The dichotomy of psychology is really profound between "I will be good and pleasing to others, I won't make waves, I won't be bad or difficult, so that I can be loved/accepted/wanted/safe;" versus, "I am worthy and valuable and inherently loved, just because I exist, and I don't need anyone's approval to justify my existence."
@@Tas2270 if they believed that they are worthy and valuable and inherently loved, they wouldn't want to murder jews nor kill themselves in the process. They don't love themselves. No one is asking them to justify their existence. If they valued themselves and their lives, and the lives of others and wanted peace, if they would be partners for peace, rather than destructive, there would have been a successful two state solution decades ago. They aren't victims. They make themselves into martyrs for a cause - the eradication of Israel. If they dropped this genocidal cause, everyone would live together beautifully.
Who is displacing them? 20% of Israel's population is Palestinians who choose to treat jews as equals. Those guys in Gaza and West Bank refuse to accept a jew as an equal.
@@Tas2270 the Palestinians were offered a country in 1936, 90/10 split. Not only was there the refugee issue from Europe, There were local indigenous Jews who never left, and there were refugees from Arab countries. Jews had purchased land from Arabs to the extent that some of the Arabs persecuted (to death) 150 other Arab leaders for selling Islamic holy lands that Muhammad (actually, Umar) conquered in 637. Rather than make a deal on a 90/10 split, the response was the Arab Revolt and the refusal to establish an independent state in the land of Palestine. This would be the second Palestinian Arab State because the British created the first Arab Palestinian state in 1921, the Emirate of transjordan. They had worked on it with local Arab villagers and mini Kings for 5 years. Prince bandar bin sultan spoke for over 3 hours about all the efforts of Saudi diplomats over several decades pressuring Americans and attempting to help Palestinians have their own state, but every time it was this close to a final signature, the top representative who was Yasser Arafat either rejected the deal or in one case he made an excuse to disappear for 3 months. I assume you know that the Arabs of Palestine also refused to establish a state and turned to violence instead in 1947. Is escalated to all out war in 1948 to 1949. I don't know if it's ignorance or conscience propaganda, but people seem to believe that a mass expulsion of Arabs from Israeli cities occurred on May 14th, 1948. That may be because the campaign to totally annihilate the Jews and destroy their state began on May 15th, 1948. Those two things blended together, perhaps, but it was the war that launched people fleeing or being expelled, for various reasons and depending on which historian you listen to. People fleeing War and mass expulsion, that's normal. Look at Syria and Syrian refugees. Even without outright War, there was Jewish mass expulsion from Yemen and Iraq to Morocco and Tunisia and Egypt, as well as Syria and other Muslim states. The people of Israel did not invite the people who just tried to slaughter them to come back and live in the neighborhood. Most israelis, except for probably some religious extremists, would have been overjoyed if the land for peace swaps had resulted in stable peaceful relations with sovereign Arabic, but what happened instead was some combination of terror attacks, for the first Intifada .. AS THE RESPONSE TO THE PEACE NEGOTIATIONS. October 7th was the response to diplomatic negotiations of the Abraham Accords, in which Hamas hoped to disrupt a warming relationship between Israel and other countries like UAE and Saudi Arabia. Not to discount other strategic plans that were laid out in the 1988 Hamas Declaration of existence and purpose. That includes no to any negotiated peace, same as the Arab League three nos in the 1951 Khartoum resolution, no peace, no recognition, etc. They can't have a state which has borders with Israel because that would end the war and would concede that Israel exists, is legitimized, and has borders. After October 7th, the government of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank published orders instructing mosques to begin preaching the Gharqad Tree verse which is Article 7 of the 1988 Hamas Declaration and also is Surah 2922 in the book of Hadiths that is authenticated as Sahih Muslim. That's the verse that calls for total annihilation of Jews and makes it a prerequisite to getting into heaven, a prerequisite to end times and judgment Day. So that is the government that was projected to be the responsible peaceful rulers of a sovereign Palestine nation state, but over and above any commitment to building a nation, the obsession is annihilation of the nation next door.
@@gg_rider wow for such a long worded responses you seem to be the one peddling propaganda. Let me see here getting 10% of shitty land for double the population of Arab is a good deal that they should take happily? Not surprising that is what they tried to do in Canada with Indigenous people. Nakba is a propaganda and of course people leave when they are massacred and that is normal. It’s only when it’s Europeans that it gets enshrined in booked and taught as gospel. The pre-emptive war of Israel was Arabs fault because the baddies just couldn’t be trusted. And somehow Imams are preaching hate 😂😂 dude which Hasbara telegram did you copy and paste this from?
I am absolutely absolutely shocked this video has only 1200 likes and some 6000 views. This and the next video are complete eye openers - doesn’t matter what side of this war you are on - Israeli, American Jewish, Palestinian, Arab or just about anyone. Haviv Gur dissects history so masterfully and lays out all its innards for you to see so masterfully that you can completely see and understand each side’s point of view. He does not demonize or judge any side - that is left for the viewer to figure out for themselves. He does have opinions but he makes it clear how everyone landed where they are today in this conflict. A very dramatized and action filled narrative is the Netflix series “Fauda” - makes it clear that for Israelis this conflict is hard and painful but they cannot give up because they are nowhere to go and it is about survival, not morality while for the Palestinians, it is a holy or ideological war.
i watched Fauda too, and appalling how the Israeli agents have the license to kill civilians in a gun fight if they fail to duck down. It’s a TV show and the writers may have exaggerated it. But it’s shocking to see they don’t exercise maximum tolerance protocol.
He is absolutely spewing ideology, you can't hear it because it is the very same ideology that you already believed, as evidenced by your final sentence. There are whole other groups whose story he is not telling. This is all from the perspectives of the poor bullied Jews. Did you know that Croatians, and Polish, were tortured and abused in concentration camps during this period? He calls them "Nazi collaborators" in this "history"...this is an EXTREMELY slanted history in which he has just erased or maligned multiple other groups of people who were tortured, victimized, and killed too and everyone is gushing over it. It is sick.
@@sandy-jn5rd🙄 please. When your enemy predominantly holds an annihilationist ideology you don't stop to ask questions to find out where they fall on the extremist spectrum. That's the tragedy of the reality.
Tremendous introduction for anyone wishing to understand WHY. "If you ask permission to live, eventually you're going to be told no." For this reason, Israelis are unapologetic. As the professor says, they are the world's "Jewish refugees." Their strength is a source of inspiration to me as it should be to all.
What an amazing lecture. Haviv is awesome. I’m not Jewish, just interested in the history and background. Haviv is such a magnetic and passionate speaker, and he does such an excellent job picking up on underlying themes and making them concrete. If he ever stops writing for the Times of Israel, he could easily pick up a job as a college professor and people would love his courses and analysis
So completely grateful for this. Made me sob. Because of the flood of understanding and then because of the the relief I felt in the understanding. For the words that put some sort of order to my understanding of what it is to be an American Jew today in the midst of the world of humanity. Gave me a glimpse into the stories that exist behind every human experience. Going to do my best to get others to watch.
This presentation was nothing short of astounding, as is the other video that followed! The mere fact that Israeli society is capable of producing analysis of this caliber and depth is a testament to the fundamentally honest mentality of its people. I highly recommend taking the time to watch the video on the Palestinians.
As a proud Iranian who was born in Iran, I love my people so so so much and I’m proud to be part of the oldest surviving civilization in the world - but it is with no hyperbole that I say, in my book, the Jewish people are arguably the greatest people who have ever lived. I just pray that more American Jews realize how much of a miracle and blessing from God the modern State of Israel is, both for the Jewish people and for the entire world. God bless and protect Israel, and grant her a swift and total victory over her enemies 🙏🏽 Long live Israel 🇮🇱 Long live Shah Reza Pahlavi II 👑
I too am immensely proud of the Israeli Jews , in 1969 I left the USA , where I was born, and became an Israeli-American , Today I live in Israel near Haifa . Israelis are the children, and grandchildren of the survivors of the Holocaust, the survivors of "dimmis" the Arab Middle East, even Jews from India. The Israelis are unique tough and sweet , like the sabra plant.
@@martinmartinmartin2996 SMART MAN 🫶🏽 God bless you for seeing the beauty in your people and your homeland. If I wasn’t so certain that my people back home in Iran are going to soon be liberated from the demonic Islamic regime, I would choose to live in Israel in a heartbeat over anywhere else in the world. As a Christian, I’m always warmed by the miracle that is the modern state of Israel and I thank God that I get to live during a time when the Jewish state of ISRAEL exists. Once we send these demonic mullahs and their terrorist praetorian guard the IRGC back to the deepest, darkest pits oh Hell, I will be moving back to Iran and our two peoples will be close friends and allies once again 🫶🏽 God bless Israel 🇮🇱
It brings tears to my eyes to hear your generous words. I guess we are hungry for support. Iranian culture is beautiful. So sad the fundamentalists have suppressed your prosperity. May modern ' liberalism' rise again in the world. (note: this use of liberal is not about American political parties but rather freedom and choice, and participation in govt. Thus it includes both Republicans and Democrats in U.S. )
With recent world events, I was searching RUclips for factual, good perspectives and stumbled upon Mr. Haviv Gur's clips - and haven't been disappointed since. Makes me wish I was back in my student days, with access to such enriching learning experiences. Having said that, I should add - When the rest of the world was aflame with anti-Jewish sentiment going back centuries, there's one land where Jews were always welcomed and never persecuted - That is India. This fact is actually mentioned--with gratitude--in one of the founding documents of the state of Israel. India extended that same openness to all religious groups, some religions that most folk in the West haven't even heard of - such as Zoroastrians, a minority who were also "pogromed" (by the Islamic majority in Persia). The tradition of religious tolerance in India goes back literally millenia - An Indian King, Ashoka, issued an edict 200 B.C. that no person shall be persecuted on the basis of religion, and that people are free to pray to whoever they want. Think about that - It would take literally 2000 years for Europe & the New World to come around to that same wisdom. And it's a sad testament to the stagnation of the human mind that some ideologies deny such freedom EVEN TODAY.
I am 50 and not Jew and This is the second lecture of Avi that I am listening to and wow. It was quite emotional in the lecture about the second survey done and selection was crematorium. What was felt by the people of that time after all the persecution. Hope the allies seen the same.
Great lecture!! I was born in Haifa Israel and was circumcised in King Abdullah of Jordan’s personal tent that he gave to the hospital for thanks in treating his sick son. He wanted peace and the Palestinians murdered him in Jerusalem in front of Al Aksa which led us to where we are
@@sandy-jn5rd they were Jordanian citizens. Two thirds of Jordan's population was Palestinian. It's not like they were disenfranchised or under military occupation.
Wow, this guy is a really great lecturer. As an Israeli Jew, whose grandparents all fled Iraq, I agree - most of us are refugees and descendants of refugees. It's something we just almost never think about.
Whenever people complain about Israeli democracy, I ask them “How many Israelis immigrated from democratic countries?” The answer is almost zero. Czarist Russia, Imperial Germany, Nazi Germany, Yemen, Iraq, Algeria, Libya, Morocco, the USSR”. You’ve got every system of autocratic government imaginable. Autocracy is easy. Religious fundamentalism is easy. Hating others is easy. Democracy is hard. It’s not natural, it takes time, and you have to learn by doing. Give this tiny post-colonial state a fucking break, just like you give every other messed up post-colonial state a break. And when the Palestinians have a state, trust me, it will be an equally messed up post-colonial state. I’m not saying don’t fight for democracy and peace - please do. Just - understand that Israel (and the PA and Iraq and Afghanistan and Malaysia and India and Pakistan) are not America, France, Germany, Britain or Australia. Not because if “cultural differences” or “Western values” but because it took hundreds of years for those nations to establish the kind of democracies they have today, EVEN WHILE they controlled most of the power, money and resources available globally.
I think Zionism places a huge emphasis on not having a "victim mentality" which did prove very fruitful in the project of state-building, but of course that also had its downsides.
American jewery for years: "what if israel loses its legitimacy?" Me, non jew, for all those years: "If israel has any risk of losing its legitimacy, every country around it lost a long time ago, and so did you."
As an Israeli I can totally see my family's history in this lecture. Fisrt time I leaned about the Jewish- American history though and frankly - very moving.
Great instructor, a demanding, engaging instructor. You can see how much he is working to create understanding, and not rote memorization. Great speaker.
Another Midwestern town with an opera, Kansas City (Lyric Opera). A good book about KC Jewish history is "Roots in a moving stream: The centennial history of Congregation B'nai Jehudah of Kansas City, 1870-1970" by Frank Adler. The book speaks about the relationship between the German (came primarily in the mid-1800s as he says) and Russian (came primarily in the late 1800s and early 1900s) Jewish communities of Kansas City.
Not all Israelis are refugees. My family for example, immigrated from Europe to South America, where both my parents were born. They had a very good and comfortable life there but decided to make Aliya (immigrated) to Israel about 50 years ago for Ideological reasons. They were offered to go to the U.S. and had refused. I'm glad they did 😊
SALaM, SHLAMa, SHLOMo, SHALoM, NAMASTe, PEACe. ZiONiSM & STATe TERRORiSM, Have Nothing To Do With JUDAiSM. ISIS, TALEBaN & TERRORiSM, Have Nothing To Do With ISLaM.
Thank you very much for this lecture! So profound, authentic, insightful and detailed. Blessings to Israel - may it continue to be a safe homeland for the Jews 🙏
In 1938, the Philippine Commonwealth was willing to grant 15,000 visas to German Jews. However, since they had to travel via Siberia only 1,500 made it. After the war most were able to go to America.
Wow spot on. I think the Israelis though have learned "the jewish lesson" all the way through to its very bitter end, while the American jews (who didn't expirence the holocost) didnt.. their "luck" of finding America is now proving to be temporary.
This is fascinating, especially as a British jew whose family have mostly been in Britian since the Spanish Inquisition. I listened to part 2 fist but it's been well worth coming back to find part 1. Thanks Haviv ❤️
Wonderful part of the Jewish History well done. What I don’t understand is why the history of the Jews of the Middle East was omitted from this lecture. It is an important piece that add to the Holocaust and Israel’s history . These Jews also faced pogroms and in fact were exiled and their property confiscated simply because they were Jews Appreciate Mr Gur’s response
True -- he needs to do another lecture. And these jews are now > 50% of ISrael's poopulation. AS an ashkenazi israel-born jew I'm ashamed to say we dominate the narrative.
He mentioned they also suffered but doesn't really elaborate. You're right that a lot more can be said about it. There are other videos specifically about this topic (not by Haviv)
I'm pretty sure he had a scheduled time, seems he was mostly talking to american Jews, he didn't mention the more recent Russian immigration or the Ethiopian at all.
I am blessed to listen, I appreciate your deep insights thank you - so much to learn about The Global Empire Problem , to make the world a better place we need Israel and God who is protecting you - even from uttermost parts of the sea NZ thanks again
You can find it on the channel of the Shalem College or on RUclips under "The Great Misinterpretation." It posted 2 weeks ago. Just as good as this one, actually even better IMHO. These students can count themselves very lucky to have been able to experience these lectures and visit Israel.
I want to add; there's a connection between American Jewish culture & African American culture he didn't explore. (This isn't a criticism. You can't cover everything in a lecture & the lecture emphasizes the differences between Israeli Jews & American Jews.). The connection is, ironically, religious. It is that African American Christianity shines a light on Moses because he freed the slaves. No other Christian community holds Moses so high. Also, despite the differences in style & melody, song & dance are essential in African American churches, & essential in Orthodox Jewish practices . . . .
How are song and dance essential in Jewish orthodox rituals? Most cultures have been influenced by Israel and its Torah. So there’s a connection between the Jewish people and Black Americans, as well as to white Christians, Arabs, Europeans, Russian orthodox Christians, Latinos, etc.
@@LOPEKJJJHave you seen all the clips of IDF soldiers dancing? You can also find lots of clips of religious Jews dancing. And you might want to check out the rap music of Orthodox Jewish Nissim Black. He is cool.
Most Jews fleeing Eastern Europe from 1880 to 1920 understood immediately what racism meant in America. It meant exactly what they just left. They knew it was wrong and they sympathized, even as they were also glad that for once they were not the target. Bring classified as white - as part of a majority group - was the biggest ironic joke any Eastern European Jew could possibly have experienced. For this reason, American Jews have - until very recently - been the least attached to white identity of any white immigrants. I’m not saying we aren’t attached - everyone offered full citizenship takes that offer - just that we understood immediately that America was confused and thought we were a protected religion instead of a hated ethno nationalist group. And those who were paying close attention understood that Jews could only be part of the “majority” because someone else had taken our usual place as the “minority”.
Of course not because it will change the course of history and global politics. I disagree that he thinks Palestinians are unaware of Israelis as refugees. The concept of insane is fundamental part of Muslims faith, however Israeli IdF applying Christian thinking and firming up nationalistic identities (all the things that they resented) is the problem. They are not coming up the “final solution” they want their land back and why should they be apologetic? They have a moral and just ask. If we deny it then we are playing into hierarchy of victimhood. For all the folks listening to lectures here would be great for them to learn the global history in the 1800 of the world to understand that everyone was screwed who wasn’t a Christian European.
So perfectly put. We are Israelis and we won’t explain to anyone why we are here. We will never ask for anyone’s permission to be. We are and will always be 🇮🇱
So George Washington basically says, don't worry, we're not an ethno-nationalist state, our nation is inclusive of those present in the territory. The irony is not lost on me. Great talk! Haviv is a natural publioc speaker.
What an amazing, deep, enlightening, nuanced history. But, please, what about this: Some Palestinians and their supporters know full well that Israelis are to a huge degree refugees - and they say: WHY do they have to seek refuge HERE? Why is everyone (including other Middle Eastern countries) asking the people of the Western part of the Mandate for Palestine to "pay the price" for everyone else's destructive behavior by accepting the "refuse" rejected by everybody else? I will listen to "The Great Misinterpretation" and if I hear something about this, I will return to this comment and add the insight.
Dude, most of the Arabs that call themselves “Palestinians” are not even native to the land. Their forebears came to the Mandate from surrounding countries, such as Egypt, once the British arrived in the 1920s. They’re basically just squatter-terrorists. Or terrorist-squatters.
Because it's our ancient homeland, it's the place jews are indigenous to, where we became a nation. There were also non stop Jewish communities there for thousands of years, so the Jews were essentially joining the other Jews that were already there
I think the most honest answer is that they have a point and it wasn’t their job to accept Jewish refugees. But Jews are a Semitic people and TBH the longer Israel exists, the most Semitic Israeli and all Jews worldwide have become. I think you can recognize that the Palestinians experienced a historic injustice and tremendous loss and also that most Jews would never have arrived there unless they were fleeing for their lives. Now both people have experienced dispossession and loss and in theory that can create more understanding rather than more hatred IF they are willing to take seriously the others experience.
I do like these lectures of Haviv and I believe he has some very good insights on both the Palestian and Israeli historical point of view. Especially his lecture on the palestian’s misunderstanding I found to be very insightful. However one point I do take some issue with is his insistence on presenting the Zionist movement as a rescue mission. While I believe that the Jews who went there in the early days and up until at least the 50-60s can be classified as such, what the Israeli project has turned into today cannot be seen in such a generous light. As it exists now, it does clearly present signs of a colonial project and it does actively try to undermine Palestinian existence. I have great sympathy for the Jewish people and understand why they want to have a homeland, but I feel that uncritically conflating the the reasons of the past with the actions of today is intellectually dishonest and primarily serves to wash the consciousness of it’s people. I hope haviv keeps doing these great lectures, I still feel that their core message is still very strong and should be heard by more.
what are the signs of a colonial project? Apartheid? Why does apartheid exist? And what’s your solution to replace it in light of the fact that Hamas have told Jews in no uncertain terms that they’re coming for the lives of Jewish women and children as soon as they have a chance which means as soon as Israel withdraws and allows them to reconstitute themselves. You really need to learn to think through the implications of what you’re saying.
@@le_rayon_vertOn september 8th there were discussions on German TV about sending fighter jets to help patrol Israel's borders ( Germany has a defense treaty with Israel since 1952, for very obvious reasons). The reason why settlers are a problem is that it not only means Israel wants more land ( which it does not need, true victory is the life you build for your children and they turned the desert into gold and created the only democracy in the region) but it creates a legal issue that prevents Israel's allies from protecting Israel. Even if I understand why Israelis think they are alone and have always been alone, I think it a good idea to try to not be alone and prove your enemies wrong and your allies right.
@@kathrinscharrer3923 oh I agree entirely. Israel are doing so much that is wrong, including, as far as I can tell, the settlers etc. But you have to admit there are so few voices at the moment even attempting to give a full accounting of all the pieces of the conflict. And as such, these voices do nothing but contribute to further polarisation and fracture and empower the very hardliners and extremists on both sides who are now effectively in charge.
@@le_rayon_vert I agree with you 100%. As a German living in Spain I had to leave the ( not at all radical) social democratic party because nobody is willing or able to critizise Israeli government without questioning Israel's right to exist. Nobody knows what Farhud of Bagdad is or when it happened, nobody talks about jews in the arab world and so forth. Sprinkled with cristal clear antisemitism ( " these jews are all....") and holocaust comparisons ( as a German I had to learn that starting a war and getting bombed and occupied and so on is NOT a holocaust, but hey, apparently people can say whatever they want, in Spain that is, not in Germany). When I asked them where their jews were they said it did not matter because all that was 500 years ago. The protests are a desaster: one side marching against the state of Israel in this postcolonial fantasy thing that makes everything easy for the left. Pro Israel demonstrations full of Spanish far right leaders who suddenly love jews because they have an agenda against muslim inmigrants. The only worthwile event I attended was a discussion between Ehud Olmert and a former palestinian foreign affairs minister who are touring Europe with a peace plan based on the 2008 peace plan. But most of what surrounds me is a horrible football match that causes me great despair.
@@le_rayon_vert And you are spot on about this " apartheid" nonsense, people refuse to acknowledge that arab israelis exist andvthat they are the same people as palestinians. I have met some, and especially women were very happy to be Israelis.
Mr. Gur, I can explain it in one simple story - the role of the Jews in the American mind. I grew up in New England believing that half of all Americans were Jews. Half of my friends, boyfriends and ancestors were Jewish after all. But a strange dilemma interrupted my peace of mind when I finally encountered a critically important character in history who had not been part of the Anglosphere, and whose name was therefore unknown to me despite an absurdly expensive, expansive education: the Father of Human Rights, the Spaniard Bartolomé de Las Casas. He was a friar who crossed the Atlantic 14 times to persuade the Pope that American Indians were human beings, a profoundly crucial and successful mission with repercussions to this day. But something was wrong. A person driven to protect these unheard of new people in an unimagined new world unknown to the Greeks or the Hebrews … HAD to have been Jewish, which a friar is not by definition. Yet he had taken on the esoteric and liberal role of a Jew, not a friar, which I found oddly disturbing. The story had to be wrong or all those decades of understanding the world I’d embarked on had disclosed a whopping exception. There was nothing to do but read past it. But what a relief to find, some two years later, that Las Casas had come (of course!) from a family of conversos - Jews who had converted to remain in Spain. I could make a private peace with a troublesome episode of history. My world, and the roles various peoples had been chosen to play in it, was allowed to resume its orbit around the sun.
To express my approval of Haviv Rettig Gur, I'll have to quote one of the most well-known musical entertainers with the thickest German accent possible who was always fond of saying "ONERFUL, ONERFUL"🙃
Got a question: When for example the US Quota Act from 1924 would limit Jewish immigrants to enter the US, would that also apply to let's say a British Jewish family wanting to immigrate from the UK to the US? Or only for the Jews fleeing from Eastern Europe. Thank you. BTW: Thank you for the effort and letting the rest of the world participate in this learning experience. Fantastic lecture. Learned so much. Watched Part 2 ("The Great Misinterpretation") also. Just as good.
That is a great lecture! I have learned a lot! And that is coming from an Israeli in the diaspora (Europe) that has written her master thesis on Jewish identity in America . Well done. Will certainly share this
Thank you tor this great lecture. I have been wondering about when the Arab pogroms where carried out and how many Jews fled to Israel. The Aliyah changes graph was more comprehensive than the figures i managed to find googling.
A great lecture delivered with passion. History has to be read on a broad scale with unbiased points of views. I am keen to know books by the lecturer as well as of Rashid Khalidi ,Miko paled On the whole very very stimulating delivery. Let us all be kind despite all.I t is most creative period of age .Do your things.
As an Israeli who came-to Israel from Wales, U K in 1965. My Husband is an Israeli kibbutznik I really appreciate this lecture. Everyone should come here . We need more young Americans to make Israel stronger.
Today you would have to be religious to come. I know many who tried, it just didn’t work for them. I know people who were talked out of it by their Israeli relatives.
@@GA-sn1hn I am an Israeli and my wife and kids have an American citizenship. After 7.10 she was willing to consider us moving there, but when all the college antisemitism rose, it seemed harder to decide which country if safer for our kids.
by starting in 1881 you left out almost 200 years of Sephardic Jewish history in America from Abraham Judah in Rhode Island, Franks and Isaacs in Philadelphia, to Henry Yulee from Morocco to HaLevi in 1698 Delaware. This is primarily a Russian Jewish history, but its very good. Do you think those Jews migrating from Russia would be in America without the well established and historic Sephardic population？
He left that history out because it doesn’t serve his thesis to explain why Americans Jews are so liberal. It ignores the sefardic jews that first settled America and people like Judah P Benjamin who owned slaves and was the number 2 man in the confederacy.
What Herzl didn't realize is that modernism (or is it capitalism?) will eventually also destroy national identities, not just familial, clannish village, and tribal ones. And now it seems to be destroying even integrated individuals (with the attention economy). National identities seem to be able to be maintained only through common enemies and collective crises. Both Palestinians and Israelis could benefit from the restoration of these levels of organization. The Palestinians need villages. not a sprawling metropolis. And the Israelis need to rehabilitate their Kibbutzim, but not as socialist enterprises.
My great grandparents caught the boat to america. I'm glad they did. Not until Prof. Gur's very last gesture, did it occur to me that his lecture took a lot of energy and emotion to deliver. Great lecturer. So, I already saw the "Palestinians" lecture, and just watched this lecture on the Jews. I suppose Mr. Gur hopes that if enough folks become educated on who the Jews really are, and who the Palestinians really are, and enough of them dispel the falsehoods that they currently believe about themselves and the "Other", that they will be able to settle with each other. It would be good to be educated in a history that's based in fact, not myth, but I'm not sure there is any precedence for that in history bringing peace. What we do have, however, is the fact there are 2M Arabs living peacably inside Israel, and Israel has been recognized by some arab states, and there has been no war with these states since recognition. So, I can see a certain series of actions ending in a peaceful settlement of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Israel annexes the West Bank and offers citizenship to its Arab inhabitants pending, as it did for Israeli Arabs, successfully completing a probationary period and then pledge allegiance to the state, same as most states require of immigrants. UNRWA is foreclosed. It's operations taken over by UNHRWA, the UN agency which has handled 200M refugees for planet Earth over the last 74 years, all but for the Palestinians. Now, the Palestinians would be treated same as all other Earthlings. Tbey would be settled. Some, would be repatriated to Israel; they would be screened and given the same opportunity to become citizens as West Bank Arabs. Most, though, would be settled either in their present host countries, or in other countries. It would simply have to be done. Would there be risks, casualties, for Israel? Yes, but I think the Israeli's would agree it would be worth it, and they would defend, mostly successfully, against saboteurs accepted into Greater Israel. Do I have a plan for how annexation would be accepted by the world? No. But as Mr. Gur pointed out, Israeli's don't ask for permission. There would have to be an arrangement, whereby the Al Aqsa Mosque was primarily administered by Islamists, possibly a committee representing several Arab states as well as Israeli Arabs, and the Palestinians newly added into the Israeli state. Maybe something on the order of the Vatican in Rome. Hateful anti-Israel, and anti-semitic education would not be allowed any longer for Palestinian children. I think we could rely on Mr. Gur, heading a committee of Israeli and Palestinian historans, to come up with school texts that all schools, whether Jewish, Arab, or other would use regarding the history of these Peoples and of Israel and Palestine. It wouldn't sugarcoat or ignore the crimes, pain, or errors of any of the players. But, it would provide context and it would be, as far as possible, based in fact. I don't think the most influential Arab nations today are so concerned about a Palestinian state. I don't think they believe it's necessary to create that state to resolve the problem, and it's the problem that they want solved, not the state. They are not that keen on the creation of a tiny, deranged, and imperfectly defanged Arab state that will continue to war on Israel when it can. That will be hardly any better, and could be much worse, than the Palestinian situation today. Mostly, they want the problem solved so that it doesn't threaten their interests or their security. They would really rather work with the Israeli's on security, stability and prosperity for the Sunni region I think this could work. ,
The misunderstanding between Jews and Euro-Americans is profound, and Lawrence Auster has described it in his essay, available online: Jews- archetypal multiculturalists.
He makes many excellent points. But I think his interpretation that "US Jews are afraid because if American liberal democracy fails (using the classic meaning of "liberal democracy" here), it will be terrible for Jews --and everyone." That's partly true, but the other side of the coin is equally valid: many American Jews (and others) are motivated to action by a simple desire for justice for all and the desire to fulfill the still-unmet promise of American liberal democracy. Not fear, but a profound desire to fulfill the dream.
Herzl wrote in his diary at the end of the 19th century that the Jewish goal is to do discret ethnic cleansing in Palestine but discret ethnic cleansing was only short lived. As soon as 1948, ethnic cleansing was practiced in the open. I am just an Asian Catholic American with independent observation.
Here the problem that antisemites like you always miss: 1) Hertz never used the words "ethnic cleansing " 2) a diary is not a political program 3) Hertz died in 1904 , 44 years before Israel existed , so he had no involvement in any actual plan 4) there was no ethnic cleansing in 1948 , you are talking about the fact the Arabs started a war to destroy Israel but they lost the war. Some Arabs that were involved directly in the conflict were expelled from Israel. Today there are 2 million Arabs living in Israel as citizen...so much for the "ethnic cleansing " you: "I am just an Asian Catholic American with independent observation." And an antisemite despite Jesus was a Jew because His Father so decided. Next time before spreading lies and hatred read your Bible and see if you are on the "same page" as your God.
The dichotomy of psychology is really profound between "I will be good and pleasing to others, I won't make waves, I won't be bad or difficult, so that I can be loved/accepted/wanted/safe;" versus, "I am worthy and valuable and inherently loved, just because I exist, and I don't need anyone's approval to justify my existence."
Well that explains the Palestinians in WestBank. Why should they be good victims and allow to be displaced and killed and be unwanted.
@@Tas2270 if they believed that they are worthy and valuable and inherently loved, they wouldn't want to murder jews nor kill themselves in the process. They don't love themselves. No one is asking them to justify their existence. If they valued themselves and their lives, and the lives of others and wanted peace, if they would be partners for peace, rather than destructive, there would have been a successful two state solution decades ago. They aren't victims. They make themselves into martyrs for a cause - the eradication of Israel. If they dropped this genocidal cause, everyone would live together beautifully.
Who is displacing them? 20% of Israel's population is Palestinians who choose to treat jews as equals. Those guys in Gaza and West Bank refuse to accept a jew as an equal.
@@Tas2270 the Palestinians were offered a country in 1936, 90/10 split.
Not only was there the refugee issue from Europe, There were local indigenous Jews who never left, and there were refugees from Arab countries.
Jews had purchased land from Arabs to the extent that some of the Arabs persecuted (to death) 150 other Arab leaders for selling Islamic holy lands that Muhammad (actually, Umar) conquered in 637.
Rather than make a deal on a 90/10 split, the response was the Arab Revolt and the refusal to establish an independent state in the land of Palestine.
This would be the second Palestinian Arab State because the British created the first Arab Palestinian state in 1921, the Emirate of transjordan. They had worked on it with local Arab villagers and mini Kings for 5 years.
Prince bandar bin sultan spoke for over 3 hours about all the efforts of Saudi diplomats over several decades pressuring Americans and attempting to help Palestinians have their own state, but every time it was this close to a final signature, the top representative who was Yasser Arafat either rejected the deal or in one case he made an excuse to disappear for 3 months.
I assume you know that the Arabs of Palestine also refused to establish a state and turned to violence instead in 1947. Is escalated to all out war in 1948 to 1949.
I don't know if it's ignorance or conscience propaganda, but people seem to believe that a mass expulsion of Arabs from Israeli cities occurred on May 14th, 1948. That may be because the campaign to totally annihilate the Jews and destroy their state began on May 15th, 1948. Those two things blended together, perhaps, but it was the war that launched people fleeing or being expelled, for various reasons and depending on which historian you listen to.
People fleeing War and mass expulsion, that's normal. Look at Syria and Syrian refugees. Even without outright War, there was Jewish mass expulsion from Yemen and Iraq to Morocco and Tunisia and Egypt, as well as Syria and other Muslim states.
The people of Israel did not invite the people who just tried to slaughter them to come back and live in the neighborhood.
Most israelis, except for probably some religious extremists, would have been overjoyed if the land for peace swaps had resulted in stable peaceful relations with sovereign Arabic, but what happened instead was some combination of terror attacks, for the first Intifada .. AS THE RESPONSE TO THE PEACE NEGOTIATIONS.
October 7th was the response to diplomatic negotiations of the Abraham Accords, in which Hamas hoped to disrupt a warming relationship between Israel and other countries like UAE and Saudi Arabia. Not to discount other strategic plans that were laid out in the 1988 Hamas Declaration of existence and purpose.
That includes no to any negotiated peace, same as the Arab League three nos in the 1951 Khartoum resolution, no peace, no recognition, etc.
They can't have a state which has borders with Israel because that would end the war and would concede that Israel exists, is legitimized, and has borders.
After October 7th, the government of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank published orders instructing mosques to begin preaching the Gharqad Tree verse which is Article 7 of the 1988 Hamas Declaration and also is Surah 2922 in the book of Hadiths that is authenticated as Sahih Muslim. That's the verse that calls for total annihilation of Jews and makes it a prerequisite to getting into heaven, a prerequisite to end times and judgment Day.
So that is the government that was projected to be the responsible peaceful rulers of a sovereign Palestine nation state, but over and above any commitment to building a nation, the obsession is annihilation of the nation next door.
@@gg_rider wow for such a long worded responses you seem to be the one peddling propaganda. Let me see here getting 10% of shitty land for double the population of Arab is a good deal that they should take happily? Not surprising that is what they tried to do in Canada with Indigenous people. Nakba is a propaganda and of course people leave when they are massacred and that is normal. It’s only when it’s Europeans that it gets enshrined in booked and taught as gospel. The pre-emptive war of Israel was Arabs fault because the baddies just couldn’t be trusted. And somehow Imams are preaching hate 😂😂 dude which Hasbara telegram did you copy and paste this from?
I see Haviv & I click on. A simple rubric which has never let me down 🥂
I just ground him. I’m
Now looking for everything. Amazing.
Gur is brilliant. Loved hearing him get so amped up, he's usually very measured.
Bro is great
A brilliant analysis of basic historys and realities of American and Israeli Jewery. Amazing and profound.
Said so well. Thank you.
😢@@harlanglass
I’m not even Jewish or Arab and I love hearing this kind of lecture.
Me too!
Same here a Christian American
This is a great article about
How 😢we got to this point
Haviv is a treasure!
I am absolutely absolutely shocked this video has only 1200 likes and some 6000 views. This and the next video are complete eye openers - doesn’t matter what side of this war you are on - Israeli, American Jewish, Palestinian, Arab or just about anyone. Haviv Gur dissects history so masterfully and lays out all its innards for you to see so masterfully that you can completely see and understand each side’s point of view. He does not demonize or judge any side - that is left for the viewer to figure out for themselves. He does have opinions but he makes it clear how everyone landed where they are today in this conflict. A very dramatized and action filled narrative is the Netflix series “Fauda” - makes it clear that for Israelis this conflict is hard and painful but they cannot give up because they are nowhere to go and it is about survival, not morality while for the Palestinians, it is a holy or ideological war.
holy or ideology war 😢😢😢 sad. Means, it MUST be war? Jews are the only remaining "NATION" and the only with the divine right to kill?
i watched Fauda too, and appalling how the Israeli agents have the license to kill civilians in a gun fight if they fail to duck down. It’s a TV show and the writers may have exaggerated it. But it’s shocking to see they don’t exercise maximum tolerance protocol.
He is absolutely spewing ideology, you can't hear it because it is the very same ideology that you already believed, as evidenced by your final sentence. There are whole other groups whose story he is not telling. This is all from the perspectives of the poor bullied Jews. Did you know that Croatians, and Polish, were tortured and abused in concentration camps during this period? He calls them "Nazi collaborators" in this "history"...this is an EXTREMELY slanted history in which he has just erased or maligned multiple other groups of people who were
tortured, victimized, and killed too and everyone is gushing over it. It is sick.
Israelis can literally travel.anywhere in the world, but Palestinians cannot. You are inverting the truth
@@sandy-jn5rd🙄 please. When your enemy predominantly holds an annihilationist ideology you don't stop to ask questions to find out where they fall on the extremist spectrum. That's the tragedy of the reality.
I thought I knew jewish history. This class was amazing!!!
Excellent speaker. Fascinating and moving lecture. Before this I only knew of him as a journalist.
Wonderful lecture, heartbreaking. He is really good at delivering the message. I really felt the pain of these people.
Tremendous introduction for anyone wishing to understand WHY. "If you ask permission to live, eventually you're going to be told no." For this reason, Israelis are unapologetic. As the professor says, they are the world's "Jewish refugees." Their strength is a source of inspiration to me as it should be to all.
What an amazing lecture. Haviv is awesome. I’m not Jewish, just interested in the history and background. Haviv is such a magnetic and passionate speaker, and he does such an excellent job picking up on underlying themes and making them concrete. If he ever stops writing for the Times of Israel, he could easily pick up a job as a college professor and people would love his courses and analysis
I'm envious. As a Greek I wish we had someone to explain our modern history to us like that guy did for you. Instead we get BS after BS.
I fear that So much of your beautiful culture, the best culture, was purposefully destroyed by the genocidal Ottoman Turks
He’s mostly wrong, but he makes a brilliant argument.
Lol. You've got communists like Yanis Vanoufakis!
But don't feel too bad. Jews have idiotic self-hating commies among their ranks too
@@LOPEKJJJ Share a video of your historical talks please, to elucidate?
Yes..school and mainstream media is total garbage 🗑....they don't teach the truth and all the ugly facts...everything is made up
Haviv has such a dynamic presentation and did an amazing job with this ❤
Wow. How impressive and the best articulated answer to the “Jewish Question”. Genius. Thank you
So completely grateful for this. Made me sob. Because of the flood of understanding and then because of the the relief I felt in the understanding. For the words that put some sort of order to my understanding of what it is to be an American Jew today in the midst of the world of humanity. Gave me a glimpse into the stories that exist behind every human experience. Going to do my best to get others to watch.
This presentation was nothing short of astounding, as is the other video that followed! The mere fact that Israeli society is capable of producing analysis of this caliber and depth is a testament to the fundamentally honest mentality of its people.
I highly recommend taking the time to watch the video on the Palestinians.
As a proud Iranian who was born in Iran, I love my people so so so much and I’m proud to be part of the oldest surviving civilization in the world - but it is with no hyperbole that I say, in my book, the Jewish people are arguably the greatest people who have ever lived. I just pray that more American Jews realize how much of a miracle and blessing from God the modern State of Israel is, both for the Jewish people and for the entire world. God bless and protect Israel, and grant her a swift and total victory over her enemies 🙏🏽
Long live Israel 🇮🇱
Long live Shah Reza Pahlavi II 👑
Why are Iranians so effing cool? THank you for your words. I hope we can all get rid of the Ayatollahs soon and you can get your country back!
I too am immensely proud of the Israeli Jews , in 1969 I left the USA , where I was born, and became an Israeli-American , Today I live in Israel near Haifa .
Israelis are the children, and grandchildren of the survivors of the Holocaust, the survivors of "dimmis" the Arab Middle East, even Jews from India.
The Israelis are unique tough and sweet , like the sabra plant.
@@martinmartinmartin2996 SMART MAN 🫶🏽 God bless you for seeing the beauty in your people and your homeland. If I wasn’t so certain that my people back home in Iran are going to soon be liberated from the demonic Islamic regime, I would choose to live in Israel in a heartbeat over anywhere else in the world. As a Christian, I’m always warmed by the miracle that is the modern state of Israel and I thank God that I get to live during a time when the Jewish state of ISRAEL exists.
Once we send these demonic mullahs and their terrorist praetorian guard the IRGC back to the deepest, darkest pits oh Hell, I will be moving back to Iran and our two peoples will be close friends and allies once again 🫶🏽 God bless Israel 🇮🇱
Thank you, you're awesome! Happy New Years, I believe?
It brings tears to my eyes to hear your generous words. I guess we are hungry for support.
Iranian culture is beautiful. So sad the fundamentalists have suppressed your prosperity. May modern ' liberalism' rise again in the world. (note: this use of liberal is not about American political parties but rather freedom and choice, and participation in govt. Thus it includes both Republicans and Democrats in U.S. )
His lecture was so informative and of such clarity! I am not Jewish but during this lecture I cried on three different occasions.
Looking forward to lecture number 2!
This came out on YT a few days ago: The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur
With recent world events, I was searching RUclips for factual, good perspectives and stumbled upon Mr. Haviv Gur's clips - and haven't been disappointed since. Makes me wish I was back in my student days, with access to such enriching learning experiences. Having said that, I should add - When the rest of the world was aflame with anti-Jewish sentiment going back centuries, there's one land where Jews were always welcomed and never persecuted - That is India. This fact is actually mentioned--with gratitude--in one of the founding documents of the state of Israel.
India extended that same openness to all religious groups, some religions that most folk in the West haven't even heard of - such as Zoroastrians, a minority who were also "pogromed" (by the Islamic majority in Persia). The tradition of religious tolerance in India goes back literally millenia - An Indian King, Ashoka, issued an edict 200 B.C. that no person shall be persecuted on the basis of religion, and that people are free to pray to whoever they want. Think about that - It would take literally 2000 years for Europe & the New World to come around to that same wisdom. And it's a sad testament to the stagnation of the human mind that some ideologies deny such freedom EVEN TODAY.
Yep, and we Jews (as are Indians too) have a VERY good memory (Kirgil etc')
I am 50 and not Jew and This is the second lecture of Avi that I am listening to and wow. It was quite emotional in the lecture about the second survey done and selection was crematorium. What was felt by the people of that time after all the persecution. Hope the allies seen the same.
*Haviv
Gur, you are my campus. I wish I could digest and spew knowledge like you do. ALUF!
Keep studying and practicing. Memorize a few passages and see how your tongue will become more disciplined and flexible. Read a lot 🤝
Great lecture!! I was born in Haifa Israel and was circumcised in King Abdullah of Jordan’s personal tent that he gave to the hospital for thanks in treating his sick son. He wanted peace and the Palestinians murdered him in Jerusalem in front of Al Aksa which led us to where we are
in fairness, the Palestinian assassinated him for annexing West Bank in 1950, leaving them no land left of their own
@@sandy-jn5rd they were Jordanian citizens. Two thirds of Jordan's population was Palestinian. It's not like they were disenfranchised or under military occupation.
I am looking forward to the next lecture, thank you very much!
This came out March 14th on YT: The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur
Wow, this guy is a really great lecturer.
As an Israeli Jew, whose grandparents all fled Iraq, I agree - most of us are refugees and descendants of refugees. It's something we just almost never think about.
Whenever people complain about Israeli democracy, I ask them “How many Israelis immigrated from democratic countries?” The answer is almost zero. Czarist Russia, Imperial Germany, Nazi Germany, Yemen, Iraq, Algeria, Libya, Morocco, the USSR”. You’ve got every system of autocratic government imaginable. Autocracy is easy. Religious fundamentalism is easy. Hating others is easy. Democracy is hard. It’s not natural, it takes time, and you have to learn by doing. Give this tiny post-colonial state a fucking break, just like you give every other messed up post-colonial state a break. And when the Palestinians have a state, trust me, it will be an equally messed up post-colonial state. I’m not saying don’t fight for democracy and peace - please do. Just - understand that Israel (and the PA and Iraq and Afghanistan and Malaysia and India and Pakistan) are not America, France, Germany, Britain or Australia. Not because if “cultural differences” or “Western values” but because it took hundreds of years for those nations to establish the kind of democracies they have today, EVEN WHILE they controlled most of the power, money and resources available globally.
I think Zionism places a huge emphasis on not having a "victim mentality" which did prove very fruitful in the project of state-building, but of course that also had its downsides.
I think about it every day but never did nearly as much before October
@@deskset7436 well said.
American jewery for years: "what if israel loses its legitimacy?"
Me, non jew, for all those years:
"If israel has any risk of losing its legitimacy, every country around it lost a long time ago, and so did you."
Dumbest thing I’ve read in a long time
@adonissalameh7984 not an argument.
So powerful, and revealing, about the nature and consequence of freedom. His storytelling generates perspective. Biblical, in a way.
As an Israeli I can totally see my family's history in this lecture. Fisrt time I leaned about the Jewish- American history though and frankly - very moving.
This was amazing!
Waiting for the next lecture.
Great instructor, a demanding, engaging instructor. You can see how much he is working to create understanding, and not rote memorization. Great speaker.
I wish sometimes I have blankets to cover and protect all Jews. This makes me cry but also hopeful on the resilience of Jewish people.
🙏🏼❤️🇮🇱
Another Midwestern town with an opera, Kansas City (Lyric Opera). A good book about KC Jewish history is "Roots in a moving stream: The centennial history of Congregation B'nai Jehudah of Kansas City, 1870-1970" by Frank Adler. The book speaks about the relationship between the German (came primarily in the mid-1800s as he says) and Russian (came primarily in the late 1800s and early 1900s) Jewish communities of Kansas City.
I'm so glad my great grandparents escaped from there to eastern Australia 🌏, which is where I am.
Not all Israelis are refugees. My family for example, immigrated from Europe to South America, where both my parents were born. They had a very good and comfortable life there but decided to make Aliya (immigrated) to Israel about 50 years ago for Ideological reasons. They were offered to go to the U.S. and had refused. I'm glad they did 😊
I owe an abiding debt of gratitude to my forebears for having the guts, initiative, risk taking attitude to flee Eastern Europe for the States.
@theunboundDragon what an effing evil ideology
@@theunboundDragonlol tou aren’t helping 😅
Outstanding! A learning dissertation.
SALaM, SHLAMa, SHLOMo, SHALoM, NAMASTe, PEACe.
ZiONiSM & STATe TERRORiSM, Have Nothing To Do With JUDAiSM.
ISIS, TALEBaN & TERRORiSM, Have Nothing To Do With ISLaM.
You're fantastic keep up the good work!
Thank you very much for this lecture! So profound, authentic, insightful and detailed.
Blessings to Israel - may it continue to be a safe homeland for the Jews 🙏
In 1938, the Philippine Commonwealth was willing to grant 15,000 visas to German Jews. However, since they had to travel via Siberia only 1,500 made it. After the war most were able to go to America.
Wow spot on.
I think the Israelis though have learned "the jewish lesson" all the way through to its very bitter end, while the American jews (who didn't expirence the holocost) didnt.. their "luck" of finding America is now proving to be temporary.
Everybody's luck in finding America is proving to be temporary
So the Holocaust lesson is to go and displace another people.
@@marknaj3026 nope
Bro this guy goes DEEP into (modern) Jewish history
I love his final statement...absolute truth. You could apply that to many many situations 🙌
This is fascinating, especially as a British jew whose family have mostly been in Britian since the Spanish Inquisition. I listened to part 2 fist but it's been well worth coming back to find part 1. Thanks Haviv ❤️
Wonderful part of the Jewish History well done.
What I don’t understand is why the history of the Jews of the Middle East was omitted from this lecture.
It is an important piece that add to the Holocaust and Israel’s history .
These Jews also faced pogroms and in fact were exiled and their property confiscated simply because they were Jews
Appreciate Mr Gur’s response
True -- he needs to do another lecture. And these jews are now > 50% of ISrael's poopulation. AS an ashkenazi israel-born jew I'm ashamed to say we dominate the narrative.
It's not omitted. There's a graph showing the percentage of Arab jews of the Aliyot in different years 27:30, and he talks about it for a few minutes
He mentioned they also suffered but doesn't really elaborate. You're right that a lot more can be said about it. There are other videos specifically about this topic (not by Haviv)
I'm pretty sure he had a scheduled time, seems he was mostly talking to american Jews, he didn't mention the more recent Russian immigration or the Ethiopian at all.
I am blessed to listen, I appreciate your deep insights thank you - so much to learn about The Global Empire Problem , to make the world a better place we need Israel and God who is protecting you - even from uttermost parts of the sea NZ thanks again
Powerful ending. Never really thought about that.
Where are the rest of these
You can find it on the channel of the Shalem College or on RUclips under "The Great Misinterpretation." It posted 2 weeks ago. Just as good as this one, actually even better IMHO. These students can count themselves very lucky to have been able to experience these lectures and visit Israel.
I am Syrian and I enjoyed this. Thank you :)
Impressive lecture and energetic delivery. Love this.
Thanks Professor.
Wow, what an incredible lecture, no bs
I want to add; there's a connection between American Jewish culture & African American culture he didn't explore. (This isn't a criticism. You can't cover everything in a lecture & the lecture emphasizes the differences between Israeli Jews & American Jews.). The connection is, ironically, religious. It is that African American Christianity shines a light on Moses because he freed the slaves. No other Christian community holds Moses so high. Also, despite the differences in style & melody, song & dance are essential in African American churches, & essential in Orthodox Jewish practices . . . .
How are song and dance essential in Jewish orthodox rituals?
Most cultures have been influenced by Israel and its Torah. So there’s a connection between the Jewish people and Black Americans, as well as to white Christians, Arabs, Europeans, Russian orthodox Christians, Latinos, etc.
@@LOPEKJJJHave you seen all the clips of IDF soldiers dancing? You can also find lots of clips of religious Jews dancing.
And you might want to check out the rap music of Orthodox Jewish Nissim Black. He is cool.
Oddly , Reform Jews go long into Presbyterian choral music and white bread folk songs , too.
Must be that opera influence
Most Jews fleeing Eastern Europe from 1880 to 1920 understood immediately what racism meant in America. It meant exactly what they just left. They knew it was wrong and they sympathized, even as they were also glad that for once they were not the target. Bring classified as white - as part of a majority group - was the biggest ironic joke any Eastern European Jew could possibly have experienced. For this reason, American Jews have - until very recently - been the least attached to white identity of any white immigrants. I’m not saying we aren’t attached - everyone offered full citizenship takes that offer - just that we understood immediately that America was confused and thought we were a protected religion instead of a hated ethno nationalist group. And those who were paying close attention understood that Jews could only be part of the “majority” because someone else had taken our usual place as the “minority”.
36:52 that made me cry and I am not even jewish
Very good lecture, speaking of which, somebody was talking about “voluntary migration” recently. Who was that?
Oct 7th 2023 never forget
The Palestinian People have been suffering from zionist terrorists for nearly 100 years !! It's time to give back Palestine to its people
Of course not because it will change the course of history and global politics. I disagree that he thinks Palestinians are unaware of Israelis as refugees. The concept of insane is fundamental part of Muslims faith, however Israeli IdF applying Christian thinking and firming up nationalistic identities (all the things that they resented) is the problem. They are not coming up the “final solution” they want their land back and why should they be apologetic? They have a moral and just ask. If we deny it then we are playing into hierarchy of victimhood. For all the folks listening to lectures here would be great for them to learn the global history in the 1800 of the world to understand that everyone was screwed who wasn’t a Christian European.
Gur doesn't care about October 7th. He still advocates for the Palestinian state.
Brilliant, you just explained my existence to myself.
So perfectly put. We are Israelis and we won’t explain to anyone why we are here. We will never ask for anyone’s permission to be. We are and will always be 🇮🇱
comments like this makes me wanna go back cheering the other side. we are all hurting.
yeah yeah i know. sorry. shalom.
Are the following lectured available?
This came out a few days ago in YT: The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur
@@SuperMCFIVE And I thought that one was great. Wow
@@SuperMCFIVEThanks. These took place a while a go I think. They're spacing them out.
What an excellent, clear and authentic portrayal of the Jewish dilemma !
Imteresting points to understand the importance of refugees in Israeli society
highly appreciated, thank you
So George Washington basically says, don't worry, we're not an ethno-nationalist state, our nation is inclusive of those present in the territory. The irony is not lost on me.
Great talk! Haviv is a natural publioc speaker.
Magisterial presentation. Very erudite! Very complete! Very historical! A MAJOR ACHIEVEMENT! kol ha kavod.Nifla.
What an amazing, deep, enlightening, nuanced history.
But, please, what about this: Some Palestinians and their supporters know full well that Israelis are to a huge degree refugees - and they say: WHY do they have to seek refuge HERE? Why is everyone (including other Middle Eastern countries) asking the people of the Western part of the Mandate for Palestine to "pay the price" for everyone else's destructive behavior by accepting the "refuse" rejected by everybody else?
I will listen to "The Great Misinterpretation" and if I hear something about this, I will return to this comment and add the insight.
Dude, most of the Arabs that call themselves “Palestinians” are not even native to the land. Their forebears came to the Mandate from surrounding countries, such as Egypt, once the British arrived in the 1920s. They’re basically just squatter-terrorists. Or terrorist-squatters.
Please, spar us.
Hey, spawn of Neanderthals.
We migrate.
Get over it
Because it's our ancient homeland, it's the place jews are indigenous to, where we became a nation. There were also non stop Jewish communities there for thousands of years, so the Jews were essentially joining the other Jews that were already there
I think the most honest answer is that they have a point and it wasn’t their job to accept Jewish refugees. But Jews are a Semitic people and TBH the longer Israel exists, the most Semitic Israeli and all Jews worldwide have become. I think you can recognize that the Palestinians experienced a historic injustice and tremendous loss and also that most Jews would never have arrived there unless they were fleeing for their lives. Now both people have experienced dispossession and loss and in theory that can create more understanding rather than more hatred IF they are willing to take seriously the others experience.
I do like these lectures of Haviv and I believe he has some very good insights on both the Palestian and Israeli historical point of view. Especially his lecture on the palestian’s misunderstanding I found to be very insightful. However one point I do take some issue with is his insistence on presenting the Zionist movement as a rescue mission. While I believe that the Jews who went there in the early days and up until at least the 50-60s can be classified as such, what the Israeli project has turned into today cannot be seen in such a generous light. As it exists now, it does clearly present signs of a colonial project and it does actively try to undermine Palestinian existence. I have great sympathy for the Jewish people and understand why they want to have a homeland, but I feel that uncritically conflating the the reasons of the past with the actions of today is intellectually dishonest and primarily serves to wash the consciousness of it’s people. I hope haviv keeps doing these great lectures, I still feel that their core message is still very strong and should be heard by more.
what are the signs of a colonial project? Apartheid? Why does apartheid exist? And what’s your solution to replace it in light of the fact that Hamas have told Jews in no uncertain terms that they’re coming for the lives of Jewish women and children as soon as they have a chance which means as soon as Israel withdraws and allows them to reconstitute themselves. You really need to learn to think through the implications of what you’re saying.
@@le_rayon_vertOn september 8th there were discussions on German TV about sending fighter jets to help patrol Israel's borders ( Germany has a defense treaty with Israel since 1952, for very obvious reasons). The reason why settlers are a problem is that it not only means Israel wants more land ( which it does not need, true victory is the life you build for your children and they turned the desert into gold and created the only democracy in the region) but it creates a legal issue that prevents Israel's allies from protecting Israel. Even if I understand why Israelis think they are alone and have always been alone, I think it a good idea to try to not be alone and prove your enemies wrong and your allies right.
@@kathrinscharrer3923 oh I agree entirely. Israel are doing so much that is wrong, including, as far as I can tell, the settlers etc. But you have to admit there are so few voices at the moment even attempting to give a full accounting of all the pieces of the conflict. And as such, these voices do nothing but contribute to further polarisation and fracture and empower the very hardliners and extremists on both sides who are now effectively in charge.
@@le_rayon_vert I agree with you 100%. As a German living in Spain I had to leave the ( not at all radical) social democratic party because nobody is willing or able to critizise Israeli government without questioning Israel's right to exist. Nobody knows what Farhud of Bagdad is or when it happened, nobody talks about jews in the arab world and so forth.
Sprinkled with cristal clear antisemitism ( " these jews are all....") and holocaust comparisons ( as a German I had to learn that starting a war and getting bombed and occupied and so on is NOT a holocaust, but hey, apparently people can say whatever they want, in Spain that is, not in Germany).
When I asked them where their jews were they said it did not matter because all that was 500 years ago.
The protests are a desaster: one side marching against the state of Israel in this postcolonial fantasy thing that makes everything easy for the left. Pro Israel demonstrations full of Spanish far right leaders who suddenly love jews because they have an agenda against muslim inmigrants. The only worthwile event I attended was a discussion between Ehud Olmert and a former palestinian foreign affairs minister who are touring Europe with a peace plan based on the 2008 peace plan. But most of what surrounds me is a horrible football match that causes me great despair.
@@le_rayon_vert And you are spot on about this " apartheid" nonsense, people refuse to acknowledge that arab israelis exist andvthat they are the same people as palestinians. I have met some, and especially women were very happy to be Israelis.
Glad this appeared in my RUclips.
Brilliant
Mr. Gur, I can explain it in one simple story - the role of the Jews in the American mind. I grew up in New England believing that half of all Americans were Jews. Half of my friends, boyfriends and ancestors were Jewish after all. But a strange dilemma interrupted my peace of mind when I finally encountered a critically important character in history who had not been part of the Anglosphere, and whose name was therefore unknown to me despite an absurdly expensive, expansive education: the Father of Human Rights, the Spaniard Bartolomé de Las Casas. He was a friar who crossed the Atlantic 14 times to persuade the Pope that American Indians were human beings, a profoundly crucial and successful mission with repercussions to this day.
But something was wrong. A person driven to protect these unheard of new people in an unimagined new world unknown to the Greeks or the Hebrews … HAD to have been Jewish, which a friar is not by definition. Yet he had taken on the esoteric and liberal role of a Jew, not a friar, which I found oddly disturbing. The story had to be wrong or all those decades of understanding the world I’d embarked on had disclosed a whopping exception.
There was nothing to do but read past it.
But what a relief to find, some two years later, that Las Casas had come (of course!) from a family of conversos - Jews who had converted to remain in Spain. I could make a private peace with a troublesome episode of history. My world, and the roles various peoples had been chosen to play in it, was allowed to resume its orbit around the sun.
Your worldview was threatened by the possibility that one admirable figure in history might not be Jewish? Very weird comment
To express my approval of Haviv Rettig Gur, I'll have to quote one of the most well-known musical entertainers with the thickest German accent possible who was always fond of saying "ONERFUL, ONERFUL"🙃
This is so beautifully insightful and clear. Haviv at his best.
36:50 that kid's eyebrows rising says it all
A great lecture Haviv. Thank you so much. The second part is really good too
Ya shar koiach. What a great lecture. I hope I get to meet you one day.
Excellent lecture. Thank you from Wyoming.
Got a question: When for example the US Quota Act from 1924 would limit Jewish immigrants to enter the US, would that also apply to let's say a British Jewish family wanting to immigrate from the UK to the US? Or only for the Jews fleeing from Eastern Europe. Thank you. BTW: Thank you for the effort and letting the rest of the world participate in this learning experience. Fantastic lecture. Learned so much. Watched Part 2 ("The Great Misinterpretation") also. Just as good.
It didn’t apply to Western Europe but the vast majority of Jews fleeing persecution were in Eastern Europe.
That is a great lecture! I have learned a lot! And that is coming from an Israeli in the diaspora (Europe) that has written her master thesis on Jewish identity in America . Well done. Will certainly share this
Very gifted teacher…
A light bulb just went on in my head.
All I am is the Jew who does not ask for permission.
Thank you tor this great lecture. I have been wondering about when the Arab pogroms where carried out and how many Jews fled to Israel. The Aliyah changes graph was more comprehensive than the figures i managed to find googling.
A great lecture delivered with passion. History has to be read on a broad scale with unbiased points of views.
I am keen to know books by the lecturer as well as of Rashid Khalidi ,Miko paled
On the whole very very stimulating delivery.
Let us all be kind despite all.I t is most creative period of age .Do your things.
Incredible, powerful lecture. THANK YOU Haviv.
I think he’s absolutely right
No one is absolutely anything, much less being right. Whatever being right means.
There aren't any absolutes in real life.
Where is Part II?
ruclips.net/video/QlK2mfYYm4U/видео.htmlsi=cG6irr0mLfUkb4M9
The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur
As an Israeli who came-to Israel from Wales, U K in 1965. My Husband is an Israeli kibbutznik I really appreciate this lecture. Everyone should come here . We need more young Americans to make Israel stronger.
Today you would have to be religious to come. I know many who tried, it just didn’t work for them. I know people who were talked out of it by their Israeli relatives.
@@GA-sn1hn I am an Israeli and my wife and kids have an American citizenship. After 7.10 she was willing to consider us moving there, but when all the college antisemitism rose, it seemed harder to decide which country if safer for our kids.
Yes, an invaluable lecture on the history of Israel. Thank you
❤❤❤thank you 4that and big 🙏 from Fiji
What a scholar! Thank you!
Completely agree, it’s time to come home and fight for your sanctuary. If I am of age, I would have drafted.
History is important.
We’re the Jews who don’t justify themselves and their existence. I had the same conversation with a reform rabbi…
by starting in 1881 you left out almost 200 years of Sephardic Jewish history in America from Abraham Judah in Rhode Island, Franks and Isaacs in Philadelphia, to Henry Yulee from Morocco to HaLevi in 1698 Delaware. This is primarily a Russian Jewish history, but its very good. Do you think those Jews migrating from Russia would be in America without the well established and historic Sephardic population？
He left that history out because it doesn’t serve his thesis to explain why Americans Jews are so liberal. It ignores the sefardic jews that first settled America and people like Judah P Benjamin who owned slaves and was the number 2 man in the confederacy.
Mel Brooks I think that he meant 200 years not 2000 years?
What Herzl didn't realize is that modernism (or is it capitalism?) will eventually also destroy national identities, not just familial, clannish village, and tribal ones. And now it seems to be destroying even integrated individuals (with the attention economy). National identities seem to be able to be maintained only through common enemies and collective crises.
Both Palestinians and Israelis could benefit from the restoration of these levels of organization. The Palestinians need villages. not a sprawling metropolis. And the Israelis need to rehabilitate their Kibbutzim, but not as socialist enterprises.
What a brilliant speaker. Thank you for your great presentation.
My great grandparents caught the boat to america. I'm glad they did. Not until Prof. Gur's very last gesture, did it occur to me that his lecture took a lot of energy and emotion to deliver. Great lecturer.
So, I already saw the "Palestinians" lecture, and just watched this lecture on the Jews. I suppose Mr. Gur hopes that if enough folks become educated on who the Jews really are, and who the Palestinians really are, and enough of them dispel the falsehoods that they currently believe about themselves and the "Other", that they will be able to settle with each other. It would be good to be educated in a history that's based in fact, not myth, but I'm not sure there is any precedence for that in history bringing peace. What we do have, however, is the fact there are 2M Arabs living peacably inside Israel, and Israel has been recognized by some arab states, and there has been no war with these states since recognition.
So, I can see a certain series of actions ending in a peaceful settlement of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Israel annexes the West Bank and offers citizenship to its Arab inhabitants pending, as it did for Israeli Arabs, successfully completing a probationary period and then pledge allegiance to the state, same as most states require of immigrants.
UNRWA is foreclosed. It's operations taken over by UNHRWA, the UN agency which has handled 200M refugees for planet Earth over the last 74 years, all but for the Palestinians. Now, the Palestinians would be treated same as all other Earthlings. Tbey would be settled. Some, would be repatriated to Israel; they would be screened and given the same opportunity to become citizens as West Bank Arabs. Most, though, would be settled either in their present host countries, or in other countries. It would simply have to be done.
Would there be risks, casualties, for Israel? Yes, but I think the Israeli's would agree it would be worth it, and they would defend, mostly successfully, against saboteurs accepted into Greater Israel.
Do I have a plan for how annexation would be accepted by the world? No. But as Mr. Gur pointed out, Israeli's don't ask for permission.
There would have to be an arrangement, whereby the Al Aqsa Mosque was primarily administered by Islamists, possibly a committee representing several Arab states as well as Israeli Arabs, and the Palestinians newly added into the Israeli state. Maybe something on the order of the Vatican in Rome.
Hateful anti-Israel, and anti-semitic education would not be allowed any longer for Palestinian children. I think we could rely on Mr. Gur, heading a committee of Israeli and Palestinian historans, to come up with school texts that all schools, whether Jewish, Arab, or other would use regarding the history of these Peoples and of Israel and Palestine. It wouldn't sugarcoat or ignore the crimes, pain, or errors of any of the players. But, it would provide context and it would be, as far as possible, based in fact.
I don't think the most influential Arab nations today are so concerned about a Palestinian state. I don't think they believe it's necessary to create that state to resolve the problem, and it's the problem that they want solved, not the state. They are not that keen on the creation of a tiny, deranged, and imperfectly defanged Arab state that will continue to war on Israel when it can. That will be hardly any better, and could be much worse, than the Palestinian situation today. Mostly, they want the problem solved so that it doesn't threaten their interests or their security. They would really rather work with the Israeli's on security, stability and prosperity for the Sunni region
I think this could work.
,
Thank you for that, I have never read the “one state solution” expressed like that.
This lecture was amazing. Wow!
I was moved to tears. 💛
The misunderstanding between Jews and Euro-Americans is profound, and Lawrence Auster has described it in his essay, available online: Jews- archetypal multiculturalists.
Enlightening. Thank you!
He makes many excellent points. But I think his interpretation that "US Jews are afraid because if American liberal democracy fails (using the classic meaning of "liberal democracy" here), it will be terrible for Jews --and everyone." That's partly true, but the other side of the coin is equally valid: many American Jews (and others) are motivated to action by a simple desire for justice for all and the desire to fulfill the still-unmet promise of American liberal democracy. Not fear, but a profound desire to fulfill the dream.
Herzl wrote in his diary at the end of the 19th century that the Jewish goal is to do discret ethnic cleansing in Palestine but discret ethnic cleansing was only short lived. As soon as 1948, ethnic cleansing was practiced in the open. I am just an Asian Catholic American with independent observation.
Here the problem that antisemites like you always miss:
1) Hertz never used the words "ethnic cleansing "
2) a diary is not a political program
3) Hertz died in 1904 , 44 years before Israel existed , so he had no involvement in any actual plan
4) there was no ethnic cleansing in 1948 , you are talking about the fact the Arabs started a war to destroy Israel but they lost the war.
Some Arabs that were involved directly in the conflict were expelled from Israel.
Today there are 2 million Arabs living in Israel as citizen...so much for the "ethnic cleansing "
you: "I am just an Asian Catholic American with independent observation."
And an antisemite despite Jesus was a Jew because His Father so decided.
Next time before spreading lies and hatred read your Bible and see if you are on the "same page" as your God.
@@tatonemio6388☝️ Hasbara fabrications and misinformation
@@MoeMa4
says the demented racist troll
Wow
Haviv Gur is amazing
What sort of connan name is that?