I relate so much to this, I remember asking the forum for help once and just getting tons of backlash cause my build wasn’t specced right. Like why does that make anyone mad? I didn’t mess up your character, I messed up mine
Yeah, this is just true. I played it a lot from the beginning on and off, and with each "on" after a prolonged "off" it became harder and harder to figure out what the hell was going on. And now it really is like you say - it is a great, very complex game, but it also feels like a full-time job if you want to be really into it. And as it keeps getting ever more complex, eventually (if not already) new player numbers will just dwindle dramatically because ain't nobody got time to learn AND practice all that.
The game gets bigger and bigger with each new league. So i dont really see the player base dieing especially with poe 2 around the corner. I dont even see the current game and its complexity as an problem but the way ggg treats its players time. The awfull trading system, the abysmal looting and micromanagement for endgame makes me want to off myself.
You summed it up perfectly. As someone who has over 3000 Hours in this Game, I agree. POE Now-a-days feels like a Full Time Job. They can simplify so many things and make it more fun !!! I can so relate to what you said.. By the time I complete 10 Acts, Get to Red Maps and reach Lv 90, I get bored and stop playing my Character. That shouldn't be the case, Higher levels should be more fun - Without needing Special Items or 6 Links !!!
Im kinda late to the party as this video just popped up for me bc of new season, but i wanna give my unwanted opinion anyways :) This video sadly hits really hard. You just sumed up poe perfectly: Super fun gameplay, fascinating design fundamentals, stupidly complex framework, badly designed difficulty curve. Good video. Here the long explanation: What got me into poe was the fascination for the "superficial" complexity (meaning the skill tree and gems and maybe even the atlas). However my fascination turned into confusion/frustration and subsequently into resignation as i got deeper into some mechanics like crafting for example. I sunk countless hours into youtube videos and still cant even truly process what pathofmaths is talking about in some of his videos (eg. the creation of crafting bases). Especially the inclusion of cluster jewels to me is just bizarre as on top of mandatory uniques now i have to sink a shit ton of currency into my skilltree to make some builds endgame viable. And this doesnt even seem optional as many builds just require this kind of optimization to reach the true endgame. As i originally liked the skill tree i just feel cheated now since the "good" Parts have been outsorced to super expensive items that you can hardly aquire yourself. I would really like some form of infinetly scaling endgame but a lowered difficulty cealing for regular content so the hardcore players can still battle it out at the top/get rich but reaching the endgame is actually possible for casual players with dedication. I dont want to get rich in the game. I just wanna have the feeling i killed the endboss. Dont get me wrong: It shouldnt be Diablo-easy. But a casual player with a combined play- and education time of over 200 hours should atleast have the opportunity, to push for the endgame if he so desires. Edit: The part about uniques being complete trash is also so dumb. Last league i played a melee build which i enjoyed really much. But i got hardstuck in early red maps, as my inchimonji just became too weak and i couldnt afford stupidly expensive foils.
So what he is saying is that this game is no longer a game. Its a self taught class, and you won't ever get to graduate because it changes every 3 months, and most of the seniors are bullies. Roblox Raiders Yt
The ultimate failure in a game is one you have to "learn" how to play by watching videos and reading guides. A masterpiece game teaches you how to play as you play, naturally and organically.
@@TheDoubleSided I’ve put probably over a thousand hours in tarkov, and some of my best gaming experiences was knowing nothing of the game and messing around with my friends trying to learn how to do shit.
How is that a failure? If you didn't know what a chess board is, what are the odds you would be asking what piece does what? Or how to set up pieces to take other pieces? The game doesn't explain itself, you learn it
PoE is a double-edged sword for me. I love complex games that I can get completely lost in for days, but Poe goes in so many different directions at once that you completely lose track. At the same time, the gameplay hasn't changed at all.I find it impressive how some people spend hour after hour over days just pressing one button over and over again. If you look closely, Poe is a polished cookieclicker. In most builds you press the same button over and over again. And people love it. Everything around it with crafting and such, makes it interesting. But once I get back into the wild, after 2 hours I wonder why I spend my life pressing that one button over and over again.
You hit the nail right on the head there. However, the one-button issue has definitely improved over the years. More and more builds are relying on multiple skills (offensive and defensive) depending on what you're fighting. It makes it even harder to build characters this way though because of the current gem/socket system. You can't build more than 1-2 strong skills on a character because you're limited on links. Good thing this is getting reworked in PoE2. It appears that PoE 2 is also taking another route with combat and they are designing the game around playing with multiple skills at once. Every situation will rely on different skills, so combat will probably be much more skill-based.
@@UglyStru PoE 2 is also my great hope for this genre. The development speed of Grinding Gear Games is remarkable. Of course, Diablo 4 is also coming and Blizzard Games meet my taste. But after a few months, it will probably lack content similar to Diablo 3. Therefore, this time I want to be with Poe 2 from the beginning to not be completely overwhelmed.
Same. Its also time that went by... Its not 90s. Isometric style aint givin same options and game feeling like tpp. I had hope that new D wiuld be like last God of War or Warhammer wermin.
this video is a bit misleading, yes if you dont have a good build you wont reach the last boss or whatever but you will still have your fun, to some people a bit of fun is just what they need from an arpg and if diablo is starting to unfulfill the void you should give poe a try
UglyStru assume that a new player goal is to reach the map and beat the entire game and not to play the campaign and learn as he go. He say in is video that is view of new players changed in the recent past but from what I heard him say he still see a new player as someone with over 20h in the game, which is highly misleading. The gem system is convoluted, but if you are a Diablo 2 player its not really more complicated then basic D2 physical damage calculation. :,) My personal suggestion to new player is to play the campaign, try skills and get comfortable with the gem system, links, socket, etc. You will have a shit build and probably wont be able to start mapping but you will see if the game appeal to you or not. Also, its around 20-30$ to get the minimal stash tab and you really don't need them before maps. EDIT: I got a friend who play 1 character per new league, always on hardcore and when he die, he stop for that league. He need 1 or 2 hours to clear every act, he categorically refuse advises and the further he as reached is act 6. Despite all that he have fun every time, he try the new league mechanic and play for around 10h per league doing wacky build that any veteran player would almost find offensive. In the end, that is how he enjoy the game and who am I go tell him otherwise?
Literally me coming into this. You basically have to go into this with an mmo mindset and that's the main reason why I dont even bother.i own/play way to many games to dedicate the majority of my gaming time playing poe.
Let me start by saying I hardly ever comment on videos, but I just loved this one since it described the problems with PoE in a good way. I don't have the time to play as much as I used to so you saying something like "casual players almost have to choose what to miss" is information I really need before picking a game to spend a time in. Continue the good work!
Learned about this game about 5 years ago, and while hack'n'slay/loot cycle seemed extremely satisfying, the game itself seemed to be extremely minmax-theorycrafting, with little to no ingame help. Turned me off rather quickly.
TOTALLY on point here! I was a beta player, came back twice since full release, finished the entire story and did the Atlas a bunch. Every time it got harder to come back because I felt like the disorganized pile of added mechanics made it so I could NEVER catch up, and most of my old knowledge was obsolete. Nothing is worse than a "finish line" that keeps moving forward. Plus, you've got a widening "generation gap" between the oldschool players who have been around forever, and newer to mid-length players who leave after a while so it ends up being ancient players and brand new players, and that does make for a very toxic community. Not to mention GGG has always balanced to the hardcore. If the top 1% of players find it "easy" to over-max resist because they play for 12hrs a day and have the best gear, GGG will make it harder and then more casual players will go from a difficult experience to an impossible experience. I've been done with PoE for a while. I'm absolutely sure I'll never come back, and I'm relatively sure I won't try any sequel game; I know that GGG will employ the same "pile on" paradigm. In fact, I've left other games due to the same flaw (Warframe). But hey, D2 Resurrected came out recently, with the exact same mechanics it has had for years, and that has been super fun. Plus, Grim Dawn shows that expansions can add to a game without overly complicating it. Thanks for the video!
I’m a new player, level 42 ranger. I’m so confused and have absolutely no idea what I’m doing and have been watching a whole bunch of guides, but I’m having fun. Hearing that I won’t be able to do endgame content without all this mid-maxing is disheartening. I’ll see how long I make it though.
Yup. this is the reason I quit. Got to end game maps, found out the crazy hours I just spent building my character were for nothing because I picked the wrong skills. Can't even one button respec your skills like 95% of other games in this genre. It's for elites who want to spend their lives on a site devoted to "building" characters.... Cool. GGG must hate money and I'm cool w/ that. On to other things.
I'm a new player and you made so many good points. Once you hit 75% through this video, that last 25%, I actually really like the mechanics you are putting down. Also. You being a very experienced player, you can see all the impacts of the changes to the new looting system / economy / etc. But I'm a new player, and trying to figure it out is part of the fun. I don't expect the game to tell me all I need to know. I feel like that it is too much to expect the game developers to anticipate every single question the player may have. In this day and age, going to google and finding a guide for my questions is very normal. So overall, your expertise in this guide is very valid and evident. But you do not have a new / modern way of looking at things, which is this videos undoing. Cheers though! Loving to play a game and sharing your expertise is awesome :)
I can relate so much with this review. I started playing PoE a very long time ago, played for about a week or so but was too overwhelmed and didn't want to spend hours upon hours of learning so i gave up. I came back a few years later and i got into the game a lot more than the first time, played for almost 4 seasons. I never went on to learning to craft because that seemed like a full PhD which i wasn't ready to invest time into. I had my fun but as you said the fact they nerf builds to the ground ever season is what made me quit. I don't even have time to finish a build before it gets nerfed and rendered useless. I expect small balance changes in these sorts of games but not a full 180 turn every 3 months and pretty much restarting from scratch. Even if the season ends there's no point continuing the build in standard since it was nerfed so badly.
Complexity is fine. However new players can't really be expected to wrap their heads around every single system and currency and builds that might change and be bad in a patch or two. I think a game should stand on it's own without needing alot of 3rd party tools. Or those tools should be included in the game by the developers and kept up to date. If it feels like it's too much work before you even start playing the game it's going to turn alot of new players away. Most people just want to be able to jump into the game and by their own get to endgame. And learn while they are playing. But it's very unforgiving since respecs are expensive among needing to know alot of meta-knowledge that is not even explained in-game.
This video was excellent. You covered everything that bothered me about the game and why I quit. I tried to learn for 15 hours over several days. Watched guides, installed the addons, and I'm an experienced gamer. This game's barrier to entry is simply too high.
I really enjoyed POE for about 6 months until I realised how much time I had to commit to even get a half decent build. I sunk in at least 200 - 300 hours and reluctantly called it quits as it really isn't all that casual friendly.
I definitely agree that the barriers to entry are super high and convoluted, even if we consider that the target audience of PoE had always been tending towards the more "hardcore gamer" side. I have to take breaks due to irl stuff relatively often, and it's always a headache to not only catchup with new patches and league mechanics, but also update all the third party stuff, especially if something became obsolete compared to something else (like the good old trademacro being too slow to use, so I had to play the "guess which of these much faster and more user friendly trading tools aren't going to sell your data to China" game). To get into PoE and be able to eventually enjoy it and just grind maps in peace with the nagging sense of wasting time due to inefficiency, one most be: 1. Already familiar with ARPGs because the tutorial is ass 2. either have very teacheresque and patient friends to explain stuff or be ready to watch literally hours upon hours of videos 3. have a better-than-average understanding of IT and be patient enough to constantly update and maintain use of all the third party stuff one needs to play efficiently 4. spend at least a good 50~ bucks during stash tab sale weekends, again, for efficiency 5. be willing to either have a huge chunk of content be impossible, or grind for 8+ hours for 2-3 weeks at least at the start of a new league. And these are just off the top of my head. There are some minor exaggerations in this video, but the essential message is true, idk why or who would downvote this, it's basically factual.
I can relate with this video. I used to play different leagues a lot, but I never got that far because when I got to the point where it required homework, I just kind of lost interest and stepped away. After the next league I would get into it again and do the same thing. I have found that if my group just play Standard, we can casually have fun, get sick of it or hit a wall, stop, and come back after they reset skill points to try different builds. It's been an extremely satisfying experience. I recognize that I'm missing a vast majority of what the game has to offer, but I'm having fun. When I was younger I loved theory crafting, but now I just don't have the temperament or time. You are right, the builds I tried to follow were outdated or required items I would never get, so they were useless to me beyond giving general ideas. It is a blast to dip into different mechanics, do light crafting, chain different gems, and not worry about getting the "right" experience.
Yes, definitely. I think if there are casual players who still want to give it a shot, standard is the way to go. You lose out on any new mechanics and the economy may be a bit stale but at least you get to work at your own pace for the most part.
I’ve been away from RPGs for ages, but just started playing Torchlight 2, which has been in my game backlog since it was released. I’ve been having a complete blast, so started searching to see what’s out there now, and ran across this video. The video, and your comments are giving me a bit of Eve Online PTSD flashback, I worked one Eve Online (oops I meant played it,) for a few years, and while I had tons of fun in the game, it definitely was closer to a full time job than any game I’ve ever played. I realized how bad it was when I started putting together massive spreadsheets for my Corp to track resources, manufacturing, mining, etc... Now I have ALWAYS hated doing spreadsheets at work, and suddenly I found myself spending hours inside spreadsheets each week for a game I was playing, for enjoyment. WTF?!? 🤪
@@kanifis Totally untrue, a friend of mine started and in one or two weeks he understood the core mechanics, and discovering everything is a pleasure that you'll experience only one time ! But hey this video is made for dumb people unlike Path of Exile !
Thanks for saving me time. I’ll just keep playing Diablo 3 and will wait for D2 remaster later this year. Pretty sad nowadays company’s have to rely on remasters to bring the magic back.
I use games to relax and have some down time, not to put countless hours into min-maxing or studying forums for ages in order to even be remotely competitive in progressing. I won't be returning to PoE so thank you for this video!
Hey man! I consider myself a new player to this game only having about 100hours in. Like 2 leagues ago haha. I felt everything you said when it came to the convoluted crafting and currency gimmick. Though I think end game is where I want to be. But like you said the elitist atmosphere of dare not ask for help you will just get flamed in #general chat. Having some sort of LIST of things I can make in game and mot having to deal with 3rd party crap would be nice. Because also I’m casual and my time wants to be spent IN GAME. Not the browser lol Well anyways loved the vid. Going to sub now.
BTW: you are absolutely 1000% right about casual players view the game. Thanks for making this video and expressing this viewpoint. How can most people be expected to completely change builds every 2-3 months? overwhelming
I'm at the end of Act 3. I just started playing last week. I really like this game, but I can see how the skill tree is going to really affect what I do in the later acts. The skill tree reminds me of Final Fantasy 10. I like the system, but it seems that this game is set up that in the later acts, the player must be a specific type of build in order to succeed. That is majorly flawed because of players like me. I like a well rounded and balanced character, which means that my skill tree is a mess of me branching off into a whole mess of different directions because I like to sample a little bit of everything. I hate to be pigeon holed into one or two specific types of builds. I don't like to be a "super soldier" when it comes to one or two things, but be weak as hell in other areas. BTW, great video. I was laughing at your commentary about the hardcore players. I friended a couple of players already. One of them was super helpful and gave me a few items and tips to help get me started. The other one is definitely a hardcore player. He reminds me of a D&D nerd in his mom's basement. He's a nice guy too, but goes way to in depth on every single aspect of the game.
Hey first time on this channel. You are voicing out what i thought when I left poe 5 years ago. I just wanted to check what has happened after I played approx 1500 hours, it's still still has the same problems. Too many things added on top of each other without any synergy. Sad story of poe.
I started playing again. And after 1 hour and 10 new things popping up, I found this video and will say goodbye to the game for now! THIS seems like to much work to do if you already from the beginning will never be good enough as a casual player. Thanks for sharing this video.
To be fair, everything he says is true, yet the game is still fun for a couple hundred hours if you don't absolutely have to do the endgame. Not bad for a free game.
Good video I think you adress the right points here. I consider myself as an invested casual player, means if I decide to play a league I put more time into it as the avarage casual player but I also skip some leagues. But I remember way back at my first league, perandus, I came from Diablo 3 and was very overwhelmed by PoE, I couldnt get really into the game until Essence league. Now thats 5 years ago and the entire game has changed since then, I usually have only to catch up 1-2 leagues of content, but a total new player has to learn the stuff of the last 10 years. In PoE knowledge is very important, many players might have a couple Exalts worth laying around without even knowing or struggle through campaign because they dont know how to level efficently. I find often myself in the boomer camp of "the game is not so hard" and not consider that I spend 6.000h into the game, more as in any other game and still don't know everything about it, need to look up a lot by making a new build, spending some hours before a league on what build I play. PoE has so much 3rd party software you require to play the game efficent, poe wiki, exile craft, poe trade, path of building, poeLab, filterblade, etc. PoE is a long steep learning curve and yes I wouldnt have got into the game if a friend of mine wasn't pushing me and conving me its better as Diablo 3. Path of Exile is hands down my favorite game and I spend more on MTX as in any other game. I love the complexity of the game but GGG needs to rethink how to balance the game also for casuals and make it accessible, the recent nerfs to Head Hunter chance makes it obvious, some players will never touch this Iconic item and this is just sad. The only other game out there that comes to my mind with so much change and patch notes going is League of Legends, one reason why I dont touch this game.
I'm annoyed this video has so many dislikes. You hit the nail right on the head, this is why I haven't come back to the game in 2.5 years. Every time I try again I get overwhelmed with how complex the latest league is, and all of the old league stuff is still there, so that's like 6-8 other leagues I missed complete with new itemization, areas, masters etc. It's just way too much to digest, and I put in probably 1000 hours into the game when I used to play back when Nemesis league was new. Like you said, I am hoping that PoE2 strips the game back down to an easily digestible state that has a sensible progression and doesn't feel like a second job.
Thanks for making this video. It can be tough to criticize something that you love. I started learning about PoE after some of the sequel news came out, but I have to agree that jumping in now requires a level of dedication not everyone can commit to. I think I'll wait till PoE2 since the designs from the trailer really impressed me. #FingersCrossed
I think this is the only video I’ve ever seen the title SHOULD YOU PLAY *Game Title* in 2021? And have the answer be straight up, “No. You shouldn’t.” Lol I appreciate the honesty
Funny things I just starting poe today ( i played 20 hours in another life, I dont ever remember playing it before). I told myself "This is the video I need to watch" . Og god I was wrong :). Will watch your begenner guide I guess and will post in few days if you can still enjoy the game in 2021 for a total casual.
So far its pretty fun. lvl 37 probably around 12-15 hours of "real" gameplay ( i am at 36 hours total but I let the game running afk for a long time). But you definitly need to read a little bit and use a guide. Also the forum/board are filled with idiot. Few times I google a question or something, I got a guys asking the same question on a forum and there is no answer, only guys telling "use google nob" to the post which is conter-productive. Have a nice day
I know the company is called Grinding Gears Games but amouth of grinding you need to do in this is just absurd :D I sank about 70 hours into the game, completed the main story and killed first atlas boss. Then I realised that the game is just a chore at that point. Grind for currency, grind for maps, grind for more currency, grind for more maps, grind for sulphite, grind delve, grind for more sulphite, try for six link with your 300 orbs of fusion, fail, grind more orbs... Way back when I was younger I sank hundreds of hours in Lineage II, some of it was fun (new people, clan wars, raids, sieges) but mostly it was grinding stuff to be able to have fun. I just realised that Iam burning all my free time on something I dont really enjoy, Iam not going out, I dont do sport too often, I dont socialize... just trying to get higher numbers in lvl, ingame currency and item stats. And for what really? Path of Exile has for me that same gambling "slot machine" appeal. You always hope to drop something while mindlessly grinding the very same area for hours. After you drop the stuff, you get small rush of extasy and you keep grinding to drop more. Same with rare items. You finally get that sword you wanted, you have fun with it for 30 minutes and then you start grinding next one. Iam still getting sucked into these games but after some 50 hours I usually realise Iam not having fun anymore, just wasting my life :D It keeps my satisfied at that point becouse of progression and feeling of sucess but looking back after a while, I only see wasted time. Cough... cookie clicker... cough
For whatever it's worth, I agree. I have been a gamer since the 80's. I have almost 3,000 hrs in DIablo III (I tell people I can almost play it in my sleep. I still play seasons now & then if they look interesting enough. Like the current Season 23). Also enjoy Grim Dawn. I started PoE in Jan & have about 300 hrs in with two character builds. One is lvl 55 Witch (Elementalist) Standard League. New one is a lvl 45 Templar SSF Standard. It's probably the most complex game I've ever played, including Destiny 2 (which I have almost 1,000 hours in). In Diablo III & Destiny 2, I help out new players (newbies) because I remember how hard it was to get any help from the many arrogant a'holes playing them at the time. It's a shame so many gamers forget their own beginnings & just want to lord it over everyone else. I think of them as wannabe Politicians. 🤷♂️🤨
I have yet to come across any toxic players not willing to help out newbies. I just got into it a few days ago and have put a good amount of time into it. I’m mostly using guides such as the build guides which are extremely helpful. Hope I can see more new people in this game as I’ve slowly started to enjoy it!
I don't honestly mind that I don't progress as far as other players. I don't raid in World of Warcraft either. Using a guide to help me so far in the game, leaving it up to me how to fill the gaps until I can get the "perfect" items for a build is part of the gameplay. Its not Build Guide = Win. At least not any more. There are lots of choices for me to make myself. HOWEVER... the FOMO aspect mentioned here is right on the money. They leave too many mechanics in the game, and so I don't know which master missions are a waste of time. Or whether to bother with Heist or Incursion. I usually will do some of that just for fun. But then I feel bad for not working on performing the Leap Frog conquerer strat to unlock my atlas. I get the feeling that the best way to get better currency and loot is to just get into higher maps. So if I don't understand where the other mechanics fit, other than some gameplay fun, then I should skip it.... or SHOULD I?
I'm at about 122hrs played after having to restart my character due to not following a guide, but thankfully people through Global chat have constantly been willing to help anytime I had questions or struggled with a boss. I've never opened the subreddit and have only read the build guide I follow. With that said I think new players can still enjoy themselves without the headache of keeping up to date with patch notes. The only sidebar being you really do have to pay for more tabs or else you're going to struggle with efficiency and upgrades.
A group of us wanted to give POE a shot at a small LAN a few weeks back; and of 6 players starting, I was the only on continuing playing after the weekend. Currently I have put around 80-ish hours into the game, so I think I have been giving it a fair chance, but I’m also done playing now. I think you are completely correct when you say ‘it feels more like a chore or a job; than an actual game’. Between us, we have played most RPG-game to launch on PC since the mid-90’s, and even to us, POE just does not feel intuitional at all, and most of the time we were playing the game, we didn’t really know why/how we were doing it. Google really is your friend here; and in my experience there is 0% chance of completing anything in this game, if you are not willing to spend as many hours reading guides & build videos. I can only imagine what an absolute nightmare it would be for new players that haven’t played RPG’s for the better part of 25 years.
good rant, I didn't agree with everything you said but I believe it is important to make it simpler for newer players so they can appreciate the complexity when they are ready.
I actually enjoyed this game immensely for quite awhile, my only main issue with it was the lack of graphic quality in it for the base PS4. I don’t have a Pro or anything and am currently waiting for eventual PS5s to become a everyday thing for people lol. Anyway the graphics always took forever to load in textures or sometimes wouldn’t even do it period and that kinda through me off of the game after awhile. It’s not the only game like that though for PS4. Many of the newer Res games have this issue too like 7 and 8. I heard it even had the issues for people who do have PS5 as well with textures taking forever to load. As for the complexity of the game, it is rather difficult but it’s not as hard I think as people make it out to be. I’m like a dumbass when it comes to most things lol so if I can even manage this game I think most people can play this. It’s just takes some time to really focus on what your doing and learn everything. It’s literally Diablo 2 on steroids with the gaming mechanics. With that being said I of course will always prefer Diablo and the easier gaming mechanics do make it much more fun and enjoyable however Path of Exile is also very enjoyable in its own way. It’s also significantly a longer game overall then Diablo 2 or 3, maybe even both games combined and that’s saying something. This game has 10 acts total I believe and there all like insanely long. Diablo games only had 4 at first and then 5 with the expansion added to them. And usually act 4 for 2 and 3 were far less long compared to the other acts. I would say this game overall is still a truly epic game and worth playing. But yes, it’s a extremely difficult game I think. I never even managed to beat it, even as good as I was doing, I only managed to get to Act 6 I think...or maybe it was7? I don’t quite remember. Shit got hard for me at that point.
Well i play PoE on SSF+HC for many Years now, but i absolutely agree with you in all points except one - Imo you can meet a lot of good of People in PoE, despite all of the known Streamers like Mathil, Ziz and Steel where you can learn a lot. Or you can participate in small private Leagues ( for example Terence's_), they have FAQ for Beginners and create a Build for Starters and offer help in Discord etc. So i asked multiple times for help and never got disappointed. Maybe i was a lucky case. I just took a Break for 2 Leagues and even for me, which almost played every League is not easy to come back in and see all the new Stuff and Mechanics.
I have over 1k hours spread out over several years. I literally have zero idea whats going on to this day. I came back after year or something. Tried playing scourge for a few days.. and just instantly quit as soon as I started mapping. Everything feels so bloated, skills are nerfed, and the lack of currency drops is seriously frustrating.
Though the entire video does end up sounding like a rant, I can empathize quite a bit with it because some of my friends who are 'casual' POE players complain about some of the same things. The #1 thing I hear is that builds they are following have much better damage/survivability than their own characters and they have no clue on how they can upgrade their gear.. The only thing I wanted to add to the discussion is that to get to white/yellow maps (which is a lot of the endgame), you absolutely do not need the kind of gear you described which is a chore to obtain or that requires in-depth game knowledge. But yes, to get into high-tier red maps nowadays (ever since the boss HP buffs) you do need very very good gear for most builds. I think the game moved in this direction because a large portion of the loyal base (that returns each league to play) generally wants a harder/more challenging game. So you have to understand GGG's decision with that in mind.
perfect critique. this game peaked in 2014 for me. it was much slower like diablo, less of a convoluted mess. they atleast need to be more forgiving with respecs and allow you to easily fully respec your tree its ridiculous, youre right this game just feels like a full time job. Ive been playing since 2013 but take breaks every year or two and when i come back its like i never played at all cause they overhaul it so much I recently am following a build guide and made it to end game yellow maps, but found myself spending 75% of time staring at POB/trading websites trying to figure out WTF im suppose to be doing or trading for or this mechanic or that, or obtain this crafting this, or blah blah blah ,it just never ends. its a full time job. not really fun when all I wanna do is complete all the maps and get some currency drops and could care less about a billion different convoluted mechanics. theres a fine line between Diablo 2's simplistic greatness, though lack of end game, and then path of exiles completely bloated clusterfk of an endgame, and no enjoyable simplicity . So far theres not been any game to get a middle ground just right.
Totally agree with you. What is really painful is the hardcore players getting instantly killed by trash mobs. This game is incredible difficult I finished hardcore content in all games like D2,D3,GD yet normal atziri in POE seems incredible hard no matter the build I try to kill her with. And if she is that hard, not going to mention shaper or other end game bosses.
I have been gaming for 30+ years, and Path of Exile may be the only game I ever played that actually made me hateful towards the developers. -The one shots that takes 10% of your XP and prevents you from leveling. -Disconnecting or crashes in trials so you have to start over. -Forced always online. -Game is "free" and not "pay to win", but you have to pay for bank space, and you need bank space. A lot of it. -The purposeful lack of a working auction house. Extremely obviously so you will be forced to buy more bank space, so you can trade with the awful current trading system. -Extremely random and overwhelming crafting. Since I'm not interested in being a tradebot, that effectively destroys endgame for me and I just quit once I hit mid-endgame. I'll never see any of the endgame stuff because I don't have the patience to trade and get the required gear. Every league adds a whole new mess of currency (that doesn't fit in the currency tab) and crap to stash, once again purposely filling up your bank so you have to buy more tabs. Flies like turds, which is why POE has so many fanboys defending this stuff. Most of the players are just complete autists. To be fair, the game is still a lot of fun up to the end stuff. A decent game that could have been one of the greats. Lost potential.
Here's hoping that Path of Exile 2 will be a bit more streamlined experience. I'm a boomer playing since Talisman, but like a boomer I just can't keep up with the kids with their new crafting mechanics and materials. Nowadays I just stay in Standard and purchase whatever I need...
I started playing this game with trying to copy build guides, but when i found that impossible i rather tryed to build them to the extent i was able to instead, i remeber i was very irritated about how difficult it was to obtain allot of stats and items and so on. In the end i had allot more fun by just making lots of build that didnt do to well in the beginning until later when i had learnd ALLOT and started to really pop off, and now im at a point where i do endgame content every leauge. This took me an absurd amount of hours and i regret nothing, it was a fun jurney.
I downloaded the game, looked at the gargantuan skill tree and then contemplated my life choices that lead me to that moment while simultaneously setting my ps4 ablaze and kicking it out my window. Nowadays I pray to jyestha the Hindu goddess of misfortune to keep her from bringing back that nightmare of convoluted heresy you people call a skill tree.
Yeah I used to "grind" all the time back in 2012 through 2013. Got really into it but just the idea of getting back into it seems so daunting now. How many hours of videos would I have to watch to even get an idea of how to catch up? Which videos are even the right ones for me? It's a lot...
I just played a game where I neat every single boss twice, and I'm halfway to max level. Tbh, idk if I want to grind the exact same bosses for new gear. For reference, i did all this in like 13 hours, and it's a solely ftp mmo. Doing daily's, it should take like, 20 more hours if I don't join a guild of edgy/gay/furries to carry me.
I played this game when it first came out, a new look on Diablo, is what I called it, was incredibly fun. When I saw all the shit there was to learn/do in this game like, a year later, I threw my hands up in the air and said; 'Fuck this, I'm out.' Yes a lot can change in a year, but the amount of shit that changed IN THAT year was... just too much, game like Diablo 3, that put a portal in town so you can't bring mobs back to the first town, or added rift dungeons, or, made it where it wasn't just 4 modes anymore, like those changes take like, 2 hours to get used to, this game though... Holy... Shit... If you're gone for a year, or so, you come back EVERYTHING that was the way it was before, is changed. It's just too much. I agree with you, they are an awesome company for keeping things fresh, but... they def need a better tutorial guide, or to just... settle down... Great review, and good recommendation of; 'No, don't join it now, it's too much.' -- I agree.
Yeah, I thought about trying it again but... after this, nope. Nicely done summary, thx! What do you think, is Grim Dawn better for casual/semi-serious play than this?
Yeah hey, I agree, it is super convoluted and the amount of time one needs to spend on studying or understanding the mechanics combined with crafting the most appropriate items is ridiculous to be honest. I mean, I know some people are really good at gaming and probably require a league or 2 to kill all the content, but geez, I've invested a lot time and there's still so much I don't understand about this... I've actually decided to play one character and switch over to standard to perfect her. That's where I'm at.
Ridde for everyone who says "just follow a guide! There easy to follow!" Guides can only be followed if you can even understand what the guide says and means, meaning you have to at least understand a fair amount of the game to even translate the guides. seriously, everything from leveling guide, gem guides, gear guide, to a new player will completely go over heads. So nee players have to trial and error Poe and waste many hours just to be literate in POE before you can REALLY begin!
Thank you for this. This is exactly how I felt after getting into it during the legion league. After a while, it really just turns into a job. I sincerely hope Diablo 4 will not be so convoluted and just fun to play.
I started played PoE a few months ago and I was able to hop right in. Beat Act 10 boss with little to no issues, but I am an ARPG veteran (played a lot of Diablo 2, Grim Dawn, Torchlight 2, etc) so I had that at least. I'm playing with someone that is completely new to the genre and he was struggling however. So i've been coaching and carrying (to beat Act 10) him because the information is vague for newcomers.
just started playing this last night and so far its been really really enjoyable. i’ve put a few hours in and im only a lvl 14 shadow lol. i love how insanely big the game is, reminding me of warframe a little. kind of sad to hear that i wont be able to progress throughout a majority of the endgame, but if i can get a couple hundred hours out of this then im happy :)
Seeing how complex PoE has become, I wasn't sure about going back. But there is something that I still love about the game, and it is the music. PoE has top-notch music that captivates me and tempts me to return to the game, but since I have a potato pc and a lousy internet connection (making it impossible for me to progress through the Atlas), I prefer to play as a "casual" until act 10.
I completely agree with you with the game and how much of a hole this game is in because of the toxicity. But I'm going to play the game the way I want to play it. I'm just starting the game again from scratch now on Xbox ☺️. As for the tech tree I'm going to start from the begining and add new skills around like in circles so I won't miss any skill. See how well I'll do in the game like that. I really do enjoy the dialog and getting to know the characters and seeing the story line. I don't want to get involved in the trading and the other stuff you said because it's a huge headache and takes away the fun.
I agree with you, i m a huge fun of this style of games, the game generally is good i like it but sometimes i am feeling that it has many unnecessary mechanics and becomes a mess, too much content
Yeah... I only touched this game for a moment some time ago, and after the most recent announcement of PoE2, it made me think its probably time to play this game, but after what you've been saying, it seems that jumping in would be a mess, of complex mechanics that change rapidly, and make other stuff useless over quick, kinda makes me hesitant to play, which sucks, because I do think the game looks fun from gameplay
Game is good man its hard to make it far in leagues that is true but there is always perma sc or hc league that let you play at your own pace if you dont have 10h playtime per day. I agree on one thing, they make so much changes they buff a build than they nerf it and make some other build op that put me off like couple years ago like only builds that was consistant was rf and totems over the years and after a while they get boring. Poe in a nutshel league start-totems make it to maps- reroll into random flavour of the league skill- farm curency for es guardian Rf- rerol again thats it. They could add more skills and stop non stop changing old ones that would male game more fun for new players
I played from beta until 18-24 months ago & I stopped for exact reason you mentioned .. it's not because of its complexity but because it's a convoluted mess You also need to play a build that is viable with very little currency just so you can earn currency to then buy items for the build you really wanted to play all along. To do that for most players means treating the start of most leagues like a job & putting many hours in each day because every day that passes in a league common drops become cheaper which means harder to earn larger amounts of currency .
So much this. Grim Dawn is very janky and graphically outdated but I love playing it. Grinding out SR in that game felt kinda boring but rewarding, and contributes to my end game goal by earning actual good gears and rare crafting components. A lot of PoE grinds it's neither rewarding nor fun. Felt like if don't trade or play with efficiency in mind I can't even get decent gears to clear any of end game stuff with my favorite skills.
I think a really big point you're missing is that leagues are *not* for casual players. I am a casual player, with less than 500 hours in the game, and I dont think id ever play league. and I just play at my own pace and slowly build up currency that I can use to eventually get better items. Nerfing items and stuff does scare me though because having to do it all over again just to make a decent character is scary.
For a game that emphasizes builds of such complexity its crazy to me that things like skill tree planning is left to a 3rd party program. I hopped into the game on a recommendation from a friend and wasnt told anything about it and was playing it kind of like Diablo 3 which I had loved to play. I got to Act 3 and just building out how i felt like and was feeling so underpowered only to find out that my build was bad but they only let you respec a point at a time. I use to play Eve for like 5 years and even if that game is complicated it at least gives you the information you need to play properly without hamstringing your progress.
14:36 this happens to me a lot. I have about 400-500hrs on poe, and i have realized that it is very difficult to perfectly mirror a build. I tried replicating a voidfletcher ice shot build for my ranger, the build said you could easily do millions of damage when i reach end game, so i got all the necessary uniques and tried my damndest to get the right cluster jewels and rare gear pieces (cost around 5 div for all of is….a lot for me) but even with ALL of that, my damage output was not nearly enough. And it seems the reason that my damage output isnt as much as said is because i cant afford to socket EVERYTHING with awakened gems. Even just one is them is way out my pay range, much less ALL my support gems, so now my ranger is at a stand still, and if makes me fee like i wasted my time trying to replicate what i thought would be my strongest build.
even as an experienced arpg player (playing GD on hardcore and some D3 as well) its pretty hard to get into. but its still fun. but for now im gonna wait for POE 2.
Wanted to install it seeing how it was in my Epic Games account for some reason. Glad I found this video and saved me some bandwidth. I'll go play something fun instead.
completely agree with you! i played over 3000 hrs (started in essence league) and although it was a lot of fun, and i really liked heist-league but tbh i'm now simply bored from the same old same old. in the current league i created a char but soon lost interest to play it til the end. i know i could but i simply just don't want to anymore. what always annoys me is that you have this highly complex skill tree, which should supposedly offer a lot of ways to play the game but basically there are only a few builds if you really want to make it to endgame content, so why all the fuss? the game is kind of dear to me, but it's also an hour-grave with no real reward at the end. you're so exhausted from grinding that you most of all feel worn out than rewarded. i don't see the point in continuing to play this game. i'll gladly leave it to the intellectually superior to bow to the monkey on the back that poe has turned into.
As an older gamer who doesn’t have the time to spend all day grinding or learning game mechanics I appreciate this. - This reads as a game that has gotten bloated with excessive pandering to a niche player base completely negating its appeal to anyone who is unfamiliar with the lexicon of PoE stats and mechanics. Good game design needs to be both approachable and hard to master. Also you can likely reduce a lot of redundant gameplay mechanics into simpler things without ruining the core gameplay loop. I think people get comfortable in their number games and grinding without really understanding that they’re basically repeating gameplay mechanics that doesn’t need that level of overhead, while simultaneously fearing or abhorring change that would actually be good for the game.. this is project scope creep in game format. Unfortunate.
Oh my God this review is so good, so accurate and so direct that I would give you an Oscar for it if I could. Fat poe fanboys who are imprisoned in the basement by their parents from birth and all they can do is play poe don't know how toxic and unfriendly this game is for new players.
As a player that has only been playing path of exile for about a year but plays a lot, I agree with basically all the points you made in the video. In particular path of exile does an absolute horrible job teaching its systems to a new player. The one thing I will say is that if you are willing to look stuff up and you have a lot of free time I do find it a very deep and engaging game (yes I realize that is a tough ask). I just hope, like you, that ggg does a much better job teaching its systems to new players in path of exile 2.
I would't call poe hardcore. Darksouls games are hardcore, batman games are hardcore, ninja gaiden games (the original and the xbox/ps2 ones) are hardcore. Poe is a breeze as long as you pause the game, see a guide for what you are trying to do. Which is terrible game design. Lets talk about bosses for example, on any dark souls game, you can play defensively, learn the patterns and then proceeding to kill them. Everything is clear. On poe the first time i played against Katarina i had no fking idea what i supposed to do. Then i paused, watched a guide and obliterated her. Same with maven. Trash design.
You hit on a problem with a lot of gaming in general. It is particularly a problem with ARPGs because they have very simple underlying mechanics, so the added complexity that keeps people playing is always going to feel somewhat artificial.
even when games find a balance between the two..people complain about some classes or items or w/e being too op or broken or what not.so in the end its always something. but i rather have that than having a game i like but cant get into because it wants to be overwhelming with bs. i just wanna play a game man not have a second job.
this kinda bums me out because the game really looks beautiful.. and i kinda relate to what you're saying from other videogames man why are most RPGs just either dead, dying, or going into shit its just sad im just looking for something that makes me feel like i did when i first played torchlight it's just depressing.
I agree with complex vs convoluted. I believe its is too convoluted now especially having to go to discord to buy harvest crafts in the last league. I have quit after playing nearly 5000 hours
i had two characters i got to end game last year, then i quit because i dont like having to buy my gear from other players with some currency that barely dropped in maps anyway. other than that i had no real problem with the game even as a "new player" .i came from hard games where you had to look up shit constantly until you become skilled, i appreciate complicated games that's why i tried it lmao.
Yeah I have completed a map, but no I never finished my ascendancy. I have a level 70 and went as far as a Tier 5 map. In wow (WoD) I have completed mythic raids as healer, but I would never tell someone those things are easy. Hell mythic +2 keys fail frequently when players don't know what to do, let alone a 6. I have never got to maps in one day of playing. I gave up on PoE because I was tired of people telling me it's easy. Last played July and even after 400 hours of playing, I have no idea what I'm doing. I have 3 builds, with 3 authors each, and even after being able to do more damage, I still didn't feel like I was getting anywhere, and I mostly play solo. Hell Kitava is still hard for me when I see players speed run that boss for farm. I'm very sad to fear harvest is getting a nerf as this was my primary method of trying to get non-random modifiers because the developer said and I quote, too much reward. Maybe this is true for an end game player, but certainly not for me. I don't know what gear to select, what to sell, where to farm, what to farm, and I might play the new league, but after I reach a brick wall with a T7 map, I'm done.
As someone who loves RPGs a never been able to put more than 3h into POE this video pretty much proved why it isn't worth it for me. I don't mind complex games, online trading, and economy (hell I used to play WoW during Vanilla/TBC/WOTLK) and put just over 1k hours into Warframe. Few issues I see with POE Visually boring, convoluted mechanics, microtransactions (I much prefer WF since you can earn platinum and cosmetics are pretty reasonably priced), build plays the same so yeah great you can build 1000 different variations with the same playstyle, story, and setting is pretty boring. But the worst part is the community Back in the days of my WoW addiction (god I feel old), the community was great (at least on the server I played on and with a pretty chill guild) more recently Warframe also a nice chill community, helpful for begineres, no drama. In the end, I'm glad I found Last Epoch recently, for me that's great arpg (GD started to get pretty repetitive). Anyway, great video no unfound nitpicking just a reasonable critique.
I 100% Agree. I took a league off and when I came back felt like I knew nothing (which I don't because its my second league). I also agree with the elites parts especially on console. Take any item on pc and x the price by 5-10 sometimes and that is the price on console. I see new players bring it up all the time. To where the top % just go if you don't like it quit the game. ITs economics less players reach end game this isn't pc so less rare items on the market either pay up or don't you can leave.... n I read it every day and go wow. I use to be like that items that should be 20-30c are 5 ex and to a new player who don't know how to make money that's a disaster along with getting hounded at by the so called elites to just leave if you don't like it. Yet, if you were to ask how can I make a lot of money to afford items you will get the answer. Just get to end game. No one will teach you how to farm currency the proper way or even make decent currency at league start. I think the only thing that keeps me coming back is I hope to make enough currency to try those fun builds people use. I also someday hope I can find a build that destroys league starts and methods to make tons of currency during the first 4 days of a league. I hope to make a mirror some day but the game feels like a chore I get burnt out. After an 8 hour session I go what am I playing for? I could have put that time into anything else and got better return on investment. I love games don't get me wrong but when a game makes you question playing game and the time you put in to it thats when I feel I should stop at least leave the season. So much to say but I'm glad I'm not alone. I can't even recommend the game to friends because of how much there is to be succesful in it. Especially can't get my console friends into it with how its elitist community is. This is coming from someone who has beaten maven sirusA8 elder, uber elder ects.
I relate so much to this, I remember asking the forum for help once and just getting tons of backlash cause my build wasn’t specced right. Like why does that make anyone mad? I didn’t mess up your character, I messed up mine
Yeah, this is just true. I played it a lot from the beginning on and off, and with each "on" after a prolonged "off" it became harder and harder to figure out what the hell was going on. And now it really is like you say - it is a great, very complex game, but it also feels like a full-time job if you want to be really into it. And as it keeps getting ever more complex, eventually (if not already) new player numbers will just dwindle dramatically because ain't nobody got time to learn AND practice all that.
The game gets bigger and bigger with each new league. So i dont really see the player base dieing especially with poe 2 around the corner. I dont even see the current game and its complexity as an problem but the way ggg treats its players time. The awfull trading system, the abysmal looting and micromanagement for endgame makes me want to off myself.
You summed it up perfectly. As someone who has over 3000 Hours in this Game, I agree. POE Now-a-days feels like a Full Time Job. They can simplify so many things and make it more fun !!! I can so relate to what you said.. By the time I complete 10 Acts, Get to Red Maps and reach Lv 90, I get bored and stop playing my Character.
That shouldn't be the case, Higher levels should be more fun - Without needing Special Items or 6 Links !!!
Hindu rashtra plays Poe😳😳
Im kinda late to the party as this video just popped up for me bc of new season, but i wanna give my unwanted opinion anyways :)
This video sadly hits really hard. You just sumed up poe perfectly: Super fun gameplay, fascinating design fundamentals, stupidly complex framework, badly designed difficulty curve.
Good video.
Here the long explanation:
What got me into poe was the fascination for the "superficial" complexity (meaning the skill tree and gems and maybe even the atlas). However my fascination turned into confusion/frustration and subsequently into resignation as i got deeper into some mechanics like crafting for example. I sunk countless hours into youtube videos and still cant even truly process what pathofmaths is talking about in some of his videos (eg. the creation of crafting bases). Especially the inclusion of cluster jewels to me is just bizarre as on top of mandatory uniques now i have to sink a shit ton of currency into my skilltree to make some builds endgame viable. And this doesnt even seem optional as many builds just require this kind of optimization to reach the true endgame. As i originally liked the skill tree i just feel cheated now since the "good" Parts have been outsorced to super expensive items that you can hardly aquire yourself.
I would really like some form of infinetly scaling endgame but a lowered difficulty cealing for regular content so the hardcore players can still battle it out at the top/get rich but reaching the endgame is actually possible for casual players with dedication. I dont want to get rich in the game. I just wanna have the feeling i killed the endboss. Dont get me wrong: It shouldnt be Diablo-easy. But a casual player with a combined play- and education time of over 200 hours should atleast have the opportunity, to push for the endgame if he so desires.
Edit: The part about uniques being complete trash is also so dumb. Last league i played a melee build which i enjoyed really much. But i got hardstuck in early red maps, as my inchimonji just became too weak and i couldnt afford stupidly expensive foils.
So what he is saying is that this game is no longer a game. Its a self taught class, and you won't ever get to graduate because it changes every 3 months, and most of the seniors are bullies.
Roblox Raiders Yt
No
The ultimate failure in a game is one you have to "learn" how to play by watching videos and reading guides. A masterpiece game teaches you how to play as you play, naturally and organically.
well, makes sense
Never tried tarkov huh ?
but its good to have a community that thrives on guides
@@TheDoubleSided I’ve put probably over a thousand hours in tarkov, and some of my best gaming experiences was knowing nothing of the game and messing around with my friends trying to learn how to do shit.
How is that a failure? If you didn't know what a chess board is, what are the odds you would be asking what piece does what? Or how to set up pieces to take other pieces? The game doesn't explain itself, you learn it
Man you nailed it with this review. Path of Exile stopped being fun a long time ago and is now like taking a physics degree.
That's exactly how I felt lol.
Very true. Unfortunately.
A physics degree would probably be more enjoyable.
Physics degree is easier and more fun though
PoE is a double-edged sword for me. I love complex games that I can get completely lost in for days, but Poe goes in so many different directions at once that you completely lose track. At the same time, the gameplay hasn't changed at all.I find it impressive how some people spend hour after hour over days just pressing one button over and over again. If you look closely, Poe is a polished cookieclicker. In most builds you press the same button over and over again. And people love it. Everything around it with crafting and such, makes it interesting. But once I get back into the wild, after 2 hours I wonder why I spend my life pressing that one button over and over again.
You hit the nail right on the head there. However, the one-button issue has definitely improved over the years. More and more builds are relying on multiple skills (offensive and defensive) depending on what you're fighting. It makes it even harder to build characters this way though because of the current gem/socket system. You can't build more than 1-2 strong skills on a character because you're limited on links. Good thing this is getting reworked in PoE2.
It appears that PoE 2 is also taking another route with combat and they are designing the game around playing with multiple skills at once. Every situation will rely on different skills, so combat will probably be much more skill-based.
@@UglyStru PoE 2 is also my great hope for this genre. The development speed of Grinding Gear Games is remarkable. Of course, Diablo 4 is also coming and Blizzard Games meet my taste. But after a few months, it will probably lack content similar to Diablo 3. Therefore, this time I want to be with Poe 2 from the beginning to not be completely overwhelmed.
Same. Its also time that went by...
Its not 90s. Isometric style aint givin same options and game feeling like tpp. I had hope that new D wiuld be like last God of War or Warhammer wermin.
As a guy who just wanted a darker atmosphere diablo 2, thanks for the warning
Take a look at Last Epoch if you haven't already.. It's not multiplayer yet tho..
this video is a bit misleading, yes if you dont have a good build you wont reach the last boss or whatever but you will still have your fun, to some people a bit of fun is just what they need from an arpg and if diablo is starting to unfulfill the void you should give poe a try
im waiting for D2r for path of diablo mod and just got into path of exile and im enjoying it a ton
UglyStru assume that a new player goal is to reach the map and beat the entire game and not to play the campaign and learn as he go. He say in is video that is view of new players changed in the recent past but from what I heard him say he still see a new player as someone with over 20h in the game, which is highly misleading.
The gem system is convoluted, but if you are a Diablo 2 player its not really more complicated then basic D2 physical damage calculation. :,)
My personal suggestion to new player is to play the campaign, try skills and get comfortable with the gem system, links, socket, etc. You will have a shit build and probably wont be able to start mapping but you will see if the game appeal to you or not. Also, its around 20-30$ to get the minimal stash tab and you really don't need them before maps.
EDIT:
I got a friend who play 1 character per new league, always on hardcore and when he die, he stop for that league. He need 1 or 2 hours to clear every act, he categorically refuse advises and the further he as reached is act 6. Despite all that he have fun every time, he try the new league mechanic and play for around 10h per league doing wacky build that any veteran player would almost find offensive. In the end, that is how he enjoy the game and who am I go tell him otherwise?
Literally me coming into this. You basically have to go into this with an mmo mindset and that's the main reason why I dont even bother.i own/play way to many games to dedicate the majority of my gaming time playing poe.
Let me start by saying I hardly ever comment on videos, but I just loved this one since it described the problems with PoE in a good way. I don't have the time to play as much as I used to so you saying something like "casual players almost have to choose what to miss" is information I really need before picking a game to spend a time in. Continue the good work!
Get grim dawn homie it's a incredible arpg. Its complicated but not too much like this.
Learned about this game about 5 years ago, and while hack'n'slay/loot cycle seemed extremely satisfying, the game itself seemed to be extremely minmax-theorycrafting, with little to no ingame help. Turned me off rather quickly.
Dude seriously did you check out the in-game help menu its fantastic.
That's part of what makes it so fun
Yes. You need to read countless guides in order to play the game. Not fun.
Hope they make it a bit easier at least for not so hardcore players, I haven't played PoE much or Diablo 1/2 but quiet enjoyed D3.
TOTALLY on point here! I was a beta player, came back twice since full release, finished the entire story and did the Atlas a bunch. Every time it got harder to come back because I felt like the disorganized pile of added mechanics made it so I could NEVER catch up, and most of my old knowledge was obsolete. Nothing is worse than a "finish line" that keeps moving forward.
Plus, you've got a widening "generation gap" between the oldschool players who have been around forever, and newer to mid-length players who leave after a while so it ends up being ancient players and brand new players, and that does make for a very toxic community. Not to mention GGG has always balanced to the hardcore. If the top 1% of players find it "easy" to over-max resist because they play for 12hrs a day and have the best gear, GGG will make it harder and then more casual players will go from a difficult experience to an impossible experience.
I've been done with PoE for a while. I'm absolutely sure I'll never come back, and I'm relatively sure I won't try any sequel game; I know that GGG will employ the same "pile on" paradigm. In fact, I've left other games due to the same flaw (Warframe). But hey, D2 Resurrected came out recently, with the exact same mechanics it has had for years, and that has been super fun. Plus, Grim Dawn shows that expansions can add to a game without overly complicating it.
Thanks for the video!
I’m a new player, level 42 ranger. I’m so confused and have absolutely no idea what I’m doing and have been watching a whole bunch of guides, but I’m having fun. Hearing that I won’t be able to do endgame content without all this mid-maxing is disheartening. I’ll see how long I make it though.
Yup. this is the reason I quit. Got to end game maps, found out the crazy hours I just spent building my character were for nothing because I picked the wrong skills. Can't even one button respec your skills like 95% of other games in this genre. It's for elites who want to spend their lives on a site devoted to "building" characters.... Cool. GGG must hate money and I'm cool w/ that. On to other things.
min-maxing.
I'm a new player and you made so many good points. Once you hit 75% through this video, that last 25%, I actually really like the mechanics you are putting down.
Also. You being a very experienced player, you can see all the impacts of the changes to the new looting system / economy / etc.
But I'm a new player, and trying to figure it out is part of the fun. I don't expect the game to tell me all I need to know. I feel like that it is too much to expect the game developers to anticipate every single question the player may have. In this day and age, going to google and finding a guide for my questions is very normal.
So overall, your expertise in this guide is very valid and evident. But you do not have a new / modern way of looking at things, which is this videos undoing. Cheers though! Loving to play a game and sharing your expertise is awesome :)
I can relate so much with this review. I started playing PoE a very long time ago, played for about a week or so but was too overwhelmed and didn't want to spend hours upon hours of learning so i gave up. I came back a few years later and i got into the game a lot more than the first time, played for almost 4 seasons. I never went on to learning to craft because that seemed like a full PhD which i wasn't ready to invest time into. I had my fun but as you said the fact they nerf builds to the ground ever season is what made me quit. I don't even have time to finish a build before it gets nerfed and rendered useless. I expect small balance changes in these sorts of games but not a full 180 turn every 3 months and pretty much restarting from scratch. Even if the season ends there's no point continuing the build in standard since it was nerfed so badly.
Complexity is fine. However new players can't really be expected to wrap their heads around every single system and currency and builds that might change and be bad in a patch or two. I think a game should stand on it's own without needing alot of 3rd party tools. Or those tools should be included in the game by the developers and kept up to date. If it feels like it's too much work before you even start playing the game it's going to turn alot of new players away. Most people just want to be able to jump into the game and by their own get to endgame. And learn while they are playing. But it's very unforgiving since respecs are expensive among needing to know alot of meta-knowledge that is not even explained in-game.
This video was excellent. You covered everything that bothered me about the game and why I quit. I tried to learn for 15 hours over several days. Watched guides, installed the addons, and I'm an experienced gamer. This game's barrier to entry is simply too high.
I really enjoyed POE for about 6 months until I realised how much time I had to commit to even get a half decent build. I sunk in at least 200 - 300 hours and reluctantly called it quits as it really isn't all that casual friendly.
I definitely agree that the barriers to entry are super high and convoluted, even if we consider that the target audience of PoE had always been tending towards the more "hardcore gamer" side. I have to take breaks due to irl stuff relatively often, and it's always a headache to not only catchup with new patches and league mechanics, but also update all the third party stuff, especially if something became obsolete compared to something else (like the good old trademacro being too slow to use, so I had to play the "guess which of these much faster and more user friendly trading tools aren't going to sell your data to China" game).
To get into PoE and be able to eventually enjoy it and just grind maps in peace with the nagging sense of wasting time due to inefficiency, one most be: 1. Already familiar with ARPGs because the tutorial is ass 2. either have very teacheresque and patient friends to explain stuff or be ready to watch literally hours upon hours of videos 3. have a better-than-average understanding of IT and be patient enough to constantly update and maintain use of all the third party stuff one needs to play efficiently 4. spend at least a good 50~ bucks during stash tab sale weekends, again, for efficiency 5. be willing to either have a huge chunk of content be impossible, or grind for 8+ hours for 2-3 weeks at least at the start of a new league. And these are just off the top of my head.
There are some minor exaggerations in this video, but the essential message is true, idk why or who would downvote this, it's basically factual.
I can relate with this video. I used to play different leagues a lot, but I never got that far because when I got to the point where it required homework, I just kind of lost interest and stepped away.
After the next league I would get into it again and do the same thing. I have found that if my group just play Standard, we can casually have fun, get sick of it or hit a wall, stop, and come back after they reset skill points to try different builds. It's been an extremely satisfying experience.
I recognize that I'm missing a vast majority of what the game has to offer, but I'm having fun. When I was younger I loved theory crafting, but now I just don't have the temperament or time.
You are right, the builds I tried to follow were outdated or required items I would never get, so they were useless to me beyond giving general ideas.
It is a blast to dip into different mechanics, do light crafting, chain different gems, and not worry about getting the "right" experience.
Yes, definitely. I think if there are casual players who still want to give it a shot, standard is the way to go. You lose out on any new mechanics and the economy may be a bit stale but at least you get to work at your own pace for the most part.
I’ve been away from RPGs for ages, but just started playing Torchlight 2, which has been in my game backlog since it was released. I’ve been having a complete blast, so started searching to see what’s out there now, and ran across this video. The video, and your comments are giving me a bit of Eve Online PTSD flashback, I worked one Eve Online (oops I meant played it,) for a few years, and while I had tons of fun in the game, it definitely was closer to a full time job than any game I’ve ever played.
I realized how bad it was when I started putting together massive spreadsheets for my Corp to track resources, manufacturing, mining, etc... Now I have ALWAYS hated doing spreadsheets at work, and suddenly I found myself spending hours inside spreadsheets each week for a game I was playing, for enjoyment. WTF?!? 🤪
You would need a doctorates degree to even start playing, its very intimidating and uncessesarily complex.
Not sure why so many new players think that. Very untrue in my opinion. All you have to do is google a guide and follow it.
@@kanifis fact!
@@kanifis Totally untrue, a friend of mine started and in one or two weeks he understood the core mechanics, and discovering everything is a pleasure that you'll experience only one time ! But hey this video is made for dumb people unlike Path of Exile !
@@kanifis the fact i gotta do that is not good man :/
@@kanifis But what if you want to play on your own without a guide? Exactly
Thanks for saving me time. I’ll just keep playing Diablo 3 and will wait for D2 remaster later this year. Pretty sad nowadays company’s have to rely on remasters to bring the magic back.
I use games to relax and have some down time, not to put countless hours into min-maxing or studying forums for ages in order to even be remotely competitive in progressing. I won't be returning to PoE so thank you for this video!
This video needs ggg response I can relate so much playing since pre beta.
their response will prob be wait for poe 2 for all these issues tobe addressed.
Hey man! I consider myself a new player to this game only having about 100hours in. Like 2 leagues ago haha.
I felt everything you said when it came to the convoluted crafting and currency gimmick.
Though I think end game is where I want to be. But like you said the elitist atmosphere of dare not ask for help you will just get flamed in #general chat. Having some sort of LIST of things I can make in game and mot having to deal with 3rd party crap would be nice. Because also I’m casual and my time wants to be spent IN GAME. Not the browser lol
Well anyways loved the vid. Going to sub now.
Always detailed. You have done your homework and saved us the pain. Thank you.
Wow, I've always heard good things about PoE but this is a real turn off. Thanks for the honest review.
BTW: you are absolutely 1000% right about casual players view the game. Thanks for making this video and expressing this viewpoint. How can most people be expected to completely change builds every 2-3 months? overwhelming
I'm at the end of Act 3. I just started playing last week. I really like this game, but I can see how the skill tree is going to really affect what I do in the later acts. The skill tree reminds me of Final Fantasy 10. I like the system, but it seems that this game is set up that in the later acts, the player must be a specific type of build in order to succeed. That is majorly flawed because of players like me. I like a well rounded and balanced character, which means that my skill tree is a mess of me branching off into a whole mess of different directions because I like to sample a little bit of everything. I hate to be pigeon holed into one or two specific types of builds. I don't like to be a "super soldier" when it comes to one or two things, but be weak as hell in other areas.
BTW, great video. I was laughing at your commentary about the hardcore players. I friended a couple of players already. One of them was super helpful and gave me a few items and tips to help get me started. The other one is definitely a hardcore player. He reminds me of a D&D nerd in his mom's basement. He's a nice guy too, but goes way to in depth on every single aspect of the game.
Hey first time on this channel. You are voicing out what i thought when I left poe 5 years ago. I just wanted to check what has happened after I played approx 1500 hours, it's still still has the same problems. Too many things added on top of each other without any synergy. Sad story of poe.
I’m thinking about starting the game. What is the trouble about this game??
It really reminds me of diablo3. Thinking able starting POE 1 or 2. Or elder scrolls online or black desert.. nice to get a honest review
I started playing again. And after 1 hour and 10 new things popping up, I found this video and will say goodbye to the game for now! THIS seems like to much work to do if you already from the beginning will never be good enough as a casual player.
Thanks for sharing this video.
Literally cancelled the download mid video, lol.
To be fair, everything he says is true, yet the game is still fun for a couple hundred hours if you don't absolutely have to do the endgame. Not bad for a free game.
Good video I think you adress the right points here.
I consider myself as an invested casual player, means if I decide to play a league I put more time into it as the avarage casual player but I also skip some leagues. But I remember way back at my first league, perandus, I came from Diablo 3 and was very overwhelmed by PoE, I couldnt get really into the game until Essence league. Now thats 5 years ago and the entire game has changed since then, I usually have only to catch up 1-2 leagues of content, but a total new player has to learn the stuff of the last 10 years.
In PoE knowledge is very important, many players might have a couple Exalts worth laying around without even knowing or struggle through campaign because they dont know how to level efficently. I find often myself in the boomer camp of "the game is not so hard" and not consider that I spend 6.000h into the game, more as in any other game and still don't know everything about it, need to look up a lot by making a new build, spending some hours before a league on what build I play.
PoE has so much 3rd party software you require to play the game efficent, poe wiki, exile craft, poe trade, path of building, poeLab, filterblade, etc.
PoE is a long steep learning curve and yes I wouldnt have got into the game if a friend of mine wasn't pushing me and conving me its better as Diablo 3. Path of Exile is hands down my favorite game and I spend more on MTX as in any other game.
I love the complexity of the game but GGG needs to rethink how to balance the game also for casuals and make it accessible, the recent nerfs to Head Hunter chance makes it obvious, some players will never touch this Iconic item and this is just sad.
The only other game out there that comes to my mind with so much change and patch notes going is League of Legends, one reason why I dont touch this game.
I'm annoyed this video has so many dislikes. You hit the nail right on the head, this is why I haven't come back to the game in 2.5 years. Every time I try again I get overwhelmed with how complex the latest league is, and all of the old league stuff is still there, so that's like 6-8 other leagues I missed complete with new itemization, areas, masters etc. It's just way too much to digest, and I put in probably 1000 hours into the game when I used to play back when Nemesis league was new.
Like you said, I am hoping that PoE2 strips the game back down to an easily digestible state that has a sensible progression and doesn't feel like a second job.
Thanks for making this video. It can be tough to criticize something that you love. I started learning about PoE after some of the sequel news came out, but I have to agree that jumping in now requires a level of dedication not everyone can commit to. I think I'll wait till PoE2 since the designs from the trailer really impressed me. #FingersCrossed
I think this is the only video I’ve ever seen the title SHOULD YOU PLAY *Game Title* in 2021? And have the answer be straight up, “No. You shouldn’t.” Lol I appreciate the honesty
Funny things I just starting poe today ( i played 20 hours in another life, I dont ever remember playing it before). I told myself "This is the video I need to watch" . Og god I was wrong :). Will watch your begenner guide I guess and will post in few days if you can still enjoy the game in 2021 for a total casual.
So far its pretty fun. lvl 37 probably around 12-15 hours of "real" gameplay ( i am at 36 hours total but I let the game running afk for a long time). But you definitly need to read a little bit and use a guide. Also the forum/board are filled with idiot. Few times I google a question or something, I got a guys asking the same question on a forum and there is no answer, only guys telling "use google nob" to the post which is conter-productive.
Have a nice day
I just started playing it for the first time with a friend and gotta say, we're enjoying it.
I know the company is called Grinding Gears Games but amouth of grinding you need to do in this is just absurd :D I sank about 70 hours into the game, completed the main story and killed first atlas boss. Then I realised that the game is just a chore at that point. Grind for currency, grind for maps, grind for more currency, grind for more maps, grind for sulphite, grind delve, grind for more sulphite, try for six link with your 300 orbs of fusion, fail, grind more orbs...
Way back when I was younger I sank hundreds of hours in Lineage II, some of it was fun (new people, clan wars, raids, sieges) but mostly it was grinding stuff to be able to have fun. I just realised that Iam burning all my free time on something I dont really enjoy, Iam not going out, I dont do sport too often, I dont socialize... just trying to get higher numbers in lvl, ingame currency and item stats. And for what really?
Path of Exile has for me that same gambling "slot machine" appeal. You always hope to drop something while mindlessly grinding the very same area for hours. After you drop the stuff, you get small rush of extasy and you keep grinding to drop more. Same with rare items. You finally get that sword you wanted, you have fun with it for 30 minutes and then you start grinding next one.
Iam still getting sucked into these games but after some 50 hours I usually realise Iam not having fun anymore, just wasting my life :D It keeps my satisfied at that point becouse of progression and feeling of sucess but looking back after a while, I only see wasted time. Cough... cookie clicker... cough
For whatever it's worth, I agree. I have been a gamer since the 80's. I have almost 3,000 hrs in DIablo III (I tell people I can almost play it in my sleep. I still play seasons now & then if they look interesting enough. Like the current Season 23). Also enjoy Grim Dawn. I started PoE in Jan & have about 300 hrs in with two character builds. One is lvl 55 Witch (Elementalist) Standard League. New one is a lvl 45 Templar SSF Standard. It's probably the most complex game I've ever played, including Destiny 2 (which I have almost 1,000 hours in). In Diablo III & Destiny 2, I help out new players (newbies) because I remember how hard it was to get any help from the many arrogant a'holes playing them at the time. It's a shame so many gamers forget their own beginnings & just want to lord it over everyone else. I think of them as wannabe Politicians. 🤷♂️🤨
I have yet to come across any toxic players not willing to help out newbies. I just got into it a few days ago and have put a good amount of time into it. I’m mostly using guides such as the build guides which are extremely helpful. Hope I can see more new people in this game as I’ve slowly started to enjoy it!
Well, you enjoy.
This video sums up pretty well why I keep trying to get into the game every league and I keep just getting frustrated and quitting.
I don't honestly mind that I don't progress as far as other players. I don't raid in World of Warcraft either. Using a guide to help me so far in the game, leaving it up to me how to fill the gaps until I can get the "perfect" items for a build is part of the gameplay. Its not Build Guide = Win. At least not any more. There are lots of choices for me to make myself.
HOWEVER... the FOMO aspect mentioned here is right on the money. They leave too many mechanics in the game, and so I don't know which master missions are a waste of time. Or whether to bother with Heist or Incursion. I usually will do some of that just for fun. But then I feel bad for not working on performing the Leap Frog conquerer strat to unlock my atlas. I get the feeling that the best way to get better currency and loot is to just get into higher maps. So if I don't understand where the other mechanics fit, other than some gameplay fun, then I should skip it.... or SHOULD I?
I'm at about 122hrs played after having to restart my character due to not following a guide, but thankfully people through Global chat have constantly been willing to help anytime I had questions or struggled with a boss. I've never opened the subreddit and have only read the build guide I follow. With that said I think new players can still enjoy themselves without the headache of keeping up to date with patch notes. The only sidebar being you really do have to pay for more tabs or else you're going to struggle with efficiency and upgrades.
A group of us wanted to give POE a shot at a small LAN a few weeks back; and of 6 players starting, I was the only on continuing playing after the weekend. Currently I have put around 80-ish hours into the game, so I think I have been giving it a fair chance, but I’m also done playing now.
I think you are completely correct when you say ‘it feels more like a chore or a job; than an actual game’.
Between us, we have played most RPG-game to launch on PC since the mid-90’s, and even to us, POE just does not feel intuitional at all, and most of the time we were playing the game, we didn’t really know why/how we were doing it.
Google really is your friend here; and in my experience there is 0% chance of completing anything in this game, if you are not willing to spend as many hours reading guides & build videos.
I can only imagine what an absolute nightmare it would be for new players that haven’t played RPG’s for the better part of 25 years.
Thanks for this honest review!
good rant, I didn't agree with everything you said but I believe it is important to make it simpler for newer players so they can appreciate the complexity when they are ready.
I actually enjoyed this game immensely for quite awhile, my only main issue with it was the lack of graphic quality in it for the base PS4. I don’t have a Pro or anything and am currently waiting for eventual PS5s to become a everyday thing for people lol. Anyway the graphics always took forever to load in textures or sometimes wouldn’t even do it period and that kinda through me off of the game after awhile. It’s not the only game like that though for PS4. Many of the newer Res games have this issue too like 7 and 8. I heard it even had the issues for people who do have PS5 as well with textures taking forever to load.
As for the complexity of the game, it is rather difficult but it’s not as hard I think as people make it out to be. I’m like a dumbass when it comes to most things lol so if I can even manage this game I think most people can play this. It’s just takes some time to really focus on what your doing and learn everything. It’s literally Diablo 2 on steroids with the gaming mechanics. With that being said I of course will always prefer Diablo and the easier gaming mechanics do make it much more fun and enjoyable however Path of Exile is also very enjoyable in its own way. It’s also significantly a longer game overall then Diablo 2 or 3, maybe even both games combined and that’s saying something. This game has 10 acts total I believe and there all like insanely long. Diablo games only had 4 at first and then 5 with the expansion added to them. And usually act 4 for 2 and 3 were far less long compared to the other acts. I would say this game overall is still a truly epic game and worth playing. But yes, it’s a extremely difficult game I think. I never even managed to beat it, even as good as I was doing, I only managed to get to Act 6 I think...or maybe it was7? I don’t quite remember. Shit got hard for me at that point.
Well i play PoE on SSF+HC for many Years now, but i absolutely agree with you in all points except one - Imo you can meet a lot of good of People in PoE, despite all of the known Streamers like Mathil, Ziz and Steel where you can learn a lot. Or you can participate in small private Leagues ( for example Terence's_), they have FAQ for Beginners and create a Build for Starters and offer help in Discord etc. So i asked multiple times for help and never got disappointed. Maybe i was a lucky case.
I just took a Break for 2 Leagues and even for me, which almost played every League is not easy to come back in and see all the new Stuff and Mechanics.
I have over 1k hours spread out over several years. I literally have zero idea whats going on to this day. I came back after year or something. Tried playing scourge for a few days.. and just instantly quit as soon as I started mapping. Everything feels so bloated, skills are nerfed, and the lack of currency drops is seriously frustrating.
Though the entire video does end up sounding like a rant, I can empathize quite a bit with it because some of my friends who are 'casual' POE players complain about some of the same things. The #1 thing I hear is that builds they are following have much better damage/survivability than their own characters and they have no clue on how they can upgrade their gear..
The only thing I wanted to add to the discussion is that to get to white/yellow maps (which is a lot of the endgame), you absolutely do not need the kind of gear you described which is a chore to obtain or that requires in-depth game knowledge. But yes, to get into high-tier red maps nowadays (ever since the boss HP buffs) you do need very very good gear for most builds. I think the game moved in this direction because a large portion of the loyal base (that returns each league to play) generally wants a harder/more challenging game. So you have to understand GGG's decision with that in mind.
perfect critique. this game peaked in 2014 for me. it was much slower like diablo, less of a convoluted mess. they atleast need to be more forgiving with respecs and allow you to easily fully respec your tree its ridiculous, youre right this game just feels like a full time job. Ive been playing since 2013 but take breaks every year or two and when i come back its like i never played at all cause they overhaul it so much
I recently am following a build guide and made it to end game yellow maps, but found myself spending 75% of time staring at POB/trading websites trying to figure out WTF im suppose to be doing or trading for or this mechanic or that, or obtain this crafting this, or blah blah blah ,it just never ends. its a full time job. not really fun when all I wanna do is complete all the maps and get some currency drops and could care less about a billion different convoluted mechanics.
theres a fine line between Diablo 2's simplistic greatness, though lack of end game, and then path of exiles completely bloated clusterfk of an endgame, and no enjoyable simplicity . So far theres not been any game to get a middle ground just right.
Totally agree with you. What is really painful is the hardcore players getting instantly killed by trash mobs. This game is incredible difficult I finished hardcore content in all games like D2,D3,GD yet normal atziri in POE seems incredible hard no matter the build I try to kill her with. And if she is that hard, not going to mention shaper or other end game bosses.
I hear yah .... but I'm going in anyway
I have been gaming for 30+ years, and Path of Exile may be the only game I ever played that actually made me hateful towards the developers.
-The one shots that takes 10% of your XP and prevents you from leveling.
-Disconnecting or crashes in trials so you have to start over.
-Forced always online.
-Game is "free" and not "pay to win", but you have to pay for bank space, and you need bank space. A lot of it.
-The purposeful lack of a working auction house. Extremely obviously so you will be forced to buy more bank space, so you can trade with the awful current trading system.
-Extremely random and overwhelming crafting.
Since I'm not interested in being a tradebot, that effectively destroys endgame for me and I just quit once I hit mid-endgame.
I'll never see any of the endgame stuff because I don't have the patience to trade and get the required gear.
Every league adds a whole new mess of currency (that doesn't fit in the currency tab) and crap to stash, once again purposely filling up your bank so you have to buy more tabs.
Flies like turds, which is why POE has so many fanboys defending this stuff.
Most of the players are just complete autists.
To be fair, the game is still a lot of fun up to the end stuff. A decent game that could have been one of the greats.
Lost potential.
Here's hoping that Path of Exile 2 will be a bit more streamlined experience. I'm a boomer playing since Talisman, but like a boomer I just can't keep up with the kids with their new crafting mechanics and materials. Nowadays I just stay in Standard and purchase whatever I need...
I started playing this game with trying to copy build guides, but when i found that impossible i rather tryed to build them to the extent i was able to instead, i remeber i was very irritated about how difficult it was to obtain allot of stats and items and so on. In the end i had allot more fun by just making lots of build that didnt do to well in the beginning until later when i had learnd ALLOT and started to really pop off, and now im at a point where i do endgame content every leauge. This took me an absurd amount of hours and i regret nothing, it was a fun jurney.
I went to grad school around Atziri, then worked a lot. Now came back for a quick casual way to spend some time. Krangled.
I downloaded the game, looked at the gargantuan skill tree and then contemplated my life choices that lead me to that moment while simultaneously setting my ps4 ablaze and kicking it out my window. Nowadays I pray to jyestha the Hindu goddess of misfortune to keep her from bringing back that nightmare of convoluted heresy you people call a skill tree.
Yeah I used to "grind" all the time back in 2012 through 2013. Got really into it but just the idea of getting back into it seems so daunting now. How many hours of videos would I have to watch to even get an idea of how to catch up? Which videos are even the right ones for me? It's a lot...
I just played a game where I neat every single boss twice, and I'm halfway to max level. Tbh, idk if I want to grind the exact same bosses for new gear. For reference, i did all this in like 13 hours, and it's a solely ftp mmo. Doing daily's, it should take like, 20 more hours if I don't join a guild of edgy/gay/furries to carry me.
I played this game when it first came out, a new look on Diablo, is what I called it, was incredibly fun. When I saw all the shit there was to learn/do in this game like, a year later, I threw my hands up in the air and said; 'Fuck this, I'm out.' Yes a lot can change in a year, but the amount of shit that changed IN THAT year was... just too much, game like Diablo 3, that put a portal in town so you can't bring mobs back to the first town, or added rift dungeons, or, made it where it wasn't just 4 modes anymore, like those changes take like, 2 hours to get used to, this game though... Holy... Shit... If you're gone for a year, or so, you come back EVERYTHING that was the way it was before, is changed. It's just too much. I agree with you, they are an awesome company for keeping things fresh, but... they def need a better tutorial guide, or to just... settle down...
Great review, and good recommendation of; 'No, don't join it now, it's too much.' -- I agree.
Yeah, I thought about trying it again but... after this, nope. Nicely done summary, thx!
What do you think, is Grim Dawn better for casual/semi-serious play than this?
Yeah hey, I agree, it is super convoluted and the amount of time one needs to spend on studying or understanding the mechanics combined with crafting the most appropriate items is ridiculous to be honest. I mean, I know some people are really good at gaming and probably require a league or 2 to kill all the content, but geez, I've invested a lot time and there's still so much I don't understand about this... I've actually decided to play one character and switch over to standard to perfect her. That's where I'm at.
Ridde for everyone who says "just follow a guide! There easy to follow!" Guides can only be followed if you can even understand what the guide says and means, meaning you have to at least understand a fair amount of the game to even translate the guides. seriously, everything from leveling guide, gem guides, gear guide, to a new player will completely go over heads. So nee players have to trial and error Poe and waste many hours just to be literate in POE before you can REALLY begin!
Thank you for this. This is exactly how I felt after getting into it during the legion league. After a while, it really just turns into a job. I sincerely hope Diablo 4 will not be so convoluted and just fun to play.
i hope D4 is good but activision owns the rights to it so dont get your hopes up
I started played PoE a few months ago and I was able to hop right in. Beat Act 10 boss with little to no issues, but I am an ARPG veteran (played a lot of Diablo 2, Grim Dawn, Torchlight 2, etc) so I had that at least.
I'm playing with someone that is completely new to the genre and he was struggling however. So i've been coaching and carrying (to beat Act 10) him because the information is vague for newcomers.
just started playing this last night and so far its been really really enjoyable. i’ve put a few hours in and im only a lvl 14 shadow lol. i love how insanely big the game is, reminding me of warframe a little. kind of sad to hear that i wont be able to progress throughout a majority of the endgame, but if i can get a couple hundred hours out of this then im happy :)
Your choice. 🤷🏻♂️
Thanks man, I'm kind of a casual gamer and I wanted something like Diablo... this is far too much of everything for me.
Try Grim Dawn - a real masterpiece !
@@Alkiskond I'll check it out, thanks!
Seeing how complex PoE has become, I wasn't sure about going back. But there is something that I still love about the game, and it is the music. PoE has top-notch music that captivates me and tempts me to return to the game, but since I have a potato pc and a lousy internet connection (making it impossible for me to progress through the Atlas), I prefer to play as a "casual" until act 10.
I completely agree with you with the game and how much of a hole this game is in because of the toxicity. But I'm going to play the game the way I want to play it. I'm just starting the game again from scratch now on Xbox ☺️. As for the tech tree I'm going to start from the begining and add new skills around like in circles so I won't miss any skill. See how well I'll do in the game like that. I really do enjoy the dialog and getting to know the characters and seeing the story line. I don't want to get involved in the trading and the other stuff you said because it's a huge headache and takes away the fun.
I agree with you, i m a huge fun of this style of games, the game generally is good i like it but sometimes i am feeling that it has many unnecessary mechanics and becomes a mess, too much content
Thanks for this video. I was thinking about to start to play it, while the Diablo 2 remaster is not release....
Yeah... I only touched this game for a moment some time ago, and after the most recent announcement of PoE2, it made me think its probably time to play this game, but after what you've been saying, it seems that jumping in would be a mess, of complex mechanics that change rapidly, and make other stuff useless over quick, kinda makes me hesitant to play, which sucks, because I do think the game looks fun from gameplay
did u play eventually
Game is good man its hard to make it far in leagues that is true but there is always perma sc or hc league that let you play at your own pace if you dont have 10h playtime per day. I agree on one thing, they make so much changes they buff a build than they nerf it and make some other build op that put me off like couple years ago like only builds that was consistant was rf and totems over the years and after a while they get boring. Poe in a nutshel league start-totems make it to maps- reroll into random flavour of the league skill- farm curency for es guardian Rf- rerol again thats it. They could add more skills and stop non stop changing old ones that would male game more fun for new players
I played from beta until 18-24 months ago & I stopped for exact reason you mentioned .. it's not because of its complexity but because it's a convoluted mess
You also need to play a build that is viable with very little currency just so you can earn currency to then buy items for the build you really wanted to play all along. To do that for most players means treating the start of most leagues like a job & putting many hours in each day because every day that passes in a league common drops become cheaper which means harder to earn larger amounts of currency .
So much this. Grim Dawn is very janky and graphically outdated but I love playing it. Grinding out SR in that game felt kinda boring but rewarding, and contributes to my end game goal by earning actual good gears and rare crafting components. A lot of PoE grinds it's neither rewarding nor fun. Felt like if don't trade or play with efficiency in mind I can't even get decent gears to clear any of end game stuff with my favorite skills.
For an ARPG with so much loot droping, its kinda sad that there is no fun in looting at all.
Video convinced me not to come back to it. I forgot why I stopped playing.
I think a really big point you're missing is that leagues are *not* for casual players. I am a casual player, with less than 500 hours in the game, and I dont think id ever play league. and I just play at my own pace and slowly build up currency that I can use to eventually get better items. Nerfing items and stuff does scare me though because having to do it all over again just to make a decent character is scary.
For a game that emphasizes builds of such complexity its crazy to me that things like skill tree planning is left to a 3rd party program. I hopped into the game on a recommendation from a friend and wasnt told anything about it and was playing it kind of like Diablo 3 which I had loved to play. I got to Act 3 and just building out how i felt like and was feeling so underpowered only to find out that my build was bad but they only let you respec a point at a time. I use to play Eve for like 5 years and even if that game is complicated it at least gives you the information you need to play properly without hamstringing your progress.
14:36 this happens to me a lot. I have about 400-500hrs on poe, and i have realized that it is very difficult to perfectly mirror a build. I tried replicating a voidfletcher ice shot build for my ranger, the build said you could easily do millions of damage when i reach end game, so i got all the necessary uniques and tried my damndest to get the right cluster jewels and rare gear pieces (cost around 5 div for all of is….a lot for me) but even with ALL of that, my damage output was not nearly enough.
And it seems the reason that my damage output isnt as much as said is because i cant afford to socket EVERYTHING with awakened gems. Even just one is them is way out my pay range, much less ALL my support gems, so now my ranger is at a stand still, and if makes me fee like i wasted my time trying to replicate what i thought would be my strongest build.
even as an experienced arpg player (playing GD on hardcore and some D3 as well) its pretty hard to get into. but its still fun. but for now im gonna wait for POE 2.
Wanted to install it seeing how it was in my Epic Games account for some reason. Glad I found this video and saved me some bandwidth. I'll go play something fun instead.
completely agree with you! i played over 3000 hrs (started in essence league) and although it was a lot of fun, and i really liked heist-league but tbh i'm now simply bored from the same old same old. in the current league i created a char but soon lost interest to play it til the end. i know i could but i simply just don't want to anymore. what always annoys me is that you have this highly complex skill tree, which should supposedly offer a lot of ways to play the game but basically there are only a few builds if you really want to make it to endgame content, so why all the fuss? the game is kind of dear to me, but it's also an hour-grave with no real reward at the end. you're so exhausted from grinding that you most of all feel worn out than rewarded. i don't see the point in continuing to play this game. i'll gladly leave it to the intellectually superior to bow to the monkey on the back that poe has turned into.
As an older gamer who doesn’t have the time to spend all day grinding or learning game mechanics I appreciate this. - This reads as a game that has gotten bloated with excessive pandering to a niche player base completely negating its appeal to anyone who is unfamiliar with the lexicon of PoE stats and mechanics. Good game design needs to be both approachable and hard to master. Also you can likely reduce a lot of redundant gameplay mechanics into simpler things without ruining the core gameplay loop. I think people get comfortable in their number games and grinding without really understanding that they’re basically repeating gameplay mechanics that doesn’t need that level of overhead, while simultaneously fearing or abhorring change that would actually be good for the game.. this is project scope creep in game format. Unfortunate.
Simplicity is key for a game of this nature!
Oh my God this review is so good, so accurate and so direct that I would give you an Oscar for it if I could.
Fat poe fanboys who are imprisoned in the basement by their parents from birth and all they can do is play poe don't know how toxic and unfriendly this game is for new players.
6 Months later on announcement of new league and this video is more and more relatable
Hey Stru you really should do videogames reviews you are so good at it
As a player that has only been playing path of exile for about a year but plays a lot, I agree with basically all the points you made in the video. In particular path of exile does an absolute horrible job teaching its systems to a new player. The one thing I will say is that if you are willing to look stuff up and you have a lot of free time I do find it a very deep and engaging game (yes I realize that is a tough ask). I just hope, like you, that ggg does a much better job teaching its systems to new players in path of exile 2.
The definition of hardcore is this game.
No, it's a definition of a hot mess!
I would't call poe hardcore. Darksouls games are hardcore, batman games are hardcore, ninja gaiden games (the original and the xbox/ps2 ones) are hardcore. Poe is a breeze as long as you pause the game, see a guide for what you are trying to do. Which is terrible game design. Lets talk about bosses for example, on any dark souls game, you can play defensively, learn the patterns and then proceeding to kill them. Everything is clear. On poe the first time i played against Katarina i had no fking idea what i supposed to do. Then i paused, watched a guide and obliterated her. Same with maven. Trash design.
seems like people want simple until they get bored and then they want complex until they get overwhelmed.
You hit on a problem with a lot of gaming in general. It is particularly a problem with ARPGs because they have very simple underlying mechanics, so the added complexity that keeps people playing is always going to feel somewhat artificial.
even when games find a balance between the two..people complain about some classes or items or w/e being too op or broken or what not.so in the end its always something. but i rather have that than having a game i like but cant get into because it wants to be overwhelming with bs. i just wanna play a game man not have a second job.
this kinda bums me out because the game really looks beautiful.. and i kinda relate to what you're saying from other videogames
man why are most RPGs just either dead, dying, or going into shit its just sad im just looking for something that makes me feel like i did when i first played torchlight
it's just depressing.
Thanks for the insight man! New Sub!!
I agree with complex vs convoluted. I believe its is too convoluted now especially having to go to discord to buy harvest crafts in the last league. I have quit after playing nearly 5000 hours
A lot of the criticisms in this vid can also be selling points for some people, I am a fan of the extreme complexity and grind
The truth has been spoken, a great game in dire needs of all sorts of QoL.
i had two characters i got to end game last year, then i quit because i dont like having to buy my gear from other players with some currency that barely dropped in maps anyway.
other than that i had no real problem with the game even as a "new player" .i came from hard games where you had to look up shit constantly until you become skilled, i appreciate complicated games that's why i tried it lmao.
Yeah I have completed a map, but no I never finished my ascendancy. I have a level 70 and went as far as a Tier 5 map. In wow (WoD) I have completed mythic raids as healer, but I would never tell someone those things are easy. Hell mythic +2 keys fail frequently when players don't know what to do, let alone a 6. I have never got to maps in one day of playing. I gave up on PoE because I was tired of people telling me it's easy. Last played July and even after 400 hours of playing, I have no idea what I'm doing. I have 3 builds, with 3 authors each, and even after being able to do more damage, I still didn't feel like I was getting anywhere, and I mostly play solo. Hell Kitava is still hard for me when I see players speed run that boss for farm. I'm very sad to fear harvest is getting a nerf as this was my primary method of trying to get non-random modifiers because the developer said and I quote, too much reward. Maybe this is true for an end game player, but certainly not for me. I don't know what gear to select, what to sell, where to farm, what to farm, and I might play the new league, but after I reach a brick wall with a T7 map, I'm done.
As someone who loves RPGs a never been able to put more than 3h into POE this video pretty much proved why it isn't worth it for me. I don't mind complex games, online trading, and economy (hell I used to play WoW during Vanilla/TBC/WOTLK) and put just over 1k hours into Warframe.
Few issues I see with POE
Visually boring, convoluted mechanics, microtransactions (I much prefer WF since you can earn platinum and cosmetics are pretty reasonably priced), build plays the same so yeah great you can build 1000 different variations with the same playstyle, story, and setting is pretty boring.
But the worst part is the community
Back in the days of my WoW addiction (god I feel old), the community was great (at least on the server I played on and with a pretty chill guild) more recently Warframe also a nice chill community, helpful for begineres, no drama.
In the end, I'm glad I found Last Epoch recently, for me that's great arpg (GD started to get pretty repetitive).
Anyway, great video no unfound nitpicking just a reasonable critique.
I 100% Agree. I took a league off and when I came back felt like I knew nothing (which I don't because its my second league). I also agree with the elites parts especially on console. Take any item on pc and x the price by 5-10 sometimes and that is the price on console. I see new players bring it up all the time. To where the top % just go if you don't like it quit the game. ITs economics less players reach end game this isn't pc so less rare items on the market either pay up or don't you can leave.... n I read it every day and go wow. I use to be like that items that should be 20-30c are 5 ex and to a new player who don't know how to make money that's a disaster along with getting hounded at by the so called elites to just leave if you don't like it. Yet, if you were to ask how can I make a lot of money to afford items you will get the answer. Just get to end game. No one will teach you how to farm currency the proper way or even make decent currency at league start. I think the only thing that keeps me coming back is I hope to make enough currency to try those fun builds people use. I also someday hope I can find a build that destroys league starts and methods to make tons of currency during the first 4 days of a league. I hope to make a mirror some day but the game feels like a chore I get burnt out. After an 8 hour session I go what am I playing for? I could have put that time into anything else and got better return on investment. I love games don't get me wrong but when a game makes you question playing game and the time you put in to it thats when I feel I should stop at least leave the season. So much to say but I'm glad I'm not alone. I can't even recommend the game to friends because of how much there is to be succesful in it. Especially can't get my console friends into it with how its elitist community is. This is coming from someone who has beaten maven sirusA8 elder, uber elder ects.