great vid!! thank u for framing this as a labor issue too. i also have to wonder if this (secondary) theft is a pattern, and whether this is a strategy this guy learned from someone else. im hoping for repatriation asap, thats the absolutely bare minimum the british museum could do at this point
a few weeks ago I went to the british museum for the first time in years, and for the first time since learning A LOT more about museums and repatriation efforts. i was obviously expecting the stolen stuff, but I was also expecting that there would be at least SOME context for it? i was hoping they had incorporated some critical historical perspectives, maybe would acknowledge how a lot of the exhibits came to be there. but all i got was visual spectacle, really. it seemed like a space almost opposed to learning, not just on the level of colonial history but also on just providing general information on the artifacts? it's all grand and beautiful and very, VERY busy, but I think it's the first time in years I've left a museum feeling like I'd learnt nothing new.
Hey! I found your channel because I need to do a research paper about a current issue in the GLAM professions! Thank you for your great content and sources!
Fantastic video; thank you for sharing! The British Museum has such a bad record for this sort of thing; there are small, regional museums in other parts of the UK with significantly less funding that have better ethical track records.
You have no idea of the scale of this problem. The British Museum heads up the Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS) This is the body that metal detectorists have to hand their treasure finds to, by law. Guess what! Items are stolen from regional museums before they even reach London. I personally lost a 3000 year old gold lock ring which I found and handed in back in 2019. Although an arrest and recovery has been made, no prosecution has as yet been made. Twelve other treasure finds were stolen from the same museum. Andy
Thankfully, laws and ethics are eternal and unchanging, else the whole business of who has rights to artworks and artifacts would become needlessly murky and unstable. For example, materials removed from a land before any government or laws existed there must surely be entirely unproblematic (if there were no laws, then none were broken, surely). And of course repatriation to an entity not in existence at the time of the purported theft (say, a subsequently established regime) would be nonsensical. If any repatriation is to occur, it must be to the persons/entity that owned the stolen material at the time of the theft, or their legal heirs.
this answer is non-sensical. If there was no culture, there would be no artifacts. If there were artifacts (or bodies) then there was a culture, with its own rules and laws and ethics, even if these were not codified the way ours are. They should be respected. You're right, the entities that claim these artifacts may not have existed at the time the artifacts were stolen, which is why most museums engaged in repatriation efforts take great pains to ensure that artifacts are returned to the proper representatives.
Well, if this is all so straightforward, who would be the proper owner in this hypothetical: American WWII combatant is a tailor, strips Hugo Boss designed Nazi uniform off of German soldier he has killed in combat because he recognizes the artistry and construction of the gear; gets it home to Texas, to study and learn from it (yeah, kinda gross, but nonetheless). Decades later, his heirs donate to the Met's costume institute. Dead combatant is entirely unknown. Should the uniform be returned to a German government that claims no connection to the Nazi party of the 1930s? Perhaps to a current incarnation of the Nazi party currently active in Germany? And that is a very recent situation. What about a sword carried by a troop of rapacious murderer conqueror Genghis Khan? It's really not clear to me what applying 20th/21st century laws and morality to 12th century tyrants achieves. Perhaps the sword should by rights belong to descendants of the khan's many victims (who probably number in the billions). You say "with its own rules and laws and ethics, even if these were not codified the way ours are" -- so "by right of conquest" as in Khan's day is perfectly acceptable, just not "by right of conquest" as applied to Victorian era England? I guess I'm confused. @yrcanlitprof1144
I don't think there were Greece when the artefacts were taken, mostly with the agreement of the Ottomans, mostly given because of bribes. No one cared about antiquities in Greece and other countries before the 20th c.
Most of those artifacts were taken sold by villagers back then since they didn't understand the importance of those artifacts. Mostly the the sculptures were sold because people thought sculptures would mean idolatry so they didn't mind selling them. Also some of the big artifacts like Pergamon museum in Berlin were stolen while they were building railroads in Ottoman land. They built railroads during day, at night they smuggled artifacts. The Mausoleum of Halicarnassus is in British Museum, there is no way government would agree giving it Brits.
The Eqyptians are particularly bad at revisionism. They are going after the Canarvons for finds in the lead up to the discovery of King Tut even though they reneged on the 50/50 agreement they had with him when they found Tut's tomb. They are complaining about those artefacts but not the ones from the same expedition he sold to the Americans
It is sad to hear that items have been stolen from the British Museum's collection. I for one do not agree with the current view that the museum filled with stolen items. If that is the case, then almost every museum in the world is filled with stolen items because unless the creator of the item turned it over to the museum then the item was taken from somewhere else.
Has anyone ever attempted to sue them in the British court system?
great vid!! thank u for framing this as a labor issue too. i also have to wonder if this (secondary) theft is a pattern, and whether this is a strategy this guy learned from someone else. im hoping for repatriation asap, thats the absolutely bare minimum the british museum could do at this point
I can already tell this goinna be juicy😳
The irony.
a few weeks ago I went to the british museum for the first time in years, and for the first time since learning A LOT more about museums and repatriation efforts. i was obviously expecting the stolen stuff, but I was also expecting that there would be at least SOME context for it? i was hoping they had incorporated some critical historical perspectives, maybe would acknowledge how a lot of the exhibits came to be there. but all i got was visual spectacle, really. it seemed like a space almost opposed to learning, not just on the level of colonial history but also on just providing general information on the artifacts? it's all grand and beautiful and very, VERY busy, but I think it's the first time in years I've left a museum feeling like I'd learnt nothing new.
Great show, with centuries of steeling experience, these thefts could be pre planned, so they don’t have to return these to the rightful owners.
Hey! I found your channel because I need to do a research paper about a current issue in the GLAM professions! Thank you for your great content and sources!
I’ve read a couple of articles and really looking forward to your video! And perfect photo too 😅
Fantastic video; thank you for sharing! The British Museum has such a bad record for this sort of thing; there are small, regional museums in other parts of the UK with significantly less funding that have better ethical track records.
Because all the big ticket items are kept in London.
@@04nbod London museums do have a lot, but that's even more reason why they should make more efforts to be more ethical in their practices.
Have you seen that Zahi Hawass interview? he was furious!
Ironic, considering artifacts have gone "missing" under his care too
You have no idea of the scale of this problem. The British Museum heads up the Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS) This is the body that metal detectorists have to hand their treasure finds to, by law. Guess what! Items are stolen from regional museums before they even reach London. I personally lost a 3000 year old gold lock ring which I found and handed in back in 2019. Although an arrest and recovery has been made, no prosecution has as yet been made. Twelve other treasure finds were stolen from the same museum. Andy
🏴☠️👍
i really like this channel, id make the edits faster. title is good, thumbnail could be better. i like you stuff tho, instant sub
Thankfully, laws and ethics are eternal and unchanging, else the whole business of who has rights to artworks and artifacts would become needlessly murky and unstable. For example, materials removed from a land before any government or laws existed there must surely be entirely unproblematic (if there were no laws, then none were broken, surely). And of course repatriation to an entity not in existence at the time of the purported theft (say, a subsequently established regime) would be nonsensical. If any repatriation is to occur, it must be to the persons/entity that owned the stolen material at the time of the theft, or their legal heirs.
this answer is non-sensical. If there was no culture, there would be no artifacts. If there were artifacts (or bodies) then there was a culture, with its own rules and laws and ethics, even if these were not codified the way ours are. They should be respected. You're right, the entities that claim these artifacts may not have existed at the time the artifacts were stolen, which is why most museums engaged in repatriation efforts take great pains to ensure that artifacts are returned to the proper representatives.
Well, if this is all so straightforward, who would be the proper owner in this hypothetical: American WWII combatant is a tailor, strips Hugo Boss designed Nazi uniform off of German soldier he has killed in combat because he recognizes the artistry and construction of the gear; gets it home to Texas, to study and learn from it (yeah, kinda gross, but nonetheless). Decades later, his heirs donate to the Met's costume institute. Dead combatant is entirely unknown. Should the uniform be returned to a German government that claims no connection to the Nazi party of the 1930s? Perhaps to a current incarnation of the Nazi party currently active in Germany? And that is a very recent situation.
What about a sword carried by a troop of rapacious murderer conqueror Genghis Khan? It's really not clear to me what applying 20th/21st century laws and morality to 12th century tyrants achieves. Perhaps the sword should by rights belong to descendants of the khan's many victims (who probably number in the billions).
You say "with its own rules and laws and ethics, even if these were not codified the way ours are" -- so "by right of conquest" as in Khan's day is perfectly acceptable, just not "by right of conquest" as applied to Victorian era England? I guess I'm confused. @yrcanlitprof1144
I don't think there were Greece when the artefacts were taken, mostly with the agreement of the Ottomans, mostly given because of bribes. No one cared about antiquities in Greece and other countries before the 20th c.
Most of those artifacts were taken sold by villagers back then since they didn't understand the importance of those artifacts. Mostly the the sculptures were sold because people thought sculptures would mean idolatry so they didn't mind selling them. Also some of the big artifacts like Pergamon museum in Berlin were stolen while they were building railroads in Ottoman land. They built railroads during day, at night they smuggled artifacts. The Mausoleum of Halicarnassus is in British Museum, there is no way government would agree giving it Brits.
The Eqyptians are particularly bad at revisionism. They are going after the Canarvons for finds in the lead up to the discovery of King Tut even though they reneged on the 50/50 agreement they had with him when they found Tut's tomb. They are complaining about those artefacts but not the ones from the same expedition he sold to the Americans
Or people who knew exactly what it was and wanted some money. Not everyone is as interested in this stuff. @@duygu1616
Why do you think the Islamic Ottomans would care about British people taking a pagan tomb?@@duygu1616
It is sad to hear that items have been stolen from the British Museum's collection. I for one do not agree with the current view that the museum filled with stolen items. If that is the case, then almost every museum in the world is filled with stolen items because unless the creator of the item turned it over to the museum then the item was taken from somewhere else.
Yes, and almost every museum in the world with stolen artifacts is currently taking a hard look at their collections and repatriating items.
The British Museum cannot legally get rid of anything in its collection. Its owned by the state. @@professorpeachez
@@04nbodbut the Museum could review their collections and recommend returning items to their lands of origin to the parliament. But they don’t.