Bad News For ITA Airways
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- Опубликовано: 30 мар 2023
- ITA Airways has posted severe losses for 2022, recording almost a net loss of 600 million USD. The airline still has big plans for the next couple of years but are cracks already showing for an airline that took over from Alitalia, a carrier already plagued by issues?
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I just absolutely love their livery and their a350 especially
Good news for ITA airways. Their livery is beautiful.
Until they find a partner with the cash needed to succeed AZ will flounder by.
Hopefully LH will help them become stable.
ITA will also benefit greatly from the UAL domestic feed and codeshares once they are absorbed by LH Group.
The two most opposite mentalities within Europe
The problem is there's lot of competition in Italy Market especially in domestic. High Speed tains and other transportation are making difficult in Aviation sector in Italy. The only profitable in aviation are the International flights.
And even there, I've never met a single Italian who used ITA to fly internationally. We always use either Ryanair or Wizz.
Thanks Mate 👍
The only way I personally see ITA surviving long term is being 100% part of Lufthansa Group, what is luckily planned in the future. They know how airlines can be profitable and can adjust capacity easily by moving around airliners around to fit the market just like they are doing every year. For example, the current ITA A350s can’t be profitable in the hands of ITA, but A330 can, so those could theoretically be swapped. Furthermore, I desperately hope they retake the Alitalia name and branding as it not only fits a flag carrier better, but the current blue livery would make it more difficult to rebrand planes within LH Group as all major carriers use the same type of white as a base.
Does that may mean ITA will leave SkyTeam?
@@annoyingguyoninternet1631 as long as LHs stake will remain at 40%, they’ll remain at SkyTeam, but if Lufthansa Group takes the majority in ITA, I’m certain they will become a member of Star Alliance just like every other full service carrier in the group. This procedure is quite common, just look at the Air Europe/IAG or Korean/Asiana takeovers currently in the making.
@@falafelraffel8140 I can imagine LH merging ITA and Air Dolomiti once that happens, maybe with AD as a regional feeder brand. Can't see LH Group running two full service italian airlines. Yeah there's Swiss and Edelweiss, but those two airlines operate in different market segments.
As long as they remain consistent with their money saving strategies, don’t go too lavish pleasing one clientele portfolio. They could humbly navigate that austerity edge without completely falling into a low cost carrier model. Customer service is prime and acknowledging issues immediately could save them from important brand image damages. They do have a little advantage for taking over recently and jumpstart Italy international civil aviation.
There is still a good deal of domestic short distance service that might better be moved by rail as well as the perpetual instability of the Italian economy as well as large amount of service provided by low cost carriers.
Being a SkyTeam member, I was really hoping DL or the AF/KLM group could take them over, or at least become an equity partner. LH is big enough.
Why you add headache to your company ?
These losses are in accordance to the business plan. They planned to loose ~€450 mil in 2022 and they lost €480 mil (operating losses were way better than what budgeted, but higher fuel prices and unconvenient EUR/USD hiked the overall losses) Next year they plan to halve the losses (~€200/250mil), in 2025 to break-even and in 2026 to profit
I wonder if their $600 million loss is due to buying brand new A350's, A330Neo's and A320Neo's? If so, they would be fine in the next 5 -10 years if they can provide consistent high quality passenger service across such a new and modern fleet.
While most people would read ITA Airways as individual letters, the airline refers itself as ee-tah as the short of Italia. Quite confusing when you consider most people read EVA Air as ee-fah like a lady name when the airline itself read it as individual letter E-V-A Air.
Having read several comments, and considered everything, I find myself in agreement with those doubting the place of A350 and 777 sized aircraft in the ITA Airways fleet. As they are a carrier of similar size to say TAP Air Portugal, midsized widebodies like the A330 and 787 are better suited to them and their customer base than the larger A350 and 777, as the smaller aircraft have the range to serve key existing long haul destinations, while having a smaller seating capacity and consequently higher load factors than similar numbers of flights flown by A350 sized aircraft. Especially for such a new and relatively unestablished carrier, this would mean somewhat lower operating costs. With the airline already operating the A330, the A330neo would have been a suitable choice for newer more fuel efficient widebodies. With Lufthansa about to take a stake though, depending on the size of the stake it could lead to a shift in fleet strategy, or simply better allocation of the current fleet.
ITA has the A330neo on the order.
@heidi Rabenau Thank you for the information, but note what I am saying about the A350's place in ITA's fleet, the A330neo is a better fit for the type of carrier they are, and the A350 is too big.
@@josephaskins1996 absolutely their fleet is too complex.
I reply to your comment with the same answer I gave to a similar one: "The A350s are the strong part of their fleet. They provide cargo capacity and range that they need for South America and Japan. Flights to South America are the best performing, with sold seats already well over 80% from now through September. They increased frequencies to Sao Paulo from 7 per week to 10 per week. They should upgrade Buenos Aires as well in my opinion. Furthermore, the Italian market is the 4th largest in Europe." For your specific comment I add that ITA is actually covering most of their services with A330s (in the near future with the neos) while using the A350s only where strictly necessary: EZE, HND, LAX would be a too long of a stretch for the A330neos, and opting for 787s instead would mean adding excessive fleet complexity for just a couple of routes. The A350s work well with the A330s, and given the fact that A330s don't have enough range for selected missions, choosing the A350 over the 787 is actually a smart move, because they add little fleet complexity relative to the 787 and they can be used as capacity boosters on shorter routes as well, for example on JFK and MIA flights where load factors are pretty high year-round.
@@airplanewhat5316 agreed, and Alitalia had a great connections network, offering some well needed competition to Lufthansa’s hub in Frankfurt. Rome’s positioning is excellent and could easily compete with Frankfurt or Istanbul, if the vision in ITA is there
I love their a330
Hey EVA ordered another 5 dreamliners.... djs Slow
EU airlines almost all owned hy lufthansa if take over happens. Really three companies left lufthansa group( lufthansa, swiss, brussels, Ita, austrian), iag ( british airways, iberia and air Europa take over) , KLM and air France is really at disadvantage here
plus a handful of low cost carriers like Ryanair, Easyjet, Wizzair...
but it's true, the former flag carriers are mostly part of one of these groups.
What do they need the A350 for? The A330 would do just fine.
Increased payload, range and therefore, revenue.
An A350 can service Rome to Buenos Aires but an A330 doesn’t have that range.
@@mmscuf the A330-900 absolutely has the range for any of ITAs routes.
@@widget787 I just realized that and so, I stand corrected. The A330 900 can comfortably make the 6900 nautical mile range between Rome and Buenos Aires. So, can it simply boil down to reduced passenger load between the two types? Pure economics, in other words?
@@mmscuf the A350 has a even higher range, more Payload and Capacity. In other words: the A330-900 is 787 alike and the A350 is 777 alike. I doubt that there are many routes where ITA needs the additional capacity of the A350, and even if it's a few it is not enough to justify another fleet. And the range advantage over the A350-900 is not used too.
If they run into financial trouble again I see the A350 get dumped first.
personally i find that the comercial aviation industry in italy has always been bleek one, i dont ever see this changing unless a bigger airline takes ita under thier wing
ITA Airways has a beautiful livery and that's all it's going for.
What they need is a complete attitude change towards their passengers. Ground crew, check in and flight crew.
Three times I've flown with Alitalia and it's the same.
They lost me an never again.
Cathay Pacific, Qantas, British Airways and Singapore Airlines but no more Italian airlines.
Bring back the Alitalia name.
Let me think! As a Western Airlines employee I ask. Why is ITA repaintinging aircraft? It's big money. Why change interiors. Big money for airlines losing cash.
Oh come on. They'll go bust and be bailed out illegally. Again. It's not if it's when
It's Alitalia with a different suit.
Hope they get cash
At some point there will just be one European airline named Lufthansa or German airways or something
Bankruptcy is the soul of the markets.
Their biggest challenge is being an Italian airline…
Meaning what exactly…?
@@elaineblackhurst1509 For real. Italy is a country with a lot of tourism so what’s the exact problem?
@@luchsegamer8112 no one flies to Italy with an Italian carrier
but this could also be an upside - just think about how long Alitalia was operating, despite being in financial turmoil almost throughout its existence.
@@luchsegamer8112
More stereotypes; yes it has tourism, but it’s a member of the G7…
ITA should be privatised completely like Air India. Both were/are in similar situations.
However, Lufthansa is soon going to take over ITA and this could look better. Once Lufthansa Congress in, MSC will probably also be joining the party.
Nope MSC is defiantly out. They have the money but they are intelligent enough to see that in the mid-term it's hard to make money with them. This airline wouldn't fit very well in their current company situation.
What if they were to focus on Milan Malpensa as a hub, seeing as Milan is the economic capital of Italy and it would be good for business travellers. Not
Only that, Milan has superb onward connections for the rest of Europe
That would mean leaving the rest of Italy to the competition, and that doesn't mean just italians, but also tourism. People will always prefer direct flights to Rome, Venice, Florence Naples or wherever they are going for their holidays. As for Italians, they're not going to travel all the way to Milan to catch an Ita flight when they can catch a competitor's flight next door.
Angelo Milano would be actually better in terms of yields, business travelers and catchment area. The only problem is the following: Linate and Malpensa. There should be only one airport to make an hub-and-spoke model to actually work. That meant, we should actually be closing Linate for nearly a decade to ease the setting of an airline in Malpensa, connect this bigger airport with fast trains with cheap tickets, upgrade and renew the airport and just then a Malpensa-based airline would be highly successful. But no politician and no average italian would accept that, because in one hand we would have Rome completely pissed off for its secundary role, and on the other Milan would be pissed off (maybe a little less than Rome) because of its loving Linate, that now has the underground as well. So, as a compromise, we should really focusing on a big hub and spoke airline based in Fiumicino that, after being profitable, could expand to Malpensa with some long haul flights operated by small aircraft (A321XLR, 787-8, A330neo)
I think Milan should need more larger new airport, somewhere in south of Milan. LIN is closer but small size airport and can't make the expansion due to the adjacent of residential areas around LIN with 1 runway while MXP is much far from Milan and less convenient. I agree that Milan is a high yield destination with more population catchment area to support premium demand. If new Milan airport is build, i'm pretty sure that ITA Airways would make the new airport as their primary hub in northern Italy.
I use every opportunity to expres my disgust of the former Alitalia product. If ruined suitcases and a serious food poisoning, together with a ticket “ not in our system” is still not enough to dislike them, what more do you need ?
I have never believed in the ITA product. It is just the continuation of that old monster.
The best what can happen they collapse immediately. No take over, no part of a group. Just erase it from history. The short pain.
Their fleet is way too complex for their size. A320 family and A330-900 would absolutely do it for them ...
Eeek
Greek and Italian companies don’t know how not to go bankrupt. They also need to ditch the A350s for a better fleet
The a350’s are great? Either you’re a boeing baby or think they should stop using them because of finances
Agree, the 787 or even A330neo would have been a better fit. The A350 (and the 777) is too big for a midsize European carrier with a primary focus on short haul. Same issue @ SAS.
They don’t? Lmfao!
@@maxsaviation9512 Like other's have alluded to the A350 is to big for the Italian market. Realistically they should be using the smallest aircraft possible there's a lot more competition on flights to and from Italy compared to most countries.
@@jatterhog And Finnair unfortunately also has this issue.
Even more taxpayers money!
❤❤❤❤❤😘😘😎😎😎😊😊😊😊
Going AIR-BUST! Buy Boeing next time! Lol
Alitalia sorry ITA should order A320 family only, code share with Arab airlines or Turkish to the east and Lufthansa or BA to the west and that’s it. They are terrible in making any money
14billions on italian taxpayer across 20years…
Let German brains handle this. Where does ITA want to expand longhaul wise?
I guess where there is a sizeable Italian diaspora for starters
Isnt ITA Airways a budget? Last time I flew on it, the usual stuff are missing.
As others have said the A350 is to big, also I'm not sure Italy has much of a home market. Let me explain I have never seen an Italian on vacation here in the US. I've seen Germans, Scandinavians, French, Brits, but never Italian. Only Italians I've ever met were here on business for the Italian Air force. They just don't leave their country like other people, because very few of them can speak English, which is pretty much the universal travel language.
Has Italy ever had a successful airline?
Alitalia managed to hold on for 74 years so technically yeah.
@@LucaD-hp4kp Kind of easy to do when you are a state owned and funded airline and got the taxes of 60 million people to support you.