What makes a recording sound great?
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2020
- Great recorded sound is tough to define, but when musicians were all together, listening to each other in real time, I'm engaged.
This episode was in part inspired by a recent Rick Beato video, • Why BOOMERS Hate POP M...
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“I find it so amazing when people tell me that electronic music has no soul. You can’t blame the computer. If there’s no soul in the music, it’s because nobody put it there.”
- Björk
The song Jóga by björk is absolutely a blow to my soul, the vocals in that track are absolute reference material as well. The soul is very much imbued in all her albums.
Amen!
My fave by her is ''Venus as a Boy''. Soul.
Dale Chalfont I had to come back to comment and thank you. Added it to my playlist after reading and just listened for the first time. Didn’t expect to like it so much but wow! I’m in love with this song, struggling to find more of hers that are similar to me. Also the credits on that track are insane
@@luke.boxall no problem. I have all her albums and although in recent years haven't had as much time for music, whenever I listennto a bjork album it always takes me somewhere far away, a lot of her more recent albums are very electronic and dark but the songs are beautiful and they always have great string instruments etc. You should listen to 'all is full of love' by bjork, there are 2 very different versions, the one you want is from the single for that song, it's a much more lush and classical sounding. It's mindblowing.
I just love listening to music. When you can feel the artist’s gift in their music, it moves me. I’m 62 and grew up with the Beatles. Love their music. As well as many others. I appreciate when a band plays as one. You can hear it when it’s there. It’s this passion that comes through in great music.
I have been watching for a while, and I have never really felt like I should comment on anything, but today, I just wanna say Thank you for making this video. I'm 46 years old, I have been an Audiophile since I was 3 years old, literally...and I too cringe deeply at the deafening inhumanity of modern Pop music. What bothers me most about it is, if present day artist claim people like Stevie Wonder and Quincy Jones as influences, but they are cranking out such utter machinery, what will those who will claim the current artist as influences be cranking out?,.. Radio sattic? A consideration so gruesome it boggles the mind.
👍
I have enjoyed radio static and love the grunge from LP surface noise. Late to the game. I started listening seriously at 5. I'm 69 now.
Have to wait and see what happens in other genres. Pop influences more pop, of course, but big steps happen when pop absorbs (colonizes?) harder nonmainstream genres.
You pretty much nailed.
I want to be able to detect a real musician, playing an instrument, in a real acoustic space.
Even many albums from the 70's, that had plenty of studio manipulation (overdubs, delay, panning, etc, etc) , behind it all, you could still hear real musicians.
Hi Steve - I've been enjoying your videos for some time, but when I watched this video, it was as if you were speaking my own words. The recording philosophy you mention - live-in-studio recordings of complete bands in a single space is exactly what we do at our label. Last year, we released a record of Cuban Trova recorded on location in Santa Clara, Cuba in this very way. I agree with you that "everyone in a room" is magic, and it's something missing from almost all contemporary recordings.
I think for me what makes a stand out recording is if all the elements are given room to breathe, so you can pick up on all the little details, the rattle of the snare, the rasp of the vocals.
I used to watch with fascination the sound spectrum of Steely Dan recordings (back when iTunes had parametric equalizer visualizers). The whole spectrum from low bass to the 16kHz treble were always alive and fairly flat. Just a broad and full soundscape with great clarity. Never overloaded, and very pleasing.
Great shout out for Rick Beato. You two are my favourite (only?) music info combo.
One of my favorite live recordings is Deep Purple Made in Japan. It just has this natural real sound to it, errors and all. Good dynamics, but not extreme. Great soundstage. It really makes you feel like you were there. My favorite studio recording is Yes Fragile. Just wow. So detailed and layered. Never get tired of listening to it.
Have you heard the Steven Wilson remix of Fragile? He brought out all the sounds with clarity but without succumbing to the loudness war.
Listing to that the other day. Really holds up
Craig Messerman I just listened to it. I don’t really like it at first listen. Seems to have drained to dynamics out of it. 🙁
Fantastic commentary, thank you Steve.
I agree with you but I also think this is the way the industry wants it, with customers trained to expect robotic music. The industry doesn't want to rely on geniuses coming along like the Beatles, Abba, Led Zeppelin etc., they want a consistent predictable production line, which is what we have these days.
This why I believe there is so much interest in shows like "The Voice ", "America's Got Talent " and "American Idol ".
The industry on whole is looking for contestants, not artists.
The production line aspect of Pop has been around since the late 50s. You heard what he was saying about Motown. That's Henry Ford's approach, right? In New York the Brill building and Phil Spector were working that way. God knows Nashville worked that way all through the 60s and 70s. To me, pop has always sounded like a softening or a taming of a more-wild parent form. Even before rock I'm thinking of the way the 40 and 50s Rat Pack made Cab Calloway and Big Joe Turner easy on the ears. Up until the mid 80s pop had been taming rock. Contemporary pop though, softens a blend of HipHop, House, and Techno, basically a lot of forms that don't have much to do with rock and roll and a lot to do with dance music; locked timing and layers of mechanized loops are where it's at for the kind of dancing this music came out of. That's the way it sounds to me, anyway.
Why are cool bands not as popular as pop singers any more? In the 90's Garth Brooks, Michael Jackson, MC Hammer, Right said Fred "I'm too sexy" and Nirvana, Smells Like Teen Spirit were all in the top 10 together. Now, it would be Justine B, Billie E, a rapper, a hip hop artist, and few R&B Divas. Where's the cool interesting band like Nirvana next to these pop stars? In the 80's Madonna and U2 and Police were in the top 10. Pop along side cool and interesting. In the 70's, Led Zep and Who in top 10 alongside ABBA. In 60's, the Motown and male pop idols alongside Hendrix and Beatles/Stones. Some of the similar cool interesting groups today have 1 mil views and streams and the pop stars today have 1 bil views and streams. The interesting cool groups are not even close to being the same as the pop stars and in fact can't even make a living. Only their die hard fans know who they are and the pop fans have no clue. In the 90's every 10 yo to 100 yo knew who Nirvana was even though they listened to Rap and bubblegum. This disparity tat occurred sometime after 2000 confuses me. I don't want pop to die, I want it equal again where pop and cool interesting are equally as popular.
@@postworld1185 The rise of indie bands, labels, and distro in the 90s killed corporate rock. So pop set its sights elsewhere, on dance music and some strands of hip-hop. Unlike rock, pop isn't as dependent on intimate groups of people developing a sound in real time. Pop gets handled like an assembly line with the goal being to sell. The mechanization in most dance music and hip hop, in turn, make for a great foundation.
@@postworld1185 Listen to Carly Rae Jepsen. You know that singer who made that horrible hit "Call me Maybe?". Well, she released a bunch of exemplary records since and nobody talks about them! Her record "Emotion" is extremely complex, dynamic and fun. For a mainstream pop artist, she's a positive outlier. But nobody cares. People like to complain about how terrible current music is instead.
My favorite type of recording is close miked instruments with my room taking care of the ambiance.
Most recordings have instruments spread out in the stereo image. With vocal in center.
There is a great 2015 documentary “Miss Sharon Jones” that shows the Daptone studios and talks about the recording process. Worth watching.
When it comes to studio albums it’s not just the feeling of a live act that I’m looking for. I don’t mind a “heavily produced” album so long as it comes through in the end product that real people/artists have had their hands on all parts of the process from writing, performing and post production/editing. As a fan of Radiohead one of my favorite things to me are their “from the Basement” recordings/videos. When listening to the studio albums from OK Computer and after you would think there would be no way for them to replicate the songs anywhere close when playing live. But having seen them in concert and those from the basement videos now, you get just how much they can do with 5 band members and an occasional assist from Nigel to get all of the textures, effects, bleeps and bloops and everything else from those studio tracks in a live performance. Amazing stuff.
Basement videos great example of live band action.
I love the "Direct to Disc " recorded records. They were dynamic and real. One could even hear a mistake occasionally or the tapping of a foot on the floor during the recording.
Hi Steve! Love this channel. Just spinning up on the channel, thought I'd pause and say a few words - My kids now in their 20's grew up with earbuds and digital music built on a grid. Both are musicians, but it was only when I rebuilt my listening room filled it with audiphile quality gear and sat them down in the middle of the triangle to experience a real soundstage image..closed eyes, singer in the middle, you can hear the musicians position and intensity in the field - was a real eye opener for both of them. Now they come to visit and bring music samples to hear on Dad's system...But not the top 40, eclectic stuff - jazz, instrumentals, progressive stuff, large choirs - they can now "Hear" the depth of the music, the skill of the producer..Great sound moves me more than any other sense..it will never go out of fashion - at least, not for those who know the difference beteeen ipod earbuds and say my Marantz 2270 and Cornwalls, or my Mac seperates with Altec Model 15's, or my Pioneer sx 1250 and Yamaha NS-690's...
I'm enjoying the energy of live performance in recordings more and more. And how pieces evolve over the years, as the artists and their sidemen and women change. And of course the atmospherics inherent in the different venues at different moments. Among many, many others Jeff Beck is great to exemplify this idea.
So true Steve - for me it’s the same as you the illusion of the band playing together but I also appreciate rich sound quality that brings it to life. So when I turn it up they are cranking out a live performance right in front of me in the comfort of my home. I’ve heard recordings that are just so entirely realistic and others that aren’t even playable.
This is my first time here, so thank you, for an interesting, well delivered and honest precis on a subject that may incite fierce debate. I am lucky enough to have enjoyed live concerts in the UK during the '60's / '70's and I readily admit to enjoying music that is not pitch perfect or clinical. It was those raw individual nuances of the musicians that I learned to both enjoy and desire as an audience member.
Welcome!
I became a big fan of your channel during the Corona time, Steve. And at the same time, in March I learned to appreciate Rick Beato's channel. It's wonderful that with this video I know that you are familiar with his channel as well.
The best thing I appreciate about your attitude is that you always put the music, the experience, the emotions first. Many others do purely technical tests with devices as well. That has less use for me than your reviews. But I am even more interested in the topics like in this video.
Back to the topic, independent of the music, in my opinion the best jazz recordings are those of the 60s. It was the joint session, but also the sound aesthetics. So what makes, for example, a 1962 recording with the Art Farmer/Benny Golson Jazztet so beautiful. First of all, of course, the music. But then the timbres of the wind instruments and partly this was not the primitive ping pong stereo but the whole recording room in one piece. And that is where an important moment comes into play. Because the band made good music the timing was sensational. And real timing, i.e. the tension between e.g. cymbal and double bass and soloist can only be captured if they play in the same room at the same time. As a side note, in my opinion such recordings sound best on loudspeakers whose principle originates from the same era, great Klipsch, alnico Tannoy etc.
I am looking forward to watch many more episodes of your channel, Steve.
Heinz R. Cologne, Germany
For me what makes a recording sound great is to be able to hear each instrument individually and to be able to zoom in on that instrument or voice and hear the notes or beats as they would sound live.
I am totally with you! I relish a recording that sounds like (even if it ain't!) people getting together in a room and playing. I love the feeling of a space populated by people. Reordings that get the hairs on the back of my neck to rise are those that bring the players into your room.
My favorite audiophiliac video so far, and I enjoyed many of other ones, so that's saying something. Steve explained a very complicated thing, our relationship to recorded music, in a simple but not simplistic way. BTW, I dig Beato's channel too and many of the music Steve talks about in his recordings so you can understand where I am coming from.
Thanks
Apart from live recording I really enjoy music with really black and dead silent backgrounds. Can be electronic music or acoustic or classic or some classic rock but when you can savor each note and drum beat individually and really hear the reverb of the instrument against a black background that does it for me.
You hit the nail on the head with this video. A great recording starts out with the music itself. I think we can overlook some flaws in the recording and still be immersed in the sound. I also think that the lack of music education in schools is a factor in the uninteresting pop music of today. If younger people are not exposed to quality music and sound reproduction than it stands to reason that they are satisfied with the stuff being offered. It wasn't until an art teacher back when I was in junior high school had the class listen to the Lt Kije suite by Prokofiev and then have us drawer a picture of how we perceived the music. That was the beginning of my musical journey. And yes, I love Billie Eilish too.
I don't think I am an audiophile, but when I heard supertramp crime of the century in 1977, I thought it was awesome then. And still awesome today. I was 13 years old then, I would say I enjoy a small sampling of modern pop music. I enjoy what I would describe as depth, variation, lyrics that are varied telling a story, a song that brings out an emotional connection.
well, as a musician, the first and foremost thing is the songwriting.if the song sucks, no amount of equipment and/or the recording process will help. Whether its the hooks, the tune, the lyrics, it has to pull you in. For instance, the Beatles were not the greatest musicians, although they were pretty damn good, in the end, it was the craft of the song.Secondly, as you stated, the group and how the play together, whether its one take or ten. There is something to be said for passion, and the ability to "play together" As an added note, as an old man, 65, I was exposed to so many didfferent types of music on the radio when I was young, just the top 40 alone, we had rock, jazz, gospel, classical, soul, etc, etc and sometimes on the same song.lol, great vid Steve!
Right on! Well done! Thank you for the clarification! I've always loved music but I've always wondered why I could never get into what is now popular music. Well, make that from Disco onwards. I used to chalk it up to simply "Well, that just doesn't cut it for me - same planet, different worlds". But I couldn't put my finger on what was missing from the equation. Point is - it's a crying shame that so many are growing up with only the mechanical computerized music of today and are missing out on the heart and soul you are speaking of. BUT...I have a friend with a granddaughter who listens to vinyl and constantly asks to borrow his '60's albums. She is 13 and plays acoustical guitar but most recently she is bugging him to buy her an "electric". So all is not lost. Hope she remains true to her gift.
What makes a recording sound great? What a great topic. I agree with so much you have said but struggle with a deeper belief that I can not pin point. I am also a late boomer and subscribe to the "band in a room" logic but was also a 70s, 80s Techno guy that loved electronic music. Pieces like Kraftwerks-Autobahn, Hans Zimmer-Leaving Wallbrook, Giorgeo Moroder-Chase and even Hot Butter-Popcorn weren't bands. These tunes made my speakers come alive and still do. The assembled music of today with so much predictability seems to be lacking the ability to connect to the listeners soul.
That's because artists back in the day really had to learn how to play an instrument and singers really had to have a voice no matter how they looked physically. Now that was keeping it real.
I'm in my 70s and I've been trying to explain exactly that
to younger relatives for ages, they just don't get it, I'm
going to refer them to Steve's posting and your reply.
This also probably explains why for at least the last
fifteen years or so modern music just leaves me cold.
Thanks for that .
@@rayfordham9230 .... And the truth shall set you free. Thank you for replying to my post. I appreciate it.
ythagakure : Yes you are correct. Back in the 1960’s and 1970’s there was indeed some very limited artificially produced music but the vast majority had to be and were, accomplished musicians. Take for example the complexity and sheer brilliance of “Supper’s Ready”, which was composed and played by guys in their early 20’s...... That’s just one example out of thousands.
Chuck Berry, Angus Young,Wayne Kramer not great musicians.
But they sure sounds awesome
Being an old boomer I agree with you totally. When considering a music purchase I often check if there's a CD of a concert or the concert released on DVD. An artist and their band mates feeding on the vibes of their audience cannot be replicated by a sample machine. I do hope we can go to concerts again soon.
Two word.. emotionally engaging
I grew up in the eighties and '90s, and I had a broad spectrum of music I liked from oldies from the 50s and 60s on up to modern day music at that time, multiple genres, but I'm 42 now and I'm starting to listen to things that I've never listened to before, and I'm noticing a lot of the old records that I'm finding from back in the 50s and 60s like, Bert kempfort, Jackie Gleason, Herb Alpert, and such, have such a clarity to their recordings that modern music just doesn't have, because of synthesizing and auto tone. There's more of a stage presence and the instruments are more pronounced.
Even with artists like ryuichi Sakamoto, you can hear a clarity that you do not hear in modern music and he made plenty of music that was synthesized so I haven't quite put my finger on what it is they're doing different exactly but whatever it is it works and it's better than what they have today. The one thing that I have learned is when buying old records, to take extra special care and making sure you're not buying a mono copy... To make sure it says hi-fi or stereo on it.
Music is like coffee. Great on your own. It is best shared.
Sound stage, dynamics, quality of the sound
There is something to be said for recording in real time; you play off each other and have that interaction. If you play an instrument, you get that.
I think we the listener has to be honest and support artists that are dedicated, give them time to develop and also experiment to find there sound. The canadian band Rush not being mainstream and not always radio friendly had a following that was earned over time. They once recorded this song called Hemispheres 1978 in Wales that was 18 minutes long. Being great musicians and always experimenting but they had this idea to record it in one take. They failed but to have the balls to have a go and not play it safe gets respect. There are many artist like this that deserve our listening time and hopefully luck out with some good recording. Take care
Hi Mr Guttenberg, thank you for your content. I am a long time watcher and get much entertainment and education from your writing and videos. I am 55 years old and a fellow NYer that has recently rediscovered the passion and enjoyment of music listening. I try to keep an open mind to music as well as life. I can agree with you and Mr. Beato as far as the ambivalence of boomers towards contemporary music. My philosophy has always been if it's good I'll enjoy it. While I believe you are correct in discussing the the technical differences of most recordings of the past vs today, I think it is too narrow a view and may prevent true enjoyment. While I agree simplistic chord structure, rhythm quantizing and auto tune correction does make less desirable recordings, I think music as an art form is more than that. I can get past that if I get to see three things in an artist; legitimacy, authenticity, and passion. If they believe what they are doing is a genuine expression of their art form, they are honest of what they are doing and not pretend is something it's not and truly do it excitement and love, I can get past sonic and recording inefficiencies. Sorry for rambling. Carry on and enjoy the music. Stay safe.
Greg
Thanks Steve exactly how I feel, I've been trying to get that across
to younger relatives to no avail. I remember the look I got from an 18 yr old
when he caught me listening to a Rolling Stones album circa 64/65 probably
their first, an album I still treasure, I was playing Oh Carol he thought the timing
out and that Charlie Watts was trying to keep up with everybody else I said no
everybody else was trying to keep up with Charlie Watts . My oldest son (44)
gets what I'm on about the youngest (35) not so much.
One of my all-time favorite live recordings: "Glass Harp, Live at Carnegie Hall".
I am an older boomer. I listened to heavy rock and pop music through the decades, but now I prefer Jazz, Blues and Classical. Why? Compared to most of my friends, I believe that my audiophile education had taught me some listening skills, such that poorly recorded music now sounds like fingernails on a blackboard.
I am constantly learning. I appreciate what Steve implies about music having a melody (or at least a "groove") that flows and surprises. I like how some Jazz has a "sense of humor" in the way they stretch the progressions and eventually bring you back to the main melody.
When it comes to overdubbing, I like when it is not in your face obvious. A good engineer can paint a very realistic stage with clearly isolated instruments. Examples include Bucky Pizzarelli, or Eric Freidlander's "Oscalypso".
To me modern pop, with it's driving looping soundbites, explicit content and low frequency bass is music to hump to. Dancing used to be a vertical expression of a horizontal desire. Now it looks like a substitute for the act. However, I will admit to having a workout playlist with lots of driving EDM :)
I think it comes more down to the creative process and whether the artist has that thing. I am 53 but like contemporary artists like Bon Iver who does use auto-tune. I also like Phoebe Bridgers as she displays that raw emotion through her voice and lyrics. Then I rely on Nick Cave evolving into something new every couple of years with the Bad Seeds. Some music I find to be flat and there is so much released it is sometimes difficult to find the nuggets but they can be found. Go 150K. well done again Steve 😊🙏
Wow you've really opened up a Pandora's box here but thanks for inviting discussion and among the hugely disparate opinions may come an overall consensus on a few things. I am a boomer who has listened to music passionately since 1965 and I've also been a professional recording engineer since 1982. I've always said that making pop records is like building a wall brick by brick while making a jazz record is like pulling a rabbit out of a hat-two totally different processes. The vast majority of the recordings I've made have been jazz recordings but I also occasionally work on pop music. To dispel a notion that this brick by brick method to making pop records is a recent development, I should remind you that it was the Beatles who essentially invented this technique and few would disagree that they made great records. I agree it's frustrating that contemporary pop mostly does away with harmony and the dynamic range is much smaller but if you become attuned to all the tonal and textural ideas that go on in these productions, it can be substitute for those things. To say contemporary pop records are "simplistically" arranged is flat out wrong-at least on the pop records that I work on. I'm sorry to end with an extremely simplistic answer to your question: any recording that elevates, takes you to a different and meaningful place, makes you happy, that is great-also sounds great. To rephrase, it sounds great because it is great. Yes I know you can easily point out great records you think sound "terrible" but, after all, if you still see them as great then the fact that they sound "terrible" is irrelevant. Thanks Steve for opening another box. It's why I always enjoy your work.
thanks!
Great video Steve. I too like Rick Beato's channel. Being a boomer as well, both of you guys make a lot of sense. I find that I like music that sounds natural as opposed to manufactured. To me a live performance that was recorded well always sounds better than a mixed studio recording. However sometimes a live concert isn't always recorded well and it may not sound very good, or perhaps the artist or band was unable to play it live the way it was laid down in the studio. Lot's of variables to consider. But I have to say that many of today's artists can't play live what they produce in the recording studio. There are some exceptions to this, but most of the artists and bands from the 50's, 60's, 70's and even the 80's were better musicians that a lot of the artists of today. That is just a general statement, there are many great musicians and artists coming out today, but not like it was years ago. Technology has made it easier to manufacture music instead of really playing music.
You have some great points about contemporary music. My biggest complaint is the compressed dynamic range. Ironically, vinyl masters help with that issue to some degree.
On a separate point, I don’t believe use of auto tune is as wide spread as you make it out to be.
Great video. Thanks.
I was in a great band in the early 70s. We were given an opportunity to record 55 minutes of our original music in a 16-track studio for broadcast on a local FM station.
We were given just enough time to record the songs, no overdubs, no editing. There was a little bit of mixing before the broadcast but it was all raw, live recording and all first takes (We weren't given any time for 2nd takes). It turned out pretty darned good for a band with very little studio experience.
The very first stage, the instrument. Fortunately the recording seems really good too. Look up "Trying 300 Year Old Cello" by Wendy Law. Through my speakers it was goosebumps! You won't hear anything else like it.
My X factor is you hear “new” sound every time you play it, hence it still sounds fresh after all these years.
I find that people like lots of dynamics and punchyness in the low frequencies and very smooth and consistent high frequencies. like an even gradation becoming less dynamic as the frequencies rise. this applies to most genres
Pop music has always been made to be consumed by the most people and therefore composed for the lowest common denominator of intelligence, interest, and attention span. In the age of algorithmic analysis in demography music has been dumbed down to a scientific level. There are still scores of musicians making complex music thankfully, but you have to have enough interest to look for it, and the base of knowledge to know it exists somewhere even if you haven't heard it yet. As for recording live or multitracking to tape, to me it comes down to whether you want a photographic representation of musical moments, or whether you want a painting of something which may not even be possible in real life. One is a direct capture, the other is an artistic representation. Photo vs Painting. There is absolutely room in my heart for both, and to me, that's the difference.
I like to hear a nice flat frequency response, high headroom, wide, transparent soundstage, and tone with a lot of harmonics.
Open the recording mush sound open and not muffled inside my speakers. I bought a Kandace Springs recording on vinyl and it sounded horrible! They sent it on CD and it sounded the same. My other recordings of her are outstanding. I guest heart and soul of the engineer and he/she must give a dam.
Thanks
Hawkaudio 🔊
What Steve is describing is true of much of the pop music scene but there are exceptions especially amongst the more talented artists and the indie music scene. One thing I look for from bands are whether they can play actual musical instruments with skill and how they sound when playing live without the benefit of backing tracks. If you can perform well live there will be an excitement and energy to the sound and a deviation from the polish of a studio album and improvisation.
There are a couple of RUclips channels I follow to find bands I like that fit that criteria. One is NPR Tiny Desk Concerts and Seattle KEXP radio station. Often the bands will sound even better than their album recordings because their live sessions are not compressed or over EQed. Some of the musicians I’ve enjoyed in those channels include The Black Pumas, Haelos, Island, The War On Drugs, Harry Styles. Of that list Harry Styles is the biggest commercial success and is a member of the popular UK boy band One Direction. His last album Fine Line was a major hit in 2019 and he has assembled an actual band of 5 other musicians who come from the indie scene and sound great live.
My origins are from classical music, I am a pianist from the conservatoire and I can tell you, from the musical point of view, we have lost a lot in the way of dynamics and live performances, but life is always like that, you gain on tech you lose on human element,(believe me one of my favorite singer is a virtual girl call Hatsune Miku!!!), she is a duality of things, She is virtual because she is computer software but real also because the song is real you can hear it and enjoy it too !, but today everything is compress and process and all, the best recordings for me are the ones that bring the elements of the music style to life, the stereo recordings of the 60s of bosa nova, the wonderful recordings of the 70 disco music, and of course Supertramp recordings have a special place in my heart, so that is that!
Love waiting for your uploads
Thanks!!
Sorta similar to your answer, but the word I use for it is “soundstage”. That dimensionality that is best heard on a high quality live recording, and is sometimes recreated well with a good engineer. Instruments existing in a well-defined three dimensional space sonically. RVG’s classic records are good examples of that sound quality. Not many records being made today that have that quality to them, even if they’re recorded live.
I think when we hit our teens and through to our twenties and beyond we absorb the music and fashion of that time, it becomes part of what we are. I think we were just lucky to have grown up in the early days of pop music when everyone was experimenting and finding their own style. Today it’s so easy to put together music on computers but it makes everything sound the same (it doesn’t have to) but it’s all young people know and it’s linked to whatever fashion they are in to. Music changes from generation to generation and I really hope that young people will want to get away from the current music and that again they will have the need to experiment.
Great video
Around what year did studio industry design albums sound more for a cd vs vinyl? Like Hysteria sounds better I would think on cd vs vinyl with all the layering.
Good show.
I couldn't have put it so eloquently but my thoughts 100%. Anyone who cant sing in tune should not be given a mike!
I understand what Steve is telling, and it is definitively something that gives me a feeling of "organic" to music. That said, you could also pick music from Timbaland, Daft Punk, Dr. Dre, and all the other current (or not so) creators/producers who are pieced together in such a way that it also is "organic". You understand the music not only by its pieces but as a whole.
One interesting anecdote to the whole "live" thing. I love the music "Don't Start Now" by Dua Lipa, but I am especially fond of the youtube "live from LA" version. And even if you get the single from this live version that was released after, you can hear they mastered in a way that, IMO, completely kills the vibe of the music. Listening to the YT version, with all its compression, still sounds like a happy group of people making music. The single version sounds like someone pieced it together, or mess with it in a way I don't quite like.
For me it starts with the drums. Drums are organic (acoustic ones) and pretty much cover the frequency spectrum from the kick drum bass that should deep and tight but not over done, to the crisp mids of the snare (horn tweeters please) and the nuances of the hihat and cymbals. Then of course the vocals and other instruments need to be balanced in well and with all of their nuances too.
I enjoy “classic rock” radio because that’s what I grew up on. I wonder if there will be any future stations based on 21st century music...
Apart from between tracks and maybe sequence Grand Funk Railroad LIVE ALBUM from 1970 has no edits or overdubs. Could it be a standard in high end audio demonstration discs?
Thanks Dad. Hahahaha just flipping you s$@t. I’m definitely in between in my feelings about music. I love techno and electronic music in general and I love black metal to classic rock and jazz, hip hop, and even some world music. I’m 38 btw
Totally agree! Id trade anything just to hear the almost raw version qith very minimal editing. :)
Hey Steve, I am 61 (and also a Steve) and pretty much enjoy all the music from the 60's to present no matter what the presentation as long as it is done well (subjective)... I currently am listening to Josh Turner Guitar on RUclips.com/CD's... Josh is classically trained musician that has a highly technical approach to his music... His recording style is mixture of a live takes to moderately high production for videos... In many of his videos he collaborates with other artist's and almost all of these recordings are monolithic live takes that they do until they get it right... I am loving this style of recording... I would really like to know what you think of this style of recording... It seems to buck the trend that you explained in your video...
Tull, Genesis, Floyd, Zappa, Canterbury scene...and I'm happy!
I think you just encapsulated the Prince dilemma of being able to play multiple instruments just not at the same time , which is also the reason his live shows were so amazing because of the musicians he was able to assemble to express his musicianship .
My instant comment on Beato's video was:
"Before we get started, plenty millennials also hate pop music - speaking from personal experience here!"
It's a common misconception that specifically boomers dislike pop, it's not exclusive to boomers.
But millennials are more tolerant to having crappy music as background noise.
I very much agree with you on that one, man.
@Fat Rat nice theory, I can see how that applies to earlier generations, but me and most of the people in knew back in high school didn’t like the contemporary pop.
Some were into (hard)house/hardstyle, like myself, but most were into metal/rock.
Pop was just that background noise that was on the radio, when you didn’t have your discman or MP3 player available.
@Fat Rat Yes that's boomer logic haha
It's popular because it's listened (i.e. heard, but not really listened) to by many people, not because many people like it 😜
@Fat Rat Well... most people that want some random background noise put the radio on (even today, in this age of streaming).
All of those people listen to the music on the radio because it's on the radio not because of the song, as long as it's not too distracting it's fine to serve as background noise (that's the main reason why modern pop music is so predictable and simple when it comes to chords, rhythms and melodies).
Pop music shows how bad people are in dealing with silence.
@Fat Rat Lol elevator music is nice comparison 😂
Have you listened to Streetlight Manifesto? When I have seen them live they sound so good. The horns, guitar tone, vocals and rhythm section all sound great. When I listen to their albums it doesn't sound the same. Is that because it is impossible to capture the energy of their live performance or are the albums poorly record?
Highly recommend James Blake as a gateway to some of the new sounds. Gen X speaking here. Recommend the album Overgrown.
So true. Can anyone imagine tweaking Blue Note recordings? Keeping it human.
Presence is the Essence.
Hi Steve a good recording will have good recording equipment, microphones etc, good songs. take for instance blue note recordings are very clear.
I have a real conundrum listening to some recorded music, especially live music from the 60’s and 70’s. As much as I love the group I am listening to and I know it probably sounded great in live performance, if the music has been badly laid down on the recording, I just can’t listen to it, because I think to myself, I know this could be so much better! Then one gets caught up in all of these audiophile re-releases of recordings and forces some serious decision making because of the cost of replacement.
Nevermind sounds great anywhere anytime
Great producers makes a record work
@Steve Guttenberg, Regarding Pop Music, I think the answer may be that a large swath of gen-pop don't do well with change on many levels. So with music, things can't change much, things need to be predictable and follow a particular formula or pattern (that is until the "taste makers" convince them otherwise).
Aligning with the composer's mind- capturing the essence of his music- like in Karajan performance with the 9th (Berlin phil. 1984)-especially the beginning of the 1st mov. and the last movement. I can say the same for Kraftwerk- their performance suits their "robotic mind". Sometimes using electronic drums and 'music machines' is actually a good thing.
I think what makes a recording acceptable or even sometimes great is when the performers can actually reproduce live what's has been recorded on the album....which is essentially what you are positing. It's crucial that the singer(s) can actially sing - follow the tune, hot the notes, maintain tempo and consistently reproduce the song
There's more music in one Eddie Van Halen riff, than in all pop music from 2020 so far. RIP!
lol
There IS something about hearing the artists shuffling in their seats and turning the pages of their music. I can't remember what great audiophile said it, but I also like to hear the silence between the notes.
Think that was Neil Young.👍😎❤🖖
Love brother
In some recordings of classical music you can hear the director’s stick hitting the music stand. I like that.
Otherwise it’s always the artist that matters most and there’s tons of great artists
Listen to all the good stuff Iggy plays in bbc6 music
Listen to Anderson Paak on NPR’s Tiny Desk for a peek into modern pop music by an amazing band. There’s great pop and indie music out there. Simply browse these bands live on NPR, KEXP etc to experience & explore. Yeah, is not ultra high resolution, and for some their studio work is what it is given digital productions, but a good song is a good song.
Yes, Motown did a lot of tracks without the vocalist being present. For example there's a track called "There's No Love Left." There is a version of the Holland-Dozier-Holland song by The Four Tops and a version by the Isley Brothers. The music is EXACTLY the same track regardless of who is doing background vocals. The fill-in-the-blank lead singer was Levi Stubbs for The Four Tops and Ronald Isley for The Isley Brothers.
If you want to hear some of the music tracks (no vocals) only version of some of the 60s Motown hits there is a RUclips channel by mosogotam that does a few. Cool. For example you can hear the music track only for The Four Tops' number 1 hit "Baby I Need Your Loving," and you can also hear the group singing the voices only (acapella) version. Motown had some great musicians back in the day, but their sound production values left A LOT to be desired even on vinyl. Motown's later day digital production stuff was awful, I remember buying their early CDs of ole stuff in the mid 80s, and it all sounded like AM radio or the sound you would hear coming from 60s drive-in movie theater speakers you hang on the door! That "in-the-room" dynamics didn't happen for me with Motown's records, and I never trusted any "re-mastering" to buy yet again mediocre production.
Steve, I love your videos, and I hear you, as what makes audio recordings sound great to me is great arrangements and instrumentation. That said, if you're willing to be open minded I can give you some contemporary artists and recordings to check out, as well as a RUclips video that I think you may enjoy. Outkast's Aquemini, actually their entire catalog, but start there, Kanye West's Late Registration; Kendrick's Lamar's Damn, and To Pimp a Butterfly, and any albums that you can find by a group called De La Soul, one album in particular, the Anonymous Nobody. Lastly the RUclips video I'd like you to watch is titled How J Dilla humanized his MPC3000 by VOX. The late J Dilla, aka Jay Dee, was a rapper/producer and influencer that I think you might find intriguing. I'd love to get your thoughts and thank you for all that you do. Keep up the great work and Be Safe!!
I am moved by different things that has opened up a very wide world of musical pleasure. The common element seems to be energy that is driven by my perceived depth of feeling from the artist who is a unique individual. I move among, for example, early Bill Evans, Kraftwerk 3D, Mike Stern, Ludwig Van, Frank Zappa, John Cage, Cream, Brian Eno, Frank Sinatra .... While I have spent way too much on getting a good sound, that in itself can't replace getting to know an artist who puts it all out there. Recordings? Just a means to an end.
Theres some "pop" music thats actually great when i hear live presentations of them, for example it happened quiet-Aurora live at niradosmen, just amazing
The trouble with bands who play together all the time is.... they may split up and ruin your planned revenue stream. That's why music has been broken down into its atomised individual sub-components- guaranteed production runs and return on investment.
Yes, it's all about revenue streams.
steve - you would probably enjoy dave grusin's mountain dance - direct to disc
The music industry generally covers all facets of music from the purist artist driven forms of musical creativity and production through to the more generic formulaic profit driven music, that's gives just enough content to connect and get people to buy into it on mass.
Pop music is especially like this as it's more of a commodity profit driven process.
I don't mind either form of music but it is very noticeable...as the later often uses and samples certain current sounds and tones that they think are current to throw in their mixes ...which leads to a slight cloned sound.
Funnily in the early days of popular music many musicians tried to find and to some degree establish their own sounds and tones to stand out from the crowd...and that still happens to some degree today.
But even back then there were clone bands who copied the popular bands in their desire to be famous.
It also seems that music is somehow saturated nowadays but luckily there are still musicians and new artist that care and put great effort into what they are doing..which does stands out to those listeners who equally care.
I generally stream music these days and I love finding amazing artists and music both old and new, which is made even more special when recorded (and yes mixed) well.
Finally...it's funny that my parents did not like my music, so perhaps it's more a generation gap thing?
Music has to speak to me, if it does it can be any genre. A perfect song will have volume changes, time changes and drums that do more than keep time . I like lyrics that make me think. I find that today's hard rock is in search of the next shake up like the next grunge. Modern music seems to be very much made to formulas. An example being when Cher used auto tune as an effect, next thing you know everyone was. A perfect piece of music can bring me to tears.
I know some pretty darn good recordings which are greatly compressed. However, the truly great ones always have fantastic dynamic range
It’s not such a dark picture as some people are saying here; there are still great great modern Bands and musicians out there which also give their music heart and soul (even if they don’t preform the song live in the recording) and therefor a higher amount of quality to the recording then in early days would have been possible.
Peace and love
There are, they are just not making a lot of money, or being heard by a large audience
I really like the recent Twenty One Pilots tune "Level of Concern." We heard it on the radio in the car the other day, and my wife said, "Wow, that's so autotuned." She was definitely right, but I hadn't thought about it. It was for effect, (probably) not correction, which for some reason I don't mind. Otherwise the song has what I like in a recording--lots of dynamic and frequency range, and it presents a great soundstage on my system, especially on the FLAC file I bought from Acoustic Sounds. Oh, and I'm 50.
I hear you, I know my music and I love it, but.. but.... there’s some new music that sounds really good to my ears, for example, always loved reggae, I heard set in stone CD by stick figure and loved it.. make me hunt for new things, and my system seems to sound better... I you know what I mean 🤷🏼♂️
I agree completely with the characterization of today's pop music being mostly "assembled" in nature and assembled sounding. Truly I have always liked the heavily "produced" pop music of the last 75 years, the belabored studio stuff and straight up to the sampled and electronic music of the last 30 years most of all. I've never been drawn to the live sound. I don't really enjoy live rock shows (although I love live classical, jazz and some other genres) so I've never had any desire to reproduce that sound in my home. I've never particularly fantasized about how cool being on stage or in a band would be. I have virtually no interest in the mechanics of music creation. To me, from the AM radio of my childhood to the higher res. streaming music of the present, I have always cared almost exclusively about the sound as it comes out of a speaker in my home or headphones. I don't even really think of it as reproduction. To me it is production. It's making the music in my space with a machine more than it is trying to recreate something. The way it comes out IS the performance, and in that way there is no real accuracy or inaccuracy. I like music where I can ignore how it was made - where it might even be hard to grasp what exactly was making the sound. I am exactly the first year of the gen X generation and I rather accurately reflect that break from the general aesthetics of the previous baby boomer generation.
All of that said, I enjoy almost any kind of music where it seems clear that a solid effort was made to produce something heartfelt. To me the value of music is that it can affect me emotionally in a way that's easy to turn on and off. Any and all forms of music and recording, done with enough care, can have that effect on me. And that said, most pop music regardless of era, isn't particularly well made. They're are plenty of contemporary things I really like, but it's rare that I truly appreciate more than a couple or a few songs on the top 40 chart at any one time. I have no problem with the autotune robot voice if it's used well, but that's like maybe one in 40 or 50 songs that make it to the charts. The rest, like much of the music since probably forever, is just quickly created, uninspired, sloppy, cheap junk to be quickly put aside or ignored right away. I don't think there's a genre in existence that has found a way to ensure every recording is of a good performance of a good song. Certainly anything mainstream has an even lower overall quality because it's goal is primarily to compete for money, not long term appreciation. But still, even with whatever is popular at the moment, there will be gems that are enjoyable today and for years to come. For me, the assembled sound is great when done right. For others, especially boomers, it seems like the sound that is most pleasing is the "band jamming in perfect harmony with each other." Obviously no one is right or wrong. I just wanted to offer that alternate sense of appreciation to the discussion, and to Steve's take on it all, which I think is accurate and quite well stated.
Right now, dynamics, sound staging and depth ate what get my attention, because truthfully it’s never been something that I experienced with my 80’s modest system. Since I’ve replaced most of my equipment (and placed the speakers properly), I’m hearing music that I thought I was so familiar with in a new way. Now I’m exploring the vast universe of older music that never got my attention before. Not really a fan of songs where someone is pretty much talking their lyrics through, but to each their own. And sorry - I’ve tried to listen to Billie Eilish, but I just can’t.
The loudness war was/is the most destructive thing done to modern music and many remasters. Maybe that's a factor in vinyl's resurgence. I've been an audiophile for over 60 years and it's always been more about excellence in the recordings. The equipment lets the music out.
Rick beato is great!
Very interesting, but is a JBL hdi 1600 review coming soon? 😉 starting to get anxious
Very soon calm down!
Love your channel, always learn a lot. Greetings from Basque country, Spain