The value of expensive headers isn't really in a power difference, it's in the quality of materials an the fact that they may last 30 years, while these ebay headers will rust through in 5 years. Also the big name headers are gonna look ways better and often come coated
@@Prestiged_peck / look man I’m all for buying American but these companies need to understand that they are cutting their own throats with their prices. In the header and intake manifold markets this is most pronounced. Things aren’t the way they were 15-20 years ago when these chi-com copies started showing up on eBay, and you had a 50-50 chance of them actually fitting or not. In a lot of cases the copies are just about as good. A set of stainless lt headers with Y pipe for a 3rd gen Camaro is about $200 while the nearest American variant is over a $1000. And yes the fit is going to be better on the US set but people will deal with a few headaches with that big a price difference. I know companies have to recoup R&d costs, pay employees etc... but they need to be competitive or these Chinese companies “employing” 10 year olds are eventually going to either shut them out or force them offshore. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t offer a $1500 set of headers but come out with a $2-300 budget set and give the people buying the copies another option.
@@limabravo6065 they really should, like for me if imma pay $1500 for a set I'll build myself some, motion makes a good flange for like $20 a side, get some elbows and J's and start tiggin
Matt Gruizinga it also massively educated the customer base which makes companies change their tactics and actually give us better product and results. Weeds out the trash products and gives us a better market.
I had an idea the power levels were not gonna be much different vs eBay headers and name brand but my personal experience is the name brand exhaust last longer and hardly ever have fitment issues. The fitment issues on cheap headers can be a nightmare so that alone makes me pay the extra money to get the more expensive ones. Great video
We install headers almost daily & we also have a dyno jet. You are correct on the power output is equal. When a customer comes in with ebay headers we charge a extra 2 hours on the install ($220) because THEY NEVER FIT!!! We have to reem out flange holes on ebay headers all the time. God forbid a customer brings in a long tube + y-pipe ebay combo because the y pipe always needs a ton of persuasion to align which more often than not requires cutting and welding. Moral of this story, what you save on buy ebay headers is spent on installation so it winds up costing the same. I say buy name brand because in that case you get customer service from the manufacture and a real warranty not a Wuhan Warranty!
I was just going to say this about fitment and buying cheap headers. This why I went with kooks 1-7/8" on my 08 Vette. I want it all to fit right and I don't want them to hang low like all the cheap ones do
I just installed DNA long tube headers, mid pipe with y pipe assembly on my 2009 RAM...overall pretty impressive and their customer service even in China has responded to all my requests and or issues....I would 100% recommend the DNA long tube headers...and oh yah they are pretty loud and mean sounding with my Flowmaster super 10 ....👍
Yep, I've ran the inexpensive headers on my vehicles for years. MUCH appreciate your sharing and work on this video, backs up what I've always said and felt, and I certainly will use this to share! When you look at the price difference, troubles or longetivity isnt much a problem to me, when I can buy multiple inexpensive sets vs just the one
eBay hard parts have gotten a hell of a lot better and now everyone realizes they've been getting ripped off for parts that have no moving parts you should do a video on intercoolers talk about getting ripped off
Already got ebay longtubes for my Coyote, they work great.. less then $200.00 for them only issue i had was one 02 sensor bung was welded a little off center from the hole so a little grinding was needed to get the sensor to thread in, but im not complaining, I saved alot of money.
Very cool to see the differences from each type of header. Id like to see it one step further with other bolt on mods. Such as cai, tb, and aftermarket intakes. Nice work regardless!
I had to get an ebay header for my old car, 93 sidekick. The old stock manifold was cracked. It did run a lot better, mostly from not having the crack. But for IIRC $80 and $120 for a shop to install them, compared to $400 for a set of replacement manifolds. It was a great Improvement.
Great video! Yesterday i was looking for a test like this, im about to put some headers on a BBC in my truck, perfect timing. You also cleared up the misinformation ive read about where power gains are at in rpm range with shorty's vs long tubes. Thanks again! Edit to add...i agree with others, this testing does help us all a lot. Its hard to sift through all the conflicting info on the internet. Its great to see an actual test.
The biggest thing I learned is anything naturally aspirated under 550HP doesn't need dual 3" exhaust. The 2.5" didn't trade anything up top and gained torque down low over the 3".
Good point. I also noticed that all of the testing takes place above 3500 rpm. So for a street car not in the rpm nosebleed section, you may be able to do pretty well with just a good set of manifolds.
My DNA headers had straight, thick flanges and fit great with no leaks but upgraded the gaskets just to make sure. $200 for good looking headers. I am happy with them for sure.
This is a good test but one thing you have to factor in is header primary tube and collector flow on each set of headers. We have found through dyno testing and flowbench testing that header flow will have a dramatic effect on hp output. Two different flowing shorty headers will not produce the Same power output. Same as the long tubes. There's so much science involved when searching for more hp.
I'd like to see what YOU choose to go cheap on and what YOU refuse to, I enjoy watching your channel it's extremely informative and a little different than all the billion other channels. Needless to say I'll watch your channel for a new video before others. Hope your head heals up n good luck
I love data.Thanks Richard.What surprised me was the fact that even though it's just headers there really wasn't as much of a gain over factory manifolds.
Yo RICH your videos are RICH. LOADS OF INFORMATION FOR THE LAYMAN AND THE PROFESSIONAL. YOU ARE THE BEST. Frieburger and crew take heed. By the way. I purchased the cheap Ebay headers for my 6.0 Ls build Just as test and engine break in. The fit was poor and broke a couple of spark plugs upon installation. In my opinion the more expensive headers are the way to go if your going to keep them for every day use or racing.
Having run many inexpensive headers ($89 i think was the cheapest and they burned #3 wire off every other month) i was thinking of the fit and customer service through most of this video. Great job hitting all the points!
If DNA isn't supplying you with the stuff you need for these videos, they need to because you probably just sold over 100 long tubes from them. Count me as 2.
I put the same DNA headers on my 15 SS camaro I like them they are nice for the price but if I had the $1200 for Kooks I would've bought them. Great vid
I like that you do apples to apples stuff.... 5 decades of hearing how this manifold for intake or exhaust will add "25% HP gain! I love to see the actual practical numbers. Also... I put the camaro cast manifolds on my 5.3 in an LS conversion and they added about the same power.
What year of Camaro and what did you swap the engine into? I'm going to swap a 5.3 in a 92 Sonoma with 4WD. I still have the stock manifolds, but I am just wanting to plan ahead and see what other people have gone with.
Thanks for this one. I've been battling back and forth with folks about brand name headers and cheap copies of them. Forget spending thousands of dollars for brand name headers.
James Williams you think the companies making knock offs are testing? lol someone has to design through r&d these products but you take the risk if your eBay part is a knock off of something that works or something that’s good enough.
@@hopsyn Nope. I don't think they are testing. But in my case, I have OBX copies of Kooks headers for a G8. They've been dyno tested before in the past and they were within 1-5 hp of Kooks. For less than half the price. So, I'm happy... Lol
James Williams Ppl who buy the expensive brand got the money for it so they can careless searching for cheaper. Also the more expensive brands like kooks comes with better quality v band clamps and provide 02 extenders
Fit, finish, flange thickness, and overall quality matter just as much as the power numbers. Changing header flange and collector gaskets that leak all the time sucks. Same with headers that fit poorly or rot out after a year or two. Great test Richard! Best of luck in 2020, if you take a tumble on New Years eve, don't catch yourself with your face 😁
@@cobaltsslsj5891 No, they are made with inferior metals, not machined to high tolerances so expect warping, rusting and leaks earlier than a quality set. They make roughly the same power, so if your project is only expected to live 2-3 years it's a great header. If you want to keep your vehicle for many years, buy the quality ones that will last.
@@The_Fat_Turtle when i can buy 3 sets compared to high $$$$$$$ ones it's a win win . the quality of ebay is great , i bought a set for my Cobalt SS and it was just as good as the ZZP in every way but $400 cheaper - putting a set on my LS swapped S10 and they are great
I’ve looked at EBay headers. I liked the fact that they were stainless, but read the reviews about figment, and durability. They weren’t too convincing. I ended up getting a good set of Schoenfeld circle track headers, cause I wanted low to mid range torque. I had to remove my AC box to get them in, but once I did, the headers fell right into place. For a street rod that I only drive in goo weather, it was worth it. I gained ground clearance. My original mass produced headers didn’t give me that. I don’t have to lift the engine to remove or install them, and they actually gave me a pretty noticeable kick in the butt, when I drove it.
I bought some headers for 300$ seen the unbranded same design! For 109$.. on eBay just doesn't have the sexy name plate on it like mine.. I've been needing this video basically so I can sleep better.
9090ruby Engine Masters already covered denting headers to clear objects doesn’t affect power much. They beat the hell out of a couple Hookers with hammers to prove it.
@@9090ruby pretty clear you have never built anything before. Nothing ever fits as advertised. If your even lucky enough to get the right parts on the first try.
Thanks for the rundown on the results! Def great info to know! Based on that data, as long as the fitment of the inexpensive headers is acceptable, then I wouldn't have any issue with using them. From a cost perspective, they're pretty much disposable.. but nobody want to replace stuff "just because". So, it would be interesting to hear from others about their longer-term experience with the lesser priced parts with regard to rusting, reliability of the welds (life without leaks), as well as discoloration. Ceramic? Blankets? Bare? I imagine that Richard would excel in an American Sign Language course! Thanks again!
This video was very helpful, i had a set of cheap eBay headers on my 95 vw golf, where almost all of the parts came from fleabay.... on my new chrysler 300c ill most likely go with a set of more expensive long tubes, especially since it's going to get a cam and tuner! Thanks for taking the time to make these videos!
hmm frustrating for the Brand headers.. but I am happy with the results ..because i just changed from super Cheap DNA Shortys 67$ a pair, to BBK Long tubes..next week I will know how much better they work.. but I m shure they do... nice Test !!!
Great comparison that was well articulated and unbiased.There 2 other things to consider. Flange thickness which can affect sealing and pipe thickness which affects underhood head and noise.
Another great video from Richard, I would go with the name brand Richard didn't mention it but quality thickness of the tubing ect makes a difference of longevity
Great video!!! I have 17 Roush Stage LC3 makes 800+HP and big name headers suck as Kooks, SW and corsa are 1,300+ and a company 2M Fabercation make a set of long-tubes for 15+ Mustang GTs that are 304- stainless and fit great for 480 bucks
I put a set of Hooker Super Comps on my mild 350 in my '76 Camaro. I only used them because I found a set for $50. But I have to say they are the best fitting SBC headers I've ever owned. I only had to clearance one tube to clear a spark plug. Everything else was great. They might not be optimal but the good fit was worth the trade off.
Actually took my DNA headers out of the box today. I work with stainless steel for a living. These are definitely not 304. They are some extremely low grade stainless and you can get a magnet to stick fairly well on the tubes and i had no problem getting one to stick on the flanges. For $200 I'm not going to complain too much as long as they have a reasonable fit. One of the "mid pipe" tubes is ovaled pretty good and isn't going to work out of the box. I'm probably going to make my own with an x-pipe and true duals. The hardware and gaskets are going in the trash.
I was always told the big difference at least for ford headers was Flange thickness. Cheaper one can look identical but material and thickness of the flange are the big difference. Cheaper one's tend to warp over time and break studs and obviously cause exhaust leaks. Great video btw very useful information!
You teach information very well… easy to follow and understand… my question is… I’ve seen different design in shorties.. I have a set of hookers that are called GT 500 tuned shorties design for a 4.6/3v and they have actual collector as others don’t … I’ve also seen DNA from eBay with the same design… my question is is there any difference in design of shorties when ie comes to power… and not compare to long tube…
Can you explain the meaning of “tuned shorties” as compared to “non-tuned”.. and is that just advertising.. now I understand pulse exhaust timing which is why LT’s are the best but how does that improve the shorties…when the primary’s are not equal lengths…because I noticed an increase in power when I installed my shorties..
Anthony Thomas, you’re right, but the point I was making is that I and many people have had the belief that you have to get headers to make power and allow the engine breath, when in reality you need to upgrade your cam shaft for better results as far as high RPM power
I put Chinese headers on a f150, had a hard time on a couple ports getting bolts in because if the tube being so big and no room for the head of the bolts. Thanks for the video
It is one hell of an undertaking. Tuned headers are also a part of a tuned intake. Ever wondered why a Ferrari V12 screams? It's the intake tuning related to the headers. That's what Ferrari does better than just about anybody.
Another great video ! Thanks for taking the time to educate us !! I'll bet this same test on a 6.0 liter would be more exaggerated differences.. hmmmmmm
Kinda, but they hit one hell of a brick wall once you go above what they were designed for. But the lack of leaks, ease of installation etc. is very tempting.
I bought the ebay headers because the stock exhaust manifolds on my vortec engines shrink and break the bolts off in the heads. The ebay headers fit perfectly, thick flanges and they work great with no leaks.
American Racing for my 2012 Grand Sport Corvette. I have had Speed Engineering on a C7 and they seemed to do fine but didn't have the car long enough to see how they would last.
Love your video, would have liked a chart with all the numbers from the 3 engines and headers at the end. Cheap or steep? I have never had a name brand company help me out with a warranty or a customer service issue without fighting for days or even weeks. For me I’ll run the cheap headers and replace them every couple years. Not to mention it’s easier to stomach bashing them to fit.
What you should have mentioned is the benefits from long tube headers down low when you take off from the stop light. For a Heavy vehicle like a truck, there is where they really shine.
Great video! Thanks for the testing. For further improving these videos: putting a table with all the results in one shot after the testing would be really nice.
Nice results! My question would be the gains of the cheap turbo headers vs the high$$$ brands. 3”v band collector style. I’m curious to see the pros and cons of the inexpensive turbo headers. Keep up the awesome content!
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
USA header manufacturers roughed him up over this video but he still published it. RH the MVP.
@@dj4monie I think he's joking (look at Rich's face).
If you watch the N2O intercooling video. You will find out why he got messed up. But the comment is funny.
@@twisted2291 I will have to search for the video and check it out!
Username checks out 😂
lol im dead
All the brand name header manufacturers are going “dude shut the hell up”
Where does one find the corona headers? CHI-NUHH
The value of expensive headers isn't really in a power difference, it's in the quality of materials an the fact that they may last 30 years, while these ebay headers will rust through in 5 years. Also the big name headers are gonna look ways better and often come coated
Were you in a fight?
@@Prestiged_peck / look man I’m all for buying American but these companies need to understand that they are cutting their own throats with their prices. In the header and intake manifold markets this is most pronounced. Things aren’t the way they were 15-20 years ago when these chi-com copies started showing up on eBay, and you had a 50-50 chance of them actually fitting or not. In a lot of cases the copies are just about as good. A set of stainless lt headers with Y pipe for a 3rd gen Camaro is about $200 while the nearest American variant is over a $1000. And yes the fit is going to be better on the US set but people will deal with a few headaches with that big a price difference. I know companies have to recoup R&d costs, pay employees etc... but they need to be competitive or these Chinese companies “employing” 10 year olds are eventually going to either shut them out or force them offshore. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t offer a $1500 set of headers but come out with a $2-300 budget set and give the people buying the copies another option.
@@limabravo6065 they really should, like for me if imma pay $1500 for a set I'll build myself some, motion makes a good flange for like $20 a side, get some elbows and J's and start tiggin
Love it Richard, I know it's tedious, but this style of testing helps us all learn
Matt Gruizinga it also massively educated the customer base which makes companies change their tactics and actually give us better product and results. Weeds out the trash products and gives us a better market.
Richard's doing gods work
You got that right!! I've learned more about engines in the last few weeks since finding Richard than I did in the 41 years prior haha!
@@mrmidnight32 Brand name headers cost way to much - They can charge way less then maybe there sales will increase
First rule about fight club, you don’t talk about fight club.
Lucky Goose 😂😂😂fr
Looks like you were broadcasting when you should have been tuning in..
Lmao
right on
🤐
I had an idea the power levels were not gonna be much different vs eBay headers and name brand but my personal experience is the name brand exhaust last longer and hardly ever have fitment issues. The fitment issues on cheap headers can be a nightmare so that alone makes me pay the extra money to get the more expensive ones. Great video
This is the most pro consumer vid of all time remember it’s us vs them I love when people help each other out gotta pay it forward 🙏🏽
We install headers almost daily & we also have a dyno jet. You are correct on the power output is equal. When a customer comes in with ebay headers we charge a extra 2 hours on the install ($220) because THEY NEVER FIT!!! We have to reem out flange holes on ebay headers all the time. God forbid a customer brings in a long tube + y-pipe ebay combo because the y pipe always needs a ton of persuasion to align which more often than not requires cutting and welding. Moral of this story, what you save on buy ebay headers is spent on installation so it winds up costing the same. I say buy name brand because in that case you get customer service from the manufacture and a real warranty not a Wuhan Warranty!
This is solid advise! Few people ever look at the whole of a job.
I was just going to say this about fitment and buying cheap headers. This why I went with kooks 1-7/8" on my 08 Vette. I want it all to fit right and I don't want them to hang low like all the cheap ones do
What I saved from buying on ebay I used on another mod for my car instead of giving it to some chumps to unscrew and screw back on a pipe.
I just installed DNA long tube headers, mid pipe with y pipe assembly on my 2009 RAM...overall pretty impressive and their customer service even in China has responded to all my requests and or issues....I would 100% recommend the DNA long tube headers...and oh yah they are pretty loud and mean sounding with my Flowmaster super 10 ....👍
You just saved me a lot of headaches and a ton of money with these tests
Hi Richard 👋...great unbiased tests!...we need more of this!
Thank you!!! These videos are gonna eliminate so many annoying threads on ls1tech😂🤣
Lmfaoo so true
Im liking this to engine masters. You have more time to explain the information.
@@dj4monie i love to watch dumb people get there doors blown off.
These videos seem to pack a bit more information, but a little less humor.
Yep, I've ran the inexpensive headers on my vehicles for years. MUCH appreciate your sharing and work on this video, backs up what I've always said and felt, and I certainly will use this to share! When you look at the price difference, troubles or longetivity isnt much a problem to me, when I can buy multiple inexpensive sets vs just the one
You my friend took the words right out of my mouth - LOL
eBay hard parts have gotten a hell of a lot better and now everyone realizes they've been getting ripped off for parts that have no moving parts you should do a video on intercoolers talk about getting ripped off
Already got ebay longtubes for my Coyote, they work great.. less then $200.00 for them only issue i had was one 02 sensor bung was welded a little off center from the hole so a little grinding was needed to get the sensor to thread in, but im not complaining, I saved alot of money.
That was a great test!!! I just bought some E-bay headers for my 6.0 project in my f-body. This was so relieving to know I made a good choice!
@@dj4monie haha nobody builds their own anymore
Very cool to see the differences from each type of header. Id like to see it one step further with other bolt on mods. Such as cai, tb, and aftermarket intakes. Nice work regardless!
I’ve wanted to see him run all the cai brands just for fun
I had to get an ebay header for my old car, 93 sidekick. The old stock manifold was cracked. It did run a lot better, mostly from not having the crack. But for IIRC $80 and $120 for a shop to install them, compared to $400 for a set of replacement manifolds. It was a great Improvement.
Great video! Yesterday i was looking for a test like this, im about to put some headers on a BBC in my truck, perfect timing. You also cleared up the misinformation ive read about where power gains are at in rpm range with shorty's vs long tubes. Thanks again!
Edit to add...i agree with others, this testing does help us all a lot. Its hard to sift through all the conflicting info on the internet. Its great to see an actual test.
Thanks for the hard work in your study, those of us without your experience and resources truly appreciate the education you provide, party on..
The biggest thing I learned is anything naturally aspirated under 550HP doesn't need dual 3" exhaust. The 2.5" didn't trade anything up top and gained torque down low over the 3".
Good point. I also noticed that all of the testing takes place above 3500 rpm. So for a street car not in the rpm nosebleed section, you may be able to do pretty well with just a good set of manifolds.
My DNA headers had straight, thick flanges and fit great with no leaks but upgraded the gaskets just to make sure. $200 for good looking headers. I am happy with them for sure.
Thank you so much for proven results! About to build my first LS, and all these videos save me money, and show real world gains and fixes.
The Jury's In ! Best Bang For the Buck on stock is correct cam and springs that still work with the Stock Torque Converter
I don't doubt performance is similar eBay vs name brand, fitment and longevity is usually the issue
Colin1337 yeah my eBay headers rusted up super quick for being stainless. But they did fit and work good
And you don't mind banging up a set of $200 headers compared to a set that cost $500
Superado2006 you must be an LS guy cuz $500 is eBay headers for mopar haha
@@jeepwk6.5LUh... this is a video on LS headers... so yep.
Superado2006 lol
This is a good test but one thing you have to factor in is header primary tube and collector flow on each set of headers. We have found through dyno testing and flowbench testing that header flow will have a dramatic effect on hp output. Two different flowing shorty headers will not produce the Same power output. Same as the long tubes. There's so much science involved when searching for more hp.
Richard it appears that you had or are having a medical condition and your fan base hopes that you are feeling better in the New Year. Mad Respect
if by medical condition you mean falling on my face-then yes!
Richard, can't thank you enough for the videos you put out!
I'd like to see what YOU choose to go cheap on and what YOU refuse to, I enjoy watching your channel it's extremely informative and a little different than all the billion other channels. Needless to say I'll watch your channel for a new video before others. Hope your head heals up n good luck
You get in a fight with a slippery wrench? ;) LOL.... HERES TO A HAPPY NEW YEAR Richard ! !
I love data.Thanks Richard.What surprised me was the fact that even though it's just headers there really wasn't as much of a gain over factory manifolds.
Yo RICH your videos are RICH.
LOADS OF INFORMATION FOR THE LAYMAN AND THE PROFESSIONAL.
YOU ARE THE BEST.
Frieburger and crew take heed.
By the way. I purchased the cheap Ebay headers for my 6.0 Ls build
Just as test and engine break in. The fit was poor and broke a couple of spark plugs upon installation.
In my opinion the more expensive headers are the way to go if your going to keep them for every day use or racing.
Having run many inexpensive headers ($89 i think was the cheapest and they burned #3 wire off every other month) i was thinking of the fit and customer service through most of this video. Great job hitting all the points!
Really interesting comparison thank you
Excellent work sir!!
What the? Get back to your garage and make more videos!
Hope to see some videos from you. Miss the content and your face
If DNA isn't supplying you with the stuff you need for these videos, they need to because you probably just sold over 100 long tubes from them. Count me as 2.
IKR
Makes me feel lot better about the DNA headers (JBA clones for Tacoma) I'm getting ready to install on 4rnr
I'm running a DNA header on a Geo Tracker of all things. Can confirm it is identical to the supposedly "USA made" option from LROR.
I put the same DNA headers on my 15 SS camaro I like them they are nice for the price but if I had the $1200 for Kooks I would've bought them. Great vid
Ive bought for fbodys before nice to have data now thanks Richard
I put these cheap eBay headers on my 2012 Crew cab 243 heads 600 lift cam 4 years ago great set up.
Getting ready to swap to an LS in our Monza. This was very timely!
Gotta give anyone keeping an old Monza alive a thumbs up!!
I have set DNA headers on wife’s suburban for couple years. Been very happy with them. Next up will be a truck cam.
I like that you do apples to apples stuff.... 5 decades of hearing how this manifold for intake or exhaust will add "25% HP gain! I love to see the actual practical numbers. Also... I put the camaro cast manifolds on my 5.3 in an LS conversion and they added about the same power.
What year of Camaro and what did you swap the engine into?
I'm going to swap a 5.3 in a 92 Sonoma with 4WD. I still have the stock manifolds, but I am just wanting to plan ahead and see what other people have gone with.
Thanks for this one. I've been battling back and forth with folks about brand name headers and cheap copies of them. Forget spending thousands of dollars for brand name headers.
James Williams you think the companies making knock offs are testing? lol someone has to design through r&d these products but you take the risk if your eBay part is a knock off of something that works or something that’s good enough.
@@hopsyn Nope. I don't think they are testing. But in my case, I have OBX copies of Kooks headers for a G8. They've been dyno tested before in the past and they were within 1-5 hp of Kooks. For less than half the price. So, I'm happy... Lol
James Williams Ppl who buy the expensive brand got the money for it so they can careless searching for cheaper. Also the more expensive brands like kooks comes with better quality v band clamps and provide 02 extenders
@@isiahgomez6860 I got the money for the good stuff also. And Ive had my cheap stuff for years. But double the price for 5 hp? No sir.
@@isiahgomez6860 and Kooks doesn't offer the O2 extensions for free. I got mine for 10 bucks. Everyone else wanted 30. And I've had no issues.
Fit, finish, flange thickness, and overall quality matter just as much as the power numbers. Changing header flange and collector gaskets that leak all the time sucks. Same with headers that fit poorly or rot out after a year or two. Great test Richard! Best of luck in 2020, if you take a tumble on New Years eve, don't catch yourself with your face 😁
when I find something good-I stick with it! Face first into 2020
I run the Speed Engineering LT headers on my 5th gen zl1. Been over a year no problems and fitment was no problem.
... oh yeah, and please feel better, get well soon, hope you have a full and speedy recovery!
Great test. But the difference isn't in performance between the cheap headers...
The issue is the construction and durability
Ebay headers just as good hands down
@@cobaltsslsj5891 No, they are made with inferior metals, not machined to high tolerances so expect warping, rusting and leaks earlier than a quality set. They make roughly the same power, so if your project is only expected to live 2-3 years it's a great header. If you want to keep your vehicle for many years, buy the quality ones that will last.
@@The_Fat_Turtle when i can buy 3 sets compared to high $$$$$$$ ones it's a win win . the quality of ebay is great , i bought a set for my Cobalt SS and it was just as good as the ZZP in every way but $400 cheaper - putting a set on my LS swapped S10 and they are great
I’ve looked at EBay headers. I liked the fact that they were stainless, but read the reviews about figment, and durability. They weren’t too convincing. I ended up getting a good set of Schoenfeld circle track headers, cause I wanted low to mid range torque. I had to remove my AC box to get them in, but once I did, the headers fell right into place. For a street rod that I only drive in goo weather, it was worth it. I gained ground clearance. My original mass produced headers didn’t give me that. I don’t have to lift the engine to remove or install them, and they actually gave me a pretty noticeable kick in the butt, when I drove it.
Really would like to see a comparison to Tri-Y long tube headers, such as Doug Thorley.
Dont know about v8 s but i know on 4cyls they are the best design
Also testing true merge collectors vs non merge would be interesting.
Yes. This is what we need
Hey Bub, I usually don’t make comments but you definitely got a subscriber on this one I want to see more!
I bought some headers for 300$ seen the unbranded same design! For 109$.. on eBay just doesn't have the sexy name plate on it like mine.. I've been needing this video basically so I can sleep better.
Great test, keep this up and the big manufacturers are gonna give you free stuff to test anymore 😎
EXCELLENT TEST!!! Although my ebay headers have 3" collector.... lol
Lol mine too and fit great.
eBay headers fit great on an engine dyno
They fit great in my big truck before it got the turbo treatment.
Yea they fit great on my 2011 silverado
9090ruby
Engine Masters already covered denting headers to clear objects doesn’t affect power much. They beat the hell out of a couple Hookers with hammers to prove it.
ChuckO doesn’t mean i want to go denting up my exhaust to make it fit
@@9090ruby pretty clear you have never built anything before. Nothing ever fits as advertised. If your even lucky enough to get the right parts on the first try.
I have Speed Engineerings on my truck, I even have a review on them, I've had them for a couple of years and everything has been great
Same here I buy from them every time love their headers
Same here
Just bought a set for my vette. Came here hoping to see people talking about speed eng. and these results. Glad I got them now.
I’m still amazed with those 4.8s. Great numbers and the revs just keep climbing
Thanks for the rundown on the results! Def great info to know! Based on that data, as long as the fitment of the inexpensive headers is acceptable, then I wouldn't have any issue with using them. From a cost perspective, they're pretty much disposable.. but nobody want to replace stuff "just because". So, it would be interesting to hear from others about their longer-term experience with the lesser priced parts with regard to rusting, reliability of the welds (life without leaks), as well as discoloration. Ceramic? Blankets? Bare?
I imagine that Richard would excel in an American Sign Language course!
Thanks again!
We found that if you modify the short header exit to proper merge collector it will make as much as long tube version.
it will not
@@richardholdener1727 It will. At least 5 dyno runs to prove it. We compared modified ebay shorties to kooks - 5.0 coyote. Literally no difference
These videos are so awesome, I have become addicted to them.
They sure do! I have a few videos on my channel about how I bought and installed some ebay headers for my 5.7 Hemi Challenger.
This video was very helpful, i had a set of cheap eBay headers on my 95 vw golf, where almost all of the parts came from fleabay.... on my new chrysler 300c ill most likely go with a set of more expensive long tubes, especially since it's going to get a cam and tuner! Thanks for taking the time to make these videos!
hmm frustrating for the Brand headers.. but I am happy with the results ..because i just changed from super Cheap DNA Shortys 67$ a pair, to BBK Long tubes..next week I will know how much better they work.. but I m shure they do... nice Test !!!
Great comparison that was well articulated and unbiased.There 2 other things to consider. Flange thickness which can affect sealing and pipe thickness which affects underhood head and noise.
Cheap ebay for the win of course - no way going to pay for the name brand - awesome video Thanks
Another great video from Richard, I would go with the name brand Richard didn't mention it but quality thickness of the tubing ect makes a difference of longevity
Great video!!! I have 17 Roush Stage LC3 makes 800+HP and big name headers suck as Kooks, SW and corsa are 1,300+ and a company 2M Fabercation make a set of long-tubes for 15+ Mustang GTs that are 304- stainless and fit great for 480 bucks
Roush LC3 sam what do you think about pacesetter headers I found them on summit racing
@@JJ-gr7th I Don't know much about them but I just got a set of Texas Speed and for 750 bucks you can't beat them
Awesome video! Exactly the straight forward analysis I was looking for
Great test I love how much info you pack in a short video
I put a set of Hooker Super Comps on my mild 350 in my '76 Camaro. I only used them because I found a set for $50. But I have to say they are the best fitting SBC headers I've ever owned. I only had to clearance one tube to clear a spark plug. Everything else was great. They might not be optimal but the good fit was worth the trade off.
Awesome video! What did I learn? Headers don’t make as much power as people think they do.
Bottom line is LS engines breathe very well even stock
On a stock engine no, but on a modified motor they do and more.
You missed the point. Peak power - no. Bottom end gains - hell yeah
Actually took my DNA headers out of the box today. I work with stainless steel for a living. These are definitely not 304. They are some extremely low grade stainless and you can get a magnet to stick fairly well on the tubes and i had no problem getting one to stick on the flanges. For $200 I'm not going to complain too much as long as they have a reasonable fit. One of the "mid pipe" tubes is ovaled pretty good and isn't going to work out of the box. I'm probably going to make my own with an x-pipe and true duals. The hardware and gaskets are going in the trash.
thank you for the video's, They are some of best video's on RUclips ,
Liked it just based off the opening pic. Keep up the great work Richard, some GREAT videos lately!
I was always told the big difference at least for ford headers was Flange thickness. Cheaper one can look identical but material and thickness of the flange are the big difference. Cheaper one's tend to warp over time and break studs and obviously cause exhaust leaks. Great video btw very useful information!
i stopped watching engine masters to watch this dude hit that thumbs up
You teach information very well… easy to follow and understand… my question is… I’ve seen different design in shorties.. I have a set of hookers that are called GT 500 tuned shorties design for a 4.6/3v and they have actual collector as others don’t … I’ve also seen DNA from eBay with the same design… my question is is there any difference in design of shorties when ie comes to power… and not compare to long tube…
you need primary length
Can you explain the meaning of “tuned shorties” as compared to “non-tuned”.. and is that just advertising.. now I understand pulse exhaust timing which is why LT’s are the best but how does that improve the shorties…when the primary’s are not equal lengths…because I noticed an increase in power when I installed my shorties..
Can you please bolt on some 180 degree headers and see if they make a difference over long tubes , I love the way they sound
It’s nice to see that the 4.8l with a cam wasn’t really that “restricted” with stock cast manifolds at high RPM’s.
I wrote a book on Focus Performance-including a chapter on turbos-they can make good power
Anthony Thomas, you’re right, but the point I was making is that I and many people have had the belief that you have to get headers to make power and allow the engine breath, when in reality you need to upgrade your cam shaft for better results as far as high RPM power
I put Chinese headers on a f150, had a hard time on a couple ports getting bolts in because if the tube being so big and no room for the head of the bolts. Thanks for the video
Great information, thank you for saving me a ton of headache and $$$
Would love to see tuned length headers vs standard long tubes.
It is one hell of an undertaking. Tuned headers are also a part of a tuned intake. Ever wondered why a Ferrari V12 screams? It's the intake tuning related to the headers. That's what Ferrari does better than just about anybody.
You should try porting stock manifolds that's what I did but dont know how much it helped
Porting helps flow but not scavenging
Cool channel, I just watched your turbo HEMI video and was very impressed.
Thx that’s all I needed for my daily driver
The shorties will be just fine
Another great video ! Thanks for taking the time to educate us !! I'll bet this same test on a 6.0 liter would be more exaggerated differences.. hmmmmmm
we ran it on a 6.2L
Did you watch the Video? He also did the comparison on a LS3
Price does matter....in case you are all wondering...Cost me around 350 total with the long tube headers, mid pipe, and y pipe assembly...
Stock LS manifolds flow really well!
Kinda, but they hit one hell of a brick wall once you go above what they were designed for. But the lack of leaks, ease of installation etc. is very tempting.
I bought the ebay headers because the stock exhaust manifolds on my vortec engines shrink and break the bolts off in the heads. The ebay headers fit perfectly, thick flanges and they work great with no leaks.
Another great video!!! It's nice to see someone tell the truth about the expensive products.
American Racing for my 2012 Grand Sport Corvette. I have had Speed Engineering on a C7 and they seemed to do fine but didn't have the car long enough to see how they would last.
Really cool to see on the 3 setups. Keep it up Richard!
Happy with my ebay headers. Had them ceramic coated keeps heat way down
Love your video, would have liked a chart with all the numbers from the 3 engines and headers at the end.
Cheap or steep?
I have never had a name brand company help me out with a warranty or a customer service issue without fighting for days or even weeks. For me I’ll run the cheap headers and replace them every couple years. Not to mention it’s easier to stomach bashing them to fit.
eBay Headers, great for dyno runs, drill and weld all of the 02 bungs you need, since they're that close to name brands.
What you should have mentioned is the benefits from long tube headers down low when you take off from the stop light. For a Heavy vehicle like a truck, there is where they really shine.
I think I mentioned the low-speed torque gains offered by the long tubes several times-but one more can't hurt
$1500 to $2000 for headers is just to much for a stock engine with just a cam upgrade!
It's to much for any engine.
only to gain 20hp if that
its too much for anything that doesnt make 2000+hp and need to be made out of titanium
@@1godgodgodgodgod 8:1 collector with boom tubes may be worth it. Beyond that it's a pissing match.
R
I've always liked the long tube headers better but never used them they're just sitting in the garage. But after learning that I might fit them on
Very well done. Straight forward, no bs
After seeing the dyno tests on cam only ls3 I really want one. Great bargain for an aluminum 550 hp engine!
Great video! Thanks for the testing. For further improving these videos: putting a table with all the results in one shot after the testing would be really nice.
I was actually just thinking about getting the dna headers for my Silverado this video just sold me
Nice results! My question would be the gains of the cheap turbo headers vs the high$$$ brands. 3”v band collector style. I’m curious to see the pros and cons of the inexpensive turbo headers.
Keep up the awesome content!
the cheap turbo headers work well-the ones I tested just don't have good plug access and want to burn plug wires
Richard Holdener I guess that’s the biggest drawback vs the big $$$ name brands