ONE WEEK TO GO! Can we make our sailing yacht sail?
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- Опубликовано: 21 май 2024
- Thanks for following our family on our sailing adventures.
In this weeks episode we finally get the roller reefing system installed and working
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About used Harken joiners/parts please kindly allow me to suggest that you contact Mark (Wildling Sailing). Some time ago he and his parents went to a dealer for used boat parts in the Netherlands. This shop had a ginormous amount of stuff. Maybe even the joiners you need!? 2) Maya and Aladino went to a similar shop in the USA. Maybe contacting them could also be helpful. 3) Leo Sampson Goolden worked with the oldest sailmaker in England. Maybe they can help you finding the parts you need?
Can't believe you're almost almost there! 🎉
Dear Sailing Melody family, especially Andy this time.
Before I even watched the complete video, please allow me to suggest how you can fix the joiner problem (at least I would do it this common way): Buy a rod or a small pipe that fits into the hole of the joiners and cut it into 31* cm pieces. Then drill some holes into all the 15 cm long pieces of the joiners so that you can weld the rod/pipe inside to the joiners. Don't forget to leave a little gap between the broken pieces so that you can weld them together properly in the middle too. Weld also the ends of the rod/pipe to the ends of the joiners (for all this, 31 cm rod/pipe length should be enough. If not simply add 5 or 10 mill*). Then clean/grind everything properly so that the welded piece has the same shape than the original ones had. After that drill the holes you need for fixing the joiners to the long rails. I don't know if you need threaded holes. If you welded a rod inside the joiners, you have to cut a blind hole thread. If you use a small pipe, you might be able to tap through. In my opinion a rod in the middle gives the repair more strength.
I'm totally confident that you can even make this repair yourself. It's faster and definitely cheaper than machining new joiners.
Now I will watch the rest of the video.
The steel cable that goes down the middle is 10mm thick
The wall thickness is only 4mm
Would be impossible to sleeve the joiner with tube sadly.
But thanks for the suggestion :)
@@SailingMelody
Ouuuh, I see! Mea culpa for not having watched detailed/long enough. I was so keen to try to help you go sailing, that I must've overlooked the facts. Quite untypical for me. Might be caused by all the Ibuprofen that are making my head not functioning completely right.
Thanks for replying and especially for giving a heart to my comment (although it was useless).
Sincerely yours.
Post Scriptum: There might be another way to join the joiners together again. But this time I will watch the complete video before I steal your time again.
Tip (not criticism): now you were well secured, but a tip for when you might be less well secured at another time; During my fire training I learned that you should always use the rungs of a ladder when climbing (and not the sides), so that if your foot(s) slip you have a good grip with your hands and they do not also slide along the side, slip down below and get injured.
Yes i understand what you’re saying. I think the main reason I wasn’t climbing on the rungs is because I’m a little bit fat and a little bit weak and very frightened so wasn’t performing at my best 😂😂😂
Vary interesting video Andy, job well done! You're getting ready to go, I am happy for you all!
You could check at sailing services in miami for the conector. They are the harken distributor for South east US. They sometimes have spareparts for Out of production stuff. Definetly worth checking out.
Good Luck and all the best to the 4 of you.
Great video well done chaps as a non sailor the great way you put your video together and detail things I luv hope your sailing ⛵️ 😊
I would say cutting the joiners in half would in fact reduce the stresses on them and result in less chance of a failure in future. The fact that they were breaking at the joins indicates they were manufactured too long in the first place. Best Wishes
Glad to see you are already conducting your sea trials as it were. Saw the live stream and checked on 'traffick which showed location. Wonderful.
Andy, excellent video especially your sail manufacturer reps pointing out different cut of headsails and their effects on the boat. Sure would love more on the diffefent magerials used todsy for ocean causing bkats today AgInove seeing you getting OCEAN MELODY seaworthy. FWCS.⛵️
Andy, I was a helmsman and foredeck for numerous large racing boats. Generally the foredeck guy would be expected to go up the mast but not me. I couldn’t do it. So Bravo to you.
G'day Crew,
Hey Andy,seems to me a 15 cm joiner would be more ridged and less liable to flex & break than the original 30cm piece.
Good luck with it all.
Respect....!
I absolutely agree. The physics says shorter is stronger because longer has more leaverage
Nice job Andy.
The foil joiners being a bit smaller really won’t make much difference, just keep an eye they don’t twist, but I’d call that a permanent repair.
That sail also doesn’t look too bad at all, looks the right size and shape for the boat. As long as it’s not too blown out, definitely keep it as a spare.
Oh and that ladder looked useful definitely.
Hear hear, joiners are fine, job done, move on 👍
Absolutely! As you said several times, the only time they need strength is to hoist the forestay to the masthead and they have now done that so the repair job is entirely satisfactory and nothing more needs to be done. AND it’s an old system that doesn’t have that much life anyway. How much lipstick can you put on a pig? Within a couple of years you will have spent £3k-4k on an all new system. Save your money and your time for that.
HOWEVER, what you will need to pay particular attention to is that your furling line runs absolutely fair, with nothing even close to resembling chafe points. You will sail with this sail part furled (reefed) quite a lot, with enormous strain on the furling line, and a broken furling line in a big wind is just a huge mess you absolutely don’t want. Sometimes you may need to divert your furling line to a block inboard somewhere, or even outboard of a stanchion to make it run fair. The forward lower shroud chainplate can be a particular problem. Best advice is to check it constantly for months to make sure it is not being chafed.
Hi Andy I am not an Engineer but I have the jist of how the joiners work . And like you and a few others have said they will be fine .
At the end of the day I can't see how having all that extra material eather side of the joint is really any benefit. It's just relying on the strength of the material at the very joint itself. And not 150 mm each away.
That's why it broke at the very joint and no further. Look at it this way If it was possible to get it in one lenth they would, it's a transport and ease of handling thing that why it's in several lengths and needs joiners. Dont spend any more money on it .
Just my two Bob's worth.
Love the videos keep safe.
This advise will not help you for this time working with the furler but can help your followers and you the next time. The problem on the foil is bending. The bending moment is greatest, when you span from end-to-end which is what you were doing by supporting the drum with the halyard on the masthead eye. You can reduce the bending by at least 1/3 by using a prusik knot to the foil about 10' down from the top. This also makes it easier to install the pin into the masthead because the support is well below which allows you to align it easily. I am a structural engineer and use this method to lift huge precast wall panels from horizontal to vertical without cracking them.
Hello Andy, from Ireland again, lol. Congratulations on selling the other yacht. That was a fantastic bit of kit, if only I could afford it 😢. God, Andy, it's getting closer and closer to push-off Captain. That's some ladder you're using, Andy. 😅. I would rather you than me, bro. Those Sails ⛵️old or new look great when up, I love that new canopy. You just put on. Great video, again Andy, keep it up, knot long now. Chat later. 💯👌👏👏⛵️🥰🇮🇪
what could go wrong ? nice view from the top of the mast .
Hahaha well quite a lot can go wrong.
I like to think the way I’m doing it the risk is low but the penalty would be high.
There is more to sails than just a bit of cloth. I found the insert with your sail makers very interesting. Im not a sail boater, so explanations of how your kit works is always welcone. Happy sailing
Andy, you can insert and bond an aluminum rod in the hole in the existing extruded fitting to join the halves and then weld the two halves
The whole thing slides up the rigging. The main rigging forestay goes up the hole in the middle
On my 50 year old sailboat the furler seems to be excellent shape, bad news all other systems need attention. I have Tazmanian built unit.
Nice one Andy. And yes you have I guess moved on the boat now. I saw your live with Melissa using her phone camera and mic as you lost the proper mic lol. Live was good to see unfortunately the camera phone mic and wind don't work well together. So audio was not Melissa's doing.
I hope this sail you know have rigged up works out and you do eventually get your metal slip pieces what ever you call it ASAP. Ladder going up mask I hope you get those plastic pieces to add to the six which you are only using as I am not sure I'd keep going up and down ladder without proper number of sliding edges what ever you call them. Glad you are using Precision Sails as they are Canadian my Country and darn good EH! Okay mate stay safe and see you next video or live cheers
Hi here Andy. Yo could call Alden steel in Southampton. They are a lovely company. They are just round the corner from Oceanquay marina in Southampton. Alde steel.
I have a similar mast ladder. It’s one of the best purchases I’ve made. You can run an extra halyard through a belay device on your climbing harness, take in the slack as you go, then repel back down. Bobs you uncle! You can handle the mast alone in an emergency.
Andy, if you wanted to try another solution that does not involve remaking the joiners, I would suggest you try welding again, but with a slight difference. The highest force in the joiner will be where the foil joins, so right were your weld was with the last repair. Instead, take the two pieces and cut one in half. Then weld the two half onto each end. This will move the weld away from the highest stress zone, while also extending the joiner so that it can spread the force over more of the foil.
I would not be at all worried that the shorter joiner will break, I would imaging the issue is that it could damage the aluminium foil when the high forces pry the ends of the aluminium foil open
I totally agree
Hi Andy, Melissa, lightning Jack and Little Ollie. Yes I agree 100%. There’s a cable that goes right through that hold your master app there well when you’re furling in then it might have a little bit of pressure on it, but I believe it’s totally fine. Keep up the good work. Love and appreciate you guys Cliff from Australia
Brilliant content ,great skills .
Thanks
I did exactly that on a fuler . 3 sections. still working today. I was fitting a furler that was too long for the boat i was working on.
Good to know!
Some water in you anchor light .
Yes innoticed that to job for another day eh
Great to see this finished, also the roof and windows look great. So far and now at the start of the journey :-)
Hi Andy, I do think your fix for the foils is a perfectly adequate fix for the short term. But I do agree that replacing them at there full length should be done. As well has holding the foils sections together while you host it up they are also the bearing for the foil at each joint against the forestay so by reducing there length you are reducing the bearing surface area and this could have an affect on how they wear against the forestay.
Great live coverage the other day, following on marine traffic around North Wales, but all the best on your future travels.
Well done Andy you faced your demon and won like the ladder and winch far better than a bosun chair 😊😊
Hello there from ChCh, NZ .... Now ..... Those 'Joiners' .... My opinion is that they are More than enough at 1/2 Length .... The 'Rule of Thumb' is that ' 2 X Diameter ' is already as strong as you will get ... 2.5 X is 'Braces and Belt' Territory .... :-) :-) :-)..... AND you have the 'Forestay' also supporting the Joint from the Inside .... There is No Way that you could ever Bend a 150mm Length of the Cable under Tension ... !!!! IF someone drops off some 2nd Hand Joiners .... Take them :-) :-) :-) .... I would never have some new pieces manufactured..... Just having some FREE spares would be a bit of 'Peice of Mind' .... Best to ALL, Stay Safe .... Happy Sailing ....
I completely agree with all of that :) great to have other people saying what I am thinking
Well done. Enjoy the grand adventure
That old sail probably was much better when it was made. They don't last that long.
You may be right
Don’t know if you have looked at getting them 3D printed in stainless 316. 3D metal sintered printing is Cost is dependent on amount of material but may be cheaper than getting an engineering shop to machine. The process is pretty easy just get a cad design of he part which harken may have if not that will have to be made up in a 3D design software.
God, man, modern rigs are mind bogglingly complicated, and when they go wrong, they go WRONG. My boat has no winches, no roller furler, wooden blocks, and solid spruce spars with a gaff ketch rig. Old fashioned, simple, no complicated mechanical bits to crap out. I'll be putting old-school tarred ratlines on the stays to get aloft.
I agree it’s a long running argument begeeen roller furling and hank on headsails ultimately though you have the choice between
On the one hand. Greater complications, requiring more regular inspection to identify issues before they arrive, plus added weight and a less than perfect sail shape.
Vs
On the other hand, sending my wife or son up to the foredeck in heavy seas to try to change sails while I wrestle the helm, or leave my wife trying to wrestle the helm while I go up on the foredeck to change sails.
If you’re a crewed boat with plenty of hands on deck then I agree with your thoughts.
But with proper maintenance, the convenience and safety advantages of roller furling vastly out weight the performance advantages of Hank on sails for most cruising families.
Remember we’re a cruising family with kids on board.
Cheers guys.. 😊
Dont Blame Ya I cant even handle going too the Edge of a 1 Story Balcony LOL
Stay tuned: It´s a HAPPENING!
Maybe, it is not so difficult to make those joints: take an appropriate round tube and weld a flat bar to it ( like an underscored "O" as a profile), i think that should do it.
I thought that too. Looking at solutions
Won't the mk1 connectors work on the Mk2, just add the drilling and tapping instead of roll pins. Or is it a completely different profile. Or if it's close but needs only minimal machining instead of scratch building some new ones?
You can’t get either of them. I’ve no doubt they are interchangeable but as both are long since discontinued it’s a moot point
Brave man!
Your foil joiners look like they are extruded Aluminum not milled aluminum (Billet?). Normally the extrusion process is faster, thus cheaper. They machine a die (shape) and then push lenghts out. Have you searched getting them made via an extrusion process?
Schary being in the top of a mast.every thing just looking so high. Been there done that😮. Anyhow you are safe just your mind playing some trix😊. Dont like highs myselfe😮
Your a braver man than me Andy!👍
Hahaha no I’m not. I’m just better at putting on a brave face maybe
Why don't you have the joiner parts 3d printed out of carbon fiber or metal. It would be fast on return.
Apologies for the formica (a mis-post as you might have guessed) but well dealt with!
Instead of using a CNC machine to whittle down a steel bar, why not melt some steel into moulds made from the remaining connectors?
You climbing that mast has further convinced me that I cannot be a sailer. Kudos to you for doing that. I'd rather fly. Lol
Andy, I used to have a Westerly Konsort with a Profurl P30 Roller Reefing. The joiners used to hold plastic bearing pieces that protected the forestay from corrosion where it met the aliminium of the joiner. does the Harken not have similar and if not what if any corrosion protection does it have? The joiners on my system were only 10cm anyway so you shouldn't have any problems.
I've never sailed, guess what, retirement plans this year include it...thanks to you
Dang good idea re ladder mast and winch assist works well. Couple years Capt Jack be roaring up and down the mast like a monkey. 😅😮 Just something else to be doing in ya travels mate.😅 Ya are a Trooper man lot of people would not do what you get up to Fella.😂😂 Now ya under way ya can just take it easy now and go find some Sun I think Mel said ya heading to Portugal for Summerish 😮😅😅 Good sailing now.😅😅
At 0:22, I notice the 'joiner pieces' have a ~22mm circular hole. Why, instead of just trying to weld the two cut 15cm parts together, did you not just weld in a solid 30cm length of aluminium rod 22mm in diameter o effect a repair. That would be the way to do it.
Because the main rigging wire goes through that hole
@@SailingMelody I was wondering if that was the situation, in that case, you can use a sleeve made of thick-walled aluminium tubing that will allow the rigging to pass through or an aluminium rod that has been drilled large enough to allow the rigging to pass through. ;)
😮It was not convenient to climb the ladder without a safety line.
There was a safety line! 😁
Andy, who makes the mast ladder you used? Thanks, Chris
Why not take a solid rod and insert through the middle of the two halves. To keep in drill and tap.
Because the profile would be wrong.
A solid rod, round or square, would
Not fit properly and would twist inside the aluminium foil
@@SailingMelody And there wouldn't be a hole for the stay to go through!
❤❤❤❤
If the part functions as you describe make a polymer mould cnc two halves and cast epoxy glass with a bit o carbon trim and Bob's your uncle. Sell them into the market place. Filled epoxy outside straight laminations on i.d. pex tube inner stay clearance?? kick starter anyone?
As always love your content dud🎉mes. I await your first detethered voyages.
Have you thought about 3D printing the joiners ?
Boat in sailable condition. It's a family cruiser and not a racer. Imperfect foresail is better than none. You can safely get from point A to B. Maybe a little slower than the perfect sail. Which you will get soon enough.
Get some 3d printed!
I thought that but they’d be too weak. They do t need to be very very strong but they do need to be milled from aluminium not printed in plastic
My smaller plastimo furling gear has plastic joiners!
@@SailingMelody
3D printing aluminium is possible, Sir. I just guggld it.
Can you cast the piece out of aluminum or bronze?
Is this some sort of UK vs USA thing? Almost any machinist shop would be able to duplicate that in less than a week depending on work load and material type. Heck most hobby machinists could do this with the right CAD or measurement drawings in a day or less once again depending on material type. Hell I know of a guy that lives in a Corn Field name WES that could probably knock that out in his spare time. Am I missing something here? Accurate measurements, tolerances, metal type, etc.
The joiner can you not use a stainless steel rod down the middle to straighten the weld ?
The stainless wire runs up the inside so no can’t do that. Thanks for the suggestion though
Hi Andy, I am not an engineer but I do understand mathematics. With reference to your aluminum connecting inner slides, their purpose is to connect the foils and not to add strength. They are not designed to bend, consequently the longer they are the more bending load will be put on them, (lever), As a result the shorter they are the better.
Seen too many furling lines pulled out of furlers by furling with winches and puts all the sail out. If you can't do it by hand, you have a problem with the system
True. I don’t know why I put it on the forward winch. I wouldn’t normally do that
@SailingMelody it happened on a boat i was crewing, off Southern Ireland, came on watch to find the guys struggling with the full jib out in a 7 gusting 8+.
We had to crawl forward on the side decks and drop the sail out of the furler and gasket it to the lifelines while the bow was pitching into a nasty swell at night. Was a wet one!
They should have simply run off downwind whilst furling it behind the main and it would have come in fine. Furling upwind always puts inordinate stress on headsail furlers.
@@PaulBKal furling line had pulled out of the drum. Lee shore
What amount of 'personal kit' for each person did you end up taking aboard for the start of your trip ?
That is, what non essential stuff is being taken ?
Well we’re still working that out. It’s our home and we have kids so there’s more personal kit than a normal boat I would imagine
I Assume the joiners are Al. do you know the grade used Andy? Though it could be the same as the exterior.🧙🏻♂️
Not a clue to be honest
@@SailingMelody outer looks anodised and probably marine grade ..no problem someone will know even possibly Harken.
I saw you guys heading for Beaumaris so know your underway anyways.👍🏼
👍🏽
👍
3d print ?
It still is a bit high for me😅
Weren't you sailing away the other day
Yes it was a real time live update the other day.
Id say at 15cm that would be plenty. 300mm was overkill. 👍🏻
NO