I'm currently on a 2nd floor 3 day flood test,.. because I flooded Monday morning (8am), plumber lost the permit info (left it on the jobsite), never called in for an inspection, and didn't let me know until Tuesday (9:30am). I found the permit info, called in for a Wednesday inspection. Inspector forgets to stop at my project today (Wednesday), ugh. So now inspector says he get there first thing tomorrow (Thursday) morning. Not happy about it because I have the same concerns you have about the Kerdi seems. So far I have seen no sign of water getting through down to the main level and the water level has stayed constant. Great videos, keep it up.
This is a good video for people to consider if they have a flood condition after a hurricane or levee break. You can have a good ideal of what to expect to replace in your house.
Hey Isaac. I really like what you have done for us and the building industry . A more scientific way of testing the products. I really appreciate the time and money you guys have spent on these video. Thanks. So, in this case. Would you agree the best and safe method of doing the shower stand would be the traditional vinyl pan liner and aquadenfence on top and around the cement board wall? (with fiberglass around all the corners and seams)
My schluter rep says they wont warranty a shower that is used with ardex. However, the ardex rep says that they will cover everything, even if used on kerdi. Why arnt you using the all set mortar?
I really appreciate you putting these videos out. We build our showers I guess what’s considered the traditional way and I always wondered if there was a better way. I know this system is popular and I wondered if it was as good as they say. If thin set wicks water why wouldn’t it wick under the Kerdi? Do you have a preferred method of building your showers?
Isaac Ostrom give truegard a shot. I really like their system plus the sealant/caulk they sell, it is a second tier of water proofing. I might do a mock-up and do an extreme test on it
Right On With Jon Crane I researched this as I thought it would be the best way to seal corners (easier than Kerdi Fix; though I note that Issac did not seal these joints at all). No clear answer; the concerns are that the kerdi membrane is designed to bond to unmodified thin set and it may not bond to a rubberized liquid membrane (aka will AD bond strongly to Kerdi, or will it peel away), and that Mapei says use a modified thin set w AD, while Schluter uses unmodified with their products. I stuck w Kerdi Fix for the extra sealing.
@@TileCoach Not familiar with the ardex line but it appears you used a modified thin set for the test. So one would assume since you went against the directions it would fail. I have gone to using schluters line of thin sets just so there is no finger pointing if there ever is a problem. My distributor stocks the full line now.
I will stick with wedi because in one day I can completely build a custom shower ready to tile. I am way more than willing to pay the extra amount of money for the materials to save couple days and labor no problem. Not only that you can water test 30 minutes after you finish building it.
You need a unmodified thinset when using schluter products. Modified thinset wont dry because the latex/polymers are trapped between the membrane and cant cure fast enough especially in this high stress test like this.
Yes I'm concerned based on your testing, the first shower install I did was over 12 years ago on green board, I used a urethane grout which I'm thinking would be less penetrable. Maybe a test with tile and a grout ie tru color vs portland based would have better results. Thanks for the video!
Sorry, but my professional opinion is that there is no Difference between drywall, green board or purple board. Ya, they might have a coating on them, but they are all still covered with paper. Either way, those boards will wick moisture because of the paper. USG makes a paperless drywall intended for wet areas. No paper, no weeping, no mold.
I don't use kerdi but i have used it before. The first time i used it, i flood tested it for like 3 or 4 days and it passed the flood test. I used schluter all set thinset. I don't like kerdi showers but i wonder if your mockups are failing because you're using the wrong thinset or maybe you have to use schluter thinset like i did in order for it to work. It's a mystery lol
But Ardex x5 is not unmodified thin set. ARDEX X 5TM is a versatile, polymer-modified thin set. It meets ANSI 118.4 and 118.11. If you do not use Schluter thin set installing Kerdi you could use other unmodified thin set only.
Thanks for this. It is surprising but not that surprising. All material technologies have their limits. You've just given Schluter motivation to update their product. For my next project I'm going with Wedi.
The floor membrane should go up the wall a min. of 6" (regardless of what Schluter says), with these test we can see that the solution would be to MINIMIZE the number of bands, corners, joints, etc etc....Thats how I do it with Trugard - All other overlaps should be 3"
Also, is funny how the blame is put on the thinset....I am sure the membrane itself works well, I think the problem is the number of joints.....you should do a test withe the method I mentioned above
Also, you're using modified thinset. The kerdi directions say specifically to use unmodified. I still don't think modified or not, that this would have held. They're selling you felt for hundreds
My take away.... don't use x5 regardless of what ardex says...it's gotta be something with the light weight and maybe airpockets that make it wick like that...I always use laticrete 317 or the schluter thinsets with kerdi or ditra...and for the doubters yes unmodified stick just fine to porcelain.😎 I enjoy your tests Isaac 👍👍
With all the shit you be talking, you finally posted a video, 3 videos! Good for you! Me!?? Im a consumer i watch these videos for entertainment maybe ill diy my bath but for now i just watch learn. How about you post on starrtile videos again so i can was watch the fallout. This bomb is worthless here, bro! 👍
Great video Im still not sold on the Kerdi system even before your test I have done alot of the Wedi systems they are a great system more money then Kerdi though the downfall I see in Kerdi my opinion is all the seams as in Wedi caulking inside and outside the seams and caulk is superior I got it on my hands would not come off for days
Jajajajajaj , this is crazy, top products don’t work??? I bet that any product can go wrong top products or low products , but I’m sure that the way of everybody is work make the difference !!!!
Развлечения
I'm currently on a 2nd floor 3 day flood test,.. because I flooded Monday morning (8am), plumber lost the permit info (left it on the jobsite), never called in for an inspection, and didn't let me know until Tuesday (9:30am). I found the permit info, called in for a Wednesday inspection. Inspector forgets to stop at my project today (Wednesday), ugh. So now inspector says he get there first thing tomorrow (Thursday) morning.
Not happy about it because I have the same concerns you have about the Kerdi seems. So far I have seen no sign of water getting through down to the main level and the water level has stayed constant.
Great videos, keep it up.
This is a good video for people to consider if they have a flood condition after a hurricane or levee break. You can have a good ideal of what to expect to replace in your house.
Hey Isaac. I really like what you have done for us and the building industry . A more scientific way of testing the products. I really appreciate the time and money you guys have spent on these video. Thanks.
So, in this case. Would you agree the best and safe method of doing the shower stand would be the traditional vinyl pan liner and aquadenfence on top and around the cement board wall? (with fiberglass around all the corners and seams)
I wonder if an anti freeze or permeability reducing additive will lessen capillary action?
My schluter rep says they wont warranty a shower that is used with ardex. However, the ardex rep says that they will cover everything, even if used on kerdi. Why arnt you using the all set mortar?
I really appreciate you putting these videos out. We build our showers I guess what’s considered the traditional way and I always wondered if there was a better way. I know this system is popular and I wondered if it was as good as they say. If thin set wicks water why wouldn’t it wick under the Kerdi? Do you have a preferred method of building your showers?
Isaac Ostrom give truegard a shot. I really like their system plus the sealant/caulk they sell, it is a second tier of water proofing. I might do a mock-up and do an extreme test on it
Thanks Isaac like I said before I’m 100 percent done with Kerdi , was done with it before I saw your videos but this is the final nail ✌🏽
Would you recommend a water barrier like red guard or a laticrete coating?
Wow .how long was the cure,before adding water,
Shouldn't the band be on top of the joint . So you put the ottom piece in , side piece in then you put the band in for the joint ?
what is the humidity there? possible evap? maby make a control in plastic container?
I'm getting ready to have a tile shower installed this makes me wonder if I should just put a shower pan in .
Why not use Kerdi and then put on a coat of aqua defense? Is that a good way to go?
Right On With Jon Crane
I researched this as I thought it would be the best way to seal corners (easier than Kerdi Fix; though I note that Issac did not seal these joints at all). No clear answer; the concerns are that the kerdi membrane is designed to bond to unmodified thin set and it may not bond to a rubberized liquid membrane (aka will AD bond strongly to Kerdi, or will it peel away), and that Mapei says use a modified thin set w AD, while Schluter uses unmodified with their products.
I stuck w Kerdi Fix for the extra sealing.
As a tile installer I like your test. Do the directions not specify unmodified or any of schluters thin set when applying kerdi over solid backing?
@@TileCoach
Not familiar with the ardex line but it appears you used a modified thin set for the test. So one would assume since you went against the directions it would fail.
I have gone to using schluters line of thin sets just so there is no finger pointing if there ever is a problem. My distributor stocks the full line now.
He did use modified but Ardex states that their modified doesn’t need to breath to dry making it acceptable for almost any kind of substrate.
I will stick with wedi because in one day I can completely build a custom shower ready to tile. I am way more than willing to pay the extra amount of money for the materials to save couple days and labor no problem. Not only that you can water test 30 minutes after you finish building it.
You need a unmodified thinset when using schluter products. Modified thinset wont dry because the latex/polymers are trapped between the membrane and cant cure fast enough especially in this high stress test like this.
You seem smart. Also, modified thinset has latex which is organic And is a food source for mold!
Yes I'm concerned based on your testing, the first shower install I did was over 12 years ago on green board, I used a urethane grout which I'm thinking would be less penetrable. Maybe a test with tile and a grout ie tru color vs portland based would have better results. Thanks for the video!
Sorry, but my professional opinion is that there is no Difference between drywall, green board or purple board. Ya, they might have a coating on them, but they are all still covered with paper. Either way, those boards will wick moisture because of the paper. USG makes a paperless drywall intended for wet areas. No paper, no weeping, no mold.
Canton area?
I don't use kerdi but i have used it before. The first time i used it, i flood tested it for like 3 or 4 days and it passed the flood test. I used schluter all set thinset. I don't like kerdi showers but i wonder if your mockups are failing because you're using the wrong thinset or maybe you have to use schluter thinset like i did in order for it to work. It's a mystery lol
But Ardex x5 is not unmodified thin set. ARDEX X 5TM is a versatile, polymer-modified thin set. It meets ANSI 118.4 and 118.11. If you do not use Schluter thin set installing Kerdi you could use other unmodified thin set only.
Thanks for this. It is surprising but not that surprising. All material technologies have their limits. You've just given Schluter motivation to update their product. For my next project I'm going with Wedi.
The floor membrane should go up the wall a min. of 6" (regardless of what Schluter says), with these test we can see that the solution would be to MINIMIZE the number of bands, corners, joints, etc etc....Thats how I do it with Trugard - All other overlaps should be 3"
Also, is funny how the blame is put on the thinset....I am sure the membrane itself works well, I think the problem is the number of joints.....you should do a test withe the method I mentioned above
perfect vid. what do you think of custom building products megalite.??
@@TileCoach u may want to "love" my comment! LOL
you rock. try custom building products megalite (orange / white bag) and test.
@@TileCoach thanks
Why not use Ditraset?
You can use whatever is thinset so you want, but if you don't use it as a system most the time you will not get a warranty.
@@TileCoach 100% allset makes it easy to no worries about having to get Mot and Unmot all the same,
Schluter "All set" mortar preferred
Great thinset! Mixes creamier And longer pot life it seems. If it starts to slump, just remix with no additional water.
Issac, is the Ardex that you are using modified?
@@TileCoach thanks isaac! You have great videos
@@TileCoach are you not worried about mold growing by Introducing food? Really wondering
Also, you're using modified thinset. The kerdi directions say specifically to use unmodified.
I still don't think modified or not, that this would have held. They're selling you felt for hundreds
Try the product from the company call LIP, they have cement based and the VS 30 waterproff...
My take away.... don't use x5 regardless of what ardex says...it's gotta be something with the light weight and maybe airpockets that make it wick like that...I always use laticrete 317 or the schluter thinsets with kerdi or ditra...and for the doubters yes unmodified stick just fine to porcelain.😎
I enjoy your tests Isaac 👍👍
Tec ultimate 6 plus works very well.
Is it safe to assume that you have no issues with properly installed kerdi board for a tub/shower surround?
Starr tile doesn't trust other tile setters opinions lol...but wants everyone to listen to his! That's hilarious
He's a laughing stock!!! Lmao!!!
With all the shit you be talking, you finally posted a video, 3 videos! Good for you!
Me!?? Im a consumer i watch these videos for entertainment maybe ill diy my bath but for now i just watch learn.
How about you post on starrtile videos again so i can was watch the fallout.
This bomb is worthless here, bro! 👍
Wow this is shocking.Ardex will warranty a schluter shower with using all of there setting and grouting materials.And so will other companies
I have had problems with any method in the field. I am a firm believer that no matter the method use all the same brand products.
Great video Im still not sold on the Kerdi system even before your test I have done alot of the Wedi systems they are a great system more money then Kerdi though the downfall I see in Kerdi my opinion is all the seams as in Wedi caulking inside and outside the seams and caulk is superior I got it on my hands would not come off for days
Yes 100 % is what we aim for on waterproofing of showers keep making your videos 👍
I have flooded out many schluter shower with using ARDEX and LATICRETE Setting materials with no leaks
Isaac Ostrom Yes But I flood my shower for 24hours minimum and no leaks so far
Jajajajajaj , this is crazy, top products don’t work???
I bet that any product can go wrong top products or low products , but I’m sure that the way of everybody is work make the difference !!!!