Terrorism, Israel, and Dreams of Peace (with Haviv Rettig Gur) 11/18/24

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  • Опубликовано: 15 янв 2025

Комментарии • 155

  • @kandilula
    @kandilula Месяц назад +52

    Excellent analysis as always. So grateful for how Haviv weaves all the threads together so we can understand this conflict more clearly. Thank you.

  • @inka12877
    @inka12877 Месяц назад +59

    I can listen to Haviv talk for hours!!! He is an amazing story teller and a historian… Thank you for this!!!

  • @Dan-ku9mt
    @Dan-ku9mt Месяц назад +38

    GOD! I LOVE Haviv! I literally comb the entire net and youtube for anywhere he might appear. He has SUCH a unique gift transforming the very essence of what some may call the zeitgeist or the heart of complex abstract concept into an articulated, package for all to grasp in (mostly) simple terms. May Hashem bless him in all that he does.

    • @spyrop.8428
      @spyrop.8428 Месяц назад +7

      I literally search youtube every second day for "haviv rettig gur"
      Dude made it all make sense for me.

    • @michaelkapnick2295
      @michaelkapnick2295 Месяц назад +3

      I use to chase Jerry Garcia around back in my youth (both with Grateful Dead and his solo stuff). Now it's Haviv on you tube!!! : ).....maybe we should start making tiedyes : )

    • @DDBb993
      @DDBb993 Месяц назад +4

      I do the same. Just like Dr Einat I learn so much.

  • @ab.boskany
    @ab.boskany Месяц назад +21

    Haviv Gur presents a remarkably compelling argument, characterised by nuanced analysis and a sophisticated integration of historical and contemporary perspectives. His ability to contextualise complex dynamics with clarity and precision elevates the discussion, offering critical insights that warrant further academic exploration. This level of discourse is both thought-provoking and intellectually enriching.🌺

  • @orrperetz7099
    @orrperetz7099 Месяц назад +28

    Everyone in the world need to listen to him

  • @bellyfiore1
    @bellyfiore1 Месяц назад +21

    I have listened to all Haviv,s talks this past year. I wish to thank you for my education, .

  • @batshevajengoldman6260
    @batshevajengoldman6260 Месяц назад +4

    That’s was a life changing discussion for me. I’m a relatively new immigrant to Israel from the US and Haviv put into words what I’d been sensing about the difference between US and Israeli Jews, as well as giving the background of Israeli current events. He explained the historical, cultural psyche of the people I live with. Thank you.

  • @kmentemt
    @kmentemt Месяц назад +9

    Always special to learn and Listen to Haviv Rettig Gur ❤

  • @FlamingBasketballClub
    @FlamingBasketballClub Месяц назад +14

    Not gonna lie. These EconTalk episodes on the whole geopolitical issues of the Middle East are more contextual than the Legacy News Media overall even if you disagree with the opinions that were said. I genuinely thought this was better than episode 956 featuring Sam Harris.
    👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

  • @annalink4351
    @annalink4351 Месяц назад +21

    As you know, the situation for us American Jews has been undergoing a change. Regardless of the coming administration no one knows what the future has in store, but one thing is certain---
    anti-Zionism will not help appease our enemies.

    • @davereynolds3403
      @davereynolds3403 Месяц назад

      @annalink4351 enemies ? i live in south africa and we have no enemies. my best friend is swiss. switzerland has no enemies. why do you have enemies ?

    • @annalink4351
      @annalink4351 Месяц назад

      @@davereynolds3403 You tell me-- Why have the Jews had and still have enemies? Do you know any history? Are you 2 years old?

    • @tarafreedom2584
      @tarafreedom2584 Месяц назад +1

      @@davereynolds3403 because antisemitism is still an unknown phenomenon!

  • @michaelkapnick2295
    @michaelkapnick2295 Месяц назад +10

    A masterclass by Haviv. Thank you for this. It is so informative. I am going to send it to Ezra Klein : )

  • @delcysteffy5896
    @delcysteffy5896 Месяц назад +19

    Haviv is so good. Thank you both

  • @thomasaswidler
    @thomasaswidler Месяц назад +9

    More than 50 years ago I was able to spend a day with a small group of Americans and the editor of Beirut’s Express Orient, long since murdered, discussing a compromise solution to the Israeli vs Palestine impasse. At the end he explained that Americans just don’t get it. There is no compromise possible. One side will win and the other will lose. Before you decide which side you want to be on, consider this. Everywhere in the world where Jews have been left alone to go about their lives, the Jews have prospered and so has everyone around them. This is the way the world should regard Israel.

  • @yehudithyakobson9325
    @yehudithyakobson9325 Месяц назад +7

    I never asked so many of the questions Haviv just answered..so much to learn and

  • @johannessobanski7306
    @johannessobanski7306 Месяц назад +12

    Again, what a fascinating and insightful conversation; many thanks for that.

  • @cortezcabret9408
    @cortezcabret9408 Месяц назад +12

    Thank you for this truth. The whole world should hear this. One word about this Algerian analogy- should go without saying, the French have nothing to do with Algeria except colonization, whereas Israel is the Jewish homeland.

    • @davereynolds3403
      @davereynolds3403 Месяц назад

      @cortezcabret9408 correct. the french upped and left. lsrael is more like my country South Africa. when we ended Apartheid, some left (2 million) and the rest (4 million) agreed to share the country with the locals. many have married locals and tribalism is not such a thing anymore. will the Jewish people allow their daughters to marry Palestinyanz when Apartheid in lsrael ends ?

    • @superhugful
      @superhugful Месяц назад +2

      ​@@davereynolds3403 Were the intermarriages in South Africa different religions? There are already some mixed marriages between Jews and Muslims but generally people seem to want to marry within their common religion. I think you cannot compare South Africa with Israel in this case

    • @joge2468
      @joge2468 Месяц назад

      @@davereynolds3403 No comparison. Js are indigenous to Izzzrael. If you don’t know this, you cannot possibly understand the conflict.

  • @helenezonana
    @helenezonana Месяц назад +5

    I love listening to Haviv and his wisdom. He always has a different insight to the story. If people went back in history and understood the moment when the Displaced Persons had to choose where to go, and they said: Palestine. That’s what gets me to the core. It’s a story of redemption and decolonization of the Jewish People. No longer the Jewish man with trembling knees, indefensible against the annihilation of its people. I agree Israel is redemption.

  • @Unmoved12345
    @Unmoved12345 Месяц назад +4

    Superb analysis.

  • @noraabramson7054
    @noraabramson7054 Месяц назад +3

    I wish EVERYONE WOULD LISTEN TO THIS!

  • @AboutMyGeneration19
    @AboutMyGeneration19 Месяц назад +1

    This is SUCH an important conversation. Haviv always brings an incredible depth of knowledge, always conscious and empathetic to both sides of a narrative, and backed by facts.

  • @guitarsandbongos
    @guitarsandbongos 5 дней назад

    The best analysis I've heard of the last 40 or so years.

  • @adaptiveagile
    @adaptiveagile Месяц назад +3

    You couldn't have found a better guest.

  • @friendlylaser
    @friendlylaser Месяц назад +5

    Wow, very illuminating. I certainly don't see no two states now at least for a generation.

  • @Santirata
    @Santirata Месяц назад +1

    WOW, great conversation!

  • @spi19991337
    @spi19991337 Месяц назад +1

    This was amazing. Thank you both. 🙏 Shalam.

  • @mikesadventures
    @mikesadventures Месяц назад +6

    Haviv must have drank some extra strong coffee before this talk.

  • @raeli731
    @raeli731 Месяц назад

    Having Rettig Gur is a brilliant man! 👏🏽👏🏽

  • @ErikWeijers
    @ErikWeijers Месяц назад +1

    This is really enlightening, also the parallel with the Algerian war. It helps framing the apparent insanity. Thanks for having Haviv on.

  • @allibeck21
    @allibeck21 Месяц назад +1

    Haviv, you have taught us all so much in this podcast. Even those of us who thought we know something of Israeli history. The last 20 minutes I listened to 3 times. Grateful 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱

  • @luckynumberzeroes
    @luckynumberzeroes Месяц назад +2

    Best overview of the Israeli and Jew POV I ever heard in such a short lenght, good job Haviv

  • @RationalThinker778
    @RationalThinker778 Месяц назад +1

    Excellent, excellent analysis! Thank you!

  • @noraabramson7054
    @noraabramson7054 Месяц назад +4

    Quoting Golda “Israelis have no other place to go”

  • @Kyzyl_Tuva
    @Kyzyl_Tuva Месяц назад

    Damn! What an enlightenment. Thank you Russ and Haviv.

  • @bellyfiore1
    @bellyfiore1 27 дней назад

    Third time listening to this talk. So educational.

  • @tarafreedom2584
    @tarafreedom2584 Месяц назад

    Haviv you are brilliant! 👏👏🙏🙏🙏

  • @ronin428
    @ronin428 Месяц назад +9

    This was a great conversation. Thank you for this. I feel every bit of your frustration. I wish there was something to shake the Palestinian’s continued belief in the Algerian method of anti-colonialism. It would be very interesting.

    • @yanivreif7379
      @yanivreif7379 Месяц назад +2

      There is a way bot sadly it involves the use of force (until hopefully there will come a generation of Palestinian elites that will prefer to look at the future and not at the past).
      This can only happen if they will come to the understanding that the war that was started 1948 ended in their defeat and it can’t be won…

    • @FlamingBasketballClub
      @FlamingBasketballClub Месяц назад

      Hypocrites in this comment section really got triggered because I asked Russ to do a seperate podcast episode on the political ideology of Zionism. Absolutely wild dawg.
      💀💀💀😭😭😭

    • @ronin428
      @ronin428 Месяц назад +3

      @ did you miss the last 30-45 minutes of this episode?
      It’s all there, dawg.
      It’s always helpful to comment after watching the video. Just saying.

    • @FlamingBasketballClub
      @FlamingBasketballClub Месяц назад

      @@ronin428 I listened to the audio podcast before commenting in all fairness. However, it's still a fairly reasonable suggestion. Not sure why some people are against it bruh.
      🤷🏿‍♂️

    • @ronin428
      @ronin428 Месяц назад +1

      @ So why ask for a rehash of something that’s in this episode? Was it unclear? Russ has done a whole lot on this subject. His previous ep with Haviv, with Hillel Cohen, Dahlia Scheindlin, Daniel Gordis, Matti Friedman, Yossi Klein Halevi…all probably have answers to all your questions. (That’s like 10-12 hours of conversation.) Plus all of those people are authors/writers who have books/articles on this topic.

  • @hizakamit
    @hizakamit Месяц назад

    Haviv is spreading the truth , his words are of great value and must be heard .

  • @maieuticogre
    @maieuticogre 28 дней назад +1

    Haviv is unparalleled.

  • @shonlondon7566
    @shonlondon7566 Месяц назад +7

    Left in the middle east is like chicken for KFC🤪

    • @yanivreif7379
      @yanivreif7379 Месяц назад

      Left in the Middle East are mostly classical liberals at this point….

  • @johnjackson1449
    @johnjackson1449 Месяц назад +3

    What a great interview. This really highlights the fact that anyone who tells you the I/P conflict is "simple" in any way, is full of shit.

  • @saskiascott8181
    @saskiascott8181 16 дней назад

    Its so good to listen to Haviv always but i wish he had an answer about where the hope is. He's good on the history but it does tend to leave one feeling rather hopeless

  • @noahman27
    @noahman27 Месяц назад

    That was an invaluable conversation showing us where we are today and how we all arrived here. Thank you fellas. Bless you and all Am Yisrael, her friends, and champions, all the IDF, all of Israel. Amen!

  • @jedinxf7
    @jedinxf7 Месяц назад

    spectacular history and analysis. really should be viewed by anyone looking for insight into the conflict, the peace process and the changes of view within the Israeli electorate over time.

  • @davidgoddard5532
    @davidgoddard5532 Месяц назад +1

    The USA is talking about sanctioning Kaan & other people in the ICC with Magnitsky Act sanctions on their banks & credit cards. The USA funds the UN nearly half it budget!

  • @YvetteBurke-v3o
    @YvetteBurke-v3o Месяц назад +5

    Excellent!!!

  • @natibar001
    @natibar001 Месяц назад

    Thank you.

  • @emsee90210
    @emsee90210 21 день назад

    Haviv we need people like you in control

  • @ElizabethEllisCoach
    @ElizabethEllisCoach Месяц назад

    ❤thank you

  • @bettymulders7641
    @bettymulders7641 Месяц назад +1

    The powerstrucure was seen as the whole of Israel not a part of it, In fact the Palestinians did not want to share the area, they wanted everything , from the river to the sea

    • @bettymulders7641
      @bettymulders7641 Месяц назад

      Like in Algeria. Israel is conciderd to be a “ colonial “ state

  • @purpleflame334
    @purpleflame334 Месяц назад +3

    Haviv is very romantic about Palestinians not being Nazi...

  • @gfutub
    @gfutub Месяц назад

    What Haviv says from 1:57:23 is literally what has been happening to Palestinians in Gaza. That being said, Haviv needs to be added to the international platform more than has happened so far. Every word and experience from him is valuable.

  • @rajanikantmohan840
    @rajanikantmohan840 15 дней назад

    I am speechless listening to this analysis. Israel's earnest attempts to peace are just not understood globally.

  • @dennisash7221
    @dennisash7221 Месяц назад

    A very interesting recounting of history from someone who lived it. Most westerners would simply not be able to understand the depth of what has happened there not just because they were not there but also becasue Jews are a pragmatic people they don't go around crying or shouting because something went wrong they get on with dealing with it and trying to find the right way out.

  • @MayaBloke
    @MayaBloke 29 дней назад

    While Israel physically withdrew from Gaza in 2005, it maintained control over key aspects of Gaza’s borders, economy, and security. The idea of “leaving them alone” is therefore only partially accurate. Israel no longer polices Gaza internally but exerts substantial external control, which critics argue amounts to a form of continued occupation. The policy of responding militarily to any threats from Gaza remains a core part of Israel’s approach

  • @maria9567
    @maria9567 18 дней назад

    Can somebody break it down for me why/ how Jewish identity called into question the organic validity of the modern European identities in the 1920s, as per Herzl’s novel, which I haven’t had a chance to read ? Haviv’s one sentence can give you a week of work to do.

    • @yanivreif7379
      @yanivreif7379 16 дней назад

      The short explanation (which is lacking but good enough) is because Jews loyalty to the nation (which was a fairly new concept) was suspected because they were the “other” so they will be more loyal to “other” and first and foremost to other Jews.
      Hence the believe they are a part of a cabal who riled the world.
      Echos of the same simplistic bs can be found in modern anti sematisem and post modern anti sematisem (aka anti zionsem) both rhymes with the old hatred tropes.
      In anycase of you want to Haviv explain it here also
      ruclips.net/video/yKoUC0m1U9E/видео.htmlsi=Oo_tIsnQjYjm-sks

  • @gfutub
    @gfutub Месяц назад

    Also, Haviv maid Russ cry 😄❤

  • @eddyr1041
    @eddyr1041 Месяц назад

    Always end up , stuck on the status of jerusalem

  • @Babaghanoush77
    @Babaghanoush77 Месяц назад +3

    I dont and didn't view the Palestinians through the prism of nazism. Even though I was fully aware of their leaders associations with nazism including the nazi war criminal the grand mufti of jerusalem who had massive influence over their cause. It would however be foolish to view them and their cause through that prism. I have simply used 5 letters to understand them I.s.l a.m. if one understands islam and its 1400 year history and not the post modern history we are fed then it's much easier to understand the palastinians the middle east and what's happening in Europe

    • @yanivreif7379
      @yanivreif7379 Месяц назад +1

      Haviv is only partly right about Nazisem.
      Nazism and before that the Germany had a lot of influence in the Middle East in the two decades before WWI and after WWII.
      The grand mufti was part of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and Hamas are an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.
      This doesn’t make the Palestinians Nazis but it’s meaningful and relevant to other part of the Arab world as well.
      I’m just reading a fascinating book about it: Nazis, Islamists and the making of the modern Middle East.

    • @FlamingBasketballClub
      @FlamingBasketballClub Месяц назад

      🤡

    • @yanivreif7379
      @yanivreif7379 Месяц назад

      @ how about you go read a history book first before calling other people names you ignorant

    • @luckynumberzeroes
      @luckynumberzeroes Месяц назад +1

      As in Jesus (not Judas though?) was Palestinian?

  • @tamarravon6638
    @tamarravon6638 Месяц назад +1

    Riveting!

  • @maliniM-ze2yh
    @maliniM-ze2yh Месяц назад +2

    Haviv should bring his thought process to after Oct 7th and stop romanizing the palestinian arabs who want to eliminate Jews. Stop repeating your version of the intefeda at every interview. It is tiring and nobody wants her hear about it.

  • @YOGAthletica
    @YOGAthletica Месяц назад +5

    While I appreciate your commitment to showing both sides of a very complex story, here’s the challenge:
    Israel has lost the war of words. That has manifested in anti-Israel rhetoric that can literally destroy the Jewish State on both the political and diplomatic fronts. It has also manifested in deep antisemitic sentiment that has put not only Israeli Jews but all the Jews in the Diaspora at literal risk of our lives. Not to mention the social and professional implications of being Jewish and/or Zionist anywhere in the world today.
    The Palestinian media narrative (both social and mass media) is 100% biased and completely un-nuanced against and incriminating of Israel and all Jewish people.
    While the intention of conversations like this are moral and honest, spending so much conversational capital explaining and largely defending the terrorist Palestinian cause puts one more nail in the coffin of public opinion against Israel and the Jewish State.
    We, as supporters of Israel, can’t keep complaining that we are losing the war of words when our own supporters are using so many of their words to denigrate the Jewish State.

    • @yanivreif7379
      @yanivreif7379 Месяц назад +3

      Where did you heard denigration of Israel in this conversation?

    • @FlamingBasketballClub
      @FlamingBasketballClub Месяц назад

      @@YOGAthletica Supporting Zionism is problematic considering the similarly to Communism.
      🤡🤡

    • @mariannakazakova7482
      @mariannakazakova7482 Месяц назад +6

      @@FlamingBasketballClub Zionism and communism have nothing in common, it seems like you don't know what these terms mean

    • @FlamingBasketballClub
      @FlamingBasketballClub Месяц назад

      @mariannakazakova7482 You really are that dumb huh.
      🤡😂

    • @YOGAthletica
      @YOGAthletica Месяц назад +1

      @@yanivreif7379 I was trying to find the right word. It's not denigration, but justification of the fight against Israel. I'm not even saying the truth shouldn't be said but I think we truth-tell to our own detriment when the war of words against us is so strong.

  • @DanHowardMtl
    @DanHowardMtl Месяц назад

    What I still don't understand is that there was an election but only 1! Why couldn't the international community force elections every 4 years. There should have been a fixed date for elections and it should have been enforced.

    • @BaraPlaylist
      @BaraPlaylist Месяц назад +1

      No... you dont get to both control them and tell them "you vote for a real goverment that has standing"

    • @yanivreif7379
      @yanivreif7379 Месяц назад +4

      And if Hamas would’ve take the governance by the use of power who will sand troops to fight them in order to enforce democracy!?
      No one…
      It’s an empty threat.
      The fact is they need to take responsibility for their own fate and future.

    • @DanHowardMtl
      @DanHowardMtl Месяц назад

      @@BaraPlaylist WTF does that even mean? Eventually even insane people would eventually vote for parties that provide you with running water and electricity, no?

    • @DanHowardMtl
      @DanHowardMtl Месяц назад

      @@yanivreif7379 It should have been FORCED elections. The people there are pawns and this is why this is never resolved.

    • @superhugful
      @superhugful Месяц назад +1

      The opposition was disappeared

  • @camilofl
    @camilofl Месяц назад +1

    Good análisis. The effects of the Algerian model over the Palestinian leadership are a huge factor. But there wasn't a single mention to the effect of the settlers over the Palestinian public opinion and how it reinforces the most violent narratives among them. The big conclusion is that Israelis will use force over the Palestinians till there is not more conflict. Sadly that implies the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank and the end of Palestinians as a people. Israelis will do to Palestinians what the USA did to the natives but at the same time claiming to have XXI century values.

    • @yanivreif7379
      @yanivreif7379 Месяц назад +3

      There were no settlers or settlements in Gaza and yet here we are

  • @senadbajrami4292
    @senadbajrami4292 27 дней назад

    Long live Bibi Netanyahu

  • @FlamingBasketballClub
    @FlamingBasketballClub Месяц назад +1

    Russ should do a full podcast episode based on providing legitimate criticism towards the political ideology of Zionism in my honest opinion.
    🏴‍☠️🎃🏴‍☠️🎃🏴‍☠️🎃🏴‍☠️🎃🏴‍☠️🎃

    • @yanivreif7379
      @yanivreif7379 Месяц назад +5

      Did you even listened to this episode?
      Being a Zionist is not a political for most Israelis.
      You can call it whatever you want but for us Zionism is what saved us, nothing more.

    • @FlamingBasketballClub
      @FlamingBasketballClub Месяц назад

      @yanivreif7379 Such a clown world response. Shows you didn't listen to this episode.
      🤡🤡🤡

    • @yanivreif7379
      @yanivreif7379 Месяц назад +6

      @@FlamingBasketballClub
      Listen to what he is saying from 1:57:00
      If you actually listened to this conversation you didn’t understand anything that was said.
      As opposed to you I’m an Israeli so I know exactly what I’m talking about.
      As Haviv said: “what’s the fourth option?”

    • @FlamingBasketballClub
      @FlamingBasketballClub Месяц назад

      ​@@yanivreif7379 Just say you understand my original comment bruh. I'm convinced that you listened to parts of this episode.
      💀💀💀

    • @yanivreif7379
      @yanivreif7379 Месяц назад +5

      @
      I’m telling your framing it as a political ideology is wrong (as Haviv explains very eloquently) so your whole request of Rus is a bizarre request given the way he understands Zionism.

  • @amouri7792
    @amouri7792 Месяц назад

    Haviv is fun to listen to but he is still a settler.

    • @yanivreif7379
      @yanivreif7379 Месяц назад +5

      Well, settler or not he ain’t going anywhere

  • @TB-sz9nt
    @TB-sz9nt Месяц назад +2

    Yes, Gur's talk does sound cluttered and confused, and wrong.

    • @evamurray2564
      @evamurray2564 Месяц назад +1

      At least learn how to write English correctly before launching into an ad hominem attack.

    • @BaraPlaylist
      @BaraPlaylist Месяц назад

      @@evamurray2564 Ah, now you have convinced me

    • @luckynumberzeroes
      @luckynumberzeroes Месяц назад +1

      Can't wait to hear your 2h analysis of the other side's POV. You do understand that it wasn't a script but a one breath conversation?

  • @talathaque2904
    @talathaque2904 Месяц назад

    In the subcontinent of India and Pakistan we have a saying about "intelligent crows" ......... crows are considered to be one of the very intelligent animals ............. its called "siyana kawwa ...." ............. so in the end it eats shit . You are intelligent about things, but in the end you will eat dirt [ to put it politely] ........... your history teaches you that - if you will learn from it.

  • @veridianacarvalho9209
    @veridianacarvalho9209 Месяц назад

    Couldn't pass the 10 min.... this guy wants to talk in a poetic way but he is boring as hell

    • @joge2468
      @joge2468 Месяц назад +5

      lol. That’s your TikTok brain talking.

    • @luckynumberzeroes
      @luckynumberzeroes Месяц назад +3

      You don't read much poetry do you

  • @Jonathan-o1q6q
    @Jonathan-o1q6q 22 дня назад

    Only tells one side of story sad

  • @Jonathan-o1q6q
    @Jonathan-o1q6q 22 дня назад

    A manipulative speaker who just picks talking points