Could you make a shot calling guide KarQ? I feel like lots of people don't understand what to shot call especially depending on what hero they are playing.
Idk if this counts as shot calling, but it really drives me wild when someone says "[insert hero here] one shot/super low", and the hero they called out is like, 50% or more hp....thats not low, and unless ur widow, its not a one shot. STOP IT
There was even a time where you wouldn't get kicked for inactivity.. Laying in a bush, being all sexy while contesting, enemy team in despair cus they think game broke. Those were the days man
Good. As fun as it was to make this for content I think bringing it some attention will help move the it higher on the priority list. There's no way they aren't aware of it... it's likely it wasn't much of a complaint so it wasn't that important... until I showed up and made their jobs harder LOL
I mean you say that, but say for Lijiang Control Center, it could well be like: "Oh shit I knew I forgot something" Since people often don't complain about that map with it being one of the more well liked ones
I'm the lucio that stands on the drum in busan to contest lolol. Always feels good when the enemy team doesn't think to look up and they just scramble around the point trying to find the last person after a team loss while just stalling up another 10+% control
10:28 boy, you can see exactly where the guy drawing this stain stopped caring. He started in the lower left corner, then proceeded around clockwise. Right about when he got to the upper right corner, the boss looked over his shoulder and called him a slowpoke, or maybe he looked up at the clock and saw 4:50. At that point, he copy-pasted the line from the left onto the right (without mirroring, obviously), put in 1 more coordinate, and called it a day.
HOLY MOLY you’ve really outdone yourselves ! KarQ you are Fitzy and the extended Overwatch community are a godsend to us players. The information you put out is an equaliser for never players against veteran experience and almost an unfair advantage if you’re brand new to the game.
I like how I watched this and was like, "I'm not going to need to know this." Then I play on Hanamura and lose because I was in the dead spot on the second point.
Honestly, I can understand how they made the borders. They took a line tool and traced out a little object around the point. And then filled that closed space with "capture when player stands here" code. That's why round points look janky, and if you notice when they do trace around a map, it's only in straight lines. What I wanna understand is the significant difference between maps. It's like all maps were made by two people; one with good communication with the art director and one without.
Thats why people are always saying "I was totally touching point how was I not contesting?" it's just bc certain maps have pretty shit boundary markers
15:22 Technically circular control points should be easier to handle since the distance between the center and the boundary is constant, so you just have to check if the distance between the player and the center is less than the radius.
That's what I was gonna say! Circles and spheres may be impossible to perfectly or efficiently emulate with points and lines, but they're extremely efficient and easy to implement, seeing as a circle only stores 3 values: 2 for the X and Y coordinates of the center (spheres also have a Z value, but no control point floats so it might have a height instead and be a cylinder) and the radius (distance from the edge to the center)
Thanks for bringing it attention to this and creating the video too! I think this is going to help me panic a little less and maybe contest a little more safely on some of the maps when most of my team abandons me to chase someone. 😂 (It's been happening a lot more than it used to lately.... 😭)
I think the Lijiang control center lines are like that because way back in the beta, it had no walls, instead there were a whole bunch of pillar things surrounding the point. There is actually a video on Seagull's channel that shows what it used to look like. I believe the video's called Seagull "POV mixup vs C9"
Yo Karq, another underrated tank combo could be hammond and orisa, "stop drop and roll". Hammond goes for back line but swings a bit over the heads of the enemy just as an orisa's halt pulls up the back line, sending the supports and dps over the enemy tanks' heads and most importantly, shields.
15:21, not really KarQ, the way we were making additional circular points in workshop, with my friend, was simply by setting a central point co-ordinates and then calculating the distance of a player from that point, which resulted in sphere, but it's easy to modify for cylinder. Pythagorean theorem is nothing too difficult to calculate. So the actual reason for circular points to be so weird, I'd guess is that they built some tool for irregularly shaped points, that gave them a lot of freedom (though, as You proved, not really used for precision) and then wanted to keep it consistent with all points instead of calculating circular points in an entirely separate way.
8:32 the team on the left would have to get to the lighthouse quicker in order to contest because the objective area is smaller on their side. This gives the right side team an unfair advantage. Let me rephrase this: multiple maps are designed to give one side an unfair advantage. Including mirrored maps.
I think the differences in visual vs actual boundaries are used to make the player perceive they’re on the point even if the center of their model isn’t within the visual boundaries. Sort of a “foot in the door” type of deal
Regarding the Volskaya dead zone, that is probably there to prevent heroes from touching the point between the two ledges. A hero like genji or dva per se would probably be able to stall for a good amount of time just by jumping between those two ledges. Just my thoughts on it.
You should make a video on the ranges / hit boxes of various ultimate's. Such as the actual cone of earth shatter, range of a dragonblade swipe, actual AOE of being picked up by Sigma ( the in game representation seems off), etc.
Honestly, it makes sense that anubis' capture points are so jank. It's one of the first maps that were developed in the game and the team was likely still learning the engine when making it Same could be said about many of the launch maps, but not to the same extent
Circular hitboxes and collision is actually very easy as its a simple formula (its a distance function). The reason people think its complicated is when they get stuck in the thought process of lines and connections making up the shape.
Hey we should tweet this vid at Blizzard or whoever to get some of these fixed. I wouldn't be suprised if the team just didn't know about some of these. The Ilios and Volskaia ones are actually game impacting.
In terms of game design, having the hit volumes be bigger than the visual is probably more correct. Players assume that if their foot is touching the point, they should be contesting, while the engine probably only looks at your character's center of mass/transform position. A bigger hit volume helps to hide that discrepancy. The ones where the hit volume is smaller than the visual marker are pretty bad, though. Those are also the maps that tend to have those "wtf, I swear I'm on the point" moments the most.
I bet that for lijang control center that the capture point used to be designed different then when they changed to a simple circle they just kept the old capture area geometry thinking it would be okay since the indicated capture boundaries still technically tell you where you can stand to capture.
That railway on kings row second extends all the way and with most characters you can sneak up and delay for a few seconds if the opponent isn’t skilled enough to look for them. My team thought of using that pathway for a bastion strat but plans never came to fruition.
7:14 "imagine playing and trying to touch point last second, going mid air and getting screwed because of it" That explains so much when ive failed to touch leaping in as winston before. That dead zone arch literally screws winston so hard lmao. But seeing it visually makes so much more sense of it, thanks.
There’s a tic-rate detection in the NetCode for your toon being in the air and entering the objective’s area. Don’t jump or fly onto the point if you can help it.
I have a question regarding Illios Well: Can you contest the point above and/or inside the well (as Lucio, Mercy, Pharah or Wrecking ball for example)? Thank you for the insightful video :)
KarQ what are the mechanics of following example: ball can spin to win on hanamura second around back pillar/wall while contesting on point only 50% of time. Rest of the time he's behind/off the point. There must be a time delay in resuming capturing, do you know how this works? Great video! Will be hiding in those bushes :D
From just looking at this, I'd have to guess that the game engine uses cubes as capture areas, and points like the circle one on Oasis are made of 4 cubes, with some of them rotated to get that octagon shape
Scientists agree that Torbjorn should be used as a new way of measuring height 🔨
How did you comment 13 minutes ago what
how tall is mount everest in torbjorns
@@jucifruit1293 🤫
@@bozoben Should be around somewhere 6150 Torbjorns
Hey we are the overwatch community, we casually measure height in Torbjorn and time in akm blades
"Wtf I swear I was on the point!"
Can u explain to me how you still make videos without run out of ideas?
Bulldog Sagel
lol! sure he was the "1 tip 4 all heroes" guy, but that wasn't his limits!
1 tip for every payload
Did someone inform blizz about that, looks kinda dumb/unfair on mirrored maps. I'd like this fixed.
Can't Ball hang from the middle of the ceiling and contest on Hanamura second point?
WAIT I'M NOT ON IT, WHAT???????????
Sad to hear that it happened, Fitzy.
Ice cube not happy :'(
😂😂😂😂😂
YES
Meanwhile the tracer a mile away contesting
the existence of workshop means that karq has finally reached his true potential
this isn't even my final form
Yeah they're still adding things to the workshop.
He’s only harnessed 2% if his true power
@@KarQ oh shit
Lucio overwatch
so awesome and insightful, thank you patriq and fitzyhere community
❤️
coggi
@@ItsMisterGoob helo google
Could you make a shot calling guide KarQ? I feel like lots of people don't understand what to shot call especially depending on what hero they are playing.
trust me it gets worse the further you go up to the point of 0 calls
sure
@@KarQ KarQoat
@@KarQ Sounds fun to watch.
Idk if this counts as shot calling, but it really drives me wild when someone says "[insert hero here] one shot/super low", and the hero they called out is like, 50% or more hp....thats not low, and unless ur widow, its not a one shot. STOP IT
10:33 omg 3400 hours later and I've never noticed the 2 plants missing on the other side
I didn't either dont worry
10:51 - Lijiang Night Market if anyone was wondering, you can't contest the point on the two window where normally sym puts her tp (just tested it)
Right I actually forgot to put that in the vid, it was actually outlined and documented in the workshop tool and the site
@@KarQ oh nice
18:48 back in my day, we called these “sexy junkrat spots”
Aahhh I remember those...
There was even a time where you wouldn't get kicked for inactivity.. Laying in a bush, being all sexy while contesting, enemy team in despair cus they think game broke. Those were the days man
Aaaaaaaah good old days....
Old school Muselk strat, mad nostalgia
@@unknowndivision7962 Same, I hope he manages to climb out of that hole.
I was in that torb tower. Been waiting to see that in a video. That was a good time.
Really? Time flies. That was from summer of 2018
Boundaries aren't just useful for Overwatch. Knowing boundaries is important for maintaining healthy interpersonal relationships.
True
its also good for maintaining proper social distancing!
That volskaya one for the second point is really game breaking honestly
Next patch : all points are adjusted to their actual sizes
Good. As fun as it was to make this for content I think bringing it some attention will help move the it higher on the priority list. There's no way they aren't aware of it... it's likely it wasn't much of a complaint so it wasn't that important... until I showed up and made their jobs harder LOL
@@KarQ let's hope a new engine in OW 2 allow them to make circles and not octogons :D
@@KarQ This honestly makes it understandable when you are about to reach the point the last second but you dont get overtime. Thanks for the video!
I mean you say that, but say for Lijiang Control Center, it could well be like:
"Oh shit I knew I forgot something"
Since people often don't complain about that map with it being one of the more well liked ones
@@KarQ If you don’t who will?
Blizzard should really fix the weird borders I feel like objective borders are so overlooked
I want to see the developer of the boundries of Anubis seeing his messed up work being exposed :D
It's probably a multiple team effort that slipped through the cracks. Just an oversight but hopefully will be fixed eventually
I think volskaya's 2nd point floating dead zone is worse, its a CRIME to 2CP maps
I'm the lucio that stands on the drum in busan to contest lolol. Always feels good when the enemy team doesn't think to look up and they just scramble around the point trying to find the last person after a team loss while just stalling up another 10+% control
oo this is super useful - thanks for this!
10:28 boy, you can see exactly where the guy drawing this stain stopped caring. He started in the lower left corner, then proceeded around clockwise. Right about when he got to the upper right corner, the boss looked over his shoulder and called him a slowpoke, or maybe he looked up at the clock and saw 4:50. At that point, he copy-pasted the line from the left onto the right (without mirroring, obviously), put in 1 more coordinate, and called it a day.
That's so interesting, I am so impressed about the amount of dead spots. I can't imagine how hard was to do this video, great job
KarQ: I don’t recommend using this spots in competitive
Me: *Hold my SR
KarQ's voice is just satisfying to listen to.
Literally all I had to say :D
HOLY MOLY you’ve really outdone yourselves !
KarQ you are Fitzy and the extended Overwatch community are a godsend to us players. The information you put out is an equaliser for never players against veteran experience and almost an unfair advantage if you’re brand new to the game.
I like how I watched this and was like, "I'm not going to need to know this." Then I play on Hanamura and lose because I was in the dead spot on the second point.
Honestly, I can understand how they made the borders. They took a line tool and traced out a little object around the point. And then filled that closed space with "capture when player stands here" code. That's why round points look janky, and if you notice when they do trace around a map, it's only in straight lines.
What I wanna understand is the significant difference between maps. It's like all maps were made by two people; one with good communication with the art director and one without.
I feel like a rly important place u should've added on anubis is the little high ground area behind mei at 5:20
Great vid anyways:D
Thats why people are always saying "I was totally touching point how was I not contesting?" it's just bc certain maps have pretty shit boundary markers
This is such a good workshop feature thanks for sharing this KarQ
Your videos are super helpful, thanks so much for making them. The visuals are helpful too! And thank you Patriq!
15:22 Technically circular control points should be easier to handle since the distance between the center and the boundary is constant, so you just have to check if the distance between the player and the center is less than the radius.
That's what I was gonna say! Circles and spheres may be impossible to perfectly or efficiently emulate with points and lines, but they're extremely efficient and easy to implement, seeing as a circle only stores 3 values: 2 for the X and Y coordinates of the center (spheres also have a Z value, but no control point floats so it might have a height instead and be a cylinder) and the radius (distance from the edge to the center)
Terrific work both of you. Very useful info presented amazingly as per. Thank you
Your videos are always so well made I always feel like binging all of them in one afternoon. Good shit
This is legit one of the best ow youtube content videos made ever
Lol your joking right? Right........?
Jeff kaplan: my secrets!! DAMN YOU KARQ!!!
This was very informative, kudos to Patriq. Thanks for making it a guide
Thanks for bringing it attention to this and creating the video too! I think this is going to help me panic a little less and maybe contest a little more safely on some of the maps when most of my team abandons me to chase someone. 😂 (It's been happening a lot more than it used to lately.... 😭)
4:03 "This backside is actually pretty decent. "Well... thank you I work out.
400K subs it has been a journey watching you your content is amazing and i wouldn't do anything to change that
wow I remember the village point when sleepy and Xqc were in a tourney together and xqc couldnt touch as rein
14:00 u just made me remember plays back when this map wasnt out yet
i just checked and ive been playing for 5 years and never played competitively
Nice one. I'm expecting some lines in patch notes soon "fixed capture point layouts" :)
Torb hight is the real way to measure things.
0:15 EXCUSE ME JEFF THERE IS PEOPLE LOSING GAMES
Wow, totally worth the rework in a couple of maps like Illios.
Nice video, thank you for the info
Cool video idea:
1 widow angle on every map
I didnt even notice that point a anubis is not a square, i played this game for 4 years now, the hell
Wow, such a good mode for example! Thanks Patricq! Also blizzard really needs to udpate some of those maps.
I think the Lijiang control center lines are like that because way back in the beta, it had no walls, instead there were a whole bunch of pillar things surrounding the point. There is actually a video on Seagull's channel that shows what it used to look like. I believe the video's called Seagull "POV mixup vs C9"
Thank you so much! This answers so many confusing moments!!
y'know gotta say, even though overwatch has had a.....tough.....sort of a year actual comp wise, the creator content is at its peak right now!
Dead spots: Exist
Blizzard: Yeah, put some plants on that bad boy
Video released 3 days ago and there are already 10 Korean contenders teams who have developed entire strategies around the dead zones.
Yo Karq, another underrated tank combo could be hammond and orisa, "stop drop and roll". Hammond goes for back line but swings a bit over the heads of the enemy just as an orisa's halt pulls up the back line, sending the supports and dps over the enemy tanks' heads and most importantly, shields.
Haven’t played over watch for years and still for some reason watched the full thing lol
15:21, not really KarQ, the way we were making additional circular points in workshop, with my friend, was simply by setting a central point co-ordinates and then calculating the distance of a player from that point, which resulted in sphere, but it's easy to modify for cylinder. Pythagorean theorem is nothing too difficult to calculate. So the actual reason for circular points to be so weird, I'd guess is that they built some tool for irregularly shaped points, that gave them a lot of freedom (though, as You proved, not really used for precision) and then wanted to keep it consistent with all points instead of calculating circular points in an entirely separate way.
8:32 the team on the left would have to get to the lighthouse quicker in order to contest because the objective area is smaller on their side. This gives the right side team an unfair advantage.
Let me rephrase this:
multiple maps are designed to give one side an unfair advantage. Including mirrored maps.
I think the differences in visual vs actual boundaries are used to make the player perceive they’re on the point even if the center of their model isn’t within the visual boundaries. Sort of a “foot in the door” type of deal
KarQ, that's amazing video!
That boom head wait deadspot reference was hilarious
been waiting for this one
Great and really useful. Also, Sexy Junkrat lives again!
Regarding the Volskaya dead zone, that is probably there to prevent heroes from touching the point between the two ledges. A hero like genji or dva per se would probably be able to stall for a good amount of time just by jumping between those two ledges. Just my thoughts on it.
You should make a video on the ranges / hit boxes of various ultimate's. Such as the actual cone of earth shatter, range of a dragonblade swipe, actual AOE of being picked up by Sigma ( the in game representation seems off), etc.
That Rialto point a spot is hilarious to use occasionally. Especially in Mystery Heroes when i get Tracer or Junkrat to start on Defense.
Honestly, it makes sense that anubis' capture points are so jank. It's one of the first maps that were developed in the game and the team was likely still learning the engine when making it
Same could be said about many of the launch maps, but not to the same extent
Blizzard needs to know about this asap!
Could you do a team composition video and priority target call (depends on the composition), something like that?
Huge, bet this leads blizz to clean these up a bit in the future.
Some of the dead zones are intentional I believe. Like the dead zones on Nubani, they don't want people to be able to hide in the grass
Key takeaway - stay away from sides when contesting
At 7:15 "Bizarre and unaccepable." AGREED
What are the boundaries for the tiebreaker objectives in the Elimination maps?
Circular hitboxes and collision is actually very easy as its a simple formula (its a distance function). The reason people think its complicated is when they get stuck in the thought process of lines and connections making up the shape.
Idk why but using tracer to shimmy on and off point made me laugh 😂. Thanks!!
You should do a 1 hero tip for every map series. Just an idea
Thank you for your effort!
Hey we should tweet this vid at Blizzard or whoever to get some of these fixed. I wouldn't be suprised if the team just didn't know about some of these. The Ilios and Volskaia ones are actually game impacting.
KarQ straight up exposing the dev team and their shoddy capture boundaries
I remmeber when you were able to contest the payload on Route 66 on top of the store near the corner
In terms of game design, having the hit volumes be bigger than the visual is probably more correct. Players assume that if their foot is touching the point, they should be contesting, while the engine probably only looks at your character's center of mass/transform position. A bigger hit volume helps to hide that discrepancy.
The ones where the hit volume is smaller than the visual marker are pretty bad, though. Those are also the maps that tend to have those "wtf, I swear I'm on the point" moments the most.
I bet that for lijang control center that the capture point used to be designed different then when they changed to a simple circle they just kept the old capture area geometry thinking it would be okay since the indicated capture boundaries still technically tell you where you can stand to capture.
Pog that was super interesting!
Half the video KarQ sounds like LockPickingLawyer 🤔
Good video as per usual.
You need to promote KarQives more! I've watched your videos for a few years now and didn't know about that channel.
That railway on kings row second extends all the way and with most characters you can sneak up and delay for a few seconds if the opponent isn’t skilled enough to look for them. My team thought of using that pathway for a bastion strat but plans never came to fruition.
You’re so calming omg 😀
This is an amazingly important video, and it requires a follow even though you don’t pronounce your name “Kark.”
7:14 "imagine playing and trying to touch point last second, going mid air and getting screwed because of it"
That explains so much when ive failed to touch leaping in as winston before. That dead zone arch literally screws winston so hard lmao. But seeing it visually makes so much more sense of it, thanks.
It would be awesome if you could do a one translocater spot for every map for sombra!!
Omg man this is amazingly
I don’t understand how KarQ keeps coming up with ideas on this series..
I thought this would’ve ended a while ago, but I’m happy it hasn’t 🥰
There’s a tic-rate detection in the NetCode for your toon being in the air and entering the objective’s area. Don’t jump or fly onto the point if you can help it.
I have a question regarding Illios Well: Can you contest the point above and/or inside the well (as Lucio, Mercy, Pharah or Wrecking ball for example)?
Thank you for the insightful video :)
Honestly I don’t mind if the capture point is bigger than indicated. But I don’t like it is it is smaller than indicated
KarQ what are the mechanics of following example: ball can spin to win on hanamura second around back pillar/wall while contesting on point only 50% of time. Rest of the time he's behind/off the point. There must be a time delay in resuming capturing, do you know how this works? Great video! Will be hiding in those bushes :D
That explains everything, why the people wrote "I was stepping on and wonder why no content." It seems, they were on red spot.
From just looking at this, I'd have to guess that the game engine uses cubes as capture areas, and points like the circle one on Oasis are made of 4 cubes, with some of them rotated to get that octagon shape
I don't know why but this video makes me feel claustrophobic.
I actually like when you swear, it's so funny
14:00 No that's wrong because I remember it being teased at blizzcon and released around the New Year/January period
Junkertown has a bush right next to the first left house near first spawn. Behind the little staircase.
im never going to unsee the 2 plants being only on one side of Ilios well... damn you karq (excellent video though)