I was an Ahri main for many seasons purely just because I love the champion (and it still is one of my go to picks as she is very blindable in soloq) but I think I started learning most about the game and importance of mid lane as a whole was when i started playing Orianna, Syndra and Neeko as they have so many things to take into account - wave clear, spacing, outplay potential, prio, overall laning and trading pattern, teamfighting and flanking, itemization, positioning, which all really show your knowledge about the game the more you play. After playing enough on those 3, i had much easier time controling different things when I do go back on Ahri. A very helpful video though!
Thanks so much for this. When i first asked for such a video i didn't expect you to take the time to actually do it... but i stand corrected. Again: huge thanks
I agree with most things especially orianna i belive a insane orianna can be one of the most oppressive champs in the game while a medicore one is just some random mage, but i belive that syndra is way easier and should be at viktors level simply cause of her range beeing that high that its quite easy for her to space around without getting into any danger
Hello Shok,I am a big fan of your videos(im currently busy climbing with the help of your midlane fundamentals playlist)Just wanted to show my gratitude of your videos.Keep it up!
53:45 the main problem with Viktor imo is that you can very easily get used to oneshotting the wave with E augment and getting push for free and it also doesn’t really test your skill shots (E is more depending on your aim than enemy movement) so it builds like a bad habit of not needing solid wave management due to the ease at which you can perm-shove in mid game
The crazy thing that always impresses me about you is the sheer wealth of knowledge you have. I had played Vladimir as my main for ranked and the specific things you mentioned he gets away with and you wouldn't really learn are the things holding me back now on my climb on Oriana (who happens to be your favorite) and i can feel it. There are so many issues in my gameplay that have been brought to my attention since this ranked split and im drastically improving from it. Thanks for the quality content as always!
Now that Hwei is out, where would you put him? Something I thought about while watching this video is that the champs you rank higher generally need a well constructed plan for the laning phase. For example, if I'm learning Akali or Sylas and I'm facing Lissandra - if Liss Q's the wave, I can take a trade. Or if her W is down, I can take a trade. The lower a champion gets on the tier list, the less you need to plan around interacting with the enemy.
returned to this vid to hear more thoughts on Ahri after I heard Coach Curtis from BBC change his mind about Ahri and what learning the game is like with her. Personally as a low elo Ahri main when I have attempted to try and learn wave management which is a fundamental I have longed to learn I always run into a wall because she is usually a neutralise or push and roam champ!
My man, usually not writing comments or interacting anyway on YT anyway, but you are one of the few gold mines the plattform has to offer in the League scene. The Competence you present is worth a lot, a mix of theory and a lot of expirience in SoloQ and Proplay. Crazy Thankful for you giving us so much networth without asking for anything. You could prolly get a lot of money, like srsly a lot of money with these educational videos. An idea some people use is Patreon. Have you thought about that ? Id supscripe defenitely. As an starting idea, how about you take one midlane champ a week closer under inspection? Now that i think about it, you also give us Full Champion Indepth guides... Man you are crazy worth. Thank you very much for the effort and appreciation for the game man! Keep it up
Hey Shok, a big question. Through your videos we get which champions are good for learning the game but could you make a video or explain better what's the process to using those champions to learn? Is it watching your own vods to spot mistakes or just learning from being punished and losing games, what's important to keep in mind so you can learn while playing them?
I watched your laning fundamentals video and that helps a lot too but sometimes I wonder if there's more I could do retrospectively! Thank you for considering it! Love your content
YES, I alway say to my friends that Orianna is THE pick to learn mid lane, the champion kit in itself it's not that difficult, but you have to be so good at every fundamental for it to work that makes it really hard to play her
Never been this early, I just wanted to say that i love your guides ALL of them are very helpful and i really appreciate them. Thank for your hard for and keep on making them❤
for me as a orianna player i wasn't able to learn lots of mid before ziggs. i think his safe and fast farm with high damage and low CD lets me think, remember and do stuff like playing towards my jungler and vision, keeping much better track of enemy jungler, noticing my other lanes situations like if they will get dive or enemy support is missing.... i can go talk all day about it but as i experienced after only playing 5 games of him, i think ziggs is much better to learn lots of stuff and after mastering those, move on to other champs. btw thank you for the list. You are amazing
learned mid through syndra, ori, akali, and katarina (lol). Orianna is still the #1 to learn with for me, but I think supplementing her with an aggressive pick like syndra is important, unless you're proactively forcing yourself to play more aggressive with ori than you might need to - ori is much better at minimizing early and still winning than syndra imo. Both syndra and ori will force you to learn how to assert your presence in lane, but with syndra you are punished much harder for being passive. On the other hand, ori does teach you how to deal with more even/losing mage matchups, which I think makes her edge syndra out due to transferability.
Great vid! Maybe Pantheon guide time? :D Also maybe there is something you could guide me with. I am a control mage main (Viktor, Orianna, Azir) and I feel like also I'm quite decent at playing melee vs ranged, but melee vs melee is something I totally struggle with. These matchups are the least generalisable as you said in laning vid, but maybe you have or could do something that helps with improving at that? I was also thinking about watching some toplane educational content for that and also because it's my 2nd role in soloq and I'm always completely clueless about how to open it and play the lane.
I honestly think with melee vs melee you just need to go watch the vods on YT after you play the matchup. E.g. you play Akali vs Sylas and regardless of how it goes you just look it up after and overtime you slowly build up knowledge of all the different matchups. You could watch toplane content as well, although the wave control and the wave you open lanes is very different top lane (lots of 3 wave crashes into proxying or cheater recalling)
Hi Shok, revisiting this video after some time. I'm pretty much exclusively a mage player, so I think it'd be wise to learn the game from the perspective of an assassin. Could you please elaborate a little on to why you'd favour akali over the other melees? You've helped make my climb far more easy and fluid than it would have been otherwise, appreciate it:)
I like Akali becaue she plays the game "by the rules" as opposed to some of the melees like Kat or Talon that can just give up on laning phase and run around the map killing people
Hey shok, i want to become (hopefully) a pro player someday and if i have being pro as a goal, do you think its better to one trick until i get to a higher rank or to already start building up the habit to play multiple champions (im emerald rn)
As an akali main i have alot of problem with warding defensevly cuz of shroud, thats why i would put sylas higher in the melee class cuz you have to track the jungler way more
I thought about that, but I think a lot of the time Akali will be using shroud aggressively so it's not like you're always holding it in case of getting ganked. I agree Sylas is a bit more vulnerable though
I think that Vlad is S tier just for the mental aspect of not tillting until you get your 3 item spike and watching your team int while you can't do anything. Transfers into all other champs and if you go Mejai's you will learn to not die because of throwing entire games as yourself is painfull as hell.
Hey shok, great video really helping me trying to define my champ pool. I wanted to ask a question on what are your thoughts on another midlaner education youtuber, coach curtis? Do ya'll agree or disagree. What are your thoughts?
Hi Shok! No matter of one's role - incredibly fruitful content. Thanks a lot! Please, keep it up. One of the best league channels on RUclips. I also have a question - could you please recommend an ADC champion to learn fundamentals in the same fashion? I thought, Caitlyn(difficult but possible)/Varus/Ashe might be good candidates. I will appreciate any help. Thanks!
this is a great vid idea imo, and this might be controversial but I think the content would appreciate if you did this as kind of a second take. your thoughts are amazing but starting the video without knowing how the tierlist is going to end up looking gives you less time to think about what you want to say, and that time could be better spent elaborating on points. i.e. better to spend time thinking about how you want to say something vs what you're going to say. just my opinion, love the videos!
I agree with you on all of this, i am maining ahri but not enjoying her neutralizing playstyle, after climbing ot emerqld and having stopped hard carrying game due to skill gap not being as noticeable (among common mistakes) i found out that this is how you should play ahri and im not adapting well. Syndra ahri pool qnd i would like to put one more. Maybe im going for pantheon. Cheers i love your videos.
I feel that the judgement on Lux is definitely too harsh. I mean, yeah, you can jusy wave clear with E and R, but that puts a certain toll on your mana and early on your R CD isn't 30 secs. Without R, you lose a big part of your damage in case of 2vs2 and thus the ability to turn a skirmish around early dragona/Herald. Plus, she IS AN immobile mage, it's really easy to be out of position on Lux and just die to anything. If we consider that she can be played to essentially don't interact with the opponent I guess that she can't be above low B, but below Fizz and his Assassin cheese of winning every trade against ranged champs by virtue of having so much damage? Lux has lots of the weaknesses of mages, while Fizz is an absurdly strong early game assassin unlike many
I can't agree. While Lux is immobile, she has 3 abilities with self peel and massively long range. Fizz definitely is not an absurdly strong early game assassin, he loses pretty heavily 1v1 to some champs and is more picked for 2v2/ganksetup
hey shok! im pretty much a lux mid otp since season 6 as a casual player (maybe around 7 hours per week of playing). whenever i switch to other champions im soooo much worse than with lux. can you recommend a champ for further improving, when someone has lux as best champ and wants to improve?
hmm imo ahri would be a decent champ to try, sorta has elements of lux's safety but is slightly more punishing so could be a first step towards learning other champs
The video is confusing. Let me explain, it feels hard following your logic on how you define for who's best for "improving" in a champ class. One example is Talon vs Zed -- How you praise Zed to be better at improving fundamentals across the assassin class feels weird. With the ranged shadow gimmicks, super safe untargetable assassinations, and the equal random snowball chances in lane. I am not sure how the other assassins fall so short on the tier list or how Zed isn't down there with them. There's this feeling that there's too many nuances for a giant list like this. I would vote to see this tier list broken down by class.
Agreed. I would also put Akshan minimum A tier (if not S) because he requires a lot of knowledge of the game to actually be useful or contribute positively, as he's a mid laner with basically no utility unlike most mid laners and has to make up for it in other ways. Some examples include aggressive laning, spacing/kiting (especially in team fights), roaming, etc.
I think Zed is much more transferrable to other champions than Talon or many of the other assassins are. Zed doesn't really have some weird mechanic to him (cheese roams like talon for example) and for the most part plays melee vs ranged in the same way other champs normally do. Obviously, he does get away with some shit due to his ability to farm with Q (which again I took away points for). I think the safety factor isn't as much as you'd think because W is your main trading ability and you're going to be using it more or less on cooldown, I don't think Zed is virtually ungankable in the same way some other mid laners are. You still have to think about where the jg/support might be. That's my opinion on it anyway, but ultimately it's subjective.
I wouldve hoped to see a melee in S tier. But I suppose you don‘t consider them to give you the true midlane experience. I agree on most of the list though.
It's more that the melees tend to be so different from each other that it's hard to choose one that'll teach you about all the rest, that's my opinion anyway
I play a lot of ryze and do way better on him than any other champs and im in silver. I think i have something like a 70% winrate on ryze but dont feel impactful even if super ahead. Ive had to focus a lot on not dying to ganks as him at least
imo Diana is just a much better jungler than mid laner, if you were to play her mid though for improvement she's probably around the mid-high B. Fairly standard ap assassin overall
Hello! I've got some questions! I've very recently transitioned to mid because of hwei, where would you put him? Will I be able to learn how mid works while I play him? And who else could I play from your tier list that will be similar to hwei and will help me understand his play style better? I'm looost😂❤
He's probably good and bad for improving, good in the sense that he is immobile and plays by a lot of traditional rules so it should test your fundamentals. Bad in that it might be hard to focus on learning mid itself if you're too overwhelmed by his kit. I'd say play him if you enjoy him but you might wanna learn something simpler like Vex/Annie alongside it just so you can focus on some midlane stuff too.
Where would you put Hwei on this list now that he's released? I've been trying to come up with a champion pool but I don't know how good Hwei is for improving and for blind picking. He's really fun so I want to play him, but I don't know how to best round out a pool featuring him. Considering three of Vex, Syndra, and Jayce.
He'd be fairly high up but not the top. He tests a lot of fundamentals which is great for learning, but because he's a difficult champion to play you're gonna spend a lot of games simply learning Hwei and being unable to focus on fundamentals. As a blind he's ok, good neutralizer but doesn't have a dash and lane phase is solid but not super strong. Your champ pool is good I think, I would try have a champ with a dash (ahri, liss etc) but you don't NEED it, just might help sometimes.
Where would you place diana? Im a diana mid otp going for diamond rn, always wondered how good this champ is for improving generally. Im playing her very team oriented, mostly fighting with a number advantage in mid-late game
I think she'd probably be near the higher end of B for me, she's actually a pretty good champ for improving. She just doesn't really get talked about mid much because there are better mid ap assassins and she's a better jungler than mid laner
He should definitely be placed at least A tier in my opinion, especially if Akali is there, who has stronger trades than Akshan. Him being in the same tier as Malzahar is so crazy to me. In general, if you don't know too much about the game then you will not be useful as Akshan (at least conpared to most other mid lane champs). Improving with him means you are improving at a lot of the core/fundamental concepts of the game.
Akali does not have stronger trades than Akshan... Akali auto loses most lanes (unless you're vs some melees) where as Akshan auto wins most of them. I don't think Akshan plays like virtually any other mid laner either, so the skills are less transferrable and it's so easy to just run around and cheese random kills with him. Honestly the most similar champ to Akshan is probably Katarina but at least Katarina doesn't have the auto winning lane phase.
hey Shok! so viktor used to be S tier but he wins lane too easily nowadays to be good for learning right? what if you just pick scaling runes to balance the scaling lanebully archetype for laning like ori and syndra?
i have been playing for about half an year now. i like to play akshan . so should i just play from s tier and slowly move towrds other champs then play akshan after i understand the fundementals and all. Could u suggest me some champs to go through to learn since i like akshan playstyle
![Natanael Cano - Amor Eterno [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EO4prCs6WpM/mqdefault.jpg)
ruclips.net/video/ioIzqsm8-fE/видео.html The other tierlist for climbing rather than improving
I was an Ahri main for many seasons purely just because I love the champion (and it still is one of my go to picks as she is very blindable in soloq) but I think I started learning most about the game and importance of mid lane as a whole was when i started playing Orianna, Syndra and Neeko as they have so many things to take into account - wave clear, spacing, outplay potential, prio, overall laning and trading pattern, teamfighting and flanking, itemization, positioning, which all really show your knowledge about the game the more you play. After playing enough on those 3, i had much easier time controling different things when I do go back on Ahri. A very helpful video though!
Thanks so much for this. When i first asked for such a video i didn't expect you to take the time to actually do it... but i stand corrected. Again: huge thanks
You're very welcome homie
I agree with most things especially orianna i belive a insane orianna can be one of the most oppressive champs in the game while a medicore one is just some random mage, but i belive that syndra is way easier and should be at viktors level simply cause of her range beeing that high that its quite easy for her to space around without getting into any danger
Hello Shok,I am a big fan of your videos(im currently busy climbing with the help of your midlane fundamentals playlist)Just wanted to show my gratitude of your videos.Keep it up!
fundamental meaning csing?
Thank you homie
@@cupidok2768check out the playlist, fundamentals range from things like CSing, Macro, back timings, drafting/champ select, etc. Good luck summoner 🔥
Awesome video! As a new player trying to learn mid lane fundamentals and build good habits, this is exactly what I was looking for
53:45 the main problem with Viktor imo is that you can very easily get used to oneshotting the wave with E augment and getting push for free and it also doesn’t really test your skill shots (E is more depending on your aim than enemy movement) so it builds like a bad habit of not needing solid wave management due to the ease at which you can perm-shove in mid game
first time i see akali this high in a tier list
The crazy thing that always impresses me about you is the sheer wealth of knowledge you have. I had played Vladimir as my main for ranked and the specific things you mentioned he gets away with and you wouldn't really learn are the things holding me back now on my climb on Oriana (who happens to be your favorite) and i can feel it. There are so many issues in my gameplay that have been brought to my attention since this ranked split and im drastically improving from it. Thanks for the quality content as always!
All good homie good luck on the climb!
I can’t wait to see coach Curtis talk about this
Would LOVE a tier list by class!
Now that Hwei is out, where would you put him?
Something I thought about while watching this video is that the champs you rank higher generally need a well constructed plan for the laning phase. For example, if I'm learning Akali or Sylas and I'm facing Lissandra - if Liss Q's the wave, I can take a trade. Or if her W is down, I can take a trade. The lower a champion gets on the tier list, the less you need to plan around interacting with the enemy.
Probably in B or C, he's difficult to play so its hard to focus on the mid lane fundamentals while you're learning him at the same time
returned to this vid to hear more thoughts on Ahri after I heard Coach Curtis from BBC change his mind about Ahri and what learning the game is like with her.
Personally as a low elo Ahri main when I have attempted to try and learn wave management which is a fundamental I have longed to learn I always run into a wall because she is usually a neutralise or push and roam champ!
Hey man, you know what video from BBC it was that Curtis was talking about.
Thanks
@@GamingXCentre Episode 169, Ahri was mentioned towards the end of the video :)
My man, usually not writing comments or interacting anyway on YT anyway, but you are one of the few gold mines the plattform has to offer in the League scene. The Competence you present is worth a lot, a mix of theory and a lot of expirience in SoloQ and Proplay. Crazy Thankful for you giving us so much networth without asking for anything. You could prolly get a lot of money, like srsly a lot of money with these educational videos.
An idea some people use is Patreon. Have you thought about that ?
Id supscripe defenitely. As an starting idea, how about you take one midlane champ a week closer under inspection?
Now that i think about it, you also give us Full Champion Indepth guides...
Man you are crazy worth.
Thank you very much for the effort and appreciation for the game man!
Keep it up
Absolutely hes crazy insightful
I do have a Patreon actually but I pretty much only upload coaching content to it. Thanks for all the kind words though
Hey Shok, a big question. Through your videos we get which champions are good for learning the game but could you make a video or explain better what's the process to using those champions to learn? Is it watching your own vods to spot mistakes or just learning from being punished and losing games, what's important to keep in mind so you can learn while playing them?
Good idea! Normally I kinda do a mix of everything, playing games and watching vods and stuff but it'd be good to make a solid video on it
I watched your laning fundamentals video and that helps a lot too but sometimes I wonder if there's more I could do retrospectively! Thank you for considering it! Love your content
my pool this season has been syndra and ori, they call me the ball handler
thats gae bro
ap varus is worth mentioning, although he is very niche pick that mostly plays like an adc, but does burst damage.
YES, I alway say to my friends that Orianna is THE pick to learn mid lane, the champion kit in itself it's not that difficult, but you have to be so good at every fundamental for it to work that makes it really hard to play her
Never been this early, I just wanted to say that i love your guides ALL of them are very helpful and i really appreciate them. Thank for your hard for and keep on making them❤
for me as a orianna player i wasn't able to learn lots of mid before ziggs. i think his safe and fast farm with high damage and low CD lets me think, remember and do stuff like playing towards my jungler and vision, keeping much better track of enemy jungler, noticing my other lanes situations like if they will get dive or enemy support is missing.... i can go talk all day about it but as i experienced after only playing 5 games of him, i think ziggs is much better to learn lots of stuff and after mastering those, move on to other champs.
btw thank you for the list. You are amazing
I needed this video so bad, thank you so much
I learned mid through cassio. I learned kiting and actually helped me not feed on adc. And my csing was something I didn't have to focus on.
Playing jayce orianna and tf made me 10 times the player i was when i was playing mostly zed
My man
learned mid through syndra, ori, akali, and katarina (lol). Orianna is still the #1 to learn with for me, but I think supplementing her with an aggressive pick like syndra is important, unless you're proactively forcing yourself to play more aggressive with ori than you might need to - ori is much better at minimizing early and still winning than syndra imo. Both syndra and ori will force you to learn how to assert your presence in lane, but with syndra you are punished much harder for being passive. On the other hand, ori does teach you how to deal with more even/losing mage matchups, which I think makes her edge syndra out due to transferability.
Really spot on with the list tbh
Great vid! Maybe Pantheon guide time? :D
Also maybe there is something you could guide me with. I am a control mage main (Viktor, Orianna, Azir) and I feel like also I'm quite decent at playing melee vs ranged, but melee vs melee is something I totally struggle with. These matchups are the least generalisable as you said in laning vid, but maybe you have or could do something that helps with improving at that? I was also thinking about watching some toplane educational content for that and also because it's my 2nd role in soloq and I'm always completely clueless about how to open it and play the lane.
I honestly think with melee vs melee you just need to go watch the vods on YT after you play the matchup. E.g. you play Akali vs Sylas and regardless of how it goes you just look it up after and overtime you slowly build up knowledge of all the different matchups. You could watch toplane content as well, although the wave control and the wave you open lanes is very different top lane (lots of 3 wave crashes into proxying or cheater recalling)
I know you think Diana is more of a jungler but can you talk about her a bit?
Copied from another comment: She'd probably be in B somewhere, fairly standard champ overall that isn't too difficult. Maybe top half of B.
hey shok! would u like to make a off meta champ gameplay to show that u can win games with every champ, as long as u know ur fundamentals?
Could be an idea
This list is a direct correlation with how useful my replacement will be when I get offroled
This tier list is how likely my mid will sac wave to help at dragon
Hi Shok, revisiting this video after some time. I'm pretty much exclusively a mage player, so I think it'd be wise to learn the game from the perspective of an assassin. Could you please elaborate a little on to why you'd favour akali over the other melees? You've helped make my climb far more easy and fluid than it would have been otherwise, appreciate it:)
I like Akali becaue she plays the game "by the rules" as opposed to some of the melees like Kat or Talon that can just give up on laning phase and run around the map killing people
Hey shok, i want to become (hopefully) a pro player someday
and if i have being pro as a goal, do you think its better to one trick until i get to a higher rank or to already start building up the habit to play multiple champions (im emerald rn)
imo I would one or two trick at first and expand your pool later
As an akali main i have alot of problem with warding defensevly cuz of shroud, thats why i would put sylas higher in the melee class cuz you have to track the jungler way more
I thought about that, but I think a lot of the time Akali will be using shroud aggressively so it's not like you're always holding it in case of getting ganked. I agree Sylas is a bit more vulnerable though
As a mid Diana main, it makes me sad not to see her placed 😅 I guess she's considered a jungler nowadays...
Yeah that was basically my reasoning as well, I feel like she's an ok mid laner just a way better jungler
I think that Vlad is S tier just for the mental aspect of not tillting until you get your 3 item spike and watching your team int while you can't do anything. Transfers into all other champs and if you go Mejai's you will learn to not die because of throwing entire games as yourself is painfull as hell.
Lmao I respect that
This guy is like a prophet. I’m an emerald fizz+Akshan OTP, everytime I play every other champ I get completely shmassshed even by like silvers
Hey shok, great video really helping me trying to define my champ pool. I wanted to ask a question on what are your thoughts on another midlaner education youtuber, coach curtis? Do ya'll agree or disagree. What are your thoughts?
Curtis has really good videos, some things I disagree on obviously but I think he's really good
Hi Shok! No matter of one's role - incredibly fruitful content. Thanks a lot! Please, keep it up. One of the best league channels on RUclips.
I also have a question - could you please recommend an ADC champion to learn fundamentals in the same fashion? I thought, Caitlyn(difficult but possible)/Varus/Ashe might be good candidates. I will appreciate any help. Thanks!
I think ashe is a really good choice
hey, i would be glad to see an video about an gamplan as assasin ( like qiyana)
this is a great vid idea imo, and this might be controversial but I think the content would appreciate if you did this as kind of a second take. your thoughts are amazing but starting the video without knowing how the tierlist is going to end up looking gives you less time to think about what you want to say, and that time could be better spent elaborating on points. i.e. better to spend time thinking about how you want to say something vs what you're going to say. just my opinion, love the videos!
Interesting though tbh... Maybe I do something like come back and visit it next year
I agree with you on all of this, i am maining ahri but not enjoying her neutralizing playstyle, after climbing ot emerqld and having stopped hard carrying game due to skill gap not being as noticeable (among common mistakes) i found out that this is how you should play ahri and im not adapting well.
Syndra ahri pool qnd i would like to put one more. Maybe im going for pantheon.
Cheers i love your videos.
I feel that the judgement on Lux is definitely too harsh.
I mean, yeah, you can jusy wave clear with E and R, but that puts a certain toll on your mana and early on your R CD isn't 30 secs. Without R, you lose a big part of your damage in case of 2vs2 and thus the ability to turn a skirmish around early dragona/Herald.
Plus, she IS AN immobile mage, it's really easy to be out of position on Lux and just die to anything.
If we consider that she can be played to essentially don't interact with the opponent I guess that she can't be above low B, but below Fizz and his Assassin cheese of winning every trade against ranged champs by virtue of having so much damage?
Lux has lots of the weaknesses of mages, while Fizz is an absurdly strong early game assassin unlike many
I can't agree. While Lux is immobile, she has 3 abilities with self peel and massively long range. Fizz definitely is not an absurdly strong early game assassin, he loses pretty heavily 1v1 to some champs and is more picked for 2v2/ganksetup
hey shok! im pretty much a lux mid otp since season 6 as a casual player (maybe around 7 hours per week of playing). whenever i switch to other champions im soooo much worse than with lux. can you recommend a champ for further improving, when someone has lux as best champ and wants to improve?
hmm imo ahri would be a decent champ to try, sorta has elements of lux's safety but is slightly more punishing so could be a first step towards learning other champs
thank you for the quick and helpful reply. i'll try out ahri :) @@ShokLeague
The video is confusing.
Let me explain, it feels hard following your logic on how you define for who's best for "improving" in a champ class.
One example is Talon vs Zed -- How you praise Zed to be better at improving fundamentals across the assassin class feels weird. With the ranged shadow gimmicks, super safe untargetable assassinations, and the equal random snowball chances in lane. I am not sure how the other assassins fall so short on the tier list or how Zed isn't down there with them.
There's this feeling that there's too many nuances for a giant list like this. I would vote to see this tier list broken down by class.
Agreed. I would also put Akshan minimum A tier (if not S) because he requires a lot of knowledge of the game to actually be useful or contribute positively, as he's a mid laner with basically no utility unlike most mid laners and has to make up for it in other ways. Some examples include aggressive laning, spacing/kiting (especially in team fights), roaming, etc.
I think Zed is much more transferrable to other champions than Talon or many of the other assassins are. Zed doesn't really have some weird mechanic to him (cheese roams like talon for example) and for the most part plays melee vs ranged in the same way other champs normally do. Obviously, he does get away with some shit due to his ability to farm with Q (which again I took away points for). I think the safety factor isn't as much as you'd think because W is your main trading ability and you're going to be using it more or less on cooldown, I don't think Zed is virtually ungankable in the same way some other mid laners are. You still have to think about where the jg/support might be. That's my opinion on it anyway, but ultimately it's subjective.
cries in heimer mid main: probably D tier tbh
No idea what I'd put for heimer tbh...
37:00
qiyana is so weak that i periodically forget her existence
I wouldve hoped to see a melee in S tier. But I suppose you don‘t consider them to give you the true midlane experience. I agree on most of the list though.
It's more that the melees tend to be so different from each other that it's hard to choose one that'll teach you about all the rest, that's my opinion anyway
I play a lot of ryze and do way better on him than any other champs and im in silver. I think i have something like a 70% winrate on ryze but dont feel impactful even if super ahead. Ive had to focus a lot on not dying to ganks as him at least
Nice vid bro! This was the first vid I saw of you, thanks!
What about Diana mid though? :)
imo Diana is just a much better jungler than mid laner, if you were to play her mid though for improvement she's probably around the mid-high B. Fairly standard ap assassin overall
If u putted diana ahe would be like B or where?
Ye probs high B
where is my kennen....
Sorry...
Thank you so much sir!
Hey shok nice video, but I waited for Diana, what do you think of her (even if mid is not her main role)
She'd probably be in B somewhere, fairly standard champ overall that isn't too difficult. Maybe top half of B.
Would you do some content for pantheon? I know people generally say he's simple but I would like a more midlane perspective on him. Thank you
I should do yeah, Nemesis has a lot of pantheon videos as well
Hello! I've got some questions!
I've very recently transitioned to mid because of hwei, where would you put him? Will I be able to learn how mid works while I play him? And who else could I play from your tier list that will be similar to hwei and will help me understand his play style better? I'm looost😂❤
He's probably good and bad for improving, good in the sense that he is immobile and plays by a lot of traditional rules so it should test your fundamentals. Bad in that it might be hard to focus on learning mid itself if you're too overwhelmed by his kit. I'd say play him if you enjoy him but you might wanna learn something simpler like Vex/Annie alongside it just so you can focus on some midlane stuff too.
@@ShokLeague alright thank you so much for ur answer and your videos, they're helping me a lot❤️
Where would you put Hwei on this list now that he's released? I've been trying to come up with a champion pool but I don't know how good Hwei is for improving and for blind picking. He's really fun so I want to play him, but I don't know how to best round out a pool featuring him. Considering three of Vex, Syndra, and Jayce.
He'd be fairly high up but not the top. He tests a lot of fundamentals which is great for learning, but because he's a difficult champion to play you're gonna spend a lot of games simply learning Hwei and being unable to focus on fundamentals. As a blind he's ok, good neutralizer but doesn't have a dash and lane phase is solid but not super strong. Your champ pool is good I think, I would try have a champ with a dash (ahri, liss etc) but you don't NEED it, just might help sometimes.
@@ShokLeague Thanks so much! I've got 75 games on Hwei already (he's super fun) and I'll give Lissandra another shot over maybe Syndra or Vex.
The fact that you didn't put brand in this list AT ALL makes me sad.
Where would you place diana? Im a diana mid otp going for diamond rn, always wondered how good this champ is for improving generally. Im playing her very team oriented, mostly fighting with a number advantage in mid-late game
I think she'd probably be near the higher end of B for me, she's actually a pretty good champ for improving. She just doesn't really get talked about mid much because there are better mid ap assassins and she's a better jungler than mid laner
hey shok thanks for this one will definetly help narrow my pool a bit
i think he literally has a guide for this. check out his midlane fundamentals playlist
Ye check out my how to review guide
My man hates Akshan xD
He should definitely be placed at least A tier in my opinion, especially if Akali is there, who has stronger trades than Akshan. Him being in the same tier as Malzahar is so crazy to me.
In general, if you don't know too much about the game then you will not be useful as Akshan (at least conpared to most other mid lane champs). Improving with him means you are improving at a lot of the core/fundamental concepts of the game.
Akali does not have stronger trades than Akshan... Akali auto loses most lanes (unless you're vs some melees) where as Akshan auto wins most of them. I don't think Akshan plays like virtually any other mid laner either, so the skills are less transferrable and it's so easy to just run around and cheese random kills with him. Honestly the most similar champ to Akshan is probably Katarina but at least Katarina doesn't have the auto winning lane phase.
didn't azir just get nerfed? do you still think he is broken?
his nerf was a 2 second increase to his Q, the nerf was nothing basically
Can someone calculate the difference of Q cooldown between the current patch and before? Like with Liandry and Nashors Q lvl 4-5?
I think he's still broken as fk
Great video!
Especially agree with the ryze take mostly cuz of how shit he’s been for such a long time.
just out of curiosity, what do you think about eve mid? i see it some times but i am genuinely curious what you think of it :)
No idea tbh I've never vsed eve mid
hey Shok! so viktor used to be S tier but he wins lane too easily nowadays to be good for learning right? what if you just pick scaling runes to balance the scaling lanebully archetype for laning like ori and syndra?
imo he's still a very good champ fo rlearning
Sad chogath noises
This is the only tier list that matters, absolute based 10/10 content
Where would you put GP on this list? Haven't played in a while and looking to start again... :)
Not really sure I don't play GP nor see it mid that often... I guess he'd be around A or B tier?
i have been playing for about half an year now. i like to play akshan . so should i just play from s tier and slowly move towrds other champs then play akshan after i understand the fundementals and all. Could u suggest me some champs to go through to learn since i like akshan playstyle
Kinda depends what exactly you like about Akshan, honestly though I'd just try out things you like and use those to learn the fundamentals
Brand is not good?
imo might better in jungle
What about Karthus?
Probs B tier? Not too sure
My guy. Neeko. Don't entice noobs to pick that cheese ball up any more than they already do. ☠️
Sorry I've done a disservice to the league community with that
@@ShokLeague yessssssss.. ban the lizard!
No talon ?
Talked about him at the very end
Diana? 😮
Copied from another comment: She'd probably be in B somewhere, fairly standard champ overall that isn't too difficult. Maybe top half of B.
definitely don't agree with with the list. garen is very mid lane
I'm a qiyana one trick and suck
❤
Disliked because you skipped brand
pepelaugh
but i hate mages
That's ok you can improve on anything
@@ShokLeague i needed to hear this
first
WTF where's AD Bard mid wtf shok
Not in my games I hope