Audiophile Roundtable:RHINO High-Fidelity's Patrick Milligan & Kevin Gray Unbox The Cars & Coltrane!
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- Опубликовано: 25 май 2023
- Audiophile Roundtable:
Please join Steve Westman with special guest’s RHINO Records’ Senior Director of A& R Patrick Milligan and Cohearent Audio’s Kevin Gray.
Patrick and Kevin discuss why (Rhino Records) is getting into the audiophile “premium vinyl” market.
Kevin unboxes the new RHINO High Fidelity albums The Cars and Coltrane’s Sound from the series. Kevin and Patrick talk sound and the mastering process.
Patrick discusses RHINO’s processes in choosing titles for the new premium series.
Steve asks Patrick if Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath will ever get the RHINO High Fidelity treatment in the future. Here's to hoping!!!!!!!!!!
Plus a lot more! 
Развлечения
Good conversation. I think we may be getting over saturated with audiophile Jazz. More rock titles are really needed in this format. Not many labels doing rock titles like this
I think the Black Sabbath catalog could be a real win if the decide to remaster it.
@@stevewestman7774 Rhino has done the whole Sabbath catalogue AAA in 2009, but they had cheap covers, and they were pressed at Rainbo. Its time for high quality pressings
@@thomascars1 yep, my Rhino AAA pressing of Paranoid came warped with a skip pressed into track one, side one. I got it sealed with a collection I acquired, so it wasn’t something I could return. Honestly, I’m not super happy with the sound of it in general, and the printing quality of the jacket is sub par as well.
@@stevewestman7774if they can get the UK masters.
100% -- It boggles the mind that a catalog label like Rhino isn't doing AAA mastering with as many of their releases as possible. The master tapes of the rock era aren't going to last into the next generation, and the next generation may not even care about classic rock anyway. Time to get moving with more than two releases every quarter, if only just to max out the WEA bottom line, now, while there's an audience who'll pony up. If it was possible to buy more of these AAA releases, trust me, I would. FYI, the Chris Bellman AAA of "If I Could Only Remember My Name" beats the OG Monarch pressing by miles. It was staring back at me, used, for $10, so I picked it up and WOW is that release impressive.
So much for getting the shipping issues fixed. I just received my shipment and the corners were absolutely obliterated inside the cheap ULINE mailer. The icing on the cake was the shipment was missing a record. placed my order on May 31 and got it today, with 2 of 3 records in my order. Corporations like Warner don’t GAF and never will.
So good. Thank you. Would love to see more audiophile new wave titles.
Great guests!! Thanks for getting someone from Rhino to talk to us
My pleasure. It was a very interesting roundtable. Lots of good info.
Love: the sound of the new releases and the angled-cut inner sleeves. Hate: how the website sends you back to the top of the first page after you’ve gone through multiple pages of releases and then pick one to look at.
No 45, no 180 g, no 1/2 speed master / perfect!!!
Thanks Kevin
Loved the first all analog recording - Kristen Edkins (sp?)
Great convo, thanks. Looking forward to getting my delivery real soon.
Thanks. Me too.
I really enjoyed that! Thank you Steve!! :-}
Thank you. My pleasure. It was a lot of fun.
RHINO's historic contribution to the music world can't be overstated. What a wonderful company. I have spent countless hours over the years listening to their awesome lovingly produced music over the decades. (And a big shout out to Have A Nice Day of course.)
Thanks for watching.
1:07 did Kevin just get GOATed? I think you just inadvertently GOATed him. 😂
Great guests and great topics. Can you imagine how huge a RSD release of a bonus track, 2 LP pressing of Buckingham Nicks record would be? I’ve scored 3 original Polydor gatefold copies since I opened my store, the most recent, which is an upgrade copy for me, a solid VG+ and sounds wonderful.
Here is what I wrote:
Wow! Just WOW!!!!!
I was hesitant to get this. I was already committed to getting the Coltrane Sounds. I have the definitive first pressing and it is already an incredible sounding record. How could one even the great Kevin Gray make this sound any better? I started reading some reviews all of which stating that he did.
The main thing Kevin Gray said he did was remove the filter off the bass of the recording to make it sound like the original tapes.
Well. All I can say is that I ended up getting both the Coltrane Sounds and The Cars self titled. I am glad I did. Not just because it is now sold out and fetching over $100 on the secondary market. I surmise those numbers are just going to go up and no I am not selling mine.
He did it!
Upon when the record gets better boy a few seconds in I am like THE BASS!!!!
At first I sm thinking “this is too much!”
But it’s (almost) too much of EVERYTHING!! The huge low end is only equaled of a sonic explosion of mid-range, a wide open soundstage, every small nuance imaginable a sonic adventure that took my breath away to the point where after listening, I needed a moment to catch my breath. It left me needing to wait a while before I put on another record. The record is so magnificent in sound space, detail and dimension that you almost need to prepare yourself before listening to it again.
Saying it’s like listening to “said record” for the very first time is cliche. However…..
The Cars may not be the greatest rock record of all time but it is up there. Way up there. It now mat be the best sounding rock album of all time.
Yeah. It’s that good. HEAVY!!!!!!
🤠
Thanks Robert. Could not agree with you more. The Cars cut kicks ass.
Great insights here. Nice work Steve.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Excellent! My copy of the cars is due on the 1st of June and you asked all the right questions.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching.
Just listened to it. WOW!!!!! Kevin Gray nailed it. Only thing I would change is that your underselling it. I would make the OBI bright blue or red with a huge vertical AAA and mention Kevin Gray in a larger lettering just under it. I think these are going to be hugely successful! Great job!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the great conversation with Kevin and Patrick. I'm also in Canada, and just ordered from Warner Music Canada. Still probably more than people in the US paid, but in CDN $ and no issues with having to cross the border. Although it doesn't ship until June 2nd.
Thanks for watching Brian. Enjoy the music.
Great interview, really enjoyed it
Thank you.
Great guests! On another note, we as Canadians do NOT pay duty on records. We do pay the usual sales taxes that we do on anything purchased locally or imported. We do often have to pay 'brokerage' fees, but that is not a duty or tax from the Canadian government. Those insanely high fees are charged by FedEx and UPS to fill in a simple form declaring the items to customs.
Those fees are so insane for us Canadians. Just brutal. Thanks for watching.
Great discussion. It is great news that Rhino, under Patrick's leadership, are releasing audiophile albums themselves and pricing them at a cost that is reasonable. From a marketing standpoint, I think it is a good idea to balance the releases between rock and jazz.
I am really excited to see what the next titles will be.
Hey Mr Steve! I love these audio discussions you do! Glad i got everything secure after the hack i had on my account!
Much appreciated. Have a great weekend.
Great vid! Curious if their exclusive direct to consumer channel model is useful for the growth of the space in general (I realize VMP, and others already do this)? Consumers want to shop where they want; I for one find myself buying 2+ titles from AS, Blue Note, or a local retailer at a time. I would not be visiting Rhino directly to do this otherwise. 🤷
I like what Rhino is doing. I just ordered The Cars. The local retailers of course do not like this Direct to Consumer thing, but I could care less what website I get it from.
Yeah it’s apparently all about them re the shop owners. They’re mad they can’t take your money instead rhino. Like you said, who cares where it’s coming from
The Coltrane is in the Poetic Champions Atlantic box, The Cars debut is such a great sounding original
Damn this video just sold me on the Coltrane
Steal Chad Kassem’s diaper on LZ?
great conversation as usual Steve, thank you!. To be honest, those Coltrane Atlantic titles are great musically, but I think Kevin is maybe been a little polite about Tom Dowd's recorded sound, it might not be bad in those jazz titles, but I don't think it's up to the standards of other labels like Blue Note, Prestige, Contemporary, Columbia or Verve. As jazz fans, we'be been spoiled by excellent recordings and excellent reissues too!. My wish would be for them to release mono audiophile versions of every Coltrane title on Atlantic, I like the "My Favorite Things" mono cut by Kevin way more than the stereo version, and maybe my biggest issue with many of these records is the stereo panning, since they tended to leave a hole in the middle. I'd love if you could ask Kevin if there are separate stereo and mono mixes on these Coltrane (and other jazz) Atlantic titles, or if it's like in Blue Note, where Rudy just stopped doing mono mixes in 58 and just started folding stereo mixes for mono releases. Anyway, excellent work Steve, best wishes from Chile!
Thanks so much. I will ask Kev and get back to u with the answer in this thread.
@@stevewestman7774 awesome, thank you Steve
Great interview. Fun to have someone from the label join in. I agree that duo rock would be better than one jazz, one rock. Let Blue Note do jazz and let us have more rock.
Thank you. Like Patrick mentioned I think they may look at demand and what’s working etc down the road for releases. Here’s to hoping for an audiophile Black Sabbath release. 🙏
@@stevewestman7774 that would be great and maybe some Talking Heads. Would love to know what rock lp they scrapped and if we will see it down the road.
I have NM WLP of the 1st two Cars Lps. I like the MOFI debut too. Rhino will do a great job on these I'm sure.
I got mine Friday. It sounds great. You can really hear the keyboard
Good to know. I’m hoping mine gets delivered later this week.
I’d love to be able to comment on The Cars record but my album arrived damaged weeks ago so I’ve not opened it and I’ve yet to get a response from the email I’ve been told to report damage, too. And, even then, my first two emails were kicked back to me from the address because of an internal error/overload. To charge “audiophile” prices and use basic cardboard mailer with no added protection is a real FU to consumers. As for the record/music, I’m confident it will be great…if I ever get to play it…
I can tell you this is my first purchase straight from Rhino and I can say that 1. They ship ULTRA slow! Expect an order to take At Least a week to ship. 2. Their customer service Sucks! No number to call and they make you wait at least 2 days for a response to an email. And even then it’s an Automated response with the same old excuse that their support questions volume is high…. and your question doesn’t get answered. At All. 3. Now I’m reading on Discogs that their record mailers are crap. Same size as the record with No stiffeners or any other type of protection. So everybody’s getting their Cars record with dinged up corners! Tell me, what’s the point in giving these “hifi” records nice stoughton tipon jackets, if they’re just gonna destroy them with cheap packaging?! This is just Sad! They are Not ready for the audiophile game. They are not ready to compete with Acoustic Sounds or the like. THEY ship their records in big whiplash mailers with cardboard AND bubble wrap because they actually Care that the product gets to the paying customer in the same condition as when it left the company. Rhino is just as Cheap as their name. There is No Excuse to be just as bad as Amazon in their packaging. They definitely have to step up their game if they’re gonna start issuing highly desired records!
I'm in Canada, last time I ordered an album from Analogue production it had a 60$ value, I had to pay an extra 38$ to fedex, only 4$ was actual duty the remaining was service charges. No more, if my local dealers don't carry, it forget it.
We get smoked as Canadians on the charges.
It's going to be only for US buyers. This direct to the lablels pocket scheme is a mistake
@@stevewestman7774 I paid $72 to Fed EX weeks after I got my Miles Kind Of Blue UHQR45. So Orig USD price + $20USD to ship to the Canadian border from Kansas. I get the record delivered in less than 4 business days. Then, 3 weeks later FEDEX hits me up with a $72 bill. Never again. Steve maybe you want to be a Canadian reissue vinyl distributor or I could do it? No really, if it made sense $$ as a business I would consider it.
I wish they would do some of Elvis’ original Lp’s. 😊
i will take a sabbath full set too please,good chat today also
One can hope 🙏🙏
It would be great to have some Led Zeppelin for sure
Oh let’s hope one day.
Hey, Steve! Great video but I’m a little bummed about the fact that they’re going through Optimal. I received my Coltrane record recently and it’s defective with bubbles on both sides. I sent an email to Rhino and got an auto response that says they can’t respond at this time. Makes me hesitant to get the next round
Thank you. Sorry you have had issues. What’s your email address. I will see if I can help.
@@stevewestman7774 my comment keeps disappearing. Have you seen them or maybe they’re automatically getting deleted by RUclips?
Is there a way to send you my email without posting it here?
@@ajsn5396 stevewestman@rocketmail.com
Bring on the Black Sabbath!!
I know. Right. 🙏
I'd much rather buy from a local retailer or an online retailer that offers free shipping and that I have a good relationship with if returns are needed
Albums from Mountain and the West, Bruce & Laing "Why Dontcha" album would really benefit from being remastered on vinyl. Also the 1st solo album David Gilmour from 1978.
I think they’re gonna go for titles ppl have actually heard of, not one guy. I’m just saying. Make the money first with the popular acts then maybe go into the less mainstream ones.
@@Groover71 They keep doing the same artists over and over.
I love your show I’ve been buying records since the late 60s. I’m a blues guy but I’m crazy about Bossa nova the stuff from the 60s like Astrud Gilberto & Jobim. Those recordings are just killer but still no one talks about them. Any how if you get Kevin on again ask him what he likes 33 or 45. I had my choice with Eva Cassidy’s new one and I took the 33. I find with 45 they can sound better but every 10:00 min. your flipping the record.
Thanks Mike. I appreciate your support. I will ask Kevin and get back to u on this thread. Have a good weekend.
I love Mr. Grundman, but Optimal is not the best pressing plant. They are certainly a fine pressing plant, but the vast majority of any pressing issues I've ever run into are from Optimal. Give me RTI or Analog Productions any day. Great interview. 👽✌️
You mean Mr. Gray?
I'd love to hear some Joni Mitchell stories from Patrick next time he's a guest!
I would love to have Joni Mitchell on to tell Joni Mitchell stories. That would be cool.
Steve still pushing for that LZ AAA represses😂😂. And I’m behind you Steve!!
Maybe Jimmy will finally listen one day. But, I’m afraid those presses will only come after Jimmy passes. 😢.
Always. Until it happens. Come on Jimmy 🙏
Put me down for a pre-order on the Black Sabbath
Here’s to hoping. 🙏
Too bad the Dig! store they mentioned is charging $62 (£50) shipped for the record, so much for hitting a great price point with the rest of the world. I still ordered both, i may need help.
Can you please ask Rhino to go back to using good mailers? My Coltrane Sound arrived in the UK with a box that offers minimal corner protection, as with a Dead box a that arrived a couple of weeks ago damaged. Doesn’t make sense to use cheap mailers on a quality product 🤷🏻♂️. Also Uk Rhino store can’t tell me if the will get the upcoming Little Feat records 😂.
The are definitely reading all of the comments.
Steve, ease up on your chatter and let the main guys talk more. A few times Patrick tried to say something but you kept rattling on. Other than that a great video!
How about Lindsey Buckingham’s Out of the Cradle?? Seriously needs a reissue! 🙏🏻
One can hope. Would be amazing.
Something I feel isn’t brought up enough in this conversation is how do these AAA “remasters” compare, sonically, to original pressings, aside from what is usually considerably better vinyl? How does the age and multiple handlings of the original tape(s) effect things like nuance, clarity, and even sibilance? A good example, would be the Traffic box set I bought a few years ago. Yes, the packaging is great, the 180g pressings feel nice (although half were warped), and the vinyl is obviously far superior in it’s almost silence in the deadwax, but I don’t think any of them sonically, and most especially in the vocals, sound better than good, early originals. I was excited to get that set, but now I’m more likely to play my less than perfect originals instead.
Although one often hears: "The (40+ years) tapes are in great condition", they of course were in better condition right after the recording sessions were finished and the tapes were being used for making the first batch of records. Another factor may be the equipment that was used in the 1970s and early 1980s for mastering/making these records. Certainly one can not duplicate that "original" sound easily.
@@anton88istwhich is why “analog tape to DSD to analog console” shouldn’t be considered the Devil by so many in the audiophile community. If you’re getting the original tape put onto a file with the best equipment around, you will ALWAYS have that original tape sound without any degradation.
Yes! I got excited to hear Rhino is doing audiophile pressings. Rhino has always picked great rock albums to reissue. There Needs to be more audiophile Rock! There is Way too much focus on Jazz by Analogue Productions and I don’t even consider Mofi now with their digital process. I’m hoping the QC will be better on these, than their previous remasters. Warps, off center spindle holes, etc. were very often the only issue with their previous releases.
You don’t “consider” MoFi bc of a digital step when many of those releases are considered the best sounding version you can get of that particular album. Congrats on that backwards thinking.
But nowadays a good AAA giant steps is not that easy to find. I hope that they consider it later on
Like Mr. Milligan mentioned in the vid it’s always something they could look at in the future.
The problem with Optimal is that their pressings have a unique underlying surface noise. Their plant is also not very clean and I've found all kinds of stuff on their pressings. My Beatles Mono "White Album" had bird poop on one of the records.
EMI wanted Rainbo Records to press the Beatles Mono Box, but because of how much of their factory capacity the Stereo Box took up, they didn't want to be tied up like that again with the Mono Box.
Your experience seems extremely unusual. I’ve purchased many, many records pressed at Optimal in recent years, to include most of the BN classic series catalogue, and I’ve had none of the problems you speak of. I’ve had maybe a handful of warped records, but that seems inevitable these days.
Optimal has definitely been getting better but there have been some dirty records there. GZ is the worst, I would much prefer however for a premium series like this for it to be pressed at RTI or QRP, they are leagues ahead of the others.
@@chelillingworth9466 I would prefer RTI, as they use a higher quality vinyl mix. They do have their issues, but they are far and few between. Although QRP also uses a higher quality vinyl mix, they have a problem with pressing the records. The most common issue is atleast one side being pressed off-center. It's hit or miss with QRP.
One of my recent purchase was the classical "Witches' Brew" LP. I tried 2 copies and both had a bunch of pops and ticks in one of the quietest section, at the same place on both records. I also purchased their SACD, which showed that those sounds weren't in the original recording.
I knew that Classic Records had done this LP and it was mastered by Bernie Grundman. Chad Kassem bought out Classic Records and with it he got all it's master discs. Analogue Productions has normally used those masters. I was curious so I sought out and found a CR sealed copy on their Clarity vinyl. The sound was astonishing! It was even better than the SACD! At that point, it came to me that the AP versions were either not made from the original master or that original master had deteriorated.
Although I really don't consider myself an audiophile and my hearing isn't what it used to be, I have noticed that many people don't know what a good record should be. The tone arm is not supposed to wag back and forth or look like it is on a rolling ocean. My suspicions are confirmed when I find out that the whole production run was like this.
@@therealdonelaitis I wouldn't say unusual but maybe I notice things which others don't. There have been opportunities when a record was pressed somewhere else, in addition to Optimal. The main differences are that Optimal often produces dirtier records and they seem to have more surface noise, which I call the "Optimal rumble".
When comparing an LP pressed at Optimal and a U.S. plant, I can usually pick out the Optimal LP from the underlying surface noise. When more than one pressing plants are used, they usually source from the same master discs. You can find this out when comparing the etchings in the deadwax.
One example is the Beatles "Stereo LP Box". This was pressed at both Optimal and Rainbo Records. Both used masters provided by Abbey Road. This is when the "Optimal Rumble" became apparent to me, so I could recognize it in other Optimal pressings.
The only differences were in the presses and the vinyl used, besides who pressed them. I have noticed that most of the high quality U.S. pressings have less surface noise, which I attribute to different vinyl mixtures.
I've heard all the he said, she said opinions, but nowhere have I found that they had A/B'd them as I have.
I don't consider myself an audiophile and just have a little above "average Joe" equipment. Seeing all the high-dollar "Frankenstein" turntables so-called audiophiles use, which ignore the basic advances the first audiophile turntables had, I realize that they aren't able to hear what I hear. Why do you thing that so many turntable manufacturers copy the Technics SL-1200? Technics took the basic audiophile tone arm design, introduced decades before, and made improvements with the rest of the turntable. When Technics re-introduced the SL-1200, they made some tweaks. but they didn't change the basics. With putting so much effort into resurrecting the turntable from the dead, why wouldn't they come out with a totally different model? Technics didn't set out to make an audiophile turntable, but a great heavy-duty one for commercial usage and then they realized, as did companies like AT, that audiophiles were buying their turntables. AT made some tweaks and then Technics re-introduced a tweaked SL-1200.
Rhino should sell this in shops. Direct to consumer from US is a no-go from the EU. It becomes too expensive. Re-think the strategy. It's a mistake.
Fully agree. Mike from the In Groove hit the head on the nail. Total missed opportunity. With shipping and tax within USA around $53 for a single album pressed at Optimal. No bueno.
Great to see Rhino joining in and releasing some AAA vinyl. Packaging looks fantastic as well. Unfortunately their sales model is really just a big extended middle finger to anyone outside of the USA. What an unfortunate, short sighted decision. This series is really an irrelevance to us - except for the academic interest. Probably won't bother them as they will sell their 5000 to the US market.
Luckily there is an increasing amount of enlightened record companies who recognise that distribution is not their strong point - thinking of Blue Note, Craft/Concord, Verve Acoustic Sounds and OJC who are producing audiophile vinyl which is readily available for reasonable prices world wide. Even Acoustic Sounds and Mofi are distributed much better. What we need are more non-Jazz music released in AAA audiophile. The recent editions of Marvin Gaye What's Going On and Curtis Mayfield Superfly show it can be done and will sell well.
For those of us in Europe, Asia, Australasia or anywhere outside of the US there are so many more choices of AAA high quality vinyl that we have plenty of locally available stuff to spend our $ on - but it is a shame Rhino has chosen to opt out of our markets.
Thanks for watching.
Steve needs a friend in Northern Washington state to meet near the border and avoid tariffs
an AAA led z master by kevin ? 30 000 copys would sell out in pre order
Absolutely!
Unfortunately cannot share your enthusiasm for Optimal. The Amazon returns dept must be sick of me...
Interesting the love for Optimal here...they have seemed to be problematic recently. Not " Optimal" by any means.
Also Optimal is not better than Pallas. Give me a break.
I agree! Most of the records I have were pressed at Optimal have been plagued with non-fill!!! I spend more time waiting for replacements than I do listening to them.
@@Alan_Always I get that they are hyping a product, and I ordered the Coltrane, but there is no need to overstate Optimal's quality here IMHO. Pallas, RTI, QRP all better plants consistently. I guess they can't use Rainbo anymore, which is a good thing.
In the interests of fairness my Coltrane's Sound has no flaws. Packaging is nice too. If Optimal can maintain that type of pressing quality then we should be OK.
Awesome Roundtable!!! Can't wait for my Cars LP to arrive and compare to the OG. I'm sure it's 100 times better than the MoFi.
The MoFi sounds great.
Thanks so much.
@@Groover71 The MoFi sounds very flat compared to the Original done by Roy Thomas Baker "RTB". It's not even close...
Interesting on the Optimal thing. I know Patrick needs to toe the line, but Optimal sure as heck is not the best. We know they're not.
Mr. Mulligan: can you make sure Rhino sends these out with a state of the art protective box designed for shipping vinyl? So that these pretty "collectible" editions do not arrive to the consumer damaged and ugly. Last time I ordered direct from Rhino, a lousy flimsy box with no edge protection was still the way Rhino chose to send vinyl product through the mail. No surprise the items were dinged up. Please take cues from Amazon's vinyl packaging if Rhino can't figure it out. Even Amazon gets it. Thank you.
The cars album I have fabulous been purchasing Reno for years the most disappointing thing about this and it’s Reno’s fault. There’s no excuse to charge 795 for delivery. $40 is fair for the album yes but not 795 for delivery I paid for it a lot of people have it and that’s why you’re sitting with 3000 copies possibly through me hard to sell people don’t want to spend 795 and if you want the high Fidelity version which I did you have to buy it through S so I don’t know what you’re trying to accomplish raise the price to $45 include the shipping do some thing because this is gonna hurt you in the long term eight dollars for delivery is ridiculous. Good luck guys.
Not to be a "whino", but the packing materials Rhino is using for these records is a serious joke, I wouldn't ship a $10 leftover RSD piece in these mailers, what a bummer, hoping I can get an exchange on these new "used" records.
Both copies arrived in terrible condition due to the lousy box. The problem could have been avoided but no, let's produce these in fancy jackets so that they can get mangled in transit. A JOKE. Will not be buying anymore damaged product/mangled jackets from these guys. Saving the $100 instead for a company that gets it. On the same day I received these embarrassments, Blue Note Tone Poet title arrived from Amazon in a box properly designed for vinyl records. Upon opening, the album was in mint condition as typical. I took pics of opening both the Rhino embarrassment and the Blue Note from Amazon packaging. Will try to post on Hoffman Forums soon.
Man thanks for talking about Black Sabbath! Great interview!
Let’s hope RHINO gives it the audiophile treatment the catalog deserves.
@@stevewestman7774 that will be amazing and I will be forever thankful…
@@ndrsnvrzI have an original Canadian pressing of their self titled. Bloody incredible sounding. Same plates used to press the US original.
@@stevewestman7774 🥹