When you get Leo's phone and you get the first call the guy says "we got a buyer for Diaz's merchandise" seems pretty obvious to me that his talking about the drugs stolen from Vercetti
Well, in our opinion this phone call doesn't really prove that Ricardo Diaz was Mr Black's client and going even further - it might be left intentionally by developers. Of course it could be from the failed drug deal, but not necessarily. That's because Ricardo Diaz is a drug baron, one of the most influential people in Vice City. While having this in mind, do you think that Diaz needs to get merchandise via other gangs' exchanges? A powerful drug cartel must have a lot of connections when he wants to be at the top of drug market, especially when it comes to smuggling. This way you can get even more drugs than by taking it during an exchange. Of course we know that this way of getting drugs is more risky, but as history has proven, it was worth the shot in majority of cases. All we want to say here is that Diaz didn't have to rely strongly on info about drug deals in the area. But don't worry! We will be talking more about it in one of the future videos 😀 Cheers!
@@gaminginvestigators I guess this is the beautiful thing about Rockstar games, everyone has different theories about the games' events. Looking forward to that video !
@@gaminginvestigators There is no mystery in the Jamaican plot though. Auntie tells Tommy that she has powders that are not drugs and that the Cubans told the police where she keeps her powders. She said the Cubans thought those powders were drugs hence this is the information that they`ve passed onto the police.
@@gaminginvestigators I agree, BUT he said in one of instances something like this. "Soon, every mom's and pop's will think they can sell yayo in Vice City" which I assume means that he doesn't want anyone else in his area of expertise :D
@@gaminginvestigators Diaz mentions on the yacht how people are moving in on their territory. The law of motifs would say the story building language all points to Diaz being the one who hired out the 3 hitman. And the Chef talked about being a big hitter to people which Kent Paul found out and told Tommy. The phone call is more likely referencing the drug robbery, that's why Tommy keeps telling him to tell him where he is.
If Sonny ambushed the deal, he’s an even bigger scumbag than he already was. But Diaz had a deal regarding Cortez’ deals with Gonzalez, and Sonny was legitimately enraged by Tommy’s refusal to repay his debt.
@@sadmankhan9630 What about the money and drugs on Sonny's table during the phone conversation with Tommy? They weren't there in the first scene so why bother to add them in this one if no to suggest that he was behind it all in order to set Tommy lose on the gangs from Vice City, as he discussed with the other mobsters in the first scene?
@@sadmankhan9630 It takes about 3 hours to travel from Miami (Vice City) to New York (Liberty City) by plane. So if the hitman took the stuff to Sonny's private plane right away they should have gotten there by the time Tommy called (he didn't call right away: - he first went to Rosenberg's office, then he checked in at the hotel and only after he got the room he called from there).
@@AndreiPopescu He did not go to Rosenberg's office. He straight up went to the Ocean Beach hotel and called Sonny. The goons did not have any private jet. And it would take them time to reach the airport. Also, they have to go through a long way from Shoreside Vale to Portland. Then reach St. Marks Bistro and deliver the drugs. It is not Sonny.
Great! A great theory that in hindsight I would totally agree with. It's a shame that we don't get any direct answers with the associated intention... Bro, you make really awesome videos. It's really fun to listen to you even if I don't speak English in everyday life. With this in mind I wish you a nice day from the other side of the world probably😄✌️ Stay healthy!!!
For the mystery "what's in the bags in the mission Juju Scramble", I'll make it simple: it's cocaine. Juju is one way to say "Juice" without saying it (as it could be traced)
It was definitely diaz that was responsible for the deal going bad. Gonzalez had a prior work arrangement with diaz from vcs, that was also behind the colonels back because he had been ripping off the colonel for years. This is not a mystery, sorry :/
Bro you are ignoring mr tell the secret agent who's Phone was later on grabbed by Tommy and when he did that first phone pay mission next to mall in Washington the first sentence which came out was " Your help in eradicate whose outsiders was extremely valuable Mr tell " this shows a strong sign that he was talking about the deal ambush between Tommy vercetti and Vance brothers
@@DELETEMEmarcus right. It's truly the most realistic and likely set of events that, the colonel orchestrating the deal between the forelli family and vance brothers, would have his treacherous swine Gonzales close enough to know about it, where Gonzales would then do as he has always done and try to stab the colonel in the back secretly by working against him with diaz as he has done for years up to that point.
I thought Sonny set him up from the beginning because right after you get to Rosenburgs office you see coke on Sonny’s table in the cutscene when he’s supposedly is mad at Tommy
Man, keep posting such videos and you'll reach a million subscribers in no time. I've already shared your videos to all my friends and I've also recommended them to share your videos. The fanbase of GTA 3D era games is a lot bigger than GTA HD era games. So keep making videos on GTA 3, Vice City & San Andreas. Also, you can make videos on GTA LCS & VCS, because they're one of the least explored and least talked GTA's so people would like to know about them. Also, you may make videos on Max Payne 1& 2. Good Luck!
After thinking about it further, I remembered why Diaz is the definite culprit. 1. You get a phone call early in the game from a guy who says "Hey Leo, Diaz is trying to move that new merchandise." 2. It is confirmed in Vice City Stories that Gonzalez was forced to be an informant for Diaz and tell him about any major drug deals. So it's very possible that Cortez could have found this out after doing a little digging. Sonny with the coke on his table is still a very interesting oversight.
@@hrxjohnbrown4643 GTA VC (along with 3 and SA) takes place in the 3D Universe, while 4, 5 , and 6 are in the HD Universe, well unless Rockstar decides to make a new Universe starting with 6. Either way, the games won't be directly connected for anything like that to happen. Plus I don't see Rockstar setting the game in the past anyway, too good to pass up a modern day Vice City
@@acecashman1237 But there are many unsolves mysteries in GTA San Andreas, GTA 3 and GTA Vice City that really needs to be Solve in GTA 6 like Carl CJ Johnson Brother Bryan Johnson who is really him, Beverly Johnson Killing, Giorgio Forelli, Who is really behind the ambush of the deal at the docks in GTA Vice City Colonel Cortez/Ricardo Diaz Or Mr Black(the car garage Owner), Who is The Mystery talking on Phone to Carl CJ Johnson in GTA San Andreas Original Version and Definitive Edition ETC. I think fans of the GTA Trilogy really wants to know all these.
@@hrxjohnbrown4643 How do you imagine Rockstar would solve them in a totally new game in a different universe? Beverly Johnson death is mostly explained if you have watched the Introduction movie. Who do you mean by "Mr Black(the car garage Owner)" and "The Mystery talking on Phone to Carl CJ Johnson"?
Thanks for the comment! Now we are obliged to respond to your opinion 😄 Starting off with the first point you made, from our point of view it doesn't really prove that Ricardo Diaz was Mr Black's client. Just to make a correction, the caller said "Hey Leo, I think we've got a buyer for Diaz's merchandise.. You've gotta give him a ring, man. Set up the deal, you know.." And well.. to be absolutely honest with you, it could be from the failed drug deal, but not necessarily. Why? Mainly because Ricardo Diaz is a drug kingpin, one of the most influencial people in Vice City. While having this in mind, would you think that Diaz deals with cocaine just by stealing it from transactions? 😉 A powerful drug cartel must have extensive web of contacts, especially when it comes to smuggling. This way you can get even more drugs than by taking it during an exchange. Of course we know that this way of getting drugs is more risky, but as history has proven, it was worth a shot in majority of cases. All we want to say here is that Diaz didn't have to rely strongly on infos about drug deals in the neighbourhood. And the second point is true for sure, no doubts about that. However, we would like to encourage you to try imagine the situation for Diaz in 1984 and 2 years later. In 1984 Diaz Cartel was just crawling, it wasn't strong enough to compete with other organisations, especially Mendez Cartel. Only when Vance brothers came for aid, Diaz started truly expanding beyond his luxurious villa on Starfish Island. Moreover, it went even further when Vance Cartel stupidly decided to move to Panama, leaving their assets to be easily devoured by Diaz. That being said, we just wanted to point out some of the reasons because it will be all gathered in a future video about Diaz being innocent about the failed drug deal. We are looking forward to your replies and comments on other videos. Cheers!
This channel's videos are quality content. We need more. I have already shared the most intriguing videos with my friends. This channel is heavily underrated and deserves more attention.
You made a compelling points regarding the accusations against Ricardo Diaz. Indeed, there was little to no evidence of his involvement in the botched deal in the docks.
Vice City plot may be very enigmatic. But what we can be sure about, is that VCS doesn't explain well those riddles. First of all: Why they say at the end of VCS that Lance stole 20kg to Diaz and they will have to lay low for 2 years, if in VC Lance is hanging around in Diaz house after he took revenge killing his brother and busting the deal, recovering this way his money? It doesn't have any sense. It was clear Rockstar didn't know what they were doing, because Vic Vance is totally diferent in both games... So: "The deal was busted by Diaz", or "The 20kg from VCS doesn't have any sense". The 2nd option leads to the theory of this video, wich is the most believable, but only if we assume Tommy calls Sonny in the morning (enough time for the drugs to reach Liberty City). Either way, if we accept this theory we have the next problems: -Sonny attitude is shown totally diferent as his intentions. We never suspect of Sonny busting the deal, it seemed like it wasn't Rockstar idea. -Lance and Tommy would be very naive characteres. I don't know, it's very confusing...
victor is different in vice city and vcs because vice city was made BEFORE vice city stories, they also couldnt make victor look like a fat slob when hes a main character so obviously hes buff in vcs and fat in vc.
@@thedrbat9572 Yes sure, but because the fact it was made before VCS, they could have chosen better how to disimulate his appearance, or came up with other story, or even tell that was in fact Pete. Looks like Rockstar didn't put much attention in VCS story
@@mindujiman yeah unfortunately, i don't think that Pete was the one who died in the drug deal, that was victor since thats what rockstar confirmed but it was a really stupid choice to kill victor imo.
Yeah, this is an unfortunate truth.. Whether we are playing LCS or VCS, we might come across some past threads that Rockstar North tried to expand, but it was done poorly. That's one of the reasons we have decided to lead this video without considering VCS since we need to analyse it better before drawing conclusions from there. Now about this possibility of Sonny Forelli being the client, we are planning to make like a summary video in future (we have a concept in mind). For now we can assure you that we are going to release a video where we are defending Diaz further in near future. 🙂 (or perhaps turn this video into a summary one, we don't know yet)
@@gaminginvestigators yeah there maybe a possibility that it was pete who died and not victor because sometimes the rockstar Q and A person just throws out random things. For that gta 3 beta trailer rockstar had said it was fake despite the fact that they made that trailer so it could have been a new person who just replied "oh yeah sure.. victor died."
My theory is : Lance was a snitch since the beginning,Forelli family might have manipulated him on his brother's death. 2. Those people were sent by Forelli family through Sonny to kill Vic eventually Sonny has money and drugs 3. They probably helped Lance with some heavy loans & promised more to keep a tab on Tommy and furthermore promised to be the kingpin of Vice City. My assumption is based on In the beginning cut scene when a person asks who will keep the Tommy's leash tight
1. deal was raided by diaz... he took both money and the drugs wich becomes very obvious when lance says that diaz killed his brother. - that's something lance could find out only when spending time near diaz wich he did a lot - also diaz helped vances a little bit to build their enterprise in vice city stories but then he didn't need extra competition - and diaz is a loudmouth that thinks he can say whatever he wants Sonny with drugs on the table is not a big deal really getting a suitcase of drugs to liberty city doesn't seem that impossible for 80's 2. tommy didn't "choose" to help haitians he was drugged and hypnotized. 3. psycho killer was an ex-band member not only because he speaks with heavy english accent but because every love fist member has something weird about him one guy fucked sheep, willy i think slept in bunny pajamas and dick liked to wear women underwear wich fits with the killer who is crossdressing 4. how mich baker knew that tommy was in prison? verecetti was known as harwood butcher and that's why he was in prison, stuff like that goes around and vietnam veterans forming a biker gang don't seem that incompetent when it comes to putting 2 and 2 together. 5. sonny approached lance around the time when diaz was was eliminated.
Thanks for taking part in the discussion and providing your opinion! 🙂 We already see you seem quite certain it was Diaz, but perhaps we could break those sub-sections and give some points ourselves. Now, we would agree that Lance could find out when being close to Diaz, but the problem is we really doubt Diaz would like to talk about it since this topic brings bad attention. Moreover, if Diaz indeed was responsible, would he risk taking Lance under his wings? Or Tommy who also had his interest in failed drug deal? There is little chance for that unless he didn't know that the boys were there. Which kinda seems odd because what if he would attack the deal of the Sharks, with which he presumably was working with until "The Chase" mission? Another reason you pointed out is a very valid point. Definitely while being a drug baron, he wouldn't like new organisations to stick their nose in Vice City. The last one is just his personality trait, not related to the situation. Just because he talks too much and is cocky all the time doesn't mean such person must be responsible for Viceport's exchange. 🙂 Talking about the mission order Tommy has taken in Cuban-Haitian thread, do you think Tommy has been hypnotized via phone call already? We mean, we are 100% sure that Tommy has started this by working for Umberto Robina since his missions unlock first. However, after "Stunt Boat Challenge" suddenly he gets a phone call from Auntie Poulet. Now, we think that he "chose" to work with them for a while because of ridiculousness of first Cuban mission. The tasks he done for Haitians were completed when he was hypnotized, that's true! But the overall decision to give Haitians a try after the phone call was high likely made while being "sober", not drugged or hypnotized. About Psycho Killer you're definitely right that he could be ex-member of their group, not necessarily was he in the band itself, but perhaps he was helping them in things such as producing the music or something. While talking about Mitch Baker, one of the users suggested that bikers could have some kind of connections through VCPD, so that could be a way besides having some local informants. And the final one, well, when we are assuming that Diaz was the one, Sonny's collaboration with Lance should have started shortly after Diaz's death. Thanks again for your output 🙂
I always thought Leo Teal organized the ambush on the docks on the behalf of Diaz in order to incriminate him later because he was a government informant.
The truth is it was actually Mr Black who hired Leo and his colleagues 🙂 But Mr Black's client remains a mystery.. Although we will try to defend Ricardo Diaz more in one of future videos. Cheers!
Very well done video, wow I never thought about Lance being Sonny's informant because it was always weird how Lance knew who Tommy was when they first meet in the alley after Tommy got rid of Mr. Teal.
I think it was Sunny who ambushed the Vice Port deal. He wanted Tommy to do all the dirty hard work and establish an organization just so at the last moment before Tommy can become any bigger he can come and take it all from Tommy. What a masterplan!!
Yeah, that seems like a legit plan. Unfortunately, there are also many clues indicating Ricardo Diaz as well, that's why we are planning on making a video on both of them in the future 😉
@@gaminginvestigators I see. Cant wait for the video. Just to remind you that sunny had done this back in Liberty city too, when he told Tommy to kill a person but his goal was to get rid of Tommy and hired 11 hitmen to kill him. Vice Port incident reminds us same like Harwood Butcher incident. IDK i could be wrong but looks like one of Sonny's crafty ways of doing things.
my guess of why auntie poulet would let Tommy go and telling him not to come back to little Haiti neighborhood is because she was suspicious or probably found out Tommy was also working for the Cubans. at least the way i played those missions was Cubans first then start and finish auntie poulet missions and after that immediately do the factory mission from the Cubans and if i remember correctly after doing the factory mission Tommy got a phone call from Roberto telling him that he proved himself and that to them he's Cuban and making Tommy a Cuban member and it's also why the Haitian gang turned hostile towards Tommy. just my guess
Another great video man. In my opinion, based on the information you said, Sonny is the one who sabotage the deal. We all know that before Tommy went to jail in Liberty City, he envies Tommy and he wants to kill Tommy by setting him up in the Harwood but suddenly Tommy managed to kill those 11 hitmen (that's why he is badass) Maybe this is his plan B for killing Tommy. Btw what a great video. I didnt skip ads because you deserved it. I'm expecting for more videos in the future especially the ones that I requested. :)
If we look at it from the other side, it turns out that Sonny would gain a lot if he finished Tommy on the docks, so it's definitely possible. Thanks for these words as well! :)
And why Phil Cassidy never travelled to San Andreas. If he did so, then Phil Cassidy would have the distinction of being the only character in the 3d era to interact with all five protagonists
Also, Black says that Teal's eradication of those out of towners was invaluable to business, hinting that the contractor was Vice based. If Black was associated with Sonny, it'd be logical of Black to ambush Tommy once he is done, as a favor for the Forellis. But since Diaz was dead, there is no powerful force to compell Black to have Tommy killed. The drugs on Sonny's table were probably for distribution in Liberty City. Sonny was adamant that times are changing, and couldn't give a shit about the other families' opinions, and the Forellis probably had strong ties with the LCPD's corrupt part. I think Cortez knew Diaz was responsible all along, just feared him because of his connections. If someone else ambushed the deal, I bet its Cortez, and laid blame on Diaz and Gonzales. Cortez could have stolen the deal's money, which would have set him up for life, create a power struggle, and in the end, the likely victor, highly likely Tommy in his eyes, with Tommy's old connections, could be a great supplier for Cortez. Diaz and Vic's gangs were major competitors for Cortez' drug dealing operations, and if the Mafia became involved, then Cortez would be done. Once he returned to the city, I think he bought drugs off Tommy's organization, and since there is no one left to oppose him, Cortez would be in a perfect position, and pretty much be Vice City's drug baron in all but name. Cortez seems nice, but he could very well be a very skilled manipulator and power grabber, just less on hands than his fellow criminals. With the Vice City Mafia on his back, he'd be untouchable, and Tommy would probably never suspect him. Still, its worth noting that Diaz was paranoid of each possible competiton, and specifically mentioned the Mafia, so Diaz is likely the mastermind. About the Haitian Cuban order, you're probably right. If Tommy had been caught, the war would have been worse, and Tommy would find himself in a massive war for control of the city, which would bring massive police attention on the Haitians. Still, I kind of wonder why she didn't have Tommy kill Umberto, but I guess she feared the consequences, especially since she is affectionate of her gang members. About Mitch, the bikers probably bulit strong ties with the VCPD, most likely to help them maintain their status quo, after their decline because of Vic, so they had access to information through a police informant. They won't be able to survive another gang war, and remaining on Tommy's good side is a priority for Mitch's club, as the last powerful drug dealers against them proved too much for the bikers. About the psycho, I think he wasn't supposed to sustain any fatal injuries, but maybe he wore an armor. Either way, that whole Love Fist story seems out of place.
Yes, you are right that Teal's eradication of those out-of-townies was invaluable to the business. However, we wouldn't say that this statement hints that Mr Black's customer has to be from Vice City specifically. It's worth noting that both Vance Brothers and Forelli Crime Family are out-of-townies and this could be said regardless of whether Mr Black's client was from Vice or not, it's a fact. The term "out-of-townies" refers to the fact that both gangs are pretty much outsiders. (forgetting that Vance Brothers were here 2 years ago, developers didn't have VCS in mind at that point) Surely Ricardo Diaz could have a motive here because he wouldn't like to share Vice City with others that are just at the starting line to expand some parts of Vice City. On the other hand, Sonny could be as well as he didn't have to even point out to Black that he is the boss of Forellis. We would believe that because what if something goes wrong like this failed drug deal and someone survives and will try to find the culprit? Anonymity would be a key while doing things like these. Nevertheless, we can't say that the customer is 100% from Vice City, nah. Next up, would it be better to kill Tommy after the deal is done? The deal was pretty much done, all that needed to be done from both parties was exchanging the suitcases. The drugs were probably for distribution in Liberty City. Agreed, but from where exactly? 😉 Bear in mind that Forellis were the only ones to enter drug market, none of the other families will touch that shit as Forelli Capo said in Marco's Bistro. Now, we see that you brought up Colonel Cortez here.. the guy owns a luxurious jacht and avoided imprisonment several times. Do you think such guy would have interest in busting the deal that he organised? 🙂 He was already wanted by French GIGN. He was interested in obtaining guidance chips and military hardware. This guy tried to get as many powerful tools as he could to start another coup and overthrow current power in his country. We don't think that Cortez wanted to start making enemies in Vice City while he just escaped from his old country. You saw that when he tried to get prepared, French were after him in no time. And he had to leave Vice City to some other place to hide. We can't imagine Cortez thinking about staying here and becoming a drug baron really.. You're definitely right about Cortez being a good manipulator. Just look how many jobs you had to do for him until he mentioned one name, funny enough didn't even admit when being asked whether it's Diaz or not. About the Mafia thing.. Diaz doesn't even know that a mafia is trying to expand here. "What next? The stinking mafia?" These words don't sound like he heard of Forellis. It would be more reasonable if he did cause assuming Gonzalez did said about the drug deal, he would mention that Forellis are in fact a mafia and not cartel like Vance Brothers. About the rest of your comment, we definitely agree with you! Especially on police informant case, it's a really good point considering bikers being war weterans. Thanks a lot for another reflection 🙂
@@gaminginvestigators Thr Vance brothers weren’t in VC for a while, so maybe Black took that into consideration and didn’t know that Lance was still around. About Cortez, I guess you’re right. I guess I thought that given his history as a dictator, he’d be used to chaos and power struggles. Ultimately maybe it’s safe to assume that Diaz orchestrated the ambush. Sonny has more to gain if Tommy succeed in the deal. With the drugs he’d be able to become a trafficker, and build an empire like the Vances did.
Lance caused his Brother a ton of Problems when he worked with him seemed to have a Ego Problem then too so I was not too shocked when he betrayed Vercetti but seems sad he decided to go that route since Tomi treated him fairly and didn't lie to him
I always assumed Mitch Baker had a police informant who ran Tommy's criminal record, but blabbermouth Kent Paul dry snitching on him makes a lot of sense. Thank you for making this video though. 20 years and even more playthroughs later and I never noticed or processed the cocaine on the table during Sonny's phone call. They sent Tommy to Vice City to acquire drugs, so there's no way he would have had them there already.
There's an interesting detail about the drugs on Sonny's table: the duct tape that was clearly used to pack the drugs. If the drugs were from the failed deal, why would Sonny need a duct tape? Well, he could've opened one or two packages to ensure this was indeed coke, but he definitely wouldn't have needed two rolls of duct tape to repack it.
That's a great observation! 😁 Perhaps he already checked whether the merchandise is indeed in the packages and was going to seal them again so he could sell them in Liberty City?
I do believe Mr. black it was Sony Forelli, Because in Vice City he could put out of the road to Tommy Verceti once his back from jail, And make it look like someone talked about the deal and not being suspicious. Once he is dead he can continue with his business in LIberty City and he got the money but also the product and not being worried about Tommy in the city. However Tommy survived and now is looking for answers, on the way he still alive and now Vice City belongs to him, just in the most unexpected way for Sonny. Brilliant I must say.
Do you mean that Mr. Black is Sonny Forelli? This theory seems a bit hard to believe :/ Not only do both men have a different voice, but also what would be the point for Sonny to give tasks in Vice City? 🤔
I never connected the dots on Mr. Black mentioning “eradicating those out of towners.” I always assumed it was Diaz, based on Lance’s and Cortez’ lines. As for Sonny, what about Harry and Lee? Were they being set up too? Or, my thought...Sonny was going to have them kill Tommy after the deal was completed, then Mr. Black’s guys, on Diaz’ orders (based on info he got from Gonzalez), ambushes the deal and kills Sonny’s hitmen, inadvertently saving Tommy’s life.
Auntie Paulet was always the weirdest part of the game for me, she calls you out of nowhere, puts you under her influence, then drops you which I think is the catalyst for the Haitians attacking you on sight
@@gaminginvestigatorsShe knew of his reputation in town and general current situation, hence she offers to help get the law off of him. But she also alludes in "Juju Scramble" to the many people who want Tommy dead. The only thing she didn't yet know was Tommy working for Umberto. But after "Dirty Lickins," she finds out he's two-faced and tells him (repeatedly) not to come back to Little Haiti. Umberto outright accuses Tommy of being two-faced in "Naval Engagement," which is not just random. Tommy talks his way out of it, saying (among other things): "You want somebody taken care of? I can handle it, but it's gonna cost you. I know we're brothers and all, but this is business." Yes, Tommy was under Auntie Poulet's spell in a sense, but he had zero reservations of playing both sides of the gang war to his benefit. To this end, he does not drink the tea in his last visit to Auntie Poulet. So it's absolutely meant to be back and forth between the two sides. The only real mystery, as you noted, is why Auntie Poulet didn't keep Tommy under her spell. There are a few possibilities, but the one I think makes most sense--drawing from her knowledge of how much heat Tommy has from so many sources--is that she wanted to cut ties before that heat spilled over to her Haitians. Had she realized before letting Tommy go that he was two-faced, she likely would've executed him. I think because heat and death follow him wherever, she probably figured it would be better to just have him stay away than put a hit on him. Of course, thereafter, when Tommy does come across Haitians, they don't hesitate to shoot him on sight.
It's so sad to see 3 generations of consoles and only one GTA in each of them. I mean, who even play GTA Online that much?? I played A LOT back in the XBox 360 and a little bit in the XBox One, but damn, people are still wasting real money to buy fake one and cars that doesn't actually exist after already paying US$ 60.00 for the game??
I think i know. How is that possible that all the drugs and money appeared in sonny's table on first "mission"? Simple. He sended those guys to kill Tommy and get the cash with drugs and succesfully tricked him.
The last phone call of Auntie Poulet is kind of funny. Let me explain: Once you've completed the 3 missions the phone call will only activate if Tommy puts a step on Little Haiti, and after that phone call the hostility of the Haitians towards Tommy will be activated. So you can complete the entire storyline without answering it and you'll never be attacked by them. When I firstly completed VC, I did the first 3 cuban missions and them the game told to go and complete the 3 hatians missions in order to do the last cuban mission. So I did it. After we blown away the factory, since we are in Little Haiti, the phone call will activate and the Haitians will be hostile towards us. So I believe that's the reason why Auntie hates us, for destroying the factory.
I put my money on Sonny being the culprit. 1. In the final confrontation with Diaz, he basically has no idea why Lance and Tommy would betray him and is genuinly confused. 2. In the final confrontation with Sonny, Tommy reminiscences about how the last time Sonny send him on a mission, there where 11 guys waiting for him, almost like it was a setup, almost like Sonny purposely send him into a trap. 3. The drug piles in the cutscene with Sonny aren't just in the background, like the dead guy. Rockstar chose a camera angle that put them front and center during one shot. They really want you to see it. 4. In the intro, Sonny's friends mention explicitly that the maffia doesn't deal drugs and Tommy is suppose to be the first to do so. 5. After the ambush, nobody tries to tie up loose ends by assasinating Lance or Tommy. 6. Diaz at no point tries to get rid of the people with obvious motives to kill him if he was the client. 7. When other groups are starting to deal drugs, Diaz says: "what's next, the stinking maffia?" instead of boasting about how he booted them out of vice city. 8. Although Tommy promises to send Sonny body parts of however is responsible, he makes no mention that he killed the 'culprit' when Sonny calls him right after he killed Diaz. Clearly Tommy still isn't sure Diaz was responsible. 9. After taking over Diaz empire, Tommy makes no attempt to find the money or drugs in the mansion or with Diaz's contacts. He just gives up trying to solve it. 10. Diaz is very incompetent and barely able to defend his own drug deal with the help of Lance and Tommy. 11. Sonny only seems interested in 'my money' when calling Tommy and not in however disrespected him by stealing his stuff. In the final confrontation he doesn't seem to care about anything other than getting Tommy's money. 12. Cortez mentions that 'a man with such dangerous debts would be hungry for opportunity'. This suggests he isn't that confident in his or Tommy's ability to find the culprit and willing to abuse Tommy's vulnerability. He seems to be in on the fact that Tommy's real mission is to make money to pay back his debt to Sonny after Sonny tricks him. 13. Sonny doesn't want Tommy around. Even if he's down in Vice City, if he's succesful he would still make waves in the maffia. If Sonny wanted to expand south genuinly, he would have send somebody he actually trusted To me, things like adding drugs to a scene and using a camera angle to emphasise them are things the writers wouldn't do if it wasn't relevant. Same with the backstory of Sonny and Tommy being that Sonny send him in an ambush and Tommy doesn't know. You wouldn't use the exact same plot if you didn't want people to notice the similarities.
My theory:- at the end of Vice City Stories Vance brothers became very rich, though they were a friend of diaz, he was really pissed of their growth who was waiting for the right moment...on the other hand lance was too ambitious about Vic vance lifestyle and too addicted to drugs so Ricardo used him as a informant before vice City docks exchange... because he don't want other gangs to be involved in his drug Empire...
Sonny busting the deal makes him much more sinister, and ties in the story better in my opinion. After all, he's the final antagonist. He gave Tommy a reason to work hard in vice city and earn his money back (after all he's in "debt" to him) and keep out the dangerous maniac from liberty city. A fantastic plan. I've never heard this theory before but now it's definitely my own headcannon.
You make some amazing GTA content. Looking at the story... Often at Vice City which is my favorite, I'm very happy with your content and it's really fun to watch! Tho on one note, I'd like to recommend you to start using different thumbnails, there seems to be too many elements on the image and it's hard to focus on one thing. Same goes for the profile picture and the banner, if you like that style, it's great, but if it's just a try, maybe you could try a different style, with less text and more eye catching visuals
wish i played through vice city stories when i had a copy and didnt give up on it frustrated constantly protecting assets in a row trying to explore or even in missions if i remember correctly. liberty city stories sucks on mobile too! cmon rockstar... make them both a free DLC to compensate how bad the trilogy was for console gamers [espically nintendo switch]
@@99mrpogi cool....I know how to do many things that nobody knows how to do in gta vice city....like going to diaz mansion...the gate us locked....I can easily cross it and i I don't need tobuse any cheats or vehicles....all I do is jump on my own
The One Who Arrange Qmbush Is None Other than Diaz Refer to GTA Vc Stories Endings were Lance Says He Robbed 20 Kg coke And Then they tried to sell it so this confirms that diaz Arrange Ambush Againts Tommy vercittee
That Client Is Sonny 100%. Because after Tommi went from prison,Sonny was afraid of him,because Sonny was responsible for setiing up Tommi and put him into jail,and Sonny was afraid,that Tommi want a revenge, and took his place.)
Can someone explain to me how an attack on Grove Street territory can happen when you're nowhere near Los Santos? Like, aren't attacks supposed to only happen when you're in Los Santos and not when you're all the way in say San Fierro? My territory keeps getting attacked and claimed by the Vagos (yes, the Vagos, the cowards who forced me to leave the war zone in what used to be their territory just to go after them) despite them practically no longer existing in Los Santos. Twice this has happened to me and both times I was closer to SF than LS.
I always thought it was Sonny. If you went there with cash to set up a drug network, then how would they have drugs on the table while you just got robbed.
Established by who? 🤔 There are people who think it was Ricardo Diaz and there are the ones who think it was Sonny Forelli, in both cases we can find some hints 😉 And speaking of this, we are going to cover all findings in a separate video, stay tuned! 🤘
![Lil Uzi Vert - We Good [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DrSfBULAsek/mqdefault.jpg)
When you get Leo's phone and you get the first call the guy says "we got a buyer for Diaz's merchandise" seems pretty obvious to me that his talking about the drugs stolen from Vercetti
Well, in our opinion this phone call doesn't really prove that Ricardo Diaz was Mr Black's client and going even further - it might be left intentionally by developers. Of course it could be from the failed drug deal, but not necessarily. That's because Ricardo Diaz is a drug baron, one of the most influential people in Vice City. While having this in mind, do you think that Diaz needs to get merchandise via other gangs' exchanges? A powerful drug cartel must have a lot of connections when he wants to be at the top of drug market, especially when it comes to smuggling. This way you can get even more drugs than by taking it during an exchange. Of course we know that this way of getting drugs is more risky, but as history has proven, it was worth the shot in majority of cases. All we want to say here is that Diaz didn't have to rely strongly on info about drug deals in the area. But don't worry! We will be talking more about it in one of the future videos 😀 Cheers!
@@gaminginvestigators I guess this is the beautiful thing about Rockstar games, everyone has different theories about the games' events.
Looking forward to that video !
@@gaminginvestigators There is no mystery in the Jamaican plot though. Auntie tells Tommy that she has powders that are not drugs and that the Cubans told the police where she keeps her powders. She said the Cubans thought those powders were drugs hence this is the information that they`ve passed onto the police.
@@gaminginvestigators I agree, BUT he said in one of instances something like this. "Soon, every mom's and pop's will think they can sell yayo in Vice City" which I assume means that he doesn't want anyone else in his area of expertise :D
@@gaminginvestigators Diaz mentions on the yacht how people are moving in on their territory. The law of motifs would say the story building language all points to Diaz being the one who hired out the 3 hitman. And the Chef talked about being a big hitter to people which Kent Paul found out and told Tommy. The phone call is more likely referencing the drug robbery, that's why Tommy keeps telling him to tell him where he is.
If Sonny ambushed the deal, he’s an even bigger scumbag than he already was. But Diaz had a deal regarding Cortez’ deals with Gonzalez, and Sonny was legitimately enraged by Tommy’s refusal to repay his debt.
Yeah, I don't think Sonny set up Tommy again. His reaction was genuine.
@@sadmankhan9630 What about the money and drugs on Sonny's table during the phone conversation with Tommy? They weren't there in the first scene so why bother to add them in this one if no to suggest that he was behind it all in order to set Tommy lose on the gangs from Vice City, as he discussed with the other mobsters in the first scene?
@@AndreiPopescu Those are Sonny's own brothers. And no way those goons will reach Sonny that fast
@@sadmankhan9630 It takes about 3 hours to travel from Miami (Vice City) to New York (Liberty City) by plane. So if the hitman took the stuff to Sonny's private plane right away they should have gotten there by the time Tommy called (he didn't call right away: - he first went to Rosenberg's office, then he checked in at the hotel and only after he got the room he called from there).
@@AndreiPopescu He did not go to Rosenberg's office. He straight up went to the Ocean Beach hotel and called Sonny. The goons did not have any private jet. And it would take them time to reach the airport.
Also, they have to go through a long way from Shoreside Vale to Portland. Then reach St. Marks Bistro and deliver the drugs. It is not Sonny.
Vice City is such a masterpiece! Nice video and great edits!
Thanks bro, time spent on editing was not wasted, awesome! 😀
Great! A great theory that in hindsight I would totally agree with. It's a shame that we don't get any direct answers with the associated intention... Bro, you make really awesome videos. It's really fun to listen to you even if I don't speak English in everyday life. With this in mind I wish you a nice day from the other side of the world probably😄✌️ Stay healthy!!!
Thanks bro for these words! English is not mine first language btw😅
Stay healthy too and have a nice day!
@@gaminginvestigators how do we know it was mr. Black that hired the 3 hitmen that botched sonny's drug deal??
For the mystery "what's in the bags in the mission Juju Scramble", I'll make it simple: it's cocaine.
Juju is one way to say "Juice" without saying it (as it could be traced)
It was definitely diaz that was responsible for the deal going bad. Gonzalez had a prior work arrangement with diaz from vcs, that was also behind the colonels back because he had been ripping off the colonel for years. This is not a mystery, sorry :/
Bro you are ignoring mr tell the secret agent who's Phone was later on grabbed by Tommy and when he did that first phone pay mission next to mall in Washington the first sentence which came out was " Your help in eradicate whose outsiders was extremely valuable Mr tell " this shows a strong sign that he was talking about the deal ambush between Tommy vercetti and Vance brothers
@@DELETEMEmarcus right. It's truly the most realistic and likely set of events that, the colonel orchestrating the deal between the forelli family and vance brothers, would have his treacherous swine Gonzales close enough to know about it, where Gonzales would then do as he has always done and try to stab the colonel in the back secretly by working against him with diaz as he has done for years up to that point.
I thought Sonny set him up from the beginning because right after you get to Rosenburgs office you see coke on Sonny’s table in the cutscene when he’s supposedly is mad at Tommy
Man, keep posting such videos and you'll reach a million subscribers in no time. I've already shared your videos to all my friends and I've also recommended them to share your videos. The fanbase of GTA 3D era games is a lot bigger than GTA HD era games. So keep making videos on GTA 3, Vice City & San Andreas. Also, you can make videos on GTA LCS & VCS, because they're one of the least explored and least talked GTA's so people would like to know about them. Also, you may make videos on Max Payne 1& 2. Good Luck!
Appreciate for that!
After thinking about it further, I remembered why Diaz is the definite culprit.
1. You get a phone call early in the game from a guy who says "Hey Leo, Diaz is trying to move that new merchandise."
2. It is confirmed in Vice City Stories that Gonzalez was forced to be an informant for Diaz and tell him about any major drug deals.
So it's very possible that Cortez could have found this out after doing a little digging. Sonny with the coke on his table is still a very interesting oversight.
Maybe in GTA 6 all unsolves mysteries surrounding GTA Vice City will finally be solves if it would be set in 1969s upwards to 1990s era.
@@hrxjohnbrown4643 GTA VC (along with 3 and SA) takes place in the 3D Universe, while 4, 5 , and 6 are in the HD Universe, well unless Rockstar decides to make a new Universe starting with 6. Either way, the games won't be directly connected for anything like that to happen. Plus I don't see Rockstar setting the game in the past anyway, too good to pass up a modern day Vice City
@@acecashman1237 But there are many unsolves mysteries in GTA San Andreas, GTA 3 and GTA Vice City that really needs to be Solve in GTA 6 like Carl CJ Johnson Brother Bryan Johnson who is really him, Beverly Johnson Killing, Giorgio Forelli, Who is really behind the ambush of the deal at the docks in GTA Vice City Colonel Cortez/Ricardo Diaz Or Mr Black(the car garage Owner), Who is The Mystery talking on Phone to Carl CJ Johnson in GTA San Andreas Original Version and Definitive Edition ETC. I think fans of the GTA Trilogy really wants to know all these.
@@hrxjohnbrown4643 How do you imagine Rockstar would solve them in a totally new game in a different universe?
Beverly Johnson death is mostly explained if you have watched the Introduction movie.
Who do you mean by "Mr Black(the car garage Owner)" and "The Mystery talking on Phone to Carl CJ Johnson"?
Thanks for the comment! Now we are obliged to respond to your opinion 😄 Starting off with the first point you made, from our point of view it doesn't really prove that Ricardo Diaz was Mr Black's client. Just to make a correction, the caller said "Hey Leo, I think we've got a buyer for Diaz's merchandise.. You've gotta give him a ring, man. Set up the deal, you know.." And well.. to be absolutely honest with you, it could be from the failed drug deal, but not necessarily. Why? Mainly because Ricardo Diaz is a drug kingpin, one of the most influencial people in Vice City. While having this in mind, would you think that Diaz deals with cocaine just by stealing it from transactions? 😉 A powerful drug cartel must have extensive web of contacts, especially when it comes to smuggling. This way you can get even more drugs than by taking it during an exchange. Of course we know that this way of getting drugs is more risky, but as history has proven, it was worth a shot in majority of cases. All we want to say here is that Diaz didn't have to rely strongly on infos about drug deals in the neighbourhood. And the second point is true for sure, no doubts about that. However, we would like to encourage you to try imagine the situation for Diaz in 1984 and 2 years later. In 1984 Diaz Cartel was just crawling, it wasn't strong enough to compete with other organisations, especially Mendez Cartel. Only when Vance brothers came for aid, Diaz started truly expanding beyond his luxurious villa on Starfish Island. Moreover, it went even further when Vance Cartel stupidly decided to move to Panama, leaving their assets to be easily devoured by Diaz. That being said, we just wanted to point out some of the reasons because it will be all gathered in a future video about Diaz being innocent about the failed drug deal. We are looking forward to your replies and comments on other videos. Cheers!
This channel's videos are quality content. We need more. I have already shared the most intriguing videos with my friends. This channel is heavily underrated and deserves more attention.
Thanks so much Shadid! 🙂
You made a compelling points regarding the accusations against Ricardo Diaz. Indeed, there was little to no evidence of his involvement in the botched deal in the docks.
Vice City plot may be very enigmatic. But what we can be sure about, is that VCS doesn't explain well those riddles.
First of all: Why they say at the end of VCS that Lance stole 20kg to Diaz and they will have to lay low for 2 years, if in VC Lance is hanging around in Diaz house after he took revenge killing his brother and busting the deal, recovering this way his money? It doesn't have any sense.
It was clear Rockstar didn't know what they were doing, because Vic Vance is totally diferent in both games...
So: "The deal was busted by Diaz", or "The 20kg from VCS doesn't have any sense".
The 2nd option leads to the theory of this video, wich is the most believable, but only if we assume Tommy calls Sonny in the morning (enough time for the drugs to reach Liberty City).
Either way, if we accept this theory we have the next problems:
-Sonny attitude is shown totally diferent as his intentions. We never suspect of Sonny busting the deal, it seemed like it wasn't Rockstar idea.
-Lance and Tommy would be very naive characteres.
I don't know, it's very confusing...
victor is different in vice city and vcs because vice city was made BEFORE vice city stories, they also couldnt make victor look like a fat slob when hes a main character so obviously hes buff in vcs and fat in vc.
@@thedrbat9572 Yes sure, but because the fact it was made before VCS, they could have chosen better how to disimulate his appearance, or came up with other story, or even tell that was in fact Pete. Looks like Rockstar didn't put much attention in VCS story
@@mindujiman yeah unfortunately, i don't think that Pete was the one who died in the drug deal, that was victor since thats what rockstar confirmed but it was a really stupid choice to kill victor imo.
Yeah, this is an unfortunate truth.. Whether we are playing LCS or VCS, we might come across some past threads that Rockstar North tried to expand, but it was done poorly. That's one of the reasons we have decided to lead this video without considering VCS since we need to analyse it better before drawing conclusions from there. Now about this possibility of Sonny Forelli being the client, we are planning to make like a summary video in future (we have a concept in mind). For now we can assure you that we are going to release a video where we are defending Diaz further in near future. 🙂 (or perhaps turn this video into a summary one, we don't know yet)
@@gaminginvestigators yeah there maybe a possibility that it was pete who died and not victor because sometimes the rockstar Q and A person just throws out random things. For that gta 3 beta trailer rockstar had said it was fake despite the fact that they made that trailer so it could have been a new person who just replied "oh yeah sure.. victor died."
Thank you soooo much for showing scenes from the OG version of the game rather than the Defective edition. Thank youuuuuuuuuuuu❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Nobody loves the garbage edition? 😅
@@gaminginvestigators nooooooo🤣🤣
My theory is :
Lance was a snitch since the beginning,Forelli family might have manipulated him on his brother's death.
2. Those people were sent by Forelli family through Sonny to kill Vic eventually Sonny has money and drugs
3. They probably helped Lance with some heavy loans & promised more to keep a tab on Tommy and furthermore promised to be the kingpin of Vice City.
My assumption is based on In the beginning cut scene when a person asks who will keep the Tommy's leash tight
That makes sense, because how did Lance even know who Tommy was?
1. deal was raided by diaz... he took both money and the drugs wich becomes very obvious when lance says that diaz killed his brother.
- that's something lance could find out only when spending time near diaz wich he did a lot
- also diaz helped vances a little bit to build their enterprise in vice city stories but then he didn't need extra competition
- and diaz is a loudmouth that thinks he can say whatever he wants
Sonny with drugs on the table is not a big deal really getting a suitcase of drugs to liberty city doesn't seem that impossible for 80's
2. tommy didn't "choose" to help haitians he was drugged and hypnotized.
3. psycho killer was an ex-band member not only because he speaks with heavy english accent but because every love fist member has something weird about him
one guy fucked sheep, willy i think slept in bunny pajamas and dick liked to wear women underwear wich fits with the killer who is crossdressing
4. how mich baker knew that tommy was in prison? verecetti was known as harwood butcher and that's why he was in prison, stuff like that goes around and vietnam veterans forming a biker gang don't seem that incompetent when it comes to putting 2 and 2 together.
5. sonny approached lance around the time when diaz was was eliminated.
Thanks for taking part in the discussion and providing your opinion! 🙂 We already see you seem quite certain it was Diaz, but perhaps we could break those sub-sections and give some points ourselves. Now, we would agree that Lance could find out when being close to Diaz, but the problem is we really doubt Diaz would like to talk about it since this topic brings bad attention. Moreover, if Diaz indeed was responsible, would he risk taking Lance under his wings? Or Tommy who also had his interest in failed drug deal? There is little chance for that unless he didn't know that the boys were there. Which kinda seems odd because what if he would attack the deal of the Sharks, with which he presumably was working with until "The Chase" mission? Another reason you pointed out is a very valid point. Definitely while being a drug baron, he wouldn't like new organisations to stick their nose in Vice City. The last one is just his personality trait, not related to the situation. Just because he talks too much and is cocky all the time doesn't mean such person must be responsible for Viceport's exchange. 🙂 Talking about the mission order Tommy has taken in Cuban-Haitian thread, do you think Tommy has been hypnotized via phone call already? We mean, we are 100% sure that Tommy has started this by working for Umberto Robina since his missions unlock first. However, after "Stunt Boat Challenge" suddenly he gets a phone call from Auntie Poulet. Now, we think that he "chose" to work with them for a while because of ridiculousness of first Cuban mission.
The tasks he done for Haitians were completed when he was hypnotized, that's true! But the overall decision to give Haitians a try after the phone call was high likely made while being "sober", not drugged or hypnotized. About Psycho Killer you're definitely right that he could be ex-member of their group, not necessarily was he in the band itself, but perhaps he was helping them in things such as producing the music or something. While talking about Mitch Baker, one of the users suggested that bikers could have some kind of connections through VCPD, so that could be a way besides having some local informants. And the final one, well, when we are assuming that Diaz was the one, Sonny's collaboration with Lance should have started shortly after Diaz's death. Thanks again for your output 🙂
Thank you, there's much wrong in this video
This channel is gold , glad I found it
Keep the quality coming ❤
Thanks bro!
I always thought Leo Teal organized the ambush on the docks on the behalf of Diaz in order to incriminate him later because he was a government informant.
The truth is it was actually Mr Black who hired Leo and his colleagues 🙂 But Mr Black's client remains a mystery.. Although we will try to defend Ricardo Diaz more in one of future videos. Cheers!
Very well done video, wow I never thought about Lance being Sonny's informant because it was always weird how Lance knew who Tommy was when they first meet in the alley after Tommy got rid of Mr. Teal.
There is no 100% sure, but there are many indications of this. Thanks!
I think it was Sunny who ambushed the Vice Port deal. He wanted Tommy to do all the dirty hard work and establish an organization just so at the last moment before Tommy can become any bigger he can come and take it all from Tommy. What a masterplan!!
Yeah, that seems like a legit plan. Unfortunately, there are also many clues indicating Ricardo Diaz as well, that's why we are planning on making a video on both of them in the future 😉
@@gaminginvestigators I see. Cant wait for the video.
Just to remind you that sunny had done this back in Liberty city too, when he told Tommy to kill a person but his goal was to get rid of Tommy and hired 11 hitmen to kill him. Vice Port incident reminds us same like Harwood Butcher incident. IDK i could be wrong but looks like one of Sonny's crafty ways of doing things.
my guess of why auntie poulet would let Tommy go and telling him not to come back to little Haiti neighborhood is because she was suspicious or probably found out Tommy was also working for the Cubans. at least the way i played those missions was Cubans first then start and finish auntie poulet missions and after that immediately do the factory mission from the Cubans and if i remember correctly after doing the factory mission Tommy got a phone call from Roberto telling him that he proved himself and that to them he's Cuban and making Tommy a Cuban member and it's also why the Haitian gang turned hostile towards Tommy. just my guess
Today is the first time I noticed the dead guy hanging next to meat behind Sonny.
Love your videos mate
Nice to hear that!
Another great video man. In my opinion, based on the information you said, Sonny is the one who sabotage the deal. We all know that before Tommy went to jail in Liberty City, he envies Tommy and he wants to kill Tommy by setting him up in the Harwood but suddenly Tommy managed to kill those 11 hitmen (that's why he is badass) Maybe this is his plan B for killing Tommy.
Btw what a great video. I didnt skip ads because you deserved it. I'm expecting for more videos in the future especially the ones that I requested. :)
If we look at it from the other side, it turns out that Sonny would gain a lot if he finished Tommy on the docks, so it's definitely possible. Thanks for these words as well! :)
Now Make a: How Phil Cassidy From Vice City Move Into Liberty City During Gta Liberty City Stories And Gta 3 Event
Interesting idea but quite hard to make. Anyway, I hope to show something about it in the future :)
And why Phil Cassidy never travelled to San Andreas. If he did so, then Phil Cassidy would have the distinction of being the only character in the 3d era to interact with all five protagonists
Diaz is literally the client. He comes in talking about Barbarians at the gates. He's talking about Sonny and Tommys drug deal.
Bruh growing to fast!!! I think you should coz ur content is mind blowing. Btw can you make discord server
Also, Black says that Teal's eradication of those out of towners was invaluable to business, hinting that the contractor was Vice based. If Black was associated with Sonny, it'd be logical of Black to ambush Tommy once he is done, as a favor for the Forellis. But since Diaz was dead, there is no powerful force to compell Black to have Tommy killed. The drugs on Sonny's table were probably for distribution in Liberty City. Sonny was adamant that times are changing, and couldn't give a shit about the other families' opinions, and the Forellis probably had strong ties with the LCPD's corrupt part. I think Cortez knew Diaz was responsible all along, just feared him because of his connections. If someone else ambushed the deal, I bet its Cortez, and laid blame on Diaz and Gonzales. Cortez could have stolen the deal's money, which would have set him up for life, create a power struggle, and in the end, the likely victor, highly likely Tommy in his eyes, with Tommy's old connections, could be a great supplier for Cortez. Diaz and Vic's gangs were major competitors for Cortez' drug dealing operations, and if the Mafia became involved, then Cortez would be done. Once he returned to the city, I think he bought drugs off Tommy's organization, and since there is no one left to oppose him, Cortez would be in a perfect position, and pretty much be Vice City's drug baron in all but name. Cortez seems nice, but he could very well be a very skilled manipulator and power grabber, just less on hands than his fellow criminals. With the Vice City Mafia on his back, he'd be untouchable, and Tommy would probably never suspect him. Still, its worth noting that Diaz was paranoid of each possible competiton, and specifically mentioned the Mafia, so Diaz is likely the mastermind. About the Haitian Cuban order, you're probably right. If Tommy had been caught, the war would have been worse, and Tommy would find himself in a massive war for control of the city, which would bring massive police attention on the Haitians. Still, I kind of wonder why she didn't have Tommy kill Umberto, but I guess she feared the consequences, especially since she is affectionate of her gang members. About Mitch, the bikers probably bulit strong ties with the VCPD, most likely to help them maintain their status quo, after their decline because of Vic, so they had access to information through a police informant. They won't be able to survive another gang war, and remaining on Tommy's good side is a priority for Mitch's club, as the last powerful drug dealers against them proved too much for the bikers. About the psycho, I think he wasn't supposed to sustain any fatal injuries, but maybe he wore an armor. Either way, that whole Love Fist story seems out of place.
Yes, you are right that Teal's eradication of those out-of-townies was invaluable to the business. However, we wouldn't say that this statement hints that Mr Black's customer has to be from Vice City specifically. It's worth noting that both Vance Brothers and Forelli Crime Family are out-of-townies and this could be said regardless of whether Mr Black's client was from Vice or not, it's a fact. The term "out-of-townies" refers to the fact that both gangs are pretty much outsiders. (forgetting that Vance Brothers were here 2 years ago, developers didn't have VCS in mind at that point) Surely Ricardo Diaz could have a motive here because he wouldn't like to share Vice City with others that are just at the starting line to expand some parts of Vice City. On the other hand, Sonny could be as well as he didn't have to even point out to Black that he is the boss of Forellis. We would believe that because what if something goes wrong like this failed drug deal and someone survives and will try to find the culprit? Anonymity would be a key while doing things like these. Nevertheless, we can't say that the customer is 100% from Vice City, nah. Next up, would it be better to kill Tommy after the deal is done? The deal was pretty much done, all that needed to be done from both parties was exchanging the suitcases. The drugs were probably for distribution in Liberty City. Agreed, but from where exactly? 😉 Bear in mind that Forellis were the only ones to enter drug market, none of the other families will touch that shit as Forelli Capo said in Marco's Bistro. Now, we see that you brought up Colonel Cortez here.. the guy owns a luxurious jacht and avoided imprisonment several times. Do you think such guy would have interest in busting the deal that he organised? 🙂
He was already wanted by French GIGN. He was interested in obtaining guidance chips and military hardware. This guy tried to get as many powerful tools as he could to start another coup and overthrow current power in his country. We don't think that Cortez wanted to start making enemies in Vice City while he just escaped from his old country. You saw that when he tried to get prepared, French were after him in no time. And he had to leave Vice City to some other place to hide. We can't imagine Cortez thinking about staying here and becoming a drug baron really.. You're definitely right about Cortez being a good manipulator. Just look how many jobs you had to do for him until he mentioned one name, funny enough didn't even admit when being asked whether it's Diaz or not. About the Mafia thing.. Diaz doesn't even know that a mafia is trying to expand here. "What next? The stinking mafia?" These words don't sound like he heard of Forellis. It would be more reasonable if he did cause assuming Gonzalez did said about the drug deal, he would mention that Forellis are in fact a mafia and not cartel like Vance Brothers. About the rest of your comment, we definitely agree with you! Especially on police informant case, it's a really good point considering bikers being war weterans. Thanks a lot for another reflection 🙂
@@gaminginvestigators Thr Vance brothers weren’t in VC for a while, so maybe Black took that into consideration and didn’t know that Lance was still around. About Cortez, I guess you’re right. I guess I thought that given his history as a dictator, he’d be used to chaos and power struggles. Ultimately maybe it’s safe to assume that Diaz orchestrated the ambush. Sonny has more to gain if Tommy succeed in the deal. With the drugs he’d be able to become a trafficker, and build an empire like the Vances did.
Lance caused his Brother a ton of Problems when he worked with him seemed to have a Ego Problem then too so I was not too shocked when he betrayed Vercetti but seems sad he decided to go that route since Tomi treated him fairly and didn't lie to him
I always thought it was sonny, I mean I noticed the cocaine right away
I always assumed Mitch Baker had a police informant who ran Tommy's criminal record, but blabbermouth Kent Paul dry snitching on him makes a lot of sense.
Thank you for making this video though. 20 years and even more playthroughs later and I never noticed or processed the cocaine on the table during Sonny's phone call. They sent Tommy to Vice City to acquire drugs, so there's no way he would have had them there already.
You were probably a kid when you first played this game on PS2 like I was lol. None of us knew lmao.
Kent Paul was loyal he took tommys side even though there is a chance he might die
Bro, keep doing what you're doing, your content is Lit. 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I enjoy every episode analyzing different theories from GTA ♥️
Thanks bro, such uplifting comment!
I love the Vice City theme in the background.
I literally binged watched all your videos yesterday
Awesome ho hear that. The new one soon 😁
There's an interesting detail about the drugs on Sonny's table: the duct tape that was clearly used to pack the drugs. If the drugs were from the failed deal, why would Sonny need a duct tape? Well, he could've opened one or two packages to ensure this was indeed coke, but he definitely wouldn't have needed two rolls of duct tape to repack it.
That's a great observation! 😁 Perhaps he already checked whether the merchandise is indeed in the packages and was going to seal them again so he could sell them in Liberty City?
I do believe Mr. black it was Sony Forelli, Because in Vice City he could put out of the road to Tommy Verceti once his back from jail, And make it look like someone talked about the deal and not being suspicious. Once he is dead he can continue with his business in LIberty City and he got the money but also the product and not being worried about Tommy in the city.
However Tommy survived and now is looking for answers, on the way he still alive and now Vice City belongs to him, just in the most unexpected way for Sonny.
Brilliant I must say.
Do you mean that Mr. Black is Sonny Forelli? This theory seems a bit hard to believe :/ Not only do both men have a different voice, but also what would be the point for Sonny to give tasks in Vice City? 🤔
Are we not gonna talk about the guy hanging from the meat hook behind sunny? I was today years old when I found that out
Luv this info I was wanna know this when I was a kids .. please do a scarface clip
Good video man, also.
TOMMY!, TOMMY! watch your tone.
The game tells you who set the deal up. Cortez gives you a chainsaw to use and the phone call you get confirms it
Really amazing stuff, my friend! Keep it going! Bright future ahead! :)
No nie wierzę :D
I never connected the dots on Mr. Black mentioning “eradicating those out of towners.” I always assumed it was Diaz, based on Lance’s and Cortez’ lines.
As for Sonny, what about Harry and Lee? Were they being set up too? Or, my thought...Sonny was going to have them kill Tommy after the deal was completed, then Mr. Black’s guys, on Diaz’ orders (based on info he got from Gonzalez), ambushes the deal and kills Sonny’s hitmen, inadvertently saving Tommy’s life.
sonny betrayed him twice jeeze cant teach a old dog new tricks just ask my deadbeat dad
Im calling it Mr.Black will appear I GTA6 with a classified status.
Very interesting video, love these kinds of videos. Thanks for uploading
Auntie Paulet was always the weirdest part of the game for me, she calls you out of nowhere, puts you under her influence, then drops you which I think is the catalyst for the Haitians attacking you on sight
That's true, markasscop! By the way, we are planning on releasing a video devoted to Haitians soon, so stay tuned! 🤘
@@gaminginvestigatorsShe knew of his reputation in town and general current situation, hence she offers to help get the law off of him. But she also alludes in "Juju Scramble" to the many people who want Tommy dead. The only thing she didn't yet know was Tommy working for Umberto. But after "Dirty Lickins," she finds out he's two-faced and tells him (repeatedly) not to come back to Little Haiti.
Umberto outright accuses Tommy of being two-faced in "Naval Engagement," which is not just random. Tommy talks his way out of it, saying (among other things): "You want somebody taken care of? I can handle it, but it's gonna cost you. I know we're brothers and all, but this is business." Yes, Tommy was under Auntie Poulet's spell in a sense, but he had zero reservations of playing both sides of the gang war to his benefit. To this end, he does not drink the tea in his last visit to Auntie Poulet. So it's absolutely meant to be back and forth between the two sides.
The only real mystery, as you noted, is why Auntie Poulet didn't keep Tommy under her spell. There are a few possibilities, but the one I think makes most sense--drawing from her knowledge of how much heat Tommy has from so many sources--is that she wanted to cut ties before that heat spilled over to her Haitians. Had she realized before letting Tommy go that he was two-faced, she likely would've executed him. I think because heat and death follow him wherever, she probably figured it would be better to just have him stay away than put a hit on him. Of course, thereafter, when Tommy does come across Haitians, they don't hesitate to shoot him on sight.
You deserve more subs my guy.. amazing video
It's so sad to see 3 generations of consoles and only one GTA in each of them. I mean, who even play GTA Online that much?? I played A LOT back in the XBox 360 and a little bit in the XBox One, but damn, people are still wasting real money to buy fake one and cars that doesn't actually exist after already paying US$ 60.00 for the game??
love the channel the content the quality edits 👏👌✨🙌
Thanks! Awesome that this efforts do not get wasted.😁
I think i know. How is that possible that all the drugs and money appeared in sonny's table on first "mission"? Simple. He sended those guys to kill Tommy and get the cash with drugs and succesfully tricked him.
In my theory C.I.A Is the one pulling strings in all gta games
Started from GTA 3
🤷♂️
Huh, I'm 99% sure that in one of the love fist stalker cutscenes Paul points it out that the stalker indeed survived.
the voice in 1 phone call is of urberto robina?
It was shown in the beginning. He was in the helicopter and if he wasn't in the helicopter and had a piece they could've taken Mr. Black out
Why did Vic Vance become a completely different person between Vice City stories and Vice city.. Really should have just made it the 3rd brother.
Character development
@Blue Kiddo right, Vic was virtually a different person in VC lol
2:14: nice typo with his name lol
3:26 never noticed the guy hanging on a hook in the background
3:10 I thought that as well
Hey I have a suggestion for you can you please make a comparison video of old gta trilogy PC version and Android version it would be great please
The last phone call of Auntie Poulet is kind of funny. Let me explain:
Once you've completed the 3 missions the phone call will only activate if Tommy puts a step on Little Haiti, and after that phone call the hostility of the Haitians towards Tommy will be activated.
So you can complete the entire storyline without answering it and you'll never be attacked by them.
When I firstly completed VC, I did the first 3 cuban missions and them the game told to go and complete the 3 hatians missions in order to do the last cuban mission. So I did it.
After we blown away the factory, since we are in Little Haiti, the phone call will activate and the Haitians will be hostile towards us.
So I believe that's the reason why Auntie hates us, for destroying the factory.
There could’ve been some answers if the gta meta universe existed .
I put my money on Sonny being the culprit.
1. In the final confrontation with Diaz, he basically has no idea why Lance and Tommy would betray him and is genuinly confused.
2. In the final confrontation with Sonny, Tommy reminiscences about how the last time Sonny send him on a mission, there where 11 guys waiting for him, almost like it was a setup, almost like Sonny purposely send him into a trap.
3. The drug piles in the cutscene with Sonny aren't just in the background, like the dead guy. Rockstar chose a camera angle that put them front and center during one shot. They really want you to see it.
4. In the intro, Sonny's friends mention explicitly that the maffia doesn't deal drugs and Tommy is suppose to be the first to do so.
5. After the ambush, nobody tries to tie up loose ends by assasinating Lance or Tommy.
6. Diaz at no point tries to get rid of the people with obvious motives to kill him if he was the client.
7. When other groups are starting to deal drugs, Diaz says: "what's next, the stinking maffia?" instead of boasting about how he booted them out of vice city.
8. Although Tommy promises to send Sonny body parts of however is responsible, he makes no mention that he killed the 'culprit' when Sonny calls him right after he killed Diaz. Clearly Tommy still isn't sure Diaz was responsible.
9. After taking over Diaz empire, Tommy makes no attempt to find the money or drugs in the mansion or with Diaz's contacts. He just gives up trying to solve it.
10. Diaz is very incompetent and barely able to defend his own drug deal with the help of Lance and Tommy.
11. Sonny only seems interested in 'my money' when calling Tommy and not in however disrespected him by stealing his stuff. In the final confrontation he doesn't seem to care about anything other than getting Tommy's money.
12. Cortez mentions that 'a man with such dangerous debts would be hungry for opportunity'. This suggests he isn't that confident in his or Tommy's ability to find the culprit and willing to abuse Tommy's vulnerability. He seems to be in on the fact that Tommy's real mission is to make money to pay back his debt to Sonny after Sonny tricks him.
13. Sonny doesn't want Tommy around. Even if he's down in Vice City, if he's succesful he would still make waves in the maffia. If Sonny wanted to expand south genuinly, he would have send somebody he actually trusted
To me, things like adding drugs to a scene and using a camera angle to emphasise them are things the writers wouldn't do if it wasn't relevant. Same with the backstory of Sonny and Tommy being that Sonny send him in an ambush and Tommy doesn't know. You wouldn't use the exact same plot if you didn't want people to notice the similarities.
I believe the Psycho hadnt die because when we "kill" him, his body disappears and there is no gun for us to catch
what a great video
What a great comment! 😀
LES GO A NEW VIDEO
My theory:- at the end of Vice City Stories Vance brothers became very rich, though they were a friend of diaz, he was really pissed of their growth who was waiting for the right moment...on the other hand lance was too ambitious about Vic vance lifestyle and too addicted to drugs so Ricardo used him as a informant before vice City docks exchange... because he don't want other gangs to be involved in his drug Empire...
something about the v o script feels...off like it was Google translated from a different language or something. Can't put my finger on it
the question i sti have is "where are the money and drugs lost in the deal ?"
what mods do you use in gta 3?
Sonny busting the deal makes him much more sinister, and ties in the story better in my opinion. After all, he's the final antagonist. He gave Tommy a reason to work hard in vice city and earn his money back (after all he's in "debt" to him) and keep out the dangerous maniac from liberty city. A fantastic plan. I've never heard this theory before but now it's definitely my own headcannon.
My theory is it's sonny irl there was a mobster named sonny black like in the movie donny brasco.
Hey you should make a video on why the triads hate Claude on GTA 3
You made some great assumptions
You make some amazing GTA content. Looking at the story... Often at Vice City which is my favorite, I'm very happy with your content and it's really fun to watch!
Tho on one note, I'd like to recommend you to start using different thumbnails, there seems to be too many elements on the image and it's hard to focus on one thing. Same goes for the profile picture and the banner, if you like that style, it's great, but if it's just a try, maybe you could try a different style, with less text and more eye catching visuals
Thanks! I will try to improve thumbnails then. I cannot promise improvement, but I can promise that I will try :)
@@gaminginvestigators happy to have given feedback!
*Dobry materiał , z tymże że szkoda że materiały nie są z definitive edition , Było by to przyjemniejsze wizualnie do oglądania*
Sonny ambushing the deal makes Zero sense,it's clear that Diaz was behind the Ambush
sony wants to keep tommy busy therefore he ambush his own deal
New subscriber here
Nice to meet you and thanks for subscribing! 😀
Thank you for responding :)
i cant help but think allot of the choices were to just send the player to different areas of the map and interact with all factions
If, sonny forelli was in st. Marks bistro in liberty city. . . Why were he, and his capo's clothes tropical themed polo shirts, and not suits?
@@futurei0oo when in rome
Or Sonny was already in VC, and was just waiting!
@@jasontodd8071 tommy was the cut-out!
Can't be Lance he was flying the helicopter.
lance killed his own brother! you could see that coming!
Like lance could have deliberately abandoned Vic instead of making an attempt to retrieve Vic's remains
SPEED🤔
wish i played through vice city stories when i had a copy and didnt give up on it frustrated constantly protecting assets in a row trying to explore or even in missions if i remember correctly.
liberty city stories sucks on mobile too! cmon rockstar... make them both a free DLC to compensate how bad the trilogy was for console gamers [espically nintendo switch]
Fun fact....u do t have to do no missions for aunt Paulie or Humbert to pass the game
Unlocking the first or second auntie poulett mission prevented me from doing more jobs for umberto
@@99mrpogi cool....I know how to do many things that nobody knows how to do in gta vice city....like going to diaz mansion...the gate us locked....I can easily cross it and i I don't need tobuse any cheats or vehicles....all I do is jump on my own
The One Who Arrange Qmbush Is None Other than Diaz Refer to GTA Vc Stories Endings were Lance Says He Robbed 20 Kg coke And Then they tried to sell it so this confirms that diaz Arrange Ambush Againts Tommy vercittee
But Lance would only be allowed to be an associate in the Forelli family since yk, he definitely ain’t 100% Italian
Lance wanted to get to power before Tommy he’s a freak
R.I.P. Sonny Forelli
Who is mister black?
That Client Is Sonny 100%. Because after Tommi went from prison,Sonny was afraid of him,because Sonny was responsible for setiing up Tommi and put him into jail,and Sonny was afraid,that Tommi want a revenge, and took his place.)
Can someone explain to me how an attack on Grove Street territory can happen when you're nowhere near Los Santos? Like, aren't attacks supposed to only happen when you're in Los Santos and not when you're all the way in say San Fierro? My territory keeps getting attacked and claimed by the Vagos (yes, the Vagos, the cowards who forced me to leave the war zone in what used to be their territory just to go after them) despite them practically no longer existing in Los Santos. Twice this has happened to me and both times I was closer to SF than LS.
I always thought it was Sonny. If you went there with cash to set up a drug network, then how would they have drugs on the table while you just got robbed.
The Arabs are money, oh my God, you understand the Arabs wrongly, we are like you.🤦🏻😂😂😂🤣💔
It’s established that Diaz ambushed Tommy. The whole first half of the game is finding out it was him and getting revenge
Established by who? 🤔 There are people who think it was Ricardo Diaz and there are the ones who think it was Sonny Forelli, in both cases we can find some hints 😉 And speaking of this, we are going to cover all findings in a separate video, stay tuned! 🤘
Like Ricardo Diaz is the main antagonist of the first half
Who is Mr Black ?
This is the guy who arranged hitmans who we can see during the deal in Viceport and the person giving us phone booth missions.
@@gaminginvestigators Thanks
Aren’t those guys Diaz’ men dress up?
W video
nikita forostenko video pretty close to the truth and answers on most of questions
Here's one: How do so many people have Tommy/Leo Teal's number?
Hello 👋
Hello :)
I'd like @TheProfessional to comment this video