Thank you! I kept looking for an analysis of many works but couldn't find anything like this, so I just started doing my own and apparently there is a need for it because I got a lot of positive response.
Time stops for the whole analysis: -00:04- 1st Movement (Sonata Form) 00:04- Exposition 02:37- Development 03:50- Recapitulation -06:45- 2nd Movement (Double Variations Form) 06:45- Theme A 07:34- Theme B 08:30- Variation 1 on theme A 09:17- Variation 1 on theme B 10:11- Variation 2 on theme A 11:53- Variation 2 on theme B -15:29- 3rd Movement (Scherzo and Trio Form) 15:29- Scherzo 17:12- Trio 18:29-Scherzo -20:12- 4th Movement (Sonata Form) 20:12- Exposition 24:03- Development 26:05- Recapitulation
I would imagine that loosing your hearing sometimes may feel like you’re hallucinating: sometimes you get the sound, sometimes it disappears because of the frequency it is now, but then sometimes you only get a fraction of it and those times you’re mind tricks you into “thinking” a sound that is actually not there. With the 5th it always feels to me that he is trying to depict that struggle, helps me to empathise with him anyway
What do you think about the bassoon @ 4:40? Old school conductors replaced it with the horn, like in the Expo. I read that in Beethoven's day the horn players needed time to change tubing to play in a different key. That's why Beethoven used the bassoon, although it does sound weird. The argument is that he would've used the horn if he had modern instruments. But if he really wanted a horn, not a bassoon, then why not just have an extra horn player standing by (no need for any instrument fiddling)??? PS: Makes me think of the controversy around the Eroica's coda (1st mvt) where Beethoven cuts off the trumpets from doing the complete main theme and gives 'em to the winds instead. A lot of conductors use trumpets all the way through now. I think Mackerras does that too? Speaking of which, there's a dark passage in the Eroica's finale coda that reminds me of the 5th's Scherzo return in the finale. Both are like symbols of how darkness & dread can return and why you always have to be vigilant. :) THANK YOU FOR THESE INCREDIBLE VIDEOS!!!
Just personal opinion of course, but I never think it's a good idea to try and guess what Beethoven "would have wanted". To me, that's like saying Beethoven would have played his piano sonatas on an electronic synthesizer had he had access to one. I prefer the bassoons in the recapitulation (and I'm a horn player). I always thought of it as a "weakened attempt" by Theme 2 to establish C Major after getting beat up in the development by C minor. It also mirrors the third movement the same way (menacing horns in the first scherzo, subdued bassoons in the second scherzo), only this time it's C minor that is tamed by C Major. Mackerras doesn't use the trumpets in the Eroica for the phrase in question because even though he used modern instruments and modern tuning, he utilized historic performance practice (which is why I like his cycle so much). His research is unbelievably detailed in the CD booklet and is very convincing.
@@Nyssa337 Yes, I see now how it foreshadows the bizarrely weakened bassoons in the Scherzo! One last point about the 1st mvt: What do you think of David Hurwitz's analysis that the 2nd theme is transmogrified into a "psychotic nightmare" in the coda? The passage is Part 4 from 5:55 to 6:11, what you refer to as "inversion of march style motive." You can hear Hurwitz describe it at 16 mins and 2 seconds into his vid: ruclips.net/video/iq2-u8_kQAw/видео.html I never heard that before, and still wonder if I'm hearing it correctly. Cheers!
@@NN-df7hl - I see where Mr. Hurwitz is coming from, and it makes sense that the only theme of hope (theme 2) would be trampled in the C minor onslaught of the CODA. However, every aspect of the movement grows organically out of the 4 note motive that begins the symphony so its all related and anyone can pretty much hear what they wish to hear, which is part of the genius of Beethoven's compositional craft.
Yes the Bass Motive is the underpinning of Theme 2. Beethoven elevates it in the Development from a background idea to a foreground idea in its own right.
Wow. A phrase by phrase analysis that is completely lacking anywhere else. Bravo. ❤.
Thank you! I kept looking for an analysis of many works but couldn't find anything like this, so I just started doing my own and apparently there is a need for it because I got a lot of positive response.
Time stops for the whole analysis:
-00:04- 1st Movement (Sonata Form)
00:04- Exposition
02:37- Development
03:50- Recapitulation
-06:45- 2nd Movement (Double Variations Form)
06:45- Theme A
07:34- Theme B
08:30- Variation 1 on theme A
09:17- Variation 1 on theme B
10:11- Variation 2 on theme A
11:53- Variation 2 on theme B
-15:29- 3rd Movement (Scherzo and Trio Form)
15:29- Scherzo
17:12- Trio
18:29-Scherzo
-20:12- 4th Movement (Sonata Form)
20:12- Exposition
24:03- Development
26:05- Recapitulation
"Oboe cadenza wtf"...funny!
I would imagine that loosing your hearing sometimes may feel like you’re hallucinating: sometimes you get the sound, sometimes it disappears because of the frequency it is now, but then sometimes you only get a fraction of it and those times you’re mind tricks you into “thinking” a sound that is actually not there. With the 5th it always feels to me that he is trying to depict that struggle, helps me to empathise with him anyway
this was amazing. ty
Amazing video
Impressing! Thanks
What do you think about the bassoon @ 4:40? Old school conductors replaced it with the horn, like in the Expo. I read that in Beethoven's day the horn players needed time to change tubing to play in a different key. That's why Beethoven used the bassoon, although it does sound weird. The argument is that he would've used the horn if he had modern instruments. But if he really wanted a horn, not a bassoon, then why not just have an extra horn player standing by (no need for any instrument fiddling)???
PS: Makes me think of the controversy around the Eroica's coda (1st mvt) where Beethoven cuts off the trumpets from doing the complete main theme and gives 'em to the winds instead. A lot of conductors use trumpets all the way through now. I think Mackerras does that too?
Speaking of which, there's a dark passage in the Eroica's finale coda that reminds me of the 5th's Scherzo return in the finale. Both are like symbols of how darkness & dread can return and why you always have to be vigilant. :)
THANK YOU FOR THESE INCREDIBLE VIDEOS!!!
Just personal opinion of course, but I never think it's a good idea to try and guess what Beethoven "would have wanted". To me, that's like saying Beethoven would have played his piano sonatas on an electronic synthesizer had he had access to one. I prefer the bassoons in the recapitulation (and I'm a horn player). I always thought of it as a "weakened attempt" by Theme 2 to establish C Major after getting beat up in the development by C minor. It also mirrors the third movement the same way (menacing horns in the first scherzo, subdued bassoons in the second scherzo), only this time it's C minor that is tamed by C Major.
Mackerras doesn't use the trumpets in the Eroica for the phrase in question because even though he used modern instruments and modern tuning, he utilized historic performance practice (which is why I like his cycle so much). His research is unbelievably detailed in the CD booklet and is very convincing.
@@Nyssa337 Yes, I see now how it foreshadows the bizarrely weakened bassoons in the Scherzo!
One last point about the 1st mvt: What do you think of David Hurwitz's analysis that the 2nd theme is transmogrified into a "psychotic nightmare" in the coda? The passage is Part 4 from 5:55 to 6:11, what you refer to as "inversion of march style motive."
You can hear Hurwitz describe it at 16 mins and 2 seconds into his vid: ruclips.net/video/iq2-u8_kQAw/видео.html
I never heard that before, and still wonder if I'm hearing it correctly. Cheers!
@@NN-df7hl - I see where Mr. Hurwitz is coming from, and it makes sense that the only theme of hope (theme 2) would be trampled in the C minor onslaught of the CODA. However, every aspect of the movement grows organically out of the 4 note motive that begins the symphony so its all related and anyone can pretty much hear what they wish to hear, which is part of the genius of Beethoven's compositional craft.
Very cool! Would be nice to see the 4NM notation in Coda - Parts 5-7.
Well its in practically every measure if you look for it. 🙂
What does 4NM stand for ?
My shorthand for "4 note motive" that begins the symphony.
Mekel, is the "Bass motive" in the Development of the finale based on Theme 2? Or is it an entirely new idea? Thnx!!!
Yes the Bass Motive is the underpinning of Theme 2. Beethoven elevates it in the Development from a background idea to a foreground idea in its own right.