Siemens 100-Amp 20-Space Main Breaker Load Center: amzn.to/3T7holf Parts list: amzn.to/3N54QcC Electrical Tools List: amzn.to/3gCphBs The general contractor tools used in my installation are available here: amzn.to/3TyMaUR For more details about installing the sub-panel, what tools and materials were used, and frequently asked questions please visit this U Do It™ article: udoit.me/how-to-install-an-electric-sub-panel “As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.”
Hi! I have two hots coming in and a ground wire all of them I know where to put them. My question is where does the wire come from that I’m supposed to put on the neutral bar
This guy has got to be one of (If not THEE) the most fluent responders ever on RUclips to comments, FAQs, and even those who just want to have something NEGATIVE to say and then wanna "Like" their own comment, and he doesn't 'Fight fire with fire' in his responses with those who are just being flat-out rude ! I see why the electrician field has the HIGHEST casualty rate of ALL trade occupations in terms of employment for either freelance or career....TOO MANY EINSTEINS', And that's just on RUclips alone !!! I COMMEND YOU SIR...You have great control and patience when it comes to dealing with these 'Procrastinators'!!! C'MON GUYS....I think that we all can agree....Its not WHAT you say, but HOW you say it ! Most of the comments have been favorable though.
I had to replace an outdated breaker box in a mobile home. Gabe gave the best advise, most reasonable price and hung in there through the convoluted process of getting a permit from the state. I really appreciated that he kept me informed along the way and was consistently upbeat and helpful. And the job was done well. A+
Why in god's name did you go to the state for a permit? As long as you do it right why get the government telling you what you can do with your property?
Thanks for your effort in making this video. I've worked with many electricians on jobs and they were always the worst snobs, know-it-alls, and rude people. Looks like you've had several of them comment. I think you did a fine job, and again, thanks for your effort.
You are so right about them being snobby and rude. Think they're the smartest guy in the room, but they never take a moment to see if there are anyone actually smarter, which makes them look foolish. Electricity isn't that hard. Hardest part is knowing the code. I can program computers in 13 languages. Writing code (that works) in Assembly is hard. Electricity isn't.
thank you much for this video as im forced to add a second box to my house to handle my medical cannabis grow for the horrible case of crohn's. I'm disabled and only collect SSDI. with that said i can never afford a electrician. however i used to run my own home repair buss. i did everything except to high work. so my electric skills are a bit rusty. your video helps clear my head for what i need to do thanks again for your very detailed video
@@UDoIt2 not all that many.. The biggest thing is a light controller that can run 4 1000 watt HID ligts. I have a 600 w at the wall and a wall unit 5000but AC and Dehumidifier.. I want to run a 60 watt sub off my 100 watt main.. I have bunch of 4 gauge wire and some 10 for that light controller i will take a few 20s out of my existing box for original and bigger grow.. The fans i use are max 75 watt. Most 35 to 50w not sure all the amps.. Figure 2 20amp and the 2 from main and might add 1 20 to garage.. My portable compressor throws breaker if any thing is on and a lot of house is on that 15 amp 1... A question about flickering leds all ot them in bath and hall.. That sounds like breaker to me, or do you think both dimmer went out same time and then works fine at other times? They cut so many Corners when they built my house in 1980. it was my grandparents so I didn't know what was going on when they built it because I was a kid but insano house wrap tar paper on the side of the house to foot centers on the joist on the roof with OSB it looks like the ocean I'm in Cape Cod no bolts through the sill plate on a house so they're hurricane to just blow the house away.. Thanks for info
A few things I would have done differently. Correct me if I am wrong in any of this. 1. I would have used copper and not aluminum. You have to use anti-oxidant (which you correctly pointed out) on the lugs, but I have read that you are not supposed to use antioxidant on the side with breakers. There are various opinions about whether this is acceptable or not and possibly different compounds that could be or should be used. I would just rather avoid it all together and use copper wire. 2. Install the sub panel "upside down" and you could run a shorter run of wire from the main to the sub panel at the bottom. The panels can be installed either way up. Then run conduit between the two panels to protect the wire - required by code in some areas. Thanks for the video
Yea for sure....copper is definitely better. The inspector checked the antiox on every termination point of the aluminum I like the idea of the upsidedown install. If I get my way all this is coming out and a 200 Amp service with a bigazz panel with lots of gutter space will be installed. Thank you so much for the comments.
@@UDoIt2 I know SqD says not to use it on their QO style breakers in which case the inspector can not make you use it. The NEC does not require thats because it is not true aluminum but an alloy.
Thanks for this. I've spent the last while rewiring two garages that had double-tapped fuse boxes. All new wires are run and I'll be installing a sub panel tomorrow morning. I was confident I knew what I was doing (including removing the bonding screw) but your video confirmed I was on track. It's not that complicated. If the internet has taught us anything, it's that only rocket science is actually rocket science. That said, my son is an electrician and I have sent him photos of everything I'm doing, just to be safe.
If I was to put that 2/0 wire in plastic conduit would I need to remove all the insulation ? Also if I used copper wire what size would have been acceptable in your video ? I would be running a 100 amp sub from a 200 amp main panel.
Thank you noticing that! And thank you for watching and commenting! The main panel was very crowded, especially after I swapped out 10 standard breakers for AFCI/GFCI breakers. It was a pain to clean up. My cousin does a lot of electrical work (he is a home builder). He said I have about 8 inches too much of the 2-0 wire. So I'll eventually shorten that. I'll have the sub panel inspected in a couple of months. The sub panel was added specially for my youtube workshop (garage) so I can get back to making 'maker' videos. The garage only had two outlets that were shared with the kitchen and my home office. I could see tripping the breakers everytime my compressor kicks in. The addition of the sub-panel allowed me to install a 30Amp breaker for a a heater (installed and video is up on that one), lighting, dedicated breaker for garage door openers and two breakers for outlets for all of my equipment. The panel also allowed me to run a dedicated circuit for NEST smoke detectors throughout the house (would you believe that there is no requirement for wired smoke detectors since the house was built in 1972 but if it were a new house you would need to install wired smoke detectors) and two circuits for my sons music studio (in progress - timelapse videos are up on that as well). May you have a happy new year in 2017! Thank you for visiting!
My future project is to add a panel to the meter box outside to accommodate a pool. Because of my backyard lay out it would be so much easier to run the pool circuit from a panel at the meter instead of the main panel inside the house. The outdoor panel would not only serve a pool, but other things like a shed/mancave, and outdoor lighting. My question is, of the two panels which one should become my sub panel?
You'll definitely want to consult a licensed electrician for this project. There's a lot to deal with including properly grounding the pool. It can all be done in one contract. If you want to do the work yourself I suggest you pay a licensed electrician for consultation. Either way the plans will need to be reviewed and approved by your construction office. Although this isn't a full proof way to guarantee safety it is at least a form of oversight.
Most definitely consult an electrician. There are many special conditions to be met specifically for pools. You absolutely do not want to be electrocuted in your pool.
Nice video. What I find interesting is that in my township they do not allow SER between the main and sub panels. I just added a 100 amp sub and my initial plan was shot down because I had listed SER. In my township they require an insulated ground between the main and sub. They had me switch to THHN conductors which required 1-1/4" conduit. This creates a domino effect because 1-1/4" PVC conduit breaks the 40 60 rule for studs. So then you have to sister the studs. Made what should have been a straight forward job kind of a headache.
When you read NFPA NEC it is abiguous. It was approved in my township but also depends on the inspector's state of mind (did the inspector have a fight with their kids, got in an accident, ordered at mcdonalds and the drive thru forgot their milkshake and now has a vendetta to screw everyone for the rest of the day). So many headaches are often caused by a pissy inspector.
I'm an anti-oxidant newbie. I'm using noalox, which is non-conductive. I thought I'd install the wires so they have full metal-on-metal contact and then put the anti-oxidant around the connection so no humid air can get to the dissimilar metals. I kinda had to make a small mess to ensure it was sealed all the way around - because I can't see if the noalox is applied under the screw. Is that why you put the anti-oxidant on first? Am I doing it wrong? Thanks!
We recently purchased a fixer upper (built in 1905) and I need to add two subpanels. I want to do as much work as I can before paying a professional to replace the main service panel. Now for the question. It seems copper SER wire is recommended over aluminum SER for safety concerns. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to produce this video.
Aluminum is fine with antiox but go with electricians recommendations and use copper. Go one size bigger than what is recommended on the wire as well. Keep neutrals and grounds separate due to objectionable currents (read about that and I suggewt you rwad the NEC ).
Please explain - will you have 2 input supply lines, a) grid, and b) solar running at the same time? is that possible? I can't find anyone to explain how. The reason I ask is, my solar system is smaller than my needs sometimes, cloudy, big load, whatever. and I want it to assist the grid, not be one or the other. A AND B, no A or B supply.
Hello GJSX, A Solar Powered System can be installed in such a way as to feed the grid (known as a grid-tied system) but also help to alleviate some of your usage. As you said your consumption is lower at times. Depending upon your city/town electrical code and agreements with utilities Solar Powered Systems are often installed together with a meter upgrade that allows tracking of feeding the grid. There is also a safety interlock installed which will disengage solar panel supply completely in the event of loss of electrical supply. On days where your consumption is lower than what your Solar Panels produce the meter would accumulate the total power fed to the grid. This is why the new meters are called Net Meters as they compute net consumption / generation. On days where your consumption is higher than your Solar Panels power production your meter will accumulate a loss. Ideally, the system is sized correctly so that your consumption is lower than your generation. Some extra information beyond your question: There is a huge push for Solar Power Generation but this comes at a risk for the grid infrastructure that is way behind in upgrades. As more homes add Solar Power generation the grid is being filled with higher power. This puts an extra burden on the local transformers, sub-stations and beyond. Until the infrastructure is upgraded in anticipation of these larger power requirements the utility companies will be playing whack-a-mole throughout the grid. We see this playing out in California and Texas right now. It may be happening in other states but I do not recall. I think some states see this problem and are limiting new solar customers. Since you have solar, you are the few who can enjoy a lesser utility bill. Details about the Solar Panes: The solar panels will generate an average amount of power based on your location and the angle of the system to the sun's optimal angle. These panels are connected to an inverter (if grid tied) that works in conjunction with your power meter and your home. The power is AC power, which means alternating current. The electrons are literally moving back and forth at a rate of 60 times per second in the USA or 60Hertz (60Hz). The power you consume in your home comes 100% from the Utility at night. However, during the day, your Solar Panels generate power as DC current (electrons flow in one direction). This flows through the inverter and the inverter converts the DC (direct current electrons flowing in one direction) to AC (alternating current electrons bouncing back and forth). To complicate this more, the inverter must time the bouncing of the electrons back and forth at exactly the same time much like two guitarists strumming together to amplify the signal. If one is slightly out of phase it will cause problems with the power and either distort it or cancel it. The inverter does a great job of ensuring that the Alternating Current that it generates is in sync with that of the Utility. Not only does it need to be exactly 60Hz but it needs to be in phase with the Utility's 60Hz power. There are also systems that you can create which is off-grid systems. This is a system that generates solar power to power something only during sunlight. And I'm sure you have or know someone who has a little battery powered light with a solar panel on it. This is an off-grid solar powered unit with a battery. The expectation is that the battery will supply the required power throughout the night based on the worst case power generation day. The same can be done for a home where you have a battery backup off-grid system where you can have steady power throughout the day and night. This same battery backup system can be installed on a grid-tied system but then extra safety features are required to disconnect the Utility power from the home power in the event the Utility power is interrupted (fallen tree, car accident, blown transform). Please look up Veritassium's video on "The Big Misconception About Electricity". It's more than the wires and the electrons- it's about the electromagnetic field around the loop that transmits the power. This is a lot to chew on but I hope it helps some.
Can you tell me why you bent the 2 mains and neutral wire rather than making them the correct length with no bends? is there a reason? Great video. Thanks.
This was a temporary installation. You can see in this video ruclips.net/video/WyjY5UCk1mU/видео.html I moved things around after I studded the wall out (with the intention of drywalling - btw it is still not drywalled [how many years later?]).
Any main panel will support a Sub Panel. Are you increasing the demand or merely segmenting your existing circuits? To ask the question differently we'll first talk about the load calculations. Load calculations are a method used to determine what size your panel needs to be based on your home's area, number/size of HVAC units, number of bathrooms, number of laundry rooms, number of kitchens and the fixed appliances within the kitchens, number of lights in each room, etc. All of that is added together and you add in a safety margin and your panel size is determined, i.e. let's say a 150Amp panel is sufficient. If you add up all of the amperage of each breaker it exceeds the total amps of the panels. So how does this work? You typically do not have everything running at exactly the same time at max capacity. For instance, you have 15Amp breaker for lights but maybe only 6 100Watt bulbs are on so that is about 6 Amps of current - not the 15 that it is rated for. So why put in a panel? You will not overload your panel if you are doing this purely for segmenting, e.g. splitting the existing lights across multiple breakers or splitting existing outlets across multiple breakers or even adding additional outlets to your garage or to other rooms. But let's say you add an addition. If you add an addition chances are you will exceed your panel's capacity, especially if it is a large addition. The addition will require an HVAC unit or multiple multi-split units, outlets following the 6/12 rule, lighting, appliances possibly, a bar with additional requirements, perhaps a sump pump...this can push you over the edge. So then you may need to upgrade your service / panel to the next stage. Maybe you want to add a garage with a lift and run a welder, a compressor, a plasma table, a CNC possibly all at the same time. You'll need to upgrade your service. A licensed electrician can help you determine this as well. Your construction office may have some guidelines but it will typically be from the NEC version that they have normalized to - btw you can read the NEC for free just be creating an account on the NFPA org website. I strongly suggest that you read the section on load calculation to have an understanding of this and how many outlets (and dedicated outlets) are required for each room, appliance, etc. I hope this helps Joe! -John
Wasnt that bad. I spend more on 3DPrinting filament and I stupidly waste way more $$$ on goin out to eat instead of grilling. All kidding aside you have a valid point.... I should have made it more direct.
Being a former(retired) maintenance electrician (system repairman) in a major U.S _ steel mill, the very first thing I learned, is to always leave yourself extra wire. Whether in a j-box, main panel, motors, and splices, always leave extra wire for burn off.
Thank you for this perspective. I try to live some also. But I see this exquisite work by OCD installers where the wire is bent at a perfect 90 and the wire length is exact. The trade off is exactly what you said - without extra wire making repairs is difficult.
Thanks for the video, hope I didn't miss this in your video..... when replacing a main panel, if the wires are too short, can a splice be added using wire nuts, where the wire nut connections would be contained in the main panel box?
yes you can splice within the panel deoending upon how much room in in your gutter area. There is a section in the NEC about splicing within a gutter area. I forget the section #.
Hey buddy, can you use 6/3 wire to go from the sub to a tankless water heater? Probably a stupid question, but I was taught the only stupid one, is that not asked 🤔😉
Hey there, It depends upon the model and if it is gas or electric. I'm assuming electric since you mention 6/3 wire. I recommend you consult with a licensed electrician, a licensed plumber and your code enforcement official. One electric heater I looked at required (3) 40 amp connections. 40Amp requires 8 gauge but sometimes I jump to the next gauge, so 6 would be sufficient. If the run is long (what is long? dunno, maybe 100 ft plus???), 6 may cover you but this is where an electrician can determine if that is correct.
This is usually an "easy" solution if you are mounting the sub-panel near your main panel - just remove two adjacent breakers and the associated wiring and move it over to the other panel to free up the two slots. I say easy because it is easy to picture but implementation might be a completely different story based on your wiring and available space. Hope that helps!
Thanks for the very informative video. I've been watching a bunch of videos about household electricity in general, many of them posted by electricians. There seems to be a very common theme with all of them, that is electricians rarely ever agree with each other! What's the deal with that? No matter how professional the job, another electrician always chimes in and says it should have been done differently. Could you guys possibly arrange a meeting with each other and sort out your differences instead of just saying every other electrician is wrong. Thank you.
Good to note about the AFCI tripping. I guess your toaster throws an arc as it's turned on or off? I'm wondering why so many people are up in arms about the extra wiring in the panel..don't you want that wiring for when you move a plug or light switch but finally run out of wire at the outlet? Don't you want the extra wire in the main panel as well in case you have to relocate a breaker or 8? I believe that what they say about filling up an electrical panel is a good guide line ON ORIGINAL INSTALLATION...the box was designed to run it's full complement of breakers and will have no issue running a full panel until the home actually uses enough power to open the main breaker...that'w when you want to upgrade to a higher amperage and larger service with more breaker slots. Another issue with a full panel is the increased difficulty in tracing wires and rerouting.
With the AFCI the microprocessor is looking for a specific set of spark signatures. The toaster, the microwave, the vacuum and definitely my woodworking equipment like my saw. YESSSS - extra wire for moving breakers!!!! I like the extra wire for that reason but doubling up on 3 wires eats a ton of space on panels with small gutter space. I really don't like this original panel because it is so tight.
If you have no spaces on your main panel then what do you do? I want to add a 100amp sub panel will I need to remove a breaker to make space and add the breaker I removed to the sub panel?
Yes, you would need to remove to adjacent breakers where you can install a double breaker. Then you can locate those breakers that you removed into the sub panel. Please consult a licensed electrician and consider reading the NEC book that is available to read electronically for free on the NFPA.org website.
Thank you so much for the video. I have a question. Is 200 amp better for us if we have central a/c, electric water heater and electric stove in 2000 sq ft. home? We have 100 amp now. the light dim in a blink a little when they come on. Will 200 amp solve that?
Thank you for taking the time to comment. My guess is that your 100amp service is possibly underrated for 2000 square foot or it is very close to exceeding 100Amp which would put you into the league of a 150Amp service but I wouldn't know that for sure without first performing the load calculations. You can perform your load calculations based on your current build out by following this spreadsheet: www.electrical-knowhow.com/2012/01/residential-load-calculation.html You will need to know the ampere rating of your stove/oven/washer/dryer/dishwasher/electric water heater/electric heat/btu of the HVAC and SEER level, number of outlets in every room, etc. to properly complete this. Sign up for a free account at NFPA.org and be sure to read through NEC NFPA 70 standard as well. There it tells you about the requirements as they stand now (but 99% of the time don't apply to older homes - for instance, my home was built in the 70's - there were no requirements for GFIs in the bathrooms and the house could be sold like that. I had to go through and install GFI breakers on every breaker with outlets [I feel safer that way]. But, if you retrofitted a bathroom, they would require you to apply the latest code under certain conditions. And I think in some places if you are upgrading more than 1/4 of a room then you would have to apply the new standard that is currently adopted by your town/city/county/state which is usually NOT the latest but rather a couple of revisions [years] old. An older home with a kitchen may only have one 15Amp circuit but the new code requires two 20 Amp circuits with specific spacing requirements on the outlets. Depending upon if you meet this rework threshold you may have to run new lines to the kitchen which could add more $$$ to your estimate if you are not doing the work yourself and especially if you do not have room in your panel. I'm have this problem now in my kitchen - one set of outlets are 15Amp and one is 20Amp. If I run my microwave on the 15Amp I should not turn on the toaster unless I want to test the breaker out [been there did that 5 times already]. So I had to move the toaster to the 20Amp circuit and now they can run together.). You can perform a test based by shutting off all breakers but the central ac and one breaker for lights. This will isolate everything. Turn your lights on, watch them and and then kick on the HVAC. If it dims that means that there is a large power startup current is being consumed to get the compressor running. If the flickering persists for a longer duration after the compressor motor starts then you may have another electrical wiring issue and that should be looked at because there could be a fire hazard with a loose wire. Don't forget to the turn the breakers back on. Please note that you will NEVER get rid of the huge power draw but you could minimize it by upgrading to higher amp service. You can also minimize it by upgrading the wiring that supplies the panel with a heavier gauge wire. But those solutions are expensive for a problem that plagues every household with a HVAC. If you have sensitive electronic equipment I would get a UPS with power conditioners for those so that they are able to switch over quickly to good power during these occurrences. If you do not have sensitive electronics then don't worry about it. I consider sensitive electronics whole house automation >$2k, home theater equipment > $5k and computer equipment > $5k. If HVAC compressors only have VFDs for driving the motor things would be so much better! They could use motors that are half the power rating.
U Do It this is the way you get on the 6 o'clock news .will a 100 amp breaker pull a 150 amp breaker box that's not grounded correct? Hope I'm wrong. Thanks for video
Probably a straight pipe between panels and just wire through it to each connection point.....especially 02 Why the wire jumper in your new panel between the hots?
yea that would have been easier! When I installed it ... it was temporary. That wall has been removed and I put studs up. The extra let me move the panel easily.
Is the total sum of amperage of the breakers in the main box greater than the rating of the boxes total output? It's ok to have 300 amp worth of breakers in a 200 amp box? Obviously you're going to have a main breaker rated for that box size
+Patrick Pikulski Yes but when you spec a load center you need to perform load calculations that have built in buffers for future expansion. Then sum of all that will allow you to determine what rating load center you need. If I wasn't stretching myself too thin I would have rather swapped out my main for a 200Amp service/load center because of my workshop. See this video and jump ahead to the panel overloading section. ruclips.net/video/WifIi5PNPck/видео.html. It is possible to overload a panel but you would need everything turned on. I installed a 5000W garage heater in another video. It required a 30Amp breaker but will typically draw about 20Amps. So just because the breaker is rated at that doesnt mean that is what the loads will. I had incadesent lights throughout the house but then I switched to LEDs. We went from 60W and 100W bulbs down to 8W and 14W bulbs. So the Amps originially speced for rooms are now less thanks to advances in lighting technology. The video link here should talk about the NEC also. If not you can sign up to access the NFPA70 National Electric Code for free at NFPA.org. I also have a running comments/suggestions in a comment in this panel video. Thank you for the comment and thank you for watching.
Yes. Having more circuit breakers allows you to isolate that wiring from the rest of the panel and use smaller wiring safely. As most loads are intermittent, (as in you use the dryer once or twice a week). Also understand that the breaker rating is not for a continuous load! (The continuous load of a 200A breaker is only 160Amps.) If a circuit is on for more that 3 hours, it's considered continuous.
Great video. Why do the two phase red and black wires from the subpanel go to a single phase in the main panel and how are the loads in the subpanel balanced off that single phase in the main panel?
They don't, panels are designed with a zigzag pattern behind, so that a properly installed 240V breaker straddles one leg on each side. The two wires coming off the breaker are opposite phases, one red, one black.
Hello there Vince! There's a list of the materials I used in the description of the video. Let me know if you were able to find it. I believe it was 2-0 wire between the panels but please double check in the description.
Awesome If you do the permit yourself I have a video on how to file for a permit. Some places require copper all the way from main panel to sub panel. Your local construction enforcement office can help with that.
With those bends in the extra length, the wires have the flexibility to be removed and/or reinstalled easily, compared to short, straight sections of heavy wire.
Nice video but me working as a license electrician doing custom houses and havent to deal with inspection this would never pass just because your wires are really messy you gotta have them just right and not all over each other and all that extra wire going everywhere
Thank you for this comment! The main panel passed. I guess they didn't care about wiring neatness then. And not one inspector has pointed out neatness to me in all the years I have installed panels. I agree that it is an important aspect and should be considered/recommended during the inspection process. Thank you for taking the time to add your observation.
U Do It Oh im sorry didnt mean to disrespect im in arizona inspection is bad over here in the sense that they started putting new breakers that trip with the neutral hitting metal and Yeah neatness matters with those new breakers
No disrespect taken at all. I'm an engineer - we try to take input and be transparent and not defensive about it. Otherwise, there is a chance that something can blow up / burn down / break. Are you talking about AFCI/GFI combo breakers tripping or is this a different type of breaker? I replaced all breakers with AFCI/GFI combos and I had to put in GFI in a couple of spots (kitchen because of toaster tripping the AFCI fault detection and my garage because of my power tools).
Say, do you know whether you would have needed a conduit to protect that wire if it went straight up to the joists, and to a subpanel elsewhere? That’s my situation and I can’t find a reference. I see that your wire is protected by being between both boxes.
Follow the NEC code per your construction office (the year they are normalized to) recommendation and consider using conduit. I do prefer safer installs.
Hey there Thomas, provided there is enough room in the gutter then yes you can make connections in the main breaker box. It is best to consult the NEC and look through Mike Holt's forums on this topic as well!!!
If I am looking to install a sub panel in my basement and I have no slots left in my main box as the last two (same as the double slot you used) are already running a sub panel out in my garage... is it simply a matter of moving my garage 100 amp out, installing the sub box like you did, then just hooking my garage back up in the sub panel? Or should I move a different breaker set out to the sub panel? Seems like it would be a bit crowded with 3 big cable sets coming in and out of one box... thanks for the video!
It might be helpful to have a few photos of this first. You can follow me on insta or twitter and I will follow back and you can dm me. You will also want to read the NEC guidelines that are adopted by your town/city or consult an electrician. You can read the NEC for free from nfpa.org.
Appreciate you taking the time. I only have a few slots left now in this sub panel. WHAT HAPPENED??? Soon I will need to remove the main panel and this sub-panel and install a very large panel. I still have to install a new breaker for exterior outlets, a double-pole 50Amp for my welder and plasma cutter in the garage, another dedicated 20Amp for my compressor to support the plasma cutter and an air dryer for the compressor (I didn't even know that was a thing)! UGH!!! - John
Nice breakdown! One question: Could you run that wire 100’ from your main panel to a garage (and then into a sub panel)? Or would you have to install a sub panel in the basement and then run the wire to another panel in the garage?
you can run it to another location. Consult with a licensed electrician and talk to your construction office. It will require a main breaker in the panel to ahut off the power to the bars remitely. It really wasnt required in this install since it was right next to it. I suggest using copper for a long run.
@@UDoIt2 aluminum is fine too you just have to use the calculation drop but in the end copper might be cheaper than the conduit needed for the larger size of AL lol
Hey, i have a question about the size of the wire you are using - 2-0? Is that 2/0 awg or 2 awg compact stranded aluminum ? I am about to buy some cable 1/0 awg for my subpanel and i am a bit concern about fitting it into the main lugs...
It is 00 gauge wire (double zero) which is larger than 2awg. Base your cable selection on the required current and the minimum size required by NEC guidelines. You can read the NEC 70 for free from nfpa.org. Just sign up by creating a free account and you can browse through the NEC guidelines. The list of american wire gauge sizes in diameter can be found on this table if you are concerned about it fitting within the lug. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge The difference between 2-0 and 1-0 awg wire is about 0.04 inches in diameter. If you are using aluminum be sure to coat the ends with anti-oxidation compound. If you use copper wire, which is a bear to work with, you do not need anti-oxidant.
what size is 1/0 cable I'm planning on putting 125 amp in my out building for the purpose of storing stuff , lights, some rec., . its about 60' from the house. I have a 200 amp service. And what would u suggest. tks
Watched the video...only had a few questions...but overall..great video....excellent zoom in attributes......alot of videos fail to zoom in but your video was right on.....Please continue to make videos........Thanks...
I have a question please. Can you tell me the size of the connector you used? And if they are 1” or bigger you are supposed to put a plastic bushing. Thank you
not the size of connector size of wire # 4 or bigger you have to use a plastic bushing so you don't risk scarring into the wire. hence AC vibrates and higher amps = higher vibration. hope it helped
whats the deal with the bend on the ground wire? i do low voltage not electrical but i was taught around 20 years ago or so not to make sharp bends or 90° turns in ground wires because if a lightning strike went thru the ground it would shoot out the sharp bend. your ground is bent closer to 180° do i just have bad information or are your ground wires not installed properly?
Lightning doesn't like bends and will exit to the next spot it can jump to. That is correct. That definitely applies to the earth ground rod and the wiring from that ground rod. You want the smoothest path out of the ground and to the box so that lightning will take the path through earth and not be reflected back. The sharp bends are something you definitely concern yourself with antenna wires and other cables for communications in radio stuff. There may be other applications but I forget them all. It's been some time since I had power transmission classes (I have a BSEE). I think practically speaking, if my home gets hit with lightning or if lightning strikes nearby and causes a surge my shit will get fried no matter what. Hell my neighbor's equipment got fried at our old house just from a big ass lightning bolt that was over his house (I have a video of that lightning strike - it was wicked). I don't want to comment any more on the chances of such an event for fear of jinxing myself. I will consult with my colleagues (most of them are electrical engineers as well) and reply with their thoughts on this. I read through NFPA 70 and I remember lightning arrestors, ground wire installation and proper bonding to the ground rod. I also remember that cable / telephone lines need to be properly grounded but I don't remember anything about the bends in the sub panel being mentioned. NFPA 70 is like 800+ pages. I'll give it a look through again.
How do you know if your main panel is big enough to support the sub panel? I am making a woodworking shop in my garage and I need to install a sub panel in the garage off my house panel
what size service do u have now? And what are u going to run in your shop? Chances are u will be fine.....but if u say u will be welding and running a compressor and an 10kwatt elec heater at the same time....it could be tight
Hello Pirru, My main load center is 150Amp service. For more details about installing the sub-panel, what tools and materials were used, and frequently asked questions please visit this U Do It™️ article: udoit.me/how-to-install-an-electric-sub-panel Hope this helps and feel free to ask additional questions if you can't find the answer on my article. - John
Have to agree, could have rough measured se cable out side of main box to mark and cut outside of the panel. Then put it into the connector. Also would have pre cut shorter instead of stripping back six feet of casing.
Thank you! I do waste a lot of EVERYTHING I touch! I plan on redoing this entire thing when I rip it out and put in a HUGE 200+ Amp service with a crap ton of slots and loads of gutter room.
Hello Joey, The description has a lot of the details. I recommend that you consult a licensed electrician prior to doing anything and determine what gauge wire you need. It might also be better to not use SER cable as I did and instead use wire in conduit. Again, speak with an electrician and also your code enforcement officer. Hope this helps, John
Thank you for your question. Could you be more specific in your question? I will attempt to answer based on how I interpret your question. NFPA NEC 2011, which is what was used states that any NM cable passing through a drilled or punchout in must go through a bushing or gromment (that is listed, which I interpret as UL Listed) that must shield the cable from the sharp edges of the punchout. It goes onto say further that the NM insulation must also protrude through the bushing or grommet. The UL listed romex connectors that I used meet that requirement.
Very informative with excellent instructions. Loved this video and my ONE and only complaint is when you placed the 100 amp breaker in that was really tight with the remark “holy crap.” I know it may not be offensive to the majority of people but to some it is. Thanks again and keep up your great videos!
Yes but only in the main panel. For reference see 250.6 "Objectionable Currents" in the NEC guide. Mike Holt has a great explanation of this and why it is important to keep them separate on subpanels.
Good video... couple of questions tho 1. Where you buy the big grey cable? Item number by any chance for it? 2. Is that enough power to run a 50-60 amp breaker from main panel outside down about 100 ft to a subpanel in a tiny house? Please help lol
1. Here is copper part number from home depot: Model# 27083599 for $16/ft. If you want aluminum it is 2,2,2,4 Model# 13102999 and it was $1.69 a foot. As you can see in the video I used aluminum (make sure you get oxidizer). 2. You can add a sub panel of any size that you want as long as it is less than or the same as the feed to the main load center. Since you will be added a subpanel make sure it has a breaker like the one I bought. Be sure to read the NFPA70 NEC guidelines for free at NFPA.ORG. Just sign up for a free account and you can read the entire thing. Keep in mind the wire resistance plays a part with long runs. I would go with a beefier gauge wire than what is required. For instance, go with the 2,2,2,4 for the 60 Amp. There are also restrictions based on the how the cable is packed and if it is bundled along side other wires. In those cases you have to reduce its capability and increase the wire gauge. Going with the 2awg is overkill and that's what I suggest for that far. For me, I didn't add any square foot to the home so the load calculations that were performed to size the main panel load center still apply. If you add a tiny house now that is additional sq. ft. that you are adding and you should perform new load calculations. The idea of the load calculations is to properly size the panel for the power draw. This includes: HVAC, lights, outlets, bathroom (dedicated 20Amp), kitchen (2 dedicated 20Amp lines), stove, range top, clothes dryer (220VAC?), washing machine, jacuzzi tub in bathroom (?), etc.
how is that possible ? when wiring the main box, the 2 are separate when wiring , as the same for the junction box. if the main has both wired to the same spot , then there would be a gigantic fire ball, followed with a super sonic P O W !!! at least that is my way of thinking.
It is not an one size all answer. You need to understand how far away the sub panel is, what type of wire is it (aluminum/copper) and what temperature it will be subjected to. I would assume 70 degrees for the worse case derating. Then you calculate your voltage drop and you have to understand your loading. Is 60Amps enough and will it be enough after derating? On the question of aluminum you need to check with your local code enforcement to see if aluminum is allowed. If it is and it is a short run aluminum would be sufficient. If it is a long run then I would consider copper. Whatever gauge you determine go to the next level. If your calculations show that a #6 is acceptable then go with #4.
I've got something similar in my basement. It was in the house when we bought it. I'm wondering what your service is on the original panel. Mine is 100A and the subpanel is also 100A. That to me sounds like a bad idea.
Does anyone know why people still use aluminum wire? Is it just a cost thing? Seems like the extra money spent on copper would be worth it, unless there is something I’m missing here.
I dont mind cost at all. I chose aluminum because that is what feeds the house from the street and that is what was used and it is still acceptable. Until the NEC removes it installers will continue to use it. The code does require copper for solar installation so they are inching closer to removing aluminum. Thanks for the comment.
Adding a sub panel will only expand a main panel's circuit capacity and physical range, i.e. locate breakers in a different location of your structure. If done for the wrong reason without involving a licensed electrician it could overload your main panel. In my case, I added a main panel only to give me additional breaker slots for more segmentation and isolation within my existing structure. If you increase living space or add another bathroom or add another kitchen or add another laundry room there is an increased need for power that must be taken into account by performing a load calculation to determine your panel's required power. A panel install is based on load calculations with a built in buffer for safety purposes. If you add things that will put strain on your panel you will be getting close to the safety range and could result in tripping your main panel's breaker. I hope this helps.
I believe you are referring the objectionable currents and the need to keep neutral and ground separate. There is no wire connecting neutral and ground in the subpanel. There was however a bonding screw in the subpanel that bonded neutral and ground (because it can be both a main panel and subpanel). And that bonding screw was removed.
If the device I'm connecting requires three 40 amp breakers and my main panel is full can I use a sub panel? If so how would I feed the power from my main panel to the Sub?
What is your main panel rating of the main breaker? Assuming your main panel has the capacity you would install a subpanel with the appropriate rating, move two adjoining breakers over to the other panel, install the subpanel breaker in the main panel that matches the ampacity of the subpanel, wire the two together using the appropriate or higher rating wire, and install the thre 40Amp breakers. I suggest reading through the NFPA's NECcode book. You can create an account on the site and read it online for free.
out of curiosity...why do you want the neutral and ground to be floating in a sub panel, but you often see them bonded (either by bar or screw) in the main?
@@UDoIt2 oh I know I have always heard about running all grounds. Back to one location (keeping them separate until the end), but I always thought you wanted to keep that separation all the way yo esrt ground
question hope u get back to me i have a 220 volt wire coming off a panel that was meant for a hot tub can i use a sub panel to wire a few new outlets in the same room to support 2 treadmills by any chance
You mixed in 220V wire and tread mills in the same question. Ignoring the 200V wire yes you can wire up a sub panel to the main panel to give you extra breakers slots. You need to make sure you follow the NEC rules for connecting a sub panel, which includes the amps used compared to the primary, the distance between panel and sub panel and how many breakers you want. To properly wire a sub panel you will need 4 wires, ground, neutral, and two hots and all wires need to meet or exceed the desired amerage to be used in the subpanel. The breaker dedicated to the sub panel installed in the main panel may not exceed that of the sub panel"s rating. I recommend consulting a licensed electrician and you local code enforcement.
To all those watching this video, please check with your local AHJ or inspection department to see if you can legally install a panel and feeder. Most areas you are allowed to take a test. If you pass you are allowed to do the work, and it MUST be inspected. After reading many of the questions and some replies, there is a good reason for these laws and inspections. I worked for electrical contractors designing electrical systems for more than 30 years and I am a PE. I have seen some very scary installs. By the way, without an inspection, your home insurance may pay nothing if your work causes the fire and was not inspected.
You can load it up. However, the breaker should not exceed the rating of the box. Really, this sub panel is only for segmenting. I didn't add any additional square footage to the house. The wiring was done wierdly. It went through in one room to another room to the outside. So I split up those branches in the room that we remodeled into separate wiring. I also ran a dedicated line for smoke detectors. And within the garage I added separate branches for outets, lighting and garage door opener. It is best to read the NFPA's NEC guidelines prior to working on this so you understand the restrictions.
I couldn't find anything on this in the NEC. There are a few things to check on in the NEC but my strong recommendation is to read through the NFPA 70 NEC National Electrical Code prior to performing any work. I also suggest you consult a licensed electrician and also consult your code enforcement officer regarding your overall plan. Please pay attention to the section on objectionable currents in section 250.6 (it's worth sitting through several of Mike Holt's YT videos on this topic), also pay attention to section 250.122. Note that a sub-panel as we know it is a feeder panelboard and a main panel is a panelboard. Check if aluminum is permitted in your municipality as well otherwise, install copper. I hope this helps. You can read the NEC on NFPA's website for free - just create a free account. They want everyone to be safe. -John
NEC 250.6 Objectionable Current covers this. The problem with leaving neutral and ground connected in the sub panel is that there is a current path through ground back to the main panel. You never want ground to be a current path. Neutral is the current path. In the main panel they are connected together. If you connect the bond screw and put a current meter around the ground wire you would measure some return current through the ground wire. Remove the screw and you will not (well, very negligible). I was using a main panel for my sub-panel, which has the bonding screw. In a true sub panel the bonding screw is not present (neutral is separate from ground).
Thanks for replying,, agreed,, as to some of the comments about cleaning up the Main Panel, sometimes its not that easy to straighten up the old wiring in an existing Panel, you did a good job., also some local regs will only let you Permit a sub, but not a Main replacement, Mains usually can only be done by a Licensed Elect.
Hmmm .... Under what conditions would you leave the bonding screw in? (or why does the screw exist?) And when you tied into your main panel it looks like you attached both the ground wire and neutral to the same bar... (I could be wrong.)
U Do It On this point, as a way to remember, I tell people to think of everything that comes out of one breaker of the main panel (including a su panel) as one big power strip). That seems to clear up this neutral/ground bonding question in their minds as it looks like a silly thing to do on a power strip. Well, anyway, I've found it useful.
"Under what conditions would you leave the bonding screw in?" You should leave it in ONLY when you have a "direct to ground wire"(copper wire running to a copper ROD in the literal dirt(ground) attached to the ground bar of the panel. To do that to a sub-panel effectively create parallel main boxes. If you are using a main panel as a subpanel (i.e., one that does not have separated ground and neutral bars, this would be what you want to do (ADD the "direct to ground wire" - usually soft(i.e., annealed) #8 bare copper and you want to run it to the grounding rod - don't simply jump it over to the "direct to ground wire" of the main box ) This is to preserve the "path of least resistance" which is what saves your life when an appliance shorts out and you are holding it :-0)
So I had a sub panel added to my garage, the electrician crossed A phase with the neutral everything on B phase had 240volts on it, why didn't the braker trip.
Hello Emanuele, For more details about installing the sub-panel, what tools and materials were used, and frequently asked questions please visit this U Do It™️ article: udoit.me/how-to-install-an-electric-sub-panel This article has all of the details for my particular installation. It is recommended that you consult a licensed electrician. - John
Thank you for the comment! I assume you are referring to the 2-0 wire entering the main panel. I think it would have been easier to do it that way. I wouldn't have needed to bend the wire 360 degrees (a bend to the right and a bend to the left) within the panel. It would have required less space. Instead it just would have needed two 90 degree bends to the breaker and straight up and 90 to the ground/neutral bars. I could still do this. I think I have enough wire where I could bring it in from the bottom. Thank you for watching.
@@vincemilton2003 I'm in NC, sometimes local jurisdictions do go beyond NEC code or state code, but in my case for 100a sub panel I used (permitted and inspected) 1/0 aluminum ground rated individual wires for burying underground in a 24" trench from crawlspace to garage. These had to be in sch80 electric pvc conduit when buried: 2 hot, 1 neutral, and 1 ground, which could be smaller gauge. Under the crawlspace, I have a junction box, and transition to combined sleeved cable with big ol insulated mechanical connectors. This SER cable did not have to be in a conduit as it was fire rated (technically the same individual XHHW-2 wire sleeves as outside, with fire rated outside sleeve I guess, didn't make sense but oh well), just had to be secured every 2.5 feet I believe until it hits my other wall that goes through the wall to my main panel on the outside.
@@clavicus ook I'm in CT where if the wire is under 14 gauge you need a condoit I was told cause I'm adding on a sub panel in my basement and I was told it need a condoit
@@vincemilton2003 I wonder also if crawl space and basements might have different requirements since basements are where things are stored and you may be swinging stuff around and could hit a cable, but in crawl spaces they aren't meant to be occupied by people or storage etc
Why would you install a main panel as your sub panel? The feeder circuit originates on a breaker in the main panel. You should use a main lug only panel for the sub-panel.
Technically antiox is supposed to be worked into the aluminum with a wire brush. You are also supposed to torque the screws down to specific amounts to as to not crush the conductor but still be tight enough. But alas nothing is black and white. NEC doesn't even mention antiox except as a group and not about application requirements and todays AL wiring is supposed to not even need it, not that I would skip it. Its cheap and simple, so why not. And finally there are some things that come with antiox in them connector themselves so all you need to do is insert the conductor and tighten. Why oh why can't things be more straightforward...:-)
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Siemens 100-Amp 20-Space Main Breaker Load Center: amzn.to/3T7holf
Parts list: amzn.to/3N54QcC
Electrical Tools List: amzn.to/3gCphBs
The general contractor tools used in my installation are available here: amzn.to/3TyMaUR
For more details about installing the sub-panel, what tools and materials were used, and frequently asked questions please visit this U Do It™ article: udoit.me/how-to-install-an-electric-sub-panel
“As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.”
Hi! I have two hots coming in and a ground wire all of them I know where to put them. My question is where does the wire come from that I’m supposed to put on the neutral bar
This guy has got to be one of (If not THEE) the most fluent responders ever on RUclips to comments, FAQs, and even those who just want to have something NEGATIVE to say and then wanna "Like" their own comment, and he doesn't 'Fight fire with fire' in his responses with those who are just being flat-out rude ! I see why the electrician field has the HIGHEST casualty rate of ALL trade occupations in terms of employment for either freelance or career....TOO MANY EINSTEINS', And that's just on RUclips alone !!! I COMMEND YOU SIR...You have great control and patience when it comes to dealing with these 'Procrastinators'!!! C'MON GUYS....I think that we all can agree....Its not WHAT you say, but HOW you say it ! Most of the comments have been favorable though.
twilight's last gleaming Wow! Thats all I can say. Thank you!
I had to replace an outdated breaker box in a mobile home. Gabe gave the best advise, most reasonable price and hung in there through the convoluted process of getting a permit from the state. I really appreciated that he kept me informed along the way and was consistently upbeat and helpful. And the job was done well. A+
That is awesome that it worked out!
Why in god's name did you go to the state for a permit? As long as you do it right why get the government telling you what you can do with your property?
Thanks for your effort in making this video. I've worked with many electricians on jobs and they were always the worst snobs, know-it-alls, and rude people. Looks like you've had several of them comment. I think you did a fine job, and again, thanks for your effort.
+Mick R Thank you for this comment!
Yep some full of Sh@##@ ,it shows they think they know something LOL stupid
@@mobilechief Some of us like to help, others like to show how superior they are. The latter make me ill.
@Scott Sloop I wouldn't do it anywhere else or for anyone else for that matter. Why would I?
You are so right about them being snobby and rude. Think they're the smartest guy in the room, but they never take a moment to see if there are anyone actually smarter, which makes them look foolish.
Electricity isn't that hard. Hardest part is knowing the code. I can program computers in 13 languages. Writing code (that works) in Assembly is hard. Electricity isn't.
The ONLY complete install video I could find.
Thank you!
Thanks for the video. One of the best sub panel videos I've seen. Planning to install subpanel in basement. Both panels are GE.
Thank you so much for taking the time to make this video. I found it very helpful.
Thank you for your feedback. If you decide to do this it is recommended that you consult a licensed electrician.
@@UDoIt2 I've already completed the job, just waiting for final inspection. Piece of cake. The hardest part was sourcing the #1 copper. Thanks again!
thank you much for this video as im forced to add a second box to my house to handle my medical cannabis grow for the horrible case of crohn's. I'm disabled and only collect SSDI. with that said i can never afford a electrician. however i used to run my own home repair buss. i did everything except to high work. so my electric skills are a bit rusty. your video helps clear my head for what i need to do thanks again for your very detailed video
Glad this helped. Do you know how many amps your service is and how many amps you are expecting to pull for this grow area?
@@UDoIt2 not all that many.. The biggest thing is a light controller that can run 4 1000 watt HID ligts. I have a 600 w at the wall and a wall unit 5000but AC and Dehumidifier.. I want to run a 60 watt sub off my 100 watt main.. I have bunch of 4 gauge wire and some 10 for that light controller i will take a few 20s out of my existing box for original and bigger grow.. The fans i use are max 75 watt. Most 35 to 50w not sure all the amps.. Figure 2 20amp and the 2 from main and might add 1 20 to garage.. My portable compressor throws breaker if any thing is on and a lot of house is on that 15 amp 1... A question about flickering leds all ot them in bath and hall.. That sounds like breaker to me, or do you think both dimmer went out same time and then works fine at other times? They cut so many Corners when they built my house in 1980. it was my grandparents so I didn't know what was going on when they built it because I was a kid but insano house wrap tar paper on the side of the house to foot centers on the joist on the roof with OSB it looks like the ocean I'm in Cape Cod no bolts through the sill plate on a house so they're hurricane to just blow the house away.. Thanks for info
A few things I would have done differently. Correct me if I am wrong in any of this.
1. I would have used copper and not aluminum. You have to use anti-oxidant (which you correctly pointed out) on the lugs, but I have read that you are not supposed to use antioxidant on the side with breakers. There are various opinions about whether this is acceptable or not and possibly different compounds that could be or should be used. I would just rather avoid it all together and use copper wire.
2. Install the sub panel "upside down" and you could run a shorter run of wire from the main to the sub panel at the bottom. The panels can be installed either way up. Then run conduit between the two panels to protect the wire - required by code in some areas.
Thanks for the video
Yea for sure....copper is definitely better. The inspector checked the antiox on every termination point of the aluminum I like the idea of the upsidedown install. If I get my way all this is coming out and a 200 Amp service with a bigazz panel with lots of gutter space will be installed. Thank you so much for the comments.
@@UDoIt2 I know SqD says not to use it on their QO style breakers in which case the inspector can not make you use it. The NEC does not require thats because it is not true aluminum but an alloy.
Thanks for this. I've spent the last while rewiring two garages that had double-tapped fuse boxes. All new wires are run and I'll be installing a sub panel tomorrow morning. I was confident I knew what I was doing (including removing the bonding screw) but your video confirmed I was on track. It's not that complicated. If the internet has taught us anything, it's that only rocket science is actually rocket science. That said, my son is an electrician and I have sent him photos of everything I'm doing, just to be safe.
Jim Smith great comment! Thank you!
If I was to put that 2/0 wire in plastic conduit would I need to remove all the insulation ? Also if I used copper wire what size would have been acceptable in your video ? I would be running a 100 amp sub from a 200 amp main panel.
I’ve watched a LOT of Sub panel videos and yours here was THE BEST. Thank you.
Hey thank you for taking the time to let me know that!
Great video . Very meticulous , shows you care about your work even tho no one sees
what electricians do cause it's always covered ...
Thank you noticing that! And thank you for watching and commenting!
The main panel was very crowded, especially after I swapped out 10 standard breakers for AFCI/GFCI breakers. It was a pain to clean up. My cousin does a lot of electrical work (he is a home builder). He said I have about 8 inches too much of the 2-0 wire. So I'll eventually shorten that.
I'll have the sub panel inspected in a couple of months. The sub panel was added specially for my youtube workshop (garage) so I can get back to making 'maker' videos. The garage only had two outlets that were shared with the kitchen and my home office. I could see tripping the breakers everytime my compressor kicks in. The addition of the sub-panel allowed me to install a 30Amp breaker for a a heater (installed and video is up on that one), lighting, dedicated breaker for garage door openers and two breakers for outlets for all of my equipment. The panel also allowed me to run a dedicated circuit for NEST smoke detectors throughout the house (would you believe that there is no requirement for wired smoke detectors since the house was built in 1972 but if it were a new house you would need to install wired smoke detectors) and two circuits for my sons music studio (in progress - timelapse videos are up on that as well).
May you have a happy new year in 2017! Thank you for visiting!
Very meticulous really , are we watching the same video
When you are landing the main lug wires after they are tight take and shake them back and forth sometimes you can tighten an full round more.
+Joe Tiller Excellent point. I will make a note of that. Thank you for taking the time to comment.
Joe Tiller good tip, thanks.
My future project is to add a panel to the meter box outside to accommodate a pool. Because of my backyard lay out it would be so much easier to run the pool circuit from a panel at the meter instead of the main panel inside the house. The outdoor panel would not only serve a pool, but other things like a shed/mancave, and outdoor lighting. My question is, of the two panels which one should become my sub panel?
You'll definitely want to consult a licensed electrician for this project. There's a lot to deal with including properly grounding the pool. It can all be done in one contract. If you want to do the work yourself I suggest you pay a licensed electrician for consultation. Either way the plans will need to be reviewed and approved by your construction office. Although this isn't a full proof way to guarantee safety it is at least a form of oversight.
Most definitely consult an electrician. There are many special conditions to be met specifically for pools. You absolutely do not want to be electrocuted in your pool.
Nice video. What I find interesting is that in my township they do not allow SER between the main and sub panels. I just added a 100 amp sub and my initial plan was shot down because I had listed SER. In my township they require an insulated ground between the main and sub. They had me switch to THHN conductors which required 1-1/4" conduit. This creates a domino effect because 1-1/4" PVC conduit breaks the 40 60 rule for studs. So then you have to sister the studs. Made what should have been a straight forward job kind of a headache.
When you read NFPA NEC it is abiguous. It was approved in my township but also depends on the inspector's state of mind (did the inspector have a fight with their kids, got in an accident, ordered at mcdonalds and the drive thru forgot their milkshake and now has a vendetta to screw everyone for the rest of the day). So many headaches are often caused by a pissy inspector.
Easily the best step by step video I have seen for this task.
Thank you so much for taking the time to leave a comment! Thank you for the feedback!
I'm an anti-oxidant newbie. I'm using noalox, which is non-conductive. I thought I'd install the wires so they have full metal-on-metal contact and then put the anti-oxidant around the connection so no humid air can get to the dissimilar metals. I kinda had to make a small mess to ensure it was sealed all the way around - because I can't see if the noalox is applied under the screw. Is that why you put the anti-oxidant on first? Am I doing it wrong? Thanks!
We recently purchased a fixer upper (built in 1905) and I need to add two subpanels. I want to do as much work as I can before paying a professional to replace the main service panel. Now for the question. It seems copper SER wire is recommended over aluminum SER for safety concerns. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to produce this video.
Aluminum is fine with antiox but go with electricians recommendations and use copper. Go one size bigger than what is recommended on the wire as well. Keep neutrals and grounds separate due to objectionable currents (read about that and I suggewt you rwad the NEC ).
Excellent communication and video presentation.
Thank you so much Jim for taking the time to leave this comment! I appreciate the feedback! -John
Please explain - will you have 2 input supply lines, a) grid, and b) solar running at the same time? is that possible? I can't find anyone to explain how. The reason I ask is, my solar system is smaller than my needs sometimes, cloudy, big load, whatever. and I want it to assist the grid, not be one or the other. A AND B, no A or B supply.
Hello GJSX, A Solar Powered System can be installed in such a way as to feed the grid (known as a grid-tied system) but also help to alleviate some of your usage. As you said your consumption is lower at times. Depending upon your city/town electrical code and agreements with utilities Solar Powered Systems are often installed together with a meter upgrade that allows tracking of feeding the grid. There is also a safety interlock installed which will disengage solar panel supply completely in the event of loss of electrical supply. On days where your consumption is lower than what your Solar Panels produce the meter would accumulate the total power fed to the grid. This is why the new meters are called Net Meters as they compute net consumption / generation. On days where your consumption is higher than your Solar Panels power production your meter will accumulate a loss. Ideally, the system is sized correctly so that your consumption is lower than your generation.
Some extra information beyond your question: There is a huge push for Solar Power Generation but this comes at a risk for the grid infrastructure that is way behind in upgrades. As more homes add Solar Power generation the grid is being filled with higher power. This puts an extra burden on the local transformers, sub-stations and beyond. Until the infrastructure is upgraded in anticipation of these larger power requirements the utility companies will be playing whack-a-mole throughout the grid. We see this playing out in California and Texas right now. It may be happening in other states but I do not recall. I think some states see this problem and are limiting new solar customers. Since you have solar, you are the few who can enjoy a lesser utility bill.
Details about the Solar Panes: The solar panels will generate an average amount of power based on your location and the angle of the system to the sun's optimal angle. These panels are connected to an inverter (if grid tied) that works in conjunction with your power meter and your home. The power is AC power, which means alternating current. The electrons are literally moving back and forth at a rate of 60 times per second in the USA or 60Hertz (60Hz). The power you consume in your home comes 100% from the Utility at night. However, during the day, your Solar Panels generate power as DC current (electrons flow in one direction). This flows through the inverter and the inverter converts the DC (direct current electrons flowing in one direction) to AC (alternating current electrons bouncing back and forth). To complicate this more, the inverter must time the bouncing of the electrons back and forth at exactly the same time much like two guitarists strumming together to amplify the signal. If one is slightly out of phase it will cause problems with the power and either distort it or cancel it. The inverter does a great job of ensuring that the Alternating Current that it generates is in sync with that of the Utility. Not only does it need to be exactly 60Hz but it needs to be in phase with the Utility's 60Hz power.
There are also systems that you can create which is off-grid systems. This is a system that generates solar power to power something only during sunlight. And I'm sure you have or know someone who has a little battery powered light with a solar panel on it. This is an off-grid solar powered unit with a battery. The expectation is that the battery will supply the required power throughout the night based on the worst case power generation day. The same can be done for a home where you have a battery backup off-grid system where you can have steady power throughout the day and night. This same battery backup system can be installed on a grid-tied system but then extra safety features are required to disconnect the Utility power from the home power in the event the Utility power is interrupted (fallen tree, car accident, blown transform).
Please look up Veritassium's video on "The Big Misconception About Electricity". It's more than the wires and the electrons- it's about the electromagnetic field around the loop that transmits the power. This is a lot to chew on but I hope it helps some.
Can you tell me why you bent the 2 mains and neutral wire rather than making them the correct length with no bends? is there a reason? Great video. Thanks.
This was a temporary installation. You can see in this video ruclips.net/video/WyjY5UCk1mU/видео.html I moved things around after I studded the wall out (with the intention of drywalling - btw it is still not drywalled [how many years later?]).
How can you tell if the Main Panel will support the Sub Panel?
Any main panel will support a Sub Panel. Are you increasing the demand or merely segmenting your existing circuits? To ask the question differently we'll first talk about the load calculations. Load calculations are a method used to determine what size your panel needs to be based on your home's area, number/size of HVAC units, number of bathrooms, number of laundry rooms, number of kitchens and the fixed appliances within the kitchens, number of lights in each room, etc. All of that is added together and you add in a safety margin and your panel size is determined, i.e. let's say a 150Amp panel is sufficient. If you add up all of the amperage of each breaker it exceeds the total amps of the panels. So how does this work? You typically do not have everything running at exactly the same time at max capacity. For instance, you have 15Amp breaker for lights but maybe only 6 100Watt bulbs are on so that is about 6 Amps of current - not the 15 that it is rated for. So why put in a panel? You will not overload your panel if you are doing this purely for segmenting, e.g. splitting the existing lights across multiple breakers or splitting existing outlets across multiple breakers or even adding additional outlets to your garage or to other rooms. But let's say you add an addition. If you add an addition chances are you will exceed your panel's capacity, especially if it is a large addition. The addition will require an HVAC unit or multiple multi-split units, outlets following the 6/12 rule, lighting, appliances possibly, a bar with additional requirements, perhaps a sump pump...this can push you over the edge. So then you may need to upgrade your service / panel to the next stage. Maybe you want to add a garage with a lift and run a welder, a compressor, a plasma table, a CNC possibly all at the same time. You'll need to upgrade your service. A licensed electrician can help you determine this as well. Your construction office may have some guidelines but it will typically be from the NEC version that they have normalized to - btw you can read the NEC for free just be creating an account on the NFPA org website. I strongly suggest that you read the section on load calculation to have an understanding of this and how many outlets (and dedicated outlets) are required for each room, appliance, etc. I hope this helps Joe! -John
John, I can’t thank you enough getting back with me. Your reply has helped me a great deal! Thank you, I’m now a subscriber! 👍👍👊
What are the giant loops at the top for? Seems like a waste of expensive cable
Wasnt that bad. I spend more on 3DPrinting filament and I stupidly waste way more $$$ on goin out to eat instead of grilling. All kidding aside you have a valid point.... I should have made it more direct.
Being a former(retired) maintenance electrician (system repairman) in a major U.S _ steel mill, the very first thing I learned, is to always leave yourself extra wire. Whether in a j-box, main panel, motors, and splices, always leave extra wire for burn off.
Thank you for this perspective. I try to live some also. But I see this exquisite work by OCD installers where the wire is bent at a perfect 90 and the wire length is exact. The trade off is exactly what you said - without extra wire making repairs is difficult.
@@UDoIt2 Overall-still a great job and a very informative video!
you should be using an insulating bushing at the end of those romex connectors for your service wire.
Thank you for pointing this out Eric.
Bushing are not required on cable connectors .
@@thomasmarable6818 I believe they are for 1/0 cable.
Thanks for the video, hope I didn't miss this in your video..... when replacing a main panel, if the wires are too short, can a splice be added using wire nuts, where the wire nut connections would be contained in the main panel box?
yes you can splice within the panel deoending upon how much room in in your gutter area. There is a section in the NEC about splicing within a gutter area. I forget the section #.
Hey buddy, can you use 6/3 wire to go from the sub to a tankless water heater? Probably a stupid question, but I was taught the only stupid one, is that not asked 🤔😉
Hey there, It depends upon the model and if it is gas or electric. I'm assuming electric since you mention 6/3 wire. I recommend you consult with a licensed electrician, a licensed plumber and your code enforcement official. One electric heater I looked at required (3) 40 amp connections. 40Amp requires 8 gauge but sometimes I jump to the next gauge, so 6 would be sufficient. If the run is long (what is long? dunno, maybe 100 ft plus???), 6 may cover you but this is where an electrician can determine if that is correct.
What if you don’t have any opening in main for the new connecting breaker?
This is usually an "easy" solution if you are mounting the sub-panel near your main panel - just remove two adjacent breakers and the associated wiring and move it over to the other panel to free up the two slots. I say easy because it is easy to picture but implementation might be a completely different story based on your wiring and available space. Hope that helps!
aren't lug covers required on the subpanel
Thanks for the very informative video. I've been watching a bunch of videos about household electricity in general, many of them posted by electricians. There seems to be a very common theme with all of them, that is electricians rarely ever agree with each other! What's the deal with that? No matter how professional the job, another electrician always chimes in and says it should have been done differently. Could you guys possibly arrange a meeting with each other and sort out your differences instead of just saying every other electrician is wrong. Thank you.
Will B: Spot on! I notice the same thing with welders
Good to note about the AFCI tripping. I guess your toaster throws an arc as it's turned on or off? I'm wondering why so many people are up in arms about the extra wiring in the panel..don't you want that wiring for when you move a plug or light switch but finally run out of wire at the outlet? Don't you want the extra wire in the main panel as well in case you have to relocate a breaker or 8? I believe that what they say about filling up an electrical panel is a good guide line ON ORIGINAL INSTALLATION...the box was designed to run it's full complement of breakers and will have no issue running a full panel until the home actually uses enough power to open the main breaker...that'w when you want to upgrade to a higher amperage and larger service with more breaker slots. Another issue with a full panel is the increased difficulty in tracing wires and rerouting.
With the AFCI the microprocessor is looking for a specific set of spark signatures. The toaster, the microwave, the vacuum and definitely my woodworking equipment like my saw.
YESSSS - extra wire for moving breakers!!!! I like the extra wire for that reason but doubling up on 3 wires eats a ton of space on panels with small gutter space. I really don't like this original panel because it is so tight.
If you have no spaces on your main panel then what do you do? I want to add a 100amp sub panel will I need to remove a breaker to make space and add the breaker I removed to the sub panel?
Yes, you would need to remove to adjacent breakers where you can install a double breaker. Then you can locate those breakers that you removed into the sub panel. Please consult a licensed electrician and consider reading the NEC book that is available to read electronically for free on the NFPA.org website.
Thanks for this video and great explanation. I'll be installing a sub panel in my shade soon, greatly appreciated
Thank you for the feedback! Reading the NFPA's NEC was helpful. You can access it for free on their website once you create an account.
Thank you so much for the video. I have a question. Is 200 amp better for us if we have central a/c, electric water heater and electric stove in 2000 sq ft. home? We have 100 amp now. the light dim in a blink a little when they come on. Will 200 amp solve that?
Thank you for taking the time to comment.
My guess is that your 100amp service is possibly underrated for 2000 square foot or it is very close to exceeding 100Amp which would put you into the league of a 150Amp service but I wouldn't know that for sure without first performing the load calculations. You can perform your load calculations based on your current build out by following this spreadsheet: www.electrical-knowhow.com/2012/01/residential-load-calculation.html You will need to know the ampere rating of your stove/oven/washer/dryer/dishwasher/electric water heater/electric heat/btu of the HVAC and SEER level, number of outlets in every room, etc. to properly complete this. Sign up for a free account at NFPA.org and be sure to read through NEC NFPA 70 standard as well. There it tells you about the requirements as they stand now (but 99% of the time don't apply to older homes - for instance, my home was built in the 70's - there were no requirements for GFIs in the bathrooms and the house could be sold like that. I had to go through and install GFI breakers on every breaker with outlets [I feel safer that way]. But, if you retrofitted a bathroom, they would require you to apply the latest code under certain conditions. And I think in some places if you are upgrading more than 1/4 of a room then you would have to apply the new standard that is currently adopted by your town/city/county/state which is usually NOT the latest but rather a couple of revisions [years] old. An older home with a kitchen may only have one 15Amp circuit but the new code requires two 20 Amp circuits with specific spacing requirements on the outlets. Depending upon if you meet this rework threshold you may have to run new lines to the kitchen which could add more $$$ to your estimate if you are not doing the work yourself and especially if you do not have room in your panel. I'm have this problem now in my kitchen - one set of outlets are 15Amp and one is 20Amp. If I run my microwave on the 15Amp I should not turn on the toaster unless I want to test the breaker out [been there did that 5 times already]. So I had to move the toaster to the 20Amp circuit and now they can run together.).
You can perform a test based by shutting off all breakers but the central ac and one breaker for lights. This will isolate everything. Turn your lights on, watch them and and then kick on the HVAC. If it dims that means that there is a large power startup current is being consumed to get the compressor running. If the flickering persists for a longer duration after the compressor motor starts then you may have another electrical wiring issue and that should be looked at because there could be a fire hazard with a loose wire. Don't forget to the turn the breakers back on. Please note that you will NEVER get rid of the huge power draw but you could minimize it by upgrading to higher amp service. You can also minimize it by upgrading the wiring that supplies the panel with a heavier gauge wire. But those solutions are expensive for a problem that plagues every household with a HVAC. If you have sensitive electronic equipment I would get a UPS with power conditioners for those so that they are able to switch over quickly to good power during these occurrences. If you do not have sensitive electronics then don't worry about it. I consider sensitive electronics whole house automation >$2k, home theater equipment > $5k and computer equipment > $5k.
If HVAC compressors only have VFDs for driving the motor things would be so much better! They could use motors that are half the power rating.
U Do It this is the way you get on the 6 o'clock news .will a 100 amp breaker pull a 150 amp breaker box that's not grounded correct? Hope I'm wrong. Thanks for video
That's not uncommon , try a hard start on your central system
Probably a straight pipe between panels and just wire through it to each connection point.....especially 02 Why the wire jumper in your new panel between the hots?
yea that would have been easier! When I installed it ... it was temporary. That wall has been removed and I put studs up. The extra let me move the panel easily.
Is the total sum of amperage of the breakers in the main box greater than the rating of the boxes total output? It's ok to have 300 amp worth of breakers in a 200 amp box? Obviously you're going to have a main breaker rated for that box size
+Patrick Pikulski Yes but when you spec a load center you need to perform load calculations that have built in buffers for future expansion. Then sum of all that will allow you to determine what rating load center you need. If I wasn't stretching myself too thin I would have rather swapped out my main for a 200Amp service/load center because of my workshop. See this video and jump ahead to the panel overloading section. ruclips.net/video/WifIi5PNPck/видео.html. It is possible to overload a panel but you would need everything turned on. I installed a 5000W garage heater in another video. It required a 30Amp breaker but will typically draw about 20Amps. So just because the breaker is rated at that doesnt mean that is what the loads will. I had incadesent lights throughout the house but then I switched to LEDs. We went from 60W and 100W bulbs down to 8W and 14W bulbs. So the Amps originially speced for rooms are now less thanks to advances in lighting technology. The video link here should talk about the NEC also. If not you can sign up to access the NFPA70 National Electric Code for free at NFPA.org. I also have a running comments/suggestions in a comment in this panel video. Thank you for the comment and thank you for watching.
Yes. Having more circuit breakers allows you to isolate that wiring from the rest of the panel and use smaller wiring safely. As most loads are intermittent, (as in you use the dryer once or twice a week). Also understand that the breaker rating is not for a continuous load! (The continuous load of a 200A breaker is only 160Amps.) If a circuit is on for more that 3 hours, it's considered continuous.
Good job learned a lot. The space was pretty tight.
Thank you! Not a lot of gutterspace in the old panel. Thank you for taking the time to comment!
Any particular reason you used Aluminum vs Copper leads?
No doubt copper wire is much more expensive, but wouldn't it be worth it to use copper? I would assume it would be easier to bend.
Great video. Why do the two phase red and black wires from the subpanel go to a single phase in the main panel and how are the loads in the subpanel balanced off that single phase in the main panel?
They don't, panels are designed with a zigzag pattern behind, so that a properly installed 240V breaker straddles one leg on each side. The two wires coming off the breaker are opposite phases, one red, one black.
Thank you for answering this. I just noticed this comment. Gndneutrl273k I missed your question.
Thank you so much for this video pls tell me what size wire did you used is it 14-2 ????
Hello there Vince! There's a list of the materials I used in the description of the video. Let me know if you were able to find it. I believe it was 2-0 wire between the panels but please double check in the description.
@@UDoIt2 why 2/0 that is way oversize for 100 amps, could be to large for the breaker.
I got a question about electric . Im replacing a 100 amp box and after the meter was pulled there was still power to the box. There is only 1 meter
That's great! You will never have to pay for power then!
Lol i found the problem. It was the old service wire was bad coming from the weather head it was back feeding through the neutral.
@@SacredAmerican wow, lucky you to have found that out that way instead of through an appliance lighting on fire.
Thanks for the video. Want to add a sub panel for a detached garage. Still gathering all the required information. Will try to upload the video.
Awesome If you do the permit yourself I have a video on how to file for a permit. Some places require copper all the way from main panel to sub panel. Your local construction enforcement office can help with that.
@@UDoIt2 thanks I will look into that.
Why so much wire and what size wire and why
Why did you land the wires like that. Looks like butterfly wings
With those bends in the extra length, the wires have the flexibility to be removed and/or reinstalled easily, compared to short, straight sections of heavy wire.
@@throngcleaver that's brutal
Wonderful information
Thank you so much!
Thanks! So simple and you taught people how to save lots of money IF they are mechanically inclined.
Thank you David!
Nice video but me working as a license electrician doing custom houses and havent to deal with inspection this would never pass just because your wires are really messy you gotta have them just right and not all over each other and all that extra wire going everywhere
Thank you for this comment! The main panel passed. I guess they didn't care about wiring neatness then. And not one inspector has pointed out neatness to me in all the years I have installed panels. I agree that it is an important aspect and should be considered/recommended during the inspection process. Thank you for taking the time to add your observation.
U Do It Oh im sorry didnt mean to disrespect im in arizona inspection is bad over here in the sense that they started putting new breakers that trip with the neutral hitting metal and Yeah neatness matters with those new breakers
No disrespect taken at all. I'm an engineer - we try to take input and be transparent and not defensive about it. Otherwise, there is a chance that something can blow up / burn down / break. Are you talking about AFCI/GFI combo breakers tripping or is this a different type of breaker? I replaced all breakers with AFCI/GFI combos and I had to put in GFI in a couple of spots (kitchen because of toaster tripping the AFCI fault detection and my garage because of my power tools).
The ground wire in the sub panel is only connected to one of the 2 ground bars. Wont you need to bond that 2nd ground bar ?
Thank you for this question. The ground bars are electrically connected through the panel itself.
I always bond them regardless. First wire I put in so its at the back. Personal preference.
Say, do you know whether you would have needed a conduit to protect that wire if it went straight up to the joists, and to a subpanel elsewhere? That’s my situation and I can’t find a reference. I see that your wire is protected by being between both boxes.
Follow the NEC code per your construction office (the year they are normalized to) recommendation and consider using conduit. I do prefer safer installs.
Nice video ! my question is , are you allowed to make connections in the main breaker box . I see you connected a neutral together with a wire nut .
Hey there Thomas, provided there is enough room in the gutter then yes you can make connections in the main breaker box. It is best to consult the NEC and look through Mike Holt's forums on this topic as well!!!
If I am looking to install a sub panel in my basement and I have no slots left in my main box as the last two (same as the double slot you used) are already running a sub panel out in my garage... is it simply a matter of moving my garage 100 amp out, installing the sub box like you did, then just hooking my garage back up in the sub panel? Or should I move a different breaker set out to the sub panel? Seems like it would be a bit crowded with 3 big cable sets coming in and out of one box... thanks for the video!
It might be helpful to have a few photos of this first. You can follow me on insta or twitter and I will follow back and you can dm me. You will also want to read the NEC guidelines that are adopted by your town/city or consult an electrician. You can read the NEC for free from nfpa.org.
Excellent PD thank you
Appreciate you taking the time. I only have a few slots left now in this sub panel. WHAT HAPPENED??? Soon I will need to remove the main panel and this sub-panel and install a very large panel. I still have to install a new breaker for exterior outlets, a double-pole 50Amp for my welder and plasma cutter in the garage, another dedicated 20Amp for my compressor to support the plasma cutter and an air dryer for the compressor (I didn't even know that was a thing)! UGH!!! - John
Nice breakdown! One question: Could you run that wire 100’ from your main panel to a garage (and then into a sub panel)?
Or would you have to install a sub panel in the basement and then run the wire to another panel in the garage?
you can run it to another location. Consult with a licensed electrician and talk to your construction office. It will require a main breaker in the panel to ahut off the power to the bars remitely. It really wasnt required in this install since it was right next to it. I suggest using copper for a long run.
And thank you for the feedback
@@UDoIt2 aluminum is fine too you just have to use the calculation drop but in the end copper might be cheaper than the conduit needed for the larger size of AL lol
Very informative and complete. Thank you. Thumbs up regardless of the critics
Thank you!
Hey, i have a question about the size of the wire you are using - 2-0? Is that 2/0 awg or 2 awg compact stranded aluminum ? I am about to buy some cable 1/0 awg for my subpanel and i am a bit concern about fitting it into the main lugs...
It is 00 gauge wire (double zero) which is larger than 2awg. Base your cable selection on the required current and the minimum size required by NEC guidelines. You can read the NEC 70 for free from nfpa.org. Just sign up by creating a free account and you can browse through the NEC guidelines. The list of american wire gauge sizes in diameter can be found on this table if you are concerned about it fitting within the lug. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge The difference between 2-0 and 1-0 awg wire is about 0.04 inches in diameter. If you are using aluminum be sure to coat the ends with anti-oxidation compound. If you use copper wire, which is a bear to work with, you do not need anti-oxidant.
what size is 1/0 cable I'm planning on putting 125 amp in my out building for the purpose of storing stuff , lights, some rec., . its about 60' from the house. I have a 200 amp service. And what would u suggest. tks
NICELY DONE.
Thank you for your feedback. - John
Was wondering what size was the main panel? Was that a 100 amp also?
If I remember correctly 150Amp. Thank you - John
Watched the video...only had a few questions...but overall..great video....excellent zoom in attributes......alot of videos fail to zoom in but your video was right on.....Please continue to make videos........Thanks...
Thank you so much for the feedback. Filming in 4k helps. I will keep in mind the zooming in future videos!
I have a question please. Can you tell me the size of the connector you used? And if they are 1” or bigger you are supposed to put a plastic bushing.
Thank you
I will check that. And thank you for the guidance.
not the size of connector size of wire # 4 or bigger you have to use a plastic bushing so you don't risk scarring into the wire. hence AC vibrates and higher amps = higher vibration. hope it helped
Bushing are not required on cable connectors. They are designed for the cable, if he ran conduit then bushings are required.
whats the deal with the bend on the ground wire? i do low voltage not electrical but i was taught around 20 years ago or so not to make sharp bends or 90° turns in ground wires because if a lightning strike went thru the ground it would shoot out the sharp bend. your ground is bent closer to 180° do i just have bad information or are your ground wires not installed properly?
Lightning doesn't like bends and will exit to the next spot it can jump to. That is correct. That definitely applies to the earth ground rod and the wiring from that ground rod. You want the smoothest path out of the ground and to the box so that lightning will take the path through earth and not be reflected back. The sharp bends are something you definitely concern yourself with antenna wires and other cables for communications in radio stuff. There may be other applications but I forget them all. It's been some time since I had power transmission classes (I have a BSEE). I think practically speaking, if my home gets hit with lightning or if lightning strikes nearby and causes a surge my shit will get fried no matter what. Hell my neighbor's equipment got fried at our old house just from a big ass lightning bolt that was over his house (I have a video of that lightning strike - it was wicked). I don't want to comment any more on the chances of such an event for fear of jinxing myself. I will consult with my colleagues (most of them are electrical engineers as well) and reply with their thoughts on this. I read through NFPA 70 and I remember lightning arrestors, ground wire installation and proper bonding to the ground rod. I also remember that cable / telephone lines need to be properly grounded but I don't remember anything about the bends in the sub panel being mentioned. NFPA 70 is like 800+ pages. I'll give it a look through again.
How do you know if your main panel is big enough to support the sub panel? I am making a woodworking shop in my garage and I need to install a sub panel in the garage off my house panel
what size service do u have now? And what are u going to run in your shop? Chances are u will be fine.....but if u say u will be welding and running a compressor and an 10kwatt elec heater at the same time....it could be tight
What size service did you have when you did this 100 amp sub-panel? Did you run the sub-panel to give yourself more room?
Gary D. Wright 150Amp. Yes, just needed more room for my shop and dedicated circuits for youtube studio.
The old box qwhere you got rhe power from, how many amps is ot?
Hello Pirru, My main load center is 150Amp service. For more details about installing the sub-panel, what tools and materials were used, and frequently asked questions please visit this U Do It™️ article: udoit.me/how-to-install-an-electric-sub-panel Hope this helps and feel free to ask additional questions if you can't find the answer on my article. - John
@@UDoIt2 Thank you Nice job
Have to agree, could have rough measured se cable out side of main box to mark and cut outside of the panel. Then put it into the connector. Also would have pre cut shorter instead of stripping back six feet of casing.
Thank you! I do waste a lot of EVERYTHING I touch! I plan on redoing this entire thing when I rip it out and put in a HUGE 200+ Amp service with a crap ton of slots and loads of gutter room.
Can you please tell me what wire this is so i can buy it for my project?
Hello Joey, The description has a lot of the details. I recommend that you consult a licensed electrician prior to doing anything and determine what gauge wire you need. It might also be better to not use SER cable as I did and instead use wire in conduit. Again, speak with an electrician and also your code enforcement officer. Hope this helps, John
Thanks for the video.
and the hots those hots could have went straight into lugs with no bends u always want both hots to be about the same lenghth
Excellent. Easy to understand. Thanks.
Thank you so much!
Where are you bushings for each panel? Code required.
Thank you for your question. Could you be more specific in your question? I will attempt to answer based on how I interpret your question. NFPA NEC 2011, which is what was used states that any NM cable passing through a drilled or punchout in must go through a bushing or gromment (that is listed, which I interpret as UL Listed) that must shield the cable from the sharp edges of the punchout. It goes onto say further that the NM insulation must also protrude through the bushing or grommet. The UL listed romex connectors that I used meet that requirement.
@@UDoIt2 I am aware of the ul codes. In my neck of the woods, I am required to put a bushing over the romex connector also.
Very informative with excellent instructions. Loved this video and my ONE and only complaint is when you placed the 100 amp breaker in that was really tight with the remark “holy crap.” I know it may not be offensive to the majority of people but to some it is. Thanks again and keep up your great videos!
Thank you! I have issues! Appreciate the feedback. The real unfiltered words would be many if I weren't filming - we have colorful language in jersey!
The neutral wire can be wired to the ground bar?
Yes but only in the main panel. For reference see 250.6 "Objectionable Currents" in the NEC guide. Mike Holt has a great explanation of this and why it is important to keep them separate on subpanels.
Why dont the panels use allen head set screws or something thats easier to torque than flatheads?
IKR! At least the robertsons on the siemens panels you can torque down
Good video... couple of questions tho
1. Where you buy the big grey cable? Item number by any chance for it?
2. Is that enough power to run a 50-60 amp breaker from main panel outside down about 100 ft to a subpanel in a tiny house? Please help lol
1. Here is copper part number from home depot: Model# 27083599 for $16/ft. If you want aluminum it is 2,2,2,4 Model# 13102999 and it was $1.69 a foot. As you can see in the video I used aluminum (make sure you get oxidizer).
2. You can add a sub panel of any size that you want as long as it is less than or the same as the feed to the main load center. Since you will be added a subpanel make sure it has a breaker like the one I bought. Be sure to read the NFPA70 NEC guidelines for free at NFPA.ORG. Just sign up for a free account and you can read the entire thing. Keep in mind the wire resistance plays a part with long runs. I would go with a beefier gauge wire than what is required. For instance, go with the 2,2,2,4 for the 60 Amp. There are also restrictions based on the how the cable is packed and if it is bundled along side other wires. In those cases you have to reduce its capability and increase the wire gauge. Going with the 2awg is overkill and that's what I suggest for that far. For me, I didn't add any square foot to the home so the load calculations that were performed to size the main panel load center still apply. If you add a tiny house now that is additional sq. ft. that you are adding and you should perform new load calculations. The idea of the load calculations is to properly size the panel for the power draw. This includes: HVAC, lights, outlets, bathroom (dedicated 20Amp), kitchen (2 dedicated 20Amp lines), stove, range top, clothes dryer (220VAC?), washing machine, jacuzzi tub in bathroom (?), etc.
so on the main panel neutral and ground from the subpanel are connected to the same ground bar
Yes - they are connected in the main but must remain separate elsewhere - you can look this up in the NEC code - search for "Objectionable Currents"
how is that possible ?
when wiring the main box, the 2 are separate when wiring , as the same for the junction box.
if the main has both wired to the same spot , then there would be a gigantic fire ball, followed with a super sonic P O W !!!
at least that is my way of thinking.
@@djohnson3678 neutral and ground. There is very little V DELTA between these two, therefore there should not be any POW.
@@stephenmurdoch2970 - pow ? what is that ?
What type of wire would you use for a 60 amp double pole rather than 100 amp double pole?
It is not an one size all answer. You need to understand how far away the sub panel is, what type of wire is it (aluminum/copper) and what temperature it will be subjected to. I would assume 70 degrees for the worse case derating. Then you calculate your voltage drop and you have to understand your loading. Is 60Amps enough and will it be enough after derating? On the question of aluminum you need to check with your local code enforcement to see if aluminum is allowed. If it is and it is a short run aluminum would be sufficient. If it is a long run then I would consider copper. Whatever gauge you determine go to the next level. If your calculations show that a #6 is acceptable then go with #4.
#6 THHN Copper. Google "NEC ampacity table".
I always find it easier to wire in the breaker then install it in the panel. Just a matter of personal preference.
Sounds good! Thanks for the tip! -John
Very good explanation
I've got something similar in my basement. It was in the house when we bought it. I'm wondering what your service is on the original panel. Mine is 100A and the subpanel is also 100A. That to me sounds like a bad idea.
My service is 150A. I hope to replace it all with a large 40 slot 200amp service.
Is the wire from main to sub rated for 100 amps.
@@crunch9876 z
Does anyone know why people still use aluminum wire? Is it just a cost thing? Seems like the extra money spent on copper would be worth it, unless there is something I’m missing here.
I dont mind cost at all. I chose aluminum because that is what feeds the house from the street and that is what was used and it is still acceptable. Until the NEC removes it installers will continue to use it. The code does require copper for solar installation so they are inching closer to removing aluminum. Thanks for the comment.
Adding a sup panel will increase amps on the main panel right?
Adding a sub panel will only expand a main panel's circuit capacity and physical range, i.e. locate breakers in a different location of your structure. If done for the wrong reason without involving a licensed electrician it could overload your main panel. In my case, I added a main panel only to give me additional breaker slots for more segmentation and isolation within my existing structure. If you increase living space or add another bathroom or add another kitchen or add another laundry room there is an increased need for power that must be taken into account by performing a load calculation to determine your panel's required power. A panel install is based on load calculations with a built in buffer for safety purposes. If you add things that will put strain on your panel you will be getting close to the safety range and could result in tripping your main panel's breaker. I hope this helps.
U Do It A little complicated but thanks a lot.
Isn’t the wire connecting the neutral and ground on the sub panel supposed to be removed?
I believe you are referring the objectionable currents and the need to keep neutral and ground separate. There is no wire connecting neutral and ground in the subpanel. There was however a bonding screw in the subpanel that bonded neutral and ground (because it can be both a main panel and subpanel). And that bonding screw was removed.
If the device I'm connecting requires three 40 amp breakers and my main panel is full can I use a sub panel? If so how would I feed the power from my main panel to the Sub?
What is your main panel rating of the main breaker? Assuming your main panel has the capacity you would install a subpanel with the appropriate rating, move two adjoining breakers over to the other panel, install the subpanel breaker in the main panel that matches the ampacity of the subpanel, wire the two together using the appropriate or higher rating wire, and install the thre 40Amp breakers. I suggest reading through the NFPA's NECcode book. You can create an account on the site and read it online for free.
very good teacher
Thank you!
Fourth and last did you notice how hard it was to put the aluminum in the breaker?? It's too much wire
out of curiosity...why do you want the neutral and ground to be floating in a sub panel, but you often see them bonded (either by bar or screw) in the main?
Thank you.... It is covered under Objectionable Currents in the NFPAs NEC, which is free to read on their site.
@@UDoIt2 oh I know I have always heard about running all grounds. Back to one location (keeping them separate until the end), but I always thought you wanted to keep that separation all the way yo esrt ground
What would you have done if the neutral wire is too large for the neutral bus bar? (That’s my problem)
They have adapters that go from larger guage to two or three stubs that will fit in the holes of the neutral bar.
Neutral lug adapter Square D QO70ANCP is an example
question hope u get back to me i have a 220 volt wire coming off a panel that was meant for a hot tub can i use a sub panel to wire a few new outlets in the same room to support 2 treadmills by any chance
You mixed in 220V wire and tread mills in the same question. Ignoring the 200V wire yes you can wire up a sub panel to the main panel to give you extra breakers slots. You need to make sure you follow the NEC rules for connecting a sub panel, which includes the amps used compared to the primary, the distance between panel and sub panel and how many breakers you want. To properly wire a sub panel you will need 4 wires, ground, neutral, and two hots and all wires need to meet or exceed the desired amerage to be used in the subpanel. The breaker dedicated to the sub panel installed in the main panel may not exceed that of the sub panel"s rating. I recommend consulting a licensed electrician and you local code enforcement.
To all those watching this video, please check with your local AHJ or inspection department to see if you can legally install a panel and feeder. Most areas you are allowed to take a test. If you pass you are allowed to do the work, and it MUST be inspected. After reading many of the questions and some replies, there is a good reason for these laws and inspections. I worked for electrical contractors designing electrical systems for more than 30 years and I am a PE. I have seen some very scary installs. By the way, without an inspection, your home insurance may pay nothing if your work causes the fire and was not inspected.
So true Thank you for this comment!
How many breakers can you put in the other box the new one
You can load it up. However, the breaker should not exceed the rating of the box. Really, this sub panel is only for segmenting. I didn't add any additional square footage to the house. The wiring was done wierdly. It went through in one room to another room to the outside. So I split up those branches in the room that we remodeled into separate wiring. I also ran a dedicated line for smoke detectors. And within the garage I added separate branches for outets, lighting and garage door opener. It is best to read the NFPA's NEC guidelines prior to working on this so you understand the restrictions.
Hi I’m install 125 amp sub panel to 200 amp main what breaker I need to feed sub panel 200amp or 100amp?
I couldn't find anything on this in the NEC. There are a few things to check on in the NEC but my strong recommendation is to read through the NFPA 70 NEC National Electrical Code prior to performing any work. I also suggest you consult a licensed electrician and also consult your code enforcement officer regarding your overall plan. Please pay attention to the section on objectionable currents in section 250.6 (it's worth sitting through several of Mike Holt's YT videos on this topic), also pay attention to section 250.122. Note that a sub-panel as we know it is a feeder panelboard and a main panel is a panelboard. Check if aluminum is permitted in your municipality as well otherwise, install copper. I hope this helps. You can read the NEC on NFPA's website for free - just create a free account. They want everyone to be safe. -John
Why did you unbond the Sub Panel, is that NEC Code or a Local Code
NEC 250.6 Objectionable Current covers this. The problem with leaving neutral and ground connected in the sub panel is that there is a current path through ground back to the main panel. You never want ground to be a current path. Neutral is the current path. In the main panel they are connected together. If you connect the bond screw and put a current meter around the ground wire you would measure some return current through the ground wire. Remove the screw and you will not (well, very negligible). I was using a main panel for my sub-panel, which has the bonding screw. In a true sub panel the bonding screw is not present (neutral is separate from ground).
Thanks for replying,, agreed,, as to some of the comments about cleaning up the Main Panel, sometimes its not that easy to straighten up the old wiring in an existing Panel, you did a good job., also some local regs will only let you Permit a sub, but not a Main replacement, Mains usually can only be done by a Licensed Elect.
Hmmm .... Under what conditions would you leave the bonding screw in? (or why does the screw exist?)
And when you tied into your main panel it looks like you attached both the ground wire and neutral to the same bar... (I could be wrong.)
U Do It On this point, as a way to remember, I tell people to think of everything that comes out of one breaker of the main panel (including a su panel) as one big power strip). That seems to clear up this neutral/ground bonding question in their minds as it looks like a silly thing to do on a power strip. Well, anyway, I've found it useful.
"Under what conditions would you leave the bonding screw in?"
You should leave it in ONLY when you have a "direct to ground wire"(copper wire running to a copper ROD in the literal dirt(ground) attached to the ground bar of the panel.
To do that to a sub-panel effectively create parallel main boxes.
If you are using a main panel as a subpanel (i.e., one that does not have separated ground and neutral bars, this would be what you want to do (ADD the "direct to ground wire" - usually soft(i.e., annealed) #8 bare copper and you want to run it to the grounding rod - don't simply jump it over to the "direct to ground wire" of the main box )
This is to preserve the "path of least resistance" which is what saves your life when an appliance shorts out and you are holding it :-0)
So I had a sub panel added to my garage, the electrician crossed A phase with the neutral everything on B phase had 240volts on it, why didn't the braker trip.
What brand and model number panel did you use for the upgrade?
Hello Emanuele, For more details about installing the sub-panel, what tools and materials were used, and frequently asked questions please visit this U Do It™️ article: udoit.me/how-to-install-an-electric-sub-panel This article has all of the details for my particular installation. It is recommended that you consult a licensed electrician. - John
wouldnt have been easier to run the wire up from the bottom yes or no ty
Thank you for the comment! I assume you are referring to the 2-0 wire entering the main panel. I think it would have been easier to do it that way. I wouldn't have needed to bend the wire 360 degrees (a bend to the right and a bend to the left) within the panel. It would have required less space. Instead it just would have needed two 90 degree bends to the breaker and straight up and 90 to the ground/neutral bars. I could still do this. I think I have enough wire where I could bring it in from the bottom. Thank you for watching.
great....... thanx for ur comment
That main panel wiring looks like Ramen Noodles
IMO this is typical of this era (70s) at least in my area of New Jersey.
🤣🤣🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for the video. I think you could use 1/0 AWG aluminum rather than 2/0 in this case for 100amp circuit
Thank you!
I think its best to use 2/0 wire for state code cause I think with 1/0 wires u need to run it though something
@@vincemilton2003 I'm in NC, sometimes local jurisdictions do go beyond NEC code or state code, but in my case for 100a sub panel I used (permitted and inspected) 1/0 aluminum ground rated individual wires for burying underground in a 24" trench from crawlspace to garage. These had to be in sch80 electric pvc conduit when buried: 2 hot, 1 neutral, and 1 ground, which could be smaller gauge. Under the crawlspace, I have a junction box, and transition to combined sleeved cable with big ol insulated mechanical connectors. This SER cable did not have to be in a conduit as it was fire rated (technically the same individual XHHW-2 wire sleeves as outside, with fire rated outside sleeve I guess, didn't make sense but oh well), just had to be secured every 2.5 feet I believe until it hits my other wall that goes through the wall to my main panel on the outside.
@@clavicus ook I'm in CT where if the wire is under 14 gauge you need a condoit I was told cause I'm adding on a sub panel in my basement and I was told it need a condoit
@@vincemilton2003 I wonder also if crawl space and basements might have different requirements since basements are where things are stored and you may be swinging stuff around and could hit a cable, but in crawl spaces they aren't meant to be occupied by people or storage etc
Why would you install a main panel as your sub panel? The feeder circuit originates on a breaker in the main panel. You should use a main lug only panel for the sub-panel.
is there a reason you can't put the anti-ox into the lugs?
You could! But it definitely has to coat the aluminum wire.
@@UDoIt2 Gotcha, anything and everything aluminum and mating needs a coat.
Thanks!
Technically antiox is supposed to be worked into the aluminum with a wire brush. You are also supposed to torque the screws down to specific amounts to as to not crush the conductor but still be tight enough. But alas nothing is black and white. NEC doesn't even mention antiox except as a group and not about application requirements and todays AL wiring is supposed to not even need it, not that I would skip it. Its cheap and simple, so why not. And finally there are some things that come with antiox in them connector themselves so all you need to do is insert the conductor and tighten. Why oh why can't things be more straightforward...:-)