Heavily agree. I think MGS GZ makes Omega work by being its own place, as well as tying in Cold War era events as well as organizations. For example, a mission has Snake taking on two US combat personnel that caused massive amount of casualties to the communist forces in Vietnam. Considering the US completely lost the war that year, it totally makes sense as to why the KGB would ask Kaz to ask his boss to take out the pair, since they could do so without any sort of retaliation. A prisoner in the main GZ mission also mentions how various intelligence agencies like MI6, BND, ISI (who play a huge role in MGSV, just in the background), all came together under one roof for nefarious purposes. Especially with how dark the US was during the Vietnam and Cold War period, Camp Omega represents that extremely well.
if your talking about the Presidents handshake I would'nt say that that was the start of his descent per say but it was definatly a turning point in his life.
Basicly Zero wants to control the worlds unity through information and his control of it... Big Boss wants to control the worlds unity through military force and his control of it... they both forgot what they were fighting for when they became mortal enemies. Any zeloet will know that when you become obssesed with the enemy you become the enemy... only difference is your on the other side of the fence
'If you are not a hardcore Metal Gear Solid fan, this video is not for you' Well, you're wrong there. I've somehow gone without playing a single Metal Gear game, yet I could follow this analysis perfectly well and thoroughly enjoyed it (as I have enjoyed all of your other analyses). Great job, and thanks for turning me on to an interesting looking film as well
After having played both GZ and TPP and looking deeper into the themes of GZ, I've come to realize, Skullface's comments about society murdering the innocenthas nothing to do with big boss or the MSF Skullface is talking about Chico and Paz, much like Sacco and Vanzetti are innocents, their only real crime being following Big Boss and the ideals he represented, while Paz herself was a Cypher agent, she was ultimately another casualty of war as TPP's tapes would reveal, my best guess is that this was supposed to establish the consequences of Big Boss's actions, how this cold war between him and Zero are causing innocents to die Wich is great and commendable if it wasn't for how little real screentime Chico and Paz get... Chico even gets reduced to a namedrop in the tapes with both their deaths getting buried in the major plot of TPP
@Gubbins Chico betrayed... first the Sandinistas in Peace Walker and then Big Boss in Ground Zeroes... i agree that he goes through a bunch of trauma, but if Chico hadn't died in the helicopter crash, he would have been a dead man soon after
Your assessment is pretty well constructed. I just don't share the same philosofy. I can take Metal Gear as serious as it wants to be, I am personally not affected by the disparity in tonality between GZ and the previous Canon. In fact, I can take all the things you list as "ridiculous" and "campy" at face value.
I feel the same, George does pose a great argument but it really is very subjective. Personally I have no issues with the darker tone and continuity, I'll treat TPP as its own game and judge it that way. Besides, I don't think a more lighthearted tone would fit where the story is leading with Big Boss turning into a villain and it definitely wouldn't sit right with the heavy themes he's trying to express.
I guess I'm just used to Japanese entertainment and how strange yet serious they can be. I'm a fan of Neon Genesis Evangelion which deals in a lot of heavy adult themes and ideas... yet is still a show with a monster of the day scenario, fan service, giant robots, quirky humor, etc. So I dunno, Metal Gear has always had that same air about it for me and Ground Zeroes isn't really all too different. It's sort of like how people say that the series has changed so much since it began, but it kind of hasn't. It's still an infiltration game, with the mechanics and technology evolving with each iteration.
I think what he's trying to say is that the wacky shit isn't what doesn't work in Metal Gear; what doesn't work in Ground Zeroes specifically is that that wacky shit is nearly gone. NGE is kind of a bad example because, unlike Metal Gear, it doesn't have 25 years of wacky yet serious aesthetic coming before it in its specific universe. It doesn't have, what, 7 or 8 different series all centered around this aesthetic.Metal Gear does, and while Ground Zeroes can still be serious, I think what most people are concerned about is this very wide jump is aesthetic and tone and feel. If this were a new game without the baggage MGS has to contend for, it wouldn't have to jump these hurdles. But it does, and the game feels like it's struggling to find a balance between what it was and what it wants to become.
That makes sense. I suppose it coming right off of Peace Walker like George mentioned definitely makes it a jarring turn. I like the turn, but I get how strange and drastic it may come across for others.
Mitchell Hammond I agree, I liked the game a lot and I like that it's going in a more serious direction. However I don't think Ground Zeroes was perfect, and it did feel like an awkward balancing act for Kojima. How do we delve into issues like this while still keeping the game Metal Gear? It's not easy, and I'm not surprised that the transition is a bit hard for a lot of people to swallow.
This is a really interesting intersection of Ideas you bring up. In general the entertainment/ 'show cannon' for lack of a better term intersecting with real world events and philosophies does create a hard intersection. I guess I feel the difference here is the use of events or philosophies. In Eva the heavy bizzare intersection comes from religious ideals, Dada ism, Freudian philosophy in a pure form, and metacontexuality. Which is more akin to MGS2. In this Part 1 of MGS V, the intersection as clearly pointed to in the video doesn't really come from philosophy but events and places. Guantanmo, before it exists tied to a political movement that never happened for XYZ and the characters may have their own reasons or philosophy but none of that seems to be on the level of mech development in the story. It's nuance and part of the fiction. Also I feel a key difference between MGS and EVA is the continuity. Even mechs in these prequels create an issue as the more there are the less novelty and awe 'Metal Gears' have, as apparently there were a glut of pre-branded mechs prior to that line. So what makes it a 'Metal Gear' and not a Peacewalker, and just things like that come in on themselves. Where as EVA always rebuilds or does a sojo line as the property continues. Each set in their own universe, avoiding the continuity problem all together. -or- TLDR: MGS:has continuity problems. EVA: Always reboots when they do a new thing.
even if you used EVA I can see your point, theres a lot of seinen that touches this dark themes in a similar way and at the same time they have some humour and a lot of fantasy/sci fi elements like yes, giant robots/mechs... maybe is something cultural, I dont know, something from Yoshiyuki Tomino or Kentarou Miura that have a lot of important messages despite the giant mechas or elfs the thing is, i dont think he even payed attention when playing Peace walker or if he just using whats convenient to him for this critic if he thought MGS was something like "tom clancy novels with marvel fantasy" he should have notice that IS NOT a long time ago... I only watched his MGS annalysis videos and they are nice even when we are years away from the games launch and theres a lot of writing analysis and theories since those days but i think he is not familiar with seinen or mechs and Japanese cyberpunk and also he is a pc gamer so...
a misstep on this guy's part about how the sacco e vanzetti concept falls apart because of a lack of sympathy for big boss. the whole idea was about Paz aka the idea of peace....sacrificing herself FOR big boss, who she has grown attached to because he provided her with a home. and in my opinion that makes it a sympathetic cause
You raise some very good points, but overall, I tend to have to disagree with that the rest of the canon exactly devalues the seriousness of Ground Zeroes. The campiness and over the top narrative was always something to be taken at face value of the series, not something to be taken as a definitive tone. The series always tried to address serious themes such as the one's in this game, although more subtly, and it can be argued that these themes in previous games were kind of invalidated by the campiness of the previous titles. One thing that was disappointing that you didn't bring up, around the parts when you were discussing the morality of Big Boss. The nature of the antihero and an audiences ability to connect with them despite all the awful things he had done. Take a look at antihero figures such as Tony Sopranos and Walter White. People who did bad bad horrible things towards others, and yet, the audience of these shows were able to still heavily connect and show sympathy towards these people. Hell, people still cared for Tony even though he killed his cousin (another major character for the series) for no real reason other than he was bothersome. I don't feel this raises questions about an audiences "morality" but rather just goes to show how grey things can get. Hell, I'd myself be lying if I said I didn't feel for Tony in episodes like Join the Club despite the awful stuff he had done. I felt you kind of approached Big Bosses actions with a black and white moral compass too much and tried to invalidate him on the basis of a sympathetic character for this. Sometimes we feel more sympathy for a character due to how morally dark their actions can get. I feel that stating that Big Boss is already a unsympathetic "villain" because of how he had constructed Mother Base doesn't really do any justice to what your trying to get across. Especially since we all have done some pretty fucked up bad stuff every now and then which would conflict with our "good" moral values. We're not perfect, and sometimes it's the imperfections which make us connect with one another.
dude phantom pain was the biggiest dissappointment of my life. Ground zeroes was great at hyping it up major along with the e3 trailers i watched everyday
Very interesting video. I do have one objection though : The fact that Boss is a 'villain' (as the mercenary, nuke-crafting warlord that he is) does not mean you can't feel any sympathy for him and his hardships. Anyone who has ever read Shakespeare's Macbeth knows you can empathize with even the most traitorous and vile antagonists. Hell, some people (including me) even consider Macbeth to be a hero, and not a villain, which seems to be strongly wanted by the author given the way he wrote his character. The fact that a story's character shows ruthless and immoral behavior doesn't prevent you from appreciating his ambitions, or justifying his means by considering his goals, or even feeling pity for him when his unavoidable demise comes. What's often the strongest source of admiration for a villain is the strength of will that villain deploys to accomplish his dreams, because we tend to value determination and loyalty to one's cause. This is true for Big Boss too.
I want you to know that out of this entire comment section of fucking awful gamer takes, this one brought me closest to physically vomiting with disappointment before I gave up entirely.
I live in Primorsky krai and we don't have MGS3 kind of forests at all. Svyatogorniy I guess is the closest to what we have. And also, it located in Asia near Chinese border literally thousands of kilometrs away from where it showed in the game.
Yup, I've provided two links in the description from two different perspectives. One from an Australian media agency, the other from the US Pentagon's own media agency.
Malvo McVeigh how the fuck is big boss not a villain he threatens the world with huge robots and nuclear weapons when he's not trying to hide them from the UN he feeds on other people's wars and makes money causing death and destruction he kidnaps war orphans and turns them into soldiers his "nation of soldiers free of politics who can make their own destiny" is just an overglorified huge group of dirty mercenaries who can only exist as long as there is war and chaos in the world pretty sure you're the one misunderstanding the character
***** Nope. He recruited child soldiers, found Kaz by snatching him and killing his comrades before recruiting him into his group, left Kaz to pursue building Zanzibar Land, used one of his men as a shield/decoy, kept nuclear weapons as a deterrent, lied about keeping said nuclear weapons, lied about his ideology of MSF, and believes that perpetual war is the best. He pretty much did all that to fulfill a dying woman's words (which he may have misinterpreted) which he came into question about why she left him alive. Point is that Big Boss ain't no tragic hero he's a tragic villain like Zero. He crossed every line he could and in the end regretted his actions.
I didn't find the rape tape to be offensive. What I found really f---ed up was what Paz says at the end after the act. She basically asks Chico if he wants to do it again. Now THAT is weird. What that being said, it might be worth it to re-examine GZ now that TPP is done. I actually think GZ was more enjoyable than PP.
MegaPhilX l always think of GZ like the Tanker Chapter. lt sets up to give us what we want and then the rest of the experience played us like a damn fiddle.
It was supposed to be like the tanker chapter, but it falls flat due to time constraints :/. I still think GZ is one of my favorites in the series in terms of gameplay and story, and gives a perfect setup to TPP buuut it just doesn't come through.
I felt like it was a lot more humanizing to her shift from evil villain Paz to the Paz in the secret tapes from PW. She loves everyone at Mother Base. She knows he doesn’t want to hurt her, and because he’s just an innocent kid, she comforts him in the best way she thinks possible. Still weird as heck and makes me super uncomfortable, but isn’t excessive.
Also, your remarks on how its hard to root for Big Boss because he isnt good and "no good person should have to hide things" blows my mind considering how in every other video you seem to understand so much about this series. The whole Big Boss "saga" is about how he doesnt have a moral compass because he realizes that this changes with the times. Remember? It's so weird how you are making an analysis of this character and disregarding everything he was created to be. Also, the pont of "Here's to You" is not just about Sacco and Vanzetti. It's also a song Joan Baez sang during her concerts during her Latin America tour in the 70's, when the military dictatorships supported by the US kept her from singing onstage at the last minute. See?
What he says is also absurd seeing as it implies hiding behind a cause (patriotism, nationalism, political ideology etc.) mitigates the kind of atrocities state militaries commit both in real life and in this fictional game and at least partly absolves them of their sins. Big Boss knows the system perverts politics into unethical military operations and seeks to operate outside this; hiding from the UN is an acknowledgement that MSF would be a very soft target if they rocked the boat. He's far from innocent, but you can see the good intentions behind his actions, and this is what makes the slide to villain such a interesting thing to observe.
Yeah, totally. Speaking of such defined lines of good and evil in Metal Gear lore and in Military Context makes little sense, and associating "good" with the UN is too simplistic - especially considering what I've come to expect out of this channel.
gabrieltdelima honestly kind of on your side on that and also may I add? I genuinely didn’t expect less from what seems to be a philosophy minor. Something you realize when taking his arguments. First, Snake eater, not jungle but swampy forest. Second, not Russia but the Soviet Union. Even in today’s Russia there are swamps mountains and forrrest. And there were even more in the Soviet Union counting all the countries like the Stans and the eurpean countries that separated from them on the 90’s, third ground zeroes more than a prefix to the phantom pain is more like an epilogue to peace walker if compare to snake eater where the campy jingoistic American patriotism its flip on its head by the end . The same happens with the very accurate but also campy feeling of Costa Rican people and the Sandinista in peace walker. And it works because at the end of snake eater he gave up in patriotism and in piece walker he gave up in humanity it self but the repercussions don’t hit till ground zeroes.
Also I don’t want anyone to think I meant philosophy minor as an insult he did a great job with metal gear solid two video. I just guess he study a minor while studying a major in something else. Because he kind of sucks at in geography and Latin American history. That from a Latin American myself I can tell Kojima did take into account.
@@marceloenriquegarciagarcia4754 Everything you said is wrong. Kojima literally went out of his way to make a jungle for MGS3, go look at all the press for it. He doesn't describe "swampy forest" (which is somehow inhabited by snakes, alligators and mosquitoes?), he literally says "jungle". Russia and USSR are basically interchangeable. Ground Zeroes is not an epilogue to Peace Walker at all except in a story sense, it was designed from the beginning to be the opening of Phantom Pain until Konami stepped in and told Kojima that he was spending to much time and money on a project that they believed did not justify it. The development of Peace Walker was so far removed from Phantom Pain that you can basically say that Snake Eater contained more inspiration for characterization, plot, etc.
5:20 - It's not Guantanamo Bay. Ground Zeroes never said it was. Yes, it's in Cuba, but that doesn't mean it's the exact Guantanamo Bay. It's a fictional black site. For this fact alone, you would have to argue for GB to be the first and only detention center in American history in order to say a detention center in 1975 is anachronistic. The location in Ground Zeroes is also mentioned as a black site, which means it's unofficial and secretive. It's not like the public is privy to everything the government does. This is all not even to mention that the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base that the detention center resides within was established in 1941, not 2002. We can also point to a detention center being used there as early as 1991 to unconstitutionally imprison HIV-positive refugees. Lastly, there are two guards in the east refugee camp talking about how they've just started using the old prison area for some reason outside their pay grade and how the base is starting to feel like a prison. This heavily implies that this isn't a detention facility on paper. 7:00 - Chico: Chico finds the incision on Paz, he yells to snake and stands, but is clearly seen having trouble taking steps, Snake also picks Chico up and moves him, once again exemplifying the difficulty Chico has moving in his current state. Barcodes Over Cutscene: Stylistic reference to what is most likely gene sequencing, possibly hinting at what comes in Big Boss's future. Maybe the fact that it shows the barcodes first when it shows the soldiers in the helicopter and again when it shows Big Boss is a hint that Zero has already started using Big Boss's genetics to enhance or create the XOF soldiers. Either way, it's stylistic and most likely symbolic foreshadowing. You might as well ask why some directors use certain filters and lens flare in their films. iDroid: Yes, because Metal Gear Solid has always had completely realistic technology. We had sonar that you could carry in your pocket and detect enemy combatants with during the Cold War like in MGS3, right? I'm also sure MI6 has agents just like Bond all using cars with stealth technology and watch-sized lasers capable of melting through steel without any obvious external power supply. 9:00 - Maybe later he'd be hard to root for, but at this point in the story, he's a hero who was betrayed by a government that's been corrupted. You say no good person's to-do list should include document destruction . . . not even if they were documents a bad person or organization was going to use against you? I guess the US military shouldn't destroy documents that contain intel terrorists could use against them because good people don't destroy documents. You seem to be completely ignoring the context of Big Boss's situation. 17:00 Rape is inherently distasteful, that's the point. You also seem to forget that Skull Face is a code name. Also, the number one synonym for "gratuitous" is "unjustified", so allow me to ask when torture, and particularly rape, would ever be justified? Once again, this is the point. The rape is not supposed to be justice. It's not supposed to be tasteful. You're supposed to find Skull Face distasteful and unjustified in his action. I also can't comprehend your gripes with having one mission clearly meant to be fun and another clearly meant to tell a disturbing tale. Yes, they're part of the same game, but they're not meant to interplay narratively. I'm not trying to be an asshole, but this was poorly researched and thought out. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion, but if your opinion comes coupled with objectively incorrect facts, like the ones I've cited above, I have say it is wrong. I only recently found this channel and was loving everything it offered until this point. Once again, not to be an asshole, but I expect you to address these points. If I'm wrong about these things, offer me the counter-evidence, please, but at least acknowledge and explain the points I've raised. I need some kind of retraction, explanation, or counter to these alleged errors or I'm afraid I simply won't have enough faith in the quality of your work to remain a subscriber. TL;DR: This video is objectively wrong in many ways. Your opinion is wrong. Please address this.
during the end sequence timeline thing, the game addresses the fact that Guantanamo bay was opened and promised to be closed, and that it is still open today. This game has a clear anti Guantanamo message in it. Lots of your other points seem fair though.
Eaglesolidus Yeah, the game isn't what I'd call fond of GB, which is a good thing in my opinion. Still doesn't mean this is supposed to be the exact site and it's clearly not a fully equipped prison facility in the game, so even if it was the exact site Camp X-Ray would be, it wouldn't invalidate my first point. He's point still wouldn't make sense unless he could prove there was nothing like GB prior to its establishment in 2002.
Rory Mahan I aggree with a lot of your points and they're fair. I want to point out one thing and that's those "barcodes" you were talking about. Kojima said in a video with IGN where he explains how to first cutscene was made that that specific barcode flair is just a special flair effect he saw in some Japanese or Korean movie and that he liked it an put it in the game. I hope you'll understand what I'm trying to say. English is not my native language. :)
I always believed the side ops were just nightmares snake would relive , that’s why the npcs say some of his lines from past games and one mission even has you killing two special soldiers who in code name resemble snake and kaz
I appreciate you expressing your opinion. But I just have to disagree with not being able to root for Big Boss. I too have played GZ multiple times and listened to the tapes in more than one occasion. I know that Cipher wanted Big Boss to be part of his crew, not only because of his ability as a soldier, but his aptitude to be a natural born leader - with followers willing to throw their lives away if it so requires. His soldiers have this type of fervor because of Big Boss's natural charisma and how he has earned each of their respect. Big Boss also genuinely cares about his troops. We've seen him in PeaceWalker training with each one of them, Big Boss had also asked Kaz, in more than one occasion, if his troops are aware of the nuclear inspection in GZ. This just seem to suggest that he has a genuine attachment to his troops, and this was emphasized during the fire fight at the end of GZ. Big Boss was wailing at the top of his lungs, firing at the enemy troops and forcibly had to leave because he ran out of clips. To me, that scene alone hit me of how much he had lost. He didn't just lose a base - he lost his comrades, his friends, his dreams of unity. Now he is hell bent on vengeance because he's got fucked over more than once and he's had enough. That being said, we as the audience had known the feeling of lost. Big Boss, unlike the other Snakes, is a human - and as humans he can feel all sorts of emotions. This is something that Kojima wants to tap into. he wants to rile you up, he wants to get you in the mind of Big Boss and make you feel and understand these dark emotions that sets him to his path. Also, Big Boss, though may be a villain, ain't a bad guy. Outer Haven in the original MGS was housing orphans. Big Boss isn't Voljin in terms if redeemable traits. He's just really pissed off. That being said, I can't wait to play Phantom Pain!
The film, A Few Good Men, was set in Guantanemo Bay military base. It came out in 1992. Are you sure Guantanemo bay started in 2002? If so, the makers of A few good men have a time machine.
unassumption It's been around since 1903 but from 2002 (to present) it has been used for suspected terrorist. And that is specifically what GZ is drawing inspiration from.
EliasFrostMusic This is MGS. The military base inside Guantánamo exists since 1903, that´s a fact. MGS always deals with extra-official truths. In this context, Snake had to infiltrate in a military base in Guantánamo to rescue a couple of "friends".
Am I alone in not thinking that Big Boss isn't so much of a bad guy as is made out to be in this video? >HE HAS A PMC! >HE'S HIDING NUKES >BLOOD MONEY And so what? Why exactly are world governments the globe over able to wage war, have nukes, fund wars, ect. while the private sector is not? Apparently even many governments agree they should - they keep hiring PMCs to fill the gap. And because having contractors die in combat instead of your own military troops is a whole lot less negative to the media impact back home. Shit, if anything, Big Boss just seems to be doing what the other nations of the world are doing "legitimately." Only better.
I gave the video a thumbs-up, not because I agree with most of it, but because of how well you expound your viewpoint. You must have put a lot of thought and effort into making it.
I still maintain Ground Zeroes was far better than The Phantom Pain. The setting alone was far more intriguing than Afghanistan, which honestly seemed to cross over into cartoonish Rambo III territory more than once.
So disingenuous to act like GZ is a direct sequel to the Monster Hunter missions from PW, which were just Extra Ops (not canon at all). Just extra missions.
Guilty Bystander the point he made wasn't whenever or not these missions are canon. The point was how silly and cartoony these missions made the game. Ground Zeroes is a game that isn't cartoony at all.
The community you're referring to has long since left the sinking ship. With MGS4 and the ever growing ridiculousness of the Big Boss games came a new breed of dim witted fanboys.
Colonel Cubbage It's funny how the fanboys said that this game isn't comical while there're are giant robots and a pseudo-vampire in the game.Not to mention how childish and cheesy the dialogue were in the old games.
It's funny to come back to this video and read all the comments defending the story in Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain (which hadn't been released yet), arguing about how Kojima should be applauded for taking the series in a dark new direction and dealing with taboo subjects and themes. I say it's funny because since then The Phantom Pain was released, and it ended up delivering absolutely fuck all on the supposedly taboo subjects on top of having the sorriest excuse of a story in the entire series.
I think the points raised in this video are all well and good, although I disagree with the conclusion. To briefly touch upon the super sensitive issue with Ground Zeroes (i.e. Paz), it probably could have been handled better, but truthfully I'm glad it was handled at all. So many games dance around the ugly side of the conflicts they aspire to emulate that it was refreshing to see a game and by extension a creator that chose to headbutt that taboo into submission. Was it gracefully executed? No, not at all, but I tend to roll my eyes at the majority of rape stories in any fictional media anyhow. I suppose at the core of Ground Zeroes (and probably by extension The Phantom Pain) I'm just happy that somebody, somewhere, is trying to say something. Considering the poor state of affairs in game narratives at present I'm more than willing to call this fumbling attempt at a mature narrative a win. The anachronistic commentary on Gitmo, the explode-y rape of Paz (and Chico!), and the destruction of Mother Base left me feeling hollow. Like I was shocked that KojiPro had the balls to completely destroy everything they - and I - had built together. Perhaps that is where the majority of this criticism is coming from. That the emotional weight of Ground Zeroes depends upon your familiarity, your experience, with the history of this series. For me, it worked. It hit hard precisely because I had spent 40+ hours building Mother Base and getting to know the cast of characters from Peace Walker. Add to that the innumerable hours I've played Metal Gear games over the last 15 years and how well I know this series inside and out, this tonal shift for MGS5 doesn't feel unearned to me. My interpretation was that this was KojiPro taking the kid gloves off in an attempt to leverage the nostalgia and sense of personal connection Metal Gear fans have with not only the characters but the rich context of its (convoluted) canon into something that, while ultimately mean spirited, would pay dividends by the end of this saga in The Phantom Pain. Maybe TPP will be a mess like MGS4 was, or maybe this will be an exceptionally long wait for a climax that will rival Snake Eater. It's hard to say at present. I ultimately understand why someone would have problems with Ground Zeroes, but I didn't have those problems. For me, Ground Zeroes is a promise of something darker and far more ugly than we're used to. I'm excited to get there, as I don't think a lot of media is willing to go dark or ugly enough in a lot of cases. Good video though. You're turning out to be one of the few subscriptions I have on RUclips that actually creates something of worth.
I think its kind of funny that people are okay with paz getting her chest cut open so a bomb could be put inside it, but they are outraged because its implied another bomb was put in her vagina. Also Batman has years and years of goofy canon, but people can still take things like The Dark Knight seriously.
Similar with Star Wars as well. The transition from E02 to E03 is quite ridiculously similar to PW and GZ, both darker tone wise and timeline wise as well, being that both stories take place in the middle of each cannon.
Did you miss the first 5 seconds of this video??The dark knight didn't deal with rape or REAL controversial issues like a militarized torture base full of REAL absolutely appalling transgressions against many innocent people committed by a REAL country claiming to be a center of justice and freedom???
XxM00nSHADExX So? What's the difference whether these are real or not? I'm asking you too Super Bunnyhop . It's an work of fiction and needs to be treated as such, that is being judged independently of the real world unless the creator states otherwise. One more time, why do plot elements of a work of fiction need to be overly scrutinized for mere resemblance?
Batman isn't a good thing to compare to since batman gets rebooted for each now outing or series of outings. Batman has also been around since the earlier parts of the last century. Also - yes, it is more disturbing to shove a bomb into a 14yo girls vagina than to place one in the chest of anyone, including the same 14yo girl.
Wondering if you knew that the first song that played in the credits for MGS4 was "Here's To You", a different version of the same song you spoke of in this video.
Isaac Argesmith Just over the part he's recording over. And depending on the status of the hardware ( both tape and recorder ) you could even still get some leftover sounds from the original recording.
Wholeheartedly disagree with that guy. GZ does tackle those issues with a sensible tact, as much as it's permitted by the issues themselves, not only that, the story flows naturally and logically, as far as I know Chico didn't get the tendons or cartilage slit, so he should be able to barely and painfully stand up, he just can't run with those nails/staples in his feet. The ending of PW wasn't secret and it didn't need "hard grinding for days" , I'll be damned if it took me more than 1 hour to find Zadornov... Also, he used the monster hunter levels as example in reductio ad absurdum of PW's tone, while PW's tone was cartoony, the monster hunter levels were 10x more over the top and needless to say, they weren't canon. The tapes don't give you the main information you need to know about the game, you can play the game and know the important information through the main campaign both in PW and in GZ, tons of extra information was hidden in the tapes, yet nothing essential, TLOU and Arkham do the exact same thing in form of tapes, notes and stuff. Listening tapes while playing didn't feel like it hindered my skill, I was listening to the tapes on my second run of GZ and I got my 1st S rank, yeah, the ambient sound gets drowned as it should happen when wearing ear plugs, but I just put a little extra care on where I looked, that's it, made me feel like a badass veteran doing a mission while listening stuff with my ear plugs... But it seems that guy wants everything spoon fed to him, I bet my *** he never played the old Thief games the way he speaks, it's like playing a game is too damn tiresome for him. "You have to unlock that through gameplay"..... ugh, today's gaming generation. It can't be an anachronism because it's a fictional base based on a real base, not the real base itself, which allows to stretch those perceptions, there are real anachronisms but they're minor like the iDroid and such and those don't bother me at all. >"A lot of this stuff seems like it will be explained in TPP, so GZ doesn't stand on it's own." >Prologue Yes GZ is supposed to be the inciting incident, so? BB is supposed to turn into a villain, that's what everybody is expecting, you can root for villains or feel fascinated by them, that's ok. "Ours is a society that murders the innocent" is not directed at BB, I find it clear that it's directed at Chico and maybe even at Skullface, they're both immigrants, it could even be just directed at Skullface, but clearly not at BB. "BB is not innocent".............. Well, good. And he keeps saying "nucular" Nope, it was a no no for me.
Once again, it just boils down to how willing you are to accept that this game comes packaged with the traditional equivocals of its franchise. Its themes and aesthetics suggest it would have been a more cohesive experience without the baggage, both narrative and ludic, of the games that came before -but that's the way this cookie crumbled. And how many video games spark reference to real political and social issues? For all my misgivings about this series, and for Kojima himself, I wouldn't want to live in a world without his games. They are always interesting on multiple levels. What I'm saying is: "I'm with you." What are the chances that a AAA game of this quality, and dealing with these themes, could have arisen without long years of brand recognition to back it up? And if there must be some intrusive and off-kilter elements bound up with that, so be it. Bunnyhop's whole dissertation targets idiosyncrasies the series is well known for. His points remain valid, but they are not pragmatic.
I have to disagree, PW's ending was a bit of a fake out, and you do have to grind through optional missions to get the full ending. As far as the rape scene goes, I think it felt shoe-horned. Kojima wanted to tackle a topic that is very real in today's society, that actually happens to prisoners of war. And it feels like it was a bit..I dunno, if you're gonna go there, just fucking go there. It doesn't need to be shoved in our faces, but it feels completely pushed to the side and shoved onto a character that most of us to be honest don't have much of an emotional connection to. It's like Paz (and Chico, to an extent) was chosen because she'd be the least controversial character to put in that position, since most fans don't have strong feelings toward her one way or another.
INeedUrTurnips Simply put, no. Like I said, Bunnyhop's points are valid; I too would like to see more deftly handled material at this level of production. But there is simply no way for auteurs like Kojima to materialize given the current size of the industry. At least for now, it's going to take some serious credential to get something like this off the ground, and typically that comes with the baggage of franchise links and expectations. This has been true of all previous Metal Gear titles, as well as all games I can think of that deal with these themes with this level of production (Spec Ops: The Line comes to mind). The independent games industry is not so tied down, producing games like Papers, Please, so it's not as if there is something particular to the medium that inhibits the deft portrayal of real-world themes, but it may be a long time before this level of finesse is able to come anything close to mainstream.
***** Hence the "I disagree with this guy". The only discrepancy is the difference in tones between PW and GZ, yet the canon follows the same line, these types of games much like comic books are very much allowed to do these tone swaps. I don't see how the previous game has any baggage for GZ, any mature gamer should be able to separate the tone of the execution (in PW) with the actual plot, which GZ follows flawlessly so far, albeit the sequel is still short. There are no real politics in MGS, not even here, eeeeverything is fictional, but Kojima is tending recently towards types of dudes like Sacco&Venzetti, later evidence and events support that they were guilty after all, and in PW he got Che Guevara wrong, the only dangerous tool here is that, that can be mistaken for propaganda, not the natural subjects that derive from war that this game portrays. majorlyocelot PW's ending was not a secret, you know what to do after the "1st ending" and it didn't require any hard grinding, like I said, it took me one hour, PW was the single easiest MGS game to date it was way easier than playing MGS1 on easy. The missions while optional, really weren't, it was a main objective put inside side-ops, players today are to used to getting everything spoon fed to them, it's great Kojima is not giving away every single thing if you don't put some effort into it, it's funny that games like TLOU and the Arkham series do the exact same thing yet no one blinks an eye. The point of the rape thing (which is infact doubtful that Chico actually raped Paz if you think logically) wasn't to tackle a problem in society but to depict something that actually happens in war and to set the villainous nature of Skullface, and as Kojima goes for a darker tone, it would've been hypocritical not to include that, it was tasteful because it was only a tape, so it's clearly not in your face. It's irrelevant if you had no emotional attachment to Paz, why would you? Not even BB had, I find it funny that you say Paz was the victim... Chico was ALSO as much of a victim as Paz, the objective of that torture was to get Chico to reveal information, and he did before he could rape Paz because he loved her, then later in their cage Paz decides to give Chico some loving, why would she do that if she was just raped by him? It makes me think of that South Park episode where a boy is raped by his female teacher and everyone, even the police goes: "niceeeee" No one to this day has said a word about Chico's suffering. If it everything happened the same way, but the only difference is that Chico was the one that would get blown up, this topic wouldn't have arose nearly as much attention.
Have a few issues with this. Document destruction is a common practice for all branches of the military since documents can give details on how a unit works and its procedures which if known can help enemies attack them. Also Guantanamo bay has existed in different capacities in the past i.e. holding refugees in the Clinton era etc.
Parry Nguyen I commented before in another coment for this video but I’ll have to say it again...bunnyhop doesn’t seem to know much at all about the Cold War even less about geography and pretty much noting about American interference in Latin America and america’s imperialist history. Something that kojima did research very well for the Peace Walker . Okay Guantanamo’s purpose wasn’t extrajudicial interrogation tactics before 9/11 but is it surprising from the guys that infected Guatemalan prisoners with syphillisw in a very MK Ultra-like experiment with out even telling them. Same guys that before and after the Cuban misil crisis kept flying “spy” planes (in quotes cause in reality there were and are always spotted cause SURPRISE!! These are non very discreet) and also kept sabotaging the Cuban government by introducing plagues to their crops and diseases to there farm animals. The guys that till the late 90’s have a school IN AMERICAN SOIL that originality was IN FEAKING PANAMA with the sole purpose to train militars of right wing Latin American countries to turn them into paramilitary death squads, showing them the best torture techniques. Okay Guantanamo didn’t torture til after 9/11 what a fucking oversight bro!!! You really show a inconsistency there.
I have to agree, everything he says seems to be more a childish thought that hasn't been fully developed or thought through. For example, stating guantanamo style prisons would be unrealistic before 9-11? This is an alternate reality universe where the state of war and conspiracy has been far more progressive at a much earlier period so it's not unrealistic at all. Not being able to take the serious and the entertainment aspects as separate pieces (such as the talking cat) belittles the point of the entire series since it's always been a far more serious game than comedic but simply has surreal comedy and elements such as the psycho mantis controller and memory card jokes. Did it mean the past character progression, serious tones and great story telling of MGS games was null because it had jokes though? Of course not. Wasn't able to agree with barely a single issue of this review. Sad that hive minds gave it so many upvotes just for speaking rot :(
lol i was about to say the same thing :) I like this guy too but this analysis is a little bit out of place. I see some misinterpretations in his thoughts about this game. But i liked his "critical close ups" about MGS.
I can give you one right now Metal gear solid 4 is a game that relies way too heavily on its cutscenes to get its narrative across and moments and things from other games in the franchise. It ends up not feeling like its own entity by how much it borrows from past moments. The game play was solid although there really was no need for stealth unless you wanted to challenge yourself. I feel like he'd say something along those lines
The point wasn’t about whether or not that mission is canon but rather how PW was directed to younger audiences with a light-hearted tone, the given example being that mission.
@@evan_6594 He specifically says "A direct SEQUEL to this" (shows palico from monster hunter) The monster hunter OPTIONAL content isn't a "sequel" to anything because it isn't canon.
Its about time it got dark, otherwise its basically the A-team. Lots of guns, lots of shooting, lots of explosions but ZZz on the narrative. Portable Ops (which is now canon), and peace walker let me down.
***** I guess to me I always figured that most of the "campy" elements were 4th wall breaking stuff and as such weren't "Really" part of the story so I just played it like the campy stuff was for me personaly and the serious shit was for the characters, sorta like two games for the price of one, I personally miss the 4th wall stuff alot now that I think about it, but at the same time I still enjoyed what I got.
The part where you mentioned that you have no real reason to feel sympathy for this guy makes me feel that the switch from David Hayter as the voice actor for Big Boss was a bad decision even moreso. I was willing to accept that Kojima had different ideas for the tone of the game, but it feels like all English speaking players are alienated in that Big Boss doesn't FEEL like Big Boss any more. If you were playing the Japanese version, you could at least have the familiarity of the voice that the series has grown with to balance out the drastically different tone and visuals compared to the rest of the series, to act as a sort of anchor-- "this is still a Metal Gear Solid game." Without the anchor of David's voice, I don't feel like I'm playing as the same guy that I played as in MGS3 and Peace Walker, and I don't have any emotional connection or sympathy.
Lamsaturn What? The reason behind Big Boss' inability to gain support from Bunnyhop stems from him being a dick. In MGS3, he was able to play on Big Boss still being somebody who had his morals in tact. As for Sutherland, I'm liking the idea of him being Big Boss. It's not as iconic, but whatever. I guess I can write it off as Big Boss's transition into Richard Doyle mode.
Tooopper Though I have grown to accept that Hayter isn't coming back and that perhaps his voice would not fit in the first place, I still feel Sutherland performance in GZ is pretty poor. It just sounds like he phoned it in. He often sound way to cold or uninterested in what's happening around him. It would make more sense if he started acting like that later on in PP, when he's become a "Demon". Now I'm just sitting here, wishing they'd picked someone else for Big Boss back in MGS3
I guess our ears work differently, because I thought he did a decent job. Hayter, as iconic as he is, didn't have the best acting skills. His voice matched, but for the most part, his dialogue rarely expressed emotion. At the same time, Naked Snake is a soldier who learned to separate feelings from the mission. So though he has his quips, he has always been somewhat cold in nature. Sutherland doesn't change it up much. GZ, though fun, was pretty humorless. The tone was dark, the setting was dark, the story was dark, etc. Sutherland had to play Serious Snake for the entire run time. I hope in PP, they revive some of the comic relief in some form, but to some extent, I can see why it disappoints you. Still, I think Sutherland's acting skills there wasn't the problem as much as it was the tone of the game he had to play in.
Tooopper You were not at all bothered by the fact that he almost slurs out "Keptchuwaitinghuuh" ? Or "she surfifed". I agree Hayter isn't the best, but atleast he sounds slightly interested in what's going on
Josef Stalin And you weren't bothered how a majority of Hayter's line was taking the last two words said to him with a question mark at the end? Or how Hayter didn't act so interested because his voice is pretty much at the same tone 90% of the game? If you want to get really critical about it, none of them are really of great quality, but at the same time, I'm not expecting excellence in acting, because a majority of MGS acting is anything but excellent.
Lmao it's like in that Simpsons episode where Homer couldn't spell it. Fucking Americans not even knowing their language, never fails to make me laugh.
Jesus Christ did that SJW Patrick Klepek write this video for you? Kojima clearly says that the theme for MGS 5 is about "misunderstanding, prejudice, hatred, conflict caused by the difference of language, race, custom, culture, and preference." Those are all subjects that are very taboo. Not to mention this game is about a hero turning into a fucking villian. That is something that should be applauded to Kojima and not be ridiculed because it doesn't fit the tone of the rest of the series. Look at MGS 5 as the product itself and not by Metal Gear's history. The rape scene was put there to show how evil Skullface is, not to mention the horrors of war. As long as it stays consistent with the canon to Metal Gear, which is already in ways a mess, that is all that should matter.
It's a tick bunnyhop has. SJ crap sometimes pops out. But I never quite though of BB as a villian BEFORE GZ. PW DID have him make a private army that fought for money and had death mechs and nukes at their disposal run by a man that still believes in Santa Clause. BB seemed like a nice guy cause he looked like Snake and Snake was a hero...who shot dudes, broke their necks and ruined a kids life via proxy. And the arguement for it's tone is understandable. MGS was always a series that had silly, serious and wack ass moments. This game itself is coming off an attempt to get a bunch of manga and K-on lovers to play a MGS game and tries to include stuff like torture, rape, and mass murder with Hollywood actors and cheesy sudo-intellectual songs. Can't do that too well with an IP like Metal Gear or that well from a man who loved the movie Drive. Seriously, that movie was shit! Kojima has no damned taste! Also, Did you know Quiet is actually Chico? Kid couldn't pass the taste test so divided to grab a moss nugget and get some total boobage to make up for the death of his waifu. Or that's what the internet says anyway.
You lost me when you simply couldn't separate the fictional existence of Camp Omega in 1975 and the actual existence of Guantanamo, starting in 2002. "How is that possible?!"
Evin Paauwe He can't because Camp Omega is a clear allusion to Guantanamo. He is not criticizing that fact, but the sudden tonal shift from it's direct prequel.
He briefly mentions why he didn't do that in his MGSV review. He has some big problems with that game (he basically feels like franchise is not as good since MGS4-Peace Walker, that he turned away from it after those games or smth)
+Appz Wrong. He calls MGS4 an indulgent spectacle, despite having massive problems. He considers V to be an even lesser game, with good mechanics, but that is all nearly mitagated by the horribly repetive and insipid mission structure, and a very lackluster story
Although the commentary is spot on in just about everything, I feel like he is kind of missing the point of MGS. Yes, this game has a completely different tone from the rest, and we kind of have to hit a reset switch in our memories of hiding in cardboard boxes and looking at girl posters, but it is still a MGS game and you have to let your disbelief go and just enjoy the ride. Remember that this is both, a sci fi story and a political controversy and conflict story which by my recollection, they always need for the audience to lose their disbelief in order to enjoy it, also, throughout the ages, literature has been telling real issues or truths disguised as sci fi or fiction in order not to be attacked as some sort of propaganda. MGS has always dealt with touchy subject matter, perhaps not in this tone, but in order to get away with showing this subject matter, it needs to be clear that it is a fictional work and it helps to include all the ridiculous characters and campy humor, otherwise it could have been a very controversial saga, and that is if it hadn't bombed by taking itself too seriously. I am looking forward to MGS:V because I am a long time fan and although I am intrigued with the new tone and what we could possibly see and all the politically charged subject matter we will be exposed to, I also love the whole supernatural scifi campy side of it. And I think we can empathize with Big Boss because, although we know he will become the villain of the series, we'll know the process of his transformation and the motives that drove him to transform. All the pain caused to him which led him to strive for revenge. This is an interesting undertone within a goofy setting and IMO it will probably be the best MGS yet in both story and gameplay. PS: crap, does youtube still have a character limit? I hope not otherwise I typed all this in bane.
Yes brother, yes.... everyone should read this post. While I respect the opinions of everyone involved in this conversation it is important to understand what we're discussing. A Game, fiction, mature content, viewer digression is advised.
I'm not a hardcore fan of the MGS series, in fact I have not played any of them. But because of my interest in games in general, and games as a medium for narrative and storytelling in particular, I really enjoyed this video alot. Very good job!
The game it self calls it as an alternate universe mission. It takes place in the 70's and you play as a cyborg ninja from the future who is hunting body snatchers. Snatcher is a quite old game by Kojima. Oh and just a side note: high frequency blades need energy in order to work, and Raiden cannot get elecrolytes from non-robotic enemies.
Arexion5293 I know all that. I'm just sick of butthurt fans decrying Rising as a non-canon game because Raiden. Despite the fact that Kojima is fine with the game because he never gave a shit about the MGS timeline beyond 4 (Okay, he never actually cared for 4 itself, but Konami refuses to let him make anything else at this point.)
***** He never truly wanted a sequel in the first place, but he realised that he didn't want to see the series turn to trash after leaving it, so he worked on MGS2 and hard. And to be honest, I'm somewhat happy that they don't talk about happenings of MGS2 in 4 that much, since.. well, it's kinda supposed to be questionable if MGS2's events even truly happen. MGR is kinda a parody of MGS series as whole and at the same time it is a logical continuation, considering the technology. Harvesting brains of children sounds absurd, but in MGS universe, it somewhat fits, since they have developed the cyborg technology that far. And thus Raiden can see what his VR simulation could've been if he had been born later. So.. it's a strange mix of both parody and seriousness in one, which fits, since MGS has always been both goofy and serious. It's a succesful parody if you ask me. And Sam is probably one of my favourite boss fights of all time.
***** Well the truth is that Kojima himself said that it's a spin-off and he sees Revengeance as parallel-story taking place in parallel universe. /watch?v=n6OGvhlKNzw here's the video. So yeah,,,
I dont get it...you complained and cry about games not being chalenging, games not being as they were before...and when someone realese a game that chalange the player, force you to replay, force you to put an effort into it, you complain and cry about that too...so, what would make you happy?...I dont get it. And I'm saying this with all due respect...I just dont get your point of view...
I'll probably come of like a total fanboy or whatever, but I disagree with almost everything you said in this video. Which is definately the first time i do that.
Oh and one other thing I wanted to touch on was the whole vagina bomb/snuke thing. I find it pretty strange that you and a lot of other people are particularly irked about this detail and I think it speaks a lot about our society's negative association with sex/sexual organs, yet apathy towards violence. There was no mention of being disgusted over having to cut open an awake person and dig a bomb out of their abdomen (which I found particularly hard to watch), yet the minute a vagina came into the picture, it was all of the sudden it's 'juvenile', 'deplorable', 'strange', or 'disgusting'. From a logical standpoint, it was a brilliant move on Skull Face's behalf to place a bomb there. Of course you're going to go for the freshly stitched up chest instead of performing a cavity search. It's also a more accessible orifice to store a device than say, the anus, due to the natural elasticity of the vaginal interior. And as he said, it was some place they'd never think to check. So I don't find the idea of a bomb being hidden there as juvenile or strange; it makes perfect sense in the context of this narrative. As far as it being more deplorable than an abdominal implant, I think you need to get your head checked if you think this is the case. It's clear what feminism and society are doing to people, and it's not right. If you're seriously hyper focusing on the fact that a bomb was placed inside her vagina, and your issue is that it was 'rape' (improper use of the term by the way in this video; there were no sexual motives in this act, it was merely a functional implant), your priorities are sadly skewed. The vagina is an organ meant to house external objects and stretch enough to pass a baby; it can be done without surgical aid. Your abdomen is and was never meant to hold anything but your organs and you can die from your body rejecting foreign material. I GUARANTEE you it would hurt much more to have your abdomen cut open while you were awake and sober and have an object put in/taken out of it than have your vagina house a large, but manageable object. This whole 'rape > murder' stance is the worst kind of feminist brainwash.
Very well put. I was actually a complete 180 from your stance when I first heard about the second bomb (haven't actually played GZ yet...), but you made a pretty good point and have changed my mind on it. Grant it, I have only heard people talk about it, I haven't actually seen any of this yet. I think people in general also got to also take into consideration that while MGS may have an American feel to it, it IS a Japanese game. Japan has a considerably different culture than us, certain things are not tabooed there that is there and vice versa, so maybe this isn't as bad from a Japanese stand point? I wouldn't know, but I'm just saying one should look at the entire context of something before making a judgement on it.
While I don't think you should throw feminists under the bus, I think your point is valid. Many feminists, myself included, have written about and discussed the double standard between sex and violence, and much of what you're saying is deeply reflected in our political, social and cultural landscape. There's also an important distinction between sex as a physical act or psychological desire and sexuality as a concept independent of physical intimacy or liaisons. When Paz gets a bomb implanted in her vagina, it reflects the violation of personal space that occurs when someone has been sexually assaulted. The vagina isn't just a bunch of folds of skin tucked between one's legs. Because of years of concerted efforts to repress women's sexuality while also objectifying them, the vagina has somewhat ironically turned into this sacred organ. It's one of the reasons why the virgin/whore complex is such a massive component of how we've come to view sexuality in Western society and abroad. Turning Paz's vagina into a weapon both dehumanizes her and it highlights what lengths we are willing to go to conduct acts of war. As you suggested, taking a militaristic, utilitarian approach to a woman's private parts highlights what sort of sociopathic pragmatism we are willing to adopt to kill our enemies. I think that's ultimately what the fuss is about, and again, while I agree with your basic observation, I don't think it's entirely fair to reject the psycho-sexual and ideological implications of weaponizing a woman's vagina. Sex and sexuality do not exist in a vacuum. They permeate every facet of our lives - political, social, religious, cultural, economic, etc. If they took a male character and sodomized him or placed a bomb in his penis, I'd argue much of the same. It's not enough to just take a strictly clinical view of the human body and say "well, it's just a vagina". Purely scientifically speaking, we're just upright standing apes with big brains and opposable thumbs. But we also have ideas, beliefs and issues we take personally, including using our bodies as instruments of destruction, whether through coercion or volition. Whether we like it or not, we are moral beings, and that includes our moral inclination towards sexuality. And believe me, I'm saying this as a feminist who has a big problem with people screaming bloody murder when Janet Jackson's tit shows up during the Superbowl despite the fact that the news has no problem showing people basically getting mutilated everyday. You'd probably be surprised to see how many gender studies critics (including feminists) would agree with your premise, although I think the conclusions you are drawing based on that premise are incorrect. As you said, it makes perfect tactical sense, but it really drives home what kind of fucked up person would want to do that, same with putting a bomb in someone's stomach. It's really not too different from suicide bombers, child soldiers and protesters who go on hunger strikes. I think the question we should take away from Paz's situation, sex politics set aside, is "what are you willing to do to yourself and those around you to win the war?" As for the people saying it's a Japanese game and therefore "very different" or some such. I strongly disagree. I really feel that people grossly overestimate the reach and depth of cultural exchange and globalization, especially in today's digital environment. I have a strong formal and personal understanding of Japanese culture and I've never even set foot in the country. Many Japanese scholars and other nationals can assert that I've got a pretty decent grasp of the culture despite not having been there. The same is true for Japanese people viewing American culture. They know quite a bit about us, and their academic and social interpretations tend to be very accurate. Of course the Japanese have a different culture than ours, but people keep using the "Japanese games are culturally alien" argument so much that they're making it seem as though the Japanese are from another galaxy. While I haven't seen anyone here do this, it also strikes me as culturally insensitive to presume that the Japanese just stumble around with it comes to the values of other cultures - that they're too stupid or just don't know any better, and offensive things just kind of fall into their games. It's condescending. Yes, the Japanese are quite different from us in many ways, but they're not a different species operating on a different brain wavelength or something. Kojima likely put two and two together and hopefully realized for a moment that some people are going to be uncomfortable with a female getting a bomb shoved into her ladybits and her torso.
matsuringo24, brother or sister, I feel you. I totally agree with the fact that we as a society would rather see a "Cool Murder" than a subtle mention of a sexual organ. I still can't wrap my mind around that one. Violence not sex, what kind of world are we living in people? And how is everyone suddenly an expert on the art of another, something they, themselves had nothing to do with. Please, enjoy the ride or get the fuck off, please (just my opinion).
***** Uh...No, sunshine. Thanks for playing, but you guessed wrong. If anything, I was arguing, among other things that no doubt flew right over your head, that female sexuality being a sacred concept is part of what has caused some problematic gender roles. Holding women up as these virtuous, chaste little angels and then getting surprised when they do morally reprehensible things is a major issue that negatively affects both men and women. I actually don't have much of a problem with the whole vagina bomb issue in and of itself. It's bizarrely interesting, to say the least. While I don't know how in the hell (or why) you went through the pseudo-intellectual gymnastics of suggesting that I'm devaluing human rights in favor of feminism, I don't want to know because something tells me you'll just rant away with the same drivel about how "social justice warriors", feminist critics and "white knights" make you throw a hissy fit if they even entertain the possibility that there might be a narrative subtext to what Kojima is saying about women and the human condition in general. I do, however, agree with the author of this video when he suggests that it's a bit off-putting when you account for the schizophrenic, manic-depressive tone for which the Metal Gear Solid series is notorious. Hey, let's get a wonderfully insightful and intelligent commentary on the psychological implications of the military-industrial complex. Oh wait. a guy named Psycho Mantis is telling me how much I like to play Castlevania. Hey, let's explore the geopolitical ramifications of the nuclear arms race and what effect it has had on the global economy. Oh wait. There's a naked dude doing cartwheels while his supervisor is telling him (you) to turn the Playstation off. Hey, let's illustrate what happens when a legendary soldier is forced to come to terms with his impending obsolescence and his inevitable mortality. Oh wait. Some dude is running around with irritable bowel syndrome and a guy named Revolver Ocelot is making hammy speeches because your dead twin brother is possessing him via his formerly severed hand. Some chick gets a bomb planted in her guts and her ladybits, and some people astutely note that there might be something symbolic about it insofar as it is thematically significant. I mean, this is Kojima we're talking about, for Christ's sake. There's no telling what's running through that head of his, and it is both the series' greatest strength and its greatest weakness. In my opinion, at least. And you know what? It's perfectly fine to disagree with that analysis, but A.) don't be so damn juvenile about it if you do disagree and B.) form a rational counterargument with at least some semblance of scholarship and civility. But of course, the typical response from some people in cyberspace is basically throwing a series of vulgarity-laden childish temper tantrums about how those mean old progressives are ruining our precious games by engaging in this horrible, detestable little thing called critical analysis. How dare you read into the stuff I like or don't like! I mean, really. It's like the mindset of a 4-year-old who kicks and screams and refuses to understand why he can't eat chocolate and hang upside-down on the monkey bars all day. You don't seem to understand how arguments work, especially since you haven't really substantiated your "perspective" with anything of empirical merit. Bonus points for the juvenile rhetoric that doesn't really address the issues raised by either me or the video. He made some strong points, and the bit about Paz's bombs was REALLY not that big of a deal, contrary to what some other commenters here seem to have registered. But go ahead. Call me a feminazi, a white knight, the ever-so-popular "fag" or whatever the fuck else is popular right now. Keep lexically bastardizing the word "literally" like so many other people do. Just keep massaging that fragile little ego of yours because lord knows the anonymity and physical displacement of the Internet gives you a false sense of security like it does with so many other people online.
I always love your videos. I never played a MGS game in my life (however it is getting higher on my to do list) but you were able to be able to tell me all of your thoughts on this game flawlessly with me being able to understand everything that you stated.
Wait wait wait, why are you talking about Mecha Robots like they are some kind of childish toy?, Xenogears was about really serious subjects and had Mecha Robots, I don't see why a story with it's own logic and version of history can't be serious
I agree with about a half to two thirds of what you said. Yeah, the game is a bit too heavy-handed for its own good with its Gitmo subject matter (the post ending timeline for example mentions its current state, yet utterly skims over a line that translates to 'Solidus is born'). The idea of it being 'doomed by canon' is a bit subjective though. Yes, it really clashes with the whimsical, bonkers tone of Peace Walker, and the decision to tie it so closely to an extra ending of a game not as many people played is a bad one. But for some reason, those absurd moments are always overshadowed in my mind by its darker moments, such as Big Boss's final speech, his uncertainty against Kaz's enthusiasm, and Chico being loaded with dramatic irony as Big Boss' first child soldier. I guess that's me shifting the blame to myself rather than the developers, but when I think of Peace Walker's place in relation to the other games, those are what stick out, not the return to fantastical elements even if they can't really be avoided. But I think that the occasional unease is a bargain price to pay when seeing Metal Gear headed in a new, darker direction for The Phantom Pain. Hell, I've had Kaz's "Why are we still here?" monologue from the red band trailer run through my head more than any other Metal Gear quote. Kojima has stated that the series' trademark goofiness will come back in that a little more (along with the cardboard box) which may make it slightly less jarring from a tone perspective. We'll have to wait and see. I also don't necessarily agree with you on having no sympathy for Big Boss. Even if he's doomed by canon to become a villain and is halfway there already, the journey itself is still a painful one. Peace Walker ended with him throwing away the will of The Boss, which we understand from MGS4 ('Let the World Be'). Seeing him slip further and further into the battle-driven warlord with deep emotional scarring as he's characterised in Metal Gear 2, driven by betrayal and being spurred by Kaz's singlemindedness, is a fulfilling of dramatic irony like MGS3 was. It's like a trail of errors, and seeing him succumb to one after the other, embracing them more and more makes me want to think of 'what could have been'. He's a tragic antihero, and what's keeping me hooked is the fulfilling of that tragedy. But for all I've written, I don't want to undersell the rest of the video. You can't really ignore the links and clashes with Peace Walker so this game should have had its own tone as a bridge between it and The Phantom Pain, the rape scene was needlessly ends-focused and problematic, and it doesn't cash out its political themes to the extent that it should - an hour of cutscene and tape placed in an extracted inciting incident leaves it somewhat unfulfilling.
I don't think the 'innocent' was really meant to refer to Snake, though. It's pretty clearly meant to be Chico and (to a certain degree, albeit mostly coming from the repositioning she gets in Phantom Pain) Paz.
You know it's an ironic thing- people (especially gamers) want to hold up video games as 'art,' then absolutely crucify people for actually doing something serious which steps outside people's comfort zone. I find it more of an insult a franchise like Mario (and probably COD) can release the exact same game for 30 years and have a monopoly on people's money without feeling the need to change much. But hey, games are just dumb fun right? I get it, "It'd be fine if it was only done gracefully..." But gracefully? are you kidding me? There is no graceful way to depict rape, onscreen or offscreen. It's dirty, humiliating, debilitating and wrong. People still don't understand how to even critique serious games, because the issue of being in control of somebody's actions in the story- makes for conflicting feelings. Although apparently we should judge Metal Gear by the exact same standards of the 1987 game because it's part of the same series. By that logic, maybe I should snub my nose at a torture scene in modern 007, because in Dr. No people were scared of a giant, firebreathing, totally not-a-tank object that looked ridiculous. Plenty of things shift in tone, and the ONLY way to actually make people think about sensitive topics, is to bring it to the fore in popular culture. Would you prefer a cohesive universe trying to address something serious, or a one-off very depressing story that is self contained and does not relate itself to a bigger picture? I know what i think is more appealing, and more useful. We already have a million "The Expendables" type movies, and a thousand 'COD' type games, it is not bad that Metal gear Solid is attempting something sensitive.
Jeremy Watssman And let me tell you why I think 'Skullface' is not the be all and end all here. The 'skullface is a ridiculous looking cartoon villain' thing, is a total red herring here. Why? Because games and movies at large are generally a form of idealistic portrayal and wish fullfillment. Big Boss is a character, James Bond is a character, Indiana Jones is a character. To say that physical character appearance here should dictate the complete scenario, is lacking in the very premise it is engaging with. Apart from often possessing impossible traits of skill and prowess, characters like the above are figures of ideal masculinity. What I'm getting at here? Most the figures you know and love in entertainment are more often than not already shallow caricatures of actual human beings. This is the same industry that within the context of shallow movies it pumps out are already depicting sexual violence. Kojima is actually one to play with conventions and expand characters motivations beyond the usual required amount. Do you think it would've escaped Kojima Productions notice that in this game "Evil= Man with skull for a face"? It is being set up for a variety of dark and flushed out payoffs here. We know skullface has an intricate past, we know it ties to big boss, and we know it will lead to a dark spiral downwards. It doesn't set Chico and Paz up to be tragic heroes which are martyred for Big Boss. It shows them as human characters with flaws and weaknesses and as those who essentially just "got in the way" and were useful in the conflict. Sounds like a more realistic portrayals of detainees and POWs to me- whatever you want to call them. War is ugly, and senseless, and torture is psychological, methodical let inconsistent. Ticks all of those boxes. So yes it has balls in attempting to balance all elements, even if results vary.
***** I don't think you even believe that ignorant statement. If you're suggesting the 5 main games, and few supplementary ones somehow both parallels and exceeds Mario in some way for games that don't know when to let go or introduce some originality- then you've got some serious issues. Every Metal Gear Solid game has NEVER been afraid to completely re contextualise its series. Seeing as you don't have the basic ability of hindsight, here's how it would've gone, had the MGS makers been unambitious milkers of a cash cow; 1) Metal Gears are released, originally as an aesthetic and gameplay type of NES stealth- they're building into they're own style gradually and are popular in Japan, and garnering interest elsewhere. 2)Metal Gear Solid is released- it turns out to be a breakout success with its movie-like attributes and blend of realism and fantasy. 3) Metal Gear Solid 2 brings much the same that was refined in 1- Solid snake in a solo infiltration mission- no risky subtext of cognitive dissonance, breaking the story to send a message, or deceiving the fanbase. It probably rates highly across a number of areas including graphics but perhaps the story isn't as favoured. 4) Metal Gear Solid 3 is released- This time There's no return to Big Boss or change of character. Like Mario it's just safer to have the same character in the same context. Solid Snake returns again in another mission only he can complete You really don't realise how easy it would be to do this, and make a fuck load of money at the same time. But MGS has never taken that turn, and while they are faithful to so many elements, also not afraid to turn the series on its head with each release.
***** I haven't said or assumed you didn't like these games. But look at it this way, the validity or value of art doesn't always rely on the artists intentions as much as it does with the audience and how they receive the piece. If (and this doesn't seem to be very likely) Kojima was phoning it in yet still putting out quite compelling material that he is, then I do not consider that beating a dead horse. People can tell when a game is insincere; hence why almost every movie tie-in game that was hastily crapped out, sucks big time. However I don't think this is the case anyway. The reluctance might be there in the initial stages, undertaking such a big task for a huge franchise, but the effort is always there and put in 100%. Even in the games that are less popular in the series. Already for for MGS V we're anticipating seeing how the game will juggle such open world freedom, with the dark themes, supernatural elements and classic silliness one has come to expect of the franchise.
Every game in the series has had a lengthy on camera torture scene. It seems odd to complain about this being set in a location associated with torture, but to be OK with the on screen torture in the previous games.
13:07 - Che Guevara's purported last words. Man, I love this absurdist/historical juxtaposition. EDIT: Also, creepy - kinda. Catchy? Fuck yes. This agony is your triumph. EDIT EDIT: In retrospective investigation, Sacco may have had something to do with it, Vanzetti was almost assuredly innocent. Both fried, however, and both fried under false pretenses. Whether or not they were guilty was irrelevant - they were convicted not from the evidence but from the agenda of judge Thayer and many others in the justice system. They were Italian when it wasn't a good idea to be Italian, and they were Anarchists in a global system that feels threatened by Anarchism, especially back then. It's a strange but apt parallel between the warped views of Italian immigrants back then, and Muslim immigrants nowadays. Both in their times have an aire of "otherness" within American society. Both had religions considered strange, both arrived saddled with the stereotype of violence. For Italians, violent Anarchism,Marxism, and crime. For Muslims, violent Wahhabism/Salafism. History doesn't repeat, but it sure as hell rhymes.
It wasn't the difficulty, it was something where you have to go out of your way to get it. Think about it, how many Extra Ops did you have to complete to get the next Zadornov chase mission? The Zeke parts you had to get as well. The true ending happens well after the ending that many people got and were done with the game since they didn't care for those Extra Ops. And those people were completely out of the loop because of it.
To me, it was obvious to find the rest of the zeke parts, I really didn't care for the extra ops. Maybe the ending was intended for people who didn't just play the game and laid down the controller and said "that's it" as soon as the credits rolled.
Napline Wander It wasn't incredibly obvious. The fact that you had Zadornov perpetually captive (well, except when he escapes) was what made me think that something happens when you keep catching him. Though I though you unlock new maps and gear, not another plot point.
Napline Wander There weren't any major cutscenes between the ending and where you confront Zadornov for the last time. Also, credits. Those usually get me to think the story is completed.
George, I feel that your inclusion of the goofy rolling movement at 2:05 is not tonally consistent with the rest of the video and leads to a strange juxtaposition of silly humor and deep talk of war crime and torture. 0/10. But seriously, great video once again. Keep 'em coming.
I get a kick out of all the people who don't agree with Bunnyhop's opinion but also don't have anything to say to counter-argue what he said, so they just attack him for mispronouncing the word "nuclear" instead. Yeah, guys. You showed him who's boss. Yeah...
Great video, but I disagree on a few things: While Peace Walker was definitively campier than Ground Zeroes, It still had a pretty mature message when you got down to it. It dealt with themes like nucluar deterency and finding your identity, and using the secret optional Monster Hunter-based missions as illustration for the games theme is just wrong, since they are way sillier than the rest of the game and not canon at all. You might as well have used the Deja Vu and Jamais Vu missions as an example for how Ground Zeroes tone is. While Big Boss certainly ins't "innocent", he is not yet a villain. He has recruited one child soldier, yes, but that was more or less to save his life. His unit has a nuke, yes, but it is only used for deterrence if necessary, and he was initially against having it. I feel the term "antihero" is better used for him in general, honestly. Hell, he even infiltrated Camp Omega to rescue Chico and Paz, knowing full and well that it was a trap. A straight up villain wouldn't do that. Lastly, how GZ handles the controversial themes. I honestly felt it handled them well for the most part. Compared to how most games and other media handle it's dark themes, at least. Feminists love to rant about how the handled Paz and how she was "raped" (I never really heard she were raped in the tapes, only applied), before then blowing up by a "vagina bomb"(Which might more likely have been in her womb, as this again were only implied), but I honestly like her more after GZ. In PW she just seemed like too much of a generic, young, anime-girl or something, that were secretly evil. In Ground Zeroes I felt they made her more down-to-earth and real, I would imagine Cipher torturing her like that if she let them down. And let's not forget that Chico were tortured and humiliated too. I feel that everyone does. Don't understand people who were offended by this at all. Then again, you didn't rag about it too much in the video, so I'll stop here. But all in all, good video. I got where you were coming from for the most part.
Trust me, you can hear one of Skullfaces men unzip his fly then drag her away. Then the tape skips and then comes back to him thrusting into her as she moans. It wasn't at all implied.
Thunder .Jack Maybe I just didn't notice that, she seemed to moan pretty much all the time (although for different reasons). Still, I think they handled it decently well. I mean, it IS supposed to be distasteful and all that.
Honestly, one of the things I love about Metal Gear Solid is that the tone is so vastly inconsistent. One minute you're listening to a political recap of the Cold War, SALT and nuclear nonproliferation, the next you're getting groped by the president. If anything the problem isn't that Ground Zeroes was so mature it's that there wasn't something fun in the main game to balance out the darker aspects.
The tonal shift is one of my favourite things in MGS V TPP ! Like , one minute you're sending russians into the sky with baloons to the sound of Take On Me and the next you're playing mission 43
I don't know about this one George. I'll keep watching for now, but I feel you're slipping up a lot. Long comment incoming. I think you're wrong in your assumptions about the Big Boss and his relatability to the player. In fact, I find it difficult to believe that you _cannot_ relate or feel sorry about Big Boss after the events of MGS3 and PW. First the man was played as a pawn and had to kill his mentor, which was emotional on all of us. Next he raised an army solely on his ideals, which left you feeling pretty good at the end of PW (with the whole Paz secret ending setting up questions for the future). With the semi-high note that PW ends on being utterly blown apart by GZ's plot, I just find it hard anyone can't relate to the fact this man's life's work just got crushed right in front of him. Yeah we all know who he'll become, but who's to say Kojima isn't going to retcon BB into a less overtly evil character? In the era of MG1/2, you had to write your villains as clearly evil because it wasn't easy to write subtle characters with the hardware limitations. Hell, in BB's MGS4 scenes, he doesn't seem outright evil in the slightest, so it could be argued he's already been toned down. Is it really hard to understand why Big Boss wants to live outside the confides of a society that wronged him? At this point, he's going down as a villain who arguably has a better motivation than the 'good guys'. Another thing is that Big Boss's actions are being met in your eyes through your moral compass and you're failing to take that into consideration. There's nothing inherently evil about making your own army, or hiding your weapons/documents from scrutiny. It was established in PW that the world wasn't going to like MSF. Hiding those things wasn't done because of bad intentions, but rather because the world wouldn't react well to their presence. A similar case can be said about his use of child soldiers. At this point, he hasn't recruited any beyond Chico, and he isn't forcing him to fight any more than he already was before he joined MSF. That aside, one could argue he's going to give his future child soldiers a more stable life than whatever war torn country they were in. Sure they have more fighting ahead of them, but MSF isn't a brutal regime that will abuse them. Using traditional morality to judge BB and MSF is your flaw in this video, because the idea of MSF transcends that very morality.
Very well put together, George. I think you've reinforced my belief that MGS should have ended a while back. All the games after work better as their own thing. But I am willing to forgive GZ for its baggage because someone finally mentioned Guantanamo. Being an Iraqi and having lived through shit happening around me as a child strongly contradicts my current life as a student in what is arguably the most progressive country on the planet, with video games as my biggest hobby. GZ would absolutely work better as its own thing. In fact, aside from basically 10 minutes of Peace Walker, it kind of is a secluded story in the larger universe. However, personally, that's fine. I wish this game did better and had less people bawking over price and length, because the subject matter should be what is talked about. In another note, I find it much easier to empathise with Big Boss than you. Mostly because, even though MSF is absolutely a PMC, the only missions we know about were to aid Nicaraguan rebels and one to destroy a gone-rogue CIA operation working on a nuclear superweapon. They're kinda philanthropic, and Peace Walker tried very hard to paint MSF as a Robin Hood of military: lawless, but consequently ethical. That the operation requires big national forces to be busy is true, and sort of reversed in his philosophy: big nations are too busy to protect those who end up in their path to making goals (a code he got after MGS3 events). The scene where BB turns Chico into a soldier was fine by me because some people really have no choice. The nuclear weapon was made to make sure that they can strike back if some country wants them crushed. That it is an organisation fed by war is true, but this _is_ a story about a soldier trying to find a way to be one while being 'good'. I'm not saying BB is innocent, and certainly nowhere as it is with Sacoo and Vanzetti, but his conflict comes from being a weapon which is trying to make peace, and that's admirable. I can't wait to see how twisted his moral compass becomes such that he becomes a villain. That a villain is slowly being made from a hero is some fantastic writing to see, all must admit. The transition is so slow and well reasoned that it is actually making me empathise with said villain. I like what you said about the tapes, though. And I strongly agree that a story about Guantanamo and US torture has to be tied to MGS's ridiculous fucking story. Nonetheless, I look at the rest of videogames, and this is still far ahead. It's still a much more mature look at military than other military games I can think of, even if it has to carry the mecha figurines along. I am very happy that you want and expect more out of the medium, tough.
+iDragonarion I know I am replying to this a month or so late. But I just want to say that what you wrote is excellent and seems very thought through - so unlike many of the others under this video. I wish more people, especially on this forsaken website, would be as sensible in their argumentation as you. Perhaps much of it comes down to simple maturity, which a large portion of RUclips users most likely are not able to demonstrate yet.
+iDragonarion Metal Gear Solid largely has a fantastic story, or fantastic concepts that can be interpreted differently without being inaccurate (Big Boss being a hypocrite for his "no nations" nation, but also being driven by making a "no nations" nation for soldiers who were abandoned by their government; he's both, and not simply one or the other). I also feel like the general "shock factor!" complaints about critics is equivalent to First World Problems. Yeah, a rape scene in a fucking Metal Gear game is outta nowhere, but people saying "this wasn't done in a mature or tasteful way" seriously don't seem to understand the sheer lack of moral consciousness in demanding a "better rape scene." Like, seriously. A rape scene is meant to be uncomfortable. I cannot make a rape scene comfortable. Complain all you want about it being "immature," but I'd rather highlight a problem that you seem to be refusing to acknowledge.
One day after the release of this video, Someone from Kojima Productions said this to gameinformer: "He wants you to feel close to him, reduce the friction and see what players make of it. And Snake doesn't talk as much. He said, if he talks too much then we have to pay Kiefer Sutherland a lot more!" well thats sad
BrimusPungle that could be very fucking well rooted in truth. On my first playthroughs I realized that we dont see Big Boss' face moving as he speaks and I thought that happened so we wouldnt be so weirded out about it. Now I realize the reason for that is MOTION CAPTURE WITH KIEFER SUTHERLAND PROBABLY IS EXPENSIVE AS FUCK
This is true but look on the bright side: the amazing facial acting will be right along with it. It could make for a much more subdued, subtle, performance. Should be great.
It's not clear that Sutherland gets payed by the line. Even if he was, Kojima knew what he was doing before he started. More likely than not Kojima is just making an artistic decision. He's moving towards show, don't tell; replacing codex with subtle character body language. We're also seeing a villainous snake and making him more quite might be a way of giving more distance and allow us to judge his actions.
"I'm fully able to enjoy something, while also pointing out its flaws" is such a bad excuse to "disarm" criticism of your criticism - don't use that. The video was good though, even for non-hardcore-fans like me who just like to evesdrop on the discussions about Metal Gear. This video could have done with a better intro: it deserves better in my opinion.
I disagree the number of times I've seen writers and video makers criticise an aspect of a game they enjoyed and have people leap at their throats for it, it makes sense to preempt it. Just recently Campster pointed out that the slavery mechanics in ACIV: Freedoms Cry are poorly designed and a touch hypocritical and he got _swamped_ by people telling him that it was a fun game and he should stop hating on it.
Thomas L Pre-empting criticism is just rhetorical bullshit: if people aren't responding to the content of a statement, then you're free to ignore them and don't give them any attention - those statements obviously don't matter anyway.
***** I don't see how this disarm his critic. He's trying to be a decent human being with basic human decency. Not lifting his opinion over others because of mean snobish Selfishness like most people on the web, who don't even care to write something like "in my opinion", "from what I understand", "the way I see it" and so on.
***** "if people aren't responding to the content of a statement, then you're free to ignore them and don't give them any attention." But they usually aren't responding to the content of a statement, they're making their own. The reason critics and analysts iterate the statement is to prevent people from criticizing them for a completely different argument (that they hate / don't like the entire game) over the one they're making (small aspects they disagree with). Too often people take curious nitpicking as an attack on the whole.
What part of " wahwahwah, you disliked one aspect of the game so you must be a hater wahwahwah i am going to kill you wahwahwah troll wahwahwah" is a thoughtful or valid critique?
The base at Guantanamo Bay was founded in 1898, it has been in constant use by America since 1898. Americans holding a prisoner there in 1975 is not outside of the realm of possibility and it is consistent with our history.
I dunno, I thought the rape was handled more tastefully than I would have expected a video game to handle it. To be honest, I straight up didn't even know there was a rape scene in this game until I had gone through the main mission several times. So it wasn't something the were trying to shove in peoples faces to try to offend them and create shock value. And this honestly seems like a trend in games media where villains aren't allowed to act like villains. Oh no, don't do anything awful, that's offensive! It just seems like people want cartoon slapstick villains that don't actually do anything bad. You are SUPPOSED to hate villains, and find what they do offensive. That's what makes them villains. But nowadays, you can't have a really evil villain without being called edgy, or just trying to shock people and create controversy. "Hatred" is a blatant example of shock value and creating artificial controversy. Ground Zeroes is obviously quite different from that.
To me it just sounds like you're having a bad time trying to make this particular game fit with its predecessors. The game stands by its own with a different dark tone, that's it.
So that's what we do now? We call someone a "social justice warrior" for discussing an aspect of MGSV that some felt to be an uncomfortable tonal shift in a series? A series KNOWN for it's nonsense logic and silliness? Please... I'm not saying I agree or disagree with George's assessment. What I AM saying is George took the time to put together this video -- editing isn't magic, people -- so the least you could do is act like adults, keep your childish and dismissive put-downs to yourselves, and explain why you disagree in a respectful manor. Also, "SJW" has officially lost all original meaning. It's right up there with "bias" in the "I wanna put you down without explaining why" e-debate lexicon. There are frustrating, thin-skinned, drama-baiting SJWs out there, but to throw it around like it means nothing WILL MAKE IT MEAN NOTHING. "You wanna discuss a feeling you had? SJW" "You didn't like the portrayal of X? SJW." [Edited for grammar and clarity. I also wanted to add that everyone is arguing the merits of MGSV's newly found maturity in an incredibly immature manner and it struck me as hilariously ironic.]
Well put, well put. It's a shame, but actual discourse on the internet just seems like a Sysphean experiment in getting oil and water to mix. It's like somewhere along the line a bunch of people woke up one morning and breathed in some strange gas which made them suffer severe allergic reactions when confronted with people who think differently than they do.
The internet has pretty much become the strawman super highway. It's easier to encapsulate your complaints in one hyper-generalized, absurd caricature than it is to meticulously tackle the message. The tl;dr generation's creation.
All MGS games have a prequel part that gets you into the controls, MGS1 has the underground area, MGS2 has the tanker, MGS3 has the virtuous mission, MGS4 has Act1, I think with each new game the prequel part gets larger and now it is so big it is its own stand alone game.
As horribly badly it clashes, the fact that this super grimdark game is canon with peace walker is pretty hilarious to me. I want phantom pain to have a totally played straight scene where Snake and Miller contemplate the ethics of hiring mercenaries via balloon kidnapping.
Now this is why I subscribed to Super Bunnyhop months ago. George Weidman's videos are serious and take themselves seriously. These videos don't recite facts. They aren't diluted with awkward, childish humor or regurgitate the opinion of the internet; but rather actually provide an in depth analysis of the themes, motifs, and content of whatever topic is discussed. They allow for criticism from the viewers who can supply their opinion in the comment section (which is a good thing, btw, as long as it is done in a mature and thoughtful way) because there is actually a thesis provided, supported by evidence from the source along with personal opinions. Okay, I'm monologuing and taking advantage of the vanished character limit (in a desperate attempt for positive or negative feedback [which I'm not scared to admit, a quality I was discussing in my monologue {see what I did there!?} ] ). But seriously, I like the adult and serious nature of George's videos, and think they are a model for other vloggers out there who review things in general. ** Wait, what did I think of the video? Well, I don't play Metal Gear Games (not because I don't like them, but because I just haven't developed an interest in the series). So I'm not qualified to leave an opinion. (Then why did I leave a comment? To receive negative feedback, because I secretly enjoy being called... well whatever you can come up with.**
It sounds like you almost want all the MGS games to have the same tone and not go out of its comfort zone. The themes they are pushing in GZ keep the story fresh and exciting.
So you're saying that you're unhappy with this new direction because it isn't as campy as prior games? Sorry, but just because this game is taking a much more serious direction doesn't mean it will suffer. I agree with your point about not getting the full story unless you find the collectables being counter-productive, though. Why even mention iDroid being too advanced for the time period? You know about MGS, meaning you should know it's a sci-fi series grounded in real world military tech. I loved your other MGS analysis videos, but it seems you got a bit too butthurt that MGS5 is taking a serious tone.
Sorry, but saying Ground Zeros should have been a new IP because Peace Walker had a few silly Extra Ops, which weren't related to the story WHATSOEVER is stupid. Peace Walker had a pretty serious story, it was not a game geared towards a younger audience, by far. If you WERE a true MGS fan, you'd have fully appreciated the references to Peace Walker right away, and loved the harsh, much darker story Kojima has created. I personally love all the changes to the game, including the new voice actor, Kiefer Sutherland as Boss.
It's weird how you, along with others in these comments, think I'm not a "true MGS fan." I'm guessing you haven't taken a long look at this channel's most popular videos?
No, I haven't, because after seeing how ridiculous some of the things you were saying in the first video I watched on the channel, I wasn't interested in the other videos. You may be a fan, but a lot of the points you made about Ground Zeroes weren't fair, or didn't make sense. You can't say Peace Walker isn't a serious game because of a few silly bonus missions, they have nothing to do with the main story. MGS has always had a serious story, with an added supernatural element, when it came to the characters, mainly the bosses. It's never been a silly game though. Was it silly when Old Snake was crawling through a tunnel of microwaves, basically cooking himself? Or when Naked Snake killed his mentor? Or how about when Naked Snake was being tortured? Did you think those were un-serious scenes that deserved a laugh?
That's not what I said. Don't twist my words. He may be a fan, but he's wrong about the games not having a serious tone. The story has always been serious, it's not a Disney game ffs.
Huh? Strange at my workplace when a government inspection rolls around we are always told to destroy the documents. Doesn't that happen in the average workplace?
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but I do recall having Paz betray us being a part of the ending I got when I played PW, but I sure as hell didn't do all of the side ops and stuff.
Iamsofakingraw You're intended to do most (though not all) of the side ops, and thus unlock/beat the sixth Zadornov search mission, then find Zadornov in your base. Although, each successive Zadornov mission also appears if you just keep replaying older missions, so that contributes to the fact that you don't need to play literally every side ops mission.
"And I love it for it" is the only thing I would add to this video in the end. I agree with everthing. But it's this -contrast- that made me love the series in the first place. Are they going too far? Probably. I still love it.
correction - Big boss has never used child soldiers - Chico and and Paz were allowed to stay on Mother Base for their own safety, neither were deployed in the field, and Miller, who pretty much runs Mother base stated numerous time in TPP that child soldiers need to be rehabilitated and to put aside their old lives
I really hope Kojima makes The Phatom Pain good and fixes GZ story issues. I really don't want to see a good series lose its way. I do hope The Phantom Pain is the last. The series needs to be put to rest.
I liked most of the remarks individually but I don't see them correct or even fair as a whole. I think the author is pretty undecisive about his stance and has either forgetten the whole mgs background or his perspective have unintendedly limit his judgements. Anyway, good video. Well done. Brings up a lot to discuss.
Even if the camp didn't actually exist I think the Guantanamo style facility fits cold war politics pretty well.
Heavily agree. I think MGS GZ makes Omega work by being its own place, as well as tying in Cold War era events as well as organizations. For example, a mission has Snake taking on two US combat personnel that caused massive amount of casualties to the communist forces in Vietnam. Considering the US completely lost the war that year, it totally makes sense as to why the KGB would ask Kaz to ask his boss to take out the pair, since they could do so without any sort of retaliation. A prisoner in the main GZ mission also mentions how various intelligence agencies like MI6, BND, ISI (who play a huge role in MGSV, just in the background), all came together under one roof for nefarious purposes. Especially with how dark the US was during the Vietnam and Cold War period, Camp Omega represents that extremely well.
Big Boss turned heel in Peace Walker. Not GZ or TPP.
Yo, he turned heel when he rejected that handshake in 3.
if your talking about the Presidents handshake I would'nt say that that was the start of his descent per say but it was definatly a turning point in his life.
RogueDragon05 Yeah, I suppose the actual 'ooh! Screw this!' mindset had to develop while he stewed.
Basicly Zero wants to control the worlds unity through information and his control of it... Big Boss wants to control the worlds unity through military force and his control of it... they both forgot what they were fighting for when they became mortal enemies. Any zeloet will know that when you become obssesed with the enemy you become the enemy... only difference is your on the other side of the fence
I've always assumed that he turned heel while saluting at The Boss' grave. The way his expression changes in that scene shows me he's turning.
'If you are not a hardcore Metal Gear Solid fan, this video is not for you'
Well, you're wrong there. I've somehow gone without playing a single Metal Gear game, yet I could follow this analysis perfectly well and thoroughly enjoyed it (as I have enjoyed all of your other analyses). Great job, and thanks for turning me on to an interesting looking film as well
After having played both GZ and TPP and looking deeper into the themes of GZ, I've come to realize, Skullface's comments about society murdering the innocenthas nothing to do with big boss or the MSF
Skullface is talking about Chico and Paz, much like Sacco and Vanzetti are innocents, their only real crime being following Big Boss and the ideals he represented, while Paz herself was a Cypher agent, she was ultimately another casualty of war as TPP's tapes would reveal, my best guess is that this was supposed to establish the consequences of Big Boss's actions, how this cold war between him and Zero are causing innocents to die
Wich is great and commendable if it wasn't for how little real screentime Chico and Paz get... Chico even gets reduced to a namedrop in the tapes with both their deaths getting buried in the major plot of TPP
roler42 The song is also played in MGS4 but its a different version.
He was supposed to appear in Phantom Pain, possibly having gone through the skull treatment. Maybe a male Quiet.
@Gubbins Chico betrayed... first the Sandinistas in Peace Walker and then Big Boss in Ground Zeroes... i agree that he goes through a bunch of trauma, but if Chico hadn't died in the helicopter crash, he would have been a dead man soon after
7:28 Chico is not standing. He is kneeling on one of the seats.
Busted.
Meth BUST
"you should stop worrying about canon and learn to love subtext" sounds familiar , doesnt it goerge?
Your assessment is pretty well constructed. I just don't share the same philosofy. I can take Metal Gear as serious as it wants to be, I am personally not affected by the disparity in tonality between GZ and the previous Canon. In fact, I can take all the things you list as "ridiculous" and "campy" at face value.
Hello from GAF rofl.
-DracoBlade
princedraco5 Oh Hi there :D
I'm with you. I just think it's a good, enjoyable story.
Welp, now I don't need to make my comment anymore.
I feel the same, George does pose a great argument but it really is very subjective. Personally I have no issues with the darker tone and continuity, I'll treat TPP as its own game and judge it that way.
Besides, I don't think a more lighthearted tone would fit where the story is leading with Big Boss turning into a villain and it definitely wouldn't sit right with the heavy themes he's trying to express.
I guess I'm just used to Japanese entertainment and how strange yet serious they can be. I'm a fan of Neon Genesis Evangelion which deals in a lot of heavy adult themes and ideas... yet is still a show with a monster of the day scenario, fan service, giant robots, quirky humor, etc. So I dunno, Metal Gear has always had that same air about it for me and Ground Zeroes isn't really all too different. It's sort of like how people say that the series has changed so much since it began, but it kind of hasn't. It's still an infiltration game, with the mechanics and technology evolving with each iteration.
I think what he's trying to say is that the wacky shit isn't what doesn't work in Metal Gear; what doesn't work in Ground Zeroes specifically is that that wacky shit is nearly gone. NGE is kind of a bad example because, unlike Metal Gear, it doesn't have 25 years of wacky yet serious aesthetic coming before it in its specific universe. It doesn't have, what, 7 or 8 different series all centered around this aesthetic.Metal Gear does, and while Ground Zeroes can still be serious, I think what most people are concerned about is this very wide jump is aesthetic and tone and feel. If this were a new game without the baggage MGS has to contend for, it wouldn't have to jump these hurdles. But it does, and the game feels like it's struggling to find a balance between what it was and what it wants to become.
That makes sense. I suppose it coming right off of Peace Walker like George mentioned definitely makes it a jarring turn. I like the turn, but I get how strange and drastic it may come across for others.
Mitchell Hammond I agree, I liked the game a lot and I like that it's going in a more serious direction. However I don't think Ground Zeroes was perfect, and it did feel like an awkward balancing act for Kojima. How do we delve into issues like this while still keeping the game Metal Gear? It's not easy, and I'm not surprised that the transition is a bit hard for a lot of people to swallow.
This is a really interesting intersection of Ideas you bring up. In general the entertainment/ 'show cannon' for lack of a better term intersecting with real world events and philosophies does create a hard intersection. I guess I feel the difference here is the use of events or philosophies. In Eva the heavy bizzare intersection comes from religious ideals, Dada ism, Freudian philosophy in a pure form, and metacontexuality. Which is more akin to MGS2.
In this Part 1 of MGS V, the intersection as clearly pointed to in the video doesn't really come from philosophy but events and places. Guantanmo, before it exists tied to a political movement that never happened for XYZ and the characters may have their own reasons or philosophy but none of that seems to be on the level of mech development in the story. It's nuance and part of the fiction.
Also I feel a key difference between MGS and EVA is the continuity. Even mechs in these prequels create an issue as the more there are the less novelty and awe 'Metal Gears' have, as apparently there were a glut of pre-branded mechs prior to that line. So what makes it a 'Metal Gear' and not a Peacewalker, and just things like that come in on themselves. Where as EVA always rebuilds or does a sojo line as the property continues. Each set in their own universe, avoiding the continuity problem all together.
-or-
TLDR: MGS:has continuity problems. EVA: Always reboots when they do a new thing.
even if you used EVA I can see your point, theres a lot of seinen that touches this dark themes in a similar way and at the same time they have some humour and a lot of fantasy/sci fi elements like yes, giant robots/mechs... maybe is something cultural, I dont know, something from Yoshiyuki Tomino or Kentarou Miura that have a lot of important messages despite the giant mechas or elfs
the thing is, i dont think he even payed attention when playing Peace walker or if he just using whats convenient to him for this critic
if he thought MGS was something like "tom clancy novels with marvel fantasy" he should have notice that IS NOT a long time ago...
I only watched his MGS annalysis videos and they are nice even when we are years away from the games launch and theres a lot of writing analysis and theories since those days but i think he is not familiar with seinen or mechs and Japanese cyberpunk and also he is a pc gamer so...
a misstep on this guy's part about how the sacco e vanzetti concept falls apart because of a lack of sympathy for big boss. the whole idea was about Paz aka the idea of peace....sacrificing herself FOR big boss, who she has grown attached to because he provided her with a home. and in my opinion that makes it a sympathetic cause
It is impossible not to think about reference to Deus Ex in helicopter scene.
"- Oh my God! JC, it's a bomb!
- A BOMB".
You raise some very good points, but overall, I tend to have to disagree with that the rest of the canon exactly devalues the seriousness of Ground Zeroes. The campiness and over the top narrative was always something to be taken at face value of the series, not something to be taken as a definitive tone. The series always tried to address serious themes such as the one's in this game, although more subtly, and it can be argued that these themes in previous games were kind of invalidated by the campiness of the previous titles.
One thing that was disappointing that you didn't bring up, around the parts when you were discussing the morality of Big Boss. The nature of the antihero and an audiences ability to connect with them despite all the awful things he had done. Take a look at antihero figures such as Tony Sopranos and Walter White. People who did bad bad horrible things towards others, and yet, the audience of these shows were able to still heavily connect and show sympathy towards these people. Hell, people still cared for Tony even though he killed his cousin (another major character for the series) for no real reason other than he was bothersome. I don't feel this raises questions about an audiences "morality" but rather just goes to show how grey things can get. Hell, I'd myself be lying if I said I didn't feel for Tony in episodes like Join the Club despite the awful stuff he had done.
I felt you kind of approached Big Bosses actions with a black and white moral compass too much and tried to invalidate him on the basis of a sympathetic character for this. Sometimes we feel more sympathy for a character due to how morally dark their actions can get. I feel that stating that Big Boss is already a unsympathetic "villain" because of how he had constructed Mother Base doesn't really do any justice to what your trying to get across. Especially since we all have done some pretty fucked up bad stuff every now and then which would conflict with our "good" moral values. We're not perfect, and sometimes it's the imperfections which make us connect with one another.
GZ still succeeds more at what it does than The Phantom Pain...and that's just sad.
I disagree
does GZ feel more like a MGS game yes buuut that is why TPP must be seen as it's own entity
@@The-Big-Boss you're pretty good
@@AutistikWaldo that was some fancy shooting *YOU'RE* pretty good
dude phantom pain was the biggiest dissappointment of my life. Ground zeroes was great at hyping it up major along with the e3 trailers i watched everyday
Very interesting video. I do have one objection though :
The fact that Boss is a 'villain' (as the mercenary, nuke-crafting warlord that he is) does not mean you can't feel any sympathy for him and his hardships. Anyone who has ever read Shakespeare's Macbeth knows you can empathize with even the most traitorous and vile antagonists. Hell, some people (including me) even consider Macbeth to be a hero, and not a villain, which seems to be strongly wanted by the author given the way he wrote his character. The fact that a story's character shows ruthless and immoral behavior doesn't prevent you from appreciating his ambitions, or justifying his means by considering his goals, or even feeling pity for him when his unavoidable demise comes. What's often the strongest source of admiration for a villain is the strength of will that villain deploys to accomplish his dreams, because we tend to value determination and loyalty to one's cause. This is true for Big Boss too.
I want you to know that out of this entire comment section of fucking awful gamer takes, this one brought me closest to physically vomiting with disappointment before I gave up entirely.
@@TheSoulHarvester Your self righteousness had the exact same effect on me after i read your reply.
@@theazureknight9399 Well I don't remember the context for this ancient comment, but you should continue until you run out of organs.
"Nowhere in Russia looks like this"
Look up pictures of the area around the Ussuri River in Primorsky Krai.
Yeah, sure that part does, which is interesting. But the place the game hints at does not look like a tropical jungle whatsoever.
The crocs snakes and mongees are in Russia tho
I live in Primorsky krai and we don't have MGS3 kind of forests at all. Svyatogorniy I guess is the closest to what we have. And also, it located in Asia near Chinese border literally thousands of kilometrs away from where it showed in the game.
I used to live there, it doesn't look like mgs3 really. Stop being a petty bitch
I am interested in the Guantanamo bay now. Is there any documentary on Guantanamo I can watch?
Yup, I've provided two links in the description from two different perspectives. One from an Australian media agency, the other from the US Pentagon's own media agency.
And yet it was Solid Snake who accomplished The Boss's dream.
Malvo McVeigh
how the fuck is big boss not a villain
he threatens the world with huge robots and nuclear weapons when he's not trying to hide them from the UN
he feeds on other people's wars and makes money causing death and destruction
he kidnaps war orphans and turns them into soldiers
his "nation of soldiers free of politics who can make their own destiny" is just an overglorified huge group of dirty mercenaries who can only exist as long as there is war and chaos in the world
pretty sure you're the one misunderstanding the character
***** Nope. He recruited child soldiers, found Kaz by snatching him and killing his comrades before recruiting him into his group, left Kaz to pursue building Zanzibar Land, used one of his men as a shield/decoy, kept nuclear weapons as a deterrent, lied about keeping said nuclear weapons, lied about his ideology of MSF, and believes that perpetual war is the best. He pretty much did all that to fulfill a dying woman's words (which he may have misinterpreted) which he came into question about why she left him alive. Point is that Big Boss ain't no tragic hero he's a tragic villain like Zero. He crossed every line he could and in the end regretted his actions.
Can we all meet halfway and say Big Boss is a bad guy who does bad things and was made that way by other bad people who did bad things to him?
I didn't find the rape tape to be offensive. What I found really f---ed up was what Paz says at the end after the act. She basically asks Chico if he wants to do it again.
Now THAT is weird.
What that being said, it might be worth it to re-examine GZ now that TPP is done. I actually think GZ was more enjoyable than PP.
MegaPhilX l always think of GZ like the Tanker Chapter. lt sets up to give us what we want and then the rest of the experience played us like a damn fiddle.
It was supposed to be like the tanker chapter, but it falls flat due to time constraints :/. I still think GZ is one of my favorites in the series in terms of gameplay and story, and gives a perfect setup to TPP buuut it just doesn't come through.
I felt like it was a lot more humanizing to her shift from evil villain Paz to the Paz in the secret tapes from PW. She loves everyone at Mother Base. She knows he doesn’t want to hurt her, and because he’s just an innocent kid, she comforts him in the best way she thinks possible.
Still weird as heck and makes me super uncomfortable, but isn’t excessive.
Also, your remarks on how its hard to root for Big Boss because he isnt good and "no good person should have to hide things" blows my mind considering how in every other video you seem to understand so much about this series.
The whole Big Boss "saga" is about how he doesnt have a moral compass because he realizes that this changes with the times. Remember? It's so weird how you are making an analysis of this character and disregarding everything he was created to be.
Also, the pont of "Here's to You" is not just about Sacco and Vanzetti. It's also a song Joan Baez sang during her concerts during her Latin America tour in the 70's, when the military dictatorships supported by the US kept her from singing onstage at the last minute. See?
What he says is also absurd seeing as it implies hiding behind a cause (patriotism, nationalism, political ideology etc.) mitigates the kind of atrocities state militaries commit both in real life and in this fictional game and at least partly absolves them of their sins. Big Boss knows the system perverts politics into unethical military operations and seeks to operate outside this; hiding from the UN is an acknowledgement that MSF would be a very soft target if they rocked the boat.
He's far from innocent, but you can see the good intentions behind his actions, and this is what makes the slide to villain such a interesting thing to observe.
Yeah, totally. Speaking of such defined lines of good and evil in Metal Gear lore and in Military Context makes little sense, and associating "good" with the UN is too simplistic - especially considering what I've come to expect out of this channel.
gabrieltdelima honestly kind of on your side on that and also may I add? I genuinely didn’t expect less from what seems to be a philosophy minor. Something you realize when taking his arguments. First, Snake eater, not jungle but swampy forest. Second, not Russia but the Soviet Union. Even in today’s Russia there are swamps mountains and forrrest. And there were even more in the Soviet Union counting all the countries like the Stans and the eurpean countries that separated from them on the 90’s, third ground zeroes more than a prefix to the phantom pain is more like an epilogue to peace walker if compare to snake eater where the campy jingoistic American patriotism its flip on its head by the end . The same happens with the very accurate but also campy feeling of Costa Rican people and the Sandinista in peace walker. And it works because at the end of snake eater he gave up in patriotism and in piece walker he gave up in humanity it self but the repercussions don’t hit till ground zeroes.
Also I don’t want anyone to think I meant philosophy minor as an insult he did a great job with metal gear solid two video. I just guess he study a minor while studying a major in something else. Because he kind of sucks at in geography and Latin American history. That from a Latin American myself I can tell Kojima did take into account.
@@marceloenriquegarciagarcia4754 Everything you said is wrong.
Kojima literally went out of his way to make a jungle for MGS3, go look at all the press for it. He doesn't describe "swampy forest" (which is somehow inhabited by snakes, alligators and mosquitoes?), he literally says "jungle".
Russia and USSR are basically interchangeable.
Ground Zeroes is not an epilogue to Peace Walker at all except in a story sense, it was designed from the beginning to be the opening of Phantom Pain until Konami stepped in and told Kojima that he was spending to much time and money on a project that they believed did not justify it. The development of Peace Walker was so far removed from Phantom Pain that you can basically say that Snake Eater contained more inspiration for characterization, plot, etc.
3:10 WTF? that's not cannon at all ! i thought you knew this franchise
5:20 - It's not Guantanamo Bay. Ground Zeroes never said it was. Yes, it's in Cuba, but that doesn't mean it's the exact Guantanamo Bay. It's a fictional black site. For this fact alone, you would have to argue for GB to be the first and only detention center in American history in order to say a detention center in 1975 is anachronistic. The location in Ground Zeroes is also mentioned as a black site, which means it's unofficial and secretive. It's not like the public is privy to everything the government does.
This is all not even to mention that the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base that the detention center resides within was established in 1941, not 2002. We can also point to a detention center being used there as early as 1991 to unconstitutionally imprison HIV-positive refugees. Lastly, there are two guards in the east refugee camp talking about how they've just started using the old prison area for some reason outside their pay grade and how the base is starting to feel like a prison. This heavily implies that this isn't a detention facility on paper.
7:00 - Chico: Chico finds the incision on Paz, he yells to snake and stands, but is clearly seen having trouble taking steps, Snake also picks Chico up and moves him, once again exemplifying the difficulty Chico has moving in his current state.
Barcodes Over Cutscene: Stylistic reference to what is most likely gene sequencing, possibly hinting at what comes in Big Boss's future. Maybe the fact that it shows the barcodes first when it shows the soldiers in the helicopter and again when it shows Big Boss is a hint that Zero has already started using Big Boss's genetics to enhance or create the XOF soldiers. Either way, it's stylistic and most likely symbolic foreshadowing. You might as well ask why some directors use certain filters and lens flare in their films.
iDroid: Yes, because Metal Gear Solid has always had completely realistic technology. We had sonar that you could carry in your pocket and detect enemy combatants with during the Cold War like in MGS3, right? I'm also sure MI6 has agents just like Bond all using cars with stealth technology and watch-sized lasers capable of melting through steel without any obvious external power supply.
9:00 - Maybe later he'd be hard to root for, but at this point in the story, he's a hero who was betrayed by a government that's been corrupted. You say no good person's to-do list should include document destruction . . . not even if they were documents a bad person or organization was going to use against you? I guess the US military shouldn't destroy documents that contain intel terrorists could use against them because good people don't destroy documents. You seem to be completely ignoring the context of Big Boss's situation.
17:00 Rape is inherently distasteful, that's the point. You also seem to forget that Skull Face is a code name. Also, the number one synonym for "gratuitous" is "unjustified", so allow me to ask when torture, and particularly rape, would ever be justified? Once again, this is the point. The rape is not supposed to be justice. It's not supposed to be tasteful. You're supposed to find Skull Face distasteful and unjustified in his action. I also can't comprehend your gripes with having one mission clearly meant to be fun and another clearly meant to tell a disturbing tale. Yes, they're part of the same game, but they're not meant to interplay narratively.
I'm not trying to be an asshole, but this was poorly researched and thought out. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion, but if your opinion comes coupled with objectively incorrect facts, like the ones I've cited above, I have say it is wrong. I only recently found this channel and was loving everything it offered until this point. Once again, not to be an asshole, but I expect you to address these points. If I'm wrong about these things, offer me the counter-evidence, please, but at least acknowledge and explain the points I've raised. I need some kind of retraction, explanation, or counter to these alleged errors or I'm afraid I simply won't have enough faith in the quality of your work to remain a subscriber.
TL;DR: This video is objectively wrong in many ways. Your opinion is wrong. Please address this.
during the end sequence timeline thing, the game addresses the fact that Guantanamo bay was opened and promised to be closed, and that it is still open today. This game has a clear anti Guantanamo message in it. Lots of your other points seem fair though.
Eaglesolidus Yeah, the game isn't what I'd call fond of GB, which is a good thing in my opinion. Still doesn't mean this is supposed to be the exact site and it's clearly not a fully equipped prison facility in the game, so even if it was the exact site Camp X-Ray would be, it wouldn't invalidate my first point. He's point still wouldn't make sense unless he could prove there was nothing like GB prior to its establishment in 2002.
Rory Mahan I aggree with a lot of your points and they're fair. I want to point out one thing and that's those "barcodes" you were talking about. Kojima said in a video with IGN where he explains how to first cutscene was made that that specific barcode flair is just a special flair effect he saw in some Japanese or Korean movie and that he liked it an put it in the game.
I hope you'll understand what I'm trying to say. English is not my native language. :)
I always believed the side ops were just nightmares snake would relive , that’s why the npcs say some of his lines from past games and one mission even has you killing two special soldiers who in code name resemble snake and kaz
I appreciate you expressing your opinion. But I just have to disagree with not being able to root for Big Boss.
I too have played GZ multiple times and listened to the tapes in more than one occasion. I know that Cipher wanted Big Boss to be part of his crew, not only because of his ability as a soldier, but his aptitude to be a natural born leader - with followers willing to throw their lives away if it so requires. His soldiers have this type of fervor because of Big Boss's natural charisma and how he has earned each of their respect. Big Boss also genuinely cares about his troops. We've seen him in PeaceWalker training with each one of them, Big Boss had also asked Kaz, in more than one occasion, if his troops are aware of the nuclear inspection in GZ. This just seem to suggest that he has a genuine attachment to his troops, and this was emphasized during the fire fight at the end of GZ. Big Boss was wailing at the top of his lungs, firing at the enemy troops and forcibly had to leave because he ran out of clips. To me, that scene alone hit me of how much he had lost. He didn't just lose a base - he lost his comrades, his friends, his dreams of unity.
Now he is hell bent on vengeance because he's got fucked over more than once and he's had enough. That being said, we as the audience had known the feeling of lost. Big Boss, unlike the other Snakes, is a human - and as humans he can feel all sorts of emotions. This is something that Kojima wants to tap into. he wants to rile you up, he wants to get you in the mind of Big Boss and make you feel and understand these dark emotions that sets him to his path.
Also, Big Boss, though may be a villain, ain't a bad guy. Outer Haven in the original MGS was housing orphans. Big Boss isn't Voljin in terms if redeemable traits. He's just really pissed off.
That being said, I can't wait to play Phantom Pain!
It's hard to believe big boss is a bad guy, when you are a fanboy
+AydarBMSTU Calm down, kid. You don't even know the meaning of fanboy.
The film, A Few Good Men, was set in Guantanemo Bay military base.
It came out in 1992.
Are you sure Guantanemo bay started in 2002?
If so, the makers of A few good men have a time machine.
unassumption It's been around since 1903 but from 2002 (to present) it has been used for suspected terrorist. And that is specifically what GZ is drawing inspiration from.
EliasFrostMusic Officially it was opened as a prison in 2002, but extra-officially? You must remember this is MGS. Camp X-Ray existed in 1975.
Santiago Vásquez Gómez You sure about that, I can't find a source.
EliasFrostMusic
This is MGS. The military base inside Guantánamo exists since 1903, that´s a fact. MGS always deals with extra-official truths. In this context, Snake had to infiltrate in a military base in Guantánamo to rescue a couple of "friends".
Santiago Vásquez Gómez What do you mean with extra-official truths?
Am I alone in not thinking that Big Boss isn't so much of a bad guy as is made out to be in this video?
>HE HAS A PMC!
>HE'S HIDING NUKES
>BLOOD MONEY
And so what? Why exactly are world governments the globe over able to wage war, have nukes, fund wars, ect. while the private sector is not? Apparently even many governments agree they should - they keep hiring PMCs to fill the gap. And because having contractors die in combat instead of your own military troops is a whole lot less negative to the media impact back home.
Shit, if anything, Big Boss just seems to be doing what the other nations of the world are doing "legitimately." Only better.
I gave the video a thumbs-up, not because I agree with most of it, but because of how well you expound your viewpoint. You must have put a lot of thought and effort into making it.
I still maintain Ground Zeroes was far better than The Phantom Pain. The setting alone was far more intriguing than Afghanistan, which honestly seemed to cross over into cartoonish Rambo III territory more than once.
So disingenuous to act like GZ is a direct sequel to the Monster Hunter missions from PW, which were just Extra Ops (not canon at all). Just extra missions.
Guilty Bystander the point he made wasn't whenever or not these missions are canon. The point was how silly and cartoony these missions made the game. Ground Zeroes is a game that isn't cartoony at all.
XrosBlader821 GZ isn't but TTP is. it still has cartoony stuff like box, horse shitting and fulton
Sudarsan Ragavan How is a horse shitting cartoony?
Sarge Comstat The sound effects are hilarious and you can make enemy jeeps slip off the road when they drive into a pile of shit :D
+XrosBlader821 finding the hidden xof patch is pretty cartoony
I used to think the Metal Gear fan base was pretty levelheaded... Then I saw this comments section... Good lord.
The community you're referring to has long since left the sinking ship. With MGS4 and the ever growing ridiculousness of the Big Boss games came a new breed of dim witted fanboys.
Colonel Cubbage It's funny how the fanboys said that this game isn't comical while there're are giant robots and a pseudo-vampire in the game.Not to mention how childish and cheesy the dialogue were in the old games.
Really. I guess George is really wise by not making a video about MGS4. Kojima's fanboys are delusional.
I think most people agree mgs4 is not very good though, it was kinda the black sheep of the series before mgs5 bombed in the story department.
It's funny to come back to this video and read all the comments defending the story in Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain (which hadn't been released yet), arguing about how Kojima should be applauded for taking the series in a dark new direction and dealing with taboo subjects and themes.
I say it's funny because since then The Phantom Pain was released, and it ended up delivering absolutely fuck all on the supposedly taboo subjects on top of having the sorriest excuse of a story in the entire series.
+Redgrave192 Yep. The funniest part is that half of the 2013 Redband trailer's content is either in Ground Zeroes or not in either GZ nor TPP
+Redgrave192 or you just dont understand TPP
Felipe Palha What is their to understand when Kojima obviously didn't care about the story?
+Felipe “Brando” Palha I don't think anybody does
+Redgrave192 My thoughts exactly. The game's story was a severe disappointment.
I think the points raised in this video are all well and good, although I disagree with the conclusion.
To briefly touch upon the super sensitive issue with Ground Zeroes (i.e. Paz), it probably could have been handled better, but truthfully I'm glad it was handled at all. So many games dance around the ugly side of the conflicts they aspire to emulate that it was refreshing to see a game and by extension a creator that chose to headbutt that taboo into submission. Was it gracefully executed? No, not at all, but I tend to roll my eyes at the majority of rape stories in any fictional media anyhow.
I suppose at the core of Ground Zeroes (and probably by extension The Phantom Pain) I'm just happy that somebody, somewhere, is trying to say something. Considering the poor state of affairs in game narratives at present I'm more than willing to call this fumbling attempt at a mature narrative a win. The anachronistic commentary on Gitmo, the explode-y rape of Paz (and Chico!), and the destruction of Mother Base left me feeling hollow. Like I was shocked that KojiPro had the balls to completely destroy everything they - and I - had built together.
Perhaps that is where the majority of this criticism is coming from. That the emotional weight of Ground Zeroes depends upon your familiarity, your experience, with the history of this series. For me, it worked. It hit hard precisely because I had spent 40+ hours building Mother Base and getting to know the cast of characters from Peace Walker. Add to that the innumerable hours I've played Metal Gear games over the last 15 years and how well I know this series inside and out, this tonal shift for MGS5 doesn't feel unearned to me. My interpretation was that this was KojiPro taking the kid gloves off in an attempt to leverage the nostalgia and sense of personal connection Metal Gear fans have with not only the characters but the rich context of its (convoluted) canon into something that, while ultimately mean spirited, would pay dividends by the end of this saga in The Phantom Pain. Maybe TPP will be a mess like MGS4 was, or maybe this will be an exceptionally long wait for a climax that will rival Snake Eater. It's hard to say at present.
I ultimately understand why someone would have problems with Ground Zeroes, but I didn't have those problems. For me, Ground Zeroes is a promise of something darker and far more ugly than we're used to. I'm excited to get there, as I don't think a lot of media is willing to go dark or ugly enough in a lot of cases.
Good video though. You're turning out to be one of the few subscriptions I have on RUclips that actually creates something of worth.
I think its kind of funny that people are okay with paz getting her chest cut open so a bomb could be put inside it, but they are outraged because its implied another bomb was put in her vagina.
Also Batman has years and years of goofy canon, but people can still take things like The Dark Knight seriously.
Similar with Star Wars as well. The transition from E02 to E03 is quite ridiculously similar to PW and GZ, both darker tone wise and timeline wise as well, being that both stories take place in the middle of each cannon.
Did you miss the first 5 seconds of this video??The dark knight didn't deal with rape or REAL controversial issues like a militarized torture base full of REAL absolutely appalling transgressions against many innocent people committed by a REAL country claiming to be a center of justice and freedom???
XxM00nSHADExX So? What's the difference whether these are real or not? I'm asking you too Super Bunnyhop . It's an work of fiction and needs to be treated as such, that is being judged independently of the real world unless the creator states otherwise.
One more time, why do plot elements of a work of fiction need to be overly scrutinized for mere resemblance?
Do you have a vagina? do you knwo what a fuckign BOMB using to RAPE a woman that looks like she is 14 years old mean?
Batman isn't a good thing to compare to since batman gets rebooted for each now outing or series of outings. Batman has also been around since the earlier parts of the last century.
Also - yes, it is more disturbing to shove a bomb into a 14yo girls vagina than to place one in the chest of anyone, including the same 14yo girl.
Big Boss: _Is rescuing Chico and Paz_
Skull Face: "I'm in your base, killing your dudes"
Wondering if you knew that the first song that played in the credits for MGS4 was "Here's To You", a different version of the same song you spoke of in this video.
Just as an aside, the song is probably on chico's tape, because he's recording over a tape with the song.
Wouldn't the tape delete that and replace it with him though?
Isaac Argesmith Just over the part he's recording over.
And depending on the status of the hardware ( both tape and recorder ) you could even still get some leftover sounds from the original recording.
Wholeheartedly disagree with that guy.
GZ does tackle those issues with a sensible tact, as much as it's permitted by the issues themselves, not only that, the story flows naturally and logically, as far as I know Chico didn't get the tendons or cartilage slit, so he should be able to barely and painfully stand up, he just can't run with those nails/staples in his feet.
The ending of PW wasn't secret and it didn't need "hard grinding for days" , I'll be damned if it took me more than 1 hour to find Zadornov... Also, he used the monster hunter levels as example in reductio ad absurdum of PW's tone, while PW's tone was cartoony, the monster hunter levels were 10x more over the top and needless to say, they weren't canon.
The tapes don't give you the main information you need to know about the game, you can play the game and know the important information through the main campaign both in PW and in GZ, tons of extra information was hidden in the tapes, yet nothing essential, TLOU and Arkham do the exact same thing in form of tapes, notes and stuff.
Listening tapes while playing didn't feel like it hindered my skill, I was listening to the tapes on my second run of GZ and I got my 1st S rank, yeah, the ambient sound gets drowned as it should happen when wearing ear plugs, but I just put a little extra care on where I looked, that's it, made me feel like a badass veteran doing a mission while listening stuff with my ear plugs... But it seems that guy wants everything spoon fed to him, I bet my *** he never played the old Thief games the way he speaks, it's like playing a game is too damn tiresome for him.
"You have to unlock that through gameplay"..... ugh, today's gaming generation.
It can't be an anachronism because it's a fictional base based on a real base, not the real base itself, which allows to stretch those perceptions, there are real anachronisms but they're minor like the iDroid and such and those don't bother me at all.
>"A lot of this stuff seems like it will be explained in TPP, so GZ doesn't stand on it's own."
>Prologue
Yes GZ is supposed to be the inciting incident, so?
BB is supposed to turn into a villain, that's what everybody is expecting, you can root for villains or feel fascinated by them, that's ok.
"Ours is a society that murders the innocent" is not directed at BB, I find it clear that it's directed at Chico and maybe even at Skullface, they're both immigrants, it could even be just directed at Skullface, but clearly not at BB.
"BB is not innocent".............. Well, good.
And he keeps saying "nucular"
Nope, it was a no no for me.
Once again, it just boils down to how willing you are to accept that this game comes packaged with the traditional equivocals of its franchise. Its themes and aesthetics suggest it would have been a more cohesive experience without the baggage, both narrative and ludic, of the games that came before -but that's the way this cookie crumbled.
And how many video games spark reference to real political and social issues? For all my misgivings about this series, and for Kojima himself, I wouldn't want to live in a world without his games. They are always interesting on multiple levels.
What I'm saying is: "I'm with you." What are the chances that a AAA game of this quality, and dealing with these themes, could have arisen without long years of brand recognition to back it up? And if there must be some intrusive and off-kilter elements bound up with that, so be it. Bunnyhop's whole dissertation targets idiosyncrasies the series is well known for. His points remain valid, but they are not pragmatic.
I have to disagree, PW's ending was a bit of a fake out, and you do have to grind through optional missions to get the full ending. As far as the rape scene goes, I think it felt shoe-horned. Kojima wanted to tackle a topic that is very real in today's society, that actually happens to prisoners of war. And it feels like it was a bit..I dunno, if you're gonna go there, just fucking go there. It doesn't need to be shoved in our faces, but it feels completely pushed to the side and shoved onto a character that most of us to be honest don't have much of an emotional connection to. It's like Paz (and Chico, to an extent) was chosen because she'd be the least controversial character to put in that position, since most fans don't have strong feelings toward her one way or another.
*****
Are you saying that AAA gaming's first steps into social/political commentary must be clumsy and awkward?
INeedUrTurnips Simply put, no. Like I said, Bunnyhop's points are valid; I too would like to see more deftly handled material at this level of production. But there is simply no way for auteurs like Kojima to materialize given the current size of the industry. At least for now, it's going to take some serious credential to get something like this off the ground, and typically that comes with the baggage of franchise links and expectations. This has been true of all previous Metal Gear titles, as well as all games I can think of that deal with these themes with this level of production (Spec Ops: The Line comes to mind). The independent games industry is not so tied down, producing games like Papers, Please, so it's not as if there is something particular to the medium that inhibits the deft portrayal of real-world themes, but it may be a long time before this level of finesse is able to come anything close to mainstream.
***** Hence the "I disagree with this guy".
The only discrepancy is the difference in tones between PW and GZ, yet the canon follows the same line, these types of games much like comic books are very much allowed to do these tone swaps.
I don't see how the previous game has any baggage for GZ, any mature gamer should be able to separate the tone of the execution (in PW) with the actual plot, which GZ follows flawlessly so far, albeit the sequel is still short.
There are no real politics in MGS, not even here, eeeeverything is fictional, but Kojima is tending recently towards types of dudes like Sacco&Venzetti, later evidence and events support that they were guilty after all, and in PW he got Che Guevara wrong, the only dangerous tool here is that, that can be mistaken for propaganda, not the natural subjects that derive from war that this game portrays.
majorlyocelot PW's ending was not a secret, you know what to do after the "1st ending" and it didn't require any hard grinding, like I said, it took me one hour, PW was the single easiest MGS game to date it was way easier than playing MGS1 on easy.
The missions while optional, really weren't, it was a main objective put inside side-ops, players today are to used to getting everything spoon fed to them, it's great Kojima is not giving away every single thing if you don't put some effort into it, it's funny that games like TLOU and the Arkham series do the exact same thing yet no one blinks an eye.
The point of the rape thing (which is infact doubtful that Chico actually raped Paz if you think logically) wasn't to tackle a problem in society but to depict something that actually happens in war and to set the villainous nature of Skullface, and as Kojima goes for a darker tone, it would've been hypocritical not to include that, it was tasteful because it was only a tape, so it's clearly not in your face.
It's irrelevant if you had no emotional attachment to Paz, why would you? Not even BB had, I find it funny that you say Paz was the victim...
Chico was ALSO as much of a victim as Paz, the objective of that torture was to get Chico to reveal information, and he did before he could rape Paz because he loved her, then later in their cage Paz decides to give Chico some loving, why would she do that if she was just raped by him?
It makes me think of that South Park episode where a boy is raped by his female teacher and everyone, even the police goes: "niceeeee"
No one to this day has said a word about Chico's suffering.
If it everything happened the same way, but the only difference is that Chico was the one that would get blown up, this topic wouldn't have arose nearly as much attention.
Have a few issues with this. Document destruction is a common practice for all branches of the military since documents can give details on how a unit works and its procedures which if known can help enemies attack them.
Also Guantanamo bay has existed in different capacities in the past i.e. holding refugees in the Clinton era etc.
Parry Nguyen I commented before in another coment for this video but I’ll have to say it again...bunnyhop doesn’t seem to know much at all about the Cold War even less about geography and pretty much noting about American interference in Latin America and america’s imperialist history. Something that kojima did research very well for the Peace Walker . Okay Guantanamo’s purpose wasn’t extrajudicial interrogation tactics before 9/11 but is it surprising from the guys that infected Guatemalan prisoners with syphillisw in a very MK Ultra-like experiment with out even telling them. Same guys that before and after the Cuban misil crisis kept flying “spy” planes (in quotes cause in reality there were and are always spotted cause SURPRISE!! These are non very discreet) and also kept sabotaging the Cuban government by introducing plagues to their crops and diseases to there farm animals. The guys that till the late 90’s have a school IN AMERICAN SOIL that originality was IN FEAKING PANAMA with the sole purpose to train militars of right wing Latin American countries to turn them into paramilitary death squads, showing them the best torture techniques. Okay Guantanamo didn’t torture til after 9/11 what a fucking oversight bro!!! You really show a inconsistency there.
It's funny, I loved your MGS2 video, even subscribed because of it, but I disagree with almost every single thing you say in this video.
He is an ethnocentric Westerner. I bet he'd find Kabuki awkward as hell.
Why? Is there a rule that forbids men to wear make up or a beautiful kimono?
Suwat Saksri I was talking more about the red/white hair banging.
I have to agree, everything he says seems to be more a childish thought that hasn't been fully developed or thought through. For example, stating guantanamo style prisons would be unrealistic before 9-11? This is an alternate reality universe where the state of war and conspiracy has been far more progressive at a much earlier period so it's not unrealistic at all. Not being able to take the serious and the entertainment aspects as separate pieces (such as the talking cat) belittles the point of the entire series since it's always been a far more serious game than comedic but simply has surreal comedy and elements such as the psycho mantis controller and memory card jokes. Did it mean the past character progression, serious tones and great story telling of MGS games was null because it had jokes though? Of course not. Wasn't able to agree with barely a single issue of this review. Sad that hive minds gave it so many upvotes just for speaking rot :(
lol i was about to say the same thing :) I like this guy too but this analysis is a little bit out of place. I see some misinterpretations in his thoughts about this game. But i liked his "critical close ups" about MGS.
Critical Close up of MGS4 when?
Matthewmatosis did a good review of it, if you're interested in seeing over an hour long analytical review of the game.
NANOMACHINES. There, I did it for you. :)
Derkman
And plenty of non-sensical fan service.
Really, please.
I can give you one right now
Metal gear solid 4 is a game that relies way too heavily on its cutscenes to get its narrative across and moments and things from other games in the franchise. It ends up not feeling like its own entity by how much it borrows from past moments. The game play was solid although there really was no need for stealth unless you wanted to challenge yourself. I feel like he'd say something along those lines
The Felyne is obviously not canon. It's just a Monster Hunter crossover mission.
The point wasn’t about whether or not that mission is canon but rather how PW was directed to younger audiences with a light-hearted tone, the given example being that mission.
@@evan_6594 He specifically says "A direct SEQUEL to this" (shows palico from monster hunter)
The monster hunter OPTIONAL content isn't a "sequel" to anything because it isn't canon.
great observations son, but please, 'nuclear' not 'nucular'.
Does anyone else prefer darker Metal Gear Solid?
Me.
Uh huh
Its about time it got dark, otherwise its basically the A-team. Lots of guns, lots of shooting, lots of explosions but ZZz on the narrative. Portable Ops (which is now canon), and peace walker let me down.
Never realized it's been a Rainbow Brite cartoon myself, but I've no complaints as far as the maturity goes for MGSV
***** I guess to me I always figured that most of the "campy" elements were 4th wall breaking stuff and as such weren't "Really" part of the story so I just played it like the campy stuff was for me personaly and the serious shit was for the characters, sorta like two games for the price of one, I personally miss the 4th wall stuff alot now that I think about it, but at the same time I still enjoyed what I got.
it's unbelievable to me that you don't have more subscribers all your videos have really high quality
The part where you mentioned that you have no real reason to feel sympathy for this guy makes me feel that the switch from David Hayter as the voice actor for Big Boss was a bad decision even moreso. I was willing to accept that Kojima had different ideas for the tone of the game, but it feels like all English speaking players are alienated in that Big Boss doesn't FEEL like Big Boss any more. If you were playing the Japanese version, you could at least have the familiarity of the voice that the series has grown with to balance out the drastically different tone and visuals compared to the rest of the series, to act as a sort of anchor-- "this is still a Metal Gear Solid game." Without the anchor of David's voice, I don't feel like I'm playing as the same guy that I played as in MGS3 and Peace Walker, and I don't have any emotional connection or sympathy.
Lamsaturn What? The reason behind Big Boss' inability to gain support from Bunnyhop stems from him being a dick. In MGS3, he was able to play on Big Boss still being somebody who had his morals in tact. As for Sutherland, I'm liking the idea of him being Big Boss. It's not as iconic, but whatever. I guess I can write it off as Big Boss's transition into Richard Doyle mode.
Tooopper Though I have grown to accept that Hayter isn't coming back and that perhaps his voice would not fit in the first place, I still feel Sutherland performance in GZ is pretty poor. It just sounds like he phoned it in. He often sound way to cold or uninterested in what's happening around him. It would make more sense if he started acting like that later on in PP, when he's become a "Demon". Now I'm just sitting here, wishing they'd picked someone else for Big Boss back in MGS3
I guess our ears work differently, because I thought he did a decent job. Hayter, as iconic as he is, didn't have the best acting skills. His voice matched, but for the most part, his dialogue rarely expressed emotion. At the same time, Naked Snake is a soldier who learned to separate feelings from the mission. So though he has his quips, he has always been somewhat cold in nature. Sutherland doesn't change it up much. GZ, though fun, was pretty humorless. The tone was dark, the setting was dark, the story was dark, etc. Sutherland had to play Serious Snake for the entire run time. I hope in PP, they revive some of the comic relief in some form, but to some extent, I can see why it disappoints you. Still, I think Sutherland's acting skills there wasn't the problem as much as it was the tone of the game he had to play in.
Tooopper You were not at all bothered by the fact that he almost slurs out "Keptchuwaitinghuuh" ? Or "she surfifed". I agree Hayter isn't the best, but atleast he sounds slightly interested in what's going on
Josef Stalin And you weren't bothered how a majority of Hayter's line was taking the last two words said to him with a question mark at the end? Or how Hayter didn't act so interested because his voice is pretty much at the same tone 90% of the game? If you want to get really critical about it, none of them are really of great quality, but at the same time, I'm not expecting excellence in acting, because a majority of MGS acting is anything but excellent.
For someone who wrote the Critical Close-Up of MGS2, I expected you to get this game a little better.
Love your videos, but one of these days you're gonna have to learn how to pronounce 'nuclear'
Never have I felt my opinion so concisely and effectly summarized
klumpos Comparishun
Lmao it's like in that Simpsons episode where Homer couldn't spell it. Fucking Americans not even knowing their language, never fails to make me laugh.
This could just be a speech impediment... there's no need to pick out such tiny details and blow them up in such a well prepared discussion video.
Ara Ara It's not their language. They just kept it when they were done with their rebellious teenager phase.
Jesus Christ did that SJW Patrick Klepek write this video for you? Kojima clearly says that the theme for MGS 5 is about "misunderstanding, prejudice, hatred, conflict caused by the difference of language, race, custom, culture, and preference." Those are all subjects that are very taboo. Not to mention this game is about a hero turning into a fucking villian.
That is something that should be applauded to Kojima and not be ridiculed because it doesn't fit the tone of the rest of the series. Look at MGS 5 as the product itself and not by Metal Gear's history. The rape scene was put there to show how evil Skullface is, not to mention the horrors of war. As long as it stays consistent with the canon to Metal Gear, which is already in ways a mess, that is all that should matter.
It's a tick bunnyhop has. SJ crap sometimes pops out. But I never quite though of BB as a villian BEFORE GZ. PW DID have him make a private army that fought for money and had death mechs and nukes at their disposal run by a man that still believes in Santa Clause. BB seemed like a nice guy cause he looked like Snake and Snake was a hero...who shot dudes, broke their necks and ruined a kids life via proxy.
And the arguement for it's tone is understandable. MGS was always a series that had silly, serious and wack ass moments. This game itself is coming off an attempt to get a bunch of manga and K-on lovers to play a MGS game and tries to include stuff like torture, rape, and mass murder with Hollywood actors and cheesy sudo-intellectual songs. Can't do that too well with an IP like Metal Gear or that well from a man who loved the movie Drive. Seriously, that movie was shit! Kojima has no damned taste!
Also, Did you know Quiet is actually Chico? Kid couldn't pass the taste test so divided to grab a moss nugget and get some total boobage to make up for the death of his waifu. Or that's what the internet says anyway.
Greatnocturn I had a difficult job following your rant, but what I can say is that Drive is a great movie.
Oh yeah bro, Metal Gear Solid is SO SERIOUS AND EDGY!!! Bomb in vagina? NEXT-FUCKIN LEVEL MOTHERFUCKERS!
Greatnocturn Drive too slow for you? I enjoyed it for it's unconventional story.
angrytoad1 pls go back to /v/. Throwing buzzwords like "edgy" isn't exactly proving your point.
You lost me when you simply couldn't separate the fictional existence of Camp Omega in 1975 and the actual existence of Guantanamo, starting in 2002.
"How is that possible?!"
Evin Paauwe He can't because Camp Omega is a clear allusion to Guantanamo. He is not criticizing that fact, but the sudden tonal shift from it's direct prequel.
this
bingo Evin
The naval base has existed since 1903. The detention center for terrorists onl6 since 2002
Dude... critical close-up of solid 4.
+Kevin Goeltz He said he'll never do that because he can't take that game seriously at all
Kevin Goeltz ...that's what a critical close-up basically is.
Guypersonmanthing3 Then just do a video about why it's bad XD
Kevin Goeltz Tell him that, and he doesn't really want to do it
Guypersonmanthing3 but I'm sure you and I both agree that he should do it.
Have you ever considered an MGS4 Critical Close-Up?
He briefly mentions why he didn't do that in his MGSV review. He has some big problems with that game (he basically feels like franchise is not as good since MGS4-Peace Walker, that he turned away from it after those games or smth)
he did MGS5 :)
+AydarBMSTU but he did mgs v?
Ze Gogo read again - why he didn't do that IN HIS MGSV REVIEW. IN
+Appz Wrong. He calls MGS4 an indulgent spectacle, despite having massive problems. He considers V to be an even lesser game, with good mechanics, but that is all nearly mitagated by the horribly repetive and insipid mission structure, and a very lackluster story
Paz is actually in her 20s.
Although the commentary is spot on in just about everything, I feel like he is kind of missing the point of MGS. Yes, this game has a completely different tone from the rest, and we kind of have to hit a reset switch in our memories of hiding in cardboard boxes and looking at girl posters, but it is still a MGS game and you have to let your disbelief go and just enjoy the ride. Remember that this is both, a sci fi story and a political controversy and conflict story which by my recollection, they always need for the audience to lose their disbelief in order to enjoy it, also, throughout the ages, literature has been telling real issues or truths disguised as sci fi or fiction in order not to be attacked as some sort of propaganda.
MGS has always dealt with touchy subject matter, perhaps not in this tone, but in order to get away with showing this subject matter, it needs to be clear that it is a fictional work and it helps to include all the ridiculous characters and campy humor, otherwise it could have been a very controversial saga, and that is if it hadn't bombed by taking itself too seriously.
I am looking forward to MGS:V because I am a long time fan and although I am intrigued with the new tone and what we could possibly see and all the politically charged subject matter we will be exposed to, I also love the whole supernatural scifi campy side of it.
And I think we can empathize with Big Boss because, although we know he will become the villain of the series, we'll know the process of his transformation and the motives that drove him to transform. All the pain caused to him which led him to strive for revenge. This is an interesting undertone within a goofy setting and IMO it will probably be the best MGS yet in both story and gameplay.
PS: crap, does youtube still have a character limit? I hope not otherwise I typed all this in bane.
Yes brother, yes.... everyone should read this post. While I respect the opinions of everyone involved in this conversation it is important to understand what we're discussing. A Game, fiction, mature content, viewer digression is advised.
I'm not a hardcore fan of the MGS series, in fact I have not played any of them. But because of my interest in games in general, and games as a medium for narrative and storytelling in particular, I really enjoyed this video alot. Very good job!
Well, there's never been a better time to get into it than now with the Legacy pack.
Did you seriously call Metal Gear Rising: Revengence an alternate universe?
The game it self calls it as an alternate universe mission. It takes place in the 70's and you play as a cyborg ninja from the future who is hunting body snatchers. Snatcher is a quite old game by Kojima.
Oh and just a side note: high frequency blades need energy in order to work, and Raiden cannot get elecrolytes from non-robotic enemies.
Arexion5293 I know all that. I'm just sick of butthurt fans decrying Rising as a non-canon game because Raiden.
Despite the fact that Kojima is fine with the game because he never gave a shit about the MGS timeline beyond 4 (Okay, he never actually cared for 4 itself, but Konami refuses to let him make anything else at this point.)
*****
He never truly wanted a sequel in the first place, but he realised that he didn't want to see the series turn to trash after leaving it, so he worked on MGS2 and hard. And to be honest, I'm somewhat happy that they don't talk about happenings of MGS2 in 4 that much, since.. well, it's kinda supposed to be questionable if MGS2's events even truly happen.
MGR is kinda a parody of MGS series as whole and at the same time it is a logical continuation, considering the technology. Harvesting brains of children sounds absurd, but in MGS universe, it somewhat fits, since they have developed the cyborg technology that far. And thus Raiden can see what his VR simulation could've been if he had been born later.
So.. it's a strange mix of both parody and seriousness in one, which fits, since MGS has always been both goofy and serious. It's a succesful parody if you ask me.
And Sam is probably one of my favourite boss fights of all time.
***** Well the truth is that Kojima himself said that it's a spin-off and he sees Revengeance as parallel-story taking place in parallel universe.
/watch?v=n6OGvhlKNzw here's the video. So yeah,,,
***** Kojima's kind of lying there, or at the very least misremembering the torturous development of MGRR. /watch?v=gV1BMUg4NsA
I dont get it...you complained and cry about games not being chalenging, games not being as they were before...and when someone realese a game that chalange the player, force you to replay, force you to put an effort into it, you complain and cry about that too...so, what would make you happy?...I dont get it.
And I'm saying this with all due respect...I just dont get your point of view...
I'll probably come of like a total fanboy or whatever, but I disagree with almost everything you said in this video. Which is definately the first time i do that.
Oh and one other thing I wanted to touch on was the whole vagina bomb/snuke thing. I find it pretty strange that you and a lot of other people are particularly irked about this detail and I think it speaks a lot about our society's negative association with sex/sexual organs, yet apathy towards violence. There was no mention of being disgusted over having to cut open an awake person and dig a bomb out of their abdomen (which I found particularly hard to watch), yet the minute a vagina came into the picture, it was all of the sudden it's 'juvenile', 'deplorable', 'strange', or 'disgusting'.
From a logical standpoint, it was a brilliant move on Skull Face's behalf to place a bomb there. Of course you're going to go for the freshly stitched up chest instead of performing a cavity search. It's also a more accessible orifice to store a device than say, the anus, due to the natural elasticity of the vaginal interior. And as he said, it was some place they'd never think to check. So I don't find the idea of a bomb being hidden there as juvenile or strange; it makes perfect sense in the context of this narrative.
As far as it being more deplorable than an abdominal implant, I think you need to get your head checked if you think this is the case. It's clear what feminism and society are doing to people, and it's not right. If you're seriously hyper focusing on the fact that a bomb was placed inside her vagina, and your issue is that it was 'rape' (improper use of the term by the way in this video; there were no sexual motives in this act, it was merely a functional implant), your priorities are sadly skewed. The vagina is an organ meant to house external objects and stretch enough to pass a baby; it can be done without surgical aid. Your abdomen is and was never meant to hold anything but your organs and you can die from your body rejecting foreign material. I GUARANTEE you it would hurt much more to have your abdomen cut open while you were awake and sober and have an object put in/taken out of it than have your vagina house a large, but manageable object. This whole 'rape > murder' stance is the worst kind of feminist brainwash.
Very well put. I was actually a complete 180 from your stance when I first heard about the second bomb (haven't actually played GZ yet...), but you made a pretty good point and have changed my mind on it. Grant it, I have only heard people talk about it, I haven't actually seen any of this yet. I think people in general also got to also take into consideration that while MGS may have an American feel to it, it IS a Japanese game. Japan has a considerably different culture than us, certain things are not tabooed there that is there and vice versa, so maybe this isn't as bad from a Japanese stand point? I wouldn't know, but I'm just saying one should look at the entire context of something before making a judgement on it.
While I don't think you should throw feminists under the bus, I think your point is valid. Many feminists, myself included, have written about and discussed the double standard between sex and violence, and much of what you're saying is deeply reflected in our political, social and cultural landscape. There's also an important distinction between sex as a physical act or psychological desire and sexuality as a concept independent of physical intimacy or liaisons.
When Paz gets a bomb implanted in her vagina, it reflects the violation of personal space that occurs when someone has been sexually assaulted. The vagina isn't just a bunch of folds of skin tucked between one's legs. Because of years of concerted efforts to repress women's sexuality while also objectifying them, the vagina has somewhat ironically turned into this sacred organ. It's one of the reasons why the virgin/whore complex is such a massive component of how we've come to view sexuality in Western society and abroad. Turning Paz's vagina into a weapon both dehumanizes her and it highlights what lengths we are willing to go to conduct acts of war. As you suggested, taking a militaristic, utilitarian approach to a woman's private parts highlights what sort of sociopathic pragmatism we are willing to adopt to kill our enemies.
I think that's ultimately what the fuss is about, and again, while I agree with your basic observation, I don't think it's entirely fair to reject the psycho-sexual and ideological implications of weaponizing a woman's vagina. Sex and sexuality do not exist in a vacuum. They permeate every facet of our lives - political, social, religious, cultural, economic, etc. If they took a male character and sodomized him or placed a bomb in his penis, I'd argue much of the same.
It's not enough to just take a strictly clinical view of the human body and say "well, it's just a vagina". Purely scientifically speaking, we're just upright standing apes with big brains and opposable thumbs. But we also have ideas, beliefs and issues we take personally, including using our bodies as instruments of destruction, whether through coercion or volition. Whether we like it or not, we are moral beings, and that includes our moral inclination towards sexuality. And believe me, I'm saying this as a feminist who has a big problem with people screaming bloody murder when Janet Jackson's tit shows up during the Superbowl despite the fact that the news has no problem showing people basically getting mutilated everyday. You'd probably be surprised to see how many gender studies critics (including feminists) would agree with your premise, although I think the conclusions you are drawing based on that premise are incorrect.
As you said, it makes perfect tactical sense, but it really drives home what kind of fucked up person would want to do that, same with putting a bomb in someone's stomach. It's really not too different from suicide bombers, child soldiers and protesters who go on hunger strikes. I think the question we should take away from Paz's situation, sex politics set aside, is "what are you willing to do to yourself and those around you to win the war?"
As for the people saying it's a Japanese game and therefore "very different" or some such. I strongly disagree. I really feel that people grossly overestimate the reach and depth of cultural exchange and globalization, especially in today's digital environment. I have a strong formal and personal understanding of Japanese culture and I've never even set foot in the country. Many Japanese scholars and other nationals can assert that I've got a pretty decent grasp of the culture despite not having been there. The same is true for Japanese people viewing American culture. They know quite a bit about us, and their academic and social interpretations tend to be very accurate. Of course the Japanese have a different culture than ours, but people keep using the "Japanese games are culturally alien" argument so much that they're making it seem as though the Japanese are from another galaxy.
While I haven't seen anyone here do this, it also strikes me as culturally insensitive to presume that the Japanese just stumble around with it comes to the values of other cultures - that they're too stupid or just don't know any better, and offensive things just kind of fall into their games. It's condescending. Yes, the Japanese are quite different from us in many ways, but they're not a different species operating on a different brain wavelength or something. Kojima likely put two and two together and hopefully realized for a moment that some people are going to be uncomfortable with a female getting a bomb shoved into her ladybits and her torso.
matsuringo24, brother or sister, I feel you. I totally agree with the fact that we as a society would rather see a "Cool Murder" than a subtle mention of a sexual organ. I still can't wrap my mind around that one. Violence not sex, what kind of world are we living in people? And how is everyone suddenly an expert on the art of another, something they, themselves had nothing to do with. Please, enjoy the ride or get the fuck off, please (just my opinion).
*****
I'm pretty certain you missed my point entirely.
*****
Uh...No, sunshine. Thanks for playing, but you guessed wrong. If anything, I was arguing, among other things that no doubt flew right over your head, that female sexuality being a sacred concept is part of what has caused some problematic gender roles. Holding women up as these virtuous, chaste little angels and then getting surprised when they do morally reprehensible things is a major issue that negatively affects both men and women. I actually don't have much of a problem with the whole vagina bomb issue in and of itself. It's bizarrely interesting, to say the least.
While I don't know how in the hell (or why) you went through the pseudo-intellectual gymnastics of suggesting that I'm devaluing human rights in favor of feminism, I don't want to know because something tells me you'll just rant away with the same drivel about how "social justice warriors", feminist critics and "white knights" make you throw a hissy fit if they even entertain the possibility that there might be a narrative subtext to what Kojima is saying about women and the human condition in general.
I do, however, agree with the author of this video when he suggests that it's a bit off-putting when you account for the schizophrenic, manic-depressive tone for which the Metal Gear Solid series is notorious. Hey, let's get a wonderfully insightful and intelligent commentary on the psychological implications of the military-industrial complex. Oh wait. a guy named Psycho Mantis is telling me how much I like to play Castlevania. Hey, let's explore the geopolitical ramifications of the nuclear arms race and what effect it has had on the global economy. Oh wait. There's a naked dude doing cartwheels while his supervisor is telling him (you) to turn the Playstation off. Hey, let's illustrate what happens when a legendary soldier is forced to come to terms with his impending obsolescence and his inevitable mortality. Oh wait. Some dude is running around with irritable bowel syndrome and a guy named Revolver Ocelot is making hammy speeches because your dead twin brother is possessing him via his formerly severed hand.
Some chick gets a bomb planted in her guts and her ladybits, and some people astutely note that there might be something symbolic about it insofar as it is thematically significant. I mean, this is Kojima we're talking about, for Christ's sake. There's no telling what's running through that head of his, and it is both the series' greatest strength and its greatest weakness. In my opinion, at least. And you know what? It's perfectly fine to disagree with that analysis, but A.) don't be so damn juvenile about it if you do disagree and B.) form a rational counterargument with at least some semblance of scholarship and civility.
But of course, the typical response from some people in cyberspace is basically throwing a series of vulgarity-laden childish temper tantrums about how those mean old progressives are ruining our precious games by engaging in this horrible, detestable little thing called critical analysis. How dare you read into the stuff I like or don't like! I mean, really. It's like the mindset of a 4-year-old who kicks and screams and refuses to understand why he can't eat chocolate and hang upside-down on the monkey bars all day.
You don't seem to understand how arguments work, especially since you haven't really substantiated your "perspective" with anything of empirical merit. Bonus points for the juvenile rhetoric that doesn't really address the issues raised by either me or the video. He made some strong points, and the bit about Paz's bombs was REALLY not that big of a deal, contrary to what some other commenters here seem to have registered.
But go ahead. Call me a feminazi, a white knight, the ever-so-popular "fag" or whatever the fuck else is popular right now. Keep lexically bastardizing the word "literally" like so many other people do. Just keep massaging that fragile little ego of yours because lord knows the anonymity and physical displacement of the Internet gives you a false sense of security like it does with so many other people online.
I always love your videos. I never played a MGS game in my life (however it is getting higher on my to do list) but you were able to be able to tell me all of your thoughts on this game flawlessly with me being able to understand everything that you stated.
They are amazing, but I feel that to fully understand the story, it is important to play them in order.
#opinion
Random question: all these years later, did you play them? :) And if so, what did you think about them?
1:50 graceful is not a word commonly associated with Kojima's writing.
Wait wait wait, why are you talking about Mecha Robots like they are some kind of childish toy?, Xenogears was about really serious subjects and had Mecha Robots, I don't see why a story with it's own logic and version of history can't be serious
I agree with about a half to two thirds of what you said.
Yeah, the game is a bit too heavy-handed for its own good with its Gitmo subject matter (the post ending timeline for example mentions its current state, yet utterly skims over a line that translates to 'Solidus is born'). The idea of it being 'doomed by canon' is a bit subjective though. Yes, it really clashes with the whimsical, bonkers tone of Peace Walker, and the decision to tie it so closely to an extra ending of a game not as many people played is a bad one.
But for some reason, those absurd moments are always overshadowed in my mind by its darker moments, such as Big Boss's final speech, his uncertainty against Kaz's enthusiasm, and Chico being loaded with dramatic irony as Big Boss' first child soldier.
I guess that's me shifting the blame to myself rather than the developers, but when I think of Peace Walker's place in relation to the other games, those are what stick out, not the return to fantastical elements even if they can't really be avoided. But I think that the occasional unease is a bargain price to pay when seeing Metal Gear headed in a new, darker direction for The Phantom Pain. Hell, I've had Kaz's "Why are we still here?" monologue from the red band trailer run through my head more than any other Metal Gear quote.
Kojima has stated that the series' trademark goofiness will come back in that a little more (along with the cardboard box) which may make it slightly less jarring from a tone perspective. We'll have to wait and see.
I also don't necessarily agree with you on having no sympathy for Big Boss. Even if he's doomed by canon to become a villain and is halfway there already, the journey itself is still a painful one. Peace Walker ended with him throwing away the will of The Boss, which we understand from MGS4 ('Let the World Be'). Seeing him slip further and further into the battle-driven warlord with deep emotional scarring as he's characterised in Metal Gear 2, driven by betrayal and being spurred by Kaz's singlemindedness, is a fulfilling of dramatic irony like MGS3 was. It's like a trail of errors, and seeing him succumb to one after the other, embracing them more and more makes me want to think of 'what could have been'. He's a tragic antihero, and what's keeping me hooked is the fulfilling of that tragedy.
But for all I've written, I don't want to undersell the rest of the video. You can't really ignore the links and clashes with Peace Walker so this game should have had its own tone as a bridge between it and The Phantom Pain, the rape scene was needlessly ends-focused and problematic, and it doesn't cash out its political themes to the extent that it should - an hour of cutscene and tape placed in an extracted inciting incident leaves it somewhat unfulfilling.
I don't think the 'innocent' was really meant to refer to Snake, though. It's pretty clearly meant to be Chico and (to a certain degree, albeit mostly coming from the repositioning she gets in Phantom Pain) Paz.
Chico's on his knees in the chopper.He isn't standing up
You know it's an ironic thing- people (especially gamers) want to hold up video games as 'art,' then absolutely crucify people for actually doing something serious which steps outside people's comfort zone.
I find it more of an insult a franchise like Mario (and probably COD) can release the exact same game for 30 years and have a monopoly on people's money without feeling the need to change much. But hey, games are just dumb fun right?
I get it, "It'd be fine if it was only done gracefully..."
But gracefully? are you kidding me? There is no graceful way to depict rape, onscreen or offscreen. It's dirty, humiliating, debilitating and wrong. People still don't understand how to even critique serious games, because the issue of being in control of somebody's actions in the story- makes for conflicting feelings.
Although apparently we should judge Metal Gear by the exact same standards of the 1987 game because it's part of the same series. By that logic, maybe I should snub my nose at a torture scene in modern 007, because in Dr. No people were scared of a giant, firebreathing, totally not-a-tank object that looked ridiculous. Plenty of things shift in tone, and the ONLY way to actually make people think about sensitive topics, is to bring it to the fore in popular culture.
Would you prefer a cohesive universe trying to address something serious, or a one-off very depressing story that is self contained and does not relate itself to a bigger picture? I know what i think is more appealing, and more useful.
We already have a million "The Expendables" type movies, and a thousand 'COD' type games, it is not bad that Metal gear Solid is attempting something sensitive.
Jeremy Watssman And let me tell you why I think 'Skullface' is not the be all and end all here. The 'skullface is a ridiculous looking cartoon villain' thing, is a total red herring here.
Why? Because games and movies at large are generally a form of idealistic portrayal and wish fullfillment. Big Boss is a character, James Bond is a character, Indiana Jones is a character. To say that physical character appearance here should dictate the complete scenario, is lacking in the very premise it is engaging with.
Apart from often possessing impossible traits of skill and prowess, characters like the above are figures of ideal masculinity. What I'm getting at here? Most the figures you know and love in entertainment are more often than not already shallow caricatures of actual human beings. This is the same industry that within the context of shallow movies it pumps out are already depicting sexual violence.
Kojima is actually one to play with conventions and expand characters motivations beyond the usual required amount. Do you think it would've escaped Kojima Productions notice that in this game "Evil= Man with skull for a face"?
It is being set up for a variety of dark and flushed out payoffs here. We know skullface has an intricate past, we know it ties to big boss, and we know it will lead to a dark spiral downwards. It doesn't set Chico and Paz up to be tragic heroes which are martyred for Big Boss. It shows them as human characters with flaws and weaknesses and as those who essentially just "got in the way" and were useful in the conflict.
Sounds like a more realistic portrayals of detainees and POWs to me- whatever you want to call them. War is ugly, and senseless, and torture is psychological, methodical let inconsistent. Ticks all of those boxes. So yes it has balls in attempting to balance all elements, even if results vary.
***** I don't think you even believe that ignorant statement. If you're suggesting the 5 main games, and few supplementary ones somehow both parallels and exceeds Mario in some way for games that don't know when to let go or introduce some originality- then you've got some serious issues.
Every Metal Gear Solid game has NEVER been afraid to completely re contextualise its series. Seeing as you don't have the basic ability of hindsight, here's how it would've gone, had the MGS makers been unambitious milkers of a cash cow;
1) Metal Gears are released, originally as an aesthetic and gameplay type of NES stealth- they're building into they're own style gradually and are popular in Japan, and garnering interest elsewhere.
2)Metal Gear Solid is released- it turns out to be a breakout success with its movie-like attributes and blend of realism and fantasy.
3) Metal Gear Solid 2 brings much the same that was refined in 1- Solid snake in a solo infiltration mission- no risky subtext of cognitive dissonance, breaking the story to send a message, or deceiving the fanbase. It probably rates highly across a number of areas including graphics but perhaps the story isn't as favoured.
4) Metal Gear Solid 3 is released- This time There's no return to Big Boss or change of character. Like Mario it's just safer to have the same character in the same context. Solid Snake returns again in another mission only he can complete
You really don't realise how easy it would be to do this, and make a fuck load of money at the same time. But MGS has never taken that turn, and while they are faithful to so many elements, also not afraid to turn the series on its head with each release.
***** I haven't said or assumed you didn't like these games. But look at it this way, the validity or value of art doesn't always rely on the artists intentions as much as it does with the audience and how they receive the piece. If (and this doesn't seem to be very likely) Kojima was phoning it in yet still putting out quite compelling material that he is, then I do not consider that beating a dead horse. People can tell when a game is insincere; hence why almost every movie tie-in game that was hastily crapped out, sucks big time.
However I don't think this is the case anyway. The reluctance might be there in the initial stages, undertaking such a big task for a huge franchise, but the effort is always there and put in 100%. Even in the games that are less popular in the series.
Already for for MGS V we're anticipating seeing how the game will juggle such open world freedom, with the dark themes, supernatural elements and classic silliness one has come to expect of the franchise.
Every game in the series has had a lengthy on camera torture scene. It seems odd to complain about this being set in a location associated with torture, but to be OK with the on screen torture in the previous games.
13:07 - Che Guevara's purported last words. Man, I love this absurdist/historical juxtaposition. EDIT: Also, creepy - kinda. Catchy? Fuck yes. This agony is your triumph. EDIT EDIT: In retrospective investigation, Sacco may have had something to do with it, Vanzetti was almost assuredly innocent. Both fried, however, and both fried under false pretenses. Whether or not they were guilty was irrelevant - they were convicted not from the evidence but from the agenda of judge Thayer and many others in the justice system. They were Italian when it wasn't a good idea to be Italian, and they were Anarchists in a global system that feels threatened by Anarchism, especially back then.
It's a strange but apt parallel between the warped views of Italian immigrants back then, and Muslim immigrants nowadays. Both in their times have an aire of "otherness" within American society. Both had religions considered strange, both arrived saddled with the stereotype of violence. For Italians, violent Anarchism,Marxism, and crime. For Muslims, violent Wahhabism/Salafism. History doesn't repeat, but it sure as hell rhymes.
It really wasn't that hard to unlock the real ending in mgs peace walker
It wasn't the difficulty, it was something where you have to go out of your way to get it. Think about it, how many Extra Ops did you have to complete to get the next Zadornov chase mission? The Zeke parts you had to get as well. The true ending happens well after the ending that many people got and were done with the game since they didn't care for those Extra Ops. And those people were completely out of the loop because of it.
To me, it was obvious to find the rest of the zeke parts, I really didn't care for the extra ops. Maybe the ending was intended for people who didn't just play the game and laid down the controller and said "that's it" as soon as the credits rolled.
Napline Wander It wasn't incredibly obvious. The fact that you had Zadornov perpetually captive (well, except when he escapes) was what made me think that something happens when you keep catching him. Though I though you unlock new maps and gear, not another plot point.
Why would you think that? The Zadornov missions were classified as main missions, therefore they had to have built on the main story (which they did).
Napline Wander There weren't any major cutscenes between the ending and where you confront Zadornov for the last time. Also, credits. Those usually get me to think the story is completed.
George, I feel that your inclusion of the goofy rolling movement at 2:05 is not tonally consistent with the rest of the video and leads to a strange juxtaposition of silly humor and deep talk of war crime and torture.
0/10.
But seriously, great video once again. Keep 'em coming.
I get a kick out of all the people who don't agree with Bunnyhop's opinion but also don't have anything to say to counter-argue what he said, so they just attack him for mispronouncing the word "nuclear" instead. Yeah, guys. You showed him who's boss. Yeah...
Great video, but I disagree on a few things:
While Peace Walker was definitively campier than Ground Zeroes, It still had a pretty mature message when you got down to it. It dealt with themes like nucluar deterency and finding your identity, and using the secret optional Monster Hunter-based missions as illustration for the games theme is just wrong, since they are way sillier than the rest of the game and not canon at all. You might as well have used the Deja Vu and Jamais Vu missions as an example for how Ground Zeroes tone is.
While Big Boss certainly ins't "innocent", he is not yet a villain. He has recruited one child soldier, yes, but that was more or less to save his life. His unit has a nuke, yes, but it is only used for deterrence if necessary, and he was initially against having it. I feel the term "antihero" is better used for him in general, honestly. Hell, he even infiltrated Camp Omega to rescue Chico and Paz, knowing full and well that it was a trap. A straight up villain wouldn't do that.
Lastly, how GZ handles the controversial themes. I honestly felt it handled them well for the most part. Compared to how most games and other media handle it's dark themes, at least. Feminists love to rant about how the handled Paz and how she was "raped" (I never really heard she were raped in the tapes, only applied), before then blowing up by a "vagina bomb"(Which might more likely have been in her womb, as this again were only implied), but I honestly like her more after GZ. In PW she just seemed like too much of a generic, young, anime-girl or something, that were secretly evil. In Ground Zeroes I felt they made her more down-to-earth and real, I would imagine Cipher torturing her like that if she let them down. And let's not forget that Chico were tortured and humiliated too. I feel that everyone does. Don't understand people who were offended by this at all. Then again, you didn't rag about it too much in the video, so I'll stop here.
But all in all, good video. I got where you were coming from for the most part.
Trust me, you can hear one of Skullfaces men unzip his fly then drag her away. Then the tape skips and then comes back to him thrusting into her as she moans. It wasn't at all implied.
Thunder .Jack
Maybe I just didn't notice that, she seemed to moan pretty much all the time (although for different reasons). Still, I think they handled it decently well. I mean, it IS supposed to be distasteful and all that.
Oliver Kjølner I agree, the contrast between the Paz tapes and the Chico tapes really set the tone. I don't think Kojima could have done it better.
Honestly, one of the things I love about Metal Gear Solid is that the tone is so vastly inconsistent. One minute you're listening to a political recap of the Cold War, SALT and nuclear nonproliferation, the next you're getting groped by the president. If anything the problem isn't that Ground Zeroes was so mature it's that there wasn't something fun in the main game to balance out the darker aspects.
The tonal shift is one of my favourite things in MGS V TPP ! Like , one minute you're sending russians into the sky with baloons to the sound of Take On Me and the next you're playing mission 43
I don't know about this one George. I'll keep watching for now, but I feel you're slipping up a lot. Long comment incoming.
I think you're wrong in your assumptions about the Big Boss and his relatability to the player. In fact, I find it difficult to believe that you _cannot_ relate or feel sorry about Big Boss after the events of MGS3 and PW. First the man was played as a pawn and had to kill his mentor, which was emotional on all of us. Next he raised an army solely on his ideals, which left you feeling pretty good at the end of PW (with the whole Paz secret ending setting up questions for the future). With the semi-high note that PW ends on being utterly blown apart by GZ's plot, I just find it hard anyone can't relate to the fact this man's life's work just got crushed right in front of him.
Yeah we all know who he'll become, but who's to say Kojima isn't going to retcon BB into a less overtly evil character? In the era of MG1/2, you had to write your villains as clearly evil because it wasn't easy to write subtle characters with the hardware limitations. Hell, in BB's MGS4 scenes, he doesn't seem outright evil in the slightest, so it could be argued he's already been toned down. Is it really hard to understand why Big Boss wants to live outside the confides of a society that wronged him? At this point, he's going down as a villain who arguably has a better motivation than the 'good guys'.
Another thing is that Big Boss's actions are being met in your eyes through your moral compass and you're failing to take that into consideration. There's nothing inherently evil about making your own army, or hiding your weapons/documents from scrutiny. It was established in PW that the world wasn't going to like MSF. Hiding those things wasn't done because of bad intentions, but rather because the world wouldn't react well to their presence. A similar case can be said about his use of child soldiers. At this point, he hasn't recruited any beyond Chico, and he isn't forcing him to fight any more than he already was before he joined MSF. That aside, one could argue he's going to give his future child soldiers a more stable life than whatever war torn country they were in. Sure they have more fighting ahead of them, but MSF isn't a brutal regime that will abuse them. Using traditional morality to judge BB and MSF is your flaw in this video, because the idea of MSF transcends that very morality.
Very well put together, George. I think you've reinforced my belief that MGS should have ended a while back. All the games after work better as their own thing.
But I am willing to forgive GZ for its baggage because someone finally mentioned Guantanamo. Being an Iraqi and having lived through shit happening around me as a child strongly contradicts my current life as a student in what is arguably the most progressive country on the planet, with video games as my biggest hobby. GZ would absolutely work better as its own thing. In fact, aside from basically 10 minutes of Peace Walker, it kind of is a secluded story in the larger universe. However, personally, that's fine. I wish this game did better and had less people bawking over price and length, because the subject matter should be what is talked about.
In another note, I find it much easier to empathise with Big Boss than you. Mostly because, even though MSF is absolutely a PMC, the only missions we know about were to aid Nicaraguan rebels and one to destroy a gone-rogue CIA operation working on a nuclear superweapon. They're kinda philanthropic, and Peace Walker tried very hard to paint MSF as a Robin Hood of military: lawless, but consequently ethical. That the operation requires big national forces to be busy is true, and sort of reversed in his philosophy: big nations are too busy to protect those who end up in their path to making goals (a code he got after MGS3 events). The scene where BB turns Chico into a soldier was fine by me because some people really have no choice. The nuclear weapon was made to make sure that they can strike back if some country wants them crushed. That it is an organisation fed by war is true, but this _is_ a story about a soldier trying to find a way to be one while being 'good'. I'm not saying BB is innocent, and certainly nowhere as it is with Sacoo and Vanzetti, but his conflict comes from being a weapon which is trying to make peace, and that's admirable. I can't wait to see how twisted his moral compass becomes such that he becomes a villain.
That a villain is slowly being made from a hero is some fantastic writing to see, all must admit. The transition is so slow and well reasoned that it is actually making me empathise with said villain. I like what you said about the tapes, though. And I strongly agree that a story about Guantanamo and US torture has to be tied to MGS's ridiculous fucking story. Nonetheless, I look at the rest of videogames, and this is still far ahead. It's still a much more mature look at military than other military games I can think of, even if it has to carry the mecha figurines along. I am very happy that you want and expect more out of the medium, tough.
+iDragonarion I know I am replying to this a month or so late. But I just want to say that what you wrote is excellent and seems very thought through - so unlike many of the others under this video.
I wish more people, especially on this forsaken website, would be as sensible in their argumentation as you. Perhaps much of it comes down to simple maturity, which a large portion of RUclips users most likely are not able to demonstrate yet.
*****
+iDragonarion Metal Gear Solid largely has a fantastic story, or fantastic concepts that can be interpreted differently without being inaccurate (Big Boss being a hypocrite for his "no nations" nation, but also being driven by making a "no nations" nation for soldiers who were abandoned by their government; he's both, and not simply one or the other).
I also feel like the general "shock factor!" complaints about critics is equivalent to First World Problems. Yeah, a rape scene in a fucking Metal Gear game is outta nowhere, but people saying "this wasn't done in a mature or tasteful way" seriously don't seem to understand the sheer lack of moral consciousness in demanding a "better rape scene."
Like, seriously. A rape scene is meant to be uncomfortable. I cannot make a rape scene comfortable. Complain all you want about it being "immature," but I'd rather highlight a problem that you seem to be refusing to acknowledge.
love the insight to all the videos I watch that you put out..greatly appreciated
One day after the release of this video, Someone from Kojima Productions said this to gameinformer:
"He wants you to feel close to him, reduce the friction and see what players make of it. And Snake doesn't talk as much. He said, if he talks too much then we have to pay Kiefer Sutherland a lot more!"
well thats sad
It's an obvious joke.
BrimusPungle that could be very fucking well rooted in truth. On my first playthroughs I realized that we dont see Big Boss' face moving as he speaks and I thought that happened so we wouldnt be so weirded out about it. Now I realize the reason for that is MOTION CAPTURE WITH KIEFER SUTHERLAND PROBABLY IS EXPENSIVE AS FUCK
This is true but look on the bright side: the amazing facial acting will be right along with it. It could make for a much more subdued, subtle, performance. Should be great.
***** hmm that's really interesting, i didnt know that...I wonder if he is still expensive in vg midia? anyway, thanks for the comment
It's not clear that Sutherland gets payed by the line. Even if he was, Kojima knew what he was doing before he started.
More likely than not Kojima is just making an artistic decision. He's moving towards show, don't tell; replacing codex with subtle character body language. We're also seeing a villainous snake and making him more quite might be a way of giving more distance and allow us to judge his actions.
what are the digital artifacts if they're not lens flares? 7:21
"I'm fully able to enjoy something, while also pointing out its flaws" is such a bad excuse to "disarm" criticism of your criticism - don't use that. The video was good though, even for non-hardcore-fans like me who just like to evesdrop on the discussions about Metal Gear.
This video could have done with a better intro: it deserves better in my opinion.
I disagree the number of times I've seen writers and video makers criticise an aspect of a game they enjoyed and have people leap at their throats for it, it makes sense to preempt it. Just recently Campster pointed out that the slavery mechanics in ACIV: Freedoms Cry are poorly designed and a touch hypocritical and he got _swamped_ by people telling him that it was a fun game and he should stop hating on it.
Thomas L Pre-empting criticism is just rhetorical bullshit: if people aren't responding to the content of a statement, then you're free to ignore them and don't give them any attention - those statements obviously don't matter anyway.
***** I don't see how this disarm his critic. He's trying to be a decent human being with basic human decency. Not lifting his opinion over others because of mean snobish Selfishness like most people on the web, who don't even care to write something like "in my opinion", "from what I understand", "the way I see it" and so on.
***** "if people aren't responding to the content of a statement, then you're free to ignore them and don't give them any attention." But they usually aren't responding to the content of a statement, they're making their own. The reason critics and analysts iterate the statement is to prevent people from criticizing them for a completely different argument (that they hate / don't like the entire game) over the one they're making (small aspects they disagree with). Too often people take curious nitpicking as an attack on the whole.
What part of " wahwahwah, you disliked one aspect of the game so you must be a hater wahwahwah i am going to kill you wahwahwah troll wahwahwah" is a thoughtful or valid critique?
The song Here's to You isn't even supposed to represent Big Boss and his crew. It's pretty obvious that it's about Chico and Paz.
@Generic RUclips Channel The original ending had Snake and Otacon executed for their crimes. That's why.
The base at Guantanamo Bay was founded in 1898, it has been in constant use by America since 1898. Americans holding a prisoner there in 1975 is not outside of the realm of possibility and it is consistent with our history.
I dunno, I thought the rape was handled more tastefully than I would have expected a video game to handle it. To be honest, I straight up didn't even know there was a rape scene in this game until I had gone through the main mission several times. So it wasn't something the were trying to shove in peoples faces to try to offend them and create shock value.
And this honestly seems like a trend in games media where villains aren't allowed to act like villains. Oh no, don't do anything awful, that's offensive! It just seems like people want cartoon slapstick villains that don't actually do anything bad.
You are SUPPOSED to hate villains, and find what they do offensive. That's what makes them villains. But nowadays, you can't have a really evil villain without being called edgy, or just trying to shock people and create controversy.
"Hatred" is a blatant example of shock value and creating artificial controversy. Ground Zeroes is obviously quite different from that.
"A lot of that stuff seems like stuff that'll get explained in Phantom Pain."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
To me it just sounds like you're having a bad time trying to make this particular game fit with its predecessors. The game stands by its own with a different dark tone, that's it.
So that's what we do now? We call someone a "social justice warrior" for discussing an aspect of MGSV that some felt to be an uncomfortable tonal shift in a series? A series KNOWN for it's nonsense logic and silliness? Please...
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with George's assessment. What I AM saying is George took the time to put together this video -- editing isn't magic, people -- so the least you could do is act like adults, keep your childish and dismissive put-downs to yourselves, and explain why you disagree in a respectful manor.
Also, "SJW" has officially lost all original meaning. It's right up there with "bias" in the "I wanna put you down without explaining why" e-debate lexicon. There are frustrating, thin-skinned, drama-baiting SJWs out there, but to throw it around like it means nothing WILL MAKE IT MEAN NOTHING.
"You wanna discuss a feeling you had? SJW"
"You didn't like the portrayal of X? SJW."
[Edited for grammar and clarity. I also wanted to add that everyone is arguing the merits of MGSV's newly found maturity in an incredibly immature manner and it struck me as hilariously ironic.]
Well put, well put.
It's a shame, but actual discourse on the internet just seems like a Sysphean experiment in getting oil and water to mix.
It's like somewhere along the line a bunch of people woke up one morning and breathed in some strange gas which made them suffer severe allergic reactions when confronted with people who think differently than they do.
The internet has pretty much become the strawman super highway. It's easier to encapsulate your complaints in one hyper-generalized, absurd caricature than it is to meticulously tackle the message.
The tl;dr generation's creation.
All MGS games have a prequel part that gets you into the controls,
MGS1 has the underground area, MGS2 has the tanker, MGS3 has the virtuous mission, MGS4 has Act1, I think with each new game the prequel part gets larger and now it is so big it is its own stand alone game.
As horribly badly it clashes, the fact that this super grimdark game is canon with peace walker is pretty hilarious to me.
I want phantom pain to have a totally played straight scene where Snake and Miller contemplate the ethics of hiring mercenaries via balloon kidnapping.
With the crocodile hat. Please.
It's called Fulton Recovery. It's a real thing. Look it up.
Oh I believe that, just not that it was used to instantly make enemy soldiers join your merc group.
Now this is why I subscribed to Super Bunnyhop months ago. George Weidman's videos are serious and take themselves seriously. These videos don't recite facts. They aren't diluted with awkward, childish humor or regurgitate the opinion of the internet; but rather actually provide an in depth analysis of the themes, motifs, and content of whatever topic is discussed. They allow for criticism from the viewers who can supply their opinion in the comment section (which is a good thing, btw, as long as it is done in a mature and thoughtful way) because there is actually a thesis provided, supported by evidence from the source along with personal opinions.
Okay, I'm monologuing and taking advantage of the vanished character limit (in a desperate attempt for positive or negative feedback [which I'm not scared to admit, a quality I was discussing in my monologue {see what I did there!?} ] ). But seriously, I like the adult and serious nature of George's videos, and think they are a model for other vloggers out there who review things in general.
** Wait, what did I think of the video? Well, I don't play Metal Gear Games (not because I don't like them, but because I just haven't developed an interest in the series). So I'm not qualified to leave an opinion. (Then why did I leave a comment? To receive negative feedback, because I secretly enjoy being called... well whatever you can come up with.**
YAY i love your MGS videos
It sounds like you almost want all the MGS games to have the same tone and not go out of its comfort zone. The themes they are pushing in GZ keep the story fresh and exciting.
Si alguien en el mundo verdaderamente entiende Metal Gear, es éste hombre.
So you're saying that you're unhappy with this new direction because it isn't as campy as prior games? Sorry, but just because this game is taking a much more serious direction doesn't mean it will suffer.
I agree with your point about not getting the full story unless you find the collectables being counter-productive, though.
Why even mention iDroid being too advanced for the time period? You know about MGS, meaning you should know it's a sci-fi series grounded in real world military tech.
I loved your other MGS analysis videos, but it seems you got a bit too butthurt that MGS5 is taking a serious tone.
Sorry, but saying Ground Zeros should have been a new IP because Peace Walker had a few silly Extra Ops, which weren't related to the story WHATSOEVER is stupid. Peace Walker had a pretty serious story, it was not a game geared towards a younger audience, by far. If you WERE a true MGS fan, you'd have fully appreciated the references to Peace Walker right away, and loved the harsh, much darker story Kojima has created.
I personally love all the changes to the game, including the new voice actor, Kiefer Sutherland as Boss.
It's weird how you, along with others in these comments, think I'm not a "true MGS fan." I'm guessing you haven't taken a long look at this channel's most popular videos?
No, I haven't, because after seeing how ridiculous some of the things you were saying in the first video I watched on the channel, I wasn't interested in the other videos. You may be a fan, but a lot of the points you made about Ground Zeroes weren't fair, or didn't make sense. You can't say Peace Walker isn't a serious game because of a few silly bonus missions, they have nothing to do with the main story. MGS has always had a serious story, with an added supernatural element, when it came to the characters, mainly the bosses. It's never been a silly game though. Was it silly when Old Snake was crawling through a tunnel of microwaves, basically cooking himself? Or when Naked Snake killed his mentor? Or how about when Naked Snake was being tortured? Did you think those were un-serious scenes that deserved a laugh?
That's not what I said. Don't twist my words. He may be a fan, but he's wrong about the games not having a serious tone. The story has always been serious, it's not a Disney game ffs.
+Joe Warnock yeah, you haven't. Then go and check them out, you will see how stupid you look when you write your complaints
+Joe Warnock Yup, MGS1 kept a solid serious tone even as you had to stare a soldier's asses in an attempt to find Meryl...
Huh? Strange at my workplace when a government inspection rolls around we are always told to destroy the documents. Doesn't that happen in the average workplace?
That moment when you come back from TPP, and you understand why Chico has a headphone jack in his chest.
Why did he have it
harris aziz It has to do with the devil's house mission
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but I do recall having Paz betray us being a part of the ending I got when I played PW, but I sure as hell didn't do all of the side ops and stuff.
Iamsofakingraw You're intended to do most (though not all) of the side ops, and thus unlock/beat the sixth Zadornov search mission, then find Zadornov in your base. Although, each successive Zadornov mission also appears if you just keep replaying older missions, so that contributes to the fact that you don't need to play literally every side ops mission.
"And I love it for it" is the only thing I would add to this video in the end.
I agree with everthing. But it's this -contrast- that made me love the series in the first place. Are they going too far? Probably. I still love it.
I really hope you plan to do a video in the phantom pain, your critical close ups are what got me into MGS to begin with.
4:05 Nuclear, not nukular.
I always love watching his old reviews and him saying "comparishun."
Thanks, George Bush.
correction - Big boss has never used child soldiers - Chico and and Paz were allowed to stay on Mother Base for their own safety, neither were deployed in the field, and Miller, who pretty much runs Mother base stated numerous time in TPP that child soldiers need to be rehabilitated and to put aside their old lives
I really hope Kojima makes The Phatom Pain good and fixes GZ story issues. I really don't want to see a good series lose its way. I do hope The Phantom Pain is the last. The series needs to be put to rest.
Chico wasn't able to walk in the helicopter, use your eyes, he's crawling.
I liked most of the remarks individually but I don't see them correct or even fair as a whole. I think the author is pretty undecisive about his stance and has either forgetten the whole mgs background or his perspective have unintendedly limit his judgements. Anyway, good video. Well done. Brings up a lot to discuss.
Looking back MGSV tackling dark and adult themes after PW is like thinking Kratos can be a likeable character after GoWIII.