Doctor P. Hurlbut: Deception, dead ends, & death threats | Ep. 214
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- Doctor Philastus Hurlbut did more to damage Joseph Smith and the Church than perhaps anyone else. Let’s talk about him.
Video transcript: saintsunscript...
- “Doctor Philastus Hurlbut: Originator of Derogatory Statements About Joseph Smith, Jr.” by Dale W. Adams in “The John Whitmer Historical Association Journal,” Vol. 20 (2000), pp. 76-93 (18 pages): tinyurl.com/4y...
- “Why Did Joseph Smith File a Legal Complaint against Doctor Philastus Hurlbut?” via Book of Mormon Central: tinyurl.com/5d...
- “Winning against Hurlbut's Assault in 1834,” by David Grua (chapter in “Sustaining the Law: Joseph Smith’s Legal Encounters”): tinyurl.com/5c...
- “Joseph Smith’s New York Reputation Reappraised,” by Richard Lloyd Anderson, BYU Studies 10, no. 3 (1970): tinyurl.com/yc...
- “Can the 1834 Affidavits Attacking the Smith Family Be Trusted?” by Daniel C. Peterson & Donald L. Enders in “Pressing Forward with the Book of Mormon: The FARMS Updates of the 1990s,” pgs. 285-288: tinyurl.com/yn...
- “Hurlbut, Doctor Philastus,” biography via the Joseph Smith Papers Project: tinyurl.com/65...
- “The Mythical ‘Manuscript Found’,” by Matthew Roper (Maxwell Institute): tinyurl.com/2p...
- “New Light on Mormonism,” by Ellen Dickinson (chapter 5 of this book contains a fascinating 1880 interview with Hurlbut.): tinyurl.com/mu...
- “The Joseph Smith, Sr., Family: Farmers of the Genesee” by Donald L. Enders in “Joseph Smith: The Prophet, the Man”: tinyurl.com/2f...
- “Joseph Smith and the 1834 D. P. Hurlbut Case,” by David W. Grua (BYU Studies Quarterly 44:1, pg. 33): tinyurl.com/3t...
- “Specific works/The Hurlbut affidavits,” via FAIR: tinyurl.com/4s...
- “What is ‘Manuscript Found’?” by Rex C. Reeve Jr. (BYU RSC): tinyurl.com/d2...
- “Trial of Doctor Philastus Hurlbut • 21 June 1833” in Minute Book 1 (JosephSmithPapers.org): tinyurl.com/4d...
- “Trial of Doctor Philastus Hurlbut, continued • 21-23 June 1833” in Minute Book 1: tinyurl.com/29...
Notes:
- Not included in the 15 Palmyra affidavits are 5 more from Harmony, PA, included in Howe’s book with Hurlbut's Palmyra affidavits. One (from Isaac Hale) seems to be in response to a letter from Hurlbut, but I’m not sure how the others are tied to him, if at all. I followed Richard Bushman’s assessment, and only included the 15. The other 5 are pretty much more of the same content (I'm simplifying, but that should give you an idea of what to expect from them).
- It wasn’t until 1884 that Spaulding's manuscript resurfaced in the papers of Eber D. Howe. It can be read online, and bears little resemblance to the Book of Mormon.
- Sources disagree whether Hurlbut discovered the Spaulding connection during his mission or after his excommunication. Dale W. Adams (2005) indicates that it was during his mission, but I’m not sure what led him to that conclusion beyond the fact that his mission companion, Daniel Copley, also abandoned his mission. There may be additional evidence, but I didn’t search comprehensively for it. In any case, Hurlbut was the first to find and promote the connection.
- Joseph Smith recalled that in an early conversation with Hurlbut (March 13, 1833), Hurlbut had stated, “if he ever became convinced that the book of Mormon was false, he would be the cause of my destruction, &c.” Source: Joseph Smith journal entry, 28 Jan. 1834.
- Both Sidney Rigdon and Benjamin Winchester assert that prior to joining the Church, Hurlbut had been cut off from Methodism for “unvirtuous conduct with a young lady” or “immoralities.” Sources: Winchester, pg. 5 / Sidney Rigdon, Letter to the Editors, Quincy Whig, Quincy IL, June 9, 1839.
- My personal favorite treasure-digging claim in the affidavits comes from Willard Chase, who reported that Joseph was initially prevented from obtaining the golden plates by a toad that turned into a man, who slapped him in the face.
- Even E. D. Howe reported that the Spaulding manuscript given to him by Hurlbut “had no resemblance to the 'Book of Mormon.’” Howe also believed there was a second manuscript that better matched the Book of Mormon. Source: tinyurl.com/mw...
- At least one source also indicates that Hurlbut’s affections had been rejected by a Latter-day Saint woman named Electra Sherman. “...because she despised him for his immorality and rejected his suit he swore revenge upon the whole community and boastfully declared he would destroy the church.” Source: Benjamin F. Johnson, "My Life's Review," pg. 20 (of Archive.org's edition)
SUBSCRIBE:
saintsunscripted/subscribe
Follow the Hosts:
David: / davidesnell
I am from a Hurlbut line , but funny thing not his , he and I are distant through marriage before directly related. Anyway, I am coming to repair the name:) just forget what he said . The Church is true, Joseph is a prophet and we are blessed because of the restoration. That’s all we need to know:) There’s a new Hurlbut in town!
Awesome content. It’s amazing how much of these accusations still circulate today. A lot of regurgitated arguments.
It's true! Joseph was accused of doing many things he's not guilty of.
I'm currently serving a mission right now. Thank you for your work. It has helped me a lot whenever I have taught others who have had questions about things like this.
Rock on!
Prophet Russell M Nelson:
“The Youth must be master of technology not slaves to it.”
Good job Mastering your technology Elder!
"More holes than Camp Greenlake" is so good. I need to start using that
These thumbnails are getting more and more creative!! Great job!!
Glad you like them!
Doesn’t the book “Rough Stone Rolling“ quote extensively from the Hurlbut affidavits? Why did Bushman use such a clearly biased source throughout his book?
Church historians motives and beliefs aren’t always clear to us. In the day of Joseph Smith the church’s newspaper was infuriated and published accusations against him. We had Lenard Arrington claim that the previous prophet approved of his historical series he wanted to publish without it being reviewed by the current prophet. Our church publications have likewise been infiltrated at times and have books that don’t square with the doctrines of the church or teachings of Jesus’s Christ.
David mentioned it in passing, but one thing we didn't go over extensively in the video is that many elements of the affidavits - both the Spalding and the Palmyra ones - are considered to be true. Spalding did have a manuscript that he read to many people, and it did have some vague similarities to the Book of Mormon (i.e. being about Native Americans and what not), but the content was completely different and had nothing like the names of Nephi, Lehi, Lamanites, etc. as many testified.
Similarly, the Palmyra affidavits also have elements of truth. i.e. the Smith's did take an interest in the folk magic and treasure digging, but it's clear that it wasn't their only means of employment, as demonstrated by all the hard work they put into their farm. So yes, the affidavits do contain threadlines of believable claims, but should definitely be read with a grain of salt (especially the extreme claims, which serve primarily to mudsling). The fact is that we don't really know. We're just picking apart the historical record, and the history suggests a stretching of the truth on Hurlbut's part.
Personally, I’m disappointed when I see “Mormonism unveiled” referenced to confirm certain questionable and controversial aspects of early church history. Particularly as it relates to “money digging” and the use of folk magic and peep stones.
Because bushman is a progressive, LDS scholar, a disciple of Leonard Arrington church historian. Included all sources, even anti-Mormon discredited sources as well in their works is what they were known for. Rough stone rolling is a prime example of this.
The Hurlbut witnesses weren’t a random sampling of locals, just like the book of Mormon witnesses.
I would love a video on William Law...just saying...great job on this one!
Great video!
Church history is really something else. Great video!
Good job 👌👍👏
Where are the affidavits? Howe kept the Solomon Spaulding manuscript so where are the affidavits? Why weren't these people interviewed by other newspapers? Makes you wonder just how real they are.
I have never had a first comment before. This is fascinating though guys! I love the crazy and wild parts of our history. #teamjoseph
His mother named him "Doctor" to give him unearned status. So, dishonesty evidently ran in the family
He was named that because he was the seventh son. There was an old superstition about seventh sons having magical powers or something
The hurlbut witnesses weren't a random sampling of locals, just like the book of Mormon witnesses.
A former John Dehlin…
I wanted to knw if it was possible that in the premortal life, before Lucifer and his 1/3rd was banished from heaven, could Lucifer had planted some of his minions amongst those who stayed in heaven, to eventually make it to earth in physical body and work for Satan? Could Lucifer have selected some to stay in heaven in the purpose of getting a physical body, and do work here on earth for the purpose of Satans evil plans?
I'm assuming yes, because we had free will in the premortal to chose ..... Am i right? Just something i was thinking about watching this great episode. Thanks David!
Ps. Still some great entertaining editing!😂❤
The answer is no. The only way you received a mortal body was by accepting Jesus Christ in the premortal life (aka keeping your first estate see Abraham 3:26). The ones that didn’t accept Jesus Christ were that 1/3rd that were cast out (see Abraham 3:27-28; D&C 29:36-38; 2 Peter 2:4; Revelation 12:8-9). That’s why we see evil spirits so focused on attaining physical bodies here on earth (Mark 5:1-20; Luke 8:26-39). Hope this helps 🙂
That make sense. Too many evil people in this earth and I sometime wonder how they could be so bad and still came to this world.
@@yokomiller3909 People are predisposed to evil sadly and are only capable of good through Christ’s atonement (Mosiah 3:19). It truly is sad so many yield to evil (2 Nephi 26:24)
@@richardoslater5486 ah2ah310, has good food for thought. The scriptures only say some were cast out with Lucifer. The scriptures do not saying keeping the first estate meant being all in on Jesus Christ and His Atonement. There could have been people who were not with Lucifer, and yet not seeking the Celestial Kingdom.
Hello algorithm 👋
Geez Hurlbut, LOCK YOUR HEART.
Say that name ten times fast.
Also shout out to my boy Wilson. Love you Gustav
I wish my mother named me 'Doctor.'
Isaac is a good name, though. 😊
Dan Vogel has discounted the Spaulding theory (and therefore the affidavits associated therewith) and yet uses Mormonism Unvailed (and therefore Hurlbuts other affidavits) as a primary source for much of his content on JS's "magical" background. The inconsistently in historic reporting and use of sources to me is frankly appalling. Mormonism Unvailed and the Hurlbut affidavits should be taken with a grain of salt whenever encountered as a source for anything related to the history of JS.
Dang..... too many men on missions messed around when they should've been serving.
Between William Clayton, Brigham Young, Heber Kimball and who knows who else. I guess the rules were different back then🤣. Oh well. The church is true and I'm grateful we have such amazing leaders.
Nelson is a true prophet, Joseph Smith was a true prophet 😇🙏😇🙏.
Great video 👌.
Nelson is an eternal polygamist though.
The rules were definitely different, but if I'm understanding you correctly, are you saying that William Clayton, Brigham Young, and Heber C. Kimball were also guilty of "unchristian conduct with the female sex while on a mission" like Hurlbut was? If that's what you're saying, I'd love to look into that claim more. Could you pass me whatever primary sources you've been looking at? (Comments with links are automatically blocked, so you'll just have to type out citations for me, thanks)
@@Maryel_R_R_Palmeryou are an eternal ignoramus.
Oof he deserves his unfortunate name
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's why his mom named him Doctor. Trying to make up for it.