I got over my Direct Drive bias, and I feel better for it! I grew up with what are now called 'vintage' turntables; direct drive and fully automatic. After having been out of vinyl for 20 year, I had the itch to get back in. Initially, I wanted and sought out that with which I was familiar; direct drive and fully automatic turntable. I found a 'vintage' Pioneer that seemed to be what I was looking for; but it died within a month. I ended up with a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (slightly used with the upgraded platter) and I couldn't be happier. If direct drive is so much better, why are (pretty much) only DJ turntables built with it? Why are so many high-end turntables belt driven? That Pioneer, being vintage (which is a polite way of saying 'old') could not maintain a consistent speed. I have zero interest in spending time learning how to take apart, clean, repair and then reassemble a turntable. None. Direct drive would be complicated to repair. People say 'the belts wear out'. So what? Buy a new belt! Do you realize how much easier and cheaper it is to replace a belt than it is to replace a direct drive? I'm good with my Pro-Ject; I'd put it up against anything 'vintage', any day.
Just to thank Kurt-I own a Project debut 3 (since I am limited by finance)& these videos tutorials are very helpful .Vinyl has seen a revival & depending on the equipment & the state of your records I can see why-There are quite simply albums that sound better when played on a good set up -than the same played on a c.d player(&visa versa)-there are so many variables.As a musician listening is almost as important as playing & if you have albums pressed by 'Pablo'-'Atlantic' & other Vinyl companies that produced high quality albums well it is simply a pleasure -in this world where every one wants every thing instantly Vinyl is good for the ears & good for the soul ....since whatever format used to listen to music the law has always been 'Rubbish in -rubbish out' & to those who dislike Project record decks or have been unhappy with their customer service I am sorry,my own experience has been very positive & I have no affiliation with the company at all I'm just a humble musician Leonardo da Vinci said "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" & that is part of what makes Project record decks so good for people who love their Viny but are not rich.Thanks again Kurt & all at Project.Charlie(FR)
Project debut series suffer from hum issues. Tried 2 Carbon Esprit TT from Crutchfield and returned both because of loud annoying hum. But I take this as a blessing in disguise or I would not have discovered how good the new Rega Planar 3 sounds.
Litmuz: Hum is generated by cartridge and tonearm not the turntable. Properly connected ground cable to the phono stage should eliminated all hum problem.
I agree. I used 3 kinds of phono cable all well shielded, even bought a new phono preamp, tried it in 2 kinds of integrated amp and an AV receiver, plugged it in different sockets in my house and even moved my speakers as far as seven away from TT and still the hum persisted. My older $125 Sony TT never had this issue.
Belt drive is by far the better drive system, if one is looking for sound quality, Direct Drive is a more convenient, faster method for driving the platter, but with many compromises regarding sound quality.
Not even close man. DD is better in every way (but there are bad examples of both a there are most definitely belt drive models that are better than certain direct drives). But, DD is quite simply are more modern, efficient and better way to build a turntable. An old Technics SL-1200MK2 (that is up to spec) easily beats out even the best and most expensive version of the Linn LP-12 (and similar tables). It has lower rumble and lower wow and flutter. What are the the draw backs of direct drives exactly? The cogging thing is a myth. A good Technics DD doesn't have any. If it did it would show up in the frequency response plot and/or the rumble measurements.
Well,lets be honest here. It realy doesnt matter if the platter is rotated direct driven or belt driven,if the quality of the drive itself is ok. Meaning mainly W&F lower than 0,1% ,S/N ratio larger than 65dB. What is needed from the drive is long time,drift free constant rotation and silent operation. The industry threw out those in the thousands by the end of the seventies for very little money compared to today.
In audio there is such a diminishing law of returns. Spending more money is not always yield better performance. I could not tell the difference between the Audio technica Lp120 and my current project Essential 3
In order to test 2 different turntables or CDs then you have to have two very basic good things : 1st : Amplifier and 2nd : Speakers : To reveal any of the sound quality diffrence from the machines if there is of course But if you use low badget amp and speakers don't expect any results Mr postersm 71 But of course i don't know the rest of your stereo set besides the 2 turntables you've mentioned in your comment !!
stupid things, no matter how fine tuned are vibrations a vinyl lose information each time you play it, that´s all marketing and human stupidities, what is nice about vinyls is it´s dirty sound, the cover, the ritual... If you want high Hi Fi go for DAC and flac or any high resolution digital formats
If as you say DD is better then why is it there are so few really good quality DD turntables on the market? It's a fact that most good quality TTs are belt driven. There are actually a few really good DD turntables, the new Technics, Brinkmann and perhaps a few more, yet there are literally hundreds of belt driven TTs. I've had a belt driven TT for 25 years and it's perfectly stable, changes speed easily between 45 and 33 and has never missed a beat.
Cate Robertson Because, particularly in the past, it was hard to prevent the motor noise from being transferred to the platter. This is because the motor is directly below. Modern materials and innovation have made it easier to reduce this, but moving the motor to the side and adding a belt is easier. I like DD, as well. Was going to buy a 1200, but decided to save a few hundred, and try the Audio-Technica AT-LP5. Glad I did. Loving it a lot. No noise.
Darren T belt drive turntables are the most expensive in upwards of 100s of thousands of dollars. Yes some do cost that much. Usually true audiophiles use and listen to belt drives whilst direct drive is geared toward the DJ and clubs.
Really? the record you are listening to was cut on a direct drive ! fact is they both have pro's and cons. and another fact is its pretty hard to make a dd motor, much harder than a belt drive.
The bearing technology is nothing new, its old technology, thorens, linn, AR, rega, heybrook, employed this technology before Projekt were even thought of, look at the Rega Turntables, the real deal
quality of tonearm,.......(not the greatest in project tonearms),.... subplatter and platter material, ...quality of motor,.....................(of course all depending on price/quality ratio).
VioletGiraffe it’s an engaging hobby. It doesn’t sound better than anything else (proven through actual measurement) but it is awesome to get big gorgeous vinyl albums, fun to place them on the table go through the routine. Plus I get most of my vinyl from Amazon where a lot of the albums you also get a download version for free. Not to mention a lot of albums also come with download codes to get the album digitally. Get the best of both worlds. Lied a bit I guess, sometimes the vinyls are mixed better so the sound can be better in some cases.
VioletGiraffe simple, it has a sound all its own that no CD player can even approach. It's just the best way to listen to recorded music, that is if you are a serious listener as most audiophiles are.
Love all these videos. As someone getting back into vinyl I find them helpful and instructive. Excellent presenter.
I got over my Direct Drive bias, and I feel better for it! I grew up with what are now called 'vintage' turntables; direct drive and fully automatic. After having been out of vinyl for 20 year, I had the itch to get back in. Initially, I wanted and sought out that with which I was familiar; direct drive and fully automatic turntable. I found a 'vintage' Pioneer that seemed to be what I was looking for; but it died within a month. I ended up with a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (slightly used with the upgraded platter) and I couldn't be happier. If direct drive is so much better, why are (pretty much) only DJ turntables built with it? Why are so many high-end turntables belt driven? That Pioneer, being vintage (which is a polite way of saying 'old') could not maintain a consistent speed. I have zero interest in spending time learning how to take apart, clean, repair and then reassemble a turntable. None. Direct drive would be complicated to repair. People say 'the belts wear out'. So what? Buy a new belt! Do you realize how much easier and cheaper it is to replace a belt than it is to replace a direct drive? I'm good with my Pro-Ject; I'd put it up against anything 'vintage', any day.
Nice presentation video Mr Kurt from Pro-Ject Audio :-)
Just to thank Kurt-I own a Project debut 3 (since I am limited by finance)& these videos tutorials are very helpful .Vinyl has seen a revival & depending on the equipment & the state of your records I can see why-There are quite simply albums that sound better when played on a good set up -than the same played on a c.d player(&visa versa)-there are so many variables.As a musician listening is almost as important as playing & if you have albums pressed by 'Pablo'-'Atlantic' & other Vinyl companies that produced high quality albums well it is simply a pleasure -in this world where every one wants every thing instantly Vinyl is good for the ears & good for the soul ....since whatever format used to listen to music the law has always been 'Rubbish in -rubbish out' & to those who dislike Project record decks or have been unhappy with their customer service I am sorry,my own experience has been very positive & I have no affiliation with the company at all I'm just a humble musician Leonardo da Vinci said "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" & that is part of what makes Project record decks so good for people who love their Viny but are not rich.Thanks again Kurt & all at Project.Charlie(FR)
Project debut series suffer from hum issues. Tried 2 Carbon Esprit TT from Crutchfield and returned both because of loud annoying hum. But I take this as a blessing in disguise or I would not have discovered how good the new Rega Planar 3 sounds.
Bought Debut III Se yesterday . No hum at all.
My second hand Debut III had some hum problems but Carbon DC runs silent.
Litmuz: Hum is generated by cartridge and tonearm not the turntable. Properly connected ground cable to the phono stage should eliminated all hum problem.
I agree. I used 3 kinds of phono cable all well shielded, even bought a new phono preamp, tried it in 2 kinds of integrated amp and an AV receiver, plugged it in different sockets in my house and even moved my speakers as far as seven away from TT and still the hum persisted. My older $125 Sony TT never had this issue.
Try move your turntable placement.
Looks like a direct copy/competition with the Rega turntables.
Belt drive is by far the better drive system, if one is looking for sound quality, Direct Drive is a more convenient, faster method for driving the platter, but with many compromises regarding sound quality.
Foh dude. Direct drive is better in every way than belt drive.
Not even close man. DD is better in every way (but there are bad examples of both a there are most definitely belt drive models that are better than certain direct drives). But, DD is quite simply are more modern, efficient and better way to build a turntable. An old Technics SL-1200MK2 (that is up to spec) easily beats out even the best and most expensive version of the Linn LP-12 (and similar tables). It has lower rumble and lower wow and flutter. What are the the draw backs of direct drives exactly? The cogging thing is a myth. A good Technics DD doesn't have any. If it did it would show up in the frequency response plot and/or the rumble measurements.
What would make a quality turntable is one the suspension band not snapping on the motor all the time in my experience hint hint.
Well,lets be honest here. It realy doesnt matter if the platter is rotated direct driven or belt driven,if the quality of the drive itself
is ok. Meaning mainly W&F lower than 0,1% ,S/N ratio larger than 65dB. What is needed from the drive is long time,drift free
constant rotation and silent operation. The industry threw out those in the thousands by the end of the seventies for very little
money compared to today.
In audio there is such a diminishing law of returns. Spending more money is not always yield better performance. I could not tell the difference between the Audio technica Lp120 and my current project Essential 3
you may as well buy something from aldi and save lots of money. consider it a blessing.
In order to test 2 different turntables or CDs then you have to have two very basic good things :
1st : Amplifier and 2nd : Speakers :
To reveal any of the sound quality diffrence from the machines if there is of course
But if you use low badget amp and speakers don't expect any results Mr postersm 71
But of course i don't know the rest of your stereo set besides the 2 turntables you've mentioned in your comment !!
stupid things, no matter how fine tuned are vibrations a vinyl lose information each time you play it, that´s all marketing and human stupidities, what is nice about vinyls is it´s dirty sound, the cover, the ritual... If you want high Hi Fi go for DAC and flac or any high resolution digital formats
And so many pressings are way off-centre, vinyl's dirty secret!
straight up copy of a Rega Planar 2 - get one of those
Direct Drive is better , Belt drive never get the Exact speed and change over time ,less vibration with a belt yes but not better
Hey Darren I always thought so as well , as the belt ages it stretches and dries up no thanks
If as you say DD is better then why is it there are so few really good quality DD turntables on the market? It's a fact that most good quality TTs are belt driven. There are actually a few really good DD turntables, the new Technics, Brinkmann and perhaps a few more, yet there are literally hundreds of belt driven TTs. I've had a belt driven TT for 25 years and it's perfectly stable, changes speed easily between 45 and 33 and has never missed a beat.
Cate Robertson Because, particularly in the past, it was hard to prevent the motor noise from being transferred to the platter. This is because the motor is directly below. Modern materials and innovation have made it easier to reduce this, but moving the motor to the side and adding a belt is easier.
I like DD, as well. Was going to buy a 1200, but decided to save a few hundred, and try the Audio-Technica AT-LP5. Glad I did. Loving it a lot. No noise.
Darren T belt drive turntables are the most expensive in upwards of 100s of thousands of dollars. Yes some do cost that much. Usually true audiophiles use and listen to belt drives whilst direct drive is geared toward the DJ and clubs.
Really? the record you are listening to was cut on a direct drive ! fact is they both have pro's and cons. and another fact is its pretty hard to make a dd motor, much harder than a belt drive.
motor must be leveled
The bearing technology is nothing new, its old technology, thorens, linn, AR, rega, heybrook, employed this technology before Projekt were even thought of, look at the Rega Turntables, the real deal
Best turntables sonically are belt.drive.You never want platter on motor ...
quality of tonearm,.......(not the greatest in project tonearms),.... subplatter and platter material, ...quality of motor,.....................(of course all depending on price/quality ratio).
Can someone explain me how vinyl is still alive?
VioletGiraffe it’s an engaging hobby. It doesn’t sound better than anything else (proven through actual measurement) but it is awesome to get big gorgeous vinyl albums, fun to place them on the table go through the routine. Plus I get most of my vinyl from Amazon where a lot of the albums you also get a download version for free. Not to mention a lot of albums also come with download codes to get the album digitally.
Get the best of both worlds. Lied a bit I guess, sometimes the vinyls are mixed better so the sound can be better in some cases.
VioletGiraffe simple, it has a sound all its own that no CD player can even approach. It's just the best way to listen to recorded music, that is if you are a serious listener as most audiophiles are.
Because people like it maybe😐?
It's a cheap Rega copy.
Nor project. That’s for sure