Peltier Module Cooling - The Peltier Effect
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- Using the Peltier effect to cool with a Peltier module, even turning water to ice. I also test the efficiency of Peltier cooling 250ml of water. The Peltier effect is also known as the thermoelectric effect.
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As someone who's just getting into electronics, this was very informative. Thank you so much, great job being so descriptive. :)
I found one of those in a mini-fridge, I was quite surprised because I thought I'd find a miniature compressor, radiator and pipes in there. Up until then I had no idea such a thing existed.
Nice work here. I've wanted to play with peltiers but didn't have the power electronics know-how to build a power supply for a base module so I like your solution of scrounging a peltier along with its power and control electronics. I especially appreciated that you took the time 1) to do the efficiency calculations and 2) to explain the calculations themselves. Thanks again.
I'm getting ready to do an air heat exchanger using the Peltier panels. This has been useful to me so thanks loads.
New video's up... Making ice with a Peltier module, and doing some efficiency testing. The efficiency calculations are on my webpage rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/peltier_effect_module_cooling_efficiency_test.htm. Enjoy!
Nice! I shared the web version. Thank you for making these videos :)
Fung Sit
Thanks for watching them, and sharing!
Love the tech specs. I did not know a watt was a joule a second. Wouldn't that mean a joule and a columb a watt second are the same amount of energy?
Columb=1amp@1v for 1 sec
Which would also be 1 watt second.
Correct me If I'm wrong..
How did I not know this??
Mongrel Shark
By "coulomb a watt second", do you mean coulomb per watt second? If so, that's coulomb per joule, not just joule. In units that's:
C/(Ws) = C/([j/s]s) = C/j
The s's cancel.
Re "Coulomb=1amp@1v for 1sec", do you mean coulomb=1amp * 1v * 1sec? If so,
1A * 1V * 1s = 1C/s * 1j/C * 1s = 1j
The C's and s's cancel, leaving just j. So yes, that's the same as 1 watt second, since,
1Ws = 1(j/s)s = 1j
I love looking at the units for volts, current, energy and watts as j/C, C/s, j and j/s. It's much clearer what you're talking about that way.
RimstarOrg LOL, Thats a complex way of looking at it. I'll stick with my kludge and gaffa tape. when I see s's canceling each other I think of freezing time....lol.
My brain hurts.
Appreciate these kinds of videos quite a bit. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
No, when you mentioned there was one, my quick look saw the insulation around the Peltier module and thought that was the Peltier module itself. So my bad.
Sounds like a good use! Really portable cooler. Well, with a power chord. Those are some serious volts and amps. Also, you'd need a way to remove the heat.
Neat idea. The hot side of my Peltier module tops out at 50C according to the specifications I found online. I think that would run one of those Stirling engines that run off the heat from a coffee mug at least.
great informing vid. My daughter and I are waiting for chips to arrive to build mini cooling system, for her Class project. will try the AC connection first then going green with a small 12 volt solar panel, I know the yeilds won't be much, but great for her showing a class it can be done. Thanks
You can also make a small cloud chamber for seeing ion tracks produced from charged particles from radioactive materials. You need a second peltier chip thermally pasted on the 12VDC one. The second peltier should receive 5VDC. Color the peltier (cold side) black on top. Then surround it with a clear acrylic box with a sponge inside on the top with 99% alcohol. Shine a light through at a low angle in the dark. Put a radioactive source inside, and you'll see amazing ion trails from radioactivity. Alpha particles are the most visible. Thanks for posting!
KarbineKyle Thanks. I've always wanted to do this, and had two peltier modules to do it with but unfortunately I broke both trying to build a popsicle maker :(, silly me. One day.
RimstarOrg How can you break peltier modules? insufficient cooling?
***** I think that's what happened to mine. The soldering connecting the wires to the cooling type modules melts at a fairly low temperature so the connections come apart. I tried resoldering them but they still didn't work. I guess allowing too much current to run through them could also potentially damage them.
@@RimstarOrg Interesting. I run these ebay-12v TECs at a higher voltage (about 17 volts) to keep the current in check (they state they are rated for up to 15 normally). I embedded a 10k probe into a copper watercooling block and even with a radiator capable of blowing off in excess of 600 watts of energy the hot side was still at the point where bad solder joins would get iffy. I can imagine over-current would exacerbate this further. I have spent too much money and time on the very same project you have here in the quest for achieving the best efficiency possible given the terrible efficiency of TEC. That said... If you have a 3d printer, print a cradle that holds the chip, heatsink and most importantly the WIRES, in a completely static position during any heating and cooling cycles. Since I did that I have been able to push these chips well beyond what they "should" be doing. Also i ramp up and ramp down now. That helped with the thermal-shock issues. Cool stuff and good luck, nice video.
Nice video, clear and practical, thanks!
This video was simply SUPERB!!!
The materials can be as simple as copper wire and stainless steal wire bonded in V style junctions. The seaback effect is a wonderful example of simple power generation. With rocket mass heater, solar stoves, and Water lenses you could very well store that heat in a mass of cob. The goal of my project is to make a low maintenance,low cost,modular, and easy to build power generation for small computing for automation. Plus you get cheap heating mass that serves multiple purposes.
I agree, water and aluminum are amazing for pulling heat. Not sure how far I'll go with this. The electricity generation I've done so far is good for demonstration purposes and simple. Regarding useful power generation, at 5% I'd lean more towards photovoltaics, though Peltier modules work at night too - though you do need the heat source. A homemade larger scale one would be interesting to see, though from my reading, the materials used are difficult to make.
MrTeslonian has a video of a crude example of a simple homemade TEG. It is called "thermal electric generator home made". Just in case you were interested.
You can't get better than 5% efficient with this Peltier module because that's the efficiency of the module itself and the way it work internally. The extra 3% of losses that brought my test down to 2% were likely due to heat entering despite the insulation. So isolating the cold side in a vaccum would help get that 2% closer to 5%, but that's the best that can be done with this module.
The bottom of the soda can does not have the ideal form for this (air insulation and very little contact to the peltier ... and why the aluminum plate ? heat transfer through more and more layers of materials is not the best idea.. one copper can with a flat base and very little thermal compound in between to prevent any air from insulating would have been better.. this was nonsense even though well explained.
That's a great point. The can has a large dimple in the bottom so there is very little contact. A glass beaker would have been a good improvement to a cool experiment.
Thank you. someone finally explained which way the fan blows.
What a incredible but yet simple video!
The other 98% of energy probably went into heating the warm side. There is cross conduction in the solid material of course that impaired the cooling of the cool side. So if you'd properly use the warm side to heat the room for instance and thus cool it by ample air convection / conduction, who knows what your cool side efficiency will be!
But a lot of fun, and a great learning experience. But yeah, practical only in limited situations, such as where you need solid state cooling in a small size.
Glad you liked it!
Not sure if it's because this video is 6 years old or if you didn't know how to respond to comments... sheesh!
I do like all your videos and am brain storming on how we can work together
You need DC for a Peltier module to work. That's why the control board in my video converted the AC to DC before sending it to the module. Good luck though. Should be fun!
I was surprised too, but because when I was told there was one in there I thought it would be for the hot water side. I didn't think the cold water side would need cooling.
I worry about the heat being too much for the hot side of the Peltier module. It can handle only 100C (212F) or a little higher before the solder connections inside start to break. Maybe adequate cooling on the cool side will take the heat away fast enough. I'll have to work up the courage to try it, and wait for a sunny day with no shade.
I don't have any numbers for the efficiency of a freon pump fridge but my understanding is it's better than a Peltier cooler. However, a Peltier cooler is more suitable for some applications since it's smaller.
very informative and good stuff
thank you so much for such a demonstration.
Hey Rimstar, if you want to measure more accurately your efficiency, I would suggest that you do not use an aluminium shim between the can and the peltier cell. The air gap between the cell and the shim act as insulation, as well as the gap between the shim and the can. Having a setup with the can directly on the peltier using thermal paste between could give you a increased efficiency.
Zatrax Traxer I didn't have any thermal paste. I agree, that would be much better. I should buy some so that I at least have it ready the next time I need it.Regarding the aluminium shim, my reasoning was that since aluminium is such a good thermal conductor it would gather heat from all over the Peltier module and transfer it to the uneven bottom of the can. The can bottom wasn't very flat at all and made relatively little contact with the module. I guess only a test would tell which approach works best.
I don't know. It's only the heat from the CPU that they're moving. The electrical current moving through them is only a few amps or less than an amp, so not much heating from the wires. But dsflores below says they haven't been used on CPUs since the 486 days, so it must be that at 5% efficiency they can't move enough heat.
@ 02:31
"And 3 minutes later it's turned to ice... cool."
Literally ! 😅😆
Great demo! you might want to check -out solar ice, I Love doing this demo!
I have 2 modules, 100 watts each. Im going to make a desktop personal air conditioner for my desk. I guess im also making a 190 watt heating element...
This is so cute :3
It used to be done, but doesn't seem to be anymore. Maybe the newer CPUs are too hot?
My Peltier module didn't cost me anything. The water dispenser was thrown out by someone else. Some computers use them for CPU cooling. Keep an eye out.
If you plug the Peltier with polarity reversed then the direction of heat flow reverses. I haven't tried it but that's what I've read.
Very nicely done and an enjoyable video to watch. Probably my fault for saying a 'sizable Peltier', oops.
A handy little thing to keep around for ice creams in summer. Small boxed unit, sit the Peltier under a mouse mat type of thing (metal in middle and as a finish) and sit your ice cream on top. Relax and enjoy, rather than mess up a good shirt !
I know Peltier modules used to be used for cooling CPUs. For some reason they don't seem to be anymore so maybe the CPUs have gotten too hot. I haven't looked into the exact reason why not.
Thanks. I'm not as expert in that area as you, but I thought they used to use Peltier modules for CPU cooling but stopped in the past few years. Did the CPUs get too hot for them and now we're waiting for the modules to catch up?
I like your miticulisness & like peoples comments that point to some good points. Some suggestions are it is only 2% effective due to current air pressure and it would be more if you are in higher altitude. I assume inside a vaccume the effectivness will jump to over 20%. for 1/2 to be in a vaccume would be interesting. Since water in a vaccume freezes in room temperature if you see videos online. But I have not seen anyone do both done. Check out vid "Water to ice in 90 seconds using vacuum" ;)
Hey, this was a great video! You may want to consider buying a professional microphone, but your editing was great and it was very informative. Cheers!
Very cool! I always thought they were a lot more efficient then that. I wonder how efficient they are at generating electricity.
I've read 5-8%. My search turned up an article from September 2012 about some research that got to 15-20% but I don't know it they made it to market or managed to get the same outside of a lab.
Wow that's surprising! I was expecting more like 1% going by how efficient they are at cooling. Very cool.
freaking awsome, now i am 1 step closer to cooling my rv without using 600watts of power.
Hello @RimstarOrg I love your video, you made it so easy to understand!....lol. I have an idea that needs invention and I think you can help with your expertise on the peltier module, it's an innovation that will be a problem solver for my country
whoa that was pretty cool.....I don't understand a lick of it but it was cool !
I've got an explanation that goes down to the electron/heat energy level but I still have some digging to go.
I was thinking of trying to make popcycles. I hadn't thought what to do with the heat. Hmmm...
So is the theory of operation basically that it cools because material is moved from the cold to the hot like some kind of subatomic PV=nRT? Is it more efficient if you use metals from opposite ends of the activity series?
Great work Rimstar. Was the water in the coke tin being stirred? How did you make sure that there was no stratification?
Pruthvi Krishna Thanks. The water wasn't being stirred and I wasn't doing anything about any possible stratification.
I'd like also some explanation video on how the module itself works internally.
Any air that is trapped between the can and peltier surface acts as an insulator. A thermal compound paste with a high thermal efficiency would dramatically improve the heat transfer. Would be interested in seeing the difference it makes on the overall efficiency. (paste cost < $3 on amazon)
+Japper There was already thermal paste between the heat sink and the peltier module. I imagine, since I'd taken it off and put it back on again, that the layer of paste wasn't complete and there was probably some air, but at least there was some paste.
maybe you could get better efficiency by using a bigger one at lower amps. I read somewhere that the higher the current the lower the efficiency. I suppose because of ohm's law, W=RxA² and as the energy transfer is linear to current one rises linearly while the other exponentially. I suppose there will be a point where it will heat more than it can cool.
Can you suggest required volts and Ampere to run peltier module
I looked into the physics of it down to the electron level and I still have to dig deeper. I debated putting the same simplified explanation that others use of how it works, but if it's not at a level that satisfies me then I don't want to do it. I'll keep researching.
Why do you think they only used the Peltier for cooling and not for both ?
I have a need for both hot and cold water and was considering using a Peltier in-between two tanks but this video has made me reluctant .
..., i would build all the awesome stuff you have built . And in Germany many people dont throw their stuff away ,only if its unrepairable or the really dont need it ,and as i remember thtere a special to put this stuff out ...
it's way more efficient to put one in series with a water cooling loop than directly on top of the cpu. the peltier has a fixed deltaT plus one powerfull enough probably wouldnt fit, so just put a water loop, and put the peltier after the radiator so that if cools the liquid further down, as the radiator can only do so up to near ambient temperature. It's better as an enhancer for water colling than as a stand alone solution. Back then it worked but now high end cpus are just too powerful.
awesome video man thanks for explaining everything!
Cooler Master tried this with their V10 Cooler. 200W cooling power was a dealbreaker, not to mention its gigantic size for a CPU Cooler. then people moved to AIO/Water Cooling.
excellent video, lot of learning.
Good. The point was to make it cool, to the point of freezing. :)
Thanks man!
You should drive peltier wit current source, and drive it not more then 70% of maximum available current for peltier.
If You have 6A peltier, then 70% of curent should be 3,5A. Voltage will rise when peltier cold side temperature is going down. This way You will rise efficiency of module.
I want to build a small version of this, I want a quiet, small fridge for my water bottle. I am more interested in overall performance. I want to control the temperature so that the cooling process is stable at 3 degree celcius. I want the system to be ultra quiet, power needs to match that of a lightbulb, and I want the system to be tiny. Let the fun begin.
all right man- very detail
hey rimstar, is it possible to cool a computer processor with this device without breaking? keep in mind CPUs constantly generate heat between 50c-70c
Thank for putting this piece up ............
Peltier unit ...... if you do not apply power ...... would it bleed heat the other way . ie if you want to transmit heat when there is the opportunity to grab it but when not , do not apply power , would it bleed out ? Or would be have any insulation value unpowered ?
+magna59 I don't understand your question. You have to apply power to do the heat transfer to heat up one side of the module. If you then turn it off, I imagine the heat would be lost fairly quickly since there is no insulation.
+RimstarOrg ....Thank you for your reply.OK,so if the side you are pushing heat into,when there is the right conditions,ie low grade heat on the down side&power available ...... but if you turn off the power,if there is a heat gradient,the unit will just allow equilibrium to be re established.Yes?...............That ' s how I understand your reply .
+magna59 I don't think equilibrium will be established between the cold side and the hot side as fast as if you'd thermally shorted it with a piece of aluminum. It does stay hot for a little while. How long, I don't know.
Sir if you please can you say how to make a atmospheric water generator using peltier plates, just need an outline idea
Me gustaria poner una celda peltier con dos disipadores y dos venriladores a una nevera de playa...merecera la pena? Que opinais?
Gracias
very cool video as always
I have some experience with these. If you were to use water instead of air to pull the heat it should make up for some of that loss. It is common for cpu coolers utilizing this tech. I have been doing experiments with these on and off for over 2 years for power generation. The cost of the units does not justify the output. I am currently trying to build a large scale one out of parts that can be easily be found. It would be for the purpose of a cheaper more sturdy alternative to these.
What happens in case of Air sir can u plz give clarity will the cooling efficiency increase in case of Air compared to water ?
Cool~ Perhaps an atmospheric water generator could be made using a peltier, although the efficiency is lacking.
respected sir.
nice demonstration no doubt.
now here i am trying to build a peltier air conditioning. i have 2*TEC1-12706 . i require 6 ampere for 1 peltier that is is attach in parallel i want 12A supply.kindly tell me where i can get this supply. it is better if i make it own .suggest me,looking for ur reply THAKNS.
sorry me english is not so well, but i have questions,
i have heard about paltier module but if you can answer me what is more efficient for air condishiner in same size of current and electric power? thank
you
nicely explained!
Would the efficiency of the hot side be identical to the cold side? All conditions assumed the same would it take the same amount of time and energy to heat the water the same number of degrees instead of cool it?
AFAIK, efficiency depends on the temperature difference between the hot side and cold side. Also, keep in mind that the hot side generates joule heat while pumping heat from the cold side.
i have peliter of 6 amper but i give 3.75 ampere to peliter it got cold but not to much only normal cold it not works like putting water on it and water turns into ice .what i can do to improve the cooling of peliter to turn water into ice please tell me??????
is the thermocouple necessary? Are you build it yourself or buy?
Can you use peltier for the hot boi snapdragon 820?
+RimstarOrg, If I connect a peltier unit that draws nine amps maximum, to an unregulated supply that can only supply that can safely supply only three amps, will it damage the power supply?
Did you know that you can use petlier modules to genenerate current? Students from AGH Institute of Technology in Poland are trying to recycle power from hot water flowing out of house.
I was thinking of using a peltier plate to run my Kontax Stirling engine, but they are quite power hungry.
Excellent,sir
Hi, thanks for this vdo, it's really good! What will happen if we reverse the supply to the peltier module? I.e. +ve supply to -ve terminal and vice versa, will the cold side become hot? Or the cold side will always remain cold?
No, it won't work that way.
Hello Steve ,
My name is Sami Thawaba, I am also a lifelong maker and I totally appreciate your work, I enjoyed and learned a lot from your videos and I have some questions to ask regarding the Peltier module: as it was shown on the oscilloscope there was a fluctuation in the voltage and I believe that was a result of the voltage being rectified as it is changed from AC to DC, would our results and cooling performance be better if we used a DC voltage from a battery ? the other question is would it be a good idea if we used a pulse width modulator as to send pulses instead of continuous current.
thanks in advance,
Regards,
Sami
+Sami Thawaba I agree, with a battery you at least wouldn't have the loss of the AC to DC conversion. You may still need circuitry for current control but I'm not sure of that. I don't know if PWM would be better.
thank you so much, so how do I get the best cooling out of TEC ?
+Sami Thawaba Use a big enough heat sink. Attach the TEC to it using thermal paste. Have a fan blowing over the heat sink's fins.
thx for ur explane i just have a q now if i conect the peltiar to a battry lets say 12volt and 120amp is it going to get the amp that it need or i must put things to let it get low amp?? so if i conect to a 12volt and 120amp direct conect is the peltiar going to dameg or its fine it will take the amp it need?? and thx
Thanks about the information. i have a question, tell me please about one of paltier part how much current and hoe much volatge does it take?
I don't know how much I actually used since I used the circuit which came with the water cooler, but searching the part number online I found this datasheet peltiermodules.com/peltier.datasheet/TEC1-12705.pdf In there you can see the maximum current it can handle is 5.3 amps and the maximum voltages are 14.2 volts at 25 degrees C and 16.2 volts at 50 degrees C. There are also graphs there which show what temperature difference you'll get for different voltages and currents.
Right on buzzfeed. Would like to see that
well if comparing the Wattage of old P4 and new I3 there is a big difference P4 was around 60w and I3 ~35w, so its significantly less, and I3 could be easily cooled with 1cm thick aluminium heatsink with 2cm diameter in center copper core and small 800rpm fan on top, the thing I would like to see if it could be done without any fans or noise making parts, P4 would be CPU that should be tested since its lot hotter tho I would go for old QuadCores like Q6600
Is there any document for the details? Like the component on PCB board?
ummm awesome and educational experiment as usual.
in the near future we will have them to cool down our hot CPUs not?
while they get developed enough to be power efficient, size and be more safe for computers :)
What happens if you plug the peltier with the polarity reversed?
hello, I use a 12 v 5A adapter to 12706 peltier, the process of cooling is really slow, any suggestion, how much Amp need to be given to the peltier?
A google search for "12706" turns up this page peltiermodules.com/peltier.datasheet/TEC1-12706.pdf which looks like the maximum is can handle is 6.4 amps, assuming that's what that means. Here's another one www.thermonamic.com/TEC1-12706-English.PDF. However, they're giving the same current for all temperatures which makes me think you control it using the voltage and not the current.
+R imstarOrg, If I connect a peltier unit that draws nine amps maximum, to an unregulated supply that can only supply that can safely supply only three amps, will it damage the power supply?
No, it won't destroy the power supply . Current of power supplies is their maximal possible output so they cant just simply output more, it doesnt mean that the power supply will get damaged.
great work
Hi! Pls can you tell me what sistem is more effective for cooling? TEC Peltier cooling sistem or normal fridge pipeing and compressor sistem? sorry for my english and Thank you!
That depends on what you need it for. A normal fridge piping and compressor system is more efficient for large applications like the fridge in your kitchen. But Peltier cooling is more practical for some things like portable camping containers, cooling some electronics, cold water dispensers. There are more efficient Peltier coolers in research laboratories, but they are not for sale yet.
You'd also need the heat, of course if you're in a hotter climate than I am... Freezing temperatures outside last night. :)
what about if we use peltier for heater , mean in winter ?
Can I run a peltier cooler using a 9V rechargable battery or a Power Bank? Whats the smallest possible power source. I'm not looking to freeze water. A 5 - 10 C drop is optimal. Thanks
Suyash Saxena That depends on your peltier module. Find the specifications for it (e.g. looking at various peltier modules on ebay they give the voltage, working current and maximum current.) It should tell you the voltage rating and how much current it can handle. As for getting a specific temperature, I don't know if it's based on current or voltage, though I suspect it's current. So you'd have to monitor the temperature while changing the current to see how much current is needed. That is unless you can find a chart of current vs temperature for your specific peltier module.
Sheesh... you even beat me to it!
how many watts do you think I would need to reduce the temperature of a small area (40 cubic feet), the area already has a ton of air movement (300 cfm+), but the cabinet still gets hot. the ambient area getting refreshed into the area is 66-68F, but the temps can still get up to 88F. I have a 600w light for growing lettuce and tomatoes hydroponically.
do you think a water for the hot side and/or cold side from a CPU cooling setup would help increase the efficiency? I'd like to reduce the temps of the box at least down to 80F or so, 88 is too high.
I see that to convert watts to BTU, you multiply by 3.4125, but i'm guessing that isn't for a peltier system, but a refrigerant system? do they make extremely small 1000-2000 btu refrigerant systems that don't take up a huge amount of space and weigh like 50lbs?
Referring to the heating and cooling of peltier unit; I would find it greatly interesting to use the unit to cool CPU's in a computer instead of using a fan with a heat sink; highly inefficient. I would also love to see an overclocked computer put in liquid nitrogen....that would be cool!