My partner and I stand wide when we are the returners. This gives my partner the entire court to hit his return. As soon as my partner returns the ball I move back into position. If we are serving and the other player’s partner hugs the line I hit my serve down the middle. This limits the options of where the returner can hit the ball without possibly hitting their partner.
There is only one position that as a returner you can’t hit and that’s a short wide angle. The problem is that angles create angles so if that’s the retainers choice of shot we now need to cover the angles it creates. One other thing when both players on the return team are moving it gives the player at the net less time to help cover in the event of a short return.
Giving my partner the option to drop, cross court, on the return (once in while) is what I like to do. Standing closer to the middle line, takes away that option for my partner. When my partner drives the return deep, (most of time), I have plenty of time to get into position (near the center line) from just off-court. @@BetterPickleball
@@BetterPickleball I don't think this is true when the serve nails the inside back corner, which turns position C into a better door than a window for the person making the return of serve. I like position B turned to the side to make it easier to watch my partner's shot. From there it only really takes one step over a 90 degree rotation to cover my side of the middle of the net, which I begin the moment the ball passes my shoulder.
I am left handed with a good slice drop serve. I have served from the position you are showing. I hit it at the non return person. He jumped up because he could not moved sideways and the ball went between his legs and landed in. His returning partner did not see the ball until it went between his legs and could not even hit it. The wind was blowing right to left and towards me. That helped the right to left movement of the ball. Did a similar serve from the left court with a left to right curve. The non returner did duck to their right and their partner did not return the ball in play. Next time they were back to position B
I would argue that if the returning partner in your scenarios didn't see the serve, regardless of where their partner was standing they were probably in the wrong position for the return. But if it's a serve that consistently works for you when you see someone in this position use it.
The player in A can adjust very quickly to where they are required after watching how/where the return is being played to, as soon as the ball is hit they move & can affect the opposition. Posn B&C can block returners options.
The C position is helpful for mixed doubles. I can help control where they sever to my wife. She's right handed. So when I hug that center line they often serve it to her stronger side... away from the middle. But as the comments mentioned. Its not a "always do this"...
When I'm serving from the Ad court (left) I tend to hit a rightward-spinning serve that goes over the net just left of middle but curving right so it has a chance to be a good serve just inside the court on the returner's right (their forehand assuming they are a rightie)- occasionally it hits the non-returner just after crossing the net and they protest that the shot never would have gone in (and we tend to play in more 'informal' play where the 'ball hit me' rule is not invoked) but in fact often I have enough 'right spin that it could have curved in (especially with wind blowing left-to right also) but its hard to judge because the ball never completed its entire flight path. In the past this has led to mild controversy at times and I felt that the non-returner is 'crowding' my service area (and of course blocking the receiver's view of the ball as noted in other comments above). However, as well put in this video, I can now see the 'intimidation' factor of the non-receiver getting closer to the center line (Position C) and am rethinking my positioning (maybe a B/C spot). As the skill level of our group advances, we get a little less neighborly, and we enforce the 'player hit by ball rule' more regularly. A lot of subtleties in this game (coming from a squash background) that are not evident when first starting out.
It depends on the team. If you watch Ben and AL or Collin they use a traditional stack using an off court position. If you watch other their distance to the centerline may vary based on the teams they are facing and their strengths and weaknesses. So it might be a little bit of B and sometimes C. But rarely if ever do you see A in pro play. In rec play all the time.
Server's partiner's initial position really depends upon a lot of things and is not a "always start here" decision. For example, If your serving partner has a really good cross court top-spin driver then guard against a down the line return. some servers really want you out of the way cause they use that spinny close to kitchen corner serve.
I like the B position, the C position leaves you susceptible to a strong 3rd shot drive to your backhand. But thanks for giving me something to think about.
How about this Tony? Stand at C with nearly wide open stance (almost perpendicular to net), watch serve... if it's down the middle, pivot forward on your left foot (closer to middle)...if it's wide, pivot back on your right foot (closer to side) to protect your backhand more. The end results will only be one step one way or the other (and only one small step on or off NVZ) but still give some protection down the line.
I think there is a hybrid to this. I tend to stand in position A to give my partner full view of the serve. In practice, I found that I was “screening” the serve and when playing against those with a more powerful serve, it gave my partner less time to react. Same goes if I was returning. If I have a clear line of sight, I can judge if the ball is coming with topspin, side spin which is important in playing a return. There’s nothing preventing me from moving to position B or C after my partner has made contact.
We’re glad you found something that you feel works better for you. We teach that the more movement you add, such as moving into a position from the side the more you increase the chance for error. Have fun out there!
My coach prefers the A position. He believes it give the forward player a better view of the service return shot which allows the forward player to move into a return position while protecting the down the line 3rd shot.
I think that is a good place to stand and it is a little intimidating. After that following the ball is a good strategy. Say your partner returns to the opposite court near the line and you see your opponent winding up for a line drive on your court. You will need to slide over following the ball. Too your partner will want to slide a little to protect the middle, moving as a unit.
You are correct in both things you mention. That's the problem with that type of return, angles create angles that you now have to defend and you are correct you will need to move to protect the line which leaves you unable to protect your partner who is moving to the NVZ.
Position A is best when your partner is going to return. You can make the line calls without turning too far around. Once I see what my partner return looks like, that's when you move. If my partner returns well and deep, I'm looking for the poach. If my partner returns weak and wide, I need to stay and protect the line. If my partner is slow, I need to cover all drops.
I don’t agree for 2 reasons. If you’re standing so close to the middle, you risk a down the line lob or drive or a drop in the right corner. 2nd, you cut off your partners ability to return cross court or even down the middle to the servers left foot. Isn’t it better to stay center and be able to cover a dow the line 3rd shot?? Side note, I had a rec player partner that always leaned into the middle and wouldn’t turn around to see where I was returning. I accidentally beaned my partner on a cross court return of serve.
Hey Ann thanks for you comments. Just a couple of thoughts. I don't want my partner to hit a sharp cross court return to the player in front of me. They have now created angles we need to cover. A return to the middle 3-4 feet from the baseline is primo for solves most of the issues your talked about in your post.
How about I rip a serve at the C position and they can’t get out of the way or they at least screen the receiver? Easy point? High risk but hi reward? I may get away with that once.
You might. If the returners partner isn’t paying attention. It’s called a Nasty Nelson and even when playing with him it didn’t happen too frequently. But that didn’t stop him from trying
Tony, Tony, Tony! Great advice. I think the non returning partner standing on the side is a carry-over from baseball. That's right baseball. Why does the runner on 3rd stand in foul territory? Cause if the batted ball hits them, it's a foul ball. Well, not so in pickleball, but folks still do it. It's crazy that folks do this. Great message. (Also, the non returning partner should watch the ball and check for short and wide serves.)
last thing IMHO you want to do is stand with your back to your partner, you need to watch the serve and see if they are 1. in trouble for the return based on the serve 2. what kind of shot did they make on the return(placement and depth, 3. how is their progress towards the NVZ. I cant any of that if my back is to them until the ball flies over the net.
You can do both. Stand in a position where you are engaged in the game and turn your head without turning your body to see what happens with the return. If you have limited mobility in your neck, then stand at an angle.
Good points in the video but i would also include, the issues drawn from this... Just as the receiver should move after the hit i feel the receivers partner should too. Its part of the game that must be learned. Whenever a player is playing position c, as server i take one step wide and serve a fast ball to the inside corner, or a curving angle shot to the kitchen corner. Have gained many points that way until the receivers partner learns to stop blocking the ball. By the way, the partner creates a margin of error to the servers advantage on his location. Good points from the video but i hope this also helps peoples game with just another option in your hit.
standing where you suggest places you in the way of a receiver's forehand top spin drive. placing you where you suggest requires the second player to turn to aid in catching out serves. placing you where you suggest opens the second plays backhand to be wide open.
Considering that Tony is left handed, isn't his ability to be in position C more effective than someone who is right handed? It's harder for a right handed person to cover the left side of the court so I would think that person might be more effective being in position B.
I stand in position B because I don't block my partners view of the serve, I can help my partner with line calls, I can move either way, even poach. I also give my partner better angles to hit their return. Standing in Position C limits my partner on the shots that they can take and blocks their view of the serve. They can really only return straight ahead. Hitting down the line takes away some time for them to get to the net.
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. As far as the return we recommend that it goes 4 feet from the baseline right in the center. If the returner hits the ball in front of them and it happens to be short the person at the NVZ cannot do anything to protect them. If they choose to hit an angle now the player at the NVZ on the return team is forced to move over to cover the angle. Angles create angles. As for the poach we agree with you, it might be a great time to poach but if you are in position C you have less chance of making an error because you don't have to move as much. Have fun!
This kind of conflicts with another video, suggesting b or c position, one, to give your partner more space to return the serve, you aren’t in the way, and two, so you can turn and track the ball without turning all the way around. So one answer is not a one fits all system.
I don't buy your philosophy. As soon as the ball clears the net I move to B. Not C because it leaves too much room for their return past my backhand. I agree that you don't want to screen your partner on the serve. Your engaged or not engaged comment is a stretch. And the comment about the nonreturmer msybe not making it back to the B potion in tome is a stretch.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment and as you say it's ok to disagree and you should always play the way you feel is best. But we're standing by what i shared in the video.
With you in position C I could hit a ball straight at you and still drop it on the center line. You are also blocking your teammates view of that serve for almost half of the balls flight. Too much risk for my taste. Position A allows you to monitor the kitchen line on the serve. Your opponents are a lot mentally stronger than you give them credit for.
There can be times that Position C is getting in the way of the returners view, that is a good point. Don't hug the centerline, if you stand a foot or two away from it that should give the returner enough of a sightline to follow their ball and have both of you in a more offensive position on court.
My partner and I stand wide when we are the returners. This gives my partner the entire court to hit his return. As soon as my partner returns the ball I move back into position. If we are serving and the other player’s partner hugs the line I hit my serve down the middle. This limits the options of where the returner can hit the ball without possibly hitting their partner.
There is only one position that as a returner you can’t hit and that’s a short wide angle. The problem is that angles create angles so if that’s the retainers choice of shot we now need to cover the angles it creates. One other thing when both players on the return team are moving it gives the player at the net less time to help cover in the event of a short return.
Giving my partner the option to drop, cross court, on the return (once in while) is what I like to do. Standing closer to the middle line, takes away that option for my partner. When my partner drives the return deep, (most of time), I have plenty of time to get into position (near the center line) from just off-court. @@BetterPickleball
@@BetterPickleball I don't think this is true when the serve nails the inside back corner, which turns position C into a better door than a window for the person making the return of serve. I like position B turned to the side to make it easier to watch my partner's shot. From there it only really takes one step over a 90 degree rotation to cover my side of the middle of the net, which I begin the moment the ball passes my shoulder.
I used to stand there but a more advanced teammate complained I was blocking their return and they could only return to their side of the court.
I am left handed with a good slice drop serve. I have served from the position you are showing. I hit it at the non return person. He jumped up because he could not moved sideways and the ball went between his legs and landed in. His returning partner did not see the ball until it went between his legs and could not even hit it. The wind was blowing right to left and towards me. That helped the right to left movement of the ball.
Did a similar serve from the left court with a left to right curve. The non returner did duck to their right and their partner did not return the ball in play. Next time they were back to position B
I would argue that if the returning partner in your scenarios didn't see the serve, regardless of where their partner was standing they were probably in the wrong position for the return. But if it's a serve that consistently works for you when you see someone in this position use it.
I hate when the player hugs the center line. I can not see the served ball until it is past my partner. It totally blocks my whole view.
As the returner you should adjust your position so you can clearly see the server regardless of where your partner is standing
Hit the opponent with the ball, it’ll be your point and they’ll stop doing it
The player in A can adjust very quickly to where they are required after watching how/where the return is being played to, as soon as the ball is hit they move & can affect the opposition. Posn B&C can block returners options.
Sure, that is an option!
The C position is helpful for mixed doubles.
I can help control where they sever to my wife.
She's right handed. So when I hug that center line they often serve it to her stronger side... away from the middle.
But as the comments mentioned. Its not a "always do this"...
It’s obvious that you are thinking about what to do. That’s the whole point
When I'm serving from the Ad court (left) I tend to hit a rightward-spinning serve that goes over the net just left of middle but curving right so it has a chance to be a good serve just inside the court on the returner's right (their forehand assuming they are a rightie)- occasionally it hits the non-returner just after crossing the net and they protest that the shot never would have gone in (and we tend to play in more 'informal' play where the 'ball hit me' rule is not invoked) but in fact often I have enough 'right spin that it could have curved in (especially with wind blowing left-to right also) but its hard to judge because the ball never completed its entire flight path. In the past this has led to mild controversy at times and I felt that the non-returner is 'crowding' my service area (and of course blocking the receiver's view of the ball as noted in other comments above). However, as well put in this video, I can now see the 'intimidation' factor of the non-receiver getting closer to the center line (Position C) and am rethinking my positioning (maybe a B/C spot). As the skill level of our group advances, we get a little less neighborly, and we enforce the 'player hit by ball rule' more regularly. A lot of subtleties in this game (coming from a squash background) that are not evident when first starting out.
Excellent observations. Analyze a situation and act accordingly!
How come all the pro's always stand on the outside edge then? I have not seen one stand next to the middle line?
It depends on the team. If you watch Ben and AL or Collin they use a traditional stack using an off court position. If you watch other their distance to the centerline may vary based on the teams they are facing and their strengths and weaknesses. So it might be a little bit of B and sometimes C. But rarely if ever do you see A in pro play. In rec play all the time.
Server's partiner's initial position really depends upon a lot of things and is not a "always start here" decision. For example, If your serving partner has a really good cross court top-spin driver then guard against a down the line return. some servers really want you out of the way cause they use that spinny close to kitchen corner serve.
Swinging serve will confuse the receiver and may get the body at position C. Position A allows to see the partner shot and make adjustments quickly.
Hey Mike, sorry for the confusion, we're talking about the return side.
I like the B position, the C position leaves you susceptible to a strong 3rd shot drive to your backhand. But thanks for giving me something to think about.
Thanks for the feedback, let me know how it goes if you give this positioning a try out there on the courts
How about this Tony? Stand at C with nearly wide open stance (almost perpendicular to net), watch serve... if it's down the middle, pivot forward on your left foot (closer to middle)...if it's wide, pivot back on your right foot (closer to side) to protect your backhand more. The end results will only be one step one way or the other (and only one small step on or off NVZ) but still give some protection down the line.
it adds a lot of movement where there really doesn't need to be movement.
I love it when there is someone hugging the center - it brings in the opportunity for a Nasty Nelson
Sure if returner isn’t paying attention and the server is trying to hit the returner that could happen
I think there is a hybrid to this. I tend to stand in position A to give my partner full view of the serve. In practice, I found that I was “screening” the serve and when playing against those with a more powerful serve, it gave my partner less time to react.
Same goes if I was returning. If I have a clear line of sight, I can judge if the ball is coming with topspin, side spin which is important in playing a return.
There’s nothing preventing me from moving to position B or C after my partner has made contact.
We’re glad you found something that you feel works better for you. We teach that the more movement you add, such as moving into a position from the side the more you increase the chance for error. Have fun out there!
@@BetterPickleball Fair point. Appreciate the tips. Cheers.
My coach prefers the A position. He believes it give the forward player a better view of the service return shot which allows the forward player to move into a return position while protecting the down the line 3rd shot.
Ok. I disagree for the reasons stated in the video.
I think that is a good place to stand and it is a little intimidating. After that following the ball is a good strategy. Say your partner returns to the opposite court near the line and you see your opponent winding up for a line drive on your court. You will need to slide over following the ball. Too your partner will want to slide a little to protect the middle, moving as a unit.
You are correct in both things you mention. That's the problem with that type of return, angles create angles that you now have to defend and you are correct you will need to move to protect the line which leaves you unable to protect your partner who is moving to the NVZ.
Sage advice for Say Seniors or novice play, I’d stand AB, with poaching and controlling the NVZ, ya
thanks for sharing
Position A is best when your partner is going to return. You can make the line calls without turning too far around. Once I see what my partner return looks like, that's when you move. If my partner returns well and deep, I'm looking for the poach. If my partner returns weak and wide, I need to stay and protect the line. If my partner is slow, I need to cover all drops.
Thanks for your input
I don’t agree for 2 reasons. If you’re standing so close to the middle, you risk a down the line lob or drive or a drop in the right corner. 2nd, you cut off your partners ability to return cross court or even down the middle to the servers left foot. Isn’t it better to stay center and be able to cover a dow the line 3rd shot?? Side note, I had a rec player partner that always leaned into the middle and wouldn’t turn around to see where I was returning. I accidentally beaned my partner on a cross court return of serve.
Hey Ann thanks for you comments. Just a couple of thoughts. I don't want my partner to hit a sharp cross court return to the player in front of me. They have now created angles we need to cover. A return to the middle 3-4 feet from the baseline is primo for solves most of the issues your talked about in your post.
I see you point! I think it's because I'm playing with less experience players and am getting away with it. Will practice this!!
You move over one step after the return . It's just an intimidation tactic.
How about I rip a serve at the C position and they can’t get out of the way or they at least screen the receiver? Easy point? High risk but hi reward? I may get away with that once.
You might. If the returners partner isn’t paying attention. It’s called a Nasty Nelson and even when playing with him it didn’t happen too frequently. But that didn’t stop him from trying
Tony, Tony, Tony! Great advice. I think the non returning partner standing on the side is a carry-over from baseball. That's right baseball. Why does the runner on 3rd stand in foul territory? Cause if the batted ball hits them, it's a foul ball. Well, not so in pickleball, but folks still do it. It's crazy that folks do this. Great message. (Also, the non returning partner should watch the ball and check for short and wide serves.)
That makes sense! Thank you!
last thing IMHO you want to do is stand with your back to your partner, you need to watch the serve and see if they are 1. in trouble for the return based on the serve 2. what kind of shot did they make on the return(placement and depth, 3. how is their progress towards the NVZ. I cant any of that if my back is to them until the ball flies over the net.
You can do both. Stand in a position where you are engaged in the game and turn your head without turning your body to see what happens with the return. If you have limited mobility in your neck, then stand at an angle.
Good points in the video but i would also include, the issues drawn from this...
Just as the receiver should move after the hit i feel the receivers partner should too. Its part of the game that must be learned.
Whenever a player is playing position c, as server i take one step wide and serve a fast ball to the inside corner, or a curving angle shot to the kitchen corner. Have gained many points that way until the receivers partner learns to stop blocking the ball. By the way, the partner creates a margin of error to the servers advantage on his location.
Good points from the video but i hope this also helps peoples game with just another option in your hit.
If that works for you keep at it!;)
standing where you suggest places you in the way of a receiver's forehand top spin drive. placing you where you suggest requires the second player to turn to aid in catching out serves. placing you where you suggest opens the second plays backhand to be wide open.
That close in makes me salivate at a couple of lobs, especially if you have players who are not adapt at running them down.
That's a great strategy for those players!
Good feedback Mike, what position do you like to use?
Considering that Tony is left handed, isn't his ability to be in position C more effective than someone who is right handed? It's harder for a right handed person to cover the left side of the court so I would think that person might be more effective being in position B.
It’s easier for him to use his forehand but the point is to interject yourself into the point.
I stand in position B because I don't block my partners view of the serve, I can help my partner with line calls, I can move either way, even poach. I also give my partner better angles to hit their return.
Standing in Position C limits my partner on the shots that they can take and blocks their view of the serve. They can really only return straight ahead. Hitting down the line takes away some time for them to get to the net.
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. As far as the return we recommend that it goes 4 feet from the baseline right in the center. If the returner hits the ball in front of them and it happens to be short the person at the NVZ cannot do anything to protect them. If they choose to hit an angle now the player at the NVZ on the return team is forced to move over to cover the angle. Angles create angles. As for the poach we agree with you, it might be a great time to poach but if you are in position C you have less chance of making an error because you don't have to move as much. Have fun!
It would of been nice to hear WHY that middle position is the best.
Maybe give the video a rewatch and check out the info at 2:40 :)
Sorry about the typos.
no worries
I would move after the serve
Have you ever been caught on that slide in or is that working for you?
Standing toward the middle puts you at risk of getting hit by errant serve losing points.
If they are paying attention to the server most players should be able to get out of the way.
This kind of conflicts with another video, suggesting b or c position, one, to give your partner more space to return the serve, you aren’t in the way, and two, so you can turn and track the ball without turning all the way around. So one answer is not a one fits all system.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments but very rarely do we adjust the position, for the reasons stated in the video ;)
Naughty Nelson target at A
Nasty Nelson ;)
I don't buy your philosophy. As soon as the ball clears the net I move to B. Not C because it leaves too much room for their return past my backhand. I agree that you don't want to screen your partner on the serve. Your engaged or not engaged comment is a stretch. And the comment about the nonreturmer msybe not making it back to the B potion in tome is a stretch.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment and as you say it's ok to disagree and you should always play the way you feel is best. But we're standing by what i shared in the video.
Has anyone ever been hit by their partners' return of serve? No, stand in there and pressure the third.
Although that can happen, it's rare so yes, hold steady and put a little pressure on your opponents just by having a presence
With you in position C I could hit a ball straight at you and still drop it on the center line. You are also blocking your teammates view of that serve for almost half of the balls flight. Too much risk for my taste. Position A allows you to monitor the kitchen line on the serve. Your opponents are a lot mentally stronger than you give them credit for.
There can be times that Position C is getting in the way of the returners view, that is a good point. Don't hug the centerline, if you stand a foot or two away from it that should give the returner enough of a sightline to follow their ball and have both of you in a more offensive position on court.