How to Terminate A Standing Food Plot Crop: Crimping Explained
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- Опубликовано: 29 май 2021
- Hunters putting in food plots across the nation are sending us questions about how to terminate an existing crop so they can put in their next food plot crop. In this video Dr. Grant Woods explains on why it's important to terminate or remove the old food plot crop before putting in the new food plot. The two most common methods to terminating a crop are sprayer with herbicides and crimpers. Crimping is not the same as mowing! A crimper is a more natural alternative to herbicides and helps to build soil faster. Dr. Woods also explains why a roller is not a substitute for a crimper. Watch for these and more tips on how to grow the best food plots!
#deerhunting #foodplots #teamoutdoors 
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Love the alternative to herbicide. I'm really hesitate to use herbicides anymore.
Herbicides are a tool to correct past mismanagement like a root canal, etc. Herbicides are usually much better for the soil than tillage, but hopefully folks will adopt our system and their needs for herbicide decrease.
@@GrowingDeerTV very good point. I needed to hear that. Thank you!!
I love this gentleman’s channel👊🏽 always excellent advice on here!👍🏽
Thanks Jeff!
Sure enjoy your videos as well as your outlook on life
Thanks!
This answered a lot of questions I asked from the other video. Thanks for sharing this information.
Glad it was helpful!
Good to see you out Mr Woods
Carl - Thanks but I don't understand. We produce a new show weekly, year round. I've been busy!
Thanks for putting this info out there!
Glad you liked it!
“Being Quite!” People nowadays can’t tolerate silence.
Ha - there's some truth to that!
great advice and info
Thanks!
I love his closing statement!
Thanks Brandon!
Great job, I thank you
Thanks for watching!
A very beautiful machine
It sure is!
That's some cool stuff . 😎
Thanks!
@@GrowingDeerTV I learned something completely new
2 questions....
1- if you are not able to make a food plot, are man made feeders ok to use instead?
2- I am a Commercial Custom Appicator at out local Farmers Cooperative. I drive a 120 wide liquid sprayer. We ran into the same problem you talked about. A lot of the weeds have grown resistant to Round up. We work closely with several of the manufacturers of the chemicals. About 3 years ago, Round up came up with a new product called Round up Max. It is really lethal to anything it touches. I dont know if you knew about this or not. But wanted to suggest to everyone, DO NOT USE THIS. It says on the label it is deadly to pets and other animals. We had to let people know we were spraying it close to their homes, and they had to keep their pets away from the fields for 24 hours after we sprayed. It's some nasty stuff. So, I would not suggest people use this on their food plots.
Mr. Phillips - I don't use any feed or feeders - no need if there's quality habitat.
Hello Mr. Woods, new subscriber watching your last video on crimping. I built a rolling crimper last winter and just used it today. I broadcast buckwheat into my 5-6 foot standing rye planted last labor day. Crimper worked great, but have you had problems with 1 turkeys and wildlife nesting in the crop being terminated and 2 having too thick of thatch that the newly planted crop cant push through?
Randy - Wow - you are talented! There's great native vegetation at my place so turkeys tend to nest in the larger patches of native grasses. Seeds do need good contact with the soil or they will germinate but without root in the soil they will soon perish. A no till cuts through the duff so seed make good contact with the soil - or terminate the standing vegetation with a herbicide and then used prescribed fire to prepare a seedbed.
Ours gets delivered on 3 weeks! Let's get crimping!!
Have fun!
Cultipackers will work depending on the shape of the packing wheels, but it requires 2 passes. One to flatten the crop and another at 90 degrees off the first pass to break all the stems. This only works with cultipackers with packing wheels that come to a point and are more blade shaped.
Matthew - Cultipackers are designed to firm bare soil and help seed contact the bare soil. They were never designed to terminate crops. They can work for that mission if the crop to be terminated is producing seed that's all but mature - the very last portion of the dough stage.
@GrowingDeer.tv A crescent wrench is not a hammer but it serves the purpose in a bind...lol. I understand why you can't specifically admit that some cultipackers work because of your sponsorship, but I have no ties to them. Blade shaped packing wheels like on the cultipacker I have do, and have terminated standing crops for me by breaking the vascular system in the plant. Yes, you need to make 2 passes perpendicular each other, but it's better than buying a crimper to use once per year. I will concede by saying you are correct as 90 percent of the cultipackers made today will not do this task, but a few, like mine, do it well. Not everyone that watches this channel is a newbie and some of us have farming background and have ran equipment over thousands of acres. Thanks.
What's the difference between crimping and using a sickle bar mower?
Brett - crimping crushes the plants circulator system several times. Most grasses and some weeds simply grow back from being mowed - just like in a yard or hay field. It addition, mowing doesn't leave an even mulch layer like crimping - hence not as good of weed suppression for the next crop.
Would tend to believe most ppl doing Food Plots cannot afford crimper nor do enough acres to justify.
Dave - I agree but it's nice to explain the process! I use a foot crimper in smaller plots. Same principle, different sized tool.
You sold us on the no till method. My brother and I bought a 8 ft. Crimper today. Cant afford a drill though. Can we broadcast summer release or buckwheat first and then crimp before a rain and still get reasonable germination. Thank you!
Doug - Seed can be broadcast and then the standing crop terminated with a crimper. Remember to wait to crimp until the majority of the standing crop is producing seed in the dough stage. The most common mistake I see if folks crimping too early!
Hi Grant and team. I love your show. I have a very small food plot in my DC suburbs 5 acre property. Currently last falls winter rye and clover. I am looking to have a clover and chicory mix this fall/winter. How would you suggest I use the current rye as a mulch bed for a new application of white clover and chicory?
Preston - I've assisted landowners near DC. Lots of deer in some of those areas!! The cereal rye will mature and have viable seed before it's time to plant during the late summer. I recommend you terminate the rye by crimping (us a 2" x 6" with some angle iron on one side and a rope - great workout for elk hunting) or use a herbicide. I'd broadcast Buckwheat or a warm season species to keep the weeds at bay and have a living root in the soil and then broadcast then broadcast the fall crop about 45-60 days before the average date of the 1st frost in your area.
@@GrowingDeerTV thank you so much! Appreciate the feedback and keep the good stuff coming. Best of luck this upcoming season!
Hi Grant - Thanks for all the great content you put out! I have a couple of questions about this process that I hope you can help me with. I recently purchased a Genesis and plan to use the no-till method for all of my plantings this year. For planting into my plots from last fall that have cereal grains, would you drill in the summer release blend and then terminate with a sprayer (within a few days after the spring planting) or terminate first and then drill? I also have a flail mower that I could use to terminate after drilling (I know you said this might not be the most desirable option) if you think that would be better than spraying with herbicide? Unfortunately, a goliath crimper isn't in the budget this year, maybe next :) Thanks in advance for the advice!
The new crop can certainly be drilled into the standing crop! This is called planting green and it's a great technique. The standing or mature crop can be sprayed after the new crop is planted and before it germinates. I don't like mowing the standing crop as most mowers leave clumps and bare spots. The clumps may choke out the new crop and the bare spots offer no protection against weeds.
Thanks so much for your response! One other question if I can, when drilling in the fall release blend, do you terminate the summer release plot in any way or just drill the fall release in 45-60 days before the first frost and go with that?
Will this work on a multispecies fall plot or more for a mono stand of winter rye?
Brandon - this was a multispecies - cereal rye, wheat, oats, brassicas, buckwheat, winter peas, etc.
Hey Grant. I would be interested how you use those same no till techniques in your own garden. I know you have mentioned it before, but not a full video. God bless.
Jonathan, - the same! I drill the MILPA garden mix from GreenCoverFoodPlots.com and then crimp, wait, pick, eat!
@@GrowingDeerTV wow, that's different. I may have to try that when I get a few acres one day.
How long after planting your Summer Release blend with a genesis drill can you wait before crimping the fall crop? Can you plant in early May, and wait a few weeks for the dough stage then crimp? Will that kill the newly planted spring crop?
Mitch - I always plant when the soil temp is at least 60 degrees at 9 am at 2" deep. There are several websites that will show the soil temp by zip code. Be sure there is ample soil moisture! If the soil temp is as stated above, you should be able to crimp soon after planting and can crimp anytime between just after planting and before the new crop is 4" tall. Be sure you don't crimp before the seeds are in the dough stage.
Just stumbled upon this concept, seems like a great idea. I have ask though... why not brush hog? Or brush hog vs crimp roller?
Mowing rarely kills many species of weeds - just like in yards. Mowing also tends to leave thick clumps or no vegetation where crimping leaves a more even layer of mulch.
@@GrowingDeerTV thank you
Ok, so I want to establish a food plot where there's currently weeds and grasses. I want to plant soybeans. Do I crimp the weeds and grasses and then plant the soybeans? If so, how long after I crimp do I plant the soybeans? Thanks for your time.
Crimping works when plants are in the dough stage - producing seeds that are almost mature but still have a lot of moisture. Crimping won't terminate most perennial grasses. If planting Roundup Ready beans, using a herbicide may be necessary because the beans will not have enough canopy to suppress weeds.
I just figure it would be cheaper to use a regular yard roller and roll everything and then hit it with the herbicide the same day it's essentially doing the same job
Western - rolling covers the lower vegetation and therefore herbicide doesn't reach it. This results in a partial kill.
Dr. Woods, do you have any experience with using a flail mower to terminate a standing crop, specifically winter rye? Does the rye just wrap up in the spindle of the flail mower, so it's a huge headache?
Jason - if the cereal rye seeds are almost mature, but not viable yet, mowing will terminate most of the crop. However, it doesn't leave an even mulch layer like a crimper does and therefore isn't as good about suppressing weeds, etc.
@@GrowingDeerTV - Even the flail mower won't leave an even mulch layer? I don't have one, but from what I've seen they leave a much more even layer than a rotary mower, for example.
so then when do you plant after crimping? Do you plant by drilling? Thank you!
It's very important to plant before crimping! It's difficult for any drill to cut through all the mulch created by crimping. I do plant with a no-till drill.
What is the camo/apparel that is the warmest for y’all?
Tanner - we all wear layers and then wear THLETE.com check them out!
I love your all of your advice but this one has always made me question it all. Having to buy a VERY expensive crimper and then have to try and determine when the dough stage is happening. I’d love to be all in but this one is tough to overcome...
The crumpet cost peanuts compared to the no till drill. Hunting ain’t for po folks.
Just food for thought daron you don’t need expensive equipment to get same results u just have to think outside the box a bit and for now put in some sweat equity I have 5 acres and teamed up with neighbor and called around my area to see who can rent or borrow a drill, tractor or a high impact roller just to get goin remember the key is to just get goin I used a over shoulder broadcaster for years just to get started don’t stress ..
Daran and Luke - did you boys watch the ep after this about establishing food plots with hand tools??
@@GrowingDeerTV no I didn’t. I use a lot of expensive equipment (John Deere 5090r, firminator, cultipacker, and other equipment. I also realize I’d like to end all my spraying. But I’m just not there yet on an additional $5000 system. Maybe my next step will be to buy a drill and just terminate via spraying.
Is there any where in Kentucky to pick up green cover seed shipping is really expensive to Indiana.
Raymond - Not that I'm aware - at least this year.
What about cultipacking it one direction then coming back a crossed it from the side?
C. Conner - Cutipacking smashes - it' doesn't crimp. This is similar to driving in a yard - it smashes the grass down but it stands back up in a few days.
After crimping should I spray with herbicide
Western - if the crimping is performed correctly, no herbicide is needed.
How long are the seeds in the dough stage for cereal rye and wheat before they fall and germinate and does this take place around Memorial day for upstate NY? One-two weeks? Thanks!
Sean - Most small grain (wheat, rye, and oats) seeds are in the dough stage for around three weeks - from early dough to the later stages. I prefer to crimp during the later stages to insure 100% termination and to allow the standing crop to produce as much biomass, both above and below ground, to suppress weeds and provide quality nutrients for the next crop.
Sean - Most small grain (wheat, rye, and oats) seeds are in the dough stage for around three weeks - from early dough to the later stages. I prefer to crimp during the later stages to insure 100% termination and to allow the standing crop to produce as much biomass, both above and below ground, to suppress weeds and provide quality nutrients for the next crop.
When you first start to go no till, would you spray or would you work the ground up to kill the weeds and grasses, thank you
Wayne - that depends on what type of weeds are there. In general herbicides are less damaging to soil than tillage.
Tillage is sometimes needed to repair a field if there’s ruts, holes, excessive tire tracks from previous wet seasons etc., but if you can avoid it, using a crimper and no till planter eliminates all those tillage steps.
You can kill a tall grass using herbicides, but if you are going to plant, let's say, soybean, it's important to down it to the ground, either by cutting or crimping
Otherwise the soybean will elongate in search for sunlight and decrease the yield
Seems the same goes to corn
A very beautiful machine
👍
Thanks!
Mr. Woods, All my plots are under a quarter acre. Could I use my tractor with tire chains to achieve the same results?
Deer Time - I don't believe dragging chains will work. I use a "foot crimper for some of my smaller plots". RTPOutdoors.com did have them in stock. Basically they are a 2" x 6" about 4' long with angle iron on both sides and a rope that's a loop. To use simply put all your weight on the crimper and then pick up and move forward about 8". This require some energy, but work great!
Mr. Woods, Sorry but I guess I didn’t explain enough. I live in lake effect snow belt in south western New York. I have tire chains on my 35 horse compact tractor. It’s the only way I’m getting up and down my driveway to move snow. With the chains being on the tires and the weight of the tractor, would that crimp the crops enough? Currently I spray roundup, wait till everything terminates,spread the seeds then brush hog the plots. This process is successful for me but I would like to stop spraying round up. I have watched your videos for years and just recently subscribed. Thank you for all you do to help others, Shane
Newbie here: What about new property that has not been developed for crops where you have a lot of weeds and other undesired plants. Isn’t it true if you crimp the weeds, they will simply release seeds into soil and you have same issue next season or how to you solve this problem?
Terry - Crimping is to be timed when the seeds are in the dough stage - you can squeeze water from them. Crimping won't terminate plants that aren't in the dough stage. This is like driving over grass in a yard - most of it stands back up in a few days because it's not in the seed production dough stage.
Weed seeds are everywhere - but if they are covered with mulch they will starve before they reach the sun and make leaves. Most weed seeds are much smaller than crops seeds.
Why would cutting the stem through mowing cause regrowth but crimping the stem doesn't? I understand the issue with clumping from a mower but am trying to understand the difference in termination effectiveness.
Cody - Crimping weakens the plant and it dies - cutting stimulates the plant to regrow - like mowing yards. Mowing doesn't control weeds or grass in yards. Crimping only is effective when plants are producing seed and are weak by that process. Crimping a mowed yard wouldn't kill the grass.
I have a full blooded crimper and have not utilized it much. Seems like complications arise too often in the field or with the weather or with best made plans. I just found this site and want to thank you all for the many great questions and likewise, the great answers. I honestly think the crimper should function well with REGENERATION principles.
Hi Grant. Very interesting piece of equipment. Is it a good assumption that the crimper will kill weeds as effectively as crop? Also, you said that a cultipacker probably cannot do what a crimper can do. Can a crimper do what a cultipacker can do? I hope I don't have to buy both.
John - Crimpers can be used to terminate annual species that are making seed in the dough stage. That's there mission. Cultipackers are designed to created a firm seedbed from bare soil and help seeds make good contact with the soil. These implements are very mission specific.
@@GrowingDeerTV Thanks for the reply. My question arose because another deer expert uses hand sowing in standing crop/weeds and then a cultipacker to knock down the standing plants. Seems, to me, like the crimper would be a better implement to do so?
@@johnstobbscpa8081 John, the Jeff Sturgis method of hand seeding buckwheat in a standing monoculture of Winter Rye, then using a cultipacker on the Rye, then spraying the packed down Rye, is what you are referring to, and it is what I have been doing. It works, but I think I can speed up building my soil quality by changing to a multiculture this fall and still use a cultipacker and sprayer to terminate the buckwheat and go back in with the multiculture. (Rye and annual clovers)
Hello sir I need dimension of this roller crimper can you please help me about this
Thanks lot
Rickly - the crimper is 8' wide. I got it from RTP Outdoors.
@@GrowingDeerTV i am from India sir and there is no ready made one if I get dimension I have to get make it sir that's why I need dimensions
You must not have field mice. Tried this once and the mouse population escalated to about 1 per square foot across the field. They ate all the corn seed as soon as it germinated.
Joe - Mice like such cover but our no till buries the seed. We've been doing this for years and have never had an issue.
What about a sickle bar mower?
Austin - Does mowing control weeds in yards? Of course it doesn't and the same is true in food plots. Grasses are not terminated by mowing .
@@GrowingDeerTV sorry I meant to lay down the grass that’s there to protect soil from the heat?
that roller company must be paying for all these ads, a sickle bar mower beats that roller a thousand times over
HMM. Does mowing a yard or hayfield terminate the crop?? That's why a crimper and mower aren't the same.
Why are there tractor tracks in the field you are roll crimping? The crop doesn’t look like it grew well in the tire tracks.
I think he already ran a drill over it planted before he crimped.
Luke - the crop grew the same everywhere - but we drilling into the standing crop, called planting green, them crimped.
Does the crimper also kill the clover?
It’s only going to “kill” annuals, which clover is not.
Draco - Not unless it's an annual and is making seed in the dough stage - the seeds are full of liquid that's easy to see when the seed is squeezed.
can you crip a corn food plot?
Rusty - I sure you could but not sure if that's the best plan for corn unless you were knocking the stocks and ears down.
Who makes a crimper I can pull with a sub compact tractor?
www.rtpoutdoors.com/goliath-crimper-roller they have them. Scroll down and you can see the Goliath 6, 8, or 10. You would probably use the 6.
Rtp makes it it is around 4,00 I believe slightly over and you should be able to look up recommendations of hp and lift arm capacity to determine if your tractor is big enough
Zac is correct - RTPOutdoors.com!
After further research a 30hp compact will handle a 6ft crimper
@@zachall3704 unfortunately my tractor is under 30 hp. 24 hp I believe.
Purchased my crimper today.
Mike - Congratulations!
if i only had $15k for a crimper and a no till drill
Mr Grant....im 46. Am I to old to become a intern on the proving grounds? Lol
Mr. Philips - Never too old!!
Hello
Howdy!
Why does nature produce that much seed if it’s not the right amount per square foot? I thought earth had the numbers figured it.
There's a huge difference between native plants and those we plant. Plants like beans, wheat, corn, etc., have been selected and breed for centuries to produce way more grain (seeds) they their wild cousins. There are massive wild swings in natural environments. Man works to smooth out those swings . Consider dams that reduce flooding, fire suppression, etc., etc.
Chopper
Close! I chopper is usually used for brush control or to site prep for planting pines. Crimpers aren't designed to chop, but rather crush herbaceous stems so they can't transfer nutrients.
@@GrowingDeerTV 100% we do a lot of pine trees planting down here in South GA.
People yust cut the grass
Marek - Does cutting the grass in a yard terminate it? Mowing doesn't produce the same results as crimping. It doesn't terminate many species, leaves clumps rather than an even layer of mulch, etc.