***Prototype Test*** Limitless Supercaps
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Testing out some new prototype supercaps from Limitless Lithium. I wire a single bank up to power a big Sundown Audio scv-7500d amplifier on the amp dyno then test to see how much power we can pull from it all.
#sundownaudio
#techtimethursday
#sundownaudiounofficial
![Why a 48V System is Better than a 12V? [Vatrer Power]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8ukQ9wQfMIY/mqdefault.jpg)
Bro. You have shown us and taught us so much, by doing these videos. We appreciate you and your time and effort.
read my comment above you, there is a huge thing he missed
Big D Wiz meets Discovery channel script without the commercials. Great content.
I like how you didn't edit out the fact that you forgot your remote wire on the first run and then kind of picked on yourself on the third run about it! It shows your honesty and admission to actually being human!
Am I mistaken or did the 2.7 prototypes help put out the most wattage?
Definitely not bad for being new!! Keep up the awesome work man! Thank you!!
Please please PLEASE! Make one testing some 18650 size cells. I heard those are the most optimal energy for size to weight ratio (density)
At 588 amps of current, consider this from the electrical code, that would be about a 500mcm/kcmil cable for positive and negative. I am curious about the ampacity of the capacitors' bridging bars.
What I'm wondering is if the limiting factor in the system is the conductors sizes and joints from one supercap to the other.
If so, the resistance between or within each supercap is easy to fix by running identical banks of them in parallel.
I don't expect you to run a system on only supercaps.
What I am getting at is capacitors operate at their best when they have an exceedingly low ESR (equivalent series resistance) and some ways to reduce it are:
parallel banks of capacitors
silver solder to the bus bars, as silver is the most conductive metal, even more than gold or copper
truly massive parallel conductors leading to the amp from the capacitors, and to the capacitors from the battery/charging system.
With these things in mind, you can ever-more-closely-approach your static, unloaded voltage. with limited dips below it.
Of course, your alternator/generator setup has to be able to produce the maximum level of power your system can put out. (not peak of sine wave, but RMS.)
Power bottlenecks are the connection to the alternator/generator, any and all joints to the power cables
and that most-overlooked one: the ground cable attachment to the battery bank/power system.
no matter how big your cable is for the negative/ground, the bottleneck of your ground is a curtain of steel that is the length of circumference around your ground lug where it attaches to the car multiplied by the thickness of the sheet metal at that point.
12 gauge steel is about 2.77mm thick. For a ground lug 6 inches long and an inch wide, it would have a 14 inch/355.6mm length.
Multiply that by the 2.77mm thickness, and you have the amount of steel through which ALL the current has to pass.
That is 960.12 square millimeters, or the cross-section of four 500kcmil cables. BUT the steel does not conduct as well.
Since that 960.12 square millimeters is through steel which conducts electricty at about 1/43rd the rate of copper, the equivalent copper wire to ground your system would be approximately the same as four gauge wire. That is number 4 AWG, not 4/0.
That is puny for 588 amps, when a 4 gauge wire can carry about 125 amps.
Most peopled don't pay enough attention to the bottleneck of the ground connection to the car's chassis. They think that big, fat cable on that big, fat lug has little resistance. Technically, it does, but the circumference of the car's sheet metal around it and the attachment to the battery are its limiting factors.
Also, if you have a set of lugs side-by-side, then the resistance of them becomes a product of the line that can exactly enclose all sides AROUND that bunch of lugs times the sheet metal thickness. It is NOT the added-up circumference of all the lugs if they are grouped tightly together. Ground lug groups have as their highest-resistance bottleneck the imaginary line that can surround the perimeter of all the nearby lugs. If the Ground Lug Farm is in an area you can just wrap a 14" line around, then you get the same resistance as I put up further: a 4 gauge copper wire.
Formula for minimizing bottlenecks in your electrical system:
A) find your copper cable total ampacity. look up the cable that fits that in the electrical tables. Convert it to square millimeters. Having done that, multiply that number by 43 to find the equivalent conductivity of copper. Then size your perimeter around your grounding lug farm to suit it, armed with the thickness of your sheet metal in millimeters.
Oh, but there's more. At some point between the amp in the rear of the car and the voltage source at the front of the car, there is a minimum circumference of metal going around the entire car perpendicular to the direction of travel of the current flow. At that point is the minimum body-limited cross section of steel, though it should be rather generous.
Now, the BATTERY end. Again, measure the thinnest, smallest cross-section area of the power production center's parts. Don't get hypnotized by how beefy your lugs and cable are. What goes on ON the sheet metal means nothing compared to what goes on THROUGH the sheet metal.
Most people just do not recognize the true enemy of electrical power conduction.
I like this response. Especially the math. Thank u
I bought a set of busbars from Jim Machineworks, and they shipped the next day. Just thought I'd mention. Thx
Best test yet
Limitless looking good
This is a great test and thanks for performing it.
I'm wondering though... what would be the result with say.. a 390A alt (on roughly that same amount of power) in the equation. Im wondering would voltage stay stable. And.. can you run supercaps and a lithium bank together?
you can run them togheter. you just need to make sure the lithium bank is rated to the same volt so you dont accidentaly buy a 18v lithum bank and connect it to a 16v super cap bank.
Awesome video in detail for cap banks,alot of people dont understand the difference between resistive testing with the amp dyno and real world actual results. You yourself, Steve Meade,and Big d wiz have said it many times that resistive testing is hard on amps,batteries,cap banks,etc.So in your car you should get a little better results if everything is hooked up properly given you have enough battery power,altenator power,the right gauge wire for grounds and power.
Why does everyone go to xs power or limitless.. What about maxwell supercaps are they any good?
China is floooding the market with fake maxwell caps but there is ways to tell if there real but I have seen the knock off ones do just as good.
All in all maxwell caps are just as good
Maxwell is an actual real world manufacturer and has been around a long time. XS Power, while nice, just rewraps or repackages other people's shit, or sends desired specs to manufacture house to make it for them. Their cap banks that are mounted inside plastic battery size cases may actually be assembled and sealed by XS Power. Maybe.
Impressive. That Being A Static Load Means The Performance In Car With Reactive Load Will Be Even Greater Maintaining Voltage. I Cant Believe That Amp Isn't Taking Damage Putting Out That Much Power At Such Low Voltage. That's Dangerous For Most Amplifiers. It's Funny How He Don't Care For Balancing Capacitors hahah For Me It's 100% Nessisary But It's Probably Because I'm Running Used Caps. Each Cell Gets Out Of Balance Every 3 Cycles. I Got 32 Balancing Boards. I'm Able To Charge My 8 Banks Of 6 @ 32Amps Without Overcharging Them.
Few of those cap banks get you right where you need to be for your SPL rig is what I think. If we lived in a perfect world, every system would have strong and reliable caps for on-demand power and batteries but we don't live in a perfect world.
What u mean? Can u explain
Wind have been nice to see the charge time in real time as that determines go often you can run your system.
Why won't the capacitors balance themselves when fully charging and discharging?
I'm in the process of making a 500 farad cap battery with six 6 pack cells each set of six are on an automatic leveling/charger board and are wired in series on each board and each board in parallel
I think they do need a few more cycles in order to condition the caps some before u get an accurate number
When new, supercapacitors have high resistance that robs capacity and current capability. You do not really need to cycle them; just feed them a continuous voltage, slowly increasing the current and let them stay for hours. Cycling makes faster results though.
Beginning to end! Informative, Thanks
I'M SURPRISED YOU DIDN'T START A FIRE. Those caps, like you said, are rated up to 2.7V. Last time I checked 2.7X5=13.5V MAX. You're overcharging the bank by .75V. Only reason you didn't start a fire is its only .15V/cell over. No fire, but you're destroying them faster than normal and why your readings are inconsistent. you need to use 6 caps or the slightly higher version of the supercaps, or only charge the bank to 13.5V for accurate testing.
Yeah a 5 cap bank is retarded
Yeah, This was hella dangerous to do with supercaps. No overcharge protection per cell and no balancer to equalize voltage across series cells. Dangerous AF.
Why does the voltage drop so low even when the charger is on?
Love the videos, great content as always, Sundown for the win.
Just ordered 2 6 cap banks of the limitless. Ces 370 on the way as well. Just need terminals and I'll be set. This video pushed me to the limitless.
What size bolts do they use?
How do you like them so far?
@@dank01man 19mm
I'm watching you before SoundMan
So is there any way to charge this with the alternator of the car?i mean have this as a daily cap for the amps in the car
Super dope Derek I've never used super caps might try on my daily driver thx for the cool video.
Lol there just ying long repackaged 40ah cells which is cool but they work well and are safe! Love the videos dude
loving the vids dude
Great videos! keep up the good work!
I love the videos!!! Keep them coming!!
Great video keep them coming
Can you run these with the retro series batteries?
How are these xs cap banks vs the ioxus uc-31?
What I don't get is if your bench equipment is not connected in any way how does the bench turn the amp on without ground? RCA shields? 🤔
I'm installing a capacitor bank in the trunk for my audio system. I already installed a cut off switch. Do I need any other fuses besides the one next to the battery?
Wouldn't the amp dyno use the voltage meter section to factor the correct wattage?
Hopefully they dont determine the price after this video lol. Killer products, thank you Derek for taking the time to make this.
Limitless posted a price this morning of $299 for a 6-cell bank.
Sundown Audio unofficial very nice, very affordable. Again thank you for taking the time to do this.
You should do a comparison test on a cheap battery with and without caps, just to show how they help with the discharge rate. I’m curious to see the numbers on the dyno
For the price for a daily driver with a smaller system which, in your opinion, would be the better investment cap banks or decent AGM? Like my daily has a stock 80a alt with a Northstar 70ah under the hood on a Kicker KXA 1200.1 @ 1 ohm and a 75x4 mids/highs amp. I drop down to like upper 11's usually in the 12's. Would a bank help with getting it up and keeping it up or would another AGM be the answer?
Skeleton Technologies SCD3800 was the mystery bank from the last video, lol.
Thanks Derek for the videos!!!
Can I charge these caps with a agm battery charger
That dam little wire! Thank for grate videos wish sundown had more subs for sealed boxes and sq what you recommend?
What about with a hi -output alt/s setup how will these perform ??????
Have you used any batcaps before? If so what did or do you think of them?
Hey, if caps are not connected to anything why are you connecting stb amp wire to your battery clamps and it turns on? :) So there is some connection.
Nice test. A quick suggestion though. It would be a lot more informative if you guys would pick up a cheap 4 channel USB oscilloscope and an amp clamp for it so you can see amp draw and voltage over time and be fast enough to catch the inrush current as well. You could see things that the clamp you’re using is far to slow to show. A cheap $100 Hantek scope would be more than enough for this task.
forgive me as this might be a stupid question, but still learning... so, why are you only using a bank of 5 rather than six? any input from anyone would be greatly appreciated!
That does good pretty good caps can u run those caps with agm battery in same bank
terry farmer lolol
Can you
If you "got"this video this is great info!
Thanks to all those involved!👍
So 600fd is worth around 6k.
I need to watch the amp dyno test to find that amps efficiency to further dial that number in...
I've watched sparked innovations on RUclips and from what he says for every 50 farads it can handle 1k watts watch his channel he explains alot on car audio smart dude
I would go with XS Power, just because they have been around for years and I'm pretty sure they have all the bugs worked out. Buying something brand new CAN BE risky, cause something COULD fail and damage things.
It also could do amazing things. Just imagine what readings would be like if nobody tried out d'amour engineering with the smd logo. Just imagine if nobody showed up to the council of nicia. Christianity wouldn't be the way it is today. What would the space race be if the government never invested in a little group called nasa. It's that kind of thinking that's killing small business.
@@jonanderson4474 Oh, and Limitless may be a small company now, but I can see it growing into something much bigger. Look around, everyone has a Limitless Bat., even me asshole.
I think the performance is so close that price is going to be the determining factor in rather or not people use these vs. other brands. I use caps with batteries and when I installed my banks of maxwell boostcaps it was the best upgrade I have ever made to my electrical so far. they really helped out.
The Limitless Super caps will retail for $299 Per bank of 6 . Singles will also be available for sale .
@@mattleisch4147 thats a very good deal. I definitely will be purchasing a bank of 6. $300 for 6 brand new caps, thats hard to beat.
Josh Hanson hey bro. What is your setup? I’m thinking of running a bank or 2 with my lithium. Just curious as to how mischievous it helped out. Thanks.
@@jamesbondcaraudio4247 it was the single most noticeable improvement I made to my electrical. I would definitely recommend it. I use 2 banks of 6, but I'm going to buy more. I use maxwell boostcaps as well. 2.7v 3000f. when the bass hits a long low note the caps kick in an keep your voltage from dropping. they help me more than anything. some people like batteries but I like to use both.
Josh Hanson right on thanks. I appreciate your response.
How long should a cap bank last in a vehicle?
Bro is it possible to leave charger on for a minute? I just want to see if the charger can hold the voltage long enough because I had my amp consist of 2 subwoofer. powered by power supply which is said to be 100A but can't hold the deeb bass. The voltage goes down to 8v when the base drops and my gain is only a half. And I turn it to 40 to 60hz. I want to buy supercaps instead of caraudio capacitor which should I buy? Thanks...
How many caps to make 14v bank and can you run with lithium yinlong cells
Just curious as to why your not using all the inputs on the amp? If the amp has triple inputs would it draw more current with all three sets of inputs wired up?
3 wires was too bulky on the cap studs and didn't fit well. Two wires was plenty to carry that amount of current anyways.
@@UnofficialAudio Thanks for responding and clarifying
I know this is off topic but what is the difference in using the baffles you had holding up your truck instead of just building a 6 inch or 8 in thick wall?
Is it to direct air forcing it to the back better. I seen these baffles on other builds and wanted to know the reason for it. Is it strictly spl or can it be musical also?
Thanks and keep up the great videos
I'm sorry, what baffles are you referring to ??
Baffles are the boards the sub mounts to on a wall or box , but he said a stacked tube insert type set up is what he's going t use it's easier to change your layout that way with tubes
So please explain or elaborate on ur question please ??
Just remember that you are not supposed to run your amp on caps alone, but, we're on the way to that!
So to keep voltage, the scv 7500 needs 4-5 banks of caps per amp?
Very broad rule of thumb is one bank of caps per 1500w on music and one bank of caps per 3000w burp. If you were to do a fast roll in for a burp you could get away with 2-3 banks for a good 1-2 second solid burp.
You do not want to top out the cap voltage to preserve their life, about ~70% after 10 or so years.
Derek , have you seen any cmax in action?
Yes I'd be interested
Crazy big power from a small footprint and light weight.
Are super caps only for burp SPL systems or is there a music justification for them as well?
9Nails if you have a ton of them they are good for spl by themselves. But they are also good for music too. I have 3 banks of 5 maxwell 2.7 volt 3000 fared caps in my truck with 2 North Star 480 agm batteries. They help the alternator cope with peaks of voltage and also make sure you have a much steadier voltage during musical bass beats. It really hits hard and less muddy.
@@Widowmaker2828 why 5 not 6 caps
@@jameshouston3952 At the time the 13.5 volts was enough for what I was looking for. Now that I have 270 AH of Yinlong LTO with my Taramps amps that take 16-17 volts I really don't need the caps at all. But I may buy 4 more Maxwell caps if I can find them and run the full 16.2 volts with my Big Boy voltage regulator. (I had since upgraded to 4 banks of 5)
just got a limitless 25AH lifepo4(with the copper tops :D) , it's not here yet but i'm so stokeeeeed
They look a lot like yin long lithium titanate cells.
I'm confused. How are you powering the turn on lead from a different power source? It looks to me that you are connecting it to the bench power, how does that work if the 2 power setups don't have a shared negative?
csorrows I’ve personally did that in the past.... don’t ask me how it works because from what I was always taught it won’t bug it does somehow
The only way I can see it is that the head unit has ground through the RCA’s and is grounded to that separate power source.
Does anyone know what size bolts they use?
How do they last on that change 5x2.7=13.5 so 14.4 is over change 2.8 each cell
I explain about the 10% overcharge in the video as well as why I ran these tests at the typically daily voltage of 14.4v
2.7v Caps in vehicles should be run in 6s. The smaller units (350f) should be added to every vehicle. They drastically increase battery life as starters put massive loads on a battery. Additionally, when a cell does go bad in battery, the caps will still start the car. They'll start a car down to 9v.
So I plan on running two HC2400 Batteries with four banks of five caps/bank on All sundown amps (two 3500.1's, a 100.4 and a 200.4 v1) with a missing link audio voltage step-up converter at 15.1v..... is that enough for a daily setup???
One bank of ultra capacitors is fine -- they can deliver 10,000 amps. These are capacitors though, not batteries. What comes out must go back in. They are for stiffening sharp draws, they're not a replacement for a power source. What took a few seconds to discharge, took a few minutes to charge.
@@mhamma6560 so would I need two more HC2400 batteries ( four batteries over just two) with the 4 banks of ultra caps?
when it comes to XSPower i got asked a question about " hey whats the RC mean ? " , does RC mean charge amps to the battery from the alt? having issues finding a answer for this one. im on auto assume this means running charge to battery @ 120 A..... but then that would make no since cause my alt one my D4700 is being held in at 220+ A irragi alt to a 2k RMS amp daily a-b car with big 3 with a 250A fuse. prob not the best set up lol so im asking the question iv'e been asked who knows what RC means?
I need/want that sundown banner how can I get one
The Prototyp looks like unlabel Maxwell Capacitors.
That is unlable Capacitors.
Just bought a bank of 6 Maxwell's then a few days later Tesla buys the company....lol. so yes , I would be interested 👍
my maxes are otw lol sssssshhhhhhh.... check out my vids!!!!!
Kill Shot King are the maxwells lto or super caps?
What happened to,all the videos? We need new ones
The higher voltage, or over volting caps will shorten their life! I try under volting, and add anitger car in series, but that cost $$$, especially when that divides the farads again!
Those yinglongs are the sheet!
And my question is do these super caps mix well with AGM batteries and how many banks would I need if I'm running a cresendo audio bc 6k
a kirk great question that’s what I want to know
Caps and AGM go really well together. For a crescendo 6k for music I'd run about 4 banks
I run 4 xspower d3100 and 3 banks of maxwell boost caps on 2 scv.4000d and it works very well
If you watch sparked innovations on RUclips he states for every 50 farad it can handle 1k watts hes a smart guy and explains alot on car audio go check em out oh and yes they work awesome with agm and lithium I have a set myself I have them right after the amp then have my rear battery connected to cells then the wire to front battery were its connected to positive of battery
So can I run my AGM BATTERIES BANK AND ADD SOME SUPERCAPS TO IT ??
That’s what I’m thinking about doing
@@UrAvgBasshead I heard that if u mix the AGM and SUPERCAPS it was a power full combination
Austin Kirk nice. I have 4 agms. I’m going to look at some different brands of caps to add
Rebadged Maxwells i see 🧐
Maxwell rated at 3.0 volts.
Why is a 7,500 watt RMS amp putting out such low numbers at 1 OHM?
Um... 10v. Lol.
Yeah, if you watch the volt meter, you can see the voltage go as low as 9 volts. In order for a setup like this to really work, you'd need 3-4 banks per amp. Only then would your voltage stay up where it needs to be.
As everyone has already mentioned its cause the amplifier's input voltage was dropping super low. At even 12v this amp will make more than rated power.
I don't think each power and ground hook up on amp go to separate power supply's they are all hooked together in amp the extra hookups are for more runs to batteries therefore more amperage creating more power
Derrick if I'm wrong correct me bro ,, lol
A lapel mic would be most helpful.
Use a switch on that remote. $5 give you the oppertunity to flip a switch lol
Id take the limitless all day hope they arent priced to high
Limitless posted this morning they will be $299 for a 6-cell bank
I thought that was a 7500 watt amp
audio tests aside you have a damn carbon fiber test bench ???
It's carbon fiber laid over wood but yes its a carbon fiber test bench and it is REAL carbon fiber
@@UnofficialAudio thats baller i love it
No way. That's crazy. But awesome
so im alittle confused if the caps are in their own isolated loop. how is remote able to be triggered from another power source. how is it completing the circuit? ground threw the rca?
It has a flux capacitor, cheif
Magic
Am I the only one disappointed a rated 7500 rms @ 1ohm amp maxed at 6800-ish ?
Only because the voltage dropped down to 9 volts. No amp makes rated power at 9 volts. Someone else commented that you would need about 4 of these banks on 1 amplifier in order to keep your voltage up. That sounds kind of expensive.
dude it was a slow roll in on ONE bank of caps lol. This is nowhere near enough power supply for that amp to make full power. You need power to make power. He was just comparing the cap banks to see which one could make the most power from the amp.
As everyone has already mentioned its cause the amplifier's input voltage was dropping super low. At even 12v this amp will make more than rated power.
Yeah damn lol rewatched, thought there was batteries behind the caps my bad.
These caps should be run in 6 series, not 5. Risk of overcharge for one is too great. These have been used in 12v vehicles for quite some time and 6 is safe, 5 is playing with fire. Get maxwells and be done with it.
I do what I want!
30 mins fuck ya
CUT THE CHARGER ON? LET THE WINDOW DOWN? CUT THE LIGHTS OFF? MAN SOME PEOPLE DO NOT MAKE ANY SINCE. IT IS Phrased like so: "TURN THE CHARGER ON! OPEN THE WINDOW! TURN THE LIGHTS OFF! JEEZ. HOW MOOCH EDUMAKATIONS DUS ONE NEID?
Pissy much? haha
amazin, F the rest limitless is the best, about to order a bank asap
derrek sometimes you way over explain things
Even though he does people still get confused lol.....wHy DoEsN't It MaKe 7500w tHoUgH? lmao
@@SigmaBallistics because the voltage goes down to about 8.5-9v. 5+v under the 14.4 the amplifier is rated at.
I have to keep a balance between the verbal explanations and action footage. Some followers are more "watchers" and want to visually see the action. Others are more "listeners" and listen to these videos like a podcast while working or driving. If I don't do the in depth explanations I'll get complaints about that too. Understand its tough trying to keep everyone happy.
Dibeezy ThaGifted i was mocking the people that were saying that lol.......pretty obvious if you have any sort of basic understanding of car audio lol
@@SigmaBallistics oh ok my bad lol
anyone notice the amps missing the 3rd set of power and ground
This video doesn't show or test the purpose nor ability of capacitors.
Haha lolwut?!?
The amp was connected to nothing but the 5 capacitors. No batteries. No power supplies. 7000Watt plus amp powered by caps only. A LOT of energy is stored in 5 series Ultra caps: 850 Farads. Incredible that cap technology has come far enough to be used for engine starting in diesel semi trucks. Capacitors have a super low ESR and charge/discharge mad fast, this is how they maintain voltage in a big system when the batteries start dipping - even with multiple alts. Maintain voltage = maximize power. Along with only caps being used to power a huge amp, having a higher voltage was the other lesson (only by using the 2.85V version)
t
Dangerously low voltage..most amps would have smoked at such low voltage
You talk too much man you talk too much dude get on with this
More over price shit from Limitless... Great
Sigh. Rundown sucks anyway. I do not even know why I waste my time watching this video.
Apparently you like being a hater
Get to the point . omg
Wat size lugs are you using??