TEN HOURS to replace one sensor! Ford 150 torn to pieces! Evaporator Core replacement.
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2024
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Time To install the Dash. Pt2 EVAP installation. ruclips.net/video/MH-rN8WTKsA/видео.html
Ray I'm sure there's been times when someone had to say all hands on deck for tasks like this one here.
Thank you for posting this video, if you ever do anymore work on F150’s-F250’s-F350’s etc please post them.
Couldnt you have used a pair of curved needle nose? The 90 degree angle would have been enough to tug it free no?
@@ZeroTRK no I managed to get my hands in there, wouldn’t budge, plus I think the probe was longer than the suave between the cute and the case wall
@rainmanray'srepairs u ate florida og bro... that is about as og as u cam get bro
This is a job I would totally tackle myself.
And by that I mean; I would disassemble the dash and replace the sensor, then drive around the next 4 years with half the dash in the back seat because I couldn't remember how to reassemble it.
Be careful. That’s starting to sound like some of the stooopid shiite that I do. Don’t make me go to the patent attorney 😜🤣
At least you'd get half the dash back in. I'd probably just end up mounting the gauge cluster on some plywood and using a couple vice grips as a steering wheel.
Take pictures while disassembling things you're not familiar with. Lay the parts out with the fasteners next to the holes they go to and mark them with a paint marker so you know where they go.
Had a 98 Durango, heater core went, 10 hr. book time, had to pull the dash, took me 21 hours (not a pro) but I got it done.
At one point in time i owned 4 vehicles that had the steering column cover removed at the same time.
Some were that way for over a year.
This is where the design engineer needs to demonstrate the easy way to replace a temperature thermocouple which should be behind some sort of access panel. Unbelievable the amount of work required to replace a 20 dollar thermocouple. Great work Ray.
I've heard that a lot of mechanics refuse to work on Ford vehicles because of the crazy engineering. Just stupid stuff like 2 piece spark plugs that break off in the cylinder head etc.
I'd say it gives engineers a bad rep but I know plenty of dumb engineers. But you're 100% correct! How many times have you seen an access door to a fuel pump? Removing the tank to change a pump is idiotic. Removing a truck bed being "easier" but still sucks! Those bed mount bolts never get stuck... ugh
@@WVdavidB as an almost engineer, I have to agree with you. I’ve met a lot of dumb engineers. Elon had a design competition for the cars for his hyper loop. Basically a giant vacuum tube like banks use. Every single Ivy League college design team decided independently that the best way to propel a vehicle through a vacuum would be the use of a giant fan. Every single one of them was astounded that it didn’t work. Turns out for a propeller to work, it needs air to push against.
I wish I could say this is less common. Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler likewise manage to create $2000 jobs worth of labor to replace a $13 component. Honda J35A7 VCM nightmares with not one but two gaskets holding pressurized oil about an inch above your alternator which just loves oil baths.
Problems like these make it all the way to the military where engineers and their respective companies produce, for example, AAVs without ever once thinking of trying to climb in the back and sit down wearing military gear like 100% of real world customers will do, then wonder why the military complains about the interior getting people killed when it starts sinking. And don't get my started on how many software bugs they already admitted they will never be able to fix in that latest, greatest multipurpose stealth-fighter-bomber... 800+ problems on delivery from the most expensive fighter in US history.
Honestly you can beat the engineers with a ball peen hammer but untill you drag the CEO, CFO, and managers down to the production floor and make their lives miserable it will probably never fully "click" why people complain about their products so much.
It also really doesn't help that so many enineers come from families where the kid can afford to drive a BMW to school but struggles to grasp which end of the soldering iron is hot. When $2000 seems like pocket change to you, what's the problem? When you've never made below a certain amount of course shit designs look fine. You can always afford to pay someone else to fix it.
On my own car I’d figure out the resistance range the computed expects and build an appropriate sensor out of a thermistor and a voltage divider. Less than a dollar in parts. But for someone else’s car… it sucks Ford doesn’t have a part number for that sensor.
Thank you for showing the world why it costs a fortune to get certain repairs done. You definitely deserve proper compensation. 👏
Ford probably had a lot of complaints about it taking ten hours to replace a $20 sensor. So the bean counters had a meeting and decided that the sensor should not be sold separately. Ten hours work to replace a $250 evaporator seems much more reasonable!
After spending my life in this business I can assure you manufacturers do not want things like this to happen, there is not one positive return from this. Based on the performance of items like this sensor they feel like it will most likely never fail but what happens sometimes is that the subcontractor uses subpar materials even though the contract explicitly states no substitutions.
Haha.
@@Bass.Player All those little motors, blend door, mode etc have been known high failure items for decades yet they still bury them. it aint their problem so tough luck.
@@thud1241 Well find a way not to bury a blend door. I changed a blend door motor on my GC a few years ago in 15 minutes.
blend doors and motors are generally not a failure point, what should have easier access is heater cores and evaporators...
TOP PUTZ OF FORD to all PEEONS........ this poster has uncovered too much, anybody wishing an Xmas boner this year knows what to do. Ummmm, thats BONUS......
I know most manufacturers require a dash removal to access the core but Ford has got to take the cake. A ten year old Ford. I'd understand a part failing after 20 years but in today's world, that truck is basically new. Until last year, I had always owned a Ford but finally converted my entire fleet to Toyota. Leaps and bounds above Ford in almost every way. Ford has been making cars and trucks longer than anyone else and they still can't get it right. Ridiculous.
Glad you're able to keep a positive attitude Ray. Always impressed.
I owned a 2007 Toyota Tundra and a plastic gear broke in the HVAC box under the dash. You cannot buy the gear separate and the HVAC box cost $1200.00. Required the whole dash to come out and total bill $2500.00. Knowning what I know today I would have dismantled the dash and welded the plastic gear with baking soda and superglue. To add insult to injury the gas gauge failed to read below 1/4 tank after the dealer return the vehicle and refused to fix it. That was another $400.00, this is known issue with the Toyota's. So good luck they aren't perfect either.
This video don't help Ford to sell more F150:s
I get it, no one manufacturer is perfect. But on the grand scale and overall quality, Ford misses the mark time after time.
It's corruption from Ford they can make cars rights but they won't because they want to make more money
@@Bryan-Hensley Indeed, what a pain to work on these trashcans like damn not even FIAT does it that bad and I seen them use recycled plastic for the base of the radiator wich is very nice because you sneeze at it nd the whole thing broke down.
this has to be up there on the list of most complicated sensors to replace.
I am a retired BMW technician. We had the same problem with A/C freezing up on certain models.. we found that adding a resistor on one side of the temp probe brought the sensor back into spec. I used a potentiometer to get the exact resistor value. That may have been a very cheap fix.
Spot on!!! And saved 10h of stupid work. I can bet it is just typical thermocouple with specific resistance.
@@mciepi If I remember right, most of those sensors are just that.
Work smarter 👍
We like to watch things get torn apart, not easy fixes.
Ford introduced a resistor add-on for the last step in bringing engine temp gauge readings in the normal range on many Lincoln models in early '80s. We even had a warranty code for the procedure which paid like 0.3hrs..................
On my own truck if this happened, I'd definitely use a dremel with fine saw wheel, and cut that plastic case open near the bottom to get access to the original spot for the sensor. Replace with a junkyard sensor from a similar year F150, solder up wiring, then use JB Weld and reinforcing metal mesh to glue the cut plastic piece back into place
On a 10 year old truck, who knows, maybe Ray's customer would have given him permission for that. Great videos Ray!
Great minds think alike... I was thinking the same thing.
I did that on a Volvo. After cutting the access hole I just covered it with duct tape
I would just put resistors inline with the bad sensor to get the reading you want. I've done something similar with oxygen sensors.
@@georgiadronefootage4136 I thought exactly along those lines as well. Give it the reading it requires to cycle on/off.
Did that to my 87 Hilux. Out with the Dremel & cut out the plastic. Gaffa taped the plastic back after. No way was I going to pull the dash apart just to clear the dirt out of the evaporator fins.
I could take it apart but no way would I ever get it back together lol hats off to you .. you have a lot of patience and a good memory lol
Don’t have a clue how you can figure this stuff out but especially how you can remember how to put it back together again. Thanks for sharing.
Ray will be at home now watching this video in reverse !!
he looked at the live data. it told him what was wrong. He showed you the temp sensor reading and how it was faulty. I'm not downplaying what he does in any way, but most cars have highly advanced built in diagnostics and it's easy to figure out whats going on - most of the time. as far as diassembly, normally they have access to the labor guides that tell them how to do it. But keeping organized is key
@@samjones1954 As someone with tremors in one hand, the idea of trying to keep track of parts that small and line them up gives me anxiety!
In depth was an understatement. Im always learning something from your videos.
@@samjones1954 I don't think it's fair to say "What he does is nothing." I'm not a mechanic, but I've worked on stuff over the years, and you have to have a knack for it, and he makes it look a lot easier than it is, even when it looks hard. I've seen a lot of incompetence over the years, some of which you just have to stare at in wonder. I'd be happy to take my cars to Ray if he wasn't about 2K miles away from me. Auto technicians are probably the most dumped on of all the technical disciplines. It's physically demanding, you're exposed to toxic chemicals, you can injure yourself badly if you don't know what you're doing. You also typically have to buy all your own tools and keep up on your certifications and training, out of pocket. You have to be a computer technician, an electrician, a contortionist, and sometimes a bit of an engineer. And for a final kick in the nuts, you often don't make as much money as in other technical fields, such as IT or medicine.
A long time ago a customer came to check on my progress getting his A/C vents to work in a 1982 Cadillac Limo while I had the entire dash on a blanket on top of the roof. He FREAKED out. The vents were controlled by a unit sitting above the transmission bell housing right on the firewall to the left of the evaporator box. All of the vacuum hoses were dry rotted and needed to be replaced. This is the same limo I stuffed a 1978 Oldsmobile rocket 350 High Performance, with stainless exhaust manifolds in and he asked me if this motor was enough for this huge limo. I took him on a test drive and smoked the tires for him & he smiled.
I also had to remove the bar in the rear to replace the rear heat / A/C blower motor with dual cages.
Good job Ray. My dash work only took 6 hours but your has a LOT more to it than back in the old days. I like that you wanted to save them some $$ but ya know " the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Maybe just stick to the plan from now on? BTW, did you entertain the idea of cutting in an access hole to remove & replace the sensor, then make a sealed cover for the hole? I thought of this because I was one the first mechanics to work on replacing a cam in a 1982 Cadillac Cimerron & had to make an access hole in the inner fender to do so.
This reminds me of when the heater core went out in my 1980 Firebird. My dad cut an opening in the plastic box and we pulled it out easily. Put the square “door” back in place and some neatly cut, black duct tape made it look good. Actually couldn’t see the tape unless you looked under the dash.
I would have called the owner of this truck and told him that a simple hole could be made to access the part. I would go to a junkyard and do the same to remove the sensor and put it in this truck.
Its good to see you tried a money saving method for your customer.
I've only heard of such horror jobs......I've now seen one and I cant unsee it. $1000 labor costs for a $20 sensor. Not to mention, nothing ever goes back to be like it was. Mad respect for you Ray.
Don't forget the cost of the evaporator, $1100.00, I believe he said. Plus all the money he spent the last time. Hate to be him.
I had a transmission seal in the front leak in 74. $120.00 for the labor. $4.00 for the seal.
I did this exact job on my 99 Intrepid. The feeling of satisfaction of a job well done and a lot of money saved makes it worth it.
Ford likes labor rates. Ever try to change a $6 sparkplug on a 5.4 triton? $600 later you finally get it out and new threads
Yeah man it’s ridiculous, except the compressor and condenser have already been done and the part isn’t $20 it’s $1200, so this AC repair is probably closer to $4,000 or $5,000…
I had to replace the mixer door, came with a kit, drimmel out a square access hole, replace all the stuff then use aluminum tape to patch the hole, worked perfect
I changed my evaporator on my Silverado the same way! Just cut a rectangle hole out of the box with a Dremel, slid the old evaporator out, slid the new one in, and put cut piece back in with aluminum tape. Took about 1hr for total repair! Works perfect!
@@IndustMachWerksofTX I'm not a mechanical expert but cutting out some sort of 'access panel' as he was going over what was required was my first thought as well - good to know my intuition wasn't off the mark.
Exactly the same thing we did with my son's F150 and Explorer to change the mixer damper motor
Yes I think cutting an Access hole is the way to go, might try plastic epoxy to patch it back up.
YES I did that on a Volvo to remove a heater core
You could probably do a procedure like GM has you do in a service bulletin on a lot of Silverados. You use something like a 1 1/4” hole saw to make a hole in the box, change the sensor through that hole, then put a plug into the box and silicone it in. Very easy process and looks like it would work on this one too. Just make sure you do it high enough as to not leak from the water that drains off of the evaporator core.
Remember, the part is only available with the complete box. Now I have spend $1100 on the part it's best to install it wouldn't you think?
@@dickmick5517 well im sure the extra 10hrs of labor cost would help you make your mind up real quick..
@@dickmick5517 You can actually just buy the sensor for another ford (can’t remember the one) and drill a small hole in the box and toss it in and seal it up. 15 min and 30 bucks in your driveway fixed.
@@dickmick5517 if you cannot find the sensor online, just go to a junkyard and get it from there - knowing ford, the sensor is likely generic enough to find in all kinds of vehicles.
@@dickmick5517 for $1100 and 10.8 hrs of labor, you definitely can figure out with a resistance decade box what resistor causes what temp value by the ECU (scanning it at the same time), and figure out what Digikey/Mouser PTZ temp sensor would closely emulate that. And far less, "WE'RE GOING TO TAKE APART YOUR *ENTIRE DASHBOARD*" 😆
I would have found an F150 in a pick-a-part salvage yard, verified that the sensor was likely good by checking the resistance, cut access thru the plastic case and removed the sensor. Then installed that sensor in your f150 in the way you originally planned. (This is why engineers should be required to do long apprenticeships in assembly and repair before they are allowed to design anything.)
That is the same way with a lot of new appliances . It's a bunch of " bull " that they get designed like that . That's one of the reasons that I love the older Ford trucks and a few things on those aren't bad enough . I have 2 - 1987 F-150, 1 - 1988 F-150, 1 - 1991 F-150, 1 - 1995 F-150, and 2 - 1996 F-150 trucks .
I was thinking the same thing .. Cut a tiny access port... Glue it back it call it good
Dang right
The trick is to build a temp sensor with the right resistance range (very simple electronics and cheap too). Then package that up on the end of a fat plastic threaded rod with the wires embedded in the plastic. Sell that as a kit on ebay. The mechanic just drills a hole in the plastic casing then glues a nut to the casing around the hole. Screw in the temp sensor rod until it touches the evaporator and plug in the harness. Done! If Ford engineers had the brains that evolution gave to a goldfish they would have designed it that way. Or maybe they just like to keep their dealers in work.
But i think their job is to engineer MONEY for the company so they keep their job. If the designed everything to be able to be reached within 30mins to an hour, the dealerships wouldnt make nearly as much money.
Much respect for your knowledge and skill in performing this repair.
I admire his patience the most! I couldn't do it while I trying to record the video. Would definitely have A LOT of editing and over-dubbing! LoL!
Your level of patience is extraordinary. You should really consider doing something like this for a living.
Got to love engineers! We deal with the same problems on commercial HVACR. Sensors are always buried. A failure item should always be easily accessed. Engineers should have to disassemble what they create. Spend a couple years in a garage with rusty cars. Have a great day. Stay safe and be well.
Great point and totally agree
Don't blame the engineers - there's several layers of managers and bean counters who are largely to blame for the lack of servicability.
The logic will go like this: "how many of these will fail within the warranty period" if too many: "can this component be made not to fail within the warranty period?" if no: "can we make that part easy to replace?" and finally: "does the cost of designing it to be easy to replace exceed the projected cost of warranty repair?".
Ultimately design engineers within the automotive industry are pressured to remove cost and simplify manufacturing and warranty maintenance - anything outside of that is secondary.
@@Chlorate299 tons of these "bullet" sensor are failing these days. Its called mass production. And damn skippy we can blame engineers. Who sat behind the computer and said yes it will go there?
@@FlyEaglesFly19111 Again... it doesn't work like that, not every little component *needs* to be easily replaceable, if they were then the car would be covered in little access ports to give people access to components that may never fail during the lifetime of the vehicle (and bear in mind this truck is over 10 years old at this point). When the designers are tasked with making everything as cheap to assemble as possible, to the point of even minimising the number of threaded fasteners used, it really isn't their fault if a mechanic over a decade down the line has a bad day.
@@Chlorate299 that little component that you deem "not important" is responsible for thee entire HVAC control. As it was duly noted by the origin of the video it was thee sole culprit for the compressor to grenade from out of specification operation. If a system is designed on the higher side of medium temperature; then is running at low temperature freezing castrophy is surely without question going to happen. That little "non important" part just caused a consumer big bucks in 2 ways non the less. Hey but your right and I'm wrong.. what do I know being 30yrs in the HVACR field fixing and correcting engineering ooopsies.
The longer I watch, the more I appreciate my 50 year old C20! Granted, I'm not looking forward to pulling the wiper motor someday, but I garantee it won't take THIS long!
My truck was identical to that F150. It somehow caught on fire after being diagnosed with the same problem as this one. I felt liberated.
Wow that was amazing to watch. How you remember how to put these things back together is well beyond my capabilities.
It’s only goes back one way. So it’s easier than you think when you have to figure it out
the actual hard part is finding all the screws
My trick is plastic bags with labels.
@@jonathanjuillerat9831 I do the same, especially when doing engine swaps. I also add the socket size/type as well.
@@jonathanjuillerat9831 same here. Done this job twice on different cars.
10:20 speaking of science, Ray's experiment with the temp sensor didn't fail. It succeeded in giving him a result that he was hoping not to get.
You deserve an award for this job. I think it would be nice to tour the factory and watch how they put them together. Great job!
Seems like a good part of the time involved in a lot of theses repairs is devoted to getting crap out of the way.
Wow you got three bots on yours!
And did you have the impression that mechanics would be anything different?
Holy cow bud. My respect to you for remembering how to put it back together and which bolts go where. Great video to watch so far 👍👍
This man knows his stuff when it comes to working on any vehicle
You are an amazing man. I could never remember all the parts or even how to take it apart much put it back together and a honest man and I enjoy your sense of humor.
Un-freaking-believable amount of work for that job. Nice work Ray.
Two things come to mind: You are incredibly smart and skilled at your job! You make it look easy. Having replaced a heater core on a European car, I know it’s not. Second, shame on the car manufacturers for not building product that are easier to service. It’s obvious this was designed for ease of assembly and low cost, not to be serviced.
I remember the old days when the core could be accessed through the firewall in the engine compartment. That made sense. Swap took about an hour tops. This design is stupid but definitely planned.
This video deserves more likes. Oh my god , what a job, you are a brave man.
My anxiety is through the roof watching this tear down and wondering how in the F is this all going to go back together. You've got some skills Ray!
It will never again be as tight as it once was from the factory. Nope.😆.
@@steveo601 Don't worry, Ray believes in Tightening stuff!
@@steveo601 Didn’t you hear Ray say “click”?? 🤣
He has a video record to reverse the disassembly. I'd never attempt removing this many parts and screws at once without some video documentation.
No way I would ever get this back together. Kudos to you for taking on this job!
Replaced my sensor in my f250 in 45 minutes...one inch sq hole in case...made little metal door, then covered door with hvac tape
Get a scrap evap from the junkyard, poke the sensor in anywhere it reaches, and go have a cold one.
I was thinking the same thing, but would he have to demo the whole dash in the junk yard to get it?
Hell yes ! It's only a piece of junk ford truck -
@@Frank-og9jp if he was only after the sensor he could just cut a hole in the junk box to get it out
Good plan. In this instance, I believe the compressor etc. were being replaced under warranty after repeat failures. Even considering as likely as it is that this sensor failure was the cause of the mechanical failure, there's still the risk that the compressor would go out again and then have a warranty claim denied because they blamed a non-standard repair to the sensor. By then, who knows who is working on the vehicle or if they even care to prove that the previous sensor repair actually worked so the issue must have been another defective compressor. There's a lot of CYA or really, cover the customer's a-- in some of these jobs, to make it pretty and do it by the book just to protect the warranty on the big stuff.
Watching this definitely solves any doubt on keeping my '94. Replaced my heater core recently, took an hour.
Right behind the glove box. Easy as pie!
I have great respect for you being able to remove and install that dash. What a job and a half.
One of our buildings has a tall atrium with a lot of windows. One of the windows exploded a few years ago (tempered glass). The Architect was asked how these were supposed to be replaced( 70 or so feet up). He replied "they aren't supposed to break" I'm guessing the engineers figured the RTD wouldn't fail. They generally are pretty reliable.
This brought back memories from when i did a 1999 town car dash removal for a heater core and evap. repair, customer came in when I had it all apart and said it was going to rattle when done, sorry it went together smoothly and had no rattles. thanks for the memories, love your videos keep it up. I am retired now so remember there is life after all this craziness.
You are my hero and an inspiration for many hands on professions world wide 👍👍👍
😁🤙
My kingdom for a car company that would engineer an HVAC system that can be serviced without a dash-out scenario. Great job!
What a chore! Last year I had to get the evaporator core replaced on my 2017 Buick Enclave and, apparently, that also involved a complete dash disassembly. It was the first time the mechanic had done it on that particular model and mentioned what a pain it was, and after watching this I can now really sympathize!
I had to do one these jobs a few years ago. Blown heater core. Anti freeze everywhere in the car. Carpets in the front were soaked. Even had to remove the seats. Took me 2.5 days about 20 hours.. Brutal job but i got it done. 68.00 part. The cheapest one was 28.00. By profession i was a high sschool English teacher. Saved myself at least 1200.00. Ive done a couple of head gaskets, timing belts and lots of brakes. It's pretty rewarding and enjoyable after the fact.
I really appreciate what mechanics do. Not an easy job..
Btw the car was a 94 Jetta. I got almost 400,000 kms on it when it gave up the ghost.
Outstanding repair video, and outstanding patience.
I do not envy you sir. I have taken 90's Mustangs apart but would never attempt these new ones. Hats off to you!
Good lord what a huge job... Your patience is admirable.
Cut in to the box and around the area of the sensor, pull out the sensor and then repair the plastic box with some good glue and a bit of plastic, job done and time to get a coffee or just slide in to another part a new temp sender.
Yep....dremel cut a section of that housing and epoxy it back after replacing the sensor.....ghetto but way easier than that teardown
Ummm...pretty sure Ray said the sensor does not come as a single component. The sensor comes as part of the core and is not a stand alone part hence the need to replace the whole unit.
That's what I was thinking, just cut a big hole, replace the sensor and then JB Weld the old piece back in.
@@mupdog9697 Electric temp sensors are all resistance based and pretty standardized. That sensor he got would have worked, He just needed to add a few ohms to the circuit to calibrate it. Chances are that is all that is in that black plastic sensor box. A standard temperature probe with a resistor to throw it out of whack, and then corrected through software.
@@mupdog9697 Sensors are just resistors, nothing special or magical.
I had an 86 Sable that the heater core started leaking. Ford said it was a 10 hour job. I could not afford the labor, so I did it myself. After the dash was out, I plugged off all the vacuum hoses with golf tees, started the engine, and moved the car to a different part of my driveway.
Took me a little over 9 hours, but everything worked when it was back together. Ended up with only 2 small screws left over.
2 extra screws ,mmmmm , extra part means "Over Engineered" 😵
Did you do the ole’ atmosphere refrigerant evac in the driveway?
@@craiglyles4755, The A/C probably leaked out. Don't think they were sealed that good back then. Just a guess though. Also, might have been heat only.
@@Embermist69 I had a 85 sable and put Barrs leaks in the cooling system and fixed the heater core leak …
Did the same thing with a 79 Lincoln
The air conditioner was not working at the time, and I didn't recharge it afterwords.
I had tried Bars Leak previously and it did not stop leaking.
OVER ENGINEERED, I like that statement.
Wow! What a bummer. Glad the world has guys like you Ray! Amazing what you can do. Keep up the awesome good work. Keep smiling 😊 buddy
Great job Ray. I don't know how you do it. I get overwhelmed just watching you. I would have so many bolts in wrong places, unless I bagged and marked each set, I'd have broken every clip possible also. The thing would be a rattle trap if I had to put it back together.
A little bit of colored paint would help too, especially if you're just going to lay them all over the place like Ray did. Colored paint on the screw head, colored paint over/around the hole. Some colored fingernail polish set may do the job.
I don't know what over engineered garbage sensor ford use in this, But Electric Temp Probes do not tend to go bad unless they are met with extreme conditions, such as temperatures way out of specification, being exposed to the elements, or a sharp knock. Even then, they can be engineered to handle it. 3D printer sensors survive hours at 150/200 C+ temps. This thing that only needs to handle human comfortable conditions should never die... Yet it seems to be a common problem
That temp sensor could easily just be installed through a port in the box with a thread and bolt to snug it down... This is blatantly been done this way to inflate service time and gouge money, this is confirmed by the fact that they only sell it as a Compleat unit for a broken jelly bean part.
While I completely agree they should make sensors that last, I will say, AC evaporators are kind of a lousy environment sometimes. If air ducts get blocked, they can freeze up with ice, then hopefully re melt happily. Also, there is always condensation in there sometimes pooling if drains get clogged. But you are correct, they should figure out how to make one not fail.
See my comment about the 1990 Ford Taurus....
@Qefna Ija me too.
@@fyx812 Sorry man. Was scrolling for ages with ctrl + f trying to find you in the comments, but i can't see it. 😓
I don't know what you work on, but thermistors and diodes as electrical components fail quite often.
That is just insane the amount of work just for that sensor. A good money maker for Ford right there.
A week after this job is done, "i've now got this rattle under the dash!!!"
Very true.
Anybody seen my 3/8" socket?
@@theephemeralglade1935 10mm. It's always a 10mm.
I howled at this reply! HA HA HA Yeah it's coming out of that black box with the sensor in it! Some practical joker put some Mexican Jumping Beans in it. Sealed it up.
After taking dashboard apart keeping a fire extinguisher in the vehicle is mandatory!!
Some times I must admit that I feel kinda sorry about some of the jobs you get handed. This one feels akin to some of my bad days at work, where it is normal to feel like saying "Geez, thanks, like I didn't have anything else useful to do with my time today." You have my sympathy as well as my gratitude for documenting the things you do at work. 👍🙂
What a pain😖 I have a new RESPECT for you and those who've chosen this as their career. Your knowledge base and trouble shooting skills are 👍👍👍👍👍😺🤗🐺
I've had two cars recalled for dash covers (a 1999 Olds and a 2005 Lexus) that required complete dash removals, which makes more sense in those cases than this truck, but my point was - the Olds dealer took 6 weeks to complete the repair and the Lexus dealer took 4 weeks. So, pretty amazing Ray turns this job around so quickly.
Replacing the dash takes about 3 hours. Getting the parts is what takes forever. I was working for Lexus during the dash replacement periods, and our dealership was getting the cars in, getting approval, ordering the dash and sending the cars back out until the dash came in. Seems kinda silly to hold on to the cars, waiting for the parts. There's a long wait on parts like that, because they had to put the parts back into production, and were not going to produce any more than they needed. The job itself I can literally do blindfolded. Evaporator core is a little more involved.
some cars are even quicker to rip the dash out, my 05 ford Territory ( Australian model) I can rip out in an hour. 4 bolts holding the dash, 4 on the steering colum and 5 plugs
@@gore1978 07-12 ES350 dash pays 2.9 hours warranty, start to finish. Whoever came up with that time, was on the money. I've probably done well more than a hundred. Remove, transfer over A/C ducts, wire harness and other parts to the bare dash, and back in, and I could barely beat the warranty time. I would like to have a serious talk with the guy who came up with the warranty evap replacement though. That paid 3.2 hours warranty time, and I think the fastest I could ever get that done was 4 and a half hours. And there was something wrong with the 07-08 evap cores and half of them started leaking within regular warranty, and a bunch of them still within certified extended warranty periods. Glad to not be in a dealership and doing warranty work anymore.
@@KillaCiViC1181 I think they do the time based off the car being on the line with the front screen out or having most of the tools already set and other interior out. who knows.
The territory I have is close to the American Escape and 2 plugs in each kick panel, 1 bolt either side of the dash A pillar and the dash has the hook clip, 1 allen key head in the centre of the top and 1x bolt on the trans tunnel to strip the dash out. Some guys got to a point of cutting away the firway where the heater core sits so its slide in and out system which is our biggest fail part with the blend door motor rods. T
he evap core seems to hold up.
Was thinking this one would have gone away and never come back
Guess the owner was in love with the vehicle 👍
I can’t believe the patience you have,without swearing 🤬
Considering the age of the vehicle and the amount of labor it took to access the evaporator core, would it be a good idea to talk to the owner about replacing a 50 dollar heater core also?
I'm getting set to replace the heater door flap in our 1999 Jeep Cherokee. As per other Jeep owners, Replace everting you can once you get the dash out, Next year you will be thanking last year you for that for sight. Will be replacing the evaporator core, heater core too and a few other things hidden back behind the dash.
I would've disconnected the whole thing and save a lot of money by switching to opening the windows on hot days.
@@adamreno3653 You must live in new york.
YES!!!
@@adamreno3653 I have 2/65 AC in my truck, and it never breaks down.. Actually I have 3/65 AC, as I have a rear window that opens too. Almost forgot about that upgrade.
Ray you must have a photograph memory all those screws that you take it out and tossing around in there you’ve got to have a photographic memory figure out where they all go to you are a hell of a mechanic buddy I wish you lived closer to where I live I’d be one of your best customers👍👨🏻🦳👍
Projects like these keep everyone coming back for more , adventures just a mistery novel, you need see it too the end.
Ray, I remember dealing with this same issue on a Ford Focus. There was actually a published resistance chart in Alldata that told you the resistance value for any given tpersture.
i bet you are the only one at your shop that could do that job. very good ask for a pay raise 😉
If the computer only gets a resistance from the probe, I wonder if ray could have adjusted the values with a resistor. I wonder if that would have been sufficient for most cases (I don’t know if the probe’s readings are linear or some curve).
@@kiseitai2 The actual component is probably a thermistor. What you suggest likely wouldn't work properly. If it's a simple thermocouple a resistor might work. Either way determining the value of that resistor would be a trial and error nightmare.
@@kiseitai2 It’s a negative temp coefficient sensor, resistance changes with temp, could install a rheostat and dial a resistance…or just manually cycle the compressor or do what most techs do and use a hole saw to replace the sensor and glue the cut out back in the evap case. A good trimmer can R&I that dash in around 3-4 hours, not a hard one like the old Mercedes that call for 22+ labor hours.
@@craiglyles4755 Not the neatest solution but it gets the job done!
Dash removal involves removing 6,038 bolts and screws, all different sizes and lengths. The fact that anyone keeps that straight, amazes the hell out of me !
Oh boy, I was a Ford tech. Thank you for reminding me of those glory days. They were actually pretty good years. Just complicated.
Parallel a couple resistors, say around 50 ohm to start on the leads. Adjust resistance as needed, or solder in an adjustable mini pot and adjust until its reading the right temp (ohm load).
that's assuming a systemic offset and the sensor is working fine otherwise. Big risk.
You know something about electronics. I agree but I'd start with an adjustable pot first (if I had one) and once I found the resistance I needed I'd get the necessary resistors and put them in. Of course I would probably have cut the HVAC box open trying to get to the sensor and then epoxied it back on before tearing the whole dash apart too. New vehicles are a pain.
that more than likely isn't going to work. doing so will correct the offset, but there is a good possibility that the scale (ohms/degree) is going to be different. it might be right at 70 degrees room temp, but be way off when its 40 degrees in the evap core.
Those sensors have a range of resistances related to temperature, and that range differs between different sensors. So adding or subtracting a fixed resistance may not work.
then it still doesent read the temperture tho.
I've done quite a few of those, never removed the seats to do one. Just lay the dash on the seats and pull the box, takes me 3-4 hrs start to finish.
I love doing dash jobs on trucks as long as they aren't filthy or the plastic is so brittle it crumbles when you touch it.
Tx--Sir, you have much more Patience than Most...
You do make a valid point. As far as dash boards go, this one is very easy. He took apart all kinds of things he didn't have to. It shouldn't take more than an hour to roll the dash.
I think It depends on your brain , your's finds a quicker way to the prize as Ray calls it ,nice work.
@@bluethunder4542 He's right. You remove the floor console, but there's absolutely no reason to take the dashboard completely out of the vehicle. That's on most cars, not just the F150.
That said, you are correct. When you do the same job all the time, speed will increase. Its also a good example as to what type of tech you want to be. The work you do at a dealership is far more technical than in an independent shop. (Not always, but for the most part.). I hate doing things like brake jobs, wheel bearings, suspension work, etc.. I'd much rather rebuild engines, pull dash boards, electrical diagnostic, ... One isn't better than the other, it just comes down to what you like to do.
Your videos remind me of how much I hate working on cars/trucks. They are not repair friendly at all and I don't see how repair shops find qualified techs. My hat is off to you!
When you mentioned blend door actuators, it was like reliving a nightmare! Those bloody cheap nasty plastic Ford parts constantly going click, click, click because the internal plastic gears were broken and the ac system kept trying to turn them. A major exercise and expensive to replace on a Ford Expedition with yet another cheap plastic component that lasted on a couple of months!!
What a fantastic design, Ford are to be commended for their ingenuity...
its everyone...
My old boss told me to cut the wires and solder in a 39K-40K ohm resister in order to trick the module into thinking it is 70 degrees. I took a couple of hours, but WORKED! The compressor cycled like it was supposed to. I know it was a hack thing to do, but the A/C blew at 46 degrees, and I was just following orders! (Saved the customer almost $1000)
I remember my first day at Nissan. I had a Sentra needing a new evaporator. Knowing GM cars this was going to be a pain. With some guidance I had the evaporator out in 20 minutes.
Engineer's who design these systems should be made to work on them for a few months. If that would happen, I would bet that sensors placed in inaccessible locations, would be placed in locations that are accessible very quickly!
Engineers are frustrated by these things just as much as you or I. The real problem is that the engineers don't get to work on the project until AFTER the designers are finished. Blame the design staff.
@@Stefonius They could have put the sensor up higher on the evap core. They could have added a screw on window to the box. The could have made it accessible by pulling the blower motor. There are MANY ways this could have been prevented. This isn't a design issue. Its a example of something that wasn't worked on. It was not brought to the drawing board at all.
It failed outside of Fords warranty coverage, the engineers succeeded.
@@davebiglin8684 Things like this a remembered, and cost future sales.
@@G-ra-ha-m Can't cost future sales if every company does it. This is why these conglomerate car companies are so bad. It allows them to remove any competition while still claiming there is any. New players on the market can't get in without pulling equal or worse bullshit. Unless forced to split apart they will continue to get worse.
Dude what a job. Well done. Wish you were working in my town. You would do all my work
Pro tip: When it comes to re-installing that last bolt that gravity'd onto the floor at the end; if a helper monkey is unavailable, you can use a small, flat magnet on the other side to hold the bolt in place while threading on the nut. A neodymium rare earth magnet is usually the best for this application, and personally, I use magnets out of old hard drives I've torn down because they work best for this use.
I rip the magnets out of microwaves and speakers also, for a variety of helpful applications...
Or. You can magnetize all the sockets.
@@eaglewarrior8707 make your entire toolbox a magnet
I scored a large box of old hard drives years ago. I tore them all apart for the magnets and the platters (I make wind chimes out of the platters). I must have a hundred hard drive magnets of all sizes and strengths, and I never run out of uses for them.
Yeah you should see the exhaust shop I went to somehow they get bolts on the inside of the frame I don't know if they use magnets They go through tiny holes on the frame I just don't know how I guess they even use a coat hanger tied around the bolts to get in the hole hold it in place screw it on and then rip the coat hanger out I don't know
You gain some appreciation for the engineering that went into this, all those pieces that have to mesh and fit perfectly together.
I gain disrespect for the idiots who completely overlooked serviceability in their design. This is poor engineering exemplified.
@@P_RO_ ,
that's when something eventually goes wrong, you can buy really expensive cars for a pittance !!
Restoration of really expensive cars is worth it, but run of the mill 'shitboxes', no way !!
right, because an access panel in the top of the dash, with easily accessible fasteners, was obviously too sophisticated for the intelligence level of said egineers.
this is planned obsolescence, personified. there is no good take from this ridiculous layering of parts, no justification for it. it's either mediocrity, ignorance or most likely purposeful. none of which make the engineers look good.
@@TSoneonetwo Its designed that way purposely and u are a fool if u think it isnt on purpose.
@@TSoneonetwo Did you finish ur TPS reports?
You’re the best info/entertainment on both sides of the Mississippi
How do you remember where everything goes back together with what fasteners? I'm amazed at your expertise.
He he records it with a camera, maybe?
Time to get the sawzall out and make quick work of that dash! More "interference engineering"!
Put all this crap in the bed and push it out and no charge .
Had this on my 2010 fusion. Fortunately there was a recall on a part right next to it when mine when bad. They made me pay for the part that was not in the recall and just swapped it out for free because they were right there for the recall. Thank God. Job called for 10 hours and I didn't feel like tearing apart the dash.
I am convinced that the engineers that design vehicles have a vendetta against service technicians
Engineers have forgotten the #1 rule.
Keep It Simple Stupid.
They are Literally the definition of College Educated Idiots.
Ray, I did the same to my 1976 Ford Club van. I was totally worn out when I was finished. You rock with all you do. Is there anything you won't tackle?
Gotta love Ford! My dealer had to drop the entire engine cradle down (engine, trans, front suspension) to replace the water pump in my 13 Explorer 3.7L. Yay! They banged it out in less than a day....its a frequent repair!
You just know that on the assembly line they swung that whole dash into place in one piece. Someone knows an easier way. I’d never be able to get all those pieces back together, and there would be rattles in the dash that would never go away. You just know there will be rattles. Best Regards dude
Yep and the windshield wasn't installed either at that time, hence easy access to those bolts through the top of the dash.
It's probably the first interior part to go in during assembly.
My worst nightmare, squeaks and rattles from behind the dash that i cannot get to and fix.
@TFC exactly what I was thinking. Wtaf was Ford thinking. Why could they bot incorporate a little access point in that Air box. Nothing worse than creak,clank,duff,whilst driving especially after a repair job. Grrrr. Respect to Ray. I would of put wrong size fixings and probably 101 other components in wrong way. So much so gasoline and a match would of been a better tol with a most satisfying outcome.
Exactly what I just said I'd never keep track of all those bolts, I'd have them in the wrong places, or missing lol. And a bunch of broken clips which all together would equal rattle trap lol.
A simple inspection cover would have been such a brilliant idea from the designer/engineer. But no... [oh, and a sensor that's separate from the condenser]
The engineers or engineer who designed this should have to repair one of these. Or he should be castrated on public TV.
Had a similar problem with our washing machine. 1 dremel cutting wheel later -- Voila!: Access Panel.
10 to 1 it was a bean counter decision. Putting in an access panel and removable sensor mount would cost darn near 20 cents!
@@TheWabbit No kidding. That would of been too smart to do. .
Well that’s because the temp sensor happens to be the problem. There are like 50 other things back there, too, that could need to be accessed. Engineering a design to allow access to all, without pulling the dash, would be impossible.
I have an f150 from the same generation and I was screaming at the phone "Go from the TOP!" while you were trying to get to those large bolts by taking our the instrument cluster. Lol good work man. I had to do this in a 2012 ram and had to pull the dash too. What a pain in the ass.
How many screws do you have left over after a job like this? I would never get it all back the way it was! You my friend are an expert!
He had two left over. One he put in his shirt pocket, and one he forgot in the door. Both came from where the dash bolts to the firewall.
Just a suggestion, could you not have added resistors in series or parallel to the new probe to match the resistance value on the existing probe?
He probably could, but it's a liability on his company, since the resistors aren't tested for durability on the road. If he worked out of the back of a truck and was unlicensed, sure, that could be an option
I don't think it would work properly- the sensor sends a signal as the temperature changes and that regulates how often and how long the compressor engages. If the sensor has failed and is sending a fixed resistance signal all the time, then an inline resistor would only send a reduced signal, not a variable one. So it would still be doing the same thing, but at a lower rate.
@@oldschool1993 hes talking about the new probe with unmatched resistance ranges
do what i did just cut old one out plastic and all change Senser then jb weld it all back in
@@itech301 Yeah, that could work if the new probe had a similar value- when you dial in the temp on the dashboard the ECU looks for a certain resistance, and if it is too high or too low it turns on the compressor until the resistance reaches the level it wants, then turns off the compressor. If the resistance value of the new probe was higher than the original, you could put a resistor in line to bring it down. If it is lower, you would be stuck with temperatures that don't match what you dialed in.
Patience is virtue! You must have the patience of ten men
Thanks Ray for the video. I have done this repair a few times, so it's interesting how others have done it, as I appreciate tips from others.
This is not a criticism, as it is a bigger job, but I would highly recommend reviewing the removal procedure in the work shop manual, as many un-necessary parts were removed to get this apart. I know this is a way to learn, but it saves time, especially knowing what fasteners and connectors need to be removed.
Just a few disassembly tips for this repair, that may help others, especially on the Supercrew model.
If you fold up the second row rear lower seats up, you can then unbolt both front seats and keep them in the truck by sliding them back in the cab. Then the center console main attaching bolts can be removed very easily as they are on the lower sides. This then allows you to place the console in the back of the cab also.
Now the carpet can be pulled back, with some trim removal and the lower rear heat floor duct can be removed relatively easily.
After disconnecting several electrical connectors, a few brackets and the lower steering column pinch bolt, the entire dash can be removed with the complete steering column.
As Ray pointed out, you don't want to turn the steering wheel much with it disconnected, as the air bag clock spring can get damaged.
Hope this helps.
Personally, I would have been looking for a thermistor that was closer in value and/or using resistors to fine tune it. Probably one available from Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, etc..
Reminds me of my VW Passat heater core replacement. 10 hours to get to the heater core. It was the first thing installed at the fire wall. A dream job for sure
I think I would have just figured out what resistance value range was required for the sensor and installed appropriate electronic components to achieve those values. Mr. Carlson's Lab style.
@Joby Fluorine So, you admit you know absolutely nothing about electronic devices or how they are developed or how they actually work. Actually I work on the machines used to build cars. But I doubt you know anything about that either.
I think I'd be inclined to install an extra senor alongside the new one and just leave the plug hanging out, next time it goes, simple disconnect & reconnect.
Exactly what I was thinking. No sane customer would have the interior pulled apart with 8 extra hours of a labour bill to have it removed. Beyond silly that this is made & sold this way.
Sensor not available
@@tomweir3857 The sensor is certainly available from the manufacturer. It just isn't available from Ford.
I pulled the dash on our VW Passat 1996, years ago,for replacing the heater core leak... I was impressed how the stuff is put together, wiring harness, snap together, wires exact sizes to be where they should, lot going on under there...it took a few days cus i worked slow, not to snap plastic snaps and stuff, heater core was list price $140...on sale for $8.98, for real, OEM, cus it was past 10 years, they wanted to get it out of stock...and it all worked no more leaks, and all the electrical worked, steering wheel need a new use once bolt, which dealer had in stock...that's why dealers get a lot of labor charges, all labor
My eyes glazed over and I went into a light coma watching the "pile" grow larger and larger... If I was doing that job my chances of putting that dash back in successfully would probably be hovering around the zero mark...
Hey Ray, I work for a fleet operation that has a bunch of f150s like that. About 2 months back I had to replace an entire hvac box/case due to one of the mode door actuators ticking and the driver "kicking the box to make it stop". Which obviously destroyed the actual box. Gotta love that, right? Definitely involved, but overall not very difficult in my opinion.
That being said, great video. That being said, thank you for sharing this and all your daily work adventures.
I would off used a ossilating tool to cut 3 sides so you could of just opened it then re epoxyed it shut. You would think they would off made a small door.
Yep, I was thinking Dremel with a round blade to cut an opening. 😁
Problem here is that Ford doesn't sell the sensor and only sell the whole evaporator with the sensor built in, which is stupid but you can't replace only the sensor.
If it was my car I would have used that other sensor he tried at the beginning and find a way to emulate the original sensor's response, would probably be worth a few dollars of electronic components at most, but that's a hack you can't pull on a customer's car.
Ford may not sell the sensor but they're available. Dremel a hole and try a few if you have to or modify the resistance of the new one to match what it's supposed to be. There should be resistance values at certain temps available.
Andrew ROBINSON -Thank is a superb idea
My thought too. There must be an after market temp sensor available with the same spec !
I wonder how many transit parts you'll have left after reassembly!
This doesn’t look bad! I had to take the dash out of my Passat to change an air duct director flap motor and it was essentially the same job, everything was just 2/3 the size and German. Ray here’s got it easy.
That's exactly why I'm scrapping my passat. Wiring loom issues buried in the dash. It's an old car and it's far easier to replace the car