Factorio - The ABC's of Angel and Bob
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- Опубликовано: 29 июл 2024
- My 12 Top Tips for a slightly more harmonious Angel and Bob experience.
I have a lot of time buried in the Angel and Bob suite of mods and I have redesigned the whole factory from the ground up several times. The different versions may look similar but in them contain an incredible array of lessons that might be useful to the new and experienced users of A and B.
I'm never really 100% certain about these tutorial videos, I don't know whether I am speaking out of turn or if what I am saying is common knowledge, but I am more certain about this one than with the others.
I hope it is helpful, any questions or comments you know what to do. 
Игры
No idea why I watched this. RUclips just suggested it for some reason. I've never even played the game.
Don't get it. You will find it either 1) Uninteresting, and give up after a handful of hours at most, or 2) Very interesting, to the point of forgetting what a normal sleep cycle is. They don't call it "Cracktorio" for nothing.
And yet you still watched it...
@@jpheitman1 what's a normal sleep schedule?
This is the way
Play it
Another tip I'd have for managing metals is think of it in terms of 3 + 1 steps. Step 1 is sort the minerals into ores, step 2 is smelt the ores into ingots and step 3 is melt down the ingots into the various plates, sheets and coils. The +1 step is mining and crushing, where crushing on the mining site is viable if you create a dedicated train stop for dealing with crushed stone, but can be ignored if you decide to include crushing as part of the sorting step. separating
Processing and sorting minerals could also be split if you decide to focus on catalyst sorting.
Currently on a first run of A+B and your video gave me faith again. Looking at your base is eye=opening. I thought this was going to ba maybe 100 hours run, and now realize that I should revise my expectations. It's a daunting task, and I'm probably going to bust out the graph paper to map certain recepies, but woah.
I would reconsider your advice regarding fluids.
Fluids are not more viscous than they are in vanilla - the problem you're having is that you simply are managing higher quantities of fluids and gas, than you are in vanilla.
To understand how to deal with fluids, you need to understand the fluid mechanics on their basic level. In here, I'm going to explain how it works if you don't have "big pipes" enabled in Bobs settings (I recommend enabling it - it makes the game easier, but Vanilla fluid flow mechanics are really annoying to deal with, pointlessly so. It will still remain a challenge, just not excruciating one when dealing with high throughput).
A standard tier 1 pump corresponds to vanilla pumps; it can pump 3.6k fluids per second. This is a lot of fluid.
What the game doesn't tell you however is that this pumping only works at this capacity if it's pump to pump. Maybe pump to tank to pump, not entirely sure. But if it goes pump to pipe to pump, it already cuts down significantly the fluid flow. I believe the resulting flow will be somewhere 2.4k/second.
Now here's the kicker: pump - pipe - pipe - pump = halves the flow. From there it only gets worse, but you can see how with merely having 2 pipes consecutively means the fluid flow cuts off severely. You come across easily into situations where you want, for example, the piping to go a single tile left and then continue its trajectory forward. Easiest solution to this is to just do two pipes between two pumps. But this unfortunately cuts it down severely, so another solution is to do a bunch of pump - pipe - pump and pump - pump, have it loop a little.
It's really annoying how it works, but this is how it works. Bobs has a setting that can amend this by increasing pipe capacity. On its own higher capacity pipes don't do anything, but combined with pumps they create a flow similar to pump - tank - pump, which is higher than pump - pipe - pump, even if it might not reach pump - pump flow.
Another important part: you cannot restore flow to a previous level. You can only maintain a flow. If you have pump - pipe - pipe - pump, you can no longer restore the flow to the level of pump - pipe - pump, without introducing additional sources for the liquid down the path.
Last important note: pump - underground pipe - pump = pump - pipe - pump. Underground pipe, like underground belts, counts as a single entity. The fluid it holds is the same on both ends, so it acts more like a teleporter than an underground pipe. This is convenient for us, because it means that you can maintain the relatively high flow of pump - pipe - pump by using underground pipes.
It also means that underground pipes, whenever they can be used, are always more efficient than pipes. This is why you have to evaluate whenever you should use a long stretch of standard pipes or a single underground pipe, as you seem to have many long stretches of normal pipes. Even in low throughput situations, having multiple pipes can really clog things up, because they keep reducing the maximum flow significantly.
It should be obvious also why your solution "the squeeze" as you call it aptly, works here. You're cutting the amount of pipes from startpoint to the endpoint, thus not reducing the flow as much as you would if you had a single line of pipes snaking through. What you're doing is actually useful even in a proper liquid management setting, because it can allow you to combine multiple low-pressure lines into a single high-pressure line. This way, you don't need to have pumps in a setup that is snaking around, only in the output.
But at large, you need to use a lot of pumps and underground pipes. And to make your life less hell, use the big pipes mod setting in Bob mods.
Even with most optimal use of pipes, you may end up in a situation where your only solution is to use multiple pipes in parallel. I've run into this a couple of times myself already, but that was before I enabled big pipes. Now I can deal with 10k/s liquid input or output relatively easily with a single station and I'm using second tier pumps.
Wow. That is quite a comment.
I think what has happened here is that I tried out pipes and quickly decided that they didn't work (for whatever reason) and moved on to barrels. But you ploughed on through it and as a result have a much better understanding of what is going on. I learnt a lot there. Underground pipes particularly. If it didn't ruin my whole design aesthetic I would be replacing all my pipes with underground ones.
I think my advice stands though, for most people the pipes in angel and bob are a black box that are difficult to understand. Until I read your comment I wasn't 100% sure of why they didn't work for me.
Have you thought about doing a full pipe tutorial? I would definitely watch it
Why not use trains for large amounts?
@@QTwoSix Because trains don't change the nature of the problem; you have to get them into and out of the trains and it is easy to screw in that process.
I had no idea about that game option thank you. I was using modded small one block tanks going onto pumps to force high volume gasses into midpoint staging tanks. Had real issues getting oxygen to make my sulfer dioxide. Or ammonia for the hydrazine.
Worth noting that as of Factorio v2.0 (coming in October 2024) the way fluids move through pipes will be completely overhauled to be much less arcane, which should fix a lot of people's gripes with the old system (at the cost of a small amount of emergent complexity)
I like how you show footage of different versions of factorio. It brings back memories to see how the UI changed through the years!
Great video! I wish I watched it before my first bob's/angel's playthrough
Thank you, man! I enjoyed hearing your tips!
That's some really dense factory. Idk how you handle the issues arising after unlocking a new material processing options and your previous setups becoming suboptimal.
A lot of practice. For 3 years i only played factorio in angel and bob. I made a 2 hour video about the whole thing...
I made a massive city block style factory with Angels and Bob's with a mate. We have ~750 hours in it, but have just about everything automated.
The main mod besides Angels + Bob's that we used was LTN (Logistic Train Network). It was instrumental in organizing all of the thousands of different items that are in the modpack!
great video very well explained
I "only" used Bob's mod in my last playthrough and it was crutial to reach modules because once i had them going, i could focus entirely on speed/productivity modules. The moment you finish them you can pretty much cut down 95% of your factory, only use drones and have ridiculously quick machines going. Took about 120 hours to get there in my playthrough but i decimated my entire base down to a few machines per item
if you are gonna make little pools to put an offshore pump in, then may as well just get the pump anywhere mod and cut out the annoying part, and have it be more easily blueprintable.
also i basically always play with angelbob,madclowns space extension, expanded rocket payloads and a handful of mods for angels like extended smelting and casting, but also bio industries mod, which i generally use to make sulfuric acid, which if used primarily , makes sulfur and its waste water into much more of a waste product or to be used for other recipes. also i'm not a fan of the angels way of making trees/wood so bio industries also solves that . also i use yuoki industries for the huge power poles, its cool having a completely separate base that does yuoki stuff all just to make power poles.
If it's only s, not spm, then is it one of each building? You seem to have multiple buildings of the same type so you do calculate some ratios. Could you elaborate on this? How do you know how many of each building to build?
Good question.
I only really do research when I need to construct the next part of my factory in order to unlock the units I need to build. So I unlock a tech, build a thing and then unlock another tech, build the next thing etc. In between doing research there is a lot of time for the science ingredients to build up in the conveyor belts regardless of how quickly the factory is producing them. So when I need to unlock a tech I can rely on a quick burst of ingredients before one of them runs out, becomes critical and slows all the science down.
The science block I actually build is generally done to fit in a specific space in the factory, I don't really care how many assembly machines or labs there are, only that the proportion looks about right. At the end, when the whole factory is constructed, I research all the leftover techs one by one to identify the critical ingredients and try and improve the production rates of those ingredients to get a better science rate, but there is a limit on how far this can be taken. I then also use different speed assembly machines for different colour sciences to try and tune the setup so that they are all creating the science packs at similar rates.
At no point do I really care what SPM it is creating, it is generally just an exercise in squeezing as much out of what I had constructed and out of what space I had available to me. The bigger the setup the bigger the burst, the size of the science setup has no relationship to what the factory is actually producing.
All the best bases look like PCBs
If only it worked as quickly and efficiently as one
What is the mod that adds the magnifying glass to the top left corner?
The mod is 'what is it really used for' but it doesn't zoom, that isn't what it's for
the main issue i find is when it comes to research got any tips for making the new packs cause everytime i have to go up a teir its a whole new head ache hell i barely be able to get green up havent even maid it to the later ones jsut green
Red and green i deal with in the starter base using really basic inefficient tech. If you have biters in the game then youll want black science as well. Getting to blue is where the fun begins and thats where youll need a whole other factory. In that new factory you will need the purification process (mineral ore into elemental ore), smelting (elemental ores into plates), all of the acids (you can probably skip hydroflouric at the beginning), carbon, coke, oxygen and probably a few other things, as well as a reliable process for dealing with geodes, salinated and mineralised water, slag and crushed rock. Once you have all of that you are probably 90% of the way to blue.
Once you have blue it is mostly a case of using and extending the factory you already have, the raw infrastructure of your factory is mostly the stuff you need for blue. Of the 400 hours or so it takes me to build an angel and bob factory i would 200 of that is spent getting to blue. It is the hard part
@@theotherbigfoot ah ok cause when i first got to blue it was using SeaBlock and i looked at blue i was like man Green is bad ass and stayed at green
I've noticed you arent using any pumps in your factory. That is probably why you are having problems with fluids and gases. Idk about angelbobs but in vanilla you need 1 pump after every 15 pipes to keep a decent flow rate.
The fluids behave completely differently in angel and bob. I have tried many times to use pumps in A+B and it has never worked. Slightly higher flow rates yes but when a pipe is only giving you a quarter of what you need a slightly higher flow rate is not good enough. Pipes in A+B are an issue
You mention it's good to know how to deal with waste products, and that grouping processes is a good thing. I didn't quite catch how to deal with the most common waste products, or which processes go well in groups together. Could you elaborate on that, please?
I tried going through the 2 hour video, but just couldn't do it. Sorry :p
I don't know what to say buddy. I know I'm not the most charismatic youtuber out there but that 2hr video is the culmination of about 2500 hours of gameplay over about 3 years. I will accept that it is not the most 'blockbuster' of videos but if you have questions about angel and bob it is a really good place to start. And if you have questions but won't watch it then I don't know if there is anything else I can do.
The questions you are asking, not only do I think I cover them in that video but I go through different generations of factory and explain how they change and develop over time. It isn't just 'you need to do it this way', it is 'I tried it this way, it didn't work, so I tried it this other way, it worked better but not great, so I tried again' etc.
That video is more than a 2hour tutorial, it is a 2hour adventure through all the things that worked good and worked bad for me in angel and bob. If you don't want to watch it that is fair enough but I think there is an incredible amount of value in that 2 hours.
@@theotherbigfoot Alright, thanks for the response! I think I'll go through the video in a few sittings. Thanks for the great content. It's nice to see explanations from someone with such a different building style from other youtubers.
SPM is essentially a benchmark for megabases rather than a realistic measure of how fast you can actually complete sciences(especially in the middle of actually unlocking those sciences). no real reason to measure spm until you are able to flex. SPM is just a good benchmark because its the last step of all continuous processes you are going to make in a factory, and given that sciences "void" rather than get used elsewhere, that means theres very little to get in the way of stopping this continuous process besides stopping research entirely or the throughput of your lab research setup.
Pretty much anyone who has played angels already knows that research goes in bursts at best because of just how long it takes to get to the next tier. So a basic 1Science/sec setup is pretty much all you need up until you decide to do something crazy like Research overhaul and SpaceX researches.
It used to be Rockets/min before rockets got their ability to produce science as well. Its a better indicator of the actual goal, an "endgame" base, but realistically isnt a good way to show the full capabilities of a factory because of how little you actually need to make a rocket compared to a science setup(which is probably why the spaceX research mod was even made, to have an absurdly high research sink before infinite researches were a thing).
I can't tell if you agree with me or not?!
I remember the days when it was rockets/minute, I had contempt for that too!! (I'm not a fan of SPM, I prefer to just build to have fun, but that doesn't really count for much on RUclips!! We all want metrics!!)
What are ore patches? #seablock
i'm currently playing these mods, further modded of course: Angel's experimental / alpha branches, some other extensions..
A day is now exactly 1h each..
My evo factor scales with science progression..
Science is now incremental, has a 2 | 2 multiplier per tier (lab time | science count) and gets an additional 3x multiplier (scaled by evo factor)
Also, science has now 7 tiers..
Most components are incremental as well and have 5+ tiers..
Biters now have 10 tiers, whereby the last one would be 5 times stronger than vanilla endgame biters..
Then there're biter factions and classes..
Evo factor increases rapidly increases with spawner destruction but resets every hour back to about the science ratio..
Once i built the rocket silo, it becomes a nexus, draws aggro from hundreds of km away...
Rocket silos now also have several stages when constructed..
Behemoth worms will burrow through ocean at ~90%..
Megalodons spawn when spawners are destroyed at ~66%, and they can swim through ocean by default.. (self-made mod)
As for QoLs i use all: crates, belt stackers and loaders, mini and micro machines, LTN, ghost reader and blueprint deployer, factorissimo, nano bots, ships, warehouses and wind turbines, scrap trains and burner equipment, omega drills and deep core drills but no angel's infinite ressources..
Also, UGs are heavily restricted: tier n belts give a 2n gap and tier n pipes give a 1+4n gap..
So, yeah, it's much more complicated now..
Ressources per patch where a bit of a hassle, 7-25M within the immediate 5km, 7-50M within the next 10km, 45-110M about 20km away, 450-850M about 100km away.. and about one patch per 10° and 5km from the origin..
oh, and i play on huge islands with expensive landfills (2k stone per item).. currently sitting on a big island with a huge sattelite island nearby..
Additionally it's a lazy-B run, made possible by a "manual" tier 0 generator and an "all-you-can-craft" tier 0 burner-assembly..
I'm half way through green science (tier 3) and i've just started to plan out my component tier 2 factory units while reaching evo factor of 11% after 160h ingame.. Until now, my tech is half-automatic and i recently used 3-7 min per research..
Longterm i'm already planning to attack a new giant island, cause my bigger sattelite island would probably only get me through science tier 5 tbh due to the limited space and Coal in here..
Biters aren't a problem yet, i basically eat some fish (half a ton per campaign) and they gonna run away..
Yeah, this game is nuts xD
DUUUDE!! Talk about making things difficult for yourself. I spent 3 years, 6-7 factories, 2500hours just getting the factory right. Played with biters once but on peace mode (the timelapse). I was interested in angel and bob purely for the technical challenge. What you are doing is next level.
How do you capture the time-lapse videos? I haven't found a good way to achieve this.
I'm not sure my way of making a timelapse could be considered a 'good' way but if you really want to know...
In TLBE there is an option to set up an area tracker based on a set of co-ordinates, so remove all the other trackers and just use the area one. Then when you want to pan or zoom you'll need to incrementally change those co-ordinates to slowly move the tracked area to the one you want. Some of my larger transitions involve 100 or so changes, I can easily spend 30-40 minutes moving the camera from one location to the next. It isn't a 'good' method but it works.
@@theotherbigfoot thanks! Sounds like tlbe needs a pan/zoom option.
@@mrpocock You have no idea how much easier my life would be with a pan/zoom option in TLBE. I have a whole tutorial written which is basically a plea for someone to do just that. But I need to look at the other mods to see what they can do first. It might be easier with a different mod, I'm gonna check it out
@@theotherbigfoot I'm having a play with it now. If you go to the tracker tab, there's an option to create a new tracker. You can select the top.right and bottom/left of the new area by map pin (the abc option). Then as you want to move the area it focuses on, move those pins and re-click the abc boxes to update the tracker. If you have smooth zoom enabled, it seems to pan between those views. Make sure you add the tracker to your camera and have it before the base tracker. Also, you will want to fiddle with the zoom speed for the camera movement. I hope that I haven't told you all the things you already know and know don't actually work for you.
@@theotherbigfoot Also, I found that kdenlive is able to sequence them into a video using the "Add Image Sequence" project menu item. If you set each image to render for 1 frame, it appears to work OK. The zoom/pan transition effects bork it badly, so don't use those.
Desulfurization of coal is the best way to produce sulfuric waste water (and therefore sulfuric acid) in bulk. Coal > Crushed Coal. Crushed Coal > Coke (sulfuric waste water byproduct). Coke > Carbon. Carbon > Carbon Monoxide, which can be used in the factory or burned in a flare stack.
Desulfurisation of coal is, as far as I am aware, the only way to start the sulfur process. Thats where I get the first sulfur from that makes the first sulfuric acid that then drives everything else.
You are right to point it out, it is a critical part of the process, but there are hundreds of critical processes in angel and bob and if I went through each one I would be here until the ends of time!!
have you ever tried MomoTweaks, MSP 30, or madclowns mods?
I haven't, no, none of them. I couldn't move past angel and bob until I was happy with it.
The current plan is to go through the same thing with pyanodon, that's the set of mods I am looking at doing next. I would have started already but real life keeps getting in the way.
@@theotherbigfoot I figured, I assume you aren't doing this for youtube fame but if you were to play Py it would take forever... and the newest is in beta right now which is very promising, but you could always do some of the easier py mods and not the full pack.
Angel and Bob took me about 3 years and 8 generations of factory to get right, for me this game is about the big challenges. Since the big A+B timelapse I've done 4 vanilla ones and although they've been fun and made some cool videos they've been too, dare I say it, easy. I am a craving another big factorio project, if py takes a couple of years then it takes a couple of years
Audio level is way t0o low in the recording
You aren't wrong. The mic was sh*t also. Youtubing is a constant process of messing up and trying again, particularly if you don't know what you're doing, which I don't.
Is the reason for been in .15 - 0.16 conserms about changes?
Are you referring to the background footage? If you are you have some seriously good eyes, I don't know how you can tell the version number just from the footage. Anyway, the footage is from another of my videos where I go through 6 or 7 generations of factory that I made over several years so I had to go back several versions to be able to load them.
Itd almost as if yt knew i was considering starting a B&A run
HA!! Good luck. B&A had me hooked for 3 solid years
@@theotherbigfoot well shit. Lol. Was also thinking of maybe just doing Bobs only first, and than add angels for a second try. I am curious, what is the win condition for Bobs? Still launch a rocket ?
@@elilewis8212 Definitely a good idea to do bobs first. Its probably a quarter of the complexity of the two together.
According to the game the win condition is to launch a rocket. My win condition was a bit different.
@@theotherbigfoot I've done one bobs run before, only made it to blue science. Got it running, but than stopped because my brain was fried. LOL. So I think the goal this time will be to at least get past blue science. Seeing the victory screen would be a nice bonus😁
Got any bluepints to share? (Also, modlist?)
What blueprints would you like? The timelapse save file is in the video description so you can copy any part you like. Modlist for the timelapse also in the timelapse video description.
@@theotherbigfoot thanks
@@theotherbigfoot btw, there's no save download
@@Zygorg This is the link
www.dropbox.com/s/i9dzvrznjzduc32/Angel%20and%20Bob%20timelapse%2022.zip?dl=0
It seems to work fine for me
To be fair, in vanilla, you should only care about SPM as a metric once you've researched everything and you're just repeating the infinite sciences, not when you're still working on launching a rocket
So what you are basically saying is that the moment you are able to test what SPM factory is capable of producing is the same moment your factory doesn't really need science anymore?
I definitely don't burn all the excess waste.
Do you use god modules?
What's a god module?
I heard you dont do modules at all. Amaze
@@zhess4096 I used them in angel and bob whenever I needed to, its almost impossible to know what you are going to need so they are a good thing to have around. I always set the factory up to make them. But whenever I started a new angel and bob base I would go back to the previous version, work out how many assembly machines or chem plants I would need without modules, and then try and build that. The modules were basically a reminder of where I messed up so I wouldn't do it again.
In vanilla, I don't like them. I'm not going to mess up a vanilla factory so I don't need to use them as a reminder. Maybe for koverex at the beginning but thats it. I dunno why. I find it easier to design this stuff without modules.
IDK what this guys talking about factorio always has had gas
'Gas' as in solids/liquids/gases. There arent any gases in vanilla factorio that im aware of
@@theotherbigfoot Steam is a gas also in game also Petroleums name in game is Petroleum Gas but they might be refering to LPG which is a liquid at certain pressures well im pretty sure everything is a liquid a certain pressures and temps its hard to say what they mean by it and I'm not chemist so idk what they are referring to but Steam 100%
@@danielalbornoz9081 ok you got me, there is a single gas in the game. Well done
Petroleum is a liquid
@@theotherbigfoot pretty sure Petroleum gas boiling point is below room temp so unless its pressurized its gas in real life anyway
@@danielalbornoz9081 you are assuming the atmospheric temperature and pressure on planet factorio are the same as on planet earth
I wanted tô watch the vídeo for no reason, but i gonna stop myself because your sound quality IS terrible
You aren't wrong, the microphone cost me £25. At the time I wanted to make one video, I didn't expect to still be here some 18 months later.
Maybe its time for an upgrade
@@theotherbigfoot good luck
Well, I am taking on this challenge, and I will definitely win
I am really interested to know what you consider to be a 'win'? My angel and bob 'win' took me 2 years.