I just remembered I had this video ready to go and with the Elden Ring expansion having just recently released, I figured I should post it [this video was made ages ago]
Elden Ring actually created Stakes of Marika, which are checkpoints usually connected outside of a boss arena, so everytime you die you can choose to go respawn there instead of the last grace you touched (graces are Elden Ring's bonfires). There are only 3 main bosses that don't have stakes and, even then, the run backs are definitely not as bad as any of the Dark Souls ones (except for maybe the Placidusax run back, which is really annoying but you can consistently not get hit there)
My brain just doesn't appreciate overcoming something tough the same way Dark Souls players do. When I finished the first brute chieftan in Halo Infinite, the one by the giant mining laser, I thought "Thank goodness that's over. I never want to do that again." I wasn't proud or felt accomplished, I was glad the frustrating thing was done being frustrating, and I could get back to the gameplay I liked. Some people's brains just don't get that same dopamine rush from beating tough challenges. My brain sees most super-tough challenges as something that gets in the way of the fun I would rather be having. I generally prefer The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, and Skyrim for my fantasy action and exploration dopamine. The wandering around and seeing the beautiful nature scenery, mysterious old ruins and twisted hellscapes. And even though the combat is far more simplistic, I just like the feedback in combat of swinging swords and casting spells. I like games with generous margins for error, where it doesn't severely punish you for making a mistake, and instead lets you learn and turn things around in the same fight. A completely different style of fun for different preferences. And that's fine.
As a busy "adult" who completed Dark Souls for the first time at around age 40, and love the whole franchise, I know you weren't talking to me, so here goes.🙂As with your video, these are just my humble opinions. [Minor edits for clarity and flow.] In some ways I think you got dealt dirty by the wider gaming community and your own expectations about the game. Combat is NOT the main focus. Difficulty is not the point. Dark Souls is just as much about world/level design and exploration as it is about combat and difficulty. "Not enough hours in the day": I am NOT a gifted gamer. Capra took me way more tries than it did for you. I see estimates of "this game will take you X hours" and in my brain just go "X*2" or even 3. And still I don't believe it took me much time to "git gud" at Dark Souls (and I do hate that phrase with a passion. lol), and it was COMPLETELY different from anything I'd ever played. I certainly started having fun almost immediately; long before I got "good", if you can call what I do "good". But if you are trying to complete a game on an arbitrary deadline with expectations that aren't a great fit with reality (including YOUR reality of what you need to get out of a game to feel satisfied), and aren't willing to get some mechanical help in the form of a quick guide or two, or advice from your friend, I could see how you'd have a less than stellar experience. Usually when I'm introducing friends to Dark Souls, I avoid pointing them to WHAT they should do or where they should go unless they're extremely desperate and about to go hollow (Souls slang for "put the game disc through a blender"), as those tend to be the most fun discoveries in a blind playthrough, but I will (if they are OK with it) offer tips on mechanics and soft skills like "roll into attacks, wait 'till they attack, then swing or swig [your Estus]", usually after they've had a go and are asking for a little advice. The boss runbacks, yes, some of them are a bit much in DkS1. Usually when one is WAY too much (like your experience in Lower Burg), it's a sign that you might have missed a shortcut somewhere, which I've long thought of as something Capra is there to teach. Had they put a bonfire right nearby (or let you retry immediately, as lots of games do), I think bosses would feel even MORE like roadblocks that you have to get past. I can't tell you how many times I've been half a dozen of attempts in on a boss that just isn't budging, and thought to myself, "is this even where I should BE right now?" -- that runback gives me time to think, time to process, time to learn the boss fight (my brain tends to process better when I'm doing unrelated things), time to get stronger, and time to re-evaluate my life choices and go do something else for a bit. I would easily burn out if I played Souls games as a boss A, then boss B, then boss C, seeing the beautiful level design as a means to an end rather than the bosses simply unlocking more awesome avenues to explore. It's also a game where a little mechanical knowledge goes a LONG way, and while I fully admit it does a crap job at teaching you that knowledge, my experience in the Souls community is that most people don't just try to muscle through that aspect without getting informed advice, watching a video, or taking a peek at the wiki. *Should* you have to do any of these things? I don't know. Probably not. But it's certainly not the only "classic" game that suffers from this, and damn near every critique in your video could have been favorably addressed with a little bit of game knowledge, and a little less bias going in. To an earlier point, I think the "Dark Souls is so hard" expectation has people go in thinking doing 1-pixel worth of damage to a boss health bar is how it's SUPPOSED to be, so it may be you didn't think anything was WRONG, and that people like this for some reason. (There are a few who do "challenge runs" who get off on this sort of masochism, but most of us do not. Although they can be fun to watch, that's sadism. lol) Would you have liked the game then? Who knows! Dark Souls certainly isn't everyone's cuppa, and that's quite alright. It absolutely isn't perfect, and many of your criticisms have good merits. And you're planning on playing Dark Souls 2? May I ask why? Some people really like it, but I don't think it's controversial that it's the least popular, and many of the things you disliked are even WORSE in DkS2! I'd say just jump straight to Elden Ring, or give Dark Souls 3 a try. There is no real story continuity, aside from a few obscure references, so you're not missing anything important. The combat speeds up, the runbacks get easier, among many other quality of life improvements. Anyway, wherever your adventures may take you, I love the vids!
You absolutely nailed it! I played the game on switch, meaning I could play in little bursts between getting frustrated, and not being forced to smash my head into a brick wall for a continuous hour+ helped a lot. I came in mostly blind to the game, but looking up guides on 'alright what do I even do, weapon wise' when I just couldn't get past the four kings and Mr.Death were a big part in me not giving up. The farming also is definitely key. A lot of my level ups came from me fighting the path enemy's over and over and collecting my souls, or using a ring of sacrifice when they got to like, 2-3 level ups worth.
Well said. My experience is pretty similar, although my introduction was hollow knight. The one thing I would add/emphasize: games offer something for your time and effort. If what DS offers isn’t inherently interesting/compelling for you, it’s unlikely that you will ever enjoy that game. Which, as you said, is okay. I don’t like Tears of the Kingdom. Doesn’t mean it’s not good, its rewards just don’t interest me.
Ok, I am so glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I got like 10 hours in before I just set it down and never picked it up again. But I thought i was the crazy one because everyone loves it so much.
You are not crazy. You just have to realize that leaving the game is part of the process. So, for your own good, pick that game again and start from the beginning. No matter how many years might have passed, the experience of those 10 hours is somewhere in your brain, waiting for you to go back and destroy that boss you had problems with. Believe me. I was where you are now.
@@SystemBDOr just let the man play the games he enjoys and stop doing some 5D chess explanations why dark souls is the best video game ever because you quit it after 10 hours
Because of reverse psychology, followed by peer pressure. "Prepare to die" and all that. They used the same method that was used to make potatoes popular in france. Before they posted guards around the plantations, nobody wanted them (look at demon souls. Had its fans, but it wasn't popular). They were a dull, tasteless vegetable as far as the general population was concerned. It was only when it was all dressed up to seem desirable and exclusive that people were interested. Not saying it's a bad game - potatoes aren't bad either. It's just that anyone saying there isn't a psychological aspect driving it, sorry...I call some BS on that. Also, games journalists can finish it. It has nothing to do with anything but your willingness to drink the coolade xD
There are points in these games where you’ve played too much and it becomes incredibly frustrating. Your brain basically gets fatigued and you become overwhelmed. You have to give yourself breaks and come back to souls games when you’re recharged.
I've rang 2 bells at lv 37 without knowing that estus flask can be upgraded and when i found out, the firekeeper is dead, without further ado, I immediately uninstalled the game. Boss fight mostly easy, the problem is you have no clue where to go, and lack of basic introduction.
I think based on the problems he has with dark souls, bloodborne might be a better option. First off, elden ring is so much longer than bloodborne. Plus, not needing to worry about encumbrance would be helpful. Also, elden ring has an overwhelming number of spells and equipment, while bloodborne is much more streamlined, with less to think about with a clearer emphasis on the different movesets available due to having a fraction of the weapons with only a handful of shared movesets . The straightforward weapon upgrade system is also more accessible.
@@ThroarbinGamingI definitely took a bit to get into souls likes over my friend group. 3 was the first I gave the most attention, though 2 was the first I ever “purchased” it sort of sat on the shelf and I didn’t really go back to it til I had cleared 3. Elden Ring is a much more approachable iteration but that doesn’t take away from the challenge. Since I’m a newer viewer to your content and only being a quarter through this video. I have to agree that I believe Dark Souls would be right up your alley. You appreciate a challenge and learning the attack patterns is already in your nature. That’s pretty much the basics of souls like games, they’re never particularly hard once you see a boss/enemy enough.
What I really love about this game are its lore and World design. The mechanics are a product of their time and the circumstances in which the game was made, leading many of them to be clunky or outdated by today's standards. It's been many years since I first beat the game, but I remember getting so mad at every part of it when I started out, from the camera controls to the long locked-in animations. However, the game really does force you to "get good", not by improving your individual skill necessarily, but by adapting your approach. There's so much to explore, and the interconnected nature of the World means that you can tackle many of the fights with better gear or simply in a different order than the "intended" route. My first playthrough was a pure Dex build with a katana and no armour, which really forced me to learn mechanics such as roll i-frames and parrying. I think you'll find you have a very different experience replaying it with a different build and the knowledge accumulated from a previous play through.
Capra Demon and Bed of Chaos are two of the most hated bosses in the series, even the creator hates BoC and considers it the worst he’s ever made. You mentioned a lot that the slowness of the game bothered you a lot. If you’re willing to give Fromsoft another shot, every game since Bloodborne is was faster than this. I suggest trying out Bloodborne, the creator’s favorite game, first if you want to give this another go.
I would argument that bloodborn and DS3 are not much faster, but much more forgiving. I think the reason for this is the downgrade of protection in those games in favor of mobility. In DS1 you can tank every single boss (belive me. I tried. Several times) and the very fast roll mechanic is quite hidden.
A common story with Dark Souls is to try it, be crushed by some boss (Capra Demon being a good point) and then abandon the game... Just to pick it again months later, choose another class, find out that *the game is not so much about your ability with the sword/magic but about gaining knowledge*, and have a blast with it. Paradoxically, not allowing yourself to give up and restart at a later date might have hindered your enjoyment of the game. Whenever you have the chance, create another character with a different class and see how far your knowledge takes you. You'll be surprised.
I very much agree with this when you take breaks you come back wanting and ready to kill the boss that your stuck on and making new characters and running through parts that used to be hard feels very good
Mines similier I left the game for a couple of months and came back beacause my freind wanted me to give it another try and got hooked after blight town
@@ashton8352 I can sort of agree when I gave Dark souls a second try I blasted through the first two bosses, but it didn't make me enjoy the game because I found the combat boring and thus all getting better at the game did was slightly relieve my stress, I have since fully given up on the game I simply don't like it its a shame but that's simply how it is I would still encourage new players who didn't like the game to give it a second chance I gave it a second chance because I didn't want to be to rash.
Yeah, I played through most of the game just fine on my own, then hit a wall with the 4 kings and left for a few weeks. After I came back, it only took a little bit of time to push through, and I enjoyed the game so much more than I had before I left. Sometimes, you just need to put it down for a bit. The same thing happened to my wife with Elden Ring.
i think there is a point to be said about treating dark souls like an exploration game, when i got into bloodborne that's immediately how i treated it and exploring often shortens routes or leads you to items that can help with bosses, and speaking as someone who had a 9-5 when elden ring dropped i could only sink in an hour or 2 a weekday but i still massively enjoyed that game possible because i had friends at work that i could talk to (and make annoyed by me killing bosses they really struggled with). but from experience if dark souls isn't up your ally other "Souls-likes" will typically be a more fun experience (think the Jedi Fallen Order series)
your friend did a terrible job at guiding you :P I assume he was trying to be hands off by not telling you about mechanics. I loved playing magic since demon's souls and it is easier. your weapons can be upgraded to scale damage with your intelligence (your friend didnt explain). There are many chances to cast spells inbetween attacks. and the boss which you hated because it kills you as soon as you enter was optional (your friend didnt tell you) and during the tutorial you clearly missed some messages because you didnt lock on or know how to roll (your friend didnt tell you) and lastly, running to the boss is player choice, the game tries to encourage you to farm by putting enemies between you and the boss. there is also the multiplayer factor which is huge; I remember early on when i face a new area or boss, I would play as another player's summon and help them as much as i can while also not losing any experience I gained (both knowledge and souls)
Yeah, he wasn't meant to be very hands on, more or less just there to point me to place to place and he would actively try to make sure I fight literally every boss and I had no idea. There were definitely parts where he helped a lot because I would never have figured out how to open certain doors or find certain areas but he also went out of his way to mess with me to.
@@ThroarbinGaming Then I'm still with OP -- your friend did a terrible job at guiding you. Maybe it's what you asked for, so I'm not blaming either one of you. But this type of guidance probably detracted from your experience, rather than adding to it. I made a (much) longer reply about this in a thread of its own, but certainly agree with everything this poster said. Dark Souls is not a boss rush. Speed and challenge runners might make it look like that, because they've optimized it to within an inch of its life, but that's not how the rest of us enjoy it.
You mention never having a window big enough to actually cast a spell... Shortly after a clip where you spend a good ten seconds or so on Quelaag's flank, while she was stuck in a long animation and couldn't attack you back. That was your window. It's all about perspective, and learning to make the opportunity for success. Except the Bed of Chaos. That boss sucks, and that's why it doesn't reset whenever you make progress and die.
My experience was similar I played dark souls 1 for seven to eight hours at absolute most, I was sort of in denial about not liking the game due to how highly praised it is so I kept giving it second chances I've since realised that I should have only given it one second chance at most to make sure I wasn't being to rash.
These criticisms seem fair and right, the boss runs and some other mechanics are ROUGH. But these points are for Dark Souls 1, not the franchise and it’s other games from the creator. Fromsoftware usually learns from the previous entries and the next game is much better. Dark Souls 1 is near the start where a lot of things are not fleshed out.
I often wonder if there’s something wrong with the reward system in my brain but I rarely, if ever feel any sense of accomplishment after beating something hard not only in games but also irl. I never played the actual Dark Souls games but I have friends and even a sibling who’re all obsessed with these games and also Elden Ring, Bloodborne etc, both of which I actually have played at least a little but never got far in either. When I played Bloodborne, I didn’t hate it, I was pressured into giving it a shot by my brother and while the normal combat wasn’t so bad, the moment I bumped into the first boss, I quickly realised that I most likely wouldn’t truly be able to figure out how to beat the damn thing, like normal enemies no big deal, but figuring out even the first boss seemed beyond my skill ceiling. Elden Ring I dropped before I got to the actual first boss, (ignoring the optional tutorial boss that people meme on) simply because the reputation of these games intimidated me. It’s worth stressing that I generally play games on easy and genuinely do suck at most games, hell, I’ve got chronic pain that flares up when I’m stressed or struggling, and so I doubt that I’ll go back. There were many other games I quit for similar reasons and to be frank, I don’t feel like I’m missing out
Thank you for your video, your feelings about Dark Souls are exactly like mine as well. I am in my 30s, I work fulltime, I don't have the time, soul, perseverance or spirit to do the same thing over and over again, without any reward or progress. The same feeling is what made me quit Hades as well. I wanted to love these games so much, but I couldn't. The "skill ceiling" you mention is what I feel very much, "get gud" means more playing when playing isn't fun, and the "sense of achievement" after finishing a boss feel null to me. Surprisingly, Bloodborne works well for me, for being snappy and responsive, and a focus on shooting and dodging. There is nothing of the "slowness" of Dark Souls that you ran into as well. So I think many aspects go into it, and you are not alone. Many thanks, I feel understood and seen too. :]
You've echoed every complaint I've ever had with the Souls games. I absolutely hate them despite being a very avid gamer. I know people adore this franchise but it feels like such a waste of time with its redundancy. I know it all comes down to taste. If I wanted to "get good" at something, I would much rather it be Doom Eternal on Nightmare difficulty.
yea the "run backs" are infamous personally i have never played a dark souls, the only soulslike games i have played was Elden ring plus its DLC, and i enjoyed that cause for the main bosses there would almost always be a bonfire or site of grace as they are called in that game right outside the bosss room, so only rarely would i have to run back to a boss after dying, and even when i did they were not that horrible, what i enjoyed about the game was more of the character building and like which strat i would use, if i were gonna use magic or physical or faith, if it was gonna be bleed or stagger, what kind of weapon like big freaking hammer, to small daggers to swords or scythes that shot out a magic protectile or just spells or incantations, there are so many different possibilities for a "build" in that game, so that was what i really enjoyed and have completed the main game of Elden ring about 7 times now and the DLC once so far
Truthfully it was the world and the building around it. It was the lore and the companions you made along the way. It was the fright of what was behind that boss fog. It was the feeling of dread when walking around a new corner and not knowing what is ahead. It was the feeling of finding something for the first time that helped your build in the game. All of this make the souls like one of my favorite. Sure I don’t get that feeling anymore after 100s of hours but I still remember my first time playing these games and I hold on to that while helping other through there first times.
Honestly, despite what every fanboys will tell you, I really don't think DS1 is the best way to get into souls likes DS3 and Elden Ring are much more polished while DS1 is pure jank Hell, even simpler games could be a great way to get into it, like Star Wars Fallen order or Remnant from the Ashes Anyway, don't sweat it, it's ok to dislike something no matter what these assholes will say Ps: during the voiceovers your mic seems to be peaking quite a lot
I lived in a house with four other people and we all worked regular dayjobs when we got into Dark Souls. Your friend might have had good intent but he did you few favours in getting to love a game that will let you play it wrong a million ways and never tell you.
You should do something like this for Elden Ring or Armoured Core 6! ER was my first Fromsoft game and AC6 was my second. They both completely blew me away. Maybe do AC6 first as a sort of palette cleanser, as it has a more conventionally told story and explains a lot more.
there's four things researchers say people play video games for, and genres perfect for, and focused on each niche; social (MMOs like WoW), problem solving (puzzles like Portal), exploration (RPGs lik Skyrim and Fallout) and mastery (soulslikes like Dark Souls). Most games have these 4 in different amounts or only hit one or 2, how they do that can even depend on your individual playstyle (even Stardew Valley can be played for mastery, it has a vibrant speedrunning community)
I would like to know who those researchers are. Any link or term by which I can search them? Mastery can be applied to the most game genres. Few people may play Dark Souls for mastery, like most other games but not large majority of people. I think most people play video games for- Entertainment Competition ( PvP or overcoming anytype of toughness) Socialising Etc
This is why I enjoy the soulsborne series of games: I like how the combat feels, I like how every movement has to be intentional and methodical. I like how simple it is at the start but how difficult it is to master. I like learning enemy attack patterns and being able to counter them effectively after learning them. Feeling like you are getting better after learning how an enemy works is so satisfying to me. Also I like the setting and the world. I like being able to experience a classic medieval dark fantasy adventure, living through my character on a journey only previously told through storybooks. I like slowly unraveling the complex lore of the world. I love exploring the world, finding shortcuts and finding beautiful locations. I didn't pick this series up until I was 18. I heard that Hollow Knight was quite similar to it, and since Hollow Knight is my favorite game of all time, I absolute had to try it out. And I think it's true. I like Hollow Knight and the souls games for the same reasons. I think one of the main reasons you didn't enjoy the experience was because of you picking mage and not knowing how to actually do a playthrough of a mage. And just in general not knowing and missing some things. (Your "guide" was really no help tbh) It looks like you where doing a lot less damage to enemies than you should have been doing at each stage of progression. Maybe you were investing skill points into the wrong stats? Did you not upgrade your weapons (enough)? Also Dark Souls (the first one) is very slow. But the later games like Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring are much faster paced. Granted, I think that makes those games more difficult. It still uses the same combat system just that everything is faster. Also many of your complaints are shared by hardcore fans of the series. No one likes the Capra Demon's tiny arena, dogs and the run back. No one like the Bed of Chaos. Run backs in the first and second game are notoriously long. But these are all faults of the older games. Fromsoft learned a lot from the first game and didn't repeat most of their mistakes in future games like, Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and especially Elden Ring. (They still keep adding poison swamps though ;-;) (Fun fact, you did miss a whole big area. It's the DLC that comes included with the remastered version of the game. But I don't blame you for missing it because it is very well hidden.) I don't recommend you play Dark Souls 2. It has a lot of the same problems this game has and even some worse ones. I think Bloodborne or Elden Ring would be a better idea. A new IP with some different mechanics seems like the best choice imo.
Dark Souls combat is just quick time events where the game doesn't tell you what buttons to press when. I hated it, no nuance, no strategy, no tactics, no innovation, no consistency. Just do it they way they want you to or die, but they waste your time by not telling you the way they want you to do it. There are so many better games than Dark Souls to spend your time on, it just isn't worth it. I really enjoyed The Surge, similar style game but it respected its players, it had difficulty settings so you could enjoy it no matter how good you were, and more importantly the combat was actually interesting and fun, you had different ways of doing things based on what you wanted to do so it didn't get anywhere near as monotonous and repetitive as Dark Souls, and you could make educated guesses about how to deal with an enemy and it would usually pay off so you didn't have to bash your head against a brick wall until you find out that a particular action inexplicably makes you immune to damage from a particular attack when similar attacks from other enemies would kill you for the same actions. I hear Elden Ring is better, but Dark Souls was such a shit show of a game that I don't think From Software would ever be capable of making something actually enjoyable so I wont be wasting my money on it.
You can separate your personal enjoyment of a game's design vs your critique of the game as a game. As you said, you recognize the merits of the world design, pattern recognition, challenge, it just simply isn't for you. Some mix of the pacing, options given, or expectations didn't add up for you. It's not a bad game, it's just not for you.
I am saddened that the public perception of the community's "face" has become "GIT GUD." I cannot speak for everyone, but the meaning behind these words, to me, has always a form of "harsh encouragement," not meant to mock someone struggling with gameplay (though I have certainly seen it used in bad faith in such ways; I'm speaking broadly here). There's nothing wrong with choosing to get help against bosses. I think it can be really fun, and I say this as an extremely hardcore fan of souls-likes in general, as well as the works of FromSoftware. It's in the game! You should play it how you want to play it! With that said, to your confusion about the difficulty of run-backs to bosses, I at least do not consider the boss itself to be the entirety of its challenge. The difficulty in getting back to fight the boss is also a part of the boss. Everything I do contributes to the resources I have remaining to fight the boss, so every action I take is in some way work toward defeating the boss I'm working on. If I get back to the boss door without enough resources to even feel like I have a decent chance, sometimes I don't even attempt to fight it; I choose to bank my souls, upgrade, and learn the route better. Perhaps I might try to rethink a better route. Would it have been more satisfying if you had discovered the alternate pathway to the Capra Demon yourself? The impression I get is that you would never find it, especially based on your comments about exploration at the end. At its core, the greatest beauty of Dark Souls is in the exploration and the lore of the world. The intricate, tiny details in the game that tell complex stories and require careful observation and consideration to understand are why we are here. It might be strange to say it, but Dark Souls is, in a sense, a "simulation" rather than a game about "combat." The adversity and enemies before you are there because...that's where they are, not because they are trying to explicitly stop you. In many cases, the player character is the arbitrary aggressor, and the enemies are natural parts of the environment that would never act aggressively. There is a profound sadness in discovering this that laces every corner of the world. This is what Dark Souls is about. Consider, for example, the success of VaatiVidya's channel and the Prepare to Cry series. This is the real meat of Dark Souls. While the games are difficult, they are usually not difficult in ways that actually require intense execution; some of the most laudable qualities about them are the ability of even inexperienced or terrible players to eventually find ways to triumph by choosing new strategies or approaches when previous ones failed. Everything is a way to seek power to overcome your obstacle (even summoning allies!) so that, too, should be considered a triumph! I think it's unfortunate that you didn't feel that. I wish you the best in your continued gaming, wherever it takes you.
this is the type of guy who beats dark souls because he thinks "he has to". dude if you do not enjoy the game stop playing. you said you wanted to quit after the first hour. then do it, this game is not for everyone. you either love it or you hate it. no in between
Please dont play Dark Souls 2, Many of the issues you had with the game are much worse in Dark Souls 2 with delays after actions, boss run backs and bosses that swarm you like the Capra Demon. Insted play the Demon Souls remake as it has a larger focus on exploration and bosses similar to Priscilla. The biggest reason Dark Souls players don't like that game as much is because the game dose not focus on combat nearly as much which could be a positive. Or if your looking for something more focused on combat you could play Dark Souls 3 or Elden Ring.Dark Souls 3 is the most refined version of Dark Souls there is, While Elden Ring puts an open world spin on the Dark Souls experience.
I also tend to gravitate to games with quick combat, and also got incredibly frustrated with Dark Souls when I first tried it. One of my friends helped me learn how to play it, teaching me about guarding, timing, where to strike enemies, etc. and I got to a point where I was able to finish my first boss outside the first area. I have not finished DS, but I have played a little of Elden Ring and noticed I had a lot more fun with that one, and learning how to play DS also helped me relearn how to play my favorite game series on the most difficult settings and make it more enjoyable (even though they are a lot easier than any souls game in general).
After I saw a few videos try to diminish the quality of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom by comparing it to Elden Ring, I decided to give it a shot to similarly try and understand why people loved this series. I've gotta say, I'm in total agreement with you in every way. The "difficulty" was never because the game was inherently challenging but because it was unapologetically unfair and tendious. I get that some people can find fun in that, but theres nothing fun about that to me. Every victory brought a sense of relief rather than joy and I felt punished for not looking up guides or tutorials.
you don't need to diminish the quality of TOTK by comparing to Elden ring, TOTK, is the worst zelda ever, BOTW destroyed the license. Both of these game are game that have "Zelda" in them, but are totally an other license.
@Goudlock Your opinion and lack of supporting evidence have been noted. I don't entirely disagree that the games are a serious departure from what I love about Zelda games, but to disregard the quality, care, and unfathomably impressive feat of those games just because its not what you want is intellectually dishonest.
i disagree with this point i actually think that its very fair and not once have a felt that a death was undeserved i have beaten every souls games multiple times with no guides and i have never once felt like a death was unfair it has always been my fault and a opportunity to learn
@samuelcalkins307 In some ways, I got a little ahead of myself. Not every aspect of the game felt unfair, and I did finish the game. So, it's not like I hated everything about it. What I felt was unfair was just how fast many enemies would move, how quickly they could close a gap was insane compared to the limited movement of the player, many attacks were way faster than mine and could combo for way longer, some attacks had insane homing or large areas of effect with no indication of distance from the enemy, and the short and varied delays before many attacks ruined my timing and I would dodge early as a result which I could never adjust to because the delay was different per enemy or even per attack.
@@jonathon422 i was just ranting, but if you want my full opinion : The lack of good music, because yes i have listen to both OST, and, compared to other zelda game, i hate/don't care about almost all of it. (here it's taste). The weapon mechanic and the fact you can get rich really fast and easy make me don't care about almost everything i'm going to loot. (different from all the zelda game) I really hate that they make the story like this, and optional.(different from all the zelda game) Zelda was all about puzzle, even boss fight are in a way puzzle, here it's entierly shift, and focus way more on combat, i don't like that at all. (different from all the zelda game) The shrine : The fact most of "good" puzzle are inside of these tastless shrine that have no personality make me don't want to do or search them. And i say Tastless, because they almost all look the same(different from all the zelda game) Here it's more for TOTK : the fact almost every puzzle can be cheese by the mechanic make them way to simple and easy.. Don't get me wrong, i like to cheese puzzle in game, but not when every puzzle can be cheese (different from all the zelda game) for BOTW : the rain mechanic was stupid, like you just want to advance time because you can't climb. (here it's more like a mechanic you find in open world, so it's just a new mechanic) I don't really like in game the cooking mechanic, and both of these game you pass WAY TO MUCH TIME, in the menue for that, and even then, you pass to much time in menue in general.(different from all the zelda game) One of the biggest reason : the fact you have EVERYTHING at first, that remove the metroidvania mechanic i love in game.(different from all the zelda game) Oh and in BOTW the dungeaon were almost non existant, and they looked exactly the same, at least in TOTK it change, but then again everything can be cheese almost. I writted "(different from all the zelda game)" to show why i said that for me, these are game with the title "zelda" on them, but are not really it.
If you want to try a more souls like game, I would recommend Nine Sols, which works as a mix between Sekiro and Hollow Knight. I'm also very curious now if you'd like the game Rain World, a very unique and challenging game.
I love Dark Souls, but am so completely terrible at the game. I never beat it, but i love the lore. I love how entirely indifferent the world is to you, the player. The level design, the oppressive atmosphere, and the one thought of keep going. Just keep going for as long as you can. But you're right, there are skill caps and mine pretty low. I never got past Ornstein and Smough. Thats as far as my undead could go.
I have he exact same feeling about ds1 as you have. I played until blighttown but then i quit. I loved most of the bosses until that point (except capra demon, i hate him with a passion xD), but i just couldnt run through the same hallway again just to get ambushed by a shitty mob, getting hit off the bridge and having to run all the way back. I have a friend who absolutely loves souls games and didnt have a problem with this, until he played elden ring. after that even he told me that he gets now how frustrating and meaningless that running back is. Since i told him i loved the hard boss fights he told me about the game "furi" and i instantly fell in love. its a boss rush game with hard bosses but virtually no downtime between attempts, no upgrade mechanic where you have to grind and snappy and fast paced gameplay. if you havent played that game i can highly recommend it.
Also what mesmerized me the first ti.e I played it was the combat. It didn't felt like any fighting game, like "press Button to attack" "press button to defend" it felt like I realy had two hands and an infinite set of weapons and moves to choose and use and before even getting to undead burg I was already amazed by the possibilities that the combat system seemed to offer me. Realy feels to me that your "easy mage mode" sabotaged you
my first time playing dark souls was a few months before 2 came out, i got through the tutorial,. explored firelink for like an hour, somehow completely missed the path to the burg, wandered into the graveyard and got slaughtered by skeletons, because this was at the height of the "prepare to die" level marketing i just assumed that was the base difficulty i was meant to be dealing with (plus most games have skeletons as relatively weak early enemies) so i just kept banging my head against the wall till i gave up. didn't try souls again until bloodborne, which i loved and ended up getting the platinum trophy on
Oof. Yeah, I think that marketing actually didn't do the game very many favors. It makes so many people think the game is supposed to be painful 100% of the time. Yeah, all the games have painful moments, but they are also supposed to be fun. That marketing still has people to this day think they have to power through an area too high level for them because they were told that is how the game is supposed to be, and they miss out on the parts of the game they would love
Just wondering if you would ever make a video on Dead space? (Specifically the remake) It's one of my personal favourite games of all time and it's such a great time from beginning to end.
Perseverance is the name of the tango, man. That's why many of us enjoy the game, to overcome unsurmountable odds, and although the issues that you mention are infamous even in the community, they are from the fact that DS 1 is an old ass game, perhaps not that vintage, but still with the quirks of it's predecessor with the long boss runs and slow game style that the most recent games of the company have corrected, perhaps not in DSII, but certainly. And even if the term 'git gud' came from mostly basement dwellers, I truly believe that comes from the fact that everyone has that 'skill ceiling ' and that we can eventually break it, through that perseverance, most are quick to it, some are slower paced, even some to be guided, but that's the perseverance that comes with the game, that everyone can beat Dark Souls, that everyone can overcome unsurmountable odds. Some people love that game because of the massages and the lore, such as myself, those messages that can be interpolated with depression or to live another day through repetition, through tyranny or through ourselves.
I appreciate the mention that “git gud” has come to mean, “overcome your limitations.” Viva La Dirt League has a great video on it in their Dark Souls series.
I felt this way myself honestly, I HATED the runbacks, and at the time the bosses just felt so difficult, so I understand where you're coming from exactly! For me it only just recently clicked, and I'm at the end of my second playthrough of Dark Souls Remastered, I also beat Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order, a newer Soulslike called "Fountains" and now I'm playing through Salt and Sanctuary! For me it's the combat, the ebb and flow of enemies and bosses movesets and learning the openings! The bosses feel like mighty mountains that you must climb and when you achieve victory and see the victory screen it just pokes that little voice in the back of my head saying "you did it"!! At the end of the day, everybody has to realize that this is a video game. You don't NEED to play or beat it. If you're not having fun, just play something you enjoy! It's totally understandable! There's tons of video essays and lore breakdowns if you like the world!
My first and only dark souls (and souls like game) has been dark souls 3, and that's only because i watched the gamegrumps youtube channel in 2015 do their playthrough of it, and it so happens to be one of my favorite playthroughs on their channel. I decided to give it a shot myself some years ago, and basically i've played the game on and off for years now and still havent beat it. Like you, i have a job (a stressful one at that) and definitely don't feel like playing a stressful difficult game in my free time. What i ended up doing was a bunch of research and deciding on a build, and using a walkthrough for the game. I'm the kind of person who hates puzzles and hates figuring things out, I like to know the answer and improve upon the most efficient way to do something. As I replayed the game over and over again I made a little more progress each time and started to enjoy my method. Eventually I fell off of the game and moved onto something else and havent really returned since, but if i got back to where i was and continued I probably would have beat it. Dark souls is really what you make of it, I wouldn't count beating it as the main objective but since you were kind of forced to play it i understand the frustration.
Capra Demon and Bed of Chaos are two of the most hated bosses in the series, even the creator hates BoC and considers it the worst he’s ever made. You mentioned a lot that the slowness of the game bothered you a lot. If you’re willing to give Fromsoft another shot, every game since Bloodborne is was faster than this. I suggest trying out Bloodborne, the creator’s favorite game, first if you want to give this another go. (Also, I know for a fact that your DS2 play through is going to be a nightmare unless you’re doing it purely co-op. It has the slowest combat and some terrible boss run ups.)
Something i wanna say about dark souls 2 is i played it super patiently and did pushups every time as an external motivation (half punishment half reward for dying) i found i enjoyed that game a ton more (after the start because the start is pretty universally agreed to be miserable, since you have to farm ADP a bit) the game is arguably more jank in terms of controls but the game felt like sens fortress to me, just puzzling out traps all the time and playing super cautious was a blast imo
For me, the enjoyment came from learning the enemies (both boss and trash), and the catharsis and joy felt when I finally kill that boss that's been beating me senseless for the past 3 hours (looking at you, Full-Grown Fallingstar Beast). Yes, the games are hard, but only if you attempt to play at your own pace instead of the game's. There's a tempo to combat in every FromSoft game, and you have to learn to flow with it if you want to get anything done.
It's 100% a knowledge and method game more so than a skill game yea. Most of the souls game, if using the right method and knowledge, can be completed incredibly easily skill wise.
I'm not a dark souls hater but i'm a huge mf critic especially of the first half. but i'm with you i adored sens fortress as well, it felt so fun it's my favorite area for sure
For my part, I got into Dark Souls because of the lore. I came to know the game for the same reason everyone did, its difficulty. I am a fan of medieval-fantasy and the setting really caught on to me, it is beautifully woven. I off putted playing this game because of the difficulty, and still today, I really don't like the way pvp/invasions haha. But one day I got it on sale on steam and tried it. At first yes, it was discouraging. But I came to appreciate the way the game's slow pace. I personally really like how I have to learn not only the bosses, but the environment itself to. I took my time with it and traveled at my own pace. I personally like to explore, take in the environment and figure out how to make things efficient. Playing the game with a friend also opens it wide. A pair of hands can really change the experience, even if by technicality, the worlds gets 'harder'. Now a days, I own and played all the Souls series, love them all and play them often. I am not a 'get good' person. I won't even qualify me as a 'great player'. The game still rock my tussles xD It is not a game for everyone, but I know there is ways to enjoy the world of it, there are many great content creators that covers the Lore and quirks of the game. But it is dear to me, and it showed me that giving up, even in the hardest of times, is not worth it. Hope it got a bit of light on a perspective of a casual Dark Souls Player :) Keep up the good content !
It took me a LONG time to get into Souls types, and my relationship is still very hot and cold. I played through DS1 Asylum a decade ago when it was free on XBox gold and didn't touch it for years until I bought 2 and 3 on sale on Steam. Very briefly played, couldn't really make progress, cheated a little to try to find some fun in the mechanics, and left it. Bought Elden Ring for the hype, got mad at the horse guy, refunded, and decided it was time to get good. Finally played through all of DS2, burned out at the end of DS3 and never ended up playing Elden Ring again. But I still get the itch now, sometimes. I recently bought Sekiro on sale, got through the first couple bosses, a number of mini bosses, and then got skill filtered by Genichiro. I'm taking my time with it. I'll probably come back to it eventually, because I yearn for this gameplay. There's nothing like it. When you figure it out, it is what gaming is meant to be. But part of me hates every minute of it.
I love Dark Souls, espicially this game because of its unique and genius leveldesign. I really love the fact that the game is so difficult, so let me explain why. Always dying and running to the boss again IS really frustrating and i dont think that anyone truly enjoys that part, but those bosses bring the most joy when you manage to defeat them. Think about it this way, you manage to defeat a boss after dying over and over, you didnt give up and despite every punch in the gut you got up and tried again. Its this feeling that you know the boss was difficult, not because someone told you so but because you experienced it yourself and still defeated it in the end
To me, the reason why I enjoy souls games and soulslikes is the challenge. I absolutely crave the challenge. Can it be immensely frustrating at times? Yes, absolutely. Sometimes I want to scream and throw my controller out the window. Worst I do is swear, I’m not breaking that $60 controller lmao. The culmination of practice, learning the move sets, exploring the world for rare items and upgrading my gear, leveling up, and finally killing the boss. It’s a sense of accomplishment that I finally did it. I got good. Then it’s onto the next challenge, the next adventure. It’s one of the few games that has true adversity and challenge to it. The closest thing I can compare it to conceptually is the “Doom Dance” in Doom Eternal. You absolutely suck at first, then you slowly learn the mechanics, how to handle each enemy, and you become almost unstoppable. Unstoppable until you get overconfident, then there’s a humility check. Souls games keep you at a constant focus. There’s a place for easy games to turn your brain off and just enjoy, just like there’s a place for souls games. I think souls games are so coveted by fans because a lot of modern games practically hand you the win, and these games present something that you feel like you can work towards and achieve. They give a sense of accomplishment.
Love to see some new people to try out this game. I personally love it and have about 500h in it. I am sorry you didnt like it and i dont mean that as mean as it can sound. I personally wouldnt say it is bad game design but it is more that there are just different people with different preferences and i feel like you didnt like the game speed because you are used to faster games which made you impatient. I love this game for the speed and long walkes to the bosses which let me learn the patterns and timings for different actions and for its open world. I still hope you could lean something from it let it be even that you now know those games arent for you or that you wont play mage again. Either way i hope you have a great day and thanks again for trying out this game 😁
My opinion is that , if it wasn't for the theme/lore of the game and it being so cryptic, causing the spawn of a dozen lore channels, dark souls wouldn't have been nearly as popular What drew me to the game initially was the world, the art, the lore That intro cinematic is quite possibly my favorite, ever. But every time I played the game, it just felt Janky and hallow The gameplay is bordering ps2 level After beating Ds3 I gave Dark Souls a re visit, and even though the gameplay is still sketchy as ever I got to live the lore that I always cherished for some reason There's something hollow about that game that really does give me the creeps lmao
I've expressed my dislike oof from software games too my friends in many occasions, but wihle I usually only talk about what I dislike in the technical aspect of the games, from the bonkers control scheme for mouse and keyboard, the pathetic excuse of a "multiplayer", it being locked to 60 fps (sue me), and overall feeling like a shitty console port (on pc, obviously); the reality is that the games have an awfull balancing and i just dont find it fun when: it takes 100 hits to kill a boss; it takes 3 hits for me to die; taking 1 hit means taking the entire combo (and die). And thats talking only about the bosses, the regular enemies are no better, appearing in (sometimes) huge number, on a game thats has clearly been designed for 1 on 1-3 fights, from everything i know about games and game desing this is clearly an "artificial dificulty", intead of making bosses with harder moves that are an actual threat, the difficulty is trying to not get hit once and only doing something when you are sure its safe, there is no reward for "experimenting", no hitting inbetween attacks, even with fast weapons; Everything leaves you open, even if you hit it, so unless the enemy/boss has a huge recovery time, you are just playing the waiting game, and they keep attacking, meaning more chances of getting hit and just dieing. I've come to the conclusion that i dont like anythig from From software nor anything thats trying to imitate them, I don't like thier game design and what entails. I still try some new and fun looking souls like, but so far, none has stuck with me. The idea seem so cool and it appeals to me, but noone, so far, has executed in a way that i liked.
Great video! I understand your criticisms of the game and think that I can agree at least on some aspects, though I have to admit that I did greatly enjoy the game considerably more than you. Glad to have been able to go through the journey with you and Fury, the person who started us both on this game series.
As someone who loves dark souls, I can tell you, that I didn't finish the first one either. If you're still willing to give it a chance, I would recommend trying Dark souls 3, as the mechanics feel much more fluid, and the combat is slightly more fast paced, which seemed like you would prefer. Dark souls 3 was the first DS game I played, and had zero prior experience with these types of games, but I was still able to complete it in just a few dozen hours, taking it reaaally slowly.
I love dark souls, and I think this was a very good critique. Capra demon and bed of chaos are two of the most hated bosses in the entire series and your frustration with them is very valid. Dark souls is an interesting case when considering audience, it is absolutely a game not friendly for “casual gamers”/adults with little gaming experience, but also I think far too difficult and unfriendly a game for most kids and too slowly paced for teens. If you really are interested in seeing what other people enjoy from dark souls I’d recommend watching one of the many “dark souls saved me” video essays on RUclips. I think you’ll find often that audience are young adults in college or just being to work full time jobs and feeling lost in life or facing some other struggle. Something about that audience I think really can connect with the game. (That’s not to say there’s not working adults who have gotten into and enjoy it, but I don’t think first time adult gamers is the game’s intended audience)
Your moment to moment experience is nigh-on identical to mine, and I _do_ love Dark Souls, so why…as you ask? Lordran is this inscrutable, nebulous monster of a challenge that will _never_ present what you expected. It demands of you skills you’ve never needed as a gamer. It will beat you down, spit on you, and laugh. But it’s not as enigmatic as it presents itself… you _can_ uncover its mysteries, discover its mechanics, wisen to its tricks. When you master dark souls, you utterly _own_ it. If each step on that journey is of your own volition, the feeling of accomplishment is nigh unrivaled in gaming.
I love Dark Souls, but this one is the only one I've beaten. I guess I'm like ok at the game, not gooood, but I still love it. I think that while I nearly got tired several times, I managed to like it despite all that annoying stuff because I just enjoyed the gameplay enough to make up for nearly all its shortcomings.
I'm a huge souls fan and yes the run back has always sucked, yes the capra demon fight and the bed of chaos fights are poorly designed, you are entirely fair in these opinions. I will tell you what I think you are missing, it's not that you need to get good you just lack the appropriate amount of masochism, we enjoy the pain, the struggle, and the sadness. We revel in the struggle and the fight almost more so then the victory. Dark souls helped me through tough times in my life because our real life struggles will never be as hopeless and meaningless in real life as they are in the game, because we can change things in real life but in dark souls, we are truly doomed, no matter how we struggle the quests we do or the people we save it all ends the same and I at least enjoy that struggle regardless of the futility of it all.
I played through DS1 after playing Elden Ring and Sekiro and I personally was pretty underwhelmed. I think for its time the game is great but the newer fromsoft installments have improved on it in many quality of life ways that show how needlessly tedious the original can be. The constant boss runbacks, attacks bouncing off walls, no fast travel for the first half, clunkier movement, enemy spam in tight corridors, and gimmicky bosses were many of the frustrating elements that the game forced me to get used to before I could start to enjoy it. On top of that there are other bigger and smaller issues like the systems kind of just being weird (upgrading, durability, hollow form, covenants and bonfire kindling) or weaker areas of the second half. I will say once I got acclimated (maybe half way throughish) I did start to enjoy it more and I thought all the content of the DLC was pretty good. It's a shame the game had to end with Gwyn who was a pretty bad boss fight though considering how good the dlc bosses were right before him. Also I absolutely hated capra demon and had a similar experience to you.
Ok, so... the mage class is easy mode IF you already have some idea of how the times and hit boxes of the game works. Also once you discover that locking your camera is kind of a trap the game gets a lot more easy
I really get where you are coming from, because a good chunk of me really also hated the game early on and still get very, very salty playing every installment up to elden ring. I continued to play it out of spite, and suddenly was stockholm syndromed my way into enjoying them. Still, sometimes you really have to take some breaks and pauses, because they can make you incredibly salty. And I get the "having enough time to play it" point, because if I wasn't on vacation, with lots of free time when I first picked up soulsborne, I really don't know if I would have really been sequestred by it like I was. Having put the time though, and once you got the "hang" of it , even if you are not the 0.1% of pro-players of folks that enojy even doing challange runs for a living, there are parts of the game that really can hook you up. I really enjoy the level design, the bosses themselves and the world that you play in. And that all being said though, I get where you come from in the sense of making the mistake of picking sorcerer as the first class. I firmly belive that magic is "easy" for you if you already know the game, for a second of third playthrough, so you know which stats to invest, what items to get and where to get the stronger spells. For a first or second run, I really recommend being a turtle with a halberd (that you can get early on) to poke, you can withstand much more damage from the bosses, learn their patters to dodge, and give reliable damage constantly without counting on the limited spells and so forth. Once you know more of the game, where to get the stronger spells and so forth though, picking magic user really feels different, beign able even to one-shot some bosses, it is an "easy" mode for those that aleady are familiar with the game in general. That being said though, if the game made you hate it and not wanting to continue, there is no reason to scourge yourself through it again, but maybe some other time your mood may change and you can give it another shot, or give the other entries a chance as well, perhaps some of the others might be more of your cup of tea (for instance, DS1 is the only one I really HATE entire areas like blightown and tomb of the giants), and elden ring, despite having much more aggressive and difficult bosses, have more tools for you to practice and learn the game, from spirit ashes to stakes of marika (that act like bonfires before the bosses so you don't waste time on the runbacks).
As a "ok" DS1 player I really think that the lack of time was the issue. DS1 gets easier, the more you experiment and explore. There is no challenge if you combine all aviable options. I honestly think that good players have a bad influence on newcomers. Furthermore I agree with the statement, that DS1 is more of an adventure game or even a metroidvenia. I would not recommend anyone to speedrun a soulslike game. That you didn´t find the shortcut to the capra demon yourself speaks volumes about how linear you approach this style of games. The "how long to beat" website tells a average of about 60h for a first and full playthrough. I was not the best player and back then it took me more than 70h over like half a year
Generally speaking there are three types of fun: 1. Fun in the moment and in retrospect. 2. Not Fun while in the moment but Fun in retrospect 3. Not Fun in the moment nor in retrospect. I always assumed Dark Souls to be the third.
From what I hear,Sekiro could suite your combat style more and is definetly faster than the other souls-likes. But it is by most people seen as the hardest souls-like there is,so idk of it would be so great
I'm with you with all your points, yes I love the soul series I have played multiple 1000 of hours in the different games, but all you say is true. When there released the DS1 remake, I was hyped to be able to play it on my pc. I bought it, played it and finished it once and then never batted it up again. Since DS1, Souls Games (including Elden Rind/Bloodborne) have changed drastically. It's not that the old games were bad games, but more that there are bad games today because of how gaming has changed. I think anyone that's wants to try out Souls games should go with the newest release from From Software. I hope that this bad experience isn't stopping you from checking out the newer games. The beauty this game had when it released was, that it was a game that wasn't holding your hand. There were games in that time, that would ask if you want to automatically finish a level because you died 4 or 5 times. The feeling of really accomplishing something because you struggled and at one point succeeded was not there in other games. Since then, gaming has found a good middle ground that didn't exist back then. With that change in games, the soul games have changed and are amazing games because of the love that gets put into it. Not just being a cash grab for the company, but something there can be proud of. i would never recommend someone starting with DS1 its old its clunky and unpolished. Sadly you got put into that game, because of a freinds nostalgia, i think you should just pick up elden ring or DS3 never touch DS1 or even DS2. And dont listen to this git gud people.
I want to enjoy this genre. Everything about it from the dark fantasy setting to the combat is appealing to me. And that's why I HATE the soulslike genre! I'm a casual gamer and I want to enjoy my games. NOT get pissed off and frustrated at every single corner because of the set difficulty! I want more games like this, but NOT hard games! Why is that such an impossible task?
I would honestly suggest Elden Ring. That is the most accessible Fromsoft game it my opinion. You have access to stealth, ranged combat is way more useful, there are more weapons, really good combat spells, and some really powerful builds, as well as Spirit summons to help out. Also the coop scene is still fairly active, so jolly cooperation is often available for a roadblock. The game is still difficult, so it still may not be for you, but my non-gamer wife learned it despite having a full-time job and only having Stardew Valley as experience. Yes, it can be frustrating at times, but it can also be incredibly fun to explore the world, read the little lore blurbs on items, and overcome challenges by knowledge and tactics. Elden Ring especially tries to teach you early on with the Tree Sentinel and Margit that if a boss is too hard right now, go explore the map to get stronger and find better gear.
I have like, almost four hundred hours poured into this game, and over one hundred in two, three, elden ring, and at least three hundred in prepare to die edition
i really understand your opinion on the game. ive played Elden ring and dark souls i really hate some of the dark souls mechanics, butelden ring is a whole different game, its more forgiving, more accesable, has cooler weapons and you can level up as much as you want due to its open world before taking on the har dbosses, and there are almost no runbacks. Dark souls is good if you want to git gud or suffer, and can be fun, but its really a dick. i hope you dont get discouraged from trying games like this, becaouse many souls games can be really fun, even on a more casual basis level. And ignore those dumb "git gud" people. I like getting good at bosses, but most dark souls 1 bosses are really jank and at least im not gatekeeping p´layers from having fun. Id be really interested in seeing you play Elden ring.
Magic can trivialize Dark souls, but for that to be the case you need to know what you are doing. And i do not mean putting hours into the game and "git gud", i mean knowing how scaling works, what rings work(i.e. bellowing dragoncrest ring) or knowing that, although it is a miracle power within is very useful whatever your build is. But that also implies knowing how to get it so not really feasible on the first playthrough without someone telling you, or you having combed through blight town which every noobie hate with a passion. Same thing with weapon infusion(making your weapon scale with your preferred stat), or the fact that dusk crown boost all spell/miracle dmg, not even considering that the spells which can trivialize the game are very few, mainly dark bead in the dlc or the spells big hat logan gives you at the end of his quest(again not feasible without someone telling you how to). Imo you would have had a better time getting the sweihander that is next to the skeletons just below firelink or any other melee weapon. You would have had to git gud(not like you didn't have to using magic), but that does not mean having great reflexes or great skills, it means use your head, do not give in to frustration, learning how to dodge takes precedence over dealing damage in boss fights(beside capra demon or bed of chaos) and worst case scenario wear the heaviest armor you have and poise trade through the game. The low damage would not have been a problem with just a single weapon to upgrade, with normal titanite, without having to worry about magic infusion, which also brings split dmg to the table, which is another mess. TLDR the person that told you that magic makes the game easier either did not know you were a noob or they didn't know what they're talking about That being said, nobody likes boss runs, especially the bed of chaos' one. And while it is kind of obvious that DS is not for everyone, i do not believe you need great skills or time investment to make it not that frustrating. You just need to learn the many secret handshakes of fromsoftware, and tbf i believe you did learn them and if you ever come back to it you'll have a better time, and by a lot. Now good luck with ds2(i assume you have the "scholar of the first sin" edition). I bet my left nut you'll enjoy that gank fest even less, go play one of the good ones mate, be it bloodborne, ds3, sekiro or elden ring, but if you are already struggling liking the game, ds2 is the worst choice you can make imo.
10:23 Were you? Because this 10:10 "live reaction to that information" doesn't feel like a fury to me. You are happy and giddily shit talking the boss you just beat while peaking the mic.
I am a soulslike fan but I understand what you mean. First of all I am sorry to hear that some soulslike fans were a bit rude when you exposed your thoughts, this is not how our community usually acts; Dark Souls 1 is very criticised in the community because it is upright unfair in many situations, for example, it is stated that the arena of the Capra Demon is too tight and his dogs create a problem that goes way beyond challenge, in New Londo there is a room where the ghosts group on you from all directions making it impossible to dodge or defend all of them for they attack at once, the bonfires are indeed too far from the bosses in many times, the game has a slow combat wich is part of Dark Souls' identity but the control's response indeed aged poorly and I personally had a problem with some bosses where I dodged the attack, it landed in other place, and I still got damage from it regardless, in Dark Souls 1 I often feel like the game cheated on me. Fromsoftware admited these problems and improved in these areas in the next games to make them challenging but not unfair, my introduction to soulslike games was Dark Souls 3 and I can tell you almost all of these issues were solved by that point, the game is very hard but it doesn't cheat. If my first Soulslike game was Dark Souls 1 I would possibly have a very simmilar impression to your. About other issues you mentioned, the story is told by the item descriptions, it is fragmented through them, a soulslike tradition, so you have to gather the fragments of intel and mount the puzzle of the lore; it is more than ok to not enjoy it but for me at least it gives what I can only explain as "thrill of the investigation", joining the pieces of lore and having to think how they fit with each other to assemble the puzzle is like a side quest that at least I like very much, but there are many videos explaining it if you don't. On the exploration, it is one of the main things in the game, opening all the doors, going all the paths you find, "sticking your nose where you were not invited" is the core of soulslike gameplay and ambience, for it helps you with the roleplay of being a "chosen" undead having to fight your way in a land you've never been before in search of accomplishing your mission, it gives a sense of adventure and a fear of going somewhere not knowing what dangers await you there, this can be applied to all soulslike games. About dealing so little damage to the bosses, it is because of your class, I dealt three to four times more damage to many of those bosses as a knight who leveled up my strenght a lot and also it is important to go to the blacksmith and upgrade your weapons with Titanite you farm from enemies or buy. Finally about the sense of accomplishment, I still felt a lot of it in Dark Souls 1 maybe precisely because having other soulslike games to compare it - specially Dark Souls 3 - I knew that this game was not hard, it was just ridiculous of unfair, and when even though the game shown me the middle finger and cheated all the way through I still grabbed the bull by the horns and beat the final boss and finished the game I felt even more empowered. If you give Dark Souls 3 a chance or Bloodborne - wich has a faster paced combat wich you mentioned you enjoy - I think you might change a bit your mind about hard soulslike games.
Your criticisms of the long ass run backs for bosses are 100% true and almost every SoulsBorne fan would agree with that. Also your criticism about The Bed of Chaos is also 100% fair and everyone would agree Bed of Chaos is THE if not one of the worst boss fights in SoulsBorne history hell even video game history. To answer your question why people love Dark Souls so much and why it started it's whole own genre that has become such a massive phenomenon... there was just absolutely nothing like it in 2011. The way the world inter connects and flows so amazingly makes it so fun to explore and discover and is done in such a way that had never really been seen before the way that every area links back to Firelink Shrine is just masterful game and level design I think anyone can see that even someone who hates the game. The other reason Dark Souls took off from my point of view is clearly the boss fights. I'm sorry but after playing every Souls game I've come to the realization that boss fights in other games just suck in comparison. Dark Souls redefined how to design a boss fight even some of the 'worst' fights makes boss fights in other games look like nothing and simple in comparison even as early as Dark Souls 1 the 2nd ever SoulsBorne game and the fights just get better and better over time as FromSoft perfect the boss fight formula. But the level design is what makes Dark Souls specifically unique though. All that being said you don't have to like everything that everyone else does we all have different tastes and that's okay if everyone agreed on everything and liked the same things life would be pretty boring. Great video!
I typically recommend newbies start with DS3, though, elden ring is generally the easiest souls game. From what it sounds like, and what I saw, you need to adapt to the souls play style, it takes time, and patience. It also looked like you may’ve spec’d your class poorly, it may’ve been better to lean harder to sorceries, or towards a knight build, trying to balance them can be really tricky, and I’d recommend it for a second or third play through. Also, it looked like you stuck with the basic sorceries, I would hope you got the higher tier spells, they help a lot. It is tempting to just say git gud, but I know that can be tiring to hear. My first playthrough of a souls game took me 120hrs, and a few months. It’s never easy for anyone their first time around, or even their second. I’ve played and beaten most of the souls games multiple times, it gets easier with experience. The boss runs are grueling, the later games aren’t nearly as bad there. For me, a lot of the enjoyment comes from seeing that I can overcome incredible challenges, and have a clear measure of my progress, seeing my skill go up. The bosses feel easier, but, if you slip up, they will remind you what game you are playing, and humble you quickly. I’d encourage you to try another souls game, try DS3, or if you want a very different feel, try elden ring. Take your time, and know patience is often the best weapon. I would also personally recommend skipping out on the summons. It doesn’t feel the same, beating a boss you’ve struggled with, dying a dozen times or more, when you summon in help, for me, it feels, Hollow. Regardless, good luck, and hope to see you try out, and enjoy, another souls game.
Dark Souls is a rock solid foundation with a somewhat shaky final build. I don't think you did yourself any favours picking a starting class that didn't work for your playstyle, and it doesn't do new players any favours by being as punishing as it is. There's a point at which all the mechanics finally click into place, whether it be the bosses movepool or the statistics, and this is where most souls fans derive their pleasure. Is about running into that brick wall and realising a hammer is better than a saw, not necessarily getting through the wall with a butt er knife. I love the concept of Dark Souls more than I love the game itself, but I do still consider it a flawed masterpiece, and if you give in and play by its very precise rules, it can be a very rewarding experience. For me, the peak of the series is still Bloodbourne. Its a lot more snappy and leans a lot more into my play style than Dark Souls does. I still need to play Sekiro, but it's a Fromsoft game. I need to find a suitable month to dedicate to it. From the footage and your commentary, I think these might be more up your street. Same punishment, different tools to overcome it
I would've recommended Dark Souls 2, mechanically, it's the most polished form of Dark Souls 1 gameplay. Because DS3 is basically Bloodborne with a dark souls sticker on top and Dark Souls is... woof, oh boy, it's showing it's age as both it being as old as it is and being the second in its series.
I'm sure a lot of people in the souls community would crucify me for even thinking something along like this, but at this point I really feel like Dark Souls 1 is probably one of the worst entry points for anyone new to the series. I wouldn't necessarily say any of the others are easier, but I feel like every other souls game besides Demon's Souls is at least more approachable.
Demon Souls Remake would be my recommendation as a starting point, but it's obviously subjective. The bosses don't exactly exist in comparison to each other in that game. With challenging video games, the "GIT GUD crowd" should consider a comparison to Sports... or Call of Duty Pro-level Competitive Gameplay. To properly enjoy yourself and continue to improve, the path to becoming a pro requires a lot of patience. You must be met with the appropriate level of challenge. You might improve "faster" by facing extremely tough opponents, but you will be demoralized to the point where you simply don't play anymore. FromSoft titles have "good" difficulty pacing, but not "perfect." When it comes to build variety, it's all over the place.
Your criticisms are fair and justified but i believe these frustrations come from playing the first Dark Souls lol. This game is OLD and was kinda made without the guidelines later games were made with (yeah demon souls came first but that game has... issues.) You mentioned not having too much trouble with Sen's Fortress which gives me the impression that its necessarily just that you're having trouble with the games difficulty. Sen's Fortress beat me to a pulp even after I had beaten Elden Ring, and I still haven't beaten Dark Souls 1. I don’t want you to walk away from this game misunderstanding Souls-likes, so I beg you, play Elden Ring. It's a much bigger game yes, but I think you'll enjoy it a lot more. There's wayyy more exploration aspect and a lot of the time if you're hung up on a challenge, you can always go somewhere else to gain resources or get stronger. On top of that, the "Boss Runs" (run backs to the boss after dying that you justifiably complained about) are super toned down. Most boss fights have a psuedo checkpoint outside them, and I think overall the bosses are better designed. The game will still be extremely difficult, but its a better example of Souls-difficulty that people enjoyed and what caused people to love the genre as much as they have. It's not the unfair difficulty that turned you off of the first game, it's a challenge that actually feels highly rewarding and will give you the means necessary to practice and overcome said challenge.
@@endersparshott from everything I've seen, it just seems like it would feel clunky. And I know myself well enough that I get unreasonable angry if I feel a death wasn't my fault... so why put myself through it? DS3 was hard enough.
Knowledge is power. It's kinda like fighting games, it's very niche, but frames, timings and little mechanics like that are vastly more important here than other games. Git gud is one thing (I'm not very dextrous or have agile fingers) but knowing how stuff works is perhaps more important.
I think you might enjoy Sekiro, given it has a lot less runback before bosses (usually like a minute or two max) and is a lot more fast paced and snappy, as you put it. Elden Ring also fixes many of your frustrations, but it was still a bit slow for my taste.
Some people really enjoy the challenge, or just dropping their balls into a meat grinder. It's not for everybody, and that's okay. I came into Elden Ring from Monster Hunter, never touched a souls game before, and it is beating my entire ass inverted, but I keep coming back every few days because 1) kinda hate myself a little bit, and 2) I hate that runebear that came outta nowhere and wrecked me more, so now I gotta keep going until I can kill it But for real, might be worth giving monster hunter a try, the combat is still the slower combat style, but it's... faster? more responsive? It's kinda unfair to compare the games beyond that, but it can give you that sense of accomplishment of beating a difficult enemy without all the slogging through minions
i have been writing and re-writing this comment a lot. i wanted to give a lot of pointers and express my opinions on a lot of things that i think soured your experience a lot. that being said i realised i can do something better. i can try to give you an opinion on why souls games took off, because i realise that yes, from an outside perpective that seems insane. i will also try to be as succint as possible, pardon me if if i fail. dark souls is in my opinion an exploration game. and not just of the map. the fun is in trying new weapons, learning how the stats affect your controls, and figuring ways not to beat a speciffic boss, but to make your battles overall easier. experimenting with the game, as you would with a sandbox is kind if the fun. of course, the game itself doesn't really make you want to do that. it is punishing in a way that scares people off from trying new things. case and point, you being stuck as a mage. there's a lot of rewarding secrets that you can find by goofing around in the game, taking it slow and enjoying your ride through. also, finding ways to skip long walks or to cheese bosses is very cathartic. it also helps with combat to be a bit more slow and methodical. i too enjoy fast paced responsive combat, but getting in the flow with this more slow zen-like combat is fun in a way i cannot really explain. but i think the most important thing is, like you said, time. you were rushing trough it, worried that you need to put out a video on it. always frustrated that you didn't make much progress, forcing yourself to bang your head agains a wall until the wall gave in, instead of finding a way around it. and i will admit, the first game is rough around the edges and requires some head-wall banging, but i think having the responsability to show progress did make your experience worse. this game isn't really meant to be played and finished, but more...experienced. you have to be in the right headspace for it. and for some people, that is a lightining in a bottle type of deal. but a lot of people persevered, tried again and again, had that momment where it all clicks and got addicted to this formula. there's also the artistic appeal to the game. it's lore, although hard to absorb due to vague and hard to find crumbs of information, is quite addicting, tragically beautifull and i think most importantly, woven completly into the base concepts of the game. its is a game and story about hope. giving up or persevering. harship. pain, and dealing with it. in the end, i think my ramblings might not convey the beauty of this old rough and messy game as much as the latter, more pollished entries in the franchise might, but the truth is, dark souls isn't for everyone. it is a plot point even in game, how the undead eventually go hollow. you giving up on the game would have been a fine way to finish it. not as an undead who rekindled the flame, but one who didn't see the point and decided to forgo the pointless journey and just go hollow. git good has become a mean meme, but it's the best advice for this game. there's no secret to beating it and enjoying it. you just have to try again and get better. not necesarly through skill, but through knowladge. and while i don't think having to pull up a wiki is good game design, there's no shame in looking up things online when the game gets too tough. i kinda believe playing dark souls 2 will make you think i'm insane for saying things like this, since that game can be even more frustrating at times, but i hope you persevere in spite of that. there's no guarantee you'll ever enjoy dark souls. but if you give up on playing, then it's a guarantee you never will.
It's weird to me that a game taking time means that the game isn't good. This is a game aboit taking it slow and looking around and thinking, it is not a quick game and everyone knows that before getting into it at this point. If that isnt your kind of game then fine, but the long boss run-backs lend a massive amount to the atmosphere and they're there to give you moments of reflection, to help you learn the levels, to give you time to consider alternative strategies for the boss. The very fact you called it mindless shows how it clearly isnt for you. Your first DS1 playthrough should be slow, it should take like 100+ hours to really enjoy it. If you really take your time and travel the land you find that most bosses have an abusable weakness, you find other places to explore etc. The long breaks in the game are a part of what makes the game so brilliantly designed. It's just a shame that people who dont havr enough time to play the game properly try playing the game and saying it's bad when it just isnt a game for them. 4 hours a week just is nowhere near right for this. Not every game is for everyone and Dark Souls is very niche. It was never meant for a mass market audience that cant dedicate time to it. It's a hardcore JRPG for lords sake 😂
Not surprised you hated the experience, it's a try hard's wet dream, a challenge lovers fantasy, and generally okay for people who run the middle ground. But sadly casual's will suffer because it requires a lot of dedication, memorization, and deep minmaxing. Not a bad thing per-say, just bad for your breed of gamer, and for the record there's nothing wrong with being a casual, we sweaty types might be 'better' at some games, but we're also uptight jackassses that can't relax and just have fun loosing
Ugh, as a tryhard it sometimes fucking sucks. I remember playing a tower defense game where you had 50 lives and the game was balanced around it. I saw it as a failure if I got hit once. Took me ages to complete the game. Fun because I felt achieved but holy shit, also often frustrating. I wish I could see 49/50 and go "good enough". The attitude sucks for a lot of games honestly but for Dark Souls it's bloody perfect. I completed Dark Souls once by only using ripostes where possible. Lot of fun.
Idk dude, everyone thinks about and experiences the game a little differently. There are tons of casual souls players out there. Most of us are just a little quieter in the community.
Sooo I was a teenager when DS came out.. but many of the at the time critical and glowing praise came from press who I assume were older then me. then again gaming press has the job of playing games soo they probably have more time to dig into it then i did. but when these games are **new** I mean like new new.. the "git gud" attitude held less weight. fuckin you didn't even mention him but the most memorable bit from the early dark souls 1 hype was solair, the guy that gives you the item to summon help and his saying of "jolly cooperation" a core game mechanic is leaving hints for other people, hell even if the online is dead a lot bosses have npc allies baked in that you can find to help you. **especially as a caster** because they can take the heat off. in fact the spider lady you were showing footage of when you were mentioning bosses that don't give you room to breathe has one. some people mention difficulty settings and the fans who don't just resort to saying "get gud" will instead say you can .... change what part of the game is difficult. that's what being a spellcaster is about. some enemies have pathing or gaps you can exploit as a caster. others have patterns you can learn to roll as a meelee and wail on their backsides for a while.. and you could always summon someone to help you. the invisible walls and secrets were like another thing that made going to the wiki or reddit and finding guides part of the experience. fucks sake you need a guide to access the DLC chapter in this game because it's hidden behind killing an enemy in the forest, meeting an npc, then killing an enemy in the archives for an item that you bring back to this little empty alcove in the forest. there was a lot more helping each other as the focus. this was also the heyday of full let's play video series on youtube. soo people were watching each other play through the game along side them. using videos to learn about builds, where to find weapons, figuring out the lore how to get the other ending. annnd the exploration was also a part of it.. often getting walled by the first hit of a boss and leaving ment you could stumble on a shortcut or new area or bonfire elsewhere in the level. uhh people with better senses of direction than me had a lot of fun building that mental map of how the burg connects to everything. the level and boss design takes a turn when you're in the lord section as well. once you beat ornstein and smough the later areas have like less exploration to do, the demon zone is blatantly unfinished the bed of chaos boss you talked about was directly a subject of an apology by the director. having your damage fall off and feel unsatisfying suuuuuuucks and without a guide to point you towards the better wands or spells will make that feel worse.. especially when it's more often you'll find better meelee weapons. and that kinda hampers that flow of trying a boss dodging an attack that killed you last time and getting into a rhythm with it. practicing the fight like you mentioned. and it sucks when it feels like that practice isn't paying off because your damage is bad or you're not retaining it because you're also having to deal with the runback. Watching you play it kinda shines a light on a lot of it's flaws and fans should be familiar with those flaws not dismissive of them. because yours is the new player experience. if there's a chance to shine a better light on the series for you it's suggesting exploring more and seeking more help when you need. blind playthroughs are fun but when these came out everyone was asking for help with everything from exploring the levels to beating the fights to figuring out what the fuck was going on.
Dark souls is way better (for me) if you take it as a exploring experience, its a world to discover and explore, a place to take some time alone and to reflect on what everything should or could mean. I think that this "chalenge hard ass game" isn't realy what Dark souls is about. The hole game is a metaphor or like a poetry if your are not found of lore, mitology and foreingn culture Dark souls becamo only a hard chalenge.... and it is not that, not only that.
You have many very W takes I’d like to add nuance to. In short, Dark souls is just _jank_ - a half-finished work of passion forced out the door by its publisher. * Dark Souls is egregiously slow. I believe the developers were trying instead for _deliberate_ , which it _is_ despite being mired in lethargy. Everything feels like moving through molasses. From Soft will realize “deliberateness” better and better with each following game. * Whatever From Soft intended with the Bed of Chaos, they get an F for execution. * Capybara is the laziest shit ever (copy paste 3 mobs, put it in an unfair location, slap a health bar on it). * Boss run-backs are a contentious topic. Some see the run-back as kind of “part of the boss”, and so mastering a boss entails mastering the run-up _to_ the boss. Were the bosses any more mechanically complex, this would not work at all. In subsequent titles, run-backs become shorter and shorter, and usually scale inversely to the difficulty or complexity of the boss. By Elden Ring, run-backs go on the endangered list. * I’m betting you one-shot the Four Kings, because otherwise you would have felt compelled to mention the closest bonfire is fucking _Firelink Shrine_. Like yeah, there’s an obvious diegetic reason for there to be no bonfires, but come _on_…
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I just remembered I had this video ready to go and with the Elden Ring expansion having just recently released, I figured I should post it [this video was made ages ago]
Honestly, perfect timing.
Nice
Please make video about short funny stubborn game called DEEEER Simulator
Before Terraria?
Elden Ring actually created Stakes of Marika, which are checkpoints usually connected outside of a boss arena, so everytime you die you can choose to go respawn there instead of the last grace you touched (graces are Elden Ring's bonfires). There are only 3 main bosses that don't have stakes and, even then, the run backs are definitely not as bad as any of the Dark Souls ones (except for maybe the Placidusax run back, which is really annoying but you can consistently not get hit there)
My brain just doesn't appreciate overcoming something tough the same way Dark Souls players do. When I finished the first brute chieftan in Halo Infinite, the one by the giant mining laser, I thought "Thank goodness that's over. I never want to do that again." I wasn't proud or felt accomplished, I was glad the frustrating thing was done being frustrating, and I could get back to the gameplay I liked. Some people's brains just don't get that same dopamine rush from beating tough challenges. My brain sees most super-tough challenges as something that gets in the way of the fun I would rather be having.
I generally prefer The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, and Skyrim for my fantasy action and exploration dopamine. The wandering around and seeing the beautiful nature scenery, mysterious old ruins and twisted hellscapes. And even though the combat is far more simplistic, I just like the feedback in combat of swinging swords and casting spells. I like games with generous margins for error, where it doesn't severely punish you for making a mistake, and instead lets you learn and turn things around in the same fight. A completely different style of fun for different preferences. And that's fine.
As a busy "adult" who completed Dark Souls for the first time at around age 40, and love the whole franchise, I know you weren't talking to me, so here goes.🙂As with your video, these are just my humble opinions. [Minor edits for clarity and flow.]
In some ways I think you got dealt dirty by the wider gaming community and your own expectations about the game. Combat is NOT the main focus. Difficulty is not the point. Dark Souls is just as much about world/level design and exploration as it is about combat and difficulty.
"Not enough hours in the day": I am NOT a gifted gamer. Capra took me way more tries than it did for you. I see estimates of "this game will take you X hours" and in my brain just go "X*2" or even 3. And still I don't believe it took me much time to "git gud" at Dark Souls (and I do hate that phrase with a passion. lol), and it was COMPLETELY different from anything I'd ever played. I certainly started having fun almost immediately; long before I got "good", if you can call what I do "good".
But if you are trying to complete a game on an arbitrary deadline with expectations that aren't a great fit with reality (including YOUR reality of what you need to get out of a game to feel satisfied), and aren't willing to get some mechanical help in the form of a quick guide or two, or advice from your friend, I could see how you'd have a less than stellar experience. Usually when I'm introducing friends to Dark Souls, I avoid pointing them to WHAT they should do or where they should go unless they're extremely desperate and about to go hollow (Souls slang for "put the game disc through a blender"), as those tend to be the most fun discoveries in a blind playthrough, but I will (if they are OK with it) offer tips on mechanics and soft skills like "roll into attacks, wait 'till they attack, then swing or swig [your Estus]", usually after they've had a go and are asking for a little advice.
The boss runbacks, yes, some of them are a bit much in DkS1. Usually when one is WAY too much (like your experience in Lower Burg), it's a sign that you might have missed a shortcut somewhere, which I've long thought of as something Capra is there to teach. Had they put a bonfire right nearby (or let you retry immediately, as lots of games do), I think bosses would feel even MORE like roadblocks that you have to get past. I can't tell you how many times I've been half a dozen of attempts in on a boss that just isn't budging, and thought to myself, "is this even where I should BE right now?" -- that runback gives me time to think, time to process, time to learn the boss fight (my brain tends to process better when I'm doing unrelated things), time to get stronger, and time to re-evaluate my life choices and go do something else for a bit. I would easily burn out if I played Souls games as a boss A, then boss B, then boss C, seeing the beautiful level design as a means to an end rather than the bosses simply unlocking more awesome avenues to explore.
It's also a game where a little mechanical knowledge goes a LONG way, and while I fully admit it does a crap job at teaching you that knowledge, my experience in the Souls community is that most people don't just try to muscle through that aspect without getting informed advice, watching a video, or taking a peek at the wiki. *Should* you have to do any of these things? I don't know. Probably not. But it's certainly not the only "classic" game that suffers from this, and damn near every critique in your video could have been favorably addressed with a little bit of game knowledge, and a little less bias going in. To an earlier point, I think the "Dark Souls is so hard" expectation has people go in thinking doing 1-pixel worth of damage to a boss health bar is how it's SUPPOSED to be, so it may be you didn't think anything was WRONG, and that people like this for some reason. (There are a few who do "challenge runs" who get off on this sort of masochism, but most of us do not. Although they can be fun to watch, that's sadism. lol)
Would you have liked the game then? Who knows! Dark Souls certainly isn't everyone's cuppa, and that's quite alright. It absolutely isn't perfect, and many of your criticisms have good merits.
And you're planning on playing Dark Souls 2? May I ask why? Some people really like it, but I don't think it's controversial that it's the least popular, and many of the things you disliked are even WORSE in DkS2! I'd say just jump straight to Elden Ring, or give Dark Souls 3 a try. There is no real story continuity, aside from a few obscure references, so you're not missing anything important. The combat speeds up, the runbacks get easier, among many other quality of life improvements.
Anyway, wherever your adventures may take you, I love the vids!
Good comment
You absolutely nailed it! I played the game on switch, meaning I could play in little bursts between getting frustrated, and not being forced to smash my head into a brick wall for a continuous hour+ helped a lot.
I came in mostly blind to the game, but looking up guides on 'alright what do I even do, weapon wise' when I just couldn't get past the four kings and Mr.Death were a big part in me not giving up.
The farming also is definitely key. A lot of my level ups came from me fighting the path enemy's over and over and collecting my souls, or using a ring of sacrifice when they got to like, 2-3 level ups worth.
Well said. My experience is pretty similar, although my introduction was hollow knight. The one thing I would add/emphasize: games offer something for your time and effort. If what DS offers isn’t inherently interesting/compelling for you, it’s unlikely that you will ever enjoy that game. Which, as you said, is okay. I don’t like Tears of the Kingdom. Doesn’t mean it’s not good, its rewards just don’t interest me.
Ok, I am so glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I got like 10 hours in before I just set it down and never picked it up again. But I thought i was the crazy one because everyone loves it so much.
You are not crazy. You just have to realize that leaving the game is part of the process. So, for your own good, pick that game again and start from the beginning. No matter how many years might have passed, the experience of those 10 hours is somewhere in your brain, waiting for you to go back and destroy that boss you had problems with.
Believe me. I was where you are now.
@@SystemBDOr just let the man play the games he enjoys and stop doing some 5D chess explanations why dark souls is the best video game ever because you quit it after 10 hours
Because of reverse psychology, followed by peer pressure. "Prepare to die" and all that. They used the same method that was used to make potatoes popular in france. Before they posted guards around the plantations, nobody wanted them (look at demon souls. Had its fans, but it wasn't popular). They were a dull, tasteless vegetable as far as the general population was concerned. It was only when it was all dressed up to seem desirable and exclusive that people were interested. Not saying it's a bad game - potatoes aren't bad either. It's just that anyone saying there isn't a psychological aspect driving it, sorry...I call some BS on that. Also, games journalists can finish it. It has nothing to do with anything but your willingness to drink the coolade xD
There are points in these games where you’ve played too much and it becomes incredibly frustrating. Your brain basically gets fatigued and you become overwhelmed. You have to give yourself breaks and come back to souls games when you’re recharged.
I've rang 2 bells at lv 37 without knowing that estus flask can be upgraded and when i found out, the firekeeper is dead, without further ado, I immediately uninstalled the game. Boss fight mostly easy, the problem is you have no clue where to go, and lack of basic introduction.
Elden Ring IMO corrects a lot of what makes Dark Souls annoying. Not everything. But I think you might enjoy it, given a fair shot.
Yeah, I've heard other people say thing along the same lines. I might give it a shot some day
I think based on the problems he has with dark souls, bloodborne might be a better option. First off, elden ring is so much longer than bloodborne. Plus, not needing to worry about encumbrance would be helpful. Also, elden ring has an overwhelming number of spells and equipment, while bloodborne is much more streamlined, with less to think about with a clearer emphasis on the different movesets available due to having a fraction of the weapons with only a handful of shared movesets . The straightforward weapon upgrade system is also more accessible.
im the opposite, i think elden ring is like the worst case scenario for dark souls games
@@qwegol1I agree with you
@@ThroarbinGamingI definitely took a bit to get into souls likes over my friend group. 3 was the first I gave the most attention, though 2 was the first I ever “purchased” it sort of sat on the shelf and I didn’t really go back to it til I had cleared 3. Elden Ring is a much more approachable iteration but that doesn’t take away from the challenge. Since I’m a newer viewer to your content and only being a quarter through this video. I have to agree that I believe Dark Souls would be right up your alley. You appreciate a challenge and learning the attack patterns is already in your nature. That’s pretty much the basics of souls like games, they’re never particularly hard once you see a boss/enemy enough.
What I really love about this game are its lore and World design. The mechanics are a product of their time and the circumstances in which the game was made, leading many of them to be clunky or outdated by today's standards. It's been many years since I first beat the game, but I remember getting so mad at every part of it when I started out, from the camera controls to the long locked-in animations. However, the game really does force you to "get good", not by improving your individual skill necessarily, but by adapting your approach. There's so much to explore, and the interconnected nature of the World means that you can tackle many of the fights with better gear or simply in a different order than the "intended" route. My first playthrough was a pure Dex build with a katana and no armour, which really forced me to learn mechanics such as roll i-frames and parrying. I think you'll find you have a very different experience replaying it with a different build and the knowledge accumulated from a previous play through.
Same I like the world and lore
Despite many… many… attempts, I have never been able to enjoy any of the darksouls games😢
It’s okay, friend. What games do you enjoy?
Same (except Nioh wich is a blast)... but i still play
@@caioandre7176 yeah Nioh or Lies of P are games that actually fixed the issues of souls and made it playable
Capra Demon and Bed of Chaos are two of the most hated bosses in the series, even the creator hates BoC and considers it the worst he’s ever made.
You mentioned a lot that the slowness of the game bothered you a lot. If you’re willing to give Fromsoft another shot, every game since Bloodborne is was faster than this. I suggest trying out Bloodborne, the creator’s favorite game, first if you want to give this another go.
Yeah bloodborne and dark souls 3 are amazing
I would argument that bloodborn and DS3 are not much faster, but much more forgiving. I think the reason for this is the downgrade of protection in those games in favor of mobility.
In DS1 you can tank every single boss (belive me. I tried. Several times) and the very fast roll mechanic is quite hidden.
A common story with Dark Souls is to try it, be crushed by some boss (Capra Demon being a good point) and then abandon the game... Just to pick it again months later, choose another class, find out that *the game is not so much about your ability with the sword/magic but about gaining knowledge*, and have a blast with it.
Paradoxically, not allowing yourself to give up and restart at a later date might have hindered your enjoyment of the game. Whenever you have the chance, create another character with a different class and see how far your knowledge takes you. You'll be surprised.
I very much agree with this when you take breaks you come back wanting and ready to kill the boss that your stuck on and making new characters and running through parts that used to be hard feels very good
Mines similier I left the game for a couple of months and came back beacause my freind wanted me to give it another try and got hooked after blight town
@@zerythe2019 Fair it does have lots of flaws but if someone can look past them I think it can be pretty enjoyable.
@@ashton8352 I can sort of agree when I gave Dark souls a second try I blasted through the first two bosses, but it didn't make me enjoy the game because I found the combat boring and thus all getting better at the game did was slightly relieve my stress, I have since fully given up on the game I simply don't like it its a shame but that's simply how it is I would still encourage new players who didn't like the game to give it a second chance I gave it a second chance because I didn't want to be to rash.
Yeah, I played through most of the game just fine on my own, then hit a wall with the 4 kings and left for a few weeks. After I came back, it only took a little bit of time to push through, and I enjoyed the game so much more than I had before I left. Sometimes, you just need to put it down for a bit. The same thing happened to my wife with Elden Ring.
i think there is a point to be said about treating dark souls like an exploration game, when i got into bloodborne that's immediately how i treated it and exploring often shortens routes or leads you to items that can help with bosses, and speaking as someone who had a 9-5 when elden ring dropped i could only sink in an hour or 2 a weekday but i still massively enjoyed that game possible because i had friends at work that i could talk to (and make annoyed by me killing bosses they really struggled with). but from experience if dark souls isn't up your ally other "Souls-likes" will typically be a more fun experience (think the Jedi Fallen Order series)
your friend did a terrible job at guiding you :P I assume he was trying to be hands off by not telling you about mechanics. I loved playing magic since demon's souls and it is easier. your weapons can be upgraded to scale damage with your intelligence (your friend didnt explain). There are many chances to cast spells inbetween attacks. and the boss which you hated because it kills you as soon as you enter was optional (your friend didnt tell you) and during the tutorial you clearly missed some messages because you didnt lock on or know how to roll (your friend didnt tell you) and lastly, running to the boss is player choice, the game tries to encourage you to farm by putting enemies between you and the boss. there is also the multiplayer factor which is huge; I remember early on when i face a new area or boss, I would play as another player's summon and help them as much as i can while also not losing any experience I gained (both knowledge and souls)
Yeah, he wasn't meant to be very hands on, more or less just there to point me to place to place and he would actively try to make sure I fight literally every boss and I had no idea. There were definitely parts where he helped a lot because I would never have figured out how to open certain doors or find certain areas but he also went out of his way to mess with me to.
@@ThroarbinGaming Then I'm still with OP -- your friend did a terrible job at guiding you. Maybe it's what you asked for, so I'm not blaming either one of you. But this type of guidance probably detracted from your experience, rather than adding to it. I made a (much) longer reply about this in a thread of its own, but certainly agree with everything this poster said. Dark Souls is not a boss rush. Speed and challenge runners might make it look like that, because they've optimized it to within an inch of its life, but that's not how the rest of us enjoy it.
You mention never having a window big enough to actually cast a spell...
Shortly after a clip where you spend a good ten seconds or so on Quelaag's flank, while she was stuck in a long animation and couldn't attack you back.
That was your window. It's all about perspective, and learning to make the opportunity for success. Except the Bed of Chaos. That boss sucks, and that's why it doesn't reset whenever you make progress and die.
My experience was similar I played dark souls 1 for seven to eight hours at absolute most, I was sort of in denial about not liking the game due to how highly praised it is so I kept giving it second chances I've since realised that I should have only given it one second chance at most to make sure I wasn't being to rash.
These criticisms seem fair and right, the boss runs and some other mechanics are ROUGH. But these points are for Dark Souls 1, not the franchise and it’s other games from the creator. Fromsoftware usually learns from the previous entries and the next game is much better. Dark Souls 1 is near the start where a lot of things are not fleshed out.
I often wonder if there’s something wrong with the reward system in my brain but I rarely, if ever feel any sense of accomplishment after beating something hard not only in games but also irl.
I never played the actual Dark Souls games but I have friends and even a sibling who’re all obsessed with these games and also Elden Ring, Bloodborne etc, both of which I actually have played at least a little but never got far in either.
When I played Bloodborne, I didn’t hate it, I was pressured into giving it a shot by my brother and while the normal combat wasn’t so bad, the moment I bumped into the first boss, I quickly realised that I most likely wouldn’t truly be able to figure out how to beat the damn thing, like normal enemies no big deal, but figuring out even the first boss seemed beyond my skill ceiling.
Elden Ring I dropped before I got to the actual first boss, (ignoring the optional tutorial boss that people meme on) simply because the reputation of these games intimidated me.
It’s worth stressing that I generally play games on easy and genuinely do suck at most games, hell, I’ve got chronic pain that flares up when I’m stressed or struggling, and so I doubt that I’ll go back.
There were many other games I quit for similar reasons and to be frank, I don’t feel like I’m missing out
Thank you for your video, your feelings about Dark Souls are exactly like mine as well. I am in my 30s, I work fulltime, I don't have the time, soul, perseverance or spirit to do the same thing over and over again, without any reward or progress. The same feeling is what made me quit Hades as well. I wanted to love these games so much, but I couldn't. The "skill ceiling" you mention is what I feel very much, "get gud" means more playing when playing isn't fun, and the "sense of achievement" after finishing a boss feel null to me.
Surprisingly, Bloodborne works well for me, for being snappy and responsive, and a focus on shooting and dodging. There is nothing of the "slowness" of Dark Souls that you ran into as well. So I think many aspects go into it, and you are not alone. Many thanks, I feel understood and seen too. :]
You've echoed every complaint I've ever had with the Souls games. I absolutely hate them despite being a very avid gamer. I know people adore this franchise but it feels like such a waste of time with its redundancy. I know it all comes down to taste. If I wanted to "get good" at something, I would much rather it be Doom Eternal on Nightmare difficulty.
yea the "run backs" are infamous personally i have never played a dark souls, the only soulslike games i have played was Elden ring plus its DLC, and i enjoyed that cause for the main bosses there would almost always be a bonfire or site of grace as they are called in that game right outside the bosss room, so only rarely would i have to run back to a boss after dying, and even when i did they were not that horrible, what i enjoyed about the game was more of the character building and like which strat i would use, if i were gonna use magic or physical or faith, if it was gonna be bleed or stagger, what kind of weapon like big freaking hammer, to small daggers to swords or scythes that shot out a magic protectile or just spells or incantations, there are so many different possibilities for a "build" in that game, so that was what i really enjoyed and have completed the main game of Elden ring about 7 times now and the DLC once so far
Truthfully it was the world and the building around it. It was the lore and the companions you made along the way. It was the fright of what was behind that boss fog. It was the feeling of dread when walking around a new corner and not knowing what is ahead. It was the feeling of finding something for the first time that helped your build in the game. All of this make the souls like one of my favorite. Sure I don’t get that feeling anymore after 100s of hours but I still remember my first time playing these games and I hold on to that while helping other through there first times.
So glad I'm not alone.
Honestly, despite what every fanboys will tell you, I really don't think DS1 is the best way to get into souls likes
DS3 and Elden Ring are much more polished while DS1 is pure jank
Hell, even simpler games could be a great way to get into it, like Star Wars Fallen order or Remnant from the Ashes
Anyway, don't sweat it, it's ok to dislike something no matter what these assholes will say
Ps: during the voiceovers your mic seems to be peaking quite a lot
I lived in a house with four other people and we all worked regular dayjobs when we got into Dark Souls.
Your friend might have had good intent but he did you few favours in getting to love a game that will let you play it wrong a million ways and never tell you.
You should do something like this for Elden Ring or Armoured Core 6! ER was my first Fromsoft game and AC6 was my second. They both completely blew me away. Maybe do AC6 first as a sort of palette cleanser, as it has a more conventionally told story and explains a lot more.
Seconded BIG time
there's four things researchers say people play video games for, and genres perfect for, and focused on each niche; social (MMOs like WoW), problem solving (puzzles like Portal), exploration (RPGs lik Skyrim and Fallout) and mastery (soulslikes like Dark Souls). Most games have these 4 in different amounts or only hit one or 2, how they do that can even depend on your individual playstyle (even Stardew Valley can be played for mastery, it has a vibrant speedrunning community)
I would like to know who those researchers are. Any link or term by which I can search them?
Mastery can be applied to the most game genres. Few people may play Dark Souls for mastery, like most other games but not large majority of people.
I think most people play video games for-
Entertainment
Competition ( PvP or overcoming anytype of toughness)
Socialising
Etc
This is why I enjoy the soulsborne series of games:
I like how the combat feels, I like how every movement has to be intentional and methodical. I like how simple it is at the start but how difficult it is to master. I like learning enemy attack patterns and being able to counter them effectively after learning them. Feeling like you are getting better after learning how an enemy works is so satisfying to me.
Also I like the setting and the world. I like being able to experience a classic medieval dark fantasy adventure, living through my character on a journey only previously told through storybooks. I like slowly unraveling the complex lore of the world.
I love exploring the world, finding shortcuts and finding beautiful locations.
I didn't pick this series up until I was 18. I heard that Hollow Knight was quite similar to it, and since Hollow Knight is my favorite game of all time, I absolute had to try it out. And I think it's true. I like Hollow Knight and the souls games for the same reasons.
I think one of the main reasons you didn't enjoy the experience was because of you picking mage and not knowing how to actually do a playthrough of a mage. And just in general not knowing and missing some things. (Your "guide" was really no help tbh)
It looks like you where doing a lot less damage to enemies than you should have been doing at each stage of progression. Maybe you were investing skill points into the wrong stats? Did you not upgrade your weapons (enough)?
Also Dark Souls (the first one) is very slow. But the later games like Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring are much faster paced. Granted, I think that makes those games more difficult. It still uses the same combat system just that everything is faster.
Also many of your complaints are shared by hardcore fans of the series. No one likes the Capra Demon's tiny arena, dogs and the run back. No one like the Bed of Chaos. Run backs in the first and second game are notoriously long. But these are all faults of the older games. Fromsoft learned a lot from the first game and didn't repeat most of their mistakes in future games like, Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and especially Elden Ring. (They still keep adding poison swamps though ;-;)
(Fun fact, you did miss a whole big area. It's the DLC that comes included with the remastered version of the game. But I don't blame you for missing it because it is very well hidden.)
I don't recommend you play Dark Souls 2. It has a lot of the same problems this game has and even some worse ones. I think Bloodborne or Elden Ring would be a better idea. A new IP with some different mechanics seems like the best choice imo.
Dark Souls combat is just quick time events where the game doesn't tell you what buttons to press when. I hated it, no nuance, no strategy, no tactics, no innovation, no consistency. Just do it they way they want you to or die, but they waste your time by not telling you the way they want you to do it. There are so many better games than Dark Souls to spend your time on, it just isn't worth it. I really enjoyed The Surge, similar style game but it respected its players, it had difficulty settings so you could enjoy it no matter how good you were, and more importantly the combat was actually interesting and fun, you had different ways of doing things based on what you wanted to do so it didn't get anywhere near as monotonous and repetitive as Dark Souls, and you could make educated guesses about how to deal with an enemy and it would usually pay off so you didn't have to bash your head against a brick wall until you find out that a particular action inexplicably makes you immune to damage from a particular attack when similar attacks from other enemies would kill you for the same actions.
I hear Elden Ring is better, but Dark Souls was such a shit show of a game that I don't think From Software would ever be capable of making something actually enjoyable so I wont be wasting my money on it.
You can separate your personal enjoyment of a game's design vs your critique of the game as a game.
As you said, you recognize the merits of the world design, pattern recognition, challenge, it just simply isn't for you.
Some mix of the pacing, options given, or expectations didn't add up for you.
It's not a bad game, it's just not for you.
I am saddened that the public perception of the community's "face" has become "GIT GUD." I cannot speak for everyone, but the meaning behind these words, to me, has always a form of "harsh encouragement," not meant to mock someone struggling with gameplay (though I have certainly seen it used in bad faith in such ways; I'm speaking broadly here).
There's nothing wrong with choosing to get help against bosses. I think it can be really fun, and I say this as an extremely hardcore fan of souls-likes in general, as well as the works of FromSoftware. It's in the game! You should play it how you want to play it!
With that said, to your confusion about the difficulty of run-backs to bosses, I at least do not consider the boss itself to be the entirety of its challenge. The difficulty in getting back to fight the boss is also a part of the boss. Everything I do contributes to the resources I have remaining to fight the boss, so every action I take is in some way work toward defeating the boss I'm working on. If I get back to the boss door without enough resources to even feel like I have a decent chance, sometimes I don't even attempt to fight it; I choose to bank my souls, upgrade, and learn the route better. Perhaps I might try to rethink a better route. Would it have been more satisfying if you had discovered the alternate pathway to the Capra Demon yourself? The impression I get is that you would never find it, especially based on your comments about exploration at the end.
At its core, the greatest beauty of Dark Souls is in the exploration and the lore of the world. The intricate, tiny details in the game that tell complex stories and require careful observation and consideration to understand are why we are here. It might be strange to say it, but Dark Souls is, in a sense, a "simulation" rather than a game about "combat." The adversity and enemies before you are there because...that's where they are, not because they are trying to explicitly stop you. In many cases, the player character is the arbitrary aggressor, and the enemies are natural parts of the environment that would never act aggressively. There is a profound sadness in discovering this that laces every corner of the world.
This is what Dark Souls is about. Consider, for example, the success of VaatiVidya's channel and the Prepare to Cry series. This is the real meat of Dark Souls. While the games are difficult, they are usually not difficult in ways that actually require intense execution; some of the most laudable qualities about them are the ability of even inexperienced or terrible players to eventually find ways to triumph by choosing new strategies or approaches when previous ones failed. Everything is a way to seek power to overcome your obstacle (even summoning allies!) so that, too, should be considered a triumph!
I think it's unfortunate that you didn't feel that. I wish you the best in your continued gaming, wherever it takes you.
this is the type of guy who beats dark souls because he thinks "he has to". dude if you do not enjoy the game stop playing. you said you wanted to quit after the first hour. then do it, this game is not for everyone. you either love it or you hate it. no in between
Please dont play Dark Souls 2, Many of the issues you had with the game are much worse in Dark Souls 2 with delays after actions, boss run backs and bosses that swarm you like the Capra Demon. Insted play the Demon Souls remake as it has a larger focus on exploration and bosses similar to Priscilla. The biggest reason Dark Souls players don't like that game as much is because the game dose not focus on combat nearly as much which could be a positive.
Or if your looking for something more focused on combat you could play Dark Souls 3 or Elden Ring.Dark Souls 3 is the most refined version of Dark Souls there is, While Elden Ring puts an open world spin on the Dark Souls experience.
I also tend to gravitate to games with quick combat, and also got incredibly frustrated with Dark Souls when I first tried it. One of my friends helped me learn how to play it, teaching me about guarding, timing, where to strike enemies, etc. and I got to a point where I was able to finish my first boss outside the first area. I have not finished DS, but I have played a little of Elden Ring and noticed I had a lot more fun with that one, and learning how to play DS also helped me relearn how to play my favorite game series on the most difficult settings and make it more enjoyable (even though they are a lot easier than any souls game in general).
After I saw a few videos try to diminish the quality of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom by comparing it to Elden Ring, I decided to give it a shot to similarly try and understand why people loved this series.
I've gotta say, I'm in total agreement with you in every way. The "difficulty" was never because the game was inherently challenging but because it was unapologetically unfair and tendious. I get that some people can find fun in that, but theres nothing fun about that to me. Every victory brought a sense of relief rather than joy and I felt punished for not looking up guides or tutorials.
you don't need to diminish the quality of TOTK by comparing to Elden ring, TOTK, is the worst zelda ever, BOTW destroyed the license.
Both of these game are game that have "Zelda" in them, but are totally an other license.
@Goudlock Your opinion and lack of supporting evidence have been noted.
I don't entirely disagree that the games are a serious departure from what I love about Zelda games, but to disregard the quality, care, and unfathomably impressive feat of those games just because its not what you want is intellectually dishonest.
i disagree with this point i actually think that its very fair and not once have a felt that a death was undeserved
i have beaten every souls games multiple times with no guides and i have never once felt like a death was unfair it has always been my fault and a opportunity to learn
@samuelcalkins307 In some ways, I got a little ahead of myself. Not every aspect of the game felt unfair, and I did finish the game. So, it's not like I hated everything about it.
What I felt was unfair was just how fast many enemies would move, how quickly they could close a gap was insane compared to the limited movement of the player, many attacks were way faster than mine and could combo for way longer, some attacks had insane homing or large areas of effect with no indication of distance from the enemy, and the short and varied delays before many attacks ruined my timing and I would dodge early as a result which I could never adjust to because the delay was different per enemy or even per attack.
@@jonathon422 i was just ranting, but if you want my full opinion :
The lack of good music, because yes i have listen to both OST, and, compared to other zelda game, i hate/don't care about almost all of it. (here it's taste).
The weapon mechanic and the fact you can get rich really fast and easy make me don't care about almost everything i'm going to loot. (different from all the zelda game)
I really hate that they make the story like this, and optional.(different from all the zelda game)
Zelda was all about puzzle, even boss fight are in a way puzzle, here it's entierly shift, and focus way more on combat, i don't like that at all. (different from all the zelda game)
The shrine : The fact most of "good" puzzle are inside of these tastless shrine that have no personality make me don't want to do or search them. And i say Tastless, because they almost all look the same(different from all the zelda game)
Here it's more for TOTK : the fact almost every puzzle can be cheese by the mechanic make them way to simple and easy.. Don't get me wrong, i like to cheese puzzle in game, but not when every puzzle can be cheese (different from all the zelda game)
for BOTW : the rain mechanic was stupid, like you just want to advance time because you can't climb. (here it's more like a mechanic you find in open world, so it's just a new mechanic)
I don't really like in game the cooking mechanic, and both of these game you pass WAY TO MUCH TIME, in the menue for that, and even then, you pass to much time in menue in general.(different from all the zelda game)
One of the biggest reason : the fact you have EVERYTHING at first, that remove the metroidvania mechanic i love in game.(different from all the zelda game)
Oh and in BOTW the dungeaon were almost non existant, and they looked exactly the same, at least in TOTK it change, but then again everything can be cheese almost.
I writted "(different from all the zelda game)" to show why i said that for me, these are game with the title "zelda" on them, but are not really it.
If you want to try a more souls like game, I would recommend Nine Sols, which works as a mix between Sekiro and Hollow Knight. I'm also very curious now if you'd like the game Rain World, a very unique and challenging game.
Lies of P is a must try. Once you figure out the parry mechanic in the starting area it becomes extremely satisfying.
I love Dark Souls, but am so completely terrible at the game. I never beat it, but i love the lore. I love how entirely indifferent the world is to you, the player. The level design, the oppressive atmosphere, and the one thought of keep going. Just keep going for as long as you can. But you're right, there are skill caps and mine pretty low. I never got past Ornstein and Smough. Thats as far as my undead could go.
I have he exact same feeling about ds1 as you have. I played until blighttown but then i quit. I loved most of the bosses until that point (except capra demon, i hate him with a passion xD), but i just couldnt run through the same hallway again just to get ambushed by a shitty mob, getting hit off the bridge and having to run all the way back. I have a friend who absolutely loves souls games and didnt have a problem with this, until he played elden ring. after that even he told me that he gets now how frustrating and meaningless that running back is.
Since i told him i loved the hard boss fights he told me about the game "furi" and i instantly fell in love. its a boss rush game with hard bosses but virtually no downtime between attempts, no upgrade mechanic where you have to grind and snappy and fast paced gameplay. if you havent played that game i can highly recommend it.
Also what mesmerized me the first ti.e I played it was the combat. It didn't felt like any fighting game, like "press Button to attack" "press button to defend" it felt like I realy had two hands and an infinite set of weapons and moves to choose and use and before even getting to undead burg I was already amazed by the possibilities that the combat system seemed to offer me. Realy feels to me that your "easy mage mode" sabotaged you
Masochism and a desire to feel superior to lesser gamers. That's my guess as to why people enjoy dark souls.
my first time playing dark souls was a few months before 2 came out, i got through the tutorial,. explored firelink for like an hour, somehow completely missed the path to the burg, wandered into the graveyard and got slaughtered by skeletons, because this was at the height of the "prepare to die" level marketing i just assumed that was the base difficulty i was meant to be dealing with (plus most games have skeletons as relatively weak early enemies) so i just kept banging my head against the wall till i gave up. didn't try souls again until bloodborne, which i loved and ended up getting the platinum trophy on
Oof. Yeah, I think that marketing actually didn't do the game very many favors. It makes so many people think the game is supposed to be painful 100% of the time. Yeah, all the games have painful moments, but they are also supposed to be fun. That marketing still has people to this day think they have to power through an area too high level for them because they were told that is how the game is supposed to be, and they miss out on the parts of the game they would love
Just wondering if you would ever make a video on Dead space? (Specifically the remake)
It's one of my personal favourite games of all time and it's such a great time from beginning to end.
Maybe some day
Perseverance is the name of the tango, man. That's why many of us enjoy the game, to overcome unsurmountable odds, and although the issues that you mention are infamous even in the community, they are from the fact that DS 1 is an old ass game, perhaps not that vintage, but still with the quirks of it's predecessor with the long boss runs and slow game style that the most recent games of the company have corrected, perhaps not in DSII, but certainly.
And even if the term 'git gud' came from mostly basement dwellers, I truly believe that comes from the fact that everyone has that 'skill ceiling ' and that we can eventually break it, through that perseverance, most are quick to it, some are slower paced, even some to be guided, but that's the perseverance that comes with the game, that everyone can beat Dark Souls, that everyone can overcome unsurmountable odds.
Some people love that game because of the massages and the lore, such as myself, those messages that can be interpolated with depression or to live another day through repetition, through tyranny or through ourselves.
I appreciate the mention that “git gud” has come to mean, “overcome your limitations.” Viva La Dirt League has a great video on it in their Dark Souls series.
I felt this way myself honestly, I HATED the runbacks, and at the time the bosses just felt so difficult, so I understand where you're coming from exactly! For me it only just recently clicked, and I'm at the end of my second playthrough of Dark Souls Remastered, I also beat Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order, a newer Soulslike called "Fountains" and now I'm playing through Salt and Sanctuary! For me it's the combat, the ebb and flow of enemies and bosses movesets and learning the openings! The bosses feel like mighty mountains that you must climb and when you achieve victory and see the victory screen it just pokes that little voice in the back of my head saying "you did it"!!
At the end of the day, everybody has to realize that this is a video game. You don't NEED to play or beat it. If you're not having fun, just play something you enjoy! It's totally understandable! There's tons of video essays and lore breakdowns if you like the world!
My first and only dark souls (and souls like game) has been dark souls 3, and that's only because i watched the gamegrumps youtube channel in 2015 do their playthrough of it, and it so happens to be one of my favorite playthroughs on their channel. I decided to give it a shot myself some years ago, and basically i've played the game on and off for years now and still havent beat it. Like you, i have a job (a stressful one at that) and definitely don't feel like playing a stressful difficult game in my free time. What i ended up doing was a bunch of research and deciding on a build, and using a walkthrough for the game. I'm the kind of person who hates puzzles and hates figuring things out, I like to know the answer and improve upon the most efficient way to do something. As I replayed the game over and over again I made a little more progress each time and started to enjoy my method. Eventually I fell off of the game and moved onto something else and havent really returned since, but if i got back to where i was and continued I probably would have beat it. Dark souls is really what you make of it, I wouldn't count beating it as the main objective but since you were kind of forced to play it i understand the frustration.
Capra Demon and Bed of Chaos are two of the most hated bosses in the series, even the creator hates BoC and considers it the worst he’s ever made.
You mentioned a lot that the slowness of the game bothered you a lot. If you’re willing to give Fromsoft another shot, every game since Bloodborne is was faster than this. I suggest trying out Bloodborne, the creator’s favorite game, first if you want to give this another go.
(Also, I know for a fact that your DS2 play through is going to be a nightmare unless you’re doing it purely co-op. It has the slowest combat and some terrible boss run ups.)
Something i wanna say about dark souls 2 is i played it super patiently and did pushups every time as an external motivation (half punishment half reward for dying) i found i enjoyed that game a ton more (after the start because the start is pretty universally agreed to be miserable, since you have to farm ADP a bit) the game is arguably more jank in terms of controls but the game felt like sens fortress to me, just puzzling out traps all the time and playing super cautious was a blast imo
For me, the enjoyment came from learning the enemies (both boss and trash), and the catharsis and joy felt when I finally kill that boss that's been beating me senseless for the past 3 hours (looking at you, Full-Grown Fallingstar Beast). Yes, the games are hard, but only if you attempt to play at your own pace instead of the game's. There's a tempo to combat in every FromSoft game, and you have to learn to flow with it if you want to get anything done.
It's 100% a knowledge and method game more so than a skill game yea.
Most of the souls game, if using the right method and knowledge, can be completed incredibly easily skill wise.
I'm not a dark souls hater but i'm a huge mf critic especially of the first half. but i'm with you i adored sens fortress as well, it felt so fun it's my favorite area for sure
For my part, I got into Dark Souls because of the lore. I came to know the game for the same reason everyone did, its difficulty. I am a fan of medieval-fantasy and the setting really caught on to me, it is beautifully woven.
I off putted playing this game because of the difficulty, and still today, I really don't like the way pvp/invasions haha. But one day I got it on sale on steam and tried it. At first yes, it was discouraging.
But I came to appreciate the way the game's slow pace. I personally really like how I have to learn not only the bosses, but the environment itself to. I took my time with it and traveled at my own pace. I personally like to explore, take in the environment and figure out how to make things efficient.
Playing the game with a friend also opens it wide. A pair of hands can really change the experience, even if by technicality, the worlds gets 'harder'. Now a days, I own and played all the Souls series, love them all and play them often.
I am not a 'get good' person. I won't even qualify me as a 'great player'. The game still rock my tussles xD It is not a game for everyone, but I know there is ways to enjoy the world of it, there are many great content creators that covers the Lore and quirks of the game.
But it is dear to me, and it showed me that giving up, even in the hardest of times, is not worth it.
Hope it got a bit of light on a perspective of a casual Dark Souls Player :) Keep up the good content !
It took me a LONG time to get into Souls types, and my relationship is still very hot and cold. I played through DS1 Asylum a decade ago when it was free on XBox gold and didn't touch it for years until I bought 2 and 3 on sale on Steam. Very briefly played, couldn't really make progress, cheated a little to try to find some fun in the mechanics, and left it. Bought Elden Ring for the hype, got mad at the horse guy, refunded, and decided it was time to get good. Finally played through all of DS2, burned out at the end of DS3 and never ended up playing Elden Ring again. But I still get the itch now, sometimes. I recently bought Sekiro on sale, got through the first couple bosses, a number of mini bosses, and then got skill filtered by Genichiro. I'm taking my time with it. I'll probably come back to it eventually, because I yearn for this gameplay. There's nothing like it. When you figure it out, it is what gaming is meant to be. But part of me hates every minute of it.
I love Dark Souls, espicially this game because of its unique and genius leveldesign. I really love the fact that the game is so difficult, so let me explain why. Always dying and running to the boss again IS really frustrating and i dont think that anyone truly enjoys that part, but those bosses bring the most joy when you manage to defeat them. Think about it this way, you manage to defeat a boss after dying over and over, you didnt give up and despite every punch in the gut you got up and tried again. Its this feeling that you know the boss was difficult, not because someone told you so but because you experienced it yourself and still defeated it in the end
To me, the reason why I enjoy souls games and soulslikes is the challenge. I absolutely crave the challenge. Can it be immensely frustrating at times? Yes, absolutely. Sometimes I want to scream and throw my controller out the window. Worst I do is swear, I’m not breaking that $60 controller lmao. The culmination of practice, learning the move sets, exploring the world for rare items and upgrading my gear, leveling up, and finally killing the boss. It’s a sense of accomplishment that I finally did it. I got good. Then it’s onto the next challenge, the next adventure. It’s one of the few games that has true adversity and challenge to it. The closest thing I can compare it to conceptually is the “Doom Dance” in Doom Eternal. You absolutely suck at first, then you slowly learn the mechanics, how to handle each enemy, and you become almost unstoppable. Unstoppable until you get overconfident, then there’s a humility check. Souls games keep you at a constant focus. There’s a place for easy games to turn your brain off and just enjoy, just like there’s a place for souls games. I think souls games are so coveted by fans because a lot of modern games practically hand you the win, and these games present something that you feel like you can work towards and achieve. They give a sense of accomplishment.
Hope this helps!
Love to see some new people to try out this game. I personally love it and have about 500h in it. I am sorry you didnt like it and i dont mean that as mean as it can sound. I personally wouldnt say it is bad game design but it is more that there are just different people with different preferences and i feel like you didnt like the game speed because you are used to faster games which made you impatient. I love this game for the speed and long walkes to the bosses which let me learn the patterns and timings for different actions and for its open world. I still hope you could lean something from it let it be even that you now know those games arent for you or that you wont play mage again. Either way i hope you have a great day and thanks again for trying out this game 😁
My opinion is that , if it wasn't for the theme/lore of the game and it being so cryptic, causing the spawn of a dozen lore channels, dark souls wouldn't have been nearly as popular
What drew me to the game initially was the world, the art, the lore
That intro cinematic is quite possibly my favorite, ever.
But every time I played the game, it just felt Janky and hallow
The gameplay is bordering ps2 level
After beating Ds3 I gave Dark Souls a re visit, and even though the gameplay is still sketchy as ever
I got to live the lore that I always cherished for some reason
There's something hollow about that game that really does give me the creeps lmao
I've expressed my dislike oof from software games too my friends in many occasions, but wihle I usually only talk about what I dislike in the technical aspect of the games, from the bonkers control scheme for mouse and keyboard, the pathetic excuse of a "multiplayer", it being locked to 60 fps (sue me), and overall feeling like a shitty console port (on pc, obviously); the reality is that the games have an awfull balancing and i just dont find it fun when: it takes 100 hits to kill a boss; it takes 3 hits for me to die; taking 1 hit means taking the entire combo (and die). And thats talking only about the bosses, the regular enemies are no better, appearing in (sometimes) huge number, on a game thats has clearly been designed for 1 on 1-3 fights, from everything i know about games and game desing this is clearly an "artificial dificulty", intead of making bosses with harder moves that are an actual threat, the difficulty is trying to not get hit once and only doing something when you are sure its safe, there is no reward for "experimenting", no hitting inbetween attacks, even with fast weapons; Everything leaves you open, even if you hit it, so unless the enemy/boss has a huge recovery time, you are just playing the waiting game, and they keep attacking, meaning more chances of getting hit and just dieing.
I've come to the conclusion that i dont like anythig from From software nor anything thats trying to imitate them, I don't like thier game design and what entails. I still try some new and fun looking souls like, but so far, none has stuck with me. The idea seem so cool and it appeals to me, but noone, so far, has executed in a way that i liked.
Great video! I understand your criticisms of the game and think that I can agree at least on some aspects, though I have to admit that I did greatly enjoy the game considerably more than you. Glad to have been able to go through the journey with you and Fury, the person who started us both on this game series.
As someone who loves dark souls, I can tell you, that I didn't finish the first one either. If you're still willing to give it a chance, I would recommend trying Dark souls 3, as the mechanics feel much more fluid, and the combat is slightly more fast paced, which seemed like you would prefer.
Dark souls 3 was the first DS game I played, and had zero prior experience with these types of games, but I was still able to complete it in just a few dozen hours, taking it reaaally slowly.
I love dark souls, and I think this was a very good critique. Capra demon and bed of chaos are two of the most hated bosses in the entire series and your frustration with them is very valid. Dark souls is an interesting case when considering audience, it is absolutely a game not friendly for “casual gamers”/adults with little gaming experience, but also I think far too difficult and unfriendly a game for most kids and too slowly paced for teens.
If you really are interested in seeing what other people enjoy from dark souls I’d recommend watching one of the many “dark souls saved me” video essays on RUclips. I think you’ll find often that audience are young adults in college or just being to work full time jobs and feeling lost in life or facing some other struggle. Something about that audience I think really can connect with the game. (That’s not to say there’s not working adults who have gotten into and enjoy it, but I don’t think first time adult gamers is the game’s intended audience)
Your moment to moment experience is nigh-on identical to mine, and I _do_ love Dark Souls, so why…as you ask?
Lordran is this inscrutable, nebulous monster of a challenge that will _never_ present what you expected. It demands of you skills you’ve never needed as a gamer. It will beat you down, spit on you, and laugh. But it’s not as enigmatic as it presents itself… you _can_ uncover its mysteries, discover its mechanics, wisen to its tricks. When you master dark souls, you utterly _own_ it. If each step on that journey is of your own volition, the feeling of accomplishment is nigh unrivaled in gaming.
I fully understand your way of thinking here. I think because of all the points you've made Death's Door could really be in your domain :)
I love Dark Souls, but this one is the only one I've beaten. I guess I'm like ok at the game, not gooood, but I still love it. I think that while I nearly got tired several times, I managed to like it despite all that annoying stuff because I just enjoyed the gameplay enough to make up for nearly all its shortcomings.
I'm a huge souls fan and yes the run back has always sucked, yes the capra demon fight and the bed of chaos fights are poorly designed, you are entirely fair in these opinions. I will tell you what I think you are missing, it's not that you need to get good you just lack the appropriate amount of masochism, we enjoy the pain, the struggle, and the sadness. We revel in the struggle and the fight almost more so then the victory. Dark souls helped me through tough times in my life because our real life struggles will never be as hopeless and meaningless in real life as they are in the game, because we can change things in real life but in dark souls, we are truly doomed, no matter how we struggle the quests we do or the people we save it all ends the same and I at least enjoy that struggle regardless of the futility of it all.
See you gotta say I here dude, some people are masochistic with the game. I'm one of them don't get me wrong, but like not everyone is.
I played through DS1 after playing Elden Ring and Sekiro and I personally was pretty underwhelmed. I think for its time the game is great but the newer fromsoft installments have improved on it in many quality of life ways that show how needlessly tedious the original can be. The constant boss runbacks, attacks bouncing off walls, no fast travel for the first half, clunkier movement, enemy spam in tight corridors, and gimmicky bosses were many of the frustrating elements that the game forced me to get used to before I could start to enjoy it. On top of that there are other bigger and smaller issues like the systems kind of just being weird (upgrading, durability, hollow form, covenants and bonfire kindling) or weaker areas of the second half. I will say once I got acclimated (maybe half way throughish) I did start to enjoy it more and I thought all the content of the DLC was pretty good. It's a shame the game had to end with Gwyn who was a pretty bad boss fight though considering how good the dlc bosses were right before him. Also I absolutely hated capra demon and had a similar experience to you.
Ok, so... the mage class is easy mode IF you already have some idea of how the times and hit boxes of the game works. Also once you discover that locking your camera is kind of a trap the game gets a lot more easy
I really get where you are coming from, because a good chunk of me really also hated the game early on and still get very, very salty playing every installment up to elden ring. I continued to play it out of spite, and suddenly was stockholm syndromed my way into enjoying them. Still, sometimes you really have to take some breaks and pauses, because they can make you incredibly salty. And I get the "having enough time to play it" point, because if I wasn't on vacation, with lots of free time when I first picked up soulsborne, I really don't know if I would have really been sequestred by it like I was.
Having put the time though, and once you got the "hang" of it , even if you are not the 0.1% of pro-players of folks that enojy even doing challange runs for a living, there are parts of the game that really can hook you up. I really enjoy the level design, the bosses themselves and the world that you play in.
And that all being said though, I get where you come from in the sense of making the mistake of picking sorcerer as the first class. I firmly belive that magic is "easy" for you if you already know the game, for a second of third playthrough, so you know which stats to invest, what items to get and where to get the stronger spells. For a first or second run, I really recommend being a turtle with a halberd (that you can get early on) to poke, you can withstand much more damage from the bosses, learn their patters to dodge, and give reliable damage constantly without counting on the limited spells and so forth.
Once you know more of the game, where to get the stronger spells and so forth though, picking magic user really feels different, beign able even to one-shot some bosses, it is an "easy" mode for those that aleady are familiar with the game in general.
That being said though, if the game made you hate it and not wanting to continue, there is no reason to scourge yourself through it again, but maybe some other time your mood may change and you can give it another shot, or give the other entries a chance as well, perhaps some of the others might be more of your cup of tea (for instance, DS1 is the only one I really HATE entire areas like blightown and tomb of the giants), and elden ring, despite having much more aggressive and difficult bosses, have more tools for you to practice and learn the game, from spirit ashes to stakes of marika (that act like bonfires before the bosses so you don't waste time on the runbacks).
As a "ok" DS1 player I really think that the lack of time was the issue. DS1 gets easier, the more you experiment and explore. There is no challenge if you combine all aviable options.
I honestly think that good players have a bad influence on newcomers.
Furthermore I agree with the statement, that DS1 is more of an adventure game or even a metroidvenia.
I would not recommend anyone to speedrun a soulslike game. That you didn´t find the shortcut to the capra demon yourself speaks volumes about how linear you approach this style of games.
The "how long to beat" website tells a average of about 60h for a first and full playthrough. I was not the best player and back then it took me more than 70h over like half a year
Generally speaking there are three types of fun: 1. Fun in the moment and in retrospect.
2. Not Fun while in the moment but Fun in retrospect
3. Not Fun in the moment nor in retrospect.
I always assumed Dark Souls to be the third.
darksouls is a game that doesn't respect your time, and our time is the most precious thing that we have in this world🌎
From what I hear,Sekiro could suite your combat style more and is definetly faster than the other souls-likes. But it is by most people seen as the hardest souls-like there is,so idk of it would be so great
I'm with you with all your points, yes I love the soul series I have played multiple 1000 of hours in the different games, but all you say is true. When there released the DS1 remake, I was hyped to be able to play it on my pc. I bought it, played it and finished it once and then never batted it up again. Since DS1, Souls Games (including Elden Rind/Bloodborne) have changed drastically.
It's not that the old games were bad games, but more that there are bad games today because of how gaming has changed.
I think anyone that's wants to try out Souls games should go with the newest release from From Software.
I hope that this bad experience isn't stopping you from checking out the newer games.
The beauty this game had when it released was, that it was a game that wasn't holding your hand. There were games in that time, that would ask if you want to automatically finish a level because you died 4 or 5 times. The feeling of really accomplishing something because you struggled and at one point succeeded was not there in other games. Since then, gaming has found a good middle ground that didn't exist back then. With that change in games, the soul games have changed and are amazing games because of the love that gets put into it. Not just being a cash grab for the company, but something there can be proud of.
i would never recommend someone starting with DS1 its old its clunky and unpolished. Sadly you got put into that game, because of a freinds nostalgia, i think you should just pick up elden ring or DS3 never touch DS1 or even DS2. And dont listen to this git gud people.
I want to enjoy this genre. Everything about it from the dark fantasy setting to the combat is appealing to me. And that's why I HATE the soulslike genre! I'm a casual gamer and I want to enjoy my games. NOT get pissed off and frustrated at every single corner because of the set difficulty! I want more games like this, but NOT hard games! Why is that such an impossible task?
I would honestly suggest Elden Ring. That is the most accessible Fromsoft game it my opinion. You have access to stealth, ranged combat is way more useful, there are more weapons, really good combat spells, and some really powerful builds, as well as Spirit summons to help out. Also the coop scene is still fairly active, so jolly cooperation is often available for a roadblock.
The game is still difficult, so it still may not be for you, but my non-gamer wife learned it despite having a full-time job and only having Stardew Valley as experience. Yes, it can be frustrating at times, but it can also be incredibly fun to explore the world, read the little lore blurbs on items, and overcome challenges by knowledge and tactics.
Elden Ring especially tries to teach you early on with the Tree Sentinel and Margit that if a boss is too hard right now, go explore the map to get stronger and find better gear.
I have like, almost four hundred hours poured into this game, and over one hundred in two, three, elden ring, and at least three hundred in prepare to die edition
i really understand your opinion on the game. ive played Elden ring and dark souls i really hate some of the dark souls mechanics, butelden ring is a whole different game, its more forgiving, more accesable, has cooler weapons and you can level up as much as you want due to its open world before taking on the har dbosses, and there are almost no runbacks. Dark souls is good if you want to git gud or suffer, and can be fun, but its really a dick. i hope you dont get discouraged from trying games like this, becaouse many souls games can be really fun, even on a more casual basis level. And ignore those dumb "git gud" people. I like getting good at bosses, but most dark souls 1 bosses are really jank and at least im not gatekeeping p´layers from having fun. Id be really interested in seeing you play Elden ring.
Magic can trivialize Dark souls, but for that to be the case you need to know what you are doing.
And i do not mean putting hours into the game and "git gud", i mean knowing how scaling works, what rings work(i.e. bellowing dragoncrest ring) or knowing that, although it is a miracle power within is very useful whatever your build is.
But that also implies knowing how to get it so not really feasible on the first playthrough without someone telling you, or you having combed through blight town which every noobie hate with a passion.
Same thing with weapon infusion(making your weapon scale with your preferred stat), or the fact that dusk crown boost all spell/miracle dmg, not even considering that the spells which can trivialize the game are very few, mainly dark bead in the dlc or the spells big hat logan gives you at the end of his quest(again not feasible without someone telling you how to).
Imo you would have had a better time getting the sweihander that is next to the skeletons just below firelink or any other melee weapon.
You would have had to git gud(not like you didn't have to using magic), but that does not mean having great reflexes or great skills, it means use your head, do not give in to frustration, learning how to dodge takes precedence over dealing damage in boss fights(beside capra demon or bed of chaos) and worst case scenario wear the heaviest armor you have and poise trade through the game.
The low damage would not have been a problem with just a single weapon to upgrade, with normal titanite, without having to worry about magic infusion, which also brings split dmg to the table, which is another mess.
TLDR the person that told you that magic makes the game easier either did not know you were a noob or they didn't know what they're talking about
That being said, nobody likes boss runs, especially the bed of chaos' one.
And while it is kind of obvious that DS is not for everyone, i do not believe you need great skills or time investment to make it not that frustrating. You just need to learn the many secret handshakes of fromsoftware, and tbf i believe you did learn them and if you ever come back to it you'll have a better time, and by a lot.
Now good luck with ds2(i assume you have the "scholar of the first sin" edition).
I bet my left nut you'll enjoy that gank fest even less, go play one of the good ones mate, be it bloodborne, ds3, sekiro or elden ring, but if you are already struggling liking the game, ds2 is the worst choice you can make imo.
10:23 Were you? Because this 10:10 "live reaction to that information" doesn't feel like a fury to me. You are happy and giddily shit talking the boss you just beat while peaking the mic.
I am a soulslike fan but I understand what you mean. First of all I am sorry to hear that some soulslike fans were a bit rude when you exposed your thoughts, this is not how our community usually acts; Dark Souls 1 is very criticised in the community because it is upright unfair in many situations, for example, it is stated that the arena of the Capra Demon is too tight and his dogs create a problem that goes way beyond challenge, in New Londo there is a room where the ghosts group on you from all directions making it impossible to dodge or defend all of them for they attack at once, the bonfires are indeed too far from the bosses in many times, the game has a slow combat wich is part of Dark Souls' identity but the control's response indeed aged poorly and I personally had a problem with some bosses where I dodged the attack, it landed in other place, and I still got damage from it regardless, in Dark Souls 1 I often feel like the game cheated on me. Fromsoftware admited these problems and improved in these areas in the next games to make them challenging but not unfair, my introduction to soulslike games was Dark Souls 3 and I can tell you almost all of these issues were solved by that point, the game is very hard but it doesn't cheat. If my first Soulslike game was Dark Souls 1 I would possibly have a very simmilar impression to your. About other issues you mentioned, the story is told by the item descriptions, it is fragmented through them, a soulslike tradition, so you have to gather the fragments of intel and mount the puzzle of the lore; it is more than ok to not enjoy it but for me at least it gives what I can only explain as "thrill of the investigation", joining the pieces of lore and having to think how they fit with each other to assemble the puzzle is like a side quest that at least I like very much, but there are many videos explaining it if you don't. On the exploration, it is one of the main things in the game, opening all the doors, going all the paths you find, "sticking your nose where you were not invited" is the core of soulslike gameplay and ambience, for it helps you with the roleplay of being a "chosen" undead having to fight your way in a land you've never been before in search of accomplishing your mission, it gives a sense of adventure and a fear of going somewhere not knowing what dangers await you there, this can be applied to all soulslike games. About dealing so little damage to the bosses, it is because of your class, I dealt three to four times more damage to many of those bosses as a knight who leveled up my strenght a lot and also it is important to go to the blacksmith and upgrade your weapons with Titanite you farm from enemies or buy. Finally about the sense of accomplishment, I still felt a lot of it in Dark Souls 1 maybe precisely because having other soulslike games to compare it - specially Dark Souls 3 - I knew that this game was not hard, it was just ridiculous of unfair, and when even though the game shown me the middle finger and cheated all the way through I still grabbed the bull by the horns and beat the final boss and finished the game I felt even more empowered. If you give Dark Souls 3 a chance or Bloodborne - wich has a faster paced combat wich you mentioned you enjoy - I think you might change a bit your mind about hard soulslike games.
comments here are gonna be hell because you dared to have an opinion on a souls game
Your criticisms of the long ass run backs for bosses are 100% true and almost every SoulsBorne fan would agree with that. Also your criticism about The Bed of Chaos is also 100% fair and everyone would agree Bed of Chaos is THE if not one of the worst boss fights in SoulsBorne history hell even video game history. To answer your question why people love Dark Souls so much and why it started it's whole own genre that has become such a massive phenomenon... there was just absolutely nothing like it in 2011. The way the world inter connects and flows so amazingly makes it so fun to explore and discover and is done in such a way that had never really been seen before the way that every area links back to Firelink Shrine is just masterful game and level design I think anyone can see that even someone who hates the game. The other reason Dark Souls took off from my point of view is clearly the boss fights. I'm sorry but after playing every Souls game I've come to the realization that boss fights in other games just suck in comparison. Dark Souls redefined how to design a boss fight even some of the 'worst' fights makes boss fights in other games look like nothing and simple in comparison even as early as Dark Souls 1 the 2nd ever SoulsBorne game and the fights just get better and better over time as FromSoft perfect the boss fight formula. But the level design is what makes Dark Souls specifically unique though.
All that being said you don't have to like everything that everyone else does we all have different tastes and that's okay if everyone agreed on everything and liked the same things life would be pretty boring. Great video!
I typically recommend newbies start with DS3, though, elden ring is generally the easiest souls game. From what it sounds like, and what I saw, you need to adapt to the souls play style, it takes time, and patience. It also looked like you may’ve spec’d your class poorly, it may’ve been better to lean harder to sorceries, or towards a knight build, trying to balance them can be really tricky, and I’d recommend it for a second or third play through. Also, it looked like you stuck with the basic sorceries, I would hope you got the higher tier spells, they help a lot.
It is tempting to just say git gud, but I know that can be tiring to hear. My first playthrough of a souls game took me 120hrs, and a few months. It’s never easy for anyone their first time around, or even their second. I’ve played and beaten most of the souls games multiple times, it gets easier with experience. The boss runs are grueling, the later games aren’t nearly as bad there.
For me, a lot of the enjoyment comes from seeing that I can overcome incredible challenges, and have a clear measure of my progress, seeing my skill go up. The bosses feel easier, but, if you slip up, they will remind you what game you are playing, and humble you quickly.
I’d encourage you to try another souls game, try DS3, or if you want a very different feel, try elden ring. Take your time, and know patience is often the best weapon.
I would also personally recommend skipping out on the summons. It doesn’t feel the same, beating a boss you’ve struggled with, dying a dozen times or more, when you summon in help, for me, it feels, Hollow.
Regardless, good luck, and hope to see you try out, and enjoy, another souls game.
Dark Souls is a rock solid foundation with a somewhat shaky final build.
I don't think you did yourself any favours picking a starting class that didn't work for your playstyle, and it doesn't do new players any favours by being as punishing as it is.
There's a point at which all the mechanics finally click into place, whether it be the bosses movepool or the statistics, and this is where most souls fans derive their pleasure.
Is about running into that brick wall and realising a hammer is better than a saw, not necessarily getting through the wall with a butt er knife.
I love the concept of Dark Souls more than I love the game itself, but I do still consider it a flawed masterpiece, and if you give in and play by its very precise rules, it can be a very rewarding experience.
For me, the peak of the series is still Bloodbourne. Its a lot more snappy and leans a lot more into my play style than Dark Souls does. I still need to play Sekiro, but it's a Fromsoft game. I need to find a suitable month to dedicate to it.
From the footage and your commentary, I think these might be more up your street. Same punishment, different tools to overcome it
The worst part of dark souls is the mainstream culture that makes everyone think that DS is a hard as fucking rageing indulging game😢
Bc as seen, it realy consolidates it as such
I would've recommended Dark Souls 2, mechanically, it's the most polished form of Dark Souls 1 gameplay. Because DS3 is basically Bloodborne with a dark souls sticker on top and Dark Souls is... woof, oh boy, it's showing it's age as both it being as old as it is and being the second in its series.
I'm sure a lot of people in the souls community would crucify me for even thinking something along like this, but at this point I really feel like Dark Souls 1 is probably one of the worst entry points for anyone new to the series. I wouldn't necessarily say any of the others are easier, but I feel like every other souls game besides Demon's Souls is at least more approachable.
agreed
Nah man, as a souls vet, I totally agree. It is one of the least accessible games.
Demon Souls Remake would be my recommendation as a starting point, but it's obviously subjective. The bosses don't exactly exist in comparison to each other in that game.
With challenging video games, the "GIT GUD crowd" should consider a comparison to Sports... or Call of Duty Pro-level Competitive Gameplay.
To properly enjoy yourself and continue to improve, the path to becoming a pro requires a lot of patience. You must be met with the appropriate level of challenge. You might improve "faster" by facing extremely tough opponents, but you will be demoralized to the point where you simply don't play anymore.
FromSoft titles have "good" difficulty pacing, but not "perfect." When it comes to build variety, it's all over the place.
Your criticisms are fair and justified but i believe these frustrations come from playing the first Dark Souls lol. This game is OLD and was kinda made without the guidelines later games were made with (yeah demon souls came first but that game has... issues.) You mentioned not having too much trouble with Sen's Fortress which gives me the impression that its necessarily just that you're having trouble with the games difficulty. Sen's Fortress beat me to a pulp even after I had beaten Elden Ring, and I still haven't beaten Dark Souls 1. I don’t want you to walk away from this game misunderstanding Souls-likes, so I beg you, play Elden Ring. It's a much bigger game yes, but I think you'll enjoy it a lot more. There's wayyy more exploration aspect and a lot of the time if you're hung up on a challenge, you can always go somewhere else to gain resources or get stronger. On top of that, the "Boss Runs" (run backs to the boss after dying that you justifiably complained about) are super toned down. Most boss fights have a psuedo checkpoint outside them, and I think overall the bosses are better designed. The game will still be extremely difficult, but its a better example of Souls-difficulty that people enjoyed and what caused people to love the genre as much as they have. It's not the unfair difficulty that turned you off of the first game, it's a challenge that actually feels highly rewarding and will give you the means necessary to practice and overcome said challenge.
I started with Dark Souls 3. I feel like I like souls-likes, but I've had no interest in playing Dark Souls 1...
Why is that if I may ask?
@@endersparshott from everything I've seen, it just seems like it would feel clunky. And I know myself well enough that I get unreasonable angry if I feel a death wasn't my fault... so why put myself through it? DS3 was hard enough.
Knowledge is power. It's kinda like fighting games, it's very niche, but frames, timings and little mechanics like that are vastly more important here than other games. Git gud is one thing (I'm not very dextrous or have agile fingers) but knowing how stuff works is perhaps more important.
I think you might enjoy Sekiro, given it has a lot less runback before bosses (usually like a minute or two max) and is a lot more fast paced and snappy, as you put it. Elden Ring also fixes many of your frustrations, but it was still a bit slow for my taste.
game recommendation just because I think it would be funny to mention on a dark souls video of all things:
kingdom hearts
Some people really enjoy the challenge, or just dropping their balls into a meat grinder. It's not for everybody, and that's okay. I came into Elden Ring from Monster Hunter, never touched a souls game before, and it is beating my entire ass inverted, but I keep coming back every few days because 1) kinda hate myself a little bit, and 2) I hate that runebear that came outta nowhere and wrecked me more, so now I gotta keep going until I can kill it
But for real, might be worth giving monster hunter a try, the combat is still the slower combat style, but it's... faster? more responsive? It's kinda unfair to compare the games beyond that, but it can give you that sense of accomplishment of beating a difficult enemy without all the slogging through minions
i have been writing and re-writing this comment a lot. i wanted to give a lot of pointers and express my opinions on a lot of things that i think soured your experience a lot.
that being said i realised i can do something better. i can try to give you an opinion on why souls games took off, because i realise that yes, from an outside perpective that seems insane.
i will also try to be as succint as possible, pardon me if if i fail.
dark souls is in my opinion an exploration game. and not just of the map. the fun is in trying new weapons, learning how the stats affect your controls, and figuring ways not to beat a speciffic boss, but to make your battles overall easier. experimenting with the game, as you would with a sandbox is kind if the fun.
of course, the game itself doesn't really make you want to do that. it is punishing in a way that scares people off from trying new things. case and point, you being stuck as a mage.
there's a lot of rewarding secrets that you can find by goofing around in the game, taking it slow and enjoying your ride through. also, finding ways to skip long walks or to cheese bosses is very cathartic. it also helps with combat to be a bit more slow and methodical. i too enjoy fast paced responsive combat, but getting in the flow with this more slow zen-like combat is fun in a way i cannot really explain.
but i think the most important thing is, like you said, time. you were rushing trough it, worried that you need to put out a video on it. always frustrated that you didn't make much progress, forcing yourself to bang your head agains a wall until the wall gave in, instead of finding a way around it. and i will admit, the first game is rough around the edges and requires some head-wall banging, but i think having the responsability to show progress did make your experience worse.
this game isn't really meant to be played and finished, but more...experienced. you have to be in the right headspace for it. and for some people, that is a lightining in a bottle type of deal. but a lot of people persevered, tried again and again, had that momment where it all clicks and got addicted to this formula.
there's also the artistic appeal to the game. it's lore, although hard to absorb due to vague and hard to find crumbs of information, is quite addicting, tragically beautifull and i think most importantly, woven completly into the base concepts of the game. its is a game and story about hope. giving up or persevering. harship. pain, and dealing with it.
in the end, i think my ramblings might not convey the beauty of this old rough and messy game as much as the latter, more pollished entries in the franchise might, but the truth is, dark souls isn't for everyone.
it is a plot point even in game, how the undead eventually go hollow. you giving up on the game would have been a fine way to finish it. not as an undead who rekindled the flame, but one who didn't see the point and decided to forgo the pointless journey and just go hollow.
git good has become a mean meme, but it's the best advice for this game. there's no secret to beating it and enjoying it. you just have to try again and get better. not necesarly through skill, but through knowladge. and while i don't think having to pull up a wiki is good game design, there's no shame in looking up things online when the game gets too tough.
i kinda believe playing dark souls 2 will make you think i'm insane for saying things like this, since that game can be even more frustrating at times, but i hope you persevere in spite of that.
there's no guarantee you'll ever enjoy dark souls. but if you give up on playing, then it's a guarantee you never will.
It's weird to me that a game taking time means that the game isn't good. This is a game aboit taking it slow and looking around and thinking, it is not a quick game and everyone knows that before getting into it at this point.
If that isnt your kind of game then fine, but the long boss run-backs lend a massive amount to the atmosphere and they're there to give you moments of reflection, to help you learn the levels, to give you time to consider alternative strategies for the boss. The very fact you called it mindless shows how it clearly isnt for you. Your first DS1 playthrough should be slow, it should take like 100+ hours to really enjoy it.
If you really take your time and travel the land you find that most bosses have an abusable weakness, you find other places to explore etc.
The long breaks in the game are a part of what makes the game so brilliantly designed. It's just a shame that people who dont havr enough time to play the game properly try playing the game and saying it's bad when it just isnt a game for them.
4 hours a week just is nowhere near right for this. Not every game is for everyone and Dark Souls is very niche. It was never meant for a mass market audience that cant dedicate time to it.
It's a hardcore JRPG for lords sake 😂
Some games are just not for everyone. And that's fine.
Not surprised you hated the experience, it's a try hard's wet dream, a challenge lovers fantasy, and generally okay for people who run the middle ground. But sadly casual's will suffer because it requires a lot of dedication, memorization, and deep minmaxing. Not a bad thing per-say, just bad for your breed of gamer, and for the record there's nothing wrong with being a casual, we sweaty types might be 'better' at some games, but we're also uptight jackassses that can't relax and just have fun loosing
Ugh, as a tryhard it sometimes fucking sucks.
I remember playing a tower defense game where you had 50 lives and the game was balanced around it. I saw it as a failure if I got hit once. Took me ages to complete the game. Fun because I felt achieved but holy shit, also often frustrating. I wish I could see 49/50 and go "good enough".
The attitude sucks for a lot of games honestly but for Dark Souls it's bloody perfect.
I completed Dark Souls once by only using ripostes where possible. Lot of fun.
Idk dude, everyone thinks about and experiences the game a little differently. There are tons of casual souls players out there. Most of us are just a little quieter in the community.
The game rewards exploration 80% of the time, there is a shortcut to the boss that cuts down the boss run significantly.
Sooo I was a teenager when DS came out.. but many of the at the time critical and glowing praise came from press who I assume were older then me. then again gaming press has the job of playing games soo they probably have more time to dig into it then i did.
but when these games are **new** I mean like new new.. the "git gud" attitude held less weight.
fuckin you didn't even mention him but the most memorable bit from the early dark souls 1 hype was solair, the guy that gives you the item to summon help and his saying of "jolly cooperation"
a core game mechanic is leaving hints for other people, hell even if the online is dead a lot bosses have npc allies baked in that you can find to help you. **especially as a caster** because they can take the heat off. in fact the spider lady you were showing footage of when you were mentioning bosses that don't give you room to breathe has one.
some people mention difficulty settings and the fans who don't just resort to saying "get gud" will instead say you can .... change what part of the game is difficult. that's what being a spellcaster is about. some enemies have pathing or gaps you can exploit as a caster. others have patterns you can learn to roll as a meelee and wail on their backsides for a while.. and you could always summon someone to help you. the invisible walls and secrets were like another thing that made going to the wiki or reddit and finding guides part of the experience.
fucks sake you need a guide to access the DLC chapter in this game because it's hidden behind killing an enemy in the forest, meeting an npc, then killing an enemy in the archives for an item that you bring back to this little empty alcove in the forest. there was a lot more helping each other as the focus. this was also the heyday of full let's play video series on youtube. soo people were watching each other play through the game along side them. using videos to learn about builds, where to find weapons, figuring out the lore how to get the other ending.
annnd the exploration was also a part of it.. often getting walled by the first hit of a boss and leaving ment you could stumble on a shortcut or new area or bonfire elsewhere in the level.
uhh people with better senses of direction than me had a lot of fun building that mental map of how the burg connects to everything.
the level and boss design takes a turn when you're in the lord section as well. once you beat ornstein and smough the later areas have like less exploration to do, the demon zone is blatantly unfinished the bed of chaos boss you talked about was directly a subject of an apology by the director.
having your damage fall off and feel unsatisfying suuuuuuucks and without a guide to point you towards the better wands or spells will make that feel worse.. especially when it's more often you'll find better meelee weapons.
and that kinda hampers that flow of trying a boss dodging an attack that killed you last time and getting into a rhythm with it.
practicing the fight like you mentioned. and it sucks when it feels like that practice isn't paying off because your damage is bad or you're not retaining it because you're also having to deal with the runback.
Watching you play it kinda shines a light on a lot of it's flaws and fans should be familiar with those flaws not dismissive of them.
because yours is the new player experience.
if there's a chance to shine a better light on the series for you it's suggesting exploring more and seeking more help when you need.
blind playthroughs are fun but when these came out everyone was asking for help with everything from exploring the levels to beating the fights to figuring out what the fuck was going on.
Dark souls is way better (for me) if you take it as a exploring experience, its a world to discover and explore, a place to take some time alone and to reflect on what everything should or could mean. I think that this "chalenge hard ass game" isn't realy what Dark souls is about. The hole game is a metaphor or like a poetry if your are not found of lore, mitology and foreingn culture Dark souls becamo only a hard chalenge.... and it is not that, not only that.
You have many very W takes I’d like to add nuance to. In short, Dark souls is just _jank_ - a half-finished work of passion forced out the door by its publisher.
* Dark Souls is egregiously slow. I believe the developers were trying instead for _deliberate_ , which it _is_ despite being mired in lethargy. Everything feels like moving through molasses. From Soft will realize “deliberateness” better and better with each following game.
* Whatever From Soft intended with the Bed of Chaos, they get an F for execution.
* Capybara is the laziest shit ever (copy paste 3 mobs, put it in an unfair location, slap a health bar on it).
* Boss run-backs are a contentious topic. Some see the run-back as kind of “part of the boss”, and so mastering a boss entails mastering the run-up _to_ the boss. Were the bosses any more mechanically complex, this would not work at all. In subsequent titles, run-backs become shorter and shorter, and usually scale inversely to the difficulty or complexity of the boss. By Elden Ring, run-backs go on the endangered list.
* I’m betting you one-shot the Four Kings, because otherwise you would have felt compelled to mention the closest bonfire is fucking _Firelink Shrine_. Like yeah, there’s an obvious diegetic reason for there to be no bonfires, but come _on_…
You should play bloodborne if you have a ps4/5. It’s different from the others and more fast paced. Also my favorite game of all time.
Bro plays terraria but can't FATHOM the idea of dark souls 👁👄👁
I am confusion 😮
I think the boss with the ''shields'' is pretty disliked. I could be wrong though