Chinese Diesel Small Engine Dead only 6.6 Hours?
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- Опубликовано: 9 янв 2024
- This video is a very late follow up to the diesel small engine I installed on a log splitter.
The 168f small diesel performed flawlessly for 6.6 hrs.
While starting it in very cold weather with starting fluid I had a catastrophic loss of compression. This video shows what happened.
Unfortunately, I had a significant change in available time to produce video content for almost 2 years. Things are finally getting back to normal.
I have Amazon affiliate links for some products below. You do not get a discount on items purchased through my link, but if you are going to purchase the items anyway, please utilize these links. A very small percentage of your purchase will come to me. This will help me continue video productions.
I am excited to get back to content creation. I hope you enjoy the video.
Using this link 2 different times 1 of each version of engines arrived.
168f Diesel Small Engine- amzn.to/3SjrRN7
Hardline Vibration Hour Meter- amzn.to/3vEe8aQ 
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I've seen a BRAND-NEW 6.5 HP (420 cc???) Honda self-propelled mower engine frag after less than 120 seconds of operation! Con-rod snapped into and knocked a hole in the block! We took it back to the Big-Box store and they gave us another one. I've OWNED an 18 HP Kohler big single (on a rider) that ran less than 30 seconds and blew-up. I owned a 1978 Pontiac Grand Parisian with a PONTIAC 301 CID engine that started TWICE. Anything made by man can be bad from the get-go. Ever hear of the DuPont skyscraper in NYC? It collapsed DURING CONSTRUCTION in 1927. How many engines were tested on "The Spirt of Saint Louis" before they got a good one? NINE. Glenn Curtiss was not happy.
As a diesel mechanic I've seen this before especially/mainly in smaller diesel engines I'm gonna say this was 100% caused by the ether. Since we all know how a diesel runs the fuel injection sets the ignition timing well when you blast starting fluid in there is no set timing it just explodes and explodes very hard and harsh usually way too early on causing extreme detonation and we all know detonation/pre ignition destroys/damages pistons that's your answer. The reason it's more common in smaller diesel engines is there's less space in the cylinder for that ether to explode and smaller diesel engines typically have allot more compression than the big boys (typically 20s vs teens for compression ratios) I never use ether on a smaller displacement diesel and very rarely use it on a larger displacement engine. The right thing to do would be to heat the intake air or the cylinder head if it's cold outside. I would either take the air filter off and put a map gas or propane torch in the intake and slowly turn the engine over with the compression released and govenor control in the shut down position or I would try warming the head up with the torch around the injector/combustion prechamber from the exterior. In my shop I have the pistons from my Massey Ferguson with a 3 cylinder perkins diesel that the previous owner blasted with ether and 2 of the 3 are broken exactly like your piston. The over rev wont damage the ring lands it will mangle up valve train or break a connecting rod before the piston.
Thank you very much for the comment. It looks like valuable information. I hope I did cause the failure. I really expected to find a bent valve as lite as these valve springs are from the over rev. Was kinda surprised that wasn't the issue. I am way more knowledgeable with gas engines. I can see how that area of the piston against the compression ring could be a weak link on a diesel like this, especially with cast piston and not forged. Especially if over pressured by mismatched fuel.
The piston casting looks really dirty when the chunk is. Chinese castings fail frequently on heavy equipment replacement parts. Always buy factory engine and cast parts of you have heavy equipment.
@@richardturk7162 that is true but the pistons that came out of my Massey were also dirty. It definitely could be a bad casting or possibly the carbon build up immediately turned it black as the engine died out and the clean spots are where the broken piece was scraping back and forth as he was turning it over trying to diagnose the compression issue. Its probably a good mixture of both but the fact it died with the ether at 6.6 hours is the icing on the cake who knows maybe it would've gone hundreds of hours as it was if ether was never involved. Atleast we will beable to see what happens in the future now that it's fixed. As much as I wish more stuff was made in the US the Chinese stuff isn't extreme quality but its come along ways in the last 10-20 years from what it was
That engine can't be a marvel for its price but in the late 90s I made a Lombardini LDA450 (1970s version of the 3LD450 sold today) "bounce" before top dead center and start running backwards due to ether preignition, it happened at very low RPM because it was already dying when I applied the starting fluid to it, otherwise I'm sure it would have been its last day.
I was trying to start it with the SAE 40 oil it had since summer and that day was somewhat between -5 and -10 Celsius, the next day I put 15W40 oil on it and never needed starting fluid again.
@@ruben_balea I had a 6ld435 I played with all them time when I was a kid putting it on different lawn tractors to plow snow with and screw around. I never hit that engine with ether even as a kid I knew not to do it. I actually made a intake heater for it to help it start in the cold. I have a Lincoln weldanpower 250 with a perkins 3.109 diesel in it when I got it the injection pump was screwed up and it didn't like to start as I was working on it one time it started then died out then popped back to life backwards blowing smoke out the air filter. Another engine I've messed with that liked to run backwards was a hatz 1 cylinder diesel in a compactor that was crank start and if you didn't crank it fast enough before the compression release kicked off it would fire up backwards
I put a 10 horsepower Chinese diesel with centrifugal clutch on my old Honda 125 drove it for 20,000 plus miles going back and forth to work in the spring and summer for 3 years. Price of fuel now I might have to dig it out of the shed and get it back on the road.
I turned the throttle stop screw in a few turns. I want no part of running a new engine hard. I didn't have to bleed the fuel system. Just wired the decompression lever and pull gentler until the muffler smells of diesel. It likes an aluminum plate to mount. Strictly diesel and 15w40 here, with a fuel filter. Treat it like a $30,000 Cummins and no ether.
I appreciate people who aren't the least bit bashful about accepting responsibility when stuff happen. I get tired of people who's first reaction is to start blaming others. You are a good guy in my book. Best wishes, good luck and thanks for the video !!!
Last trucking company I worked with, expressly forbid Ether in the starting process of the truck diesels in cold weather.
The other thing to check would be if the injector was properly seated, as you an have leakage there, but a bust piston will also do the trick!
Thank you very much for your video series, it's invaluable content! You were the only one who I could find doing it, but not only that: you teached very well!
Thank you!
Helpful and informative video. It has been said that if too much starting fluid is used, it gets in between the piston rings, and will break the rings, perhaps it did that and broke the lands. Also it is believed that starting fluid burns the sharp edge of the compression ring causing a rounded profile, with a reduction of compression over time.
The rings were not broken in this particular circumstance, but yes too much starting fluid is hard on engines for sure.
@@mossycreekvidsI have one of those. Have not used it yet but I noticed the breather on the valve cover does not vent. They forgot to drill it out and add a hose. Looks like yours is the same. Diesels need to get rid of crank pressure.
@chevy6794 look at about 11min mark on this video ruclips.net/video/gcW6YPH-uKc/видео.htmlsi=TVI32pr2C4OsrYJC the crank went is internal to intake runner on the one I have.
@@mossycreekvids ok. Good to know. I might have to double check that on mine? Don’t think it has that hole though? There is two styles one that has a hose to the intake. Maybe wrong cover on the wrong head? Mine is orange but has the injector on the crank case like yours. I also have the red one with the injector on the outer case and the PCV hose on the intake. Want to eventually do a comparison video if I ever have the time. Have watched all your diesel videos before and just subscribed. Thanks.
@chevy6794 I have one with the injector on the cover as well. Mine is red I actually tried ordering the same one I have in the video, but the other showed up. Ordered it not long after I broke this one. One thing I did notice was the one I received with the pump on the back cover. All the bolts I checked were consistently torqued, unlike the one in the video, so I did not disassemble completely. I did a couple quick oil changes on it.
I really enjoyed the disassembly and reassembly videos of that small diesel engine. Have you considered doing similar videos on other small engines? Even cheap Harbor Freight gasoline engines are equally interesting when they’re tore down, measured and explained. I really like your methods of doing things and your thorough instruction.
I sure appreciate the positive feedback. Glad you liked the series. It will be a while before I tackle another full engine teardown as detailed as that. I am actually in the process of renovating a 23 year old mobile home. I will be releasing a video soon of the completed masterbath and what DIYers can make out of an old trailer house. Screw going back in debt. Lol. Next up after that will be a complete reworking of the master bedroom. In that video I plan on getting pretty detailed on the whole project start to finish. I hope it encourages others to take on projects themselves. I am no means a carpenter or contractor, but you don't have to be. Hope you will watch that series as well. Don't worry I will also be throwing in some mechanical videos up to. I need to get my ether engine back up and running.
When large diesel engines manufacturers recommend against using starting fluid due to engine damage, what chance do you think that a single cylinder diesel engine stands? Use a blow dryer set on hot to warm the intake air instead of starting fluid. If it was cold enough to use starting fluid, you fuel was probably already jelly.
A few drops of gasoline in the air intake will get the engine to light without the severe explosion caused by starting fluid. Even a small rag dipped in gasoline and wrung out and put over the air intake will help dramatically in cold weather.
Preach in brother. Ether is a Diesel killer unless there is a manufacturer label saying it is ok to use then dont.
@@time1800 CRC or WD40 with a nozzle in the spray can works almost as well and causes no harm.
Roll up a rag, remove the air cleaner and spray a little ether on the end of the rag then hold it next to the intake. No liquid can get into the motor. I have done this for years. It also lets you run it for a while with the vapor assisting it. You can control it by pulling the rag away. Also, an electric heat gun works much better than a propane torch in the intake as it doesn't burn up the oxygen.
The fact that you even had to use starting fluid tells me a $150 harbor freight predator would be a better fit.
I know its "cool" to use a small diesel engine but I honestly see no benefit in using one of these over a gasoline predator engine. Apparently, double so in a cold climate.
Thanks for the videos and they confirmed what I was thinking. The small predators are cheap and have treated me well........ makes no sense for me to switch anything over just for the cool factor because at the end of the day..... I just need the wood splitter to work.
Those predator engines are well worth their money for sure. About 32f degrees seems to be the break over temp where these little guys don't like starting without help.
Biggest motivation I see for one of these diesels is running it on filtered waste oil, which may be nearly free for some. I still haven't got the math to work in my favor with anything less than a few year ROI on buying one for free fuel.
I loved your other video! ALOT of
People making motorized bicycles, I want to do a diesel bicycle with one of these
Thank you very much, cant wait to get it back on the log spitter.
You will get some serious backlash if you mount one on a bicycle and ride it through a quite park, that's for sure. LOL
Typically expectations verses reality .
This is not new to me, if you had the ability to measure the cylinder pressure you would be shocked to see the peak pressure. Diesel burns slowly compared to gasoline and then either burns much faster than gasoline. The Peak pressure spike can easily do this, have seen this on diesels before and this to me is NDSOS.
I put a 10 horsepower chinese diesel clone yanmar on a wheel horse and I beat the hell out of it but I never had to use starting fluid or warm up the engine with a heat gun or anything it always started right up, even with the battery being low I yank started with the pull start and the compression release and it fires right up in cold weather as well. I've used it for four seasons now and it barely uses any fuel I added a shim to the fuel pump because the timing was a bit advanced for my taste, retarding the timing makes it idle quieter and run smoother at lower rpm.
I just don't understand the fascination with these small diesel engines.
Fuel economy,power, multi fuel ,can sit for months without problems (no carbs)
The attraction for me is the novelty of a compression engine - that they run lean most of the time (no throttle valve) and that they can burn homemade fuel. I'm in it for the education.
Give the new piston a good inspection so we all know if they are of good quality
I will for sure. Unfortunately it is hard to inspect the metallurgy without destructive analysis. I will use my jewelers loop and look for obvious flaws. LOL
I agree that the starting fluid was the final straw but the discoloration suggests a casting flaw . If it was a one time start on starting fluid I don't believe you'd get discoloration , that's usually from previous run time . If it was fresh carbon the starting fluid would wash it out and be shiny . Ive cast Aluminum before and it can be hard to find flaws until machining and when you have a machine pumping them out by the thousands they only inspect maybe one in a hundred .
got a few lawmowers lives extended with Harbor Freight Predators....start easy, run great...!
Diesels have great torque and sip fuel....plus they have long lives if constructed well and maintained properly.
I’m at a loss for why you would use any starting fluid. If a diesel won’t start nearly instantly my first thought is to repair it. I’ve had diesel’s for 20 some years and never given anything a squirt even at -20f.
I guess you have never had to start a detroit or a perkins when cold. LOL!!!
I spent 30+ years as a field diesel service technician, on a no start service call, the first thing i did was look into the cab to see if any empty or full cans of starter fluid, then i knew what was up, engine most likely damaged, or worn out
I have Kubota single cylinder diesel engine. It will start from one turn but only above 40F. If it's below 40F without glow plug you can crank it all day long and it will not start. Yanmar clone will start without glow plug at any temperature.
Nice hat thank you for your service. Good BIW ship.
I was glad to serve, but that was early 90's. The Carney DDG64 is the ship my Daughter is on. She just got back to states after 7.5 months in Red sea area. Proud Dad!
I think the discoloration at the fracture shows previous damage. Ether is not a good thing to use, but it should not destroy a piston. I would ask the vendor to stand behind the product, and supply the replacement at no cost. I would think they should have no problem, and a good company would want the damaged piston back for analysis. At least offer a discount... tom
No liquid should ever enter the intake of a diesel engine, immediate engine damage can result.
Ether should be a vapour if it is squirted while the engine is cranking over...
The oil in the cylinder was for low compression older diesels...the oil sealed the rings raising the compression...making it easier to start.
It was an OEM method with tiny taps built into the head....
Buy a new gasoline engine and change the oil a LOT & you will probably get between 1,500 & 2,000 running hours out of it before it dies. The most important thing with a new small engine is to change the oil after an hour of break in. Watch all the metal that comes out. You can't change the oil too often on an engine with no oil filter. If the metal was no big deal they wouldn't put oil filters on cars & trucks.
I should let you know, is you should NEVER use starter fluid on these extremely small diesels. that is what most likely killed it.
Yep, marking it down to lesson learned!
@@mossycreekvids I currently dealing with a 1959 Onan 3 Kw diesel generator that was ethered by the previous owner. if you must use a starting aid, try WD-40 or engine oil.
If you absolutely need to :
use it after you get the engine spinning on an electric starter..
that way the ether is not concentrated...
it is diluted by the inrush of air....
@@JoshKilen
still you shouldn't use them on these small diesel engines. @@JohnSmith-yv6eq
Piston was already compremised with a crack in the casting and starter flude was enough to detonate out of time to create the pressure to sheer the rest off in the ring lands if it has a glow plug get a system to turn the plug on build up heat in the cylinder then crank it
No glow plugs on this engine.
Starting fluid/ether tends to break diesel pistons in this way.
An upper end lube like sulfur with NO ETHER SPRAY may be great.
Certainly appears to have been a porous casting. It requires a substantial piston to run in a diesel engine.
May have been, but I am sure I did some damage with starting fluid.
Great video! One thing i'm interested in on these smaller engines is how one can optimize them to get a bit more torq and hp out of them, if at all possible.
Would be need to see.
"Piston broke" story of my teenage years !
Mine was transmissions. LOL
Pist'n broke...
YEP@@JohnSmith-yv6eq
Does this not have the rubber plug over the intake to squirt in some motor oil to raise the compression for cold weather starting like a yanmar
No rubber plug
It looks to me that the piston was failing and you supplied the killing blow. Spend some time looking at the new piston to make sure the flaws are not there or are very minor.
have you thought about converting to an electric start
Set fire to a diesel soaked rag after you have taken the air cleaner off..
Hold that flaming rag near the air intake tube and the engine will easily start...
If you really want to go high tech..
install a Thermostart flame intake heater as used in tractors....see YT vids...especially Perkins engines..
You don't need a permanent 12VDC battery on the machine...
just have a motorcycle battery at the machine for the first start of the day...
use a propane torch to warm block up so you don't need to use either
Propane torch right into the intake pipe after you taker off the air cleaner works quickly...
The hot air drawn in makes the engine think it is starting on a summer day....
Look at some YT vids of Pakistani workers starting 80 year old worn out diesels on a 100F day..
flaming diesel soaked rag at the intake pipe and away it goes...
heat makes up for low compression!
yes that works good to if you heat the cylinder walls and oil sump it will crank easier do that with walk behind snow blower went to job site once couldn't hardly pull the rope -30 f few minutes with torch took right off
Oh do you have the link to the tach you have on it? I need one for the diesel i'm buying.
amzn.to/3vEe8aQ
Where did you find parts for these engines. I cannot find a the manufacturer of these engines so I don’t know the origin. Best i can tell they are 212 predator engines modified to be diesels but I’m not sure on that. What have you found? I know the 5hp and 10hp ones are Yanmar clones but these are a whole other beast.
I have found parts through wsepo online. Also, on aliexpress but you have to dig more to fine them.
i've been wondering what h.p. this machine is. i'm not sure on c.c.'s or kw. thanks.
196cc and supposedly 2.2kw. I have seen these advertised anywhere from 3-6hp for same engine and recommended 2800rpm on some and 3800rpm on others. Same looking pictures. LOL So who knows? This manual says 3hp 3000rpm 2.2kw
Can you post a link to the tachometer/ hour meter on there. The tach/hour meters i u=install on my small gas engines run off of the spark plug wire
amzn.to/3vEe8aQ
Here is the link, I have tried cheaper vibration hour meters and it was JUNK. The vibration on hour meters do not measure RPM only time
Speaking of starting challenges, does elevation make starting more difficult? Given a compression ratio of 22:1, it seems like 14.7 psi air (sea level) would get hotter than 12 psi air (where I live). 323 vs 264!
Not sure but it does make since
So do you order your parts from wsepo? If so who did you talk to and how was the experience? I’m trying to decide on ordering the new model of that engine
All email communications, sent exactly what I needed.
You know damn well not to use starting fluid on a diesel engine!
I own a 6.7 powerstroke no way that thing would see starting fluid. But the last diesel I used that was this simple of a design was 1991 in the military. Our 5 ton trucks had a cold weather starting procedure with a built-in ether injection system. Lol. I guess I fell back to old memories and gave this little thing a shot of adrenaline it couldn't handle.
I just got one of these about 2 weeks ago from Amazon. I went thru the first time start up and it went well. It started 3 times in a 2 hour time frame. A week later I tried to start it and it would not start. In fact diesel fuel started to spit out thru the air filter. What would cause this? I messaged the seller and he suggested I clear out the air filter and fuel line with carb cleaner to dry it out and start it again. Same thing happened, fuel spitting out thru the air intake. Second message from the seller was to take it for repair. They would pay up to $30. Any ideas? It's still under the 30 day return policy
Have you figured it out yet.
Hopefully it was just the one piston with a bad casting? Where did you find parts?
www.wsepo.com/collections/168fd-170fd-35hp-diesel-engine-parts. I hope so to about the piston.
@@mossycreekvids thanks
@@chevy6794 @306familyfarm posted much cheaper on ali express and I also found it. a lot of wsepo parts are also on ali express and cheaper than going staight to ali
@@mossycreekvids thank you.
at least it gave you an interesting story to tell
And cheaper than some mistakes over the years. Lol
ali express has parts. 24$ for a piston i had to get a con rod for mine. ran it too hot with too thin oil on a grain auger.
You get a lot of hrs on the engine?
Holly Cow found the piston on ali express way cheaper. Super thanks for the post. That starts making these little engines a little more valuable getting parts at a reasonable price! Top bad I already have mine on the way. LOL
What oil were you using?
Full synthetic after break in?
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq I use rotella t 15w40.
Google says:
Engine oils with SAE Class 15W40 function in the temperature range from -25 °C to +40 °C. In extremely harsh winters it can lead to inadequate lubrication with 15W40 oils
"I bought the expensive Petro Canada E Duron synthetic 0w-40 HDEO and I was glad to have it in the sump this morning. The truck started without any assistance and without being plugged in this morning at -31C. If you're running the diesel in these conditions it's a good feeling having that artic rated oil in the sump. If you ever get north of the border, you can get a 20L pail of E-Duron for around $125. Esso has a similar product (XD-3 0w-40 HDEO) in the same price range. I don't think you can get either of those in the states. I'm sure there's both an Esso and Petro Can outlet just across the bridge from Detriot in Windsor."
The guys who run in Arctic conditions use Arctic oils.
@@mossycreekvids
I found you because of this. Interesting tho.
Cheap pot metal and plastic not hold up to the heat diesel produces? Ether is widely used to get diesels to start. And gas engines too. That piston was defective from factory and I wouldn’t be surprised if the next one isn’t also defective. Why cast iron instead of steel or aluminum?
Piston is cast aluminum
I tell everyone NEVER EVER USE STARTING FLUID! Use Heat! Heat up the intake or block with a good torch or a hair dryer in the intake
A good mod, will be adapting a diesel glow plug if it fits
Not sure I can make that happen
TEMU?
Why wouldn't you check the rings frist.....you juiced it an broke a ring
I am pissed and broke all the time
It out lived the warranty
Sort of like buying a new dirt bike, out the door its yours.
@@mossycreekvids lol
So it would of lasted 10hrs with out using the starting fluid right?😇
Pretty sure!
maybe 2 hours on it….
ether screwed
quality of pistion is poor
This should be covered by warranty surely?
Yeah don’t use starter fluid
Yep. Lol
definitely a casting/metal quality fail
Found the Problem! It says it right on the side….. “ made in China”
Mine broke in half
The piston?
Yea, i dont think you blew it up...that would have happened anyway sooner or later. You just accelerated it.
I dpubt that would jave made it to 100 hours.
Chinese just are not good at casting metal.
Buy a new engine
People with no mechanical experience or expertise, meaning: an MBA, directed that a small gas engine will be converted to run on diesel and spend no money on adequate design. We will deny all warranty claims anyway. It’s no more surprising than putting water in your tank and expecting it to work. 3x compression ratio.
Remember the early 80's Oldsmobile Diesel 350. LOL
Exactly. Too cheap to improve head bolt grade.
chinese diesel engine copied from?
It's pretty damn ignorant to assume everything Chinese is a copy. Chang'e 4, the first (and only) spacecraft ever to land on the far side of the moon, was no copy of _anything!_
Made in China.😂
Buying Chinese dreg engine and expecting Quality 🤣😂😅🤡
Worth a shot. The closest quality is the kd 15-225 kohler for $2400.
I recommend that you check out a few actual tests done and see if ether is all that bad. RUclipsr @KT3406E has a video How Much Ether Does it Take to Kill a 14 Liter Cummins Diesel Engine? Good luck with your channel, I will be here!
As long as the engine is cranking over a small shot of ether gets diluted and enters the cylinder as a fuel vapour...
It's all done in moderation on large lower compression multi cylinder engines.
But a small high compression single cylinder diesel like this with a pull start...not safe....
unless electric start.
The concentration of ether is too high
BANG!