The player names are Jacqueline Pham (green shoes) & Ed Tang (pink shirt) vs Denise DeSalvo & Owen Pilgrim (both in black). I happened to be nearby shortly before the match began and decided to stick around to record this video. I have no connection to any of the four players and didn't have time to ask their names before the match started. I am not an official announcer or commentator. Thanks for watching!
Sorry but we have much better competition at Mckenzie Creek Pickleball courts. This seems like an easy match for our star players. It shows how good our competition is there.
Two great videos for pickleball. Hand coordination gained by juggling ruclips.net/video/BaXWuA_mxe0/видео.html and how to practice focusing on the ball ruclips.net/user/shortsO1egKCoZ3RM
Perfect example of just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. No other offense besides that spin serve - made me angry for the other team! Love the commentary on this vid, awesome channel!
I agree, the spin serve should have been illegal, felt bad for the opposing team. I find if a guy does that, just walk away, and say 'you win' and be done with it. It takes the enjoyment out not just for the opposing team, but for any spectators as well. I certainly would have had something to say to him, and probably would have used him as a target with a good serve to the body. A cheat is always a cheat.
@@creativestudio101 Longgg time ago...players were doing the same thing in ping pong......so it was decided that players could not do that anymore because it ruined the game.....This is not a circus with clowns playing...If you have skill use your racket....The decision to ban was correct.........
As a beginning player, I, too, focused on weaponizing the serve; however, serving aces is boring for most in rec play. I now change-up serves (and usually just pop it into play) to focus on the soft game. Yeah, I can still bend a kick serve, tho winning a point that way feels unsatisfying. I’m in this for FUN, so I try to play to the level of the foursome.
Well said, Pickleball is suppose to be fun, unless you are truly making $$ playing, then it's a business. I've served aces as well, and stopped doing so, as you could see the deflation in the other team. I choose to find the holes between players, or go down the line, giving them a fighting chance and working different hits as a challenge. Heck, I don't even have to win every game, as if it's a newer player in the particular grouping, I'll give them some easy shots, just so they can stay in the play and have fun!
Good attitude indeed. Most recreational play is to socialize and have some fun. If you serve in a way that the other team fails to return, the game will end in 5 minutes ... what's the point? @@Powerstroke98
It's amazing how that serve hopped so drastically to the right of the returner, when the server's paddle movement made it look like it should hop to the left! I played a guy hwo had that shot once.....they are really tought to return. Best to short hop them , and inch or two behind the bounce adn loft them down the middle....cut it off before they hop to the side......
Only two minutes into the match, I am asking myself out loud as to why the losing team (at this time) is playing to the man and not focusing on hitting all balls to the female as she is obviously the weaker opponent. In doubles, whether it is tennis or pickleball, if you want to win, AND THAT IS THE POINT OF ENTERING A COMPETITION.... TO COMPETE AND WIN, the SMART play is to play the weaker opponent regardless of age or gender.
Just learning about this game. I'm just wondering if somebody would put some modification in the racket to enhance the spin like what they do in Table Tennis using sandpaper or spongy rubber. Or perhaps it isn't allowed. I can easily see the edge of using a spin in competitive level.
I'm curious how well they will do when they no longer have that serve. It is undoubtedly a great serve but knowing that it was illegal in the past and will be illegal again would make me feel like I didn't really win.
I swear 95% of pros have illegal serves .. Rules officials really need to get that kind of stuff in check if this game is ever going to be taken more seriously.
Thanks for posting this video; fun to watch. The announcer did make a slightly confusing statement at 3:24 when he said that players will no longer be allowed to impart spin on a ball before they serve. A player can still hit a spin serve with their paddle, but cannot impart any spin on the ball with their hand prior to the paddle engaging the ball. This eliminates the chainsaw and finger spin serves, like the player in the video was doing.
I wasn't confused at all. He said you will not be able to spin the ball prior to hitting it . Isn't that the same thing that you said with different words? Having said this... I don't think I have ever seen a team make so many points because of that spin, before hitting the ball.
I'm glad that spinning serve becomes illegal with serve rule changes. As for national championships at 3.5 I maintain the same thought I had about similar tennis championships, all that happens is that you find the most badly rated players.
Eliminating that pre-spin serve is a good idea. It won't help the losing players of this match as that was their holden ticket but it will improve the game.
Personally, I never did understand how the spin serve was allowed to be used as the serve rules state the ball cannot be propelled up or down before the serve. The ball is clearly propelled in a spin serve which should have made it illegal to begin with.
You win the award for most ridiculous comment of the video. Why the hate on the guy for having a great serve? If a player takes the time, energy, effort and exhibits the determination to learn how to use a virtually unreturnable serve, why hate on him and why "ban" it in 2023? It's either a competition or it isn't. That's why it will always be a non-athletic p*ssy sport because they ban excellence and superior play so that no one can dominate others. Next, they will require those with less than 10% body fat to wear ankle weights and weighted vests so that they will be on equal ground as their fat senior competitors. And the weaker, less athletic people who never excelled at anything, presumably like yourself, cheer it on. People like you and your ilk will kill the potential of a possibly great sport.
I didn’t know the spin serve was illegal. A good player should be able to return that no problem, I am surprised at how poorly they do and I am not trying to be cocky at all.
First number is serving teams score, second number is the receiving teams score and third number is either a 1 designating the 1st server or 2 for the 2nd server 😊
@@hospicern2002 Thanks for clarifying but that sounds crazy. Kinda sounds like the association is trying to make pickle ball very different from tennis so they decided on a nuttty scoring system. Jmho
THIS is a gold medal 60+ match? LOL Our daily pickup games, mostly 60+, are significantly at a higher level, without question. Few volleys even go past 3-4 shots before an unforced error.
That spin serve is really annoying, and I'm glad it's banned-but the returning team could have had a lot more success by backing up more from the baseline. They're way too close considering what how deep he's putting that serve.
Most of the players I play with have no idea what the fundamentals are. They keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Hitting the ball with an open stance is a common mistake and starting the paddle too low is another.
You don't know what you're watching. These are 4.0+ players in the real world. They are sandbagging and the reason they are in the final of a 3.5 tournament bracket. they should no longer be allowed to compete at this level after winning and/or making the final. Time to move up to 4.0 and let other lower level players have a shot at the gold.
The only weapon that spin server has is his serve and his “muscle” shots. No finesse at all. Once the spin serve is gone for him not sure what else he has in his tool box.
I'm new to pickleball and saw this video for the first time...and I didn't see why "spin" serves should be illegal. However, up further review, the "purposeful pre-spinnings of the ball for serves are illegal". Probably for the same reasons that they are illegal in table tennis serves. This doesn't mean that spinning the ball with your paddle is illegal, it just means that you can't purposefully impart ball spin before contacting your paddle (for those of you who didn't quite understand or see this the first time - like me). Since I just started playing PB several months ago (post "illegal serve"), the only way I was taught to serve was without pre-spinning the ball so I didn't even know that "pre-spinning the ball for a serve" was a "thing". After reviewing the match (after seeing so many posts against Owen's "spin serves"), I can see how Owen pre-spins the ball with his fingers where it would be difficult for the opponents to see his intended ball spin vs. his natural motion. I was wondering why it was so hard for his opponents to determine the spin, but if you look closely at some of Owen's spins (sometimes opposite or neutralizing his natural swing/stroke of the ball), you could see why it could be difficult to return and is an unfair strategy. I'm all for spinning/pounding all you want with legal equipment (within new rules) and totally believe this was the right assessment - good job "governing pickleball association" and thanks Team Hanlon for sharing.
Some of us, can get the spin balls, but it still doesn't mean it doesn't piss us off Royally! It's just a deflation serve for players that have trouble with it, taking the fun away from the game. I've heard some say that 'so and so' left the game, because of what they call illegal play. Unfortunate I know, but some seem to have a hard time with them, and many that spin 'everything' might get 1 our of every 10, but often they end up going out, but the continue to do them.
I don’t fault the spinning server, since it’s still within the rules. I thought the receiving team (esp the male player since he had more success in returning the spin serve) should give some advice to his partner to cope with the spin, such as starting by taking a further step back from her usual receiving position. And if you watch the spin serve guy closely, his serving motion is different between balls bouncing to left via the right. They can talk about it in the 2 timeouts that they have.
Well, if you’re facing a spin serve, you can’t really step back too much because his serve spins to the left and right and he controls that. If you’re back too far, you can’t reach it. The vast way is to actually step up and almost short hop it (half volley) in tennis.
@@davidmayotte1542 this is why you want to also read into the serve motion, this way you can already take a half step in that direction even before the ball bounce on your side of the court. in my opinion, the problem with the lady not able to hit the balls is not because they are out of reach, but more in that she didn't have the time to react.
@@davidmayotte1542 They weren't doing either. Personally, I've had more success stepping back a bit to react to the movement. It's harder with the snap spin verses a spin toss as it's a little easier to read the spin on the latter.
@@davidmayotte1542 you’re right David I’m a 4.5 tennis player and my partner too, we know how to return the spin serve in tennis is coming in half volley before the ball bounce to left or right but in this case his serve is skid away either side. We know some thing to do with his hand but it’s night lights andI can’t see that far , we’re 60+ I’m lucky able to see the ball to return 😭
For those who don't understand why a serve like that is being banned don't understand the politics and business end of any sport. ALL sports evolve and generate RULES to make the game competitive to play and interesting to watch. As PB evolves, grows in popularity and is taken more seriously there will be dozens of rules changed to adapt. Also it's why you can't just show up with any old racquet you want there are 'rules' - 'standards', why is that? Have you seen the radical rule changes over the years in baseball to make it a more offensive game to encourage higher scores? Rules on how the pitcher can pitch, banned movements, banned grips, stances and now even pitchers and batters will be under time constraints. Rules to keep the game competitive both ways and they are always evolving, adapting to meet that expectation. Like banning the infield shift in baseball (2023 season), you cannot block the plate, slide into players intentionally, avoiding contact at the bases, Why? to allow teams to compete on a more even scale (and yes, in some cases to decrease injuries). All, at one point, were part of some team's strategies (ask Pete Rose). Hockey, lacrosse, have changed rules against certain sticks that gave players a huge advantage. At one time they were legal now they are not, and on and on. No one wants to watch (or play against) some trickster with a nearly impossible serve to return winning 11-0 game after game solely on the serves. Save it for exhibitions like one day maybe with the New 'PB Harlem Globetrotters' tour. Pros, who can train against it if they had too because they have countless hours of court time, video replay, trainers, coaches, equipment etc. to work against such odd, difficult and uncommon serves, 99% of the rest of us do not, but that is a waste of time and money even for the pros. Difficult enough training for the already standard plays. Look, I'm a competitor and believe in developing my skills to defend against tough players, but rarely would I be able to train and develop the skill necessary to defend against some new tricky, sneaky swing esp. during a tournament or in league play should that show up. No time to adjust and I'd be wasting away points trying to figure it out. So level the playing field, let players play with expected universal standards (like every other established sport in the world) and the better prepared team, in a fair fight, will prevail. Trust me (or not) you have not seen the last of game altering rule changes in this sport, not by a long shot. There's already talk of changing the balls and the scoring (more like tennis, easier for fans to follow), heck I even heard the name may change to be more appealing to draw interest across a more general audience. Welcome to progress, like it or not.
That just pretty much makes pickleball an even lower skill game than it already is, God... It really should have remained a pastime and not a "sport", like really...
@@MorphousInfinity I know.. and I don't have nothing against pickleball specifically, other "sports" that should have remained pastimes are baseball, golf, etc etc etc ha ha
The player names are Jacqueline Pham (green shoes) & Ed Tang (pink shirt) vs Denise DeSalvo & Owen Pilgrim (both in black). I happened to be nearby shortly before the match began and decided to stick around to record this video. I have no connection to any of the four players and didn't have time to ask their names before the match started. I am not an official announcer or commentator. Thanks for watching!
I deleted my comment and I apologize, I was rude and obviously didn't understand the situation. 🫤 carry on
Sorry but we have much better competition at Mckenzie Creek Pickleball courts. This seems like an easy match for our star players. It shows how good our competition is there.
The spin server is Torrey pilgrim according to DUPR
Two great videos for pickleball. Hand coordination gained by juggling ruclips.net/video/BaXWuA_mxe0/видео.html and how to practice focusing on the ball ruclips.net/user/shortsO1egKCoZ3RM
Perfect example of just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. No other offense besides that spin serve - made me angry for the other team! Love the commentary on this vid, awesome channel!
You're my kind of opponent. Bitch about how I would play and I'd love that. :)
@@scottysmediaproductions Kind of a weirdly aggressive kink.
I agree, the spin serve should have been illegal, felt bad for the opposing team. I find if a guy does that, just walk away, and say 'you win' and be done with it. It takes the enjoyment out not just for the opposing team, but for any spectators as well. I certainly would have had something to say to him, and probably would have used him as a target with a good serve to the body. A cheat is always a cheat.
here in 2024.. isn't that serve "Illegal now".. I'm sort of a newbie . and really don't know, but tought I read that.1
?@@Powerstroke98
Now that the spin serve is illegal, this guy is going to have to learn how to actually play pickleball.
It is illegal? Why is that? It should be legal for God's sake
@@creativestudio101 2023 rules, its illegal. Also, your tears are delicious.
@@PeterCacioppi lol, I’m glad it’s banned too.
4:45 the ball was in dumb biatch.
@@creativestudio101 Longgg time ago...players were doing the same thing in ping pong......so it was decided that players could not do that anymore because it ruined the game.....This is not a circus with clowns playing...If you have skill use your racket....The decision to ban was correct.........
Brutal serve from Owen. He's going to miss having that weapon in 2023.
Why won't be have it? Was there a rule change? (I'm a beginner so learning!)
@@meisemahlee Yes. As of Jan 2023 you are not allowed to impart spin on the ball with your hand before serving.
He'll have to actually do the work on his ground game instead of winning most points on his serve.
Let's see what happens when a spin serve is your whole game.
Hopefully the new rule was a wake up call to him to actually have to play the game by the rules
Nice job, fun game to watch. Glad that serve will no longer be allowed, at least at this level.
Looks like the spin serve is his only game.
Yup
interesting to see his ranking after the spin serve is no longer legal.
It definitely helps his game for sure but he had some great returns that were crisp and deep. I wouldn’t say it’s his only attribute.
I searched for this after seeing an ad for pickleball..... its ping pong meets tennis 😂 I LOVE IT
I’d be embarrassed to be using a serve that has already been ruled illegal. Just because you can still use it til January doesn’t mean you should.
As a beginning player, I, too, focused on weaponizing the serve; however, serving aces is boring for most in rec play. I now change-up serves (and usually just pop it into play) to focus on the soft game. Yeah, I can still bend a kick serve, tho winning a point that way feels unsatisfying. I’m in this for FUN, so I try to play to the level of the foursome.
What an ego geeze
What would you do in a tournament?
Well said, Pickleball is suppose to be fun, unless you are truly making $$ playing, then it's a business. I've served aces as well, and stopped doing so, as you could see the deflation in the other team. I choose to find the holes between players, or go down the line, giving them a fighting chance and working different hits as a challenge. Heck, I don't even have to win every game, as if it's a newer player in the particular grouping, I'll give them some easy shots, just so they can stay in the play and have fun!
Good attitude indeed. Most recreational play is to socialize and have some fun. If you serve in a way that the other team fails to return, the game will end in 5 minutes ... what's the point?
@@Powerstroke98
It's amazing how that serve hopped so drastically to the right of the returner, when the server's paddle movement made it look like it should hop to the left! I played a guy hwo had that shot once.....they are really tought to return. Best to short hop them , and inch or two behind the bounce adn loft them down the middle....cut it off before they hop to the side......
pickleball a competitive sport where you can start playing at 55 years old and still become a national ranked player the same year
It's 3.5 level
Dont look like 3.5
Thanks for this and the commentary with the score.
What a great sport for people who are out of shape. Whatever it takes to get us off our couches!
this comment is uncall for.😭
Only two minutes into the match, I am asking myself out loud as to why the losing team (at this time) is playing to the man and not focusing on hitting all balls to the female as she is obviously the weaker opponent. In doubles, whether it is tennis or pickleball, if you want to win, AND THAT IS THE POINT OF ENTERING A COMPETITION.... TO COMPETE AND WIN, the SMART play is to play the weaker opponent regardless of age or gender.
I love pickle ball
Take it on the short hop and don't let it bounce so far away before hitting it.
What type of camera gear did you use to record this match? It is very professional looking!
Just my phone! No equipment.
Great job by announcer..not a bunch of wasted “make noise” and spot on.
Thanks for the nice comment!
What is a spin serve ?
this is 3.0 level
Most of the gang from 60-80 at Brainerd, MN play at this level.
Damn. I play 4.0 and can’t even do the spin serve which is becoming illegal in January. Sand bagging here.
a few days of practice and anyone can leanrn the spin serve...hardly sandbagging. I never liked and have a good serve without it.
Were dinks not allowed in this match?
not much finesse in this one
It’s a heavy windy time drop shot doesn’t work and they’re only 3.5 players
They’re clearly 3.5 😂
Bangers gotta bang
No dinks only dunks
Glad to see that serve was outlawed!
How does yellowshoes get in a gold medal national match and have no idea how to adjust and return a serve?
Because she only 3.5 ! 😂
The yellow shoes woman get in the gold medal match because all other woman in the same bracket already got kick out by that serves!😂🤣
Just learning about this game. I'm just wondering if somebody would put some modification in the racket to enhance the spin like what they do in Table Tennis using sandpaper or spongy rubber. Or perhaps it isn't allowed.
I can easily see the edge of using a spin in competitive level.
The coefficient of friction on the paddle is regulated.
@@beemercycle I can see cheating the equivalent of using resin on baseball in the future.
@@beemercycleas is the rebound distance off the face
I'm curious how well they will do when they no longer have that serve. It is undoubtedly a great serve but knowing that it was illegal in the past and will be illegal again would make me feel like I didn't really win.
They didn't win. They lost.
I swear 95% of pros have illegal serves .. Rules officials really need to get that kind of stuff in check if this game is ever going to be taken more seriously.
Without that gimmick serve...they'd be two and out.
a perfect example of why the spin serve has been banned,,,the team with the guy that spin serves has no game other than that serve.
The "chainsaw serve" has been outlawed for 2023
Thanks for posting this video; fun to watch. The announcer did make a slightly confusing statement at 3:24 when he said that players will no longer be allowed to impart spin on a ball before they serve. A player can still hit a spin serve with their paddle, but cannot impart any spin on the ball with their hand prior to the paddle engaging the ball. This eliminates the chainsaw and finger spin serves, like the player in the video was doing.
Thanks for the clarification.
I wasn't confused at all. He said you will not be able to spin the ball prior to hitting it . Isn't that the same thing that you said with different words? Having said this... I don't think I have ever seen a team make so many points because of that spin, before hitting the ball.
@@thomasbarbey9316 I understand what you're saying. I think you are correct: it is the same thing being said differently.
I feel like he said exactly that but just in a different way.
@@brittanyblassingill After listening to the narrator a second time, I agree with you. (cf. above)
I dont think I was alone in routing against the spin serve team the entire time. They also tried to call in balls out several times. Yuck.
Wait....was this on the "Ocho?"
Did they just start playing as 3.5 or am I missing something?
Right. They're 3.0?
@@mojo8278 Agree. 3.0. The pink shirt guy’s team can’t even get to the NVZ half of the time to control the game.
Pink Shirt has a habit of moving in when he’s serving. Deep returns will curb that quickly.
These are 2.5 players, 3.0 at best.
Hard to believe at 3.5 there were almost no effective 3rd shot drops or dinking rallys. It looked like 3.0 play to me.
How is the gentleman in black at badminton?
How does one qualify for this nationals tourney?
The process is a bit complicated. The easiest way is for players to win gold at certain tourneys and get a golden ticket.
But why, mes amis, do the 'kitchens' not have suitable appliances in them ?
I'm continuing to watch and am speechless on how poor all 4 are.
Kereeeen.. 👍👍
The New Year that kick serve will be illegal. I need to try that for now though. 🤣
Take that serve away and I don't believe black team would make the finals
Yes, it appears that way.
I'm glad that spinning serve becomes illegal with serve rule changes. As for national championships at 3.5 I maintain the same thought I had about similar tennis championships, all that happens is that you find the most badly rated players.
Impressed with the lobs by the lady in black.
Huge crowd for the gold medal match!
Eliminating that pre-spin serve is a good idea. It won't help the losing players of this match as that was their holden ticket but it will improve the game.
Disagree with the announcer saying these could be 4.0's, don't get me wrong good 3.5's but no 4.0 would miss that many returns
Any good 3.5 player would be able to adjust to that spin serve after only 1 or 2 serves.
Is this a step above shuffleboard?
It's a step above being dead... Ha ha
So it’s tennis?
Personally, I never did understand how the spin serve was allowed to be used as the serve rules state the ball cannot be propelled up or down before the serve. The ball is clearly propelled in a spin serve which should have made it illegal to begin with.
That was great!!!👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾.
These are 3.5 players?
"both of these teams are very very good". I beg to differ
I have played with these two in Chula Vista
At Mackenzie?
I cheered out loud at 10:05! Good for Jacqueline!! And I laughed out loud at 15:55 and 17:20. Got what was coming to him!
Don't blame the player, blame the game 😁 He exploited something that was legal until 2023.
You win the award for most ridiculous comment of the video. Why the hate on the guy for having a great serve? If a player takes the time, energy, effort and exhibits the determination to learn how to use a virtually unreturnable serve, why hate on him and why "ban" it in 2023? It's either a competition or it isn't. That's why it will always be a non-athletic p*ssy sport because they ban excellence and superior play so that no one can dominate others. Next, they will require those with less than 10% body fat to wear ankle weights and weighted vests so that they will be on equal ground as their fat senior competitors. And the weaker, less athletic people who never excelled at anything, presumably like yourself, cheer it on. People like you and your ilk will kill the potential of a possibly great sport.
I didn’t know the spin serve was illegal. A good player should be able to return that no problem, I am surprised at how poorly they do and I am not trying to be cocky at all.
I never play this sport. I guess the ball is much lighter than a tennis ball (as the rackets don't use strings)
Does anyone know if or what the age limit is
I believe 190 years old is the cutoff.
So this game was developed for older folks right?
Play some people your own age and find out.
What does 7 10 2 or all the other 3 number scores mean
First number is serving teams score, second number is the receiving teams score and third number is either a 1 designating the 1st server or 2 for the 2nd server 😊
@@hospicern2002 Thanks for clarifying but that sounds crazy. Kinda sounds like the association is trying to make pickle ball very different from tennis so they decided on a nuttty scoring system. Jmho
It helps the more ‘mature’ crowd keep track of who is serving 😉
@@hospicern2002 haha
How are they 3.5 and can't handle that serve
Although the spin serve was actually legal his swing path was illegal several times.
I thought the rule was when serving you had to drop the ball, not throw it up ??
It’s interesting the crowd specifically likes the chainsaw serve. I always thought people enjoyed exciting rally’s with resets and whatnot
I disagree, as I was a spectator and. was ready to 'ring the fellows neck' (in my mind that is) for a cheat.
3.5 with a chain server? And 1:20 the announcer calls both teams sand-baggers. Interesting.
All 4 are at least 4.0
THIS is a gold medal 60+ match? LOL Our daily pickup games, mostly 60+, are significantly at a higher level, without question. Few volleys even go past 3-4 shots before an unforced error.
Can't believe that was even allowed at all? I know it is not allowed now, but how was that allowed before?
What are the players' names?
Jacqueline Pham (green shoes) & Ed Tang (pink shirt) vs Denise DeSalvo & Owen Pilgrim (both in black)
This looks like 3.5 play to me.
Why did they play to 15?
Weather delay earlier in the day caused a change to formats. Normally the gold medal match would be best of three to 11.
That spin serve is really annoying, and I'm glad it's banned-but the returning team could have had a lot more success by backing up more from the baseline. They're way too close considering what how deep he's putting that serve.
Where is the score indicator?
Can you believe he did not know there names.
To funny
Wow what a boring match. Lots of service aces, no long rallies. No wonder the spin serve will become illegal.
And the winners, each, get........a pickle; while the losers are in........ a pickle-so pick(le) your favorite team and let the Pickleball begin.
what is pickleball?
So pickleball is for people who doesn't want to run?
I thought that serve was illegal?
I just started playing pickleball two weeks ago and I already know that serve is illegal. Some people will do whatever it takes to win a game.
Most of the players I play with have no idea what the fundamentals are. They keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Hitting the ball with an open stance is a common mistake and starting the paddle too low is another.
Pickleball is all open stance. Nipples to net always.
These people are rated 3.5?
Is it odd that the PB announcer does not know their names????
Read the pinned comment.
Please Show an example of a legal serve in 2023
No way they are "closer to 4.0 players"
Spinning the ball prior to serving is like corking your bat in baseball. I'm glad it is stopping in 2023.
Wonder what 2023 rule change did to this gentlemen's game?
Looks like 3.0 to me.
You don't know what you're watching. These are 4.0+ players in the real world. They are sandbagging and the reason they are in the final of a 3.5 tournament bracket. they should no longer be allowed to compete at this level after winning and/or making the final. Time to move up to 4.0 and let other lower level players have a shot at the gold.
The only weapon that spin server has is his serve and his “muscle” shots. No finesse at all. Once the spin serve is gone for him not sure what else he has in his tool box.
His serve isn’t illegal. The one-handed pickleball pre-spun serve is now banned.
I'm new to pickleball and saw this video for the first time...and I didn't see why "spin" serves should be illegal. However, up further review, the "purposeful pre-spinnings of the ball for serves are illegal". Probably for the same reasons that they are illegal in table tennis serves. This doesn't mean that spinning the ball with your paddle is illegal, it just means that you can't purposefully impart ball spin before contacting your paddle (for those of you who didn't quite understand or see this the first time - like me). Since I just started playing PB several months ago (post "illegal serve"), the only way I was taught to serve was without pre-spinning the ball so I didn't even know that "pre-spinning the ball for a serve" was a "thing". After reviewing the match (after seeing so many posts against Owen's "spin serves"), I can see how Owen pre-spins the ball with his fingers where it would be difficult for the opponents to see his intended ball spin vs. his natural motion. I was wondering why it was so hard for his opponents to determine the spin, but if you look closely at some of Owen's spins (sometimes opposite or neutralizing his natural swing/stroke of the ball), you could see why it could be difficult to return and is an unfair strategy. I'm all for spinning/pounding all you want with legal equipment (within new rules) and totally believe this was the right assessment - good job "governing pickleball association" and thanks Team Hanlon for sharing.
Some of us, can get the spin balls, but it still doesn't mean it doesn't piss us off Royally! It's just a deflation serve for players that have trouble with it, taking the fun away from the game. I've heard some say that 'so and so' left the game, because of what they call illegal play. Unfortunate I know, but some seem to have a hard time with them, and many that spin 'everything' might get 1 our of every 10, but often they end up going out, but the continue to do them.
I thought you had to serve underhand?.
I don’t fault the spinning server, since it’s still within the rules. I thought the receiving team (esp the male player since he had more success in returning the spin serve) should give some advice to his partner to cope with the spin, such as starting by taking a further step back from her usual receiving position. And if you watch the spin serve guy closely, his serving motion is different between balls bouncing to left via the right. They can talk about it in the 2 timeouts that they have.
With serve his doing they could mitigate the damage by stepping back another foot. They didn't adjust their position to give more time.
Well, if you’re facing a spin serve, you can’t really step back too much because his serve spins to the left and right and he controls that. If you’re back too far, you can’t reach it. The vast way is to actually step up and almost short hop it (half volley) in tennis.
@@davidmayotte1542 this is why you want to also read into the serve motion, this way you can already take a half step in that direction even before the ball bounce on your side of the court. in my opinion, the problem with the lady not able to hit the balls is not because they are out of reach, but more in that she didn't have the time to react.
@@davidmayotte1542 They weren't doing either. Personally, I've had more success stepping back a bit to react to the movement. It's harder with the snap spin verses a spin toss as it's a little easier to read the spin on the latter.
@@davidmayotte1542 you’re right David I’m a 4.5 tennis player and my partner too, we know how to return the spin serve in tennis is coming in half volley before the ball bounce to left or right but in this case his serve is skid away either side. We know some thing to do with his hand but it’s night lights andI can’t see that far , we’re 60+ I’m lucky able to see the ball to return 😭
When the announcer says they are probably 4.0 - nah. They were 3.5. They weren’t cheating by playing down a level
More like solid 3.0
Yeah, I guess I was being generous :)
Good that spin serve is no longer allowed. They might have won but I do not respect that.
For those who don't understand why a serve like that is being banned don't understand the politics and business end of any sport. ALL sports evolve and generate RULES to make the game competitive to play and interesting to watch. As PB evolves, grows in popularity and is taken more seriously there will be dozens of rules changed to adapt. Also it's why you can't just show up with any old racquet you want there are 'rules' - 'standards', why is that? Have you seen the radical rule changes over the years in baseball to make it a more offensive game to encourage higher scores? Rules on how the pitcher can pitch, banned movements, banned grips, stances and now even pitchers and batters will be under time constraints. Rules to keep the game competitive both ways and they are always evolving, adapting to meet that expectation. Like banning the infield shift in baseball (2023 season), you cannot block the plate, slide into players intentionally, avoiding contact at the bases, Why? to allow teams to compete on a more even scale (and yes, in some cases to decrease injuries). All, at one point, were part of some team's strategies (ask Pete Rose). Hockey, lacrosse, have changed rules against certain sticks that gave players a huge advantage. At one time they were legal now they are not, and on and on. No one wants to watch (or play against) some trickster with a nearly impossible serve to return winning 11-0 game after game solely on the serves. Save it for exhibitions like one day maybe with the New 'PB Harlem Globetrotters' tour. Pros, who can train against it if they had too because they have countless hours of court time, video replay, trainers, coaches, equipment etc. to work against such odd, difficult and uncommon serves, 99% of the rest of us do not, but that is a waste of time and money even for the pros. Difficult enough training for the already standard plays. Look, I'm a competitor and believe in developing my skills to defend against tough players, but rarely would I be able to train and develop the skill necessary to defend against some new tricky, sneaky swing esp. during a tournament or in league play should that show up. No time to adjust and I'd be wasting away points trying to figure it out. So level the playing field, let players play with expected universal standards (like every other established sport in the world) and the better prepared team, in a fair fight, will prevail. Trust me (or not) you have not seen the last of game altering rule changes in this sport, not by a long shot. There's already talk of changing the balls and the scoring (more like tennis, easier for fans to follow), heck I even heard the name may change to be more appealing to draw interest across a more general audience. Welcome to progress, like it or not.
That just pretty much makes pickleball an even lower skill game than it already is, God... It really should have remained a pastime and not a "sport", like really...
@@creativestudio101 fastest growing “pastime” in America.🎉🎉🎉
@@MorphousInfinity I know.. and I don't have nothing against pickleball specifically, other "sports" that should have remained pastimes are baseball, golf, etc etc etc ha ha
Wasn't that an illegal serve back then?
No, this was before the rule change.
@@TeamHanlonPickleball And a good rule change that was... I learned how to do it, but it did not feel right.
That one team is clearly not 3.5
Playing 2.5 now that his cheater serve illegal