involved, including me, is 100% happy and confident that the system is set up optimally. Then, I will feel confident to talk about my findings, whatever they are.👍🙂🎧
@joachimmagnusson3128 I listed some of them in my comment to Shane's Baach unboxing video. There are many issues created when applying DSP and synthesizing a null signal to cancel inter-aural crosstalk.
@@stevedeharde2712 Well, i can agree on the third item #3 Because this is tuned to an individual's unique hearing in the room, it inherently limits the potential enjoyment for multiple listeners in the space. But i do NOT agree on the other 2 remarks. Of cause the signal has to go through your entire system , including the loudspeakers. Would be pointless otherwise! Does it affect the amplifiers in a negative way? Of cause not! How could it?? What is your understanding of natural SQ, and what do you mean by increase of IMD? I have had the SP Adio now for 6 month and i am very suprised of your findigs!
@HeDidItAllForYou A fairly scary scenario you paint there, my friend, but I can assure you it won't play out that way. My independence, integrity, and opinion will not be stifled by anyone. I'm doing this purely and simply out of due diligence, so that what you get from me in my final thoughts video is well considered and fully explored.🎧🙂👍
Umm... You couldn't be more wrong. Read my comment to get the details. There was no interference or influence as you're implying. It's frustrating to even have to address such allegations, but I understand the skepticism so I wrote a detailed comment to address for anyone who might have similar impressions.
What you may call an influencer, I will call a clarifier. This is not an ordinary component. It requires expert installation and set-up to get one started in the right direction. Anyone attempting to go it on their own will probably fail due to the general ignorance around it.
@AudiophileJunkie Thanks Jason, yes, I would direct people to Jason's comment, which outlines the process to date. I have also been accurate in what has played out up until this pont and will continue to do so until the end.👍
I was going to buy the BACCH for Mac. I decided not to buy it for a few reasons. 1. DSP is questionable 2. I found Edgar to turn me off in my convos. He kinda offended me when he didn’t agree with something I mentioned. I will stick with a good stereo setup for now. Sounds like you are hedging a bit…so feels like it wasn’t a great experience. Getting Jason and Edgar involved sort of feels like maybe you won’t be able to be as honest. Hope you can. I am sure it is hard because Jason and Edgar I am sure trying to help you as much as they can. The ADIO is a very expensive unit. That money can be put into an amazing amp, speakers etc
Edgar is the equivalent of Steve Jobs was to the cell phone to HiFi. Ive bought two Adio’s - sold my dacs, streamers, pre amps got better sound and put money in my pocket. You can get a Bacch for free if you look at the sum of the parts it replaces. If you listen to Bacch you could not defend your point of view. I hope you will because you’re upside down right now
@ I listened to it. It ain’t that great to me. Enjoy your setup. Edgar is not Steve Jobs. Not even close. He has and is doing some good things but to me it ain’t ready for prime time. Shane is a smart dude. If he is having a hard time setting it up then maybe there are issues with the product. Edgar probably needs to go to Australia to figure it out. When speaking to Edgar he seemed a little not willing to take questions without washing over. We will see where BaCCH is in 10 years. It doesn’t have widespread adoption for a reason. For $38k it better be darn good…. Like easy to setup right out of the box. If you gotta futz with it for 6 mo that seems like bogus.
Hi there, thanks for your comment. I have been assured, and it wouldn't have mattered even if I wasn't, that I can say whatever I like about this product. Nobody is holding a gun to my head. The end result here is I am very interested in this process, and I want to give it every opportunity in my system. The ADIO was not, for the most part, a positive experience for me, but there may have been some reasons around that that we're not fully explored the first time around. It had to leave before these things could be sorted out and go to its eventual owner. I really want to do a full and thorough review of this equipment and then tell you guys about my experience with it.🙂🎧
@@revelry1969 indeed Edgar is not Steve Jobs. Edgar is the primary writer of these algorithms. Steve Jobs had his crew do the hard work. If you don't like it so be it. Preferences are personal and inarguable.
Interesting. Thanks for your comment. I would agree with you in relation to the Steve Jobs comment. Not that I know many of them, but I've never come across a dumb rocket scientist yet.👍
Morning from tropical Scotland, I hope everyone is safe and well 😁 I had the pleasure of meeting Jason at axpona, and I can honestly say he's a gentleman. He is passionate about the bacch and knows his stuff, I follow jason and like his approach, people need to remember that when we build a system its for us, its set up and sound profile is made for us not anyone else, yes others enjoy the sound but its tuned to us, its a personal thing, I don't like DCS I find the sound too clinical too detailed for me ( no I haven't listened to their 250k system but have listened to the rest ) but others swear by them its our personal taste, I own naim amps, the olive series to be precise and live the sound but I hate the series after that they changed the sound, the brand new naim amps are a kick back to the olive series and sound good but still not as good in my opinion, there you go same manufacturer different products different experience, anyway please stay safe and well 😁
@paulhallford1904 Thanks for your comment Paul its greatly appreciated as usual.👍
As an owner I appreciate your time taken to be sure that the integration is 100% correct. Anything less and you will not get an appreciation of what this component by Theoretica Applied Physics, not Sciences can do. The better and more refined your current listening situation is, the better your experience will be. The ORC {optimal room correction} module is as much of a true game changer as the BACCH processing is. There are many misconceptions out there by individuals that have not had the opportunity to experience it correctly, or set-up correctly yet thought that they had. Some also wrongly believe that it artificially alters the source material to enhance what you experience.
Everything that you experience while listening to a properly integrated BACCH component has always been there on the recording. You have just never been able to hear it that way before due to room interaction and the inability to listen to true stereo due to the natural crosstalk between the speakers. The BACCH system takes care of those issues by the removal of that incorrect information reaching your ears.
Thanks for the clarification.👍
@@davehousteau6760 this has been my experience and is imo perfectly expressed. It transformed 4 rooms in my family. I have two sp and my sons use B4M
Jason is a legend in his own mind. Follow the direction of Edgar.
@_944audiophile I have a very well-honed nose at sniffing out bullshit. We will let this play out. Jason is giving me an opportunity to become fully acquainted with this system. One thing I promise you is that you will hear the truth about my opinion of this system at the end of all of this. That I can promise you all.🎧🙂👍
@toddt5562 Hi Todd, with the greatest of respect, mate, we need to keep this on topic without getting personal or casting any judgements about anyone. It's one of my no-nos here on the channel. Let's keep it respectful and wait and see what happens. Because I promise you there will be no censoring or fluffing anything I have to say about this system when I've fully explored it.
🎧🙂👍
@_944audiophile Please can we keep this respectfully to everyone. That's all I ask, thanks.
@shanestephenson8423 this type of comment is ironic given what we recently discussed and why I didn't release more parts of our original zoom. If I released the parts that were self serving to me with your compliments, then you get even more of these type guys saying "you only pimp yourself in videos".
@AudiophileJunkie Yes, quite correct. Sometimes you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.👍
GM from frozen 🥶 Toronto.
It seems you’re going to give it an absolute shot at performance 🎭.
I feel that you’re going to be the proverbial cat amongst the pidgins .
Have a fantastic weekend…and I’m off to shovel the snow off my driveway 🥶
Hi mate, I'm not sure about the cat amongst the pigeons. There is a big part of me that just wants to make sure that when I do review this, I am being 100% thorough and not leaving anything out. Nobody is insisting I do this. It was offered to me, and I accepted Jason's offer.
Be careful shovelling that snow mate don't hurt your back.👍🎧
@ I get what you’re saying and support both you and Jason’s exploration of the Bach approach …
Definitely an avenue worth exploring .
Have a great weekend.
@carminedesanto6746 Thanks, mate, you too.🙏👍
Fine to mention the Bacch4Mac is coming from me... It's important to notate a few other details around it.
Most importantly, it's important to note that getting the B4M was the original plan.
That ADIO you had many months ago wasn't yours, and things surrounding that install were atypical of an owner. (It's also important to note that the unit you used was on the way to the actual owner who still has it and loves it and thought he was going to be a part of any review video.)
There was lots of hoops that had to be jumped just to get that unit installed for you being a non-owner at the time, and I'll let you decide how much of that stuff surrounding the unit you want to disclose. As you mentioned though, Edgar is great.
When we discussed it months ago, you felt that you didn't get a good enough experience to do a thorough review, and you didn't want to release such a review. To your credit, that was 100% concluded by you.
It's important to make that clear because I can tell from at least one comment it appears that people think this is something new that transpired. This was just Edgar's suggestion many months ago if you wanted to do a more thorough review with your own unit at a budget more palatable.
Because Edgar doesn't have any units to loan, and he's never loaned units even to major reviewers, we didn't know that whether you went that route was contingent on getting a loaner.
Thus, when you dropped the initial video after all that time, I reached out and asked if you had gotten the B4M.
After talking on the phone about many things I wasn't aware of and also things you weren't aware of with the features of the Bacch, we came to the same conclusion of many months ago...albeit I would loan you mine since Edgar doesn't have any and the customer backlog is too large.
On top of some features and settings that you weren't aware of... You didn't have any measurements captured from your room, and the unit you had didn't have ORC. Thus, even though the B4M is a lower model in the line, it will actually give you both more time and more access to features you didn't know about initially.
It's important to note that this was strictly an option... Even many months ago... You could always do whatever you wanted, but it seemed obvious to both of us that even the lower model B4M would give you a better quality review because of everything surrounding that other unit.
It could still be positive or negative...I think you can echo that nobody has ever told you not to do/say anything.
The key for me was just learning that you needed a loaner so I offered mine.
Thanks, Jason, for your clarification. The information around my part in getting the ADIO for the eventual owner is irrelevant to the review, so I will not be talking about that in my review. It will certainly be interesting to get the B4M here and go through everything to get a full understanding of this system and form my opinion on it. This will be added separately to my opinion on the ADIO when I do my final thoughts video. 👍
Cant wait for the full walkout of the process of the BACCH for MAC, which is more reachable. Thank you
I hear you. I think a lot of people are in the same boat.👍🎧
Shane I’m confused as to how the Bacch-SP ADIO integrates into a 2-channel system, I understand it can be order with a DAC or without so does it replace your streamer/roon core? Or is it connected somewhere else in the digital chain?
Hi Mitchell, The ADIO model has both a digital to analogue converter and an analogue to digital converter installed on board. There is another model that except only digital inputs it is called the DIO it also has a Dac Incorporated. Then there is the BACCH 4 MAC, which you use your own Dac with. And then the top model is called the Grand.
If I've left something out, I'm sure somebody will correct me.
I connected my MPT-8, which is installed with the roon core and server option to the ADIO. With the B4M, I will be using the dream stack MPT-8 & MPD-8. 🎧😁👍
@@shanestephenson8423I would find it very unlikely that the DAC in the Bacch is an improvement on, or a match for the Playback Designs DAC 🧐
@toddt5562 I agree from what I've heard from the ADIO.🎧👍
@@toddt5562The MPD8 is $26k, so the DAC in the $24k ADIO is not going to beat the world class MPD8.
@@shanestephenson8423 thanks for that info Shane. So assuming the Bacch 4 Mac is a software installation that is downloadable for Mac users if they are using their Mac mini as their roon core/streamer and then a digital connection from the Mac into their dac?
I’d be interested to see your connection path for integration within your playback designs pairing.
Seems like a hard sell to opt in for a model where you potentially have to give up your dac and potentially the best connection method from your roon core and endpoint such as a Grimm MU1. A digital connection via AES/EBU doesn’t look like an option into the ADIO/DIO, only SPDIF and optical inputs?
Looking forward to it Shane. Good on ya for taking the time to give this product a fair go. As I understand it, the crosstalk is removed through the Bacch. Is that a good thing? If you're present at a live musical performance, I'm guessing there will be crosstalk present as well. So is the Bacch creating something that doesn't naturally occur? It seems like it may be cool to hear a system under the influence of the Bacch but it's not something that you would hear at a live venue. I am incorrect in this view? But I guess the soundstage created through a stereo system as is also artificial as well. I'm also really interested in the performance of the ORC as it seems to be a next level fix. Do you know if the ORC would be available as a stand alone purchase? Thanks mate. Keep up the great work.
A point of clarification about crosstalk. This is specifically the crosstalk between two speakers and room reflections when playing back a stereo recording. *That* specific crosstalk conflicts with the spatial cues encoded on a stereo recording which compromises the stereo imaging in playback. With live music you are not getting *that* crosstalk. All you are getting is the original spatial cues that we get in real life to hear real life imaging. So the BACCH is eliminating something that does not naturally occur, the crosstalk from two speakers and room reflections that occur when playing back a stereo recording. In fact you can actually record with the BACCH using the in ear microphones used in creating the filters and do a direct A/B comparison between live sound and stereo playback with the BACCH. The imaging is extremely accurate/natural.
There's very little more I can add here around the process of how this system works.👍
Thanks for the clarification Scott
Does it not work by creating crosstalk cancellation? If I want cross-talk cancellation, I'll just put on some headphones. But that's why I don't like headphones.... because they don't sound stage like speakers....😂
Yes, I agree. That's why I'm not a big headphone person either. You just don't get that sense of presents and dimension in the sound stage.👍
Headphones do not have the same effect. The reasons are very technical and involve HRTR properties that do not happen with headphones. Headphones mostly image between our ears unless it's a binaural recording. The BACCH DSP is quite different.
@scottwheeler2679 Thanks for your comment, Scott.👍🎧
I dont quite understand. You can put a super nice and expenisive dac in front of bacch thats takes analog and converts it to digital. In the end when the digital goes back to analog for you amplifers it is going to use its own implemented chip doing to digital to analog right...
Its still just a dsp where you lose the "true analog audiophile signal"
correct me if Im wrong :)
@oskar.i Hi, an excellent question. With the ADIO I used my mpt 8 Roon core and server to feed the digital signal into the ADIO it then did the analogue conversion and sent it to my preamp and on through the conventional signal path of a two channel system. With the B4M, I will be using both my MPT-8(Roon core/server)and MPD-8 Dac.🎧🙂👍
Morning from tropical Scotland 😁 I hope everyone is safe and well 😁 fair play to you for giving the bacch another go, have heard good things about the bacch for mac, I follow Jason and when it come to the bacch he's the guy to speak to apart from Edgar obviously, really nice bloke and his coverage of hifi shows is second to none, like the fact that you want to get the review correct and of that takes time so be it 😁 anyway please stay safe everyone and look after yourselves 😁
Hi Paul, Yes, I agree with all of the above. Both Jason and Edgar have been brilliant. Edgar, with the original installation of the adio and now to have both of them working with me on the installation of the B4M, this will be thorough. I'll be bringing some other experienced audiophiles into my room to listen while I have the system setup, as I do my testing and evaluation before I give my final thoughts on the system.👍🙂🎧
@shanestephenson8423 have fun and enjoy your weekend and that goes to everyone 😁
let´s wait!
@GoncalonevesCorreia thanks for your understanding, man. I think it'll be worth the wait so that I can get this 100% right.
So I would be surprised that the simple omission of the room correction software in the Bach SP Adio is the reason for why you were unable to integrate it into your system. I’m left with the impression that the Adio you received is defective or user error. Is that fair preliminary assessment, Shane? In any event, thanks for your transparency and honesty in delivering this info to us. Look forward to seeing your journey on this one. 🍀🤞😉
@dragocelander6671 Hi Dan, this is a fairly complex system as far as I understand it, and it needs to be fine-tuned, dialled in if you like to get everything 100% right. This process is done by remote hook-up with Edgar. That process took place with a preliminary setup with the ADIO the first time round, but the unit had to be packed up after around 3 weeks of being with me to go to the fellow that purchased it.
The reason I've accepted the offer to review the B4M is I am very curious to evaluate the ORC room correction software. I'm told it really does tie everything together. I've had no experience with it, so yes, out of due diligence, I want to have left no stone unturned before I give my evaluation to you all.
The unit is not defective because it went on to its end user, and there are no issues there from what I understand.🎧🙂👍
Okay Shane. I’m on for the ride on this one. I’m team no one, nor here or there… the comments are loading up from people of both camps! Time for the popcorn I suppose. The thing I don’t understand is why another unit? These are supposed to be from the same family. A simple remote session can address any misconfigs…. Good luck with it. Before anyone chomps on me, I have a unit too.
The plan was always to have a look at the B4M. But after my experiences with the ADIO, I was not prepared to buy one to review it. There are no review samples given out for reviewers. Any reviews that you will have seen for the Bacch are from reviewers that have bought the unit. Jason was kind enough to offer to loan me his B4M, and I accepted his offer so that I could be sure I had given this process every opportunity before talking about it.🙂🎧👍
Hopefully we will eventually get your true thoughts on the ADIO, especially since you're testing the B4M now, hopefully that opinion doesn't change your already formed thought on the ADIO, they are two different products after all.
@tkl0111 Yes, that is a great point, and let me assure you my final thoughts video will be in two separate parts, one for each component. I will definitely be talking independently about the ADIO and the B4M. I don't have the B4M here yet. I expect it toward the end of January, and then the process begins. You will see it all here on the channel. This is going to be a multi-part series now.🎧🙂👍
@@shanestephenson8423 Thanks Shane, appreciate the eventual insight. I think it's good to describe your ADIO setup process, so that your viewers can properly calibrate your evaluation against the setup that you did. I don't think set up is an issue here, since the ADIO is not B4M, so there's no fancy Mac audio driver routing necessary, just go through the measurements as directed by the Bacch software and off you go. Having ORC or not should not affect XTC assesment.
@@tkl0111 Yes there are a few differences between both the units thanks for pointing that out, and that's why in my final thoughts video there'll be a part 1 and a part 2 so that I can adequately explain the differences between the 2 and whether there were any issues in relation to implementation separately.👍🎧🙂
Why am I not surprised? Jason is the biggest dealer of the Baach. He and Edgar have never addressed the concerns I raised about the Baach system to my satisfaction.
Because your system is so resolving and already way beyond most in eliminating time domain issues, it most likely exposes th
e SQ issues induced by the Baach algorithms.
They obviously don't want these videos to drop.
Hi Steve, well, I guess we will find out soon enough, mate. I want to give this every opportunity so that everyone involved, including me, is 100% happy and confident that the system is set up optimally. Then, I will feel confident to talk about my findings, whatever they are.👍🙂🎧
And what are your concerns? I am curious.
@joachimmagnusson3128 I listed some of them in my comment to Shane's Baach unboxing video. There are many issues created when applying DSP and synthesizing a null signal to cancel inter-aural crosstalk.
@@stevedeharde2712 Ok, i will read it.
@@stevedeharde2712 Well, i can agree on the third item #3 Because this is tuned to an individual's unique hearing in the room, it inherently limits the potential enjoyment for multiple listeners in the space.
But i do NOT agree on the other 2 remarks.
Of cause the signal has to go through your entire system , including the loudspeakers. Would be pointless otherwise!
Does it affect the amplifiers in a negative way? Of cause not! How could it??
What is your understanding of natural SQ, and what do you mean by increase of IMD?
I have had the SP Adio now for 6 month and i am very suprised of your findigs!
Oh no. A veil falls on the transparent opinion after the influencers come in. Hope I’m wrong.
@HeDidItAllForYou A fairly scary scenario you paint there, my friend, but I can assure you it won't play out that way. My independence, integrity, and opinion will not be stifled by anyone.
I'm doing this purely and simply out of due diligence, so that what you get from me in my final thoughts video is well considered and fully explored.🎧🙂👍
Umm... You couldn't be more wrong. Read my comment to get the details. There was no interference or influence as you're implying. It's frustrating to even have to address such allegations, but I understand the skepticism so I wrote a detailed comment to address for anyone who might have similar impressions.
What you may call an influencer, I will call a clarifier. This is not an ordinary component. It requires expert installation and set-up to get one started in the right direction. Anyone attempting to go it on their own will probably fail due to the general ignorance around it.
@AudiophileJunkie Thanks Jason, yes, I would direct people to Jason's comment, which outlines the process to date. I have also been accurate in what has played out up until this pont and will continue to do so until the end.👍
@davehousteau2324 It certainly is complex and requires Edgar's assistance to get it dialled in, that is for sure.👍🎧
I was going to buy the BACCH for Mac. I decided not to buy it for a few reasons. 1. DSP is questionable 2. I found Edgar to turn me off in my convos. He kinda offended me when he didn’t agree with something I mentioned. I will stick with a good stereo setup for now. Sounds like you are hedging a bit…so feels like it wasn’t a great experience. Getting Jason and Edgar involved sort of feels like maybe you won’t be able to be as honest. Hope you can. I am sure it is hard because Jason and Edgar I am sure trying to help you as much as they can. The ADIO is a very expensive unit. That money can be put into an amazing amp, speakers etc
Edgar is the equivalent of Steve Jobs was to the cell phone to HiFi. Ive bought two Adio’s - sold my dacs, streamers, pre amps got better sound and put money in my pocket. You can get a Bacch for free if you look at the sum of the parts it replaces. If you listen to Bacch you could not defend your point of view. I hope you will because you’re upside down right now
@ I listened to it. It ain’t that great to me. Enjoy your setup. Edgar is not Steve Jobs. Not even close. He has and is doing some good things but to me it ain’t ready for prime time. Shane is a smart dude. If he is having a hard time setting it up then maybe there are issues with the product. Edgar probably needs to go to Australia to figure it out. When speaking to Edgar he seemed a little not willing to take questions without washing over. We will see where BaCCH is in 10 years. It doesn’t have widespread adoption for a reason. For $38k it better be darn good…. Like easy to setup right out of the box. If you gotta futz with it for 6 mo that seems like bogus.
Hi there, thanks for your comment. I have been assured, and it wouldn't have mattered even if I wasn't, that I can say whatever I like about this product. Nobody is holding a gun to my head. The end result here is I am very interested in this process, and I want to give it every opportunity in my system. The ADIO was not, for the most part, a positive experience for me, but there may have been some reasons around that that we're not fully explored the first time around. It had to leave before these things could be sorted out and go to its eventual owner. I really want to do a full and thorough review of this equipment and then tell you guys about my experience with it.🙂🎧
@@revelry1969 indeed Edgar is not Steve Jobs. Edgar is the primary writer of these algorithms. Steve Jobs had his crew do the hard work. If you don't like it so be it. Preferences are personal and inarguable.
Interesting. Thanks for your comment. I would agree with you in relation to the Steve Jobs comment. Not that I know many of them, but I've never come across a dumb rocket scientist yet.👍