I appreciate the integrity Todd and NRVTA have exhibited with this video. Uniform standards are important. While some may not agree with the method or controls impose by the standard, in this case, the NEC, but the standard ensures consistent, reliable service that will not cause harm when used properly. The choice to delete the comments that do not follow the standard, or provide misinformation, are also quite bold. After all, there are no standards in social media. It's just the right thing to do.
And THIS is why I am choosing to attend NRVTA in Jan 2022.I am attending all 5 weeks with the solar add on week. You guys are the best. Also, I am going to be documenting my journey on my RUclips channel SaltyVetAdventures. Thank you for your wonderful videos.
Todd, The new part of NEC551 Part IV D is saying that the RVs being manufactured must now have a reverse polarity visual and audible warning signal installed. I’m not sure which company started manufacturing them and got them in the 2020NEC, but I’ve got every book from 1981 to 2017, Retired in 2018, and that is how some devices get passed by that code making panel. As you said, reverse polarity by itself is not going to cause hot skin. Your example of a screw in the Romex is correct. But a screw into a hot and into the frame, is a direct short. Even with reverse polarity, still a direct short. If there were no equipment ground, reverse polarity and a screw from the hot to the frame, then you would have hot skin. If you bond N&G in an RV and plug into reverse polarity receptacle, the breaker will trip as direct short. This is not the condition the NEC is about.
Finally got time to watch this. Hadn't read comments from part 1 and was surprised by Todd's demeanor. As I continued watching, it quickly became apparent that that change was appropriate for such a life and death discussion. Thank you for taking the time to clarify the sources for the recommendations from real code. Serious discussion for a serious topic. Great video. THX.
Cliff notes… houses don’t move unless you live on a fault line… campers shake a lot.. wires get cut… mainly due to harmonic vibrations…. Sometime also caused by rodents… so yes an ems would be a good thing … just like natural immunos
I was in the Natural Gas Industry for 20+ years, ppl always tried to tell me how to do my job. I would always say “Get To It” I will call the fire department. Great job Todd!
Thanks for clarifying for those who needed it....I have discussed this with a Master Electrician and he said the same thing you did... different words but same message. FYI ...Love your tips and yes I want to learn more and when we can make it happen, I will be sitting in your class room🙂🙂‼️
Thanks for the information. The EMS or monitoring device is a good first step to safely get your rig set up for a safe camping experience. Yes, other things can go wrong but catching an error at the point of connection should be the goal.
hi Todd, i was confused on my camper that showed that both common and hot side had power but the breaker did not show this. i suspected that the cable was compromised so i rewired the plug , your explanation of hot skin clears that up. thanks
I think it's important to mention that there are 30 amp and 50 amp RV outlet testers on the market now that cost $50ish or so. Much cheaper than a protector (but obviously don't fault open), but better and much safer than someone who doesn't have experience with electricity and multimeters trying to probe an outlet in the rain and the dark. I firmly believe that the electrical code should require GFCI breakers for RV outlets.
Great info. I had a hot skin issue a couple weeks ago and texted one of your graduates for advice. 12 hours later I was in a bay at my rigs manufacturer getting the power cord, reel and entire assembly replaced. Thanks for teaching great info and putting out knowledgeable techs ….I need to attend your classes.
That part about a screw or something piercing a wire was something I hoped you'd cover, I listened on the scanner one night as a man down the street died, when they put stucco on his new house, a staple hit a hot wire, he was trying to work on his garage door opener, long story short the track for the opener had contacted the same chicken wire that was holding on the stucco, a volt meter would have saved his life, he got a mild shock, checked that he breaker was off, the next time he grabbed that track he couldn't let go, sad ending to doing things yourself
Mine did that when I plugged it in, my dog got his nose zapped one day and I couldn't figure why he was so scared to get near it then one day I crawled under it to do something and touched my forehead and bzzzzzt! I tightened all of the neutrals and grounds and it stopped. Just went out and checked, was down to 450mv
are the neutral and ground connected in anyway in an rv like in a house? i would think so because the rv is not grounded except through the power cord.
Excellent video and follows the laws! But I have a serious concern about axles on RVs VERSES actually trailer GVW RATINGS! FOR example my FIFTH WHEEL Toy Hauler per label says max weight is 14000 lbs but as I looked into my AXLES and the labels in them ( tandem axles) the label says 6000 lbs! Simple math 6000 × 2 = 12000lbs! Now I bought toy hauler with a 12' garage, which I was very clear on to have enough room to put my HONDA GOLDWING in along with my deluxe timeout motorcycle camper trailer in! Motorcycle dry weight is around 800lbs camper trailer empty stock weight is around 250lbs, plus I had washer dryer set installed in garage area! Humm simple math says I'm overloading at least the real axle! That's also without put fuel in gas tank ( 40 gal tank)on this toy hauler! So to me RV industry is lying about actually GVW RATINGS a camper can actually haul! When I asked dealership about THIS their explanation was that the RV manufacturer industry ALSO adds the tongue weight that frame was built for! NOW RO ME AND LITS OF EXPERIENCE PULLING ALL TYPES OF TRAILERS, HORSE/ LIVESTOCK AND ALL TYPES OF COMMERCIAL TRAILERS, BECAUSE I HAVE A CDL LICENSE AND I AM A COMMERCIAL HAULER FOR WORK! NONE OF THIS ADDS UP! I'M VERY UPSET AND REALLY WANT AN HONEST ANSWER AND TO SEE GVW RATINGS ON RVS CORRECTED OR PROPER TRUE AXLES INSTALLED
I suggest going to the NRVTA website, about us or contact us tab and shoot them an email. RUclips comments section is not exactly the best place to look for an answer to this type of question. To be clear I am just a random person on the internet, I am not affiliated with them, just throwing out a suggestion. I would love for them to make a video on this as I see your point, logically what you are saying makes sense, I am not qualified in any way to talk about it but I am interested.
I just bought a surge protector for my RV. Used it for the first time at the campground and got an error code so we didn't use the protector for that trip. I got home and plugged it in and got the same error code. I looked it up and it says Reverse Polarity. I have never been shocked nor do I seem to have any electrical problems with my trailer. Please advise,
I'm confused. I've consulted NFPA 70 before, but AFAIK it's an advisory for local building codes. The last time I checked, an RV is an automobile, not a building. Why is the NEC the bible, and nothing from the Society of Automotive Engineers or ASE applies? I know that some parts of an RV resemble home construction, but looking similar and being exactly alike are two very different things! For example, houses typically don't have 12V DC electrical systems, and don't ride on insulating rubber tires.
Hi Stingernews1, That's a good observation. Automobiles do not have 120v so SAE would have no guidance on the largest systems: 120v, propane, plumbing, and so on. SAE is also not the governing body that the RVIA requires manufacturers to comply with, it's NFPA 1192.
@@NationalRVTrainingAcademy thanks! I'll have to get a copy. While my car doesn't have 120VAC, just about every new car I see does, so someone is writing standards for those inverters.
I'm trying to understand something really quick. When you get shocked by hot skin at a campground, you're completing the circuit back to the source, right? Would this be the correct order: The electricity is traveling from the RV hot skin, through you, through the ground, back to the pedestal where it rides up a possible ground rod (or the case of the pedestal itself), through the ground wire back to the main service panel where it meets back up with the neutral at the bonding point. Or does the electricity simply want to pass from the hot skin, through your body, and then to the earth because there's such a difference in voltage -- and completing the circuit has nothing to do with it?
@@NationalRVTrainingAcademy Thank you for the reply. I'm assuming my hypothetical situation could be plausible? Everywhere I looked from a particular and outspoken internet personality on the matter just made it seem like the electricity wanted to get back to the earth just for the heck of it. It was driving me nuts because unless electricity changed, I figured it had to go back to the source.
I appreciate the integrity Todd and NRVTA have exhibited with this video. Uniform standards are important. While some may not agree with the method or controls impose by the standard, in this case, the NEC, but the standard ensures consistent, reliable service that will not cause harm when used properly.
The choice to delete the comments that do not follow the standard, or provide misinformation, are also quite bold. After all, there are no standards in social media. It's just the right thing to do.
And THIS is why I am choosing to attend NRVTA in Jan 2022.I am attending all 5 weeks with the solar add on week. You guys are the best. Also, I am going to be documenting my journey on my RUclips channel SaltyVetAdventures.
Thank you for your wonderful videos.
Todd, The new part of NEC551 Part IV D is saying that the RVs being manufactured must now have a reverse polarity visual and audible warning signal installed. I’m not sure which company started manufacturing them and got them in the 2020NEC, but I’ve got every book from 1981 to 2017, Retired in 2018, and that is how some devices get passed by that code making panel. As you said, reverse polarity by itself is not going to cause hot skin. Your example of a screw in the Romex is correct. But a screw into a hot and into the frame, is a direct short. Even with reverse polarity, still a direct short. If there were no equipment ground, reverse polarity and a screw from the hot to the frame, then you would have hot skin. If you bond N&G in an RV and plug into reverse polarity receptacle, the breaker will trip as direct short. This is not the condition the NEC is about.
Finally got time to watch this. Hadn't read comments from part 1 and was surprised by Todd's demeanor. As I continued watching, it quickly became apparent that that change was appropriate for such a life and death discussion. Thank you for taking the time to clarify the sources for the recommendations from real code. Serious discussion for a serious topic. Great video. THX.
Cliff notes… houses don’t move unless you live on a fault line… campers shake a lot.. wires get cut… mainly due to harmonic vibrations…. Sometime also caused by rodents… so yes an ems would be a good thing … just like natural immunos
I was in the Natural Gas Industry for 20+ years, ppl always tried to tell me how to do my job. I would always say “Get To It” I will call the fire department. Great job Todd!
Thanks for clarifying for those who needed it....I have discussed this with a Master Electrician and he said the same thing you did... different words but same message. FYI ...Love your tips and yes I want to learn more and when we can make it happen, I will be sitting in your class room🙂🙂‼️
This is a very well stated explanation of the "hot skin" situation and I appreciate how Todd explained it!
Thanks for the information. The EMS or monitoring device is a good first step to safely get your rig set up for a safe camping experience. Yes, other things can go wrong but catching an error at the point of connection should be the goal.
Excellent information and explanation. Internet "pros" drive me nuts.
Thank you, NRVTA, and Todd. Electricity is no joking matter. Keep up the great work!
hi Todd, i was confused on my camper that showed that both common and hot side had power but the breaker did not show this. i suspected that the cable was compromised so i rewired the plug , your explanation of hot skin clears that up.
thanks
I shall clarify. the last gear while in tow/haul. if it doesn’t shift then it’s the last gear.
I think it's important to mention that there are 30 amp and 50 amp RV outlet testers on the market now that cost $50ish or so.
Much cheaper than a protector (but obviously don't fault open), but better and much safer than someone who doesn't have experience with electricity and multimeters trying to probe an outlet in the rain and the dark.
I firmly believe that the electrical code should require GFCI breakers for RV outlets.
Great info. I had a hot skin issue a couple weeks ago and texted one of your graduates for advice. 12 hours later I was in a bay at my rigs manufacturer getting the power cord, reel and entire assembly replaced. Thanks for teaching great info and putting out knowledgeable techs ….I need to attend your classes.
Your information is valid. Inexpensive testers are available to the public to check for polarity. Everyone should have one.
Excellent, thank you!
That part about a screw or something piercing a wire was something I hoped you'd cover, I listened on the scanner one night as a man down the street died, when they put stucco on his new house, a staple hit a hot wire, he was trying to work on his garage door opener, long story short the track for the opener had contacted the same chicken wire that was holding on the stucco, a volt meter would have saved his life, he got a mild shock, checked that he breaker was off, the next time he grabbed that track he couldn't let go, sad ending to doing things yourself
Mine did that when I plugged it in, my dog got his nose zapped one day and I couldn't figure why he was so scared to get near it then one day I crawled under it to do something and touched my forehead and bzzzzzt! I tightened all of the neutrals and grounds and it stopped. Just went out and checked, was down to 450mv
Thank you for another great video! Keep teaching from the standards and manual.
Thank you
Top Notch Class A video! Thank you.
He knows this stuff well
Thanks for putting out these tips.
Great follow up video
Best one, Todd
Nicely done!
are the neutral and ground connected in anyway in an rv like in a house? i would think so because the rv is not grounded except through the power cord.
Excellent video and follows the laws!
But I have a serious concern about axles on RVs VERSES actually trailer GVW RATINGS! FOR example my FIFTH WHEEL Toy Hauler per label says max weight is 14000 lbs but as I looked into my AXLES and the labels in them ( tandem axles) the label says 6000 lbs! Simple math 6000 × 2 = 12000lbs! Now I bought toy hauler with a 12' garage, which I was very clear on to have enough room to put my HONDA GOLDWING in along with my deluxe timeout motorcycle camper trailer in! Motorcycle dry weight is around 800lbs camper trailer empty stock weight is around 250lbs, plus I had washer dryer set installed in garage area! Humm simple math says I'm overloading at least the real axle! That's also without put fuel in gas tank ( 40 gal tank)on this toy hauler! So to me RV industry is lying about actually GVW RATINGS a camper can actually haul! When I asked dealership about THIS their explanation was that the RV manufacturer industry ALSO adds the tongue weight that frame was built for! NOW RO ME AND LITS OF EXPERIENCE PULLING ALL TYPES OF TRAILERS, HORSE/ LIVESTOCK AND ALL TYPES OF COMMERCIAL TRAILERS, BECAUSE I HAVE A CDL LICENSE AND I AM A COMMERCIAL HAULER FOR WORK! NONE OF THIS ADDS UP! I'M VERY UPSET AND REALLY WANT AN HONEST ANSWER AND TO SEE GVW RATINGS ON RVS CORRECTED OR PROPER TRUE AXLES INSTALLED
I suggest going to the NRVTA website, about us or contact us tab and shoot them an email. RUclips comments section is not exactly the best place to look for an answer to this type of question. To be clear I am just a random person on the internet, I am not affiliated with them, just throwing out a suggestion. I would love for them to make a video on this as I see your point, logically what you are saying makes sense, I am not qualified in any way to talk about it but I am interested.
we will do a video on this
So how do you protect your self from this plz
If you find a hot spot have a certified RV tech come and look at it. They can help find the cause of this issue.
Typical response from any tech, call someone to spend a ton of money.
I just bought a surge protector for my RV. Used it for the first time at the campground and got an error code so we didn't use the protector for that trip. I got home and plugged it in and got the same error code. I looked it up and it says Reverse Polarity. I have never been shocked nor do I seem to have any electrical problems with my trailer. Please advise,
Would really like to hear your STANCE on THIS
I'm confused. I've consulted NFPA 70 before, but AFAIK it's an advisory for local building codes. The last time I checked, an RV is an automobile, not a building. Why is the NEC the bible, and nothing from the Society of Automotive Engineers or ASE applies? I know that some parts of an RV resemble home construction, but looking similar and being exactly alike are two very different things! For example, houses typically don't have 12V DC electrical systems, and don't ride on insulating rubber tires.
Hi Stingernews1, That's a good observation. Automobiles do not have 120v so SAE would have no guidance on the largest systems: 120v, propane, plumbing, and so on. SAE is also not the governing body that the RVIA requires manufacturers to comply with, it's NFPA 1192.
@@NationalRVTrainingAcademy thanks! I'll have to get a copy. While my car doesn't have 120VAC, just about every new car I see does, so someone is writing standards for those inverters.
It is an IQ test, really. If you listen to some random Internet guy, you have a room temperature IQ. I learend about this problem from Mike Sokol.
What does NEC recommend to connect the Earth, Is it bonded to the frame of the RV?
So the frame is connected to the ground in the power cord that goes back to a master panel. A sub panel should be in between
I'm trying to understand something really quick. When you get shocked by hot skin at a campground, you're completing the circuit back to the source, right? Would this be the correct order: The electricity is traveling from the RV hot skin, through you, through the ground, back to the pedestal where it rides up a possible ground rod (or the case of the pedestal itself), through the ground wire back to the main service panel where it meets back up with the neutral at the bonding point. Or does the electricity simply want to pass from the hot skin, through your body, and then to the earth because there's such a difference in voltage -- and completing the circuit has nothing to do with it?
The ground is a path back to the source. What the point is, to be diligent in not causing a hot skin situation.
@@NationalRVTrainingAcademy Thank you for the reply. I'm assuming my hypothetical situation could be plausible? Everywhere I looked from a particular and outspoken internet personality on the matter just made it seem like the electricity wanted to get back to the earth just for the heck of it. It was driving me nuts because unless electricity changed, I figured it had to go back to the source.
So are electrical boxes in RVs need to be grounded to the frame/chasis?
yes. all grounds in the RV including case groundings go to chassis
This video is shocking