I agree with the hard panning on rhythm guitars, but I will also apply pan automation on them and narrow them in the verses ever so slightly, then when the chorus hits, I’ll automate them to jump back fully panned wide. It makes choruses really pop! Great vid as ever
The last song I was working on, I left out a lead part because I just couldn't get it to sit right. I was doing the complete opposite of your compression and eq. Narrow eq for rhythm and brighter lead. Pumping compression on rhythm and less dynamics on lead...I was calling the song finished, but now I'm going to have to revisit.
Actually, found out a way to make hard panned guitars sound louder in a mono speakers by modifying the Pan LAW. In reaper you can change individual channels to boost the middle and it's only noticeable when mono playback.
I'm relatively new to branching into the Metal sound and I've been struggling to keep the presence of my rhythm and tighten up my leads, and this video blew my mind. I always think of lead instruments as having the high end, and so I've been cranking the prescence on my lead, and it just sounds ear-piercing--and darkening up my rhythm, and it just sounds like mud. Now, I'll be sure to focus my leads into that midrange and let the rhythms sparkle on the sides. Thanks!
Dude I tried a couple maybe tree things you said before and they really worked . My leads now sit in a nice pocket, just to the right, just by a mid bump700hz, a bit of stereo delay and lo-hi passes at 250hz/4k.. Rock on.
As always - great tutorial! But this time I'd like to add a thing: when I started mixing back in the day (some twenty years ago...) I really struggled with solo guitars: should I pan them? If so, where? What if I have two guitarists, each with his own solo? Well, to make this a short story: I was given good advice by a befriended mixing engineer: "Don't touch any fader, unless you have a vision for that song!" Took me some time, before I fully understood this, but in terms of guitars, here is my takeaway: If it is one guitarist, playing a solo, I tend to leave the track in the middle - as you said yourself: let him pick up, where the singer left off. If it's two guitarists, and each is playing a solo - one is left, one is right, but never a 100% - close enough to the center, so one can tell it's clearly more left/right than the vocals, but still with a bit bleed into the opposite channel. This is also true if there is a guitar solo that suddenly breaks up in two voices or harmonies. Spreading these, so you can clearly hear them seperated, but not too far from the center does the trick for me. Other than that: the harder "the metal" the more my rythm guitars a dry - bone dry actually :)
I also like to think about lead guitar as a vocal. One thing I discovered lately is putting a multiband compressor on lead guitar and having like 4 bands active so the lead is more even: when there is a faster alternate picking part on lower strings, the lower bands keeps it from getting muddy, and when some really high notes are being played the higher bands make it so it isn't too earpiercing, and also make the guitar have more body (when the highs are compressed the lower mids have more space). I also like putting both lead and rhythm guitars to a guitar bus where I do some final touches with EQ and more importantly put a mastering compressor to make them feel more like they are in the same space. I'm not a professional or even experienced mixer by any means tho, just a hobbyist and guitarist working on my own stuff. Interested to hear your thoughts on my points!
Great video as always!! I’ve always added compression on my rhythms and I think that has been a crutch on my mixes…. There was always this weird wonkiness, that is prob the cause! I will try this later! Thanx Bobby!
I am Working on Some Symphonic Metal. This adds a whole new level of spatial and frequency challenges. Can you do a video on mixing metal with lots of synth or symphonic sounds
So I want to eventually make my own music but for now I've been focusing on guitar covers are these techniques valid with covering with the original song in the background, I have followed a few of your videos but sometimes my guitars get lost or feel thin
The problem I’m having is - I have a rhythm guitar section with only rhythm guitars (2 hard panned guitars and a bass track) then it’s followed by a layered guitar solo with the same 2 rhythm guitar tracks in the background. This solo sections volumes are sooo much higher and sounds more full due to the amount of tracks in the solo. Then when the solo is finished and it goes back to the rhythm section (2 hard panned guitars and a bass track) that rhythm section sounds every empty sounding as if i need to fill up more space in the mix. I need to figure out how to make this layered solo match the volume of the rhythm section and it’s driving me crazy. Thanks In advance
Do you send the hard panned rhythm guitar tracks and the lead to the same bus, or does the lead track go separately straight to the master bus? Thanks in advance! Great channel!
I love the smell of learning something in the morning. Regarding the compression on lead guitar, do you think it would be advisable to record the DI through a compression pedal or would you rather add it after the amp sims? Many thanks!
Definitely not, it's best to keep your DI tracks 100% clean on the way in. One thing you can do is apply a compressor plugin pre-amp sim in your DAW if you're a fan of compression driving the amp.
This is what the EHX Metal Muff pedal got totally wrong It had a boost switch to boost the highs... What it should have had was a mid boost for solos and make the pedal somehwat useful. haha
Sometimes I’ll keep the lead tracks panned center, but have them together into a bus with something inserted to widen the signal. Maybe a Dimension D or a stereo mod delay, something like that. Then I’ll narrow in the mix of the leads with the effects just a little so the leads overall are kinda nestled inside the stereo image of the rhythm guitars. Like narrowed 80% maybe. It keeps the harmonies glued together but still with some width, while not fighting the rhythm tracks. Sometimes this is totally the wrong approach, and the harmonies need to be panned opposite. Different vibes for different parts. Like you might want to hear the harmonies as separate entities, in that case I pan them out.
How would I apply these mixing tips to a band with 1 guitar player , where riffs go in and out of rhythm style mutting and lead style Is accents in the same riff. Like for example an Adam Jones style guitar player with a touch of Dime bag I can sometimes make the chugging sound good then the higher notes get lost and or vice-versa
Could you do a Video how you dial the Low End on Mixes with very Low tuned guitars? Getting an 8 String Guitar to sound great with Bass and Fast Double Kicks seems Impossible for me 😅
Cutting low end before the amp helps tighten up 8 string guitars. This is often achieved with something like a tube screamer or Fortin Grind pedal - it pushes the front of the amp but also has an appealing EQ curve, tightening the bass and enhancing pick attack. High pass your guitars around 80-100 hz. As far as bass, since you’re sharing a lot of sonic territory with the low-tuned guitars, a nice overdrive will help the bass be more audible in the mix, and use a compressor to keep it consistent and tame the lows. It also helps to “stack” your kick, bass, and guitars as far as where your high pass filters are set. Something like 40 hz for kick, 60 hz for bass, and 80 hz for guitars.
Distortion already compresses your signal. I never saw a need to compress the rhythm guitars if they have a lot of distortion on them. I do sometimes compress rhythm guitars if I feel the transients are too "pokey." This can especially happen if the guitars aren't super distorted.
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I agree with the hard panning on rhythm guitars, but I will also apply pan automation on them and narrow them in the verses ever so slightly, then when the chorus hits, I’ll automate them to jump back fully panned wide. It makes choruses really pop! Great vid as ever
personally I would automate the volume rather than the panning but it sounds like an awesome trick
@@theperiidot this too! A combo of both and the chorus makes you jump and pay attention 🙂
You got any music I can look up where this technique was used? Sounds very interesting
You can also use dual tracking during verses and then pop 2 more tracks with a slightly different eq during the chorus
This technique really helped my production. Cleaned it up and made the lead way better. Thanks Bobby!
The last song I was working on, I left out a lead part because I just couldn't get it to sit right. I was doing the complete opposite of your compression and eq. Narrow eq for rhythm and brighter lead. Pumping compression on rhythm and less dynamics on lead...I was calling the song finished, but now I'm going to have to revisit.
Actually, found out a way to make hard panned guitars sound louder in a mono speakers by modifying the Pan LAW. In reaper you can change individual channels to boost the middle and it's only noticeable when mono playback.
Multiband compression does magic on rhythm guitar palm mutes...way more natural than "regular" compression...thanks for the tips Bobby
I'm relatively new to branching into the Metal sound and I've been struggling to keep the presence of my rhythm and tighten up my leads, and this video blew my mind. I always think of lead instruments as having the high end, and so I've been cranking the prescence on my lead, and it just sounds ear-piercing--and darkening up my rhythm, and it just sounds like mud. Now, I'll be sure to focus my leads into that midrange and let the rhythms sparkle on the sides. Thanks!
Dude I tried a couple maybe tree things you said before and they really worked . My leads now sit in a nice pocket, just to the right, just by a mid bump700hz, a bit of stereo delay and lo-hi passes at 250hz/4k.. Rock on.
As always - great tutorial! But this time I'd like to add a thing: when I started mixing back in the day (some twenty years ago...) I really struggled with solo guitars: should I pan them? If so, where? What if I have two guitarists, each with his own solo? Well, to make this a short story: I was given good advice by a befriended mixing engineer: "Don't touch any fader, unless you have a vision for that song!"
Took me some time, before I fully understood this, but in terms of guitars, here is my takeaway: If it is one guitarist, playing a solo, I tend to leave the track in the middle - as you said yourself: let him pick up, where the singer left off. If it's two guitarists, and each is playing a solo - one is left, one is right, but never a 100% - close enough to the center, so one can tell it's clearly more left/right than the vocals, but still with a bit bleed into the opposite channel. This is also true if there is a guitar solo that suddenly breaks up in two voices or harmonies. Spreading these, so you can clearly hear them seperated, but not too far from the center does the trick for me. Other than that: the harder "the metal" the more my rythm guitars a dry - bone dry actually :)
I also like to think about lead guitar as a vocal. One thing I discovered lately is putting a multiband compressor on lead guitar and having like 4 bands active so the lead is more even: when there is a faster alternate picking part on lower strings, the lower bands keeps it from getting muddy, and when some really high notes are being played the higher bands make it so it isn't too earpiercing, and also make the guitar have more body (when the highs are compressed the lower mids have more space).
I also like putting both lead and rhythm guitars to a guitar bus where I do some final touches with EQ and more importantly put a mastering compressor to make them feel more like they are in the same space.
I'm not a professional or even experienced mixer by any means tho, just a hobbyist and guitarist working on my own stuff. Interested to hear your thoughts on my points!
All good tips! Thanks Bobby.
Hey Bobby, thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge and experience with us.
The best mixing info on the interweb!
I swear you post a video about the exact topics I have questions about every week 😂
Great video as always!! I’ve always added compression on my rhythms and I think that has been a crutch on my mixes…. There was always this weird wonkiness, that is prob the cause! I will try this later! Thanx Bobby!
Right on🤘🤘
Actually what an amazing video.
I'm not understanding your lead delay trick to make a hole in the center for Vox. How does a stereo delay with the right delayed open up the center?
Lol. My mixes literally are almost identical in how I do guitars. It definitely works.
I am Working on Some Symphonic Metal. This adds a whole new level of spatial and frequency challenges. Can you do a video on mixing metal with lots of synth or symphonic sounds
So I want to eventually make my own music but for now I've been focusing on guitar covers are these techniques valid with covering with the original song in the background, I have followed a few of your videos but sometimes my guitars get lost or feel thin
The problem I’m having is - I have a rhythm guitar section with only rhythm guitars (2 hard panned guitars and a bass track) then it’s followed by a layered guitar solo with the same 2 rhythm guitar tracks in the background. This solo sections volumes are sooo much higher and sounds more full due to the amount of tracks in the solo. Then when the solo is finished and it goes back to the rhythm section (2 hard panned guitars and a bass track) that rhythm section sounds every empty sounding as if i need to fill up more space in the mix. I need to figure out how to make this layered solo match the volume of the rhythm section and it’s driving me crazy. Thanks In advance
Do you send the hard panned rhythm guitar tracks and the lead to the same bus, or does the lead track go separately straight to the master bus?
Thanks in advance!
Great channel!
drums way too loud
I love the smell of learning something in the morning. Regarding the compression on lead guitar, do you think it would be advisable to record the DI through a compression pedal or would you rather add it after the amp sims? Many thanks!
Definitely not, it's best to keep your DI tracks 100% clean on the way in. One thing you can do is apply a compressor plugin pre-amp sim in your DAW if you're a fan of compression driving the amp.
@@FrightboxRecording Great! Once again, many thanks, Bobby
This is what the EHX Metal Muff pedal got totally wrong
It had a boost switch to boost the highs...
What it should have had was a mid boost for solos and make the pedal somehwat useful. haha
so how do I pan harmonized solo guitars?
I'd imagine slightly get it out of the way. 20% left 30% right whatever as long as you make space
Sometimes I’ll keep the lead tracks panned center, but have them together into a bus with something inserted to widen the signal. Maybe a Dimension D or a stereo mod delay, something like that. Then I’ll narrow in the mix of the leads with the effects just a little so the leads overall are kinda nestled inside the stereo image of the rhythm guitars. Like narrowed 80% maybe.
It keeps the harmonies glued together but still with some width, while not fighting the rhythm tracks.
Sometimes this is totally the wrong approach, and the harmonies need to be panned opposite. Different vibes for different parts. Like you might want to hear the harmonies as separate entities, in that case I pan them out.
How would I apply these mixing tips to a band with 1 guitar player , where riffs go in and out of rhythm style mutting and lead style Is accents in the same riff. Like for example an Adam Jones style guitar player with a touch of Dime bag
I can sometimes make the chugging sound good then the higher notes get lost and or vice-versa
drums way too loud
Could you do a Video how you dial the Low End on Mixes with very Low tuned guitars? Getting an 8 String Guitar to sound great with Bass and Fast Double Kicks seems Impossible for me 😅
Cutting low end before the amp helps tighten up 8 string guitars. This is often achieved with something like a tube screamer or Fortin Grind pedal - it pushes the front of the amp but also has an appealing EQ curve, tightening the bass and enhancing pick attack. High pass your guitars around 80-100 hz. As far as bass, since you’re sharing a lot of sonic territory with the low-tuned guitars, a nice overdrive will help the bass be more audible in the mix, and use a compressor to keep it consistent and tame the lows. It also helps to “stack” your kick, bass, and guitars as far as where your high pass filters are set. Something like 40 hz for kick, 60 hz for bass, and 80 hz for guitars.
Distortion already compresses your signal. I never saw a need to compress the rhythm guitars if they have a lot of distortion on them. I do sometimes compress rhythm guitars if I feel the transients are too "pokey." This can especially happen if the guitars aren't super distorted.
So check this..send your rhythm guitars to a bus and add invisible verb..and tell us!!