@QuinnsIdeas I'm glad Dennis emphasizes the weakness of the Emperor, by putting the Baron as *main* Antagonist, after all, he who control's the Spice controls the universe. Not the most influence in politics, not the most powerful armies.
@@DrDiabolical000 I suppose it can be a weakness in that they're ill-equipped to regroup, retreat or anything else associated with being defeated. I'm sure they've ran many drills of those scenarios but have no practical experience with them.
@@DrDiabolical000 Because it makes you both overconfident and set in your apparently successful ways, thus averse to adapt to changing circumstances. If you never face any enemy strong enough to defeat you, you cannot really grow any further. And one of the central themes of Dune is evolution/adaption. The Sardaukar were simply set in their ways for so long and so confident of their peerless superiority, that when they faced a truly superior adversary for the first time in centuries, they were unable to change their ways and adapt their tactics.
@DrDiabolical000 Your army has never been defeated. Alright, so you can be sure that you can use the army to crush any rebellion or even the thought of that. Since the army is undefeated, you can divert your attention elsewhere. Now, think about this. What if this lack of attention over thousands of years suddenly came back on you? Your army has never been defeated, but the many people you have defeated aren't gonna stay still. They will change and suddenly, you , or your descendents, really, are faced with an enemy that might be able to defeat you. Remember, your army has never been defeated, the idea never even seemed a possibility. But now, suddenly, someone on some world does manage to defeat you. What do you even do?
Another thing worth mentioning is that this man, this Duke who is popular among the Great Houses and with an army to challenge the might of the Sardukar, is the Emperor's cousin. If there were a rebellion, and it succeeded, the Landsraad might not settle for merely restraining the Emperor's power. An Atreides raised to the throne could be presented as a cadet branch of House Corino, thus not ruffling any aristocratic feathers. This is doubly true if the new Emperor's heir were to wed one of Shadam's own daughters, and the Emperor had no sons.
Potential spoilers: per the first point, the Bene Gesserit were not just the Emperor's weakness, they were potentially his greatest enemy and had possibly already defeated him. They did not just have his ear in a Grima Wormtongue way, and control of his oldest daughter Irulan, but had in fact infiltrated his entire harem and were actively denying him sons. Their end goal wasn't to just control the Emperor, their goal was to place the Bene Gesserit Irulan on the Golden Lion throne and to directly control the entire Empire. This would also allow them majority share control over CHOAM and through it to manipulate the distribution of the Spice Melange, which would in turn give them control over The Guild, who they viewed as having too much power and too stupid to yield it. They could also potentially neuter both the Tlielaxu and the Ixians who the Padishah Emperors had empowered, potentially even setting the stage for war with those cultures. They were plotting this parallel to their plot to create a Kwisatz Haderach: had Jessica borne a daughter that could be wed to Feyd Ruatha, perhaps the Atreides/Harkonnen feud could be ended, but more importantly the child would be the Kwisatz Haderach. The Reverend Mother would then insist this child be raised by Bene Gesserit and once fully under BG control, the Kwisatz Haderach could himself be primed for the Throne, potentially wed to Irulan as the royal puppets. This illustrates why Jessica's act of betrayal weighs so heavily on the Bene Gesserit, but also why the Reverend Mother sees potential in the marriage of Irulan and Paul... it wasnt exactly how they had framed their plot, but she thought it could perhaps be made to work in their favor.
Anirul (Shaddam 's wife) made Shaddam infertile after she had the 5 daughter from him. That's why he hadn' t even a bastard son. Though it is a plothole why he didn't have bastards earlier. He had concubines before Anirul too.
The reason why they only provide him daughters is that they expect the all-powerful male bene gesserit to be born within a generation. In the misogynistic universe of Dune, that's a very powerful reason to prepare a weak throne for his genetic experiment to raise.
To be clear: The plot is for the throne to be occupied by the person they have created, and wedding Irulan only to be a last resort, so if the experiment fails, there's no tumultuous revolt, just another weak puppet. They are maneuvering to AVOID problems related to their gene plot. They require a stable galaxy to play their games. It's better explained inthe prequel trilogy, specially in House Corrino.
@@josecorchete3732 Eh, not interested in Brian Herberts retconned books at all. Just going on the OG source material. Doesnt he also have Gaius Helen Mohiam seducing the Baron?? Nope. Not interested. In Dune, Paul very plainly states that the Bene Gesserit plan is to place one of their own on the throne and Irulan is the one theyve trained for it. As the oldest Corrino heir, she would be Emperor, not some member of a lower house.
The Emperor's greatest weakness is his lack of a male heir. The Bene Gesserit can control their own biochemistry to change the gender of the fetus. His Bene Gesserit wife Anirul ensured there would be no son to oppose their Kwisatz Haderach or carry on the Corrino name. She even went so far as to sterilize him in the Brian Herbert prequels, after the birth of their last daughter.
Mmmm.. maybe. Perhaps closer to OPEC. But that analogy is also limited. CHOAM is weird. The whole CHOAM-Guild-Empire-BG system is never really fully explained. If the emperor can distribute planets on a whim, you have wonder at the power of CHOAM. After all, directorships and shares are only as valuable as long as someone is there to enforce that system. If a faction (Atreides) is being cut out of the herd, you'd think the other members of CHOAM would realise their danger.
Walk without rhythm It won't attract the worm Walk without rhythm And it won't attract the worm Walk without rhythm And it won't attract the worm If you walk without rhythm Ah, you never learn, yeah
@QuinnsIdeas I'm glad Dennis emphasizes the weakness of the Emperor, by putting the Baron as *main* Antagonist, after all, he who control's the Spice controls the universe. Not the most influence in politics, not the most powerful armies.
The baron is indeed the main antagonist of the first book, however, he is not in charge of the spice. The baron is fearful that what could happen to the Atreides, could happen to him, too. He has explicit orders from the Emperor: make the spice flow, or else. In that sense, the baron is a puppet.
@@w0mblemania not really. If that were the case, then the Emperor wouldn't need to replace the Baron to set the Duke up for ambush, he would've just outright attacked the Duke. But as Quinn described in this video, the Emperor *needed* the Baron to do the dirty work, but even still it would've weakened the Emperor even still. Because publicly the Baron would appear to be acting on his vendetta, but privately the Emperor would've been indebted to the Baron in such a way that the Baron could effectively replace the Emperor without even having to put up a fight. So in conclusion, who was playing whom as a puppet???
@@Yujifanik The Emperor couldn't just attack Atreides outright. Firstly, Leto's power base in the Landsraad has been increasing. He has powerful friends who could come to his aid. An outright attack by the Emperor against a rival would be seen as by the Landsraad as a power grab. Secondly, this would give the Emperor direct control of the flow of spice. Probably not too tenable to the Landsraad (and others). Thirdly, the Atreide's military has come to rival the Sardaukar. The Emperor's forces alone may not be enough to kill off the Atreides. But the Sardaukar, combined with Harkonnen forces and Guild duplicity, was doable. The baron is a weak man, in a weak position. He only holds Arrakis -- and thus a chunk of its profits and power -- only as a gift of the Empire. The Emperor uses the baron to do his dirty work. This way, both win.
@@w0mblemania Everything you listed I was aware of. In the books, the Emperor had to get rid of the Atreides, but *couldn't* be seen doing so openly in order to prevent a rebellion in the Landsraad, hence why he needed the Baron to do w/ the covert help of the Sardaukar, in Harkonnen uniforms. However what your missing is this. Publicly the Baron would be solely responsible for the destruction of the Atreides, but privately the Emperor would be indebted to the Baron, the only way the Emperor could get out of *that* position was to destroy the Harkonnens and thus reveal his part in the coup against the Atreides. So the Emperor would have been in an untenable position. If he betrays the Harkonnens he's revealed as the chief perpetrator to the coup against the Atreides, if he maintains the alliance w/ the Harkonnens, the Harkonnens have a shot at the Golden Lion Throne by sheer necessity to keep the alliance hidden from the rest of the Landsraad. As Quinn stated the Emperor was dangerously complacent, he would've gotten rid of the Atreides, but would be so indebted to the Harkonnens, the Baron could pressure the Emperor to the sidelines by the sheer political weight of his, The Emperor's, part in the coup. Which was the Baron's plan all along.
The problem with the dune movie is not attention span, rather it is lack of context. We don’t get the internal narration that characterizes the book, nor are we given additional dialogue to explain whats going on. Which is fine if you are already very familiar with the book (as everyone here likely is) since its close enough to a straight adaptation for you to fill in the blanks, however if you are not it means that a lot of what is happening does not make sense, or does not accurately communicate its importance to you as a member of the audience. And thereby it becomes boring since its just a lot of stuff happening none of which means much to you, which just leads to confusion. To be effective for a mass audience who may have never seen it before, a movie must be easy to understand even with no background in the source material. - For example, even if you have never read the books, you will understand whats happening in the Lord of the Rings movies perfectly, since it takes the time to explain everything clearly within the movie itself rather than expecting you to fill in the blanks, book readers may know some additional trivia but none of it is crucial to the experience. But the same cannot be said for dune, which makes it difficult for new viewers. I personally did not have a problem with it, but i personally read through my copy of the entire series in preparation before it came out, and it is unreasonable to expect that level of dedication from general audiences who are just trying to see a movie with their friends. Several of the people i went with (sci-fi fans, but not dune fans specifically) ended up being confused about basic concepts that would have been obvious in the book, and needed further explanation from me to understand what they had just seen. Which is not ideal. People who do not have someone to explain it to them may find themselves even more disconnected and confused, and thereby find themselves getting a bit bored despite the visual spectacle.
@@Duncan_Idaho84 People call everything just "bad" or "lazy" nowadays and think they're a critic but they mostly not understand "show don't tell" and then find things boring
I have been a sci-fi fan for 47 years, starting with a large box of my father's paperbacks with Asimov, Blish, Poel, etc. I am back to reading every day now as I recuperate from a long episode of severe depression. I enjoy this channel and am grateful for the comment section which has led me to discover modern (post 1970) novels that are wonderfully entertaining. I'm into book 4 of Iain Banks Culture series. It's hard to believe it is as old as it is. I'm plowing through them one after another. Bless Amazon and Kindle. Kindle knows what I read and how long my attention is captivated and also provides good suggestions. It'salso nice to receive a novel within 5 seconds of placing the order.
Reading has saved me many times indeed.. diving into other universes can be a great transition before emerging back into reality and sociability after long episodes of solitude. Though local independant libraries (if there is any near you) would benefit more from your money rather than Amazon ;)
His historian/Bene Gesserit daughter Irulan, being a voice in the novel itself, quoted in epigraphs, made her a powerful presence if not a central character. I remembered her and had a better picture of her than that of her Emperor father.
Yes, but I am looking forward to seeing the Throne Room and the Golden Lion Throne. The original movie did such a disservice to the image of this grand room that I had built up in my mind. "With the tiles from a million worlds inlaid in it's floor." Even better that god awful battle station thing the emperor sat at at the end of the movie. WTF was that all about?
Irulan was very interesting. Trained by the BG, but didn't become a Reverend Mother. She was a "failed" BG. The conspirators of Dune Messiah are very dismissive of her. She was just a tool, for them. Similarly, Jessica thought little of her (Children of Dune).
Another crucial weakness is the Emperor has no male heir. This may be because the BG have blocked it through their arts or because he is too selfish to want one. Maybe the BG were opening the throne for their KH? That also explains Leto's reason for not marrying Jessica, as he hoped politically he might marry Irulan and ascend the throne.
I thought so for a minute too, but the sisterhood controls the genetics of all major Houses, all except the Atreides anomaly. The capacity of attracting loyalty they so cherished in that bloodline backfired on them.
I think I'd add this very big weakness: he did not understand the nature of the Atreides before the betrayal whatsoever. It simply didn't include imperial ambition. They aspired to be The Best Damn Dukes, but that was all. Anything else wouldn't even have occurred to Leto, and Paul had to be goaded by circumstances the emperor created and prescience informed race consciousness to do it...and even then that wasn't a matter of ambition. Sure, Leto II ended up being like "Well, in for a penny in for a pre-worm," but he inherited a mess that wouldn't even have existed if Shaddam had just trusted Atreides loyalty.
Charles Dance as Tywin Lannister is one of the best things ive seen in movies/shows. Such a perfect casting and performance. Its up there with Ian McShane as Al Swearengen. But Walken as Emperor, this can be fantastic!
I don't know if you've mentioned this before, but I always had a doubt. On a certain occasion in the first book, Irulan reports a recent rebuke of her father for not having male children, and for the daughter not being old enough to have married Duke Leto. In that case, why didn't the Emperor want to marry Paul to Irulan before deciding on war?
Paul is a natural son (out of wedlock, Leto never married), Irulan would not be married away like that. But a legitimatised Paul, married to the princess gives the Landsraad a chance to kick Shaddam and use that to gain positions with the new boss. Leto is just buying time, and himself not marrying anyone keeps his actual family safe. The plan to isolate them in Arrakis, sabotage spice harvest to justify a Harkonnen takeover with Imperial help appeared to be from the Baron. Both also made money by stashing spice beforehand and playing the market when the flow trickled down.
Seriously he was doing all sorts of shady shit which alienated many in the lansrad. He also worked with the least reputable house making them rich over much better houses. The emperor was making secret enemies the entire time he was in that position. The big weakness is the shady things as Paul removed him for it.
This video is excellent. It gets to the heart of the story because, in a way, the Emperor is at the center of the story in the book Dune. He is a catalyst for the phenomenon that is Paul Atreidis.
Not sure about the walken casting!!! I love him but in order for it to work for me I would have to see a side of him I never seen before. He’s been dark and cold before but there was always a underlying cool swag. Pretty much the only ? mark I have for dune 2
I never would have found your channel if it wasn't for the New Dune movies, thank you. You very clearly break down what is precious from the Dune novels
Hey Quinn. I must say, you sir, are my go-to guy for all things DUNE. Your level of understanding for the core material is impressive to say the least.
I remember years ago falling in love with the dune series all over again thanks to Quinn’s dune explained videos. I’m glad to see this creator expanded beyond dune and became a more general science fiction channel, but anytime Quinn releases a dune video I’m all over it
Yeah I wish adaptations would stop spoiling the role of the spice in the space travels, it's supposed to be a plot twist... Saying that it greatly extent life would be reason enough to believe why spice is such an unique, rare and prized substance.
Dune will always be my favourite sci fi. I may like others but I’ll always have an Arrakis shaped hole in my heart. I love it when you talk about dune. Thanks quinn
how am i only just discovering your channel?? everything on here is so good especially the cosmic horror stuff, you are thought fuel and educational in the coolest ways possible, please keep going for a very long time
I never understood why Shaddam would let the most strategic ressource control in the hand of a vassal. Was he obligated to delegate by the virtue of a constitutionnal separation of power? Also he lacks an heir, which means that any noble house with a male heir will want to seize power by marrying his daughter.
By letting Arrakis be delegated, it allows the Emperor to bestow wealth on whoever he chose. This encourages the various houses to try and curry favor either with the Emperor or the Emperor's favorites. This reinforces the feudal structure, while if the Emperor had Arrakis all to himself then you would have the various Houses trying to work together against the Emperor. As to the lack of an heir, this is due to his wife being a Bene Gesserit and helping to choose the gender of the Emperor's kids, and apparently women can't be the Emperor.
The power of the Landsraad is greater than the power of house Corrino. The Landsraad would never let the Emperor hold not only Arrakis with its spice production and them a majority holding in its distribution. By making it a fiefdom that the emperor controlled he could control who gained the wealth of spice production, while still maintaining the majority of the wealth generated by distribution which is more valuable. Spice was a raw material that was mined and then sold to be used in many different products and House Corrino got a portion of the wealth at every stage. The reason why House Corrino doesn't just invade Caladan is because the Emperor can't win a war with a united landsraad against him. And the greatest fear the Houses of the Landsraad have is that of House Corrino picking them off one by one.
6 videos in the span of a week holy!. i really appreciate your content and the time you spent to create these videos for us, there is something so cozy about watching your videos late at night getting introduced to genres and stories i wouldve never come across if it wasnt for your videos. Stay awesome brother
This is one of the BEST science fiction channels. I don't care for Herbert or Octavia Butler, but I still look forward to watching your videos on them.
hey, I just want to say thank you for making these videos. Scifi isnt my genre of choice, but I love hearing passionate people talk about what they love. You've introduced me to series and really concepts I never would have run into otherwise, and I appreciate it!
Thanks a lot for the lore content. I work 60 hour weeks and don’t have enough time to read or look up. But I get my best work done when I have long vids to listen too. Thanks again and please keep up the content!!!
Was it stated in the book how Shaddam planned to handle his succession? Was he planning to eventually bear a son, pass the throne to Irulan, to some nephew, or was he planning on not dying?
The prequel trilogy of books handle those questions. They go a lot more in-depth with the factions present in the Dune's universe previously to Paul. In short: Nobody but the Bene Geserit really knows that they can choose a lot of things, like the gender of their offspring or passing specific diseases. People suspect things, but the real array of tools at their disposal is mostly unknown.
@Helios Megistos They were written by his son, and they simply expand in the factions that form the political environment of the empire, and some of the other plots that are being carried on in the original books. I found them well written and enjoyable, also a good way to read more of the Dune's universe from a person that is supposed to be honest and faithful with it, which imo, is the case.
He was still young enough to have kids (Irulan says he looks mid-thirties, like Duke Leto. And in the 3rd book we learn of a nephew through his sister.
The prequels don’t count because Brian Herbert didn’t know or respect his father’s work well enough to add to it. He undermines themes and provides ludicrous explanations for things that are supposed to be mysteries. Enjoy them if you like but they are not part of the Dune series
One thing I don't remember from the Dune novels. Why did House Atreides have to relinquish Caladan for Arrakis, when House Harkonnen kept Geidi Prime during their rule of Arrakis? I understand it was part of the ploy by the Baron and the Emperor to put the Atreides in a weak position, but was there any pretense given?
I don't think they had to relinquish Caladan. They would have kept the planet, its "sea power" ec. Rather, they were given Arrakis as a fiefdom. A territory to control, and profit from, as long as they produced spce. Publicly, it was presented as a reward to the Atreides, and they couldn't refuse it. Even if the Duke saw through it all, it still represented vast wealth and power if they could keep it.
Jessica left Arrakis and went back to Caladan with Gurney. After Paul walked into the desert, Arrakis was under the stewardship of Alia and Irulan until Leto came of age (if my ageing brain serves me correctly).
His weakness is that he assumes everyone wants spice and no one would wantonly destroy it. When faced with someone who would, he doesn’t know what to do.
For one, it wasn’t known that the spice could be destroyed. Secondly, it is something only a madman or a fanatic would do. It would have been genocide against the Fremen and the Navigators, and suicide for Paul and his family. Then there is the second order effect of no more space travel. Paul did the equivalent of a Dr. Evil Scheme. “Make me the Messiah-Emperor of Mankind or I will spontaneously combust every fossil fuel deposit on earth.” No one is actually ready for Dr Evil and no one was ready for Paul Muad'dib.
Do anyone think frank herbert wrote the story taking some aspects of Alexander the greats life? The father die when he was young Became a king Went out to conquer the world Died young.
There are similarities for sure. But Frank Herbert seems to have built the character of Paul Atreides on Lawrence of Arabia! There are lots of analogies between the two.
Your videos rock! I would not have finished Children of Dune yesterday if it wasn’t for you. I’m going to buy the next trilogy (with those new beautiful book covers) today! Thank you so much !
The appendices of the first dune book also mentioned the emperor was pompous and had too many generals for the dardaukar and not enough fund spent on training it.
Videos are too short. Luv hearing Your voice on DUNE. Glad you're coming back with the movie, can't wait to hear Your Review of it. Take Care, brother.
The best thing about Dune is that every character, no matter how much of an antagonist or how “irrelevant” they might be to the protagonist, is in their own way intelligent and skilled. There’s no throw away dumbness for the sake of plot armor or to make the main protagonist look good. Everyone in Dune is skilled and intelligent in some way.
I want to present a counter argument here. I don't view the betrayal of house Atreides as an example of the Emperor's weakness but an example of his still considerable strength. All actions carry risk, doing nothing about House Atreides would have been a sign of weakness because the gap between the Saddukar and house troops was closing. That was a real issue, and waiting until the Atreides acted in a couple of generations would have sealed the doom of House Corrino. Couple this with the popularity of Duke Leto and by all reports his son instilled that same Charisma and you are a asking to be dethroned. Acting while the House was still weak is a sign of strength and intelligence not weakness and foolishness because inaction would have been worse, better take the risk of action then let inaction seal your fate. And the risk was really low. The plan was brilliant, it was a plan that insured mutual assured destruction, so House Harkonnen couldn't betray the Emperor without destroying themselves. It shifts the lion's share of the risk to troops and expense to be carried by House Harkonnen, the Saddukar were in House Harkonnen uniforms so they appeared to be from witnesses as Harkonnen troops. There was established hatred between House Harkonnen and House Atreides so the idea that the Baron would drain his treasury to destroy House Atredies doesn't appear odd at all. And House Harkonnen held the fiefdom of Arrakis long enough for them to have accumulated enough wealth to pay for the attack. It wasn't just possible that House Harkonnen would act this way given a chance it was plausible especially after the Duke insulted the Baron before the Landsraad, when the Baron made a gesture of peace. The only difference was SCALE but the Baron doesn't have a reputation of being reasonable so that he would spend everything/go into debt for this isn't out of character. This is vital for the plan to work because it makes it appear to be house on House vendetta vs Imperial interference. Having all these factors align perfectly allowed the Emperor to strike and to strike with 99.999% effectiveness, it is only because Paul was trained as a mentant, as a Bene Gesserit, also trained in the Atreides combat style and just so happened to be the Kwisatz Haderach does the plan fail to kill Paul. Take any of these things away and he either dies in the attack, by the drone assassination attempt or in the desert. And Paul surviving still isn't a "failure" of the plan. The only way Paul wins is if Arrakis hides a great secret that the Fremen are hidden in vast numbers. In hindsight we can look back and say, "well YEAH! OBVIOUSLY!" but for millennia every census, patrol and report says the Fremen in the desert are in tiny numbers not enough to raise a modern army with and not enough to worry about or have Galactic scale intrigues hinge on them. Even House Atredies doesn't suspect their number until Duncan goes there and being the man he is, is able to befriend the Freman and gleam the secret, and that happens only AFTER the plan is set in motion. I doubt Gurney Halleck could have befriended the Freman and gleamed their secret. It was the particular characteristics of Duncan that win out here so this secret not only is well hidden it isn't inevitable that House Atreides would find this out let alone the Emperor. I think people think oh it failed ergo it was a stupid plan but it wasn't at all. It was rather Brilliant in my opinion.
Agreed. You can't call the emperor "weak" because his plan fell to a series of unpredictable "Deus ex machina". As you stated, Paul happened to be the Kwisatz Haderach, and the Fremen, a non-factor for thousands of years, happened to be a stronger army than the Sardaukar. The Fremen rallied under Paul because an old Fremen myth happened to say that their messiah would be born to a Bene Gesserit. It's not like Shaddam IV could have predicted any of that. If he had been outdone by forces he knew about, like the Atreides, the Guild or the Harkonnen for example, you could call him weak. But here, he lost to a series of events no one could have predicted.
Great video. I'm loving all your stuff. Normally, I'm not one to binge, but your channel is so much fun I've made an exception. Thanks for spending so much effort making stuff like this.
Lack of a male heir is also a great factor of growing instability and fragility of House Corrino as a ruling power. It opens up possibility and necessity of some kind of dynastic alliance, and possible transition of power.
The emperor was an old man with no male heir. This was the greatest weakness and the rapidly approaching doom of his house. In contrast, the Atreides house was gifted with a male heir because Jessica defied the Bene Gesserit order. That was the strength of the Atreides charisma. Jessica had so much love for her Duke that she defied the Bene Gesserit and gave House Atreides a son that they never should have had. Not mentioning this in the video is missing a huge theme from the book.
When I watched new Dune I noticed that in the scene on Caladan all nobles accompanying Herold of Change were covering their heads with masks, just like Navigators. I was wondering: are those futuristic knight armors? Do nobles are afraid of infection while traveling between planets? I imagined that in Part 2 Padishah Emperor would be portrayed as a extremely germophobic person: he never leaves his palace, his court is under drastic cordon sanitaire, everyone who wants to visit a court have to go through incovienient disinifection... what a powerful symbol of authority which is paranoid and isolated from an outside world.
Winning might come easily, but governing effectively is far more challenging. His downfall was inevitable as he relied solely on his military might, without comprehending the deeper dynamics of his realm.
Epic video yet again. Great breakdown and your breakdowns of The Three Body Problem was why I read the series. I’ve already read the Dune six but makes me want to re-read
Great video. I would add the Navigators as another weakness. Nothing moves without them. they could show up and dictate to the emperor when they had a concern - which is different from how the reverend mother did things, but still, it's clear who was superior in that relationship. They could cut him (whatever planet he was on) off from the rest of the galaxy at any time - effectively deleting him, his army and his planets from the galactic civilization without firing a shot. It's an interesting question whether they or the Bene Gesseret were in a stronger position. But the emperor wasn't the real power compared to either of them. One thing I never understood (of many) about these books is why the navigators preferred their soft touch approach to ruling the galaxy. Why didn't they just take over and issue orders? Was it because they didn't care about 99% of what the emperor or houses did? Or they felt safer not being directly in the line of fire? Or they were occupied with their spice driven super-human evolution?
I'm still reading the first Dune book, and just starting Muad'Dib the second section, and Paul says to his mother that they're addicted to spice and that they're forever stuck on Arrakis now. Wouldn't that make the navigators incredibly weak as well, being that they're addicted to spice?
@@vongregor1 EVERYONE in dune is addicted to the spice. The navigators required it to be navigators and - I agree with you - to keep living. But the emperor had taken plenty to extend his lifespan - so him too. The navigators still had a much stronger position than the emperor. They could only be brought to heel by Paul and then Leto - who exerted such total control of spice for such an indefinite period of time that the navigators had no choice but to obey.
I didn’t get the impression that the emperor was aware of the potential of the fremen as the harkonnen didn’t say anything about them to him beyond them being a pest. It wasn’t until the sardaukar encountered them in combat that he would have been told of them, assuming that such information was passed on by the sardaukar officers.
Wait until y'all see Part II. Walken only has 3-4 scenes in the film (two of which were partially seen in the last trailer) but he is the Emperor in a way no one else ever could be & it ties into your point about his family's opulence & immeasurable wealth.
The guild controlled all bug did not want to harvest the spice directly. All else were pawns. Its not who controls the spice, but who controls space travel. Only someoe on arrakis, controling the spice directly, can control the guild.
My favoritevpart about the Dune (the book), is that we, as a reader, can see the appearing cracks, even if Padishah-Emperor cannot (or, likely, he can, but is unable to do anything about it). Eroding of the Sardaukar corps, rise of Fremen, Bene Gesserit's plotting, opposition of Landsraat and the wild card, that was Paul Atreides and rise of a new militant and expanding faith. Yet I doubt he would posdibly concieve, that there will be no Imperium after his rule. I imagine, this is position Flavius Aetius and Romulus Augustulus were in - able to see times a-changin, but unable to see entire enemy's hand or their own downfall.
If you guys are not getting audio, try watching on a desktop, or refresh. It's just RUclips being slow at the video possessing!
@QuinnsIdeas I'm glad Dennis emphasizes the weakness of the Emperor, by putting the Baron as *main* Antagonist, after all, he who control's the Spice controls the universe. Not the most influence in politics, not the most powerful armies.
It’s not loading at all. It just says “No stream Tap to retry”
I've never seen Christopher Walken not play Christopher Walken. I wonder how this is going to play out.
Dang RUclips can't handle Quinn's luxurious voice.
Can Christopher Walken pull back his identifiable accent?
The emperors weakness is that he’s got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
Thankyou for this
The cowbell is useless on Arrakis. It will call every worm from miles around.
”Paul! I gotta need more cowbell!”
Ha Ha Yess! 🤘
@@BaoNguyen-bh2rk not necessarily a bad thing
One of the weaknesses is his army of Sardaukar never faced a defeat, which Paul realized in the books.
The Emperor needed a Kobayashi Maru
I don't understand. How is that a weakness?
@@DrDiabolical000 I suppose it can be a weakness in that they're ill-equipped to regroup, retreat or anything else associated with being defeated. I'm sure they've ran many drills of those scenarios but have no practical experience with them.
@@DrDiabolical000 Because it makes you both overconfident and set in your apparently successful ways, thus averse to adapt to changing circumstances. If you never face any enemy strong enough to defeat you, you cannot really grow any further.
And one of the central themes of Dune is evolution/adaption.
The Sardaukar were simply set in their ways for so long and so confident of their peerless superiority, that when they faced a truly superior adversary for the first time in centuries, they were unable to change their ways and adapt their tactics.
@DrDiabolical000 Your army has never been defeated. Alright, so you can be sure that you can use the army to crush any rebellion or even the thought of that.
Since the army is undefeated, you can divert your attention elsewhere.
Now, think about this.
What if this lack of attention over thousands of years suddenly came back on you? Your army has never been defeated, but the many people you have defeated aren't gonna stay still.
They will change and suddenly, you
, or your descendents, really, are faced with an enemy that might be able to defeat you.
Remember, your army has never been defeated, the idea never even seemed a possibility. But now, suddenly, someone on some world does manage to defeat you.
What do you even do?
To quote Bane: "Victory has defeated you."
Another thing worth mentioning is that this man, this Duke who is popular among the Great Houses and with an army to challenge the might of the Sardukar, is the Emperor's cousin.
If there were a rebellion, and it succeeded, the Landsraad might not settle for merely restraining the Emperor's power. An Atreides raised to the throne could be presented as a cadet branch of House Corino, thus not ruffling any aristocratic feathers. This is doubly true if the new Emperor's heir were to wed one of Shadam's own daughters, and the Emperor had no sons.
The emperor's weakness is also his greatest strength. No one dares to challenge him to a dance off!
Of course not! He'll bring his Weapon Of Choice!
That is why Paul, who can kill either a word will obviously challenge him to a rap battle.
If you walk without rhythm, you won't attract the worm. (Is this why Quinn used that picture?)
@@sblinder1978 JFC, is that song an ode to Dune!? Min = blown🤯
The emperor is a trained dancer, I now remember.
Potential spoilers: per the first point, the Bene Gesserit were not just the Emperor's weakness, they were potentially his greatest enemy and had possibly already defeated him. They did not just have his ear in a Grima Wormtongue way, and control of his oldest daughter Irulan, but had in fact infiltrated his entire harem and were actively denying him sons. Their end goal wasn't to just control the Emperor, their goal was to place the Bene Gesserit Irulan on the Golden Lion throne and to directly control the entire Empire. This would also allow them majority share control over CHOAM and through it to manipulate the distribution of the Spice Melange, which would in turn give them control over The Guild, who they viewed as having too much power and too stupid to yield it. They could also potentially neuter both the Tlielaxu and the Ixians who the Padishah Emperors had empowered, potentially even setting the stage for war with those cultures.
They were plotting this parallel to their plot to create a Kwisatz Haderach: had Jessica borne a daughter that could be wed to Feyd Ruatha, perhaps the Atreides/Harkonnen feud could be ended, but more importantly the child would be the Kwisatz Haderach. The Reverend Mother would then insist this child be raised by Bene Gesserit and once fully under BG control, the Kwisatz Haderach could himself be primed for the Throne, potentially wed to Irulan as the royal puppets. This illustrates why Jessica's act of betrayal weighs so heavily on the Bene Gesserit, but also why the Reverend Mother sees potential in the marriage of Irulan and Paul... it wasnt exactly how they had framed their plot, but she thought it could perhaps be made to work in their favor.
Anirul (Shaddam 's wife) made Shaddam infertile after she had the 5 daughter from him. That's why he hadn' t even a bastard son.
Though it is a plothole why he didn't have bastards earlier. He had concubines before Anirul too.
The reason why they only provide him daughters is that they expect the all-powerful male bene gesserit to be born within a generation. In the misogynistic universe of Dune, that's a very powerful reason to prepare a weak throne for his genetic experiment to raise.
To be clear: The plot is for the throne to be occupied by the person they have created, and wedding Irulan only to be a last resort, so if the experiment fails, there's no tumultuous revolt, just another weak puppet. They are maneuvering to AVOID problems related to their gene plot. They require a stable galaxy to play their games.
It's better explained inthe prequel trilogy, specially in House Corrino.
@@josecorchete3732 Eh, not interested in Brian Herberts retconned books at all. Just going on the OG source material. Doesnt he also have Gaius Helen Mohiam seducing the Baron?? Nope. Not interested.
In Dune, Paul very plainly states that the Bene Gesserit plan is to place one of their own on the throne and Irulan is the one theyve trained for it. As the oldest Corrino heir, she would be Emperor, not some member of a lower house.
@@sectorgovernor Im really only interested in the source material.
The Emperor's greatest weakness is his lack of a male heir. The Bene Gesserit can control their own biochemistry to change the gender of the fetus. His Bene Gesserit wife Anirul ensured there would be no son to oppose their Kwisatz Haderach or carry on the Corrino name.
She even went so far as to sterilize him in the Brian Herbert prequels, after the birth of their last daughter.
CHOAM is basically an allegory for the East India Company under the British Empire.
Mmmm.. maybe.
Perhaps closer to OPEC. But that analogy is also limited.
CHOAM is weird. The whole CHOAM-Guild-Empire-BG system is never really fully explained.
If the emperor can distribute planets on a whim, you have wonder at the power of CHOAM.
After all, directorships and shares are only as valuable as long as someone is there to enforce that system. If a faction (Atreides) is being cut out of the herd, you'd think the other members of CHOAM would realise their danger.
It's like any power entity, be that WEF WHO NATO CFR BILDERBERG GROUP
Definitely more like OPEC. The value of spice means the entire empire is really giant corporation
Cant wait to see Christopher Walken as the Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV
Bring in...that...floating fatman...the Baron.
Now Paul, I got a fever, and the only prescription...
...Is More CowBell!!!!
I feel like he'd fit that role perfectly...
The Emperor has a specific Weapon of Choice.
@@100Servings sure hope someone cgis the old video to have him wearing his Emperor costume while floating around lol
Walk without rhythm
It won't attract the worm
Walk without rhythm
And it won't attract the worm
Walk without rhythm
And it won't attract the worm
If you walk without rhythm
Ah, you never learn, yeah
The imperial throne room looks suspiciously like the lobby of a Marriott
Yo bigshot
Don't be shocked by the tone of my VOICE.
I never cease to be amazed at what a very complex and well thought out story Dune is!
@QuinnsIdeas I'm glad Dennis emphasizes the weakness of the Emperor, by putting the Baron as *main* Antagonist, after all, he who control's the Spice controls the universe. Not the most influence in politics, not the most powerful armies.
The baron is indeed the main antagonist of the first book, however, he is not in charge of the spice.
The baron is fearful that what could happen to the Atreides, could happen to him, too.
He has explicit orders from the Emperor: make the spice flow, or else.
In that sense, the baron is a puppet.
@@w0mblemania not really. If that were the case, then the Emperor wouldn't need to replace the Baron to set the Duke up for ambush, he would've just outright attacked the Duke. But as Quinn described in this video, the Emperor *needed* the Baron to do the dirty work, but even still it would've weakened the Emperor even still. Because publicly the Baron would appear to be acting on his vendetta, but privately the Emperor would've been indebted to the Baron in such a way that the Baron could effectively replace the Emperor without even having to put up a fight.
So in conclusion, who was playing whom as a puppet???
@@Yujifanik The Emperor couldn't just attack Atreides outright.
Firstly, Leto's power base in the Landsraad has been increasing. He has powerful friends who could come to his aid.
An outright attack by the Emperor against a rival would be seen as by the Landsraad as a power grab.
Secondly, this would give the Emperor direct control of the flow of spice. Probably not too tenable to the Landsraad (and others).
Thirdly, the Atreide's military has come to rival the Sardaukar. The Emperor's forces alone may not be enough to kill off the Atreides. But the Sardaukar, combined with Harkonnen forces and Guild duplicity, was doable.
The baron is a weak man, in a weak position. He only holds Arrakis -- and thus a chunk of its profits and power -- only as a gift of the Empire. The Emperor uses the baron to do his dirty work. This way, both win.
@@w0mblemania Everything you listed I was aware of.
In the books, the Emperor had to get rid of the Atreides, but *couldn't* be seen doing so openly in order to prevent a rebellion in the Landsraad, hence why he needed the Baron to do w/ the covert help of the Sardaukar, in Harkonnen uniforms.
However what your missing is this. Publicly the Baron would be solely responsible for the destruction of the Atreides, but privately the Emperor would be indebted to the Baron, the only way the Emperor could get out of *that* position was to destroy the Harkonnens and thus reveal his part in the coup against the Atreides.
So the Emperor would have been in an untenable position. If he betrays the Harkonnens he's revealed as the chief perpetrator to the coup against the Atreides, if he maintains the alliance w/ the Harkonnens, the Harkonnens have a shot at the Golden Lion Throne by sheer necessity to keep the alliance hidden from the rest of the Landsraad.
As Quinn stated the Emperor was dangerously complacent, he would've gotten rid of the Atreides, but would be so indebted to the Harkonnens, the Baron could pressure the Emperor to the sidelines by the sheer political weight of his, The Emperor's, part in the coup. Which was the Baron's plan all along.
*I rewatched Dune the other day* and all I gotta say is : How low are people’s attention span if that movie is considered “boring” ?
Because they are boring people!
The problem with the dune movie is not attention span, rather it is lack of context. We don’t get the internal narration that characterizes the book, nor are we given additional dialogue to explain whats going on. Which is fine if you are already very familiar with the book (as everyone here likely is) since its close enough to a straight adaptation for you to fill in the blanks, however if you are not it means that a lot of what is happening does not make sense, or does not accurately communicate its importance to you as a member of the audience. And thereby it becomes boring since its just a lot of stuff happening none of which means much to you, which just leads to confusion.
To be effective for a mass audience who may have never seen it before, a movie must be easy to understand even with no background in the source material. - For example, even if you have never read the books, you will understand whats happening in the Lord of the Rings movies perfectly, since it takes the time to explain everything clearly within the movie itself rather than expecting you to fill in the blanks, book readers may know some additional trivia but none of it is crucial to the experience. But the same cannot be said for dune, which makes it difficult for new viewers.
I personally did not have a problem with it, but i personally read through my copy of the entire series in preparation before it came out, and it is unreasonable to expect that level of dedication from general audiences who are just trying to see a movie with their friends. Several of the people i went with (sci-fi fans, but not dune fans specifically) ended up being confused about basic concepts that would have been obvious in the book, and needed further explanation from me to understand what they had just seen. Which is not ideal. People who do not have someone to explain it to them may find themselves even more disconnected and confused, and thereby find themselves getting a bit bored despite the visual spectacle.
Its very bad movie if you read the books
@@Montv3 It’s a bad movie? I thought they did a great job of hitting all the major beats of the story?
@@Duncan_Idaho84 People call everything just "bad" or "lazy" nowadays and think they're a critic but they mostly not understand "show don't tell" and then find things boring
I have been a sci-fi fan for 47 years, starting with a large box of my father's paperbacks with Asimov, Blish, Poel, etc. I am back to reading every day now as I recuperate from a long episode of severe depression. I enjoy this channel and am grateful for the comment section which has led me to discover modern (post 1970) novels that are wonderfully entertaining. I'm into book 4 of Iain Banks Culture series. It's hard to believe it is as old as it is. I'm plowing through them one after another. Bless Amazon and Kindle. Kindle knows what I read and how long my attention is captivated and also provides good suggestions. It'salso nice to receive a novel within 5 seconds of placing the order.
severe depression? are you a liberal or what?
Reading has saved me many times indeed.. diving into other universes can be a great transition before emerging back into reality and sociability after long episodes of solitude.
Though local independant libraries (if there is any near you) would benefit more from your money rather than Amazon ;)
His historian/Bene Gesserit daughter Irulan, being a voice in the novel itself, quoted in epigraphs, made her a powerful presence if not a central character. I remembered her and had a better picture of her than that of her Emperor father.
Yes, but I am looking forward to seeing the Throne Room and the Golden Lion Throne. The original movie did such a disservice to the image of this grand room that I had built up in my mind. "With the tiles from a million worlds inlaid in it's floor." Even better that god awful battle station thing the emperor sat at at the end of the movie. WTF was that all about?
Irulan was very interesting.
Trained by the BG, but didn't become a Reverend Mother. She was a "failed" BG.
The conspirators of Dune Messiah are very dismissive of her. She was just a tool, for them.
Similarly, Jessica thought little of her (Children of Dune).
@@w0mblemania if I remembered correctly she stood up for Ghanima, gaining some credit at least with her.
Another crucial weakness is the Emperor has no male heir. This may be because the BG have blocked it through their arts or because he is too selfish to want one.
Maybe the BG were opening the throne for their KH?
That also explains Leto's reason for not marrying Jessica, as he hoped politically he might marry Irulan and ascend the throne.
I thought so for a minute too, but the sisterhood controls the genetics of all major Houses, all except the Atreides anomaly.
The capacity of attracting loyalty they so cherished in that bloodline backfired on them.
Thank you for your dedication to Sci-Fi. Quinn. Everytime I watch one of your videos, it's like I am being told a captivating story by my grandson.
You truly make some of the best videos on RUclips. I am deeply grateful every time you make videos on the literary series I love so much.
I think I'd add this very big weakness: he did not understand the nature of the Atreides before the betrayal whatsoever. It simply didn't include imperial ambition. They aspired to be The Best Damn Dukes, but that was all. Anything else wouldn't even have occurred to Leto, and Paul had to be goaded by circumstances the emperor created and prescience informed race consciousness to do it...and even then that wasn't a matter of ambition. Sure, Leto II ended up being like "Well, in for a penny in for a pre-worm," but he inherited a mess that wouldn't even have existed if Shaddam had just trusted Atreides loyalty.
Soddycars are tough because they know teamwork makes the dream work
"Soddycars" this make me burst out laughing.
You make great content man. You help support the very idea and awesomeness that is sci-fi. We need more people in the world like you.
At the time of this video you have 666 thousand subscribers. Congratulations, Quinn!
Your work is excellent and I love your content!
Liked and shared.
Awesome work. I could listen to this framework of analysis and story telling for hours
“We’ll all be wearin’ spice Melange diapers.”
Ouffff, nicely edited, quality narration, outstanding Sci Fi images, superb quotes from the book, Sir, total five star ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Thank you for posting all of these videos, really making me excited for Dune 2. As always, your content is excellent!
Honestly, a shame Charles Dance wasn’t cast as Shaddam IV. Though I suppose it would just have been Tywin Lannister all over again.
LOL
Charles Dance plays Charles Dance in everything 💀 it’s like Michael Caine.
Charles Dance as Tywin Lannister is one of the best things ive seen in movies/shows. Such a perfect casting and performance. Its up there with Ian McShane as Al Swearengen.
But Walken as Emperor, this can be fantastic!
Exactly, it's not creative at all. I love that Walken was cast. It's weird.
Benedict was better.
That thumbnail 😂
“you’re talking to my landsraad all wrong.. it’s the wrong tone “
I don't know if you've mentioned this before, but I always had a doubt.
On a certain occasion in the first book, Irulan reports a recent rebuke of her father for not having male children, and for the daughter not being old enough to have married Duke Leto.
In that case, why didn't the Emperor want to marry Paul to Irulan before deciding on war?
Paul is a natural son (out of wedlock, Leto never married), Irulan would not be married away like that. But a legitimatised Paul, married to the princess gives the Landsraad a chance to kick Shaddam and use that to gain positions with the new boss.
Leto is just buying time, and himself not marrying anyone keeps his actual family safe.
The plan to isolate them in Arrakis, sabotage spice harvest to justify a Harkonnen takeover with Imperial help appeared to be from the Baron.
Both also made money by stashing spice beforehand and playing the market when the flow trickled down.
Seriously he was doing all sorts of shady shit which alienated many in the lansrad. He also worked with the least reputable house making them rich over much better houses. The emperor was making secret enemies the entire time he was in that position. The big weakness is the shady things as Paul removed him for it.
This video is excellent. It gets to the heart of the story because, in a way, the Emperor is at the center of the story in the book Dune. He is a catalyst for the phenomenon that is Paul Atreidis.
honestly missed opportunity to have Charlece Dance play the emperor. he wouldve been SUCH a good pick
The Emperor's weakness is more cowbell.
Not sure about the walken casting!!! I love him but in order for it to work for me I would have to see a side of him I never seen before. He’s been dark and cold before but there was always a underlying cool swag. Pretty much the only ? mark I have for dune 2
I never would have found your channel if it wasn't for the New Dune movies, thank you.
You very clearly break down what is precious from the Dune novels
I am absolutely loving this new upload schedule.
Hey Quinn. I must say, you sir, are my go-to guy for all things DUNE. Your level of understanding for the core material is impressive to say the least.
I remember years ago falling in love with the dune series all over again thanks to Quinn’s dune explained videos. I’m glad to see this creator expanded beyond dune and became a more general science fiction channel, but anytime Quinn releases a dune video I’m all over it
He actually started with ASOIAF analysis and theorizing and was the best of all of them
The life-extending aspect of spice is also worth emphasizing.
Yeah I wish adaptations would stop spoiling the role of the spice in the space travels, it's supposed to be a plot twist... Saying that it greatly extent life would be reason enough to believe why spice is such an unique, rare and prized substance.
Dune will always be my favourite sci fi. I may like others but I’ll always have an Arrakis shaped hole in my heart. I love it when you talk about dune. Thanks quinn
how am i only just discovering your channel?? everything on here is so good especially the cosmic horror stuff, you are thought fuel and educational in the coolest ways possible, please keep going for a very long time
I never understood why Shaddam would let the most strategic ressource control in the hand of a vassal. Was he obligated to delegate by the virtue of a constitutionnal separation of power?
Also he lacks an heir, which means that any noble house with a male heir will want to seize power by marrying his daughter.
By letting Arrakis be delegated, it allows the Emperor to bestow wealth on whoever he chose. This encourages the various houses to try and curry favor either with the Emperor or the Emperor's favorites. This reinforces the feudal structure, while if the Emperor had Arrakis all to himself then you would have the various Houses trying to work together against the Emperor.
As to the lack of an heir, this is due to his wife being a Bene Gesserit and helping to choose the gender of the Emperor's kids, and apparently women can't be the Emperor.
The power of the Landsraad is greater than the power of house Corrino. The Landsraad would never let the Emperor hold not only Arrakis with its spice production and them a majority holding in its distribution. By making it a fiefdom that the emperor controlled he could control who gained the wealth of spice production, while still maintaining the majority of the wealth generated by distribution which is more valuable. Spice was a raw material that was mined and then sold to be used in many different products and House Corrino got a portion of the wealth at every stage.
The reason why House Corrino doesn't just invade Caladan is because the Emperor can't win a war with a united landsraad against him. And the greatest fear the Houses of the Landsraad have is that of House Corrino picking them off one by one.
6 videos in the span of a week holy!.
i really appreciate your content and the time you spent to create these videos for us,
there is something so cozy about watching your videos late at night getting introduced to genres and stories i wouldve never come across if it wasnt for your videos.
Stay awesome brother
I've loved Dune stuff since the 80's. I love Quinn's Ideas for Dune stuff.
Thank you very much for your videos!
This is one of the BEST science fiction channels. I don't care for Herbert or Octavia Butler, but I still look forward to watching your videos on them.
hey, I just want to say thank you for making these videos. Scifi isnt my genre of choice, but I love hearing passionate people talk about what they love. You've introduced me to series and really concepts I never would have run into otherwise, and I appreciate it!
Thanks a lot for the lore content. I work 60 hour weeks and don’t have enough time to read or look up. But I get my best work done when I have long vids to listen too. Thanks again and please keep up the content!!!
The Emperor’s weakness is cake and lots of it. 🤣
Great video Quinn! Cannot wait for Walkens performance
Was it stated in the book how Shaddam planned to handle his succession? Was he planning to eventually bear a son, pass the throne to Irulan, to some nephew, or was he planning on not dying?
The prequel trilogy of books handle those questions. They go a lot more in-depth with the factions present in the Dune's universe previously to Paul.
In short: Nobody but the Bene Geserit really knows that they can choose a lot of things, like the gender of their offspring or passing specific diseases. People suspect things, but the real array of tools at their disposal is mostly unknown.
@Helios Megistos They were written by his son, and they simply expand in the factions that form the political environment of the empire, and some of the other plots that are being carried on in the original books. I found them well written and enjoyable, also a good way to read more of the Dune's universe from a person that is supposed to be honest and faithful with it, which imo, is the case.
He was still young enough to have kids (Irulan says he looks mid-thirties, like Duke Leto.
And in the 3rd book we learn of a nephew through his sister.
The prequels don’t count because Brian Herbert didn’t know or respect his father’s work well enough to add to it. He undermines themes and provides ludicrous explanations for things that are supposed to be mysteries. Enjoy them if you like but they are not part of the Dune series
One thing I don't remember from the Dune novels. Why did House Atreides have to relinquish Caladan for Arrakis, when House Harkonnen kept Geidi Prime during their rule of Arrakis? I understand it was part of the ploy by the Baron and the Emperor to put the Atreides in a weak position, but was there any pretense given?
I don't think they had to relinquish Caladan. They would have kept the planet, its "sea power" ec.
Rather, they were given Arrakis as a fiefdom. A territory to control, and profit from, as long as they produced spce.
Publicly, it was presented as a reward to the Atreides, and they couldn't refuse it. Even if the Duke saw through it all, it still represented vast wealth and power if they could keep it.
Jessica left Arrakis and went back to Caladan with Gurney. After Paul walked into the desert, Arrakis was under the stewardship of Alia and Irulan until Leto came of age (if my ageing brain serves me correctly).
I just found you and love your stuff. Are you still going to do a video on all the wallfacer plans from the three bodies series?
His weakness is that he assumes everyone wants spice and no one would wantonly destroy it. When faced with someone who would, he doesn’t know what to do.
For one, it wasn’t known that the spice could be destroyed.
Secondly, it is something only a madman or a fanatic would do. It would have been genocide against the Fremen and the Navigators, and suicide for Paul and his family. Then there is the second order effect of no more space travel.
Paul did the equivalent of a Dr. Evil Scheme. “Make me the Messiah-Emperor of Mankind or I will spontaneously combust every fossil fuel deposit on earth.”
No one is actually ready for Dr Evil and no one was ready for Paul Muad'dib.
That thumbnail really makes the letters pop out of the screen, kind of 3D like. Very trippy but also very cool
Do anyone think frank herbert wrote the story taking some aspects of Alexander the greats life?
The father die when he was young
Became a king
Went out to conquer the world
Died young.
There are similarities for sure. But Frank Herbert seems to have built the character of Paul Atreides on Lawrence of Arabia! There are lots of analogies between the two.
It's classic myth - the orphan hero and the rise and fall.
Your videos rock! I would not have finished Children of Dune yesterday if it wasn’t for you. I’m going to buy the next trilogy (with those new beautiful book covers) today! Thank you so much !
The appendices of the first dune book also mentioned the emperor was pompous and had too many generals for the dardaukar and not enough fund spent on training it.
Damn Charles dance would have been perfect for this role
Videos are too short. Luv hearing Your voice on DUNE. Glad you're coming back with the movie, can't wait to hear Your Review of it. Take Care, brother.
Nice summary. Very interesting and explains things the movie doesn't bring out.
Awesome video Quinn. I always thought the Emperor was given a raw deal in Lynch's version, being bossed around by microphone head.
The best thing about Dune is that every character, no matter how much of an antagonist or how “irrelevant” they might be to the protagonist, is in their own way intelligent and skilled.
There’s no throw away dumbness for the sake of plot armor or to make the main protagonist look good. Everyone in Dune is skilled and intelligent in some way.
So glad this came up in my recommended list. Great insight into horror.
I will be picking up the trilogy.
Thank you for putting out all this content Quinn! Effort and presentation spot on as always.
I want to present a counter argument here. I don't view the betrayal of house Atreides as an example of the Emperor's weakness but an example of his still considerable strength. All actions carry risk, doing nothing about House Atreides would have been a sign of weakness because the gap between the Saddukar and house troops was closing. That was a real issue, and waiting until the Atreides acted in a couple of generations would have sealed the doom of House Corrino. Couple this with the popularity of Duke Leto and by all reports his son instilled that same Charisma and you are a asking to be dethroned. Acting while the House was still weak is a sign of strength and intelligence not weakness and foolishness because inaction would have been worse, better take the risk of action then let inaction seal your fate. And the risk was really low.
The plan was brilliant, it was a plan that insured mutual assured destruction, so House Harkonnen couldn't betray the Emperor without destroying themselves. It shifts the lion's share of the risk to troops and expense to be carried by House Harkonnen, the Saddukar were in House Harkonnen uniforms so they appeared to be from witnesses as Harkonnen troops. There was established hatred between House Harkonnen and House Atreides so the idea that the Baron would drain his treasury to destroy House Atredies doesn't appear odd at all. And House Harkonnen held the fiefdom of Arrakis long enough for them to have accumulated enough wealth to pay for the attack. It wasn't just possible that House Harkonnen would act this way given a chance it was plausible especially after the Duke insulted the Baron before the Landsraad, when the Baron made a gesture of peace. The only difference was SCALE but the Baron doesn't have a reputation of being reasonable so that he would spend everything/go into debt for this isn't out of character. This is vital for the plan to work because it makes it appear to be house on House vendetta vs Imperial interference.
Having all these factors align perfectly allowed the Emperor to strike and to strike with 99.999% effectiveness, it is only because Paul was trained as a mentant, as a Bene Gesserit, also trained in the Atreides combat style and just so happened to be the Kwisatz Haderach does the plan fail to kill Paul. Take any of these things away and he either dies in the attack, by the drone assassination attempt or in the desert. And Paul surviving still isn't a "failure" of the plan. The only way Paul wins is if Arrakis hides a great secret that the Fremen are hidden in vast numbers. In hindsight we can look back and say, "well YEAH! OBVIOUSLY!" but for millennia every census, patrol and report says the Fremen in the desert are in tiny numbers not enough to raise a modern army with and not enough to worry about or have Galactic scale intrigues hinge on them. Even House Atredies doesn't suspect their number until Duncan goes there and being the man he is, is able to befriend the Freman and gleam the secret, and that happens only AFTER the plan is set in motion. I doubt Gurney Halleck could have befriended the Freman and gleamed their secret. It was the particular characteristics of Duncan that win out here so this secret not only is well hidden it isn't inevitable that House Atreides would find this out let alone the Emperor.
I think people think oh it failed ergo it was a stupid plan but it wasn't at all. It was rather Brilliant in my opinion.
Agreed. You can't call the emperor "weak" because his plan fell to a series of unpredictable "Deus ex machina".
As you stated, Paul happened to be the Kwisatz Haderach, and the Fremen, a non-factor for thousands of years, happened to be a stronger army than the Sardaukar. The Fremen rallied under Paul because an old Fremen myth happened to say that their messiah would be born to a Bene Gesserit.
It's not like Shaddam IV could have predicted any of that.
If he had been outdone by forces he knew about, like the Atreides, the Guild or the Harkonnen for example, you could call him weak. But here, he lost to a series of events no one could have predicted.
Great video. I'm loving all your stuff. Normally, I'm not one to binge, but your channel is so much fun I've made an exception. Thanks for spending so much effort making stuff like this.
Quinn I love your videos and can’t wait to see dune 2 and hear your review on it. Keep up the good work!!!
excellent writing and presentation. more please
Lack of a male heir is also a great factor of growing instability and fragility of House Corrino as a ruling power.
It opens up possibility and necessity of some kind of dynastic alliance, and possible transition of power.
The emperor was an old man with no male heir. This was the greatest weakness and the rapidly approaching doom of his house.
In contrast, the Atreides house was gifted with a male heir because Jessica defied the Bene Gesserit order. That was the strength of the Atreides charisma. Jessica had so much love for her Duke that she defied the Bene Gesserit and gave House Atreides a son that they never should have had.
Not mentioning this in the video is missing a huge theme from the book.
When I watched new Dune I noticed that in the scene on Caladan all nobles accompanying Herold of Change were covering their heads with masks, just like Navigators. I was wondering: are those futuristic knight armors? Do nobles are afraid of infection while traveling between planets? I imagined that in Part 2 Padishah Emperor would be portrayed as a extremely germophobic person: he never leaves his palace, his court is under drastic cordon sanitaire, everyone who wants to visit a court have to go through incovienient disinifection... what a powerful symbol of authority which is paranoid and isolated from an outside world.
inconvenient disinfection 🤔 Ouch!
Winning might come easily, but governing effectively is far more challenging. His downfall was inevitable as he relied solely on his military might, without comprehending the deeper dynamics of his realm.
Thank you, Quinn, for the brilliant video. I love hearing your voice. 🙏🙏🙏
Epic video yet again. Great breakdown and your breakdowns of The Three Body Problem was why I read the series. I’ve already read the Dune six but makes me want to re-read
Quinn what's happening man I need my dose of sci fi literature this month.
Great video. I would add the Navigators as another weakness. Nothing moves without them. they could show up and dictate to the emperor when they had a concern - which is different from how the reverend mother did things, but still, it's clear who was superior in that relationship. They could cut him (whatever planet he was on) off from the rest of the galaxy at any time - effectively deleting him, his army and his planets from the galactic civilization without firing a shot. It's an interesting question whether they or the Bene Gesseret were in a stronger position. But the emperor wasn't the real power compared to either of them.
One thing I never understood (of many) about these books is why the navigators preferred their soft touch approach to ruling the galaxy. Why didn't they just take over and issue orders? Was it because they didn't care about 99% of what the emperor or houses did? Or they felt safer not being directly in the line of fire? Or they were occupied with their spice driven super-human evolution?
I'm still reading the first Dune book, and just starting Muad'Dib the second section, and Paul says to his mother that they're addicted to spice and that they're forever stuck on Arrakis now. Wouldn't that make the navigators incredibly weak as well, being that they're addicted to spice?
@@vongregor1 EVERYONE in dune is addicted to the spice. The navigators required it to be navigators and - I agree with you - to keep living. But the emperor had taken plenty to extend his lifespan - so him too. The navigators still had a much stronger position than the emperor. They could only be brought to heel by Paul and then Leto - who exerted such total control of spice for such an indefinite period of time that the navigators had no choice but to obey.
I can’t believe you haven’t done The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect yet!
I didn’t get the impression that the emperor was aware of the potential of the fremen as the harkonnen didn’t say anything about them to him beyond them being a pest. It wasn’t until the sardaukar encountered them in combat that he would have been told of them, assuming that such information was passed on by the sardaukar officers.
Audio working just fine on my end. Listening and watching on my phone.
Wait until y'all see Part II. Walken only has 3-4 scenes in the film (two of which were partially seen in the last trailer) but he is the Emperor in a way no one else ever could be & it ties into your point about his family's opulence & immeasurable wealth.
The guild controlled all bug did not want to harvest the spice directly. All else were pawns. Its not who controls the spice, but who controls space travel. Only someoe on arrakis, controling the spice directly, can control the guild.
When I saw your title I thought it would be a video about THE Emperor
"You know my tastes."... I think I also do know his tastes
I know this is completely unrelated and that the series may never be renewed, but could you please make a video on Raised by Wolves? Please?
Quinn, thank you for your hard work, I really appreciate it. you're an incredible, wonderful, amazing, awesome, and beautiful person.
Emperor Shaddam was the ultimate example of lacking self-awareness.
Emperor Shaddam IV: Duke Leto. I have a fever. And the only cure is more Spice.
hasnt uploaded in 3 weeks, hope everythings alright.
Judging from the thumbnail the only weakness of the emperor is his need for more cowbell.
Someone needs to do a cowbell heavy remix of the Sardukar throat bop
My favoritevpart about the Dune (the book), is that we, as a reader, can see the appearing cracks, even if Padishah-Emperor cannot (or, likely, he can, but is unable to do anything about it). Eroding of the Sardaukar corps, rise of Fremen, Bene Gesserit's plotting, opposition of Landsraat and the wild card, that was Paul Atreides and rise of a new militant and expanding faith. Yet I doubt he would posdibly concieve, that there will be no Imperium after his rule. I imagine, this is position Flavius Aetius and Romulus Augustulus were in - able to see times a-changin, but unable to see entire enemy's hand or their own downfall.
Imagine in some freaky alternate reality with startling similarity with Dune, Quinn is a popular Filmbook author and narrator.
Christopher walken as the emperor looks cold asf
Gather round the fire children, it's story time.
The Dune emperor reminds me of the Japanese emperor during the age of the samurai. A remote symbolic figurehead.
I had heard it would be Mads Mikkelsen to okay by the Emperor and I was shattered to see Walkin ruin it.
May thy knife chip and shatter
I cannot wait to see Christopher Walken's emperor
Thank you for simplifying this vast awesome world!
Paul... I got this watch from your father.
Great video!