I'm actually loving this idea, it's a "The Doctor is not the Timeless Child" theory that works and has an answer that not only leaves a similar impact but a slimier one, making her not the victim but the harmer and abuser and that could be something terrifying she has to come to terms with
One minor change. Tectaun wiped they're memory on purpose in order to hide their identity from everyone, including themselves. Similar to a chameleon arch.
While committing the sin of answering the show's titular question, this is easily the best fan theory to balance what the show and extra media has provided as the origin of The Doctor. You married the timeless children and the cardinal master plan and the half human idea. It is more fulfilling to think, oh this was a PREVIOUS life of The Doctor's where they were an entirely different being versus Regeneration, which keeps The Doctor's life going, even if they have a different face and body. A case of BECOMING The Doctor versus IS The Doctor. Congrats on a very creative way to solve that element of the show.
Finally a fantheory that makes me excited rather than feeling like fans doing the heavy lifting and filling in the gaps Though I would ideally have the Master fooled by this too. The 'Master is lying' bit that so many denial headcanons lean on would just be terrible storytelling.
Thanks man. 🙂 What I like about the Master knowing is that means he’s made the decision to lie specifically to mess with her BECAUSE he knows she’s the one who experimented on him all those millennia ago. It’s specifically part of his revenge.
@@CulturePhilter I think that's just a dead certain way to get disconnected sequel storytelling. Like the TLJ to Rise of Skywalker, just bizarre to play to the audience so knowingly. I like to call it storytelling via retcon xD
@@CulturePhilter I think it's more the 'playing to a audience' aspect of it. It would make the entire drama and epic emotional staging of the finale into...clickbait.
@@CulturePhilter It would be awesome if the Doctor took her Tardis back in time to actually meet 'Tecteun' and find out for herself what really happened. Of course, the Timelords would have erected a barrier of some sort preventing such attempts and this would need to be obviated as part of the story!
It's really nice to see a Timeless Child theory or video that doesn't claim it to be the worst thing to ever happen. I'm on the fence about the Timeless Child, but fundamentally, it's going somewhere. It's a setup for something else. This theory is a something else. Most Timeless Child ideas retcon it, taking it back, lessening the impact. If it was just that the Master was the Timeless Child, and nothing more, it's a bit of a cop-out. The Timeless Child is meant to be uncomfortable. This is MORE uncomfortable. The Master was the innocent, the Doctor was the abuser. Getting the Doctor to sympathise with the child and then show her what she did. Also, when we see the flashback to the TC, the Doctor is looking at them. They're literally in Tecteun's position. That said, it means the Doctor's name is (in a way) Tecteun, which is a bit of a problem, but it'd be funny if the Master said he made that bit up. Actually I'm just going to say it, this is the best Doctor Who theory I've ever heard. It adds story and explains things, rather than retreading and complicating. It's good storytelling. Good job!
The BBC and Chinballs simply want the Doctor to be female, perfect and the beginning of it all. It's not actually story driven, it's idealogy driven. They simply don't care if it drives away neckbeards, they hate the neckbeards anyway - they voted for Brexit or Tories or something - and they want them driven away. We know BBC hates Britain - who they primarily serve - they've called the British flag racist for years. Self destructive? Well, as it happens, yes. #DefundTheBBC
Just stumbled across this, and I have to say, as a naysayer of the Timeless Child revelation I have to say, this is a damn solid theory. Makes total sense for the Doctor to have been Tecteun/the Other. So glad I found this video.
According to The Five Doctor's, Rassalon was alive during the Dark Times, the third Doctor explains to Sarah Jane Smith the history of the forbidden Zone as a place of Time Lord cruelty where other species were forced to fight to the death for their amusement, and that Rassalon put an end to it. The place became Rassalon's Tomb in order to deter others from seeking immortality. While the Third Doctor thought highly of Rassalon as a savior of the Galifreyans, subsequent evidence starting with Omega's claim that Rassilon was responsible for his entrapment into the Negative Zone (The Three Doctors), up to the confrontation between the 10th Doctor, the Master and Rassilon where he all but admits to manipulating events in both of thier lives for the sole purpose of gaining immortality. (He wasn't dead in the 5 Doctor's as was assumed, he placed himself in suspended animation and was revived and given a new set of regeneration cycles while Galifrey was timelocked). It is quite possible that Tecteun (A.K.A The One, The Other, The Unnamed Member of the Original Triad) was the one who threw herself into the looms or perhaps Rassilon pushed her in to eliminate the only other person who could stop him. While the Master could be lying to the Doctor, I'm leaning towards the idea that Rassilon is going to pop up at some point and admit he manipulated the Master into destroying Gallifrey as Revenge for his exile, that way he'd have a scapegoat, rebuild the planet, and become worshipped by the survivors. It would put him back in a position of power to exact revenge on the Doctor who is perhaps the most like Tecteun of all possible descendents, thus being Rassalon's greatest threat. The Fifth Doctor was forced to destroy Omega because his body was so unstable that he could have destroyed the universe. She may have to kill Rassilon to stop him from doing the same.
I've been saying for years that we need a prequel series featuring a young Rassilon and focusing on the early days of Time Lord society to fill in all the gaps in what we know about the Time Lords. Fills like such a missed opportunity to me that they're not doing it.
I've thought about the idea that the Doctor was just an ordinary Time Lord who discovered the truth about the Timeless Child and the founding of Time Lord civilization and decided to do something about it: he tracked down the Timeless Child, then erased his and her memories and replaced them with false memories so no one would find out the truth if they caught up to them and pried into their minds, so now they truly believed they were grandfather and granddaughter. In other words, the Timeless Child would be Susan, and this is the real reason why the Doctor fled Gallifrey even if he never remembered exactly why. It would keep the Doctor from being some super special chosen one who was important by birth instead of becoming important by his/her actions, and it would prevent a number of stories from ceasing to make sense, but at the same time it would connect in a clever way to the Classic Series and fill in some hidden lore. But, I also really like this idea of the Doctor originating as Tecteun. It makes sense out of things and leaves room for various expanded media stories. And while the Doctor would technically be important as the Other founder of Time Lord society, there is a dark edge that prevents the Doctor from being some sort of amazing god but is instead a monster who has to deal with what was done in the past. I also like how it incorporates the idea of the Timeless Child being the Master, another idea I've liked since it would make a lot of sense for his character, explaining his madness, his hatred of Time Lords, and his desire to defeat the Doctor coupled with seeking the Doctor's approval (because the Doctor was in effect his mother). Someone else in the comments mentioned the Master saying something along the lines of him always existing as long as the Doctor exists, which in this context would be more meaningful--the ghost of the Doctor's past deeds will always be there to haunt him/her, the fruits of Tecteun's evil work never leaving the Doctor, affecting his/her life forever. And this idea would bring more meaning to the Doctor always helping children in trouble, not being able to stand a child crying, because the Doctor wants to make up for what he/she did and wants to prevent such trauma from creating another monster, even without actually remembering the past, the guilt and regret forever etched into the Doctor's brain. This would also be subconsciously why the young Doctor befriended the young Master, and why the Doctor sought the Master's redemption, to make up for what was done and bring closure to the whole affair. The Doctor is also not fond of the Time Lords because subconsciously he/she knows they are his/her corrupt legacy. And this is also why the First Doctor felt like leaving Gallifrey, despite having a multigenerational family already: even without remembering what he did, he felt the need to run away from his past, but he couldn't sever the connection to his family completely, so he let Susan tag along. The many lives, potentially endless lives, of the Doctor are Tecteun's atonement for her sins. This theory might be the best way to improve the retcon yet! It not only erases the problems the retcon introduced, it also brings deeper meaning to basically everything!
Great theory Phil! Hope it comes true. It does a good job of wrapping up all these canonic elements that have been up in the air & not weaved together into a complete narrative. Also like the theory that the Timeless Child is the Master. Basically any of the fan mooted adjustments to this storyline are better haha. Well this arc/narrative isn’t over, so let’s hope it develops next series & has a satisfying end.
I don't think Chibnall is as clever to tie up all these loose canon threads, but I really like your theory that encompasses all of them! I think this could be told as narrated story with new footage (like the way the timeless child flashbacks are) so that "the whole story" could be digestable to a wider audience but i think it works really, I do think the "looms" are kinda shoehorned in but you could easily develop that more as like a basic genetesis/cloning chamber so some sci-fi reason? But i would deffo accept this wholehearted if it was the storyline we were given!
It was a lark by the Master. He wants the Doctor to find the Timeless Child so that the Master can stop the Time Lords from ever being created because he's cray cray that way.
I actually like this theory, however I've would adjust and change some elements that would make this theory more intriguing. What if instead of the infant Doctor coming out of the Loom after Tecteun/The Other weaved themselves from Rassilon's witch-hunt. The young (womb-born) Doctor steps inside a Loom either to gain his first new regeneration energy at the Academy or maybe curing some regeneration sickness by going inside Loom for medical reasons. Either way as he does so something goes terribly wrong with the Doctor's Loom as Tecteun/The Other's life energy merges with the Doctor during the looming process, causing him to lose consciousness with his DNA and Biodata being mix together with Tecteun/The Other. This allowing the Doctor to remember small fragments from Tecteun/The Other's memories buried deep in his mind like the Morbius Doctors (Tecteun/The Other previous incarnations), The Seventh Doctor claiming he's "far more than just another Time Lord" due to Tecteun/The Other being inside him and knowing that something was different about him which he can't put his finger on. As for the Doctor being half-human, you can easily introduce the Doctor's biological parents. His father, a high ranking Time Lord called Ulysses and his human mother name Penelope Gate into the show and explain that the Doctor's love for humans and Earth comes from his mother while his father being a Cardinal of the High Council and a member of the House of Lungbarrow (The Doctor's royal family house). You also have the Doctor's older brother Irving Braxiatel into the mix. As for Tecteun and The Other, I could see Tecteun being the first incarnation of The Other and renaming her The Other later on in her/his life. Or maybe to make it more mysterious have Tecteun and The Other be completely separate people and both were loomed together into the young Doctor.
love it love it love it, but I do believe that the doctor did serve in the division (maybe post time lord academy?) and then steals a tardis and runs away after having their mind wiped as part of their service
The Master is the Timeless Child, that makes sense, consider, when we first met the Master during the third doctors incarnation, the Master was on his last regeneration, being conditioned into thinking about the finite number of regenerations Timelords have, yet he still comes back through many ways, eg perhaps the Master didn't take Tremas's body he merely absorbed it and then regenerated into someone that looks like Tremas's, also Bruce in the 96 movie, again absorbtion, but it went wrong and this "possession" failed and that's why Bruce was killed instead of absorbed, hence the Masters new rotting body, the Master merely thought he was lucky being able to regenerate in different methods, but he was the Timeless Child and has infinite regenerations, he just wasn't aware of it.
Interesting theory. Personally I’m of the opinion that whoever the timelesss child is Tecteun found a way to impose the regeneration limit on them too.
The only problem i have with any of this is, as far as i understand it, comic/audio drama/book material is all considered secondary canon, while on screen occurrences are primary canon. Which makes sense to me, since there's comics where cybermen literally assimilate entire galaxies, and we haven't ever seen a Cyberman group on screen, successfully do this. Not even in the 10th series when there was a bit of a weird alternative universe encounter.
Oh yes, naturally the TV show writers are not bound by anything in the books but that doesn’t mean they can’t choose to bring an element over if they wish to.
@@CulturePhilter You have a point. Honestly your theory is kinda where my mind went too when i first heard this anyway. It just seems like something the character of the master would do. It also makes their battle with each other essentially at the start of both of their lives, technically. (Doc's possible first ever regeneration, and the timeless child... Well still being a child.)
This makes the most sense, it’s a theory I’d like to see, it’d be a shame to lose some of the lore surrounding rassilon and omega that you mentioned had been established, this theory nicely weaves in what we knew as well as adding more to the mix!
When rassilon says I WILL NOT DIE maybe he knew the flux was coming and like he seid he will ascend to beings of pure consciousness alone and after hell bent returned to gallifrey and he and the timelords became the kassavin to hide in another dimension from it and that's why gallifrey was was desolate for the master to do what he wants with
The Master being the Timeless Child makes much more sense than the Doctor, especially since the number of regenerations, incarnations, and iterations that The Master has had is a mess.
Good idea. And how is no one noticing that "Tecteun" even sounds a bit like "Doctor Who"? (Gotta say, I wrote this just 01:07 Minutes in, so - if you point that out later, mea culpa).
It would be nice, naive even, to imagine Chibnall has YOUR story-telling abilities to pull off such a retcon, if he DOES even have a Timeless Child 'clean-up' plan. Great (set of) theories though, enjoyed this immensely. One other little thing: Could we expect the return of one Lady Peinforte at any stage?
I have always believed somewhere in my mind that the Doctor isn’t just the counter part of the Master. They aren’t just intertwined by fate and the history of the time lords but they are in fact the same time lord. As to which came first I do not know. I don’t know whether it’d be sweeter as a narrative to witness the fall of a great man succumb to bitterness after seeing the worst of the atrocities across space and time and give himself an equal or a driving force to push himself to be the bigger person, the one to save them all and return to become the Master to create the duality of the Doctor. (This half of the theory is based on how even in the old school Who episodes the Master often appeared as the villain during the Doctors crisis of faith and when he had suffered a ‘defeat’ or was beginning to doubt their necessity) or When we saw Missy finally agree to stand with the Doctor and her line in response to standing together “that’s all I ever wanted” could’ve been the catalyst to the Master returning one day to become the saviour and receive the adoration desired since the beginning. Now where does this all tie together with the timeless children? Either Tecteun or the Timeless Child could be candidates for the Dr/Master in my theory. Tecteun - Developed and created the regeneration process and only agreed to limit it in the future however they wouldn’t have forgotten or necessarily agreed to limit their own regenerations. They would be not only the first time lord but the one with the ability to regenerate as many times as they wished or needed. Enough times to live twice even as a time lord. The Child - same as above but without the extra steps. They wouldn’t limit their powers because it was theirs to hold and wasn’t gifted to them. They could live and grow and die and begin again at any point they wished. They were the Master of time and the one who Doctored the powers of the Time lords from beginning to end. The crossover between the Master and the Doctor sharing the same DNA traits would be expanded by them not having the same genetics forced upon them. They grow to become the same person at one point or another. The fact that the only two time lords to have ever regenerated more than their “allotted” amounts are the Dr and Master and both explanations of how they achieved this come from the council or Rassilon who has shown to be willing to lie and obliterate anyone that could counteract these lies make the explanation that they were granted more or stole more respectively seem so outlandish when there is the possibility that they don’t have to... because they have an endless supply. Because they are the same. They are both the timeless child OR they are both the one that figured it out. They are the same. They are eternal. To me that’ll be more poetic than them being one half of this ancient duo but we shall see...
@@CulturePhilter thank you. Obviously it may be entirely waffle but it’s a storyline I hope they one day explore... plus a Master spin off series detailing their nefarious exploits could be just what’s needed to wash the sickly sweet and rather unfulfilling Chibnall experiment from the senses
I really liked the Timeless Child plotline, and while it had its problems it was a far cry from the show-ruining blunder that a lot of fans make it out to be. I've heard the Doctor = Tecteun and Master = Timeless Child theory before, but this wraps it up very neatly, and as someone who tries to do the same thing himself, I really appreciate fan theories that account for lots of plotlines and plot holes at once. Your approach is solid, and I especially like it because of how it indirectly harkens back to two moments from Doctor Who history: 1) A Good Man Goes to War shows this idea that the Doctor's actions can redefine words across the history of the Universe, particularly the word 'Doctor'. So, the Doctor's secret original persona also being a doctor, but one that abused and took advantage of people, ties into this nicely. It recontextualizes the Doctor's overall mission as one of redeeming that word. 2) The Master being the Timeless Child ties back in to the Time Lords, particularly Rassilon, putting the drumbeat in his head, effectively ruining his life by driving him to madness. It cements the Master's status as a victim to the manifest destiny, colonialist ideals of the Time Lords.
Wow, Just seen your video about the Doctor not being the Timeless Child. Several months ago I had the thought that the Master was the Timeless Child the way he has had loads of body's over the years through all the other media. I totally agree with what you are saying about it all.
haven't seen this theory before, although i suspect it myself as well. you weaved many different things into this one, I think its great, and in my opinion really makes a lot of sense.
Great theory. I like it. But maybe the timeless child and the Doctor are products of the genetic engineering & splicing caused when Tectuan threw herself into the loom to escape Rassilon. Maybe the loom split Tectuan's genetic code into two separate entities, the timeless child as well as the little boy who would later become the Time Lord known as the Doctor?. So basicly the Doctor was reconstituted from the looms on Gallefrey & the timeless child was flung into the vortex to be later discovered by Tectuan stand outside a portal on a distant planet. So basicly if this is true, Tectuan created the timeless child & the Doctor. This means Tectuan effectively created herself🤔...Paradox🤪
That was a lot more complicated than my theory, but from the time I heard about it, I knew that the master was the timeless child and just wanted to get back at the doctor, so being tectun would be right inline with that.
I expected the timeless child to be the master. As he never dies forever. Was quite disappointed it was the doctor. I think that there's more to tecteun than they showed.
Oh yes , there is a lot more to Tecteun , or Rassilon, as we have always known her . That's one big thing , Rassilon and Tecteun being one and the same ancient Shabogon Spacelord Gallifreyan Timelord, Rassilontechteun . Remember we have only her version of events as to what happened when she was exploring the universe alone for many many years until she returns home to Gallifrey with a child . Her child. Her actual biological child , a half Gallifreyan half human with one heart that can Regenerate , that she knew she was going to have to kill repeatedly In order to figure out how to harness that ability and regain the immortality she feels unjustly robbed of by the Katurah. Immortality has been an obsession for Rassilontecteun for quite literally nearly the entire lifetime of the universe. We know she found an Untempered schism, we know she had a sample of The 9th Doctor's blood and the data from analyzing Rose Tyler's blood and her scientist determined very quickly that The Doctor was a far distant future Gallifreyan. We know the recipe Madame Gavarian In the far distant future uses to cook herself up a Regenerating Timelord in the form of River Song. Human DNA plus time vortex radiation exposure en utero ...... We know The Doctor is half human and half Gallifreyan... We have known The Doctor is the Timeless child since Ghost Monument. we have known The Doctor was The Other since the late eighties. The Other was said to be not entirely Gallifreyan... Rassilontechteun found an Untempered schism, Stargate, barrier , rift in SpaceTime , whatever you call it, and did what any scientist explorer would , set up her home away from home right at the base of the thing to study the crap out of it ... Eventually traversing it to somewhere remotely stable say the rift in Cardiff in the far distant future .... Who's the daddy though Wilfred Mott? Captain Jack ? Who knows? Coshamas? But Rassilontechteun more than likely intentionally got herself pregnant by a future human and cooked herself up her timeless child by returning to base camp and having her kid carried born and raised next to the gateway , gave her the same head start Madame Gavarian had In making River Song , the kid had most likely already Regenerated at least once before they returned to Gallifrey and so Rassilontechteun told a tiny fib and claimed her halfbreed offspring was an orphaned alien from another universe ....
My preferred answer is the Doctor is the child of a Human and Timelord of the future, The Doctor did mention he was from the far future in the original pilot, with half human/half gallifreyan DNA he may not have a limit to the number of regenerations like normal Gallifrey and (like Hybrid Lion and Tigresses, Ligers don't carry the limiter gene for size and Ligers being 3 times the size of Lions and Tigers), If this child was to have an accident near the time schism he could be blasted into the past, becoming a living Paradox being the founder of his own race, Techteun would not recognise his human half DNA so she recognise an alien, but discovers the other half is advanced Gallifreyan DNA that she can splice into her own. This would also answer all the questions.
I love this theory and the inclusion of the looms was amazing. Also do you think it could be Rassilon who comes out and spills the beans if this theory turns out to be true because Rassilon is exiled from Gallifrey and besides from the master and doctor is possibly the only other living timelord and may know some more information that the master didn’t uncover?
I should have really mentioned modern day Rassilon in the video. In this theory modern day Rassilon doesn’t know that the Doctor is Tecteun. (I think he wouldn’t have allowed the extra regenerations to be granted to dying 11th Doctor if he did know) But he could also somehow discover it now. It would be a good way to bring him back and have the reveal.
Tatuem could be the Rani. She was a biologist and may of found the Timeless Child not necessary the Doctor? Another theory Tatuem could be Ruth's Doctor the title was given by the Timelords? Before our Doctor got the title? The Timeless Child could be the Master? Clara or Ashilder could also be Ruth's Doctor. They had a TARDIS.
I've said all along that The Master is a far better fit for The Timeless Child. Interesting theory that has a lot of speculation, some of which I can agree with and a couple of bits I don't, mainly the half human parts. Yet, I also don't hate the idea of them being Tecteun/The Other, if they're going to be someone other than the Doctor we know. You could also add in that before he originally left Gallifrey with Susan, he was due to take his position as Lord President. It's referenced in either The Deadly Assassin or The Five Doctors, I can't remember which. That is a position that fits Tecteun's status, with Rassilon not being around.
@@CulturePhilter Of course and we wouldn't want it any other way. A big part of the show's enjoyment is the speculation, at least it is for me and obviously you too. Your speculation fits a lot better than many other theories I've seen, like Susan being The Timeless Child.
wow i love this theory i think tectaun did far more we have not seen yet. because in my head tectaun did wrong she/ he pick a name to undone some of what she/he did wrong (doctor). on top of this a great way to find out is could be from river song. as i side note when the Timeless Child is fighting on cliff do u think thats any one the boy. as for the master being the Timeless Child this would work being he/she comes back even after killing theirself. the only part that needs a little work around is that the doctor now has a name the master could of this made up tectaun or he said "there was a scientist called tectaun" maybe was her job title. thanks for making me think great video
Yes. Great theory... But... I'd tweak it..Tectuen wasn't experimenting on the child...but trying to SAVE it! The child kept dying then regenerating. Tectuen was desperately trying to STABILIZE the Timeless Child.
Its a decent theory but it falls flat due to cannon, We've already seen a previous incarnation of doctor of pre-hartnell era who also called herself Doctor. Second problem was the flashbacks of the policeboy incarnation being tortured. Third issue is the name itself doesn't ring any bells for Doctor...Doctor's name is earth shattering secret, openly taking the name is supposed to create a shock in her when she hears the Tecteun name. In my Theory I'd like to believe this is all done to create the entry of Valeyard. The day doctor truly fell apart and remembered everything of how he was robbed of his powers, tortured, used and thrown after doing alot of unspeakable deeds. This ties into Hybrid theory "A mix of two warrior races" "The one who will stand in ruins of gallifrey" "He will destroy a Billion hearts to heal his own" fits perfectly if Doctor himself was the one who ruined Gallifrey and Master saw it, confirming that he's the Timeless Child who is now Valeyard, plunged himself into suicidal frenzy after realizing his inferiority. He atleast wanted him to be the reason why doctor fucked everyone up to unseal his own potential power which was distributed to everyone. All the time this running, was because he was afraid of the coming valeyard which is manifestation of his dark emotions. He knew what he'd do if he was left just like that, so he went out. I'd consider the story rubbish until they mentioned Valeyard multiples of times and even in the special. It means they are creating a way for him to jump in.
If you mean The Doctor from fugitive of the Judoon it’s only been SPECULATED that she’s a pre-Hartnell Doctor. Still possible she’s either future Doctor or somewhere after Hartnell and before Whittaker that she somehow forgot. (Best likely hood for that is between Doctors 2 and 3)
Interesting idea, the third Doctor does rember living for thousands of years so possibly he was Techteun. But if so the show ends as we learn Who is DoctorTechteun.
Nice theory but i have one thing to point out if the doctor really is half human and aware if this fact how he can say in the doctor donna story that a mixture of timelord and human never existed before
It made more sense for the Doctor to be Tecteun than being the Timeless Child. Him being "The Doctor" who experimented on a child, and ran away to make up for it. It would also help justify the Masters actions (or at least in his own mind), no matter what he did, at least he'd never done THAT. As for The Timeless Child? Well the Doctor did leave his homeworld with a child, his Granddaughter Susan, so maybe . . .
I like this, maybe the Timelord secret was discovered by Faction Paradox, and they become the new long term enemy since Gallifrey and the Timelords are destroyed (again)
Here's another bit that's been hinted at that would fit right in: The Master and The Doctor, (plus The Valeyard and presumable others) are all regenerations of this other we now know as Tecteun. The Master has laughed at the Doctor, saying something to the effect that so long as The Doctor exists, he will exist. I would speculate that The Master is the earlier incarnation, and The Doctor came later. That they were children together would only require a little time travel.
I think she might not be pre-Hartnell but between Troughton and Pertwee. Some expanded universe stuff has the Doctor being used by time lords for missions during that gap and then memory wiped before being eventually banished to earth so maybe there was a whole regen in there too. That would explain why her TARDIS is a police box too.
@@CulturePhilter ah cool. Yeah they have started that Season 6b stuff on Big Finish, will see what they do with the Fugitive Doctor in future. I just don't think this was Chibnals plan, but great theory, wish it was cannon.
@@SRogerson91 we may never get any definitive confirmation of where she fits….. or some showrunner in 20 years time might decided to make it explicit. Who knows? 😄
Very much enjoyed this. If only, eh? One thing I wonder if you could explain: if Tecteun’s DNA is shared with a human’s from Earth, wouldn’t this make the Doctor the child of Tecteun rather than Tecteun? Might be misunderstanding the premise of looms!
Tbh I’d rather the Doctor have started with William Hartnell hence staying the same but have some other time lord of importance being the timeless child. Then somehow make Jo Martin become the 14th Doctor with memories lost after the regeneration then she wouldn’t remember being Jodie, as we don’t know who the Ruth Dr can remember being.
True but the 1st Doctor being the 1st incarnation of that Time Lord is a ship that had already sailed a long time ago back in the Tom Baker era with ‘The Morbius’ Doctors.
@@CulturePhilter I disagree that that ship sailed with the Morbius Doctors. There's nothing to say that those regens happened pre-Hartnell, or that they were genuine regens. It could have been a lie, although to be fair I don't remember the episode that well to add more than it being a possibility when dealing with baddies.
@@CulturePhilter If you want to go to the extremes, then yes. However, when that info has come from an enemy of the Doctor and goes against what has been established over the years by believable sources, then I tend to lean more towards that enemy stating a lie rather than the truth. But that's me.
My problem with it is if the Doctor was Tecteun, that means he was responsible for killing the child over and over and over. Not sure that's where we want this to land.
You ignoring Zagarus ;-) . Space Vampire DNA is still used for regeneration . Cold Fusion is still valid btw so we know The Other is opposed to Rassilon and works against him after Rassilons death (lungbarrow and Cold Fusion ) . Looms are a part of the sisterhood of Khan civil war . So i think its more likely that Tectuan is killed by Rassilon . Looms are after Phyrias curse , but natural birth does return . 6,7,8 and 10 all stated he was not half human (he lied ;-)) .
Literally had the same theory of the master being the timeless child and he's solely messing with the Dr so he gets just a little bit of revenge for what happened.
I still believe her to be the woman from hell bent and the woman from end of time but this would definitely make the doctor's timeline complex and at this point screw it let's do it haha
@@GeeksAssemble the viewers and/or a future showrunner to decide , The Timeless Children indicates (when you take in what we already know) The Doctor's biological mother is Rassilontechteun... With Chibnal filling in all Doctor Who plotholes ever without a single retcon and Romana being president of Gallifrey until The Time War eventually lead her to waking up Rassilontechteun from his snooze , Romana makes the most sense and I wouldn't put it past Chibnal to show that , filling in yet another of the many plotholes that he is filling in so perfectly
@@GeeksAssemble The show itself has already heavily implied that Rassilon and Tecteun are one and the same person , combined with Timelord Victorious you can call that point confirmed Beyond any reasonable doubt , likely this season will see The Doctor track down and confront Rassilon about Tecteun at the end of the universe, at the end of everything expect the company of immortals, accusing him of killing her "adoptive" mother . No, Doctor. I am your Mother. No. That's not true. That's impossible. Search your Human feelings and use your Gallifreyan brains and you'll know it be true.
But one problem - I think the whole point of Doctor Who is keeping the Doctor's name a mystery. If the Doctor's name is Tecteun, the biggest question will be solved, and there will be no point of Doctor Who.
Too much assuming here. There's nothing supporting Tecteun just randomly splicing themselves with a human. Like that's completely out of left field. And, the Swarm confirms in the last episode The Division's mind wipe was total, not a trace pre-Hartnell left in her mind, so there would be no tugging.
Thanks for commenting. There is assumptions, yes. To fill in gaps and make things established elsewhere (novels etc) that might otherwise contradict work together. That’s what fan theorizing is all about. And this was made before the current series so yes, it might need tweaking with more information we might get.
@@CulturePhilter Oh I get theorizing, but assumptions should have a launching point based in established fact. The Doctor saying he's half human in the 90s TV movie doesn't really justify the leap in logic for Tecteun to be splicing with human. As for memories, well, here's the current theory I'm working under, basically the TARDIS is what's tugging at him not her own memories 1. Division Doctor incarnations ARE pre-Hartnel. 2. Yet, Division Doctor's Tardis was a Police Box, and buried... 3. Division Doctor eventually is caught. Mind Wiped and forced into a new set of regenerations starting with Hartnell. 4. Even with the mind wipe something continues to tug at the Doctor. Maybe.... his old TARDIS... 5. This leads him to steal a TARDIS, or as the TARDIS put it she stole him. 6. Remember Clara telling the Hartnell Doctor "You're making a mistake, don't steal that one, take this one" 7. Hartwnell Doctor steals the TARDIS used by the Division Doctor. Why should it matter what TARDIS he steals, especially an... OLDER model. 8. We know the TARDIS is sentient, and can "break itself" if it wants. I maintain the chameleon circuit was never really broken, but his TARDIS using the police box as a way to try and jog the Doctor's memory, like when Smith Doctor chose the Capaldi face to remind the Doctor of the fires of Pompeii and THAT'S why it's stuck as a Police Box.
Really good theory. I like it. I will never be on board with timeless child but I like how you made it work. But how does this explain River? Why didn't Clara see these past lives when she jumped into the doctor's time stream
Do you mean why can River regenerate and the explanation that it’s because she was conceived in the vortex? Well...we don’t know how the Timeless Child/their race got that ability. It might still have had something to do with time vortex. Perhaps they are a race that LIVE/LIVED in the vortex. as for Clara that’s easy. Tecteun being reformed by the loom sort of acts as a road block in their timeline. So Clara hits that road block and stops traveling back along the timeline.
Actually River Song helps explain The Timeless Child, thanks to River Song, we know the recipe for cooking yourself up a Regenerating Timelord , human dna plus en utero vortex radiation exposure. Madame guavorian later used the same recipe to create River Song that Rassilontecteun used to create The Timeless Child , we know she discovered an opening into the fabric of space time , an Untempered schism to the time vortex itself whilst exploring alone , many years later she returns home with a child , we know The Doctor is half human , Rassilontechteun would not be the first mother in Doctor Who to pretend completley that her child was not her child , The Empty Child comes to mind ..... As for clara not seeing any of the pre-Doctor incarnations , that's easy , the open wound they were driving into , the tracks of The Doctor's tears, only started when The Doctor started time traveling. Non of the pre-Doctor incarnations ever traveled in time ... And if they did , they would have been 💯 observation only. Absolutely no interacting with people places things or events in times other than there own . Zero exceptions. When The First Doctor stole a TARDIS and ran away , that was his first time traveling through time in which he actually did interact with the people places and things he encounters, that's when the tracks of his tears begins , so the great intelligence couldn't have attacked any of the pre-Doctor incarnations, and Clara couldn't have seen any of The Pre-doctor incarnations nor would there be a pre-Doctor incarnation newly in trouble due to attach from the gi facilitating the need of a clara to save them
I think back in the classic era that could have been a possibility but since they met (in End of Time and then He’ll Bent) I don’t think that could fit now.
Yeah, both don't fit in the narrative or the regeneration cycles so The Doctor being the Timeless Child or the Tecteun don't make sense. For example, if the Time lords learned how to recreate regeneration, why just 12? Why not give themselfs an infinite number of regenerations? Why did River have the ability to regenerate?
Not bad. But what if the Doctor is both Tecteun and the Timeless child. Imagine that the Doctor with endless regenerations leads countless lives. Travels through time, space, and universes but at some point tries to find where it all started, or any other time lord, what ever reason they travel through the gate way, do not survive and regenerate into the timeless Child. Tecteun finds the child and succeeds with the DNA transfer only because the DNA has so many similarities with their own. Now Tecteun lives on through your theory. Outliving Rassilan and the Master... everyone until they have lead countless lives. Finally travelling back to the begging to start the loop all over again.
Amazing theory! I agree that it would make more sense for the Master to be the Timeless Child but I hadn't thought about the Doctor being Tecteun. Brilliant. And it shifts the Doctor/Master relationship from a sibling type rivalry to more of a guardian and child. I love the idea of Tecteun being in the Ireland flashbacks to protect the Timeless Child. My only thought about the looms is that maybe the time travel experiments have caused infertility. It would appear the Shobogan's can have children and I can't see them having looms or advanced technology. Or because they are the scientific elite they view physical reproduction to be below their status (like in Demolition Man!) so they use the DNA looms to have designer babies. We also know from Amy and Rory that if you have sex in a Tardis your child has the power of regeneration so maybe the Time Lords, trying to protect their secret, want to limit reproduction or they may have deliberately sterilised themselves. We haven't actually seen very many female Time Lords in the history of the show.
Indeed. It is the curse of all fan theory’s that they may one day be proved catagorically wrong by an episode. This theory’s day for that has arrived 😄
I see a doctor and someone's DNA being copied, a "master-copy", if you wheeeeeel. Also, "Am I a good Man?" becomes the conclusion of a redemption arc. As she was a horrible Tecteun Regenerating back to a female form is reward, but now she must face her past crimes.
If she is tectuen it could support my theory of Susan being the child instead, both wiped their memories and the Doctor brought Susan with them instead of leaving on their own as the Doctor could've disagreed with what they're doing to Susan now.
@@CulturePhilter at the end of the episode The day of the moon white Melody Pond regenerates into a black girl. Tecteun finds a black girl who looks like the actress Melody regenerated into. It would also explain why River only had enough regeneration energy to revive the doctor.
I'm actually loving this idea, it's a "The Doctor is not the Timeless Child" theory that works and has an answer that not only leaves a similar impact but a slimier one, making her not the victim but the harmer and abuser and that could be something terrifying she has to come to terms with
One minor change. Tectaun wiped they're memory on purpose in order to hide their identity from everyone, including themselves. Similar to a chameleon arch.
Yes, good idea.
Yeah, this is the most reliable theory I've heard in the last 4 years
While committing the sin of answering the show's titular question, this is easily the best fan theory to balance what the show and extra media has provided as the origin of The Doctor. You married the timeless children and the cardinal master plan and the half human idea. It is more fulfilling to think, oh this was a PREVIOUS life of The Doctor's where they were an entirely different being versus Regeneration, which keeps The Doctor's life going, even if they have a different face and body. A case of BECOMING The Doctor versus IS The Doctor. Congrats on a very creative way to solve that element of the show.
Thank you.
The Doctor was implied to be the Other in Lungbarrow and Tecteun was indeed the Other. So ya, that's an awesome theory.
Tecteun is not the other
Finally a fantheory that makes me excited rather than feeling like fans doing the heavy lifting and filling in the gaps
Though I would ideally have the Master fooled by this too. The 'Master is lying' bit that so many denial headcanons lean on would just be terrible storytelling.
Thanks man. 🙂
What I like about the Master knowing is that means he’s made the decision to lie specifically to mess with her BECAUSE he knows she’s the one who experimented on him all those millennia ago. It’s specifically part of his revenge.
@@CulturePhilter I think that's just a dead certain way to get disconnected sequel storytelling. Like the TLJ to Rise of Skywalker, just bizarre to play to the audience so knowingly. I like to call it storytelling via retcon xD
DAVIS - I guess that would depend on if it was the plan all along or decided as an after thought (like most of the stuff in Rise if Skywalker was)
@@CulturePhilter I think it's more the 'playing to a audience' aspect of it. It would make the entire drama and epic emotional staging of the finale into...clickbait.
@@CulturePhilter It would be awesome if the Doctor took her Tardis back in time to actually meet 'Tecteun' and find out for herself what really happened. Of course, the Timelords would have erected a barrier of some sort preventing such attempts and this would need to be obviated as part of the story!
It's really nice to see a Timeless Child theory or video that doesn't claim it to be the worst thing to ever happen. I'm on the fence about the Timeless Child, but fundamentally, it's going somewhere. It's a setup for something else. This theory is a something else. Most Timeless Child ideas retcon it, taking it back, lessening the impact. If it was just that the Master was the Timeless Child, and nothing more, it's a bit of a cop-out. The Timeless Child is meant to be uncomfortable. This is MORE uncomfortable. The Master was the innocent, the Doctor was the abuser. Getting the Doctor to sympathise with the child and then show her what she did.
Also, when we see the flashback to the TC, the Doctor is looking at them. They're literally in Tecteun's position. That said, it means the Doctor's name is (in a way) Tecteun, which is a bit of a problem, but it'd be funny if the Master said he made that bit up.
Actually I'm just going to say it, this is the best Doctor Who theory I've ever heard. It adds story and explains things, rather than retreading and complicating. It's good storytelling. Good job!
Thank you. 🙂
The BBC and Chinballs simply want the Doctor to be female, perfect and the beginning of it all. It's not actually story driven, it's idealogy driven. They simply don't care if it drives away neckbeards, they hate the neckbeards anyway - they voted for Brexit or Tories or something - and they want them driven away. We know BBC hates Britain - who they primarily serve - they've called the British flag racist for years. Self destructive? Well, as it happens, yes.
#DefundTheBBC
Just stumbled across this, and I have to say, as a naysayer of the Timeless Child revelation I have to say, this is a damn solid theory. Makes total sense for the Doctor to have been Tecteun/the Other. So glad I found this video.
According to The Five Doctor's, Rassalon was alive during the Dark Times, the third Doctor explains to Sarah Jane Smith the history of the forbidden Zone as a place of Time Lord cruelty where other species were forced to fight to the death for their amusement, and that Rassalon put an end to it. The place became Rassalon's Tomb in order to deter others from seeking immortality. While the Third Doctor thought highly of Rassalon as a savior of the Galifreyans, subsequent evidence starting with Omega's claim that Rassilon was responsible for his entrapment into the Negative Zone (The Three Doctors), up to the confrontation between the 10th Doctor, the Master and Rassilon where he all but admits to manipulating events in both of thier lives for the sole purpose of gaining immortality. (He wasn't dead in the 5 Doctor's as was assumed, he placed himself in suspended animation and was revived and given a new set of regeneration cycles while Galifrey was timelocked).
It is quite possible that Tecteun (A.K.A The One, The Other, The Unnamed Member of the Original Triad) was the one who threw herself into the looms or perhaps Rassilon pushed her in to eliminate the only other person who could stop him.
While the Master could be lying to the Doctor, I'm leaning towards the idea that Rassilon is going to pop up at some point and admit he manipulated the Master into destroying Gallifrey as Revenge for his exile, that way he'd have a scapegoat, rebuild the planet, and become worshipped by the survivors. It would put him back in a position of power to exact revenge on the Doctor who is perhaps the most like Tecteun of all possible descendents, thus being Rassalon's greatest threat.
The Fifth Doctor was forced to destroy Omega because his body was so unstable that he could have destroyed the universe. She may have to kill Rassilon to stop him from doing the same.
I've been saying for years that we need a prequel series featuring a young Rassilon and focusing on the early days of Time Lord society to fill in all the gaps in what we know about the Time Lords. Fills like such a missed opportunity to me that they're not doing it.
That could be really interesting .
I've thought about the idea that the Doctor was just an ordinary Time Lord who discovered the truth about the Timeless Child and the founding of Time Lord civilization and decided to do something about it: he tracked down the Timeless Child, then erased his and her memories and replaced them with false memories so no one would find out the truth if they caught up to them and pried into their minds, so now they truly believed they were grandfather and granddaughter. In other words, the Timeless Child would be Susan, and this is the real reason why the Doctor fled Gallifrey even if he never remembered exactly why. It would keep the Doctor from being some super special chosen one who was important by birth instead of becoming important by his/her actions, and it would prevent a number of stories from ceasing to make sense, but at the same time it would connect in a clever way to the Classic Series and fill in some hidden lore.
But, I also really like this idea of the Doctor originating as Tecteun. It makes sense out of things and leaves room for various expanded media stories. And while the Doctor would technically be important as the Other founder of Time Lord society, there is a dark edge that prevents the Doctor from being some sort of amazing god but is instead a monster who has to deal with what was done in the past. I also like how it incorporates the idea of the Timeless Child being the Master, another idea I've liked since it would make a lot of sense for his character, explaining his madness, his hatred of Time Lords, and his desire to defeat the Doctor coupled with seeking the Doctor's approval (because the Doctor was in effect his mother). Someone else in the comments mentioned the Master saying something along the lines of him always existing as long as the Doctor exists, which in this context would be more meaningful--the ghost of the Doctor's past deeds will always be there to haunt him/her, the fruits of Tecteun's evil work never leaving the Doctor, affecting his/her life forever. And this idea would bring more meaning to the Doctor always helping children in trouble, not being able to stand a child crying, because the Doctor wants to make up for what he/she did and wants to prevent such trauma from creating another monster, even without actually remembering the past, the guilt and regret forever etched into the Doctor's brain. This would also be subconsciously why the young Doctor befriended the young Master, and why the Doctor sought the Master's redemption, to make up for what was done and bring closure to the whole affair. The Doctor is also not fond of the Time Lords because subconsciously he/she knows they are his/her corrupt legacy. And this is also why the First Doctor felt like leaving Gallifrey, despite having a multigenerational family already: even without remembering what he did, he felt the need to run away from his past, but he couldn't sever the connection to his family completely, so he let Susan tag along. The many lives, potentially endless lives, of the Doctor are Tecteun's atonement for her sins. This theory might be the best way to improve the retcon yet! It not only erases the problems the retcon introduced, it also brings deeper meaning to basically everything!
Woo!
Great theory Phil! Hope it comes true. It does a good job of wrapping up all these canonic elements that have been up in the air & not weaved together into a complete narrative.
Also like the theory that the Timeless Child is the Master. Basically any of the fan mooted adjustments to this storyline are better haha.
Well this arc/narrative isn’t over, so let’s hope it develops next series & has a satisfying end.
If by some miracle I’ve predicted what Chibnell actually has planned I’ll be mentioning it every chance I get. 😄
I don't think Chibnall is as clever to tie up all these loose canon threads, but I really like your theory that encompasses all of them! I think this could be told as narrated story with new footage (like the way the timeless child flashbacks are) so that "the whole story" could be digestable to a wider audience but i think it works really, I do think the "looms" are kinda shoehorned in but you could easily develop that more as like a basic genetesis/cloning chamber so some sci-fi reason? But i would deffo accept this wholehearted if it was the storyline we were given!
It was a lark by the Master. He wants the Doctor to find the Timeless Child so that the Master can stop the Time Lords from ever being created because he's cray cray that way.
in one of the last ever RTD dr who episodes there is a time lord with her face covered and i always wondered who that was
Yes, still a mystery.
I actually like this theory, however I've would adjust and change some elements that would make this theory more intriguing. What if instead of the infant Doctor coming out of the Loom after Tecteun/The Other weaved themselves from Rassilon's witch-hunt. The young (womb-born) Doctor steps inside a Loom either to gain his first new regeneration energy at the Academy or maybe curing some regeneration sickness by going inside Loom for medical reasons. Either way as he does so something goes terribly wrong with the Doctor's Loom as Tecteun/The Other's life energy merges with the Doctor during the looming process, causing him to lose consciousness with his DNA and Biodata being mix together with Tecteun/The Other. This allowing the Doctor to remember small fragments from Tecteun/The Other's memories buried deep in his mind like the Morbius Doctors (Tecteun/The Other previous incarnations), The Seventh Doctor claiming he's "far more than just another Time Lord" due to Tecteun/The Other being inside him and knowing that something was different about him which he can't put his finger on.
As for the Doctor being half-human, you can easily introduce the Doctor's biological parents. His father, a high ranking Time Lord called Ulysses and his human mother name Penelope Gate into the show and explain that the Doctor's love for humans and Earth comes from his mother while his father being a Cardinal of the High Council and a member of the House of Lungbarrow (The Doctor's royal family house). You also have the Doctor's older brother Irving Braxiatel into the mix.
As for Tecteun and The Other, I could see Tecteun being the first incarnation of The Other and renaming her The Other later on in her/his life. Or maybe to make it more mysterious have Tecteun and The Other be completely separate people and both were loomed together into the young Doctor.
love it love it love it, but I do believe that the doctor did serve in the division (maybe post time lord academy?) and then steals a tardis and runs away after having their mind wiped as part of their service
This is so much better, could be cool if there was a bigeneration some where in there which could explain the other being killed later in the future.
That could be interesting.
The Master is the Timeless Child, that makes sense, consider, when we first met the Master during the third doctors incarnation, the Master was on his last regeneration, being conditioned into thinking about the finite number of regenerations Timelords have, yet he still comes back through many ways, eg perhaps the Master didn't take Tremas's body he merely absorbed it and then regenerated into someone that looks like Tremas's, also Bruce in the 96 movie, again absorbtion, but it went wrong and this "possession" failed and that's why Bruce was killed instead of absorbed, hence the Masters new rotting body, the Master merely thought he was lucky being able to regenerate in different methods, but he was the Timeless Child and has infinite regenerations, he just wasn't aware of it.
Interesting theory. Personally I’m of the opinion that whoever the timelesss child is Tecteun found a way to impose the regeneration limit on them too.
I agree with you! I would add how beautiful the masters regeneration energy was in Utopia and how he screams from the trauma he faced.
The only problem i have with any of this is, as far as i understand it, comic/audio drama/book material is all considered secondary canon, while on screen occurrences are primary canon.
Which makes sense to me, since there's comics where cybermen literally assimilate entire galaxies, and we haven't ever seen a Cyberman group on screen, successfully do this. Not even in the 10th series when there was a bit of a weird alternative universe encounter.
Oh yes, naturally the TV show writers are not bound by anything in the books but that doesn’t mean they can’t choose to bring an element over if they wish to.
@@CulturePhilter You have a point.
Honestly your theory is kinda where my mind went too when i first heard this anyway. It just seems like something the character of the master would do.
It also makes their battle with each other essentially at the start of both of their lives, technically. (Doc's possible first ever regeneration, and the timeless child... Well still being a child.)
This makes the most sense, it’s a theory I’d like to see, it’d be a shame to lose some of the lore surrounding rassilon and omega that you mentioned had been established, this theory nicely weaves in what we knew as well as adding more to the mix!
When rassilon says I WILL NOT DIE maybe he knew the flux was coming and like he seid he will ascend to beings of pure consciousness alone and after hell bent returned to gallifrey and he and the timelords became the kassavin to hide in another dimension from it and that's why gallifrey was was desolate for the master to do what he wants with
The problem with this theory is it doesn't explain the Doctor hiding the Hand of Omega in 1963 which was an original reason he left gallifrey
True. I didn’t address that but it’s easy enough to fold in. He flees because of the reasons I stated but also takes the hand with him.
One of the few fan theories that doesen't get rid of the Timeless Child plot, but rather make it bearable.
The Master being the Timeless Child makes much more sense than the Doctor, especially since the number of regenerations, incarnations, and iterations that The Master has had is a mess.
Good idea. And how is no one noticing that "Tecteun" even sounds a bit like "Doctor Who"? (Gotta say, I wrote this just 01:07 Minutes in, so - if you point that out later, mea culpa).
It would be nice, naive even, to imagine Chibnall has YOUR story-telling abilities to pull off such a retcon, if he DOES even have a Timeless Child 'clean-up' plan. Great (set of) theories though, enjoyed this immensely. One other little thing: Could we expect the return of one Lady Peinforte at any stage?
You have got such a cool background for your video, damn!
Thanks. I’ve added a few more LED lights to the shelves since I recorded that video as well.
I have always believed somewhere in my mind that the Doctor isn’t just the counter part of the Master. They aren’t just intertwined by fate and the history of the time lords but they are in fact the same time lord. As to which came first I do not know. I don’t know whether it’d be sweeter as a narrative to witness the fall of a great man succumb to bitterness after seeing the worst of the atrocities across space and time and give himself an equal or a driving force to push himself to be the bigger person, the one to save them all and return to become the Master to create the duality of the Doctor. (This half of the theory is based on how even in the old school Who episodes the Master often appeared as the villain during the Doctors crisis of faith and when he had suffered a ‘defeat’ or was beginning to doubt their necessity)
or
When we saw Missy finally agree to stand with the Doctor and her line in response to standing together “that’s all I ever wanted” could’ve been the catalyst to the Master returning one day to become the saviour and receive the adoration desired since the beginning.
Now where does this all tie together with the timeless children? Either Tecteun or the Timeless Child could be candidates for the Dr/Master in my theory.
Tecteun - Developed and created the regeneration process and only agreed to limit it in the future however they wouldn’t have forgotten or necessarily agreed to limit their own regenerations. They would be not only the first time lord but the one with the ability to regenerate as many times as they wished or needed. Enough times to live twice even as a time lord.
The Child - same as above but without the extra steps. They wouldn’t limit their powers because it was theirs to hold and wasn’t gifted to them. They could live and grow and die and begin again at any point they wished. They were the Master of time and the one who Doctored the powers of the Time lords from beginning to end.
The crossover between the Master and the Doctor sharing the same DNA traits would be expanded by them not having the same genetics forced upon them. They grow to become the same person at one point or another.
The fact that the only two time lords to have ever regenerated more than their “allotted” amounts are the Dr and Master and both explanations of how they achieved this come from the council or Rassilon who has shown to be willing to lie and obliterate anyone that could counteract these lies make the explanation that they were granted more or stole more respectively seem so outlandish when there is the possibility that they don’t have to... because they have an endless supply. Because they are the same. They are both the timeless child OR they are both the one that figured it out.
They are the same. They are eternal.
To me that’ll be more poetic than them being one half of this ancient duo but we shall see...
Hmmmm, interesting theory 🙂
Hmmmm, interesting theory 🙂
@@CulturePhilter thank you. Obviously it may be entirely waffle but it’s a storyline I hope they one day explore... plus a Master spin off series detailing their nefarious exploits could be just what’s needed to wash the sickly sweet and rather unfulfilling Chibnall experiment from the senses
Since we now have bigeneration, maybe the Master & Doctor were once a single person…
Theoretically….
I really liked the Timeless Child plotline, and while it had its problems it was a far cry from the show-ruining blunder that a lot of fans make it out to be.
I've heard the Doctor = Tecteun and Master = Timeless Child theory before, but this wraps it up very neatly, and as someone who tries to do the same thing himself, I really appreciate fan theories that account for lots of plotlines and plot holes at once. Your approach is solid, and I especially like it because of how it indirectly harkens back to two moments from Doctor Who history:
1) A Good Man Goes to War shows this idea that the Doctor's actions can redefine words across the history of the Universe, particularly the word 'Doctor'. So, the Doctor's secret original persona also being a doctor, but one that abused and took advantage of people, ties into this nicely. It recontextualizes the Doctor's overall mission as one of redeeming that word.
2) The Master being the Timeless Child ties back in to the Time Lords, particularly Rassilon, putting the drumbeat in his head, effectively ruining his life by driving him to madness. It cements the Master's status as a victim to the manifest destiny, colonialist ideals of the Time Lords.
Wow, Just seen your video about the Doctor not being the Timeless Child. Several months ago I had the thought that the Master was the Timeless Child the way he has had loads of body's over the years through all the other media. I totally agree with what you are saying about it all.
haven't seen this theory before, although i suspect it myself as well. you weaved many different things into this one, I think its great, and in my opinion really makes a lot of sense.
Thanks 🙂
@@CulturePhilter oh well. was a good guess though
What a great theory/idea! And likely head and shoulders above and beyond anything the DW writers come up with. Love it!
Great theory. I like it. But maybe the timeless child and the Doctor are products of the genetic engineering & splicing caused when Tectuan threw herself into the loom to escape Rassilon. Maybe the loom split Tectuan's genetic code into two separate entities, the timeless child as well as the little boy who would later become the Time Lord known as the Doctor?. So basicly the Doctor was reconstituted from the looms on Gallefrey & the timeless child was flung into the vortex to be later discovered by Tectuan stand outside a portal on a distant planet. So basicly if this is true, Tectuan created the timeless child & the Doctor. This means Tectuan effectively created herself🤔...Paradox🤪
That was a lot more complicated than my theory, but from the time I heard about it, I knew that the master was the timeless child and just wanted to get back at the doctor, so being tectun would be right inline with that.
I expected the timeless child to be the master. As he never dies forever. Was quite disappointed it was the doctor.
I think that there's more to tecteun than they showed.
Oh yes , there is a lot more to Tecteun , or Rassilon, as we have always known her . That's one big thing , Rassilon and Tecteun being one and the same ancient Shabogon Spacelord Gallifreyan Timelord, Rassilontechteun . Remember we have only her version of events as to what happened when she was exploring the universe alone for many many years until she returns home to Gallifrey with a child . Her child. Her actual biological child , a half Gallifreyan half human with one heart that can Regenerate , that she knew she was going to have to kill repeatedly In order to figure out how to harness that ability and regain the immortality she feels unjustly robbed of by the Katurah. Immortality has been an obsession for Rassilontecteun for quite literally nearly the entire lifetime of the universe. We know she found an Untempered schism, we know she had a sample of The 9th Doctor's blood and the data from analyzing Rose Tyler's blood and her scientist determined very quickly that The Doctor was a far distant future Gallifreyan. We know the recipe Madame Gavarian In the far distant future uses to cook herself up a Regenerating Timelord in the form of River Song. Human DNA plus time vortex radiation exposure en utero ...... We know The Doctor is half human and half Gallifreyan... We have known The Doctor is the Timeless child since Ghost Monument. we have known The Doctor was The Other since the late eighties. The Other was said to be not entirely Gallifreyan... Rassilontechteun found an Untempered schism, Stargate, barrier , rift in SpaceTime , whatever you call it, and did what any scientist explorer would , set up her home away from home right at the base of the thing to study the crap out of it ... Eventually traversing it to somewhere remotely stable say the rift in Cardiff in the far distant future .... Who's the daddy though Wilfred Mott? Captain Jack ? Who knows? Coshamas? But Rassilontechteun more than likely intentionally got herself pregnant by a future human and cooked herself up her timeless child by returning to base camp and having her kid carried born and raised next to the gateway , gave her the same head start Madame Gavarian had In making River Song , the kid had most likely already Regenerated at least once before they returned to Gallifrey and so Rassilontechteun told a tiny fib and claimed her halfbreed offspring was an orphaned alien from another universe ....
My preferred answer is the Doctor is the child of a Human and Timelord of the future, The Doctor did mention he was from the far future in the original pilot, with half human/half gallifreyan DNA he may not have a limit to the number of regenerations like normal Gallifrey and (like Hybrid Lion and Tigresses, Ligers don't carry the limiter gene for size and Ligers being 3 times the size of Lions and Tigers), If this child was to have an accident near the time schism he could be blasted into the past, becoming a living Paradox being the founder of his own race, Techteun would not recognise his human half DNA so she recognise an alien, but discovers the other half is advanced Gallifreyan DNA that she can splice into her own. This would also answer all the questions.
Such a fun, enjoyable video, and it makes so much sense! Good work :)
Thank you 🙂
I love this theory and the inclusion of the looms was amazing.
Also do you think it could be Rassilon who comes out and spills the beans if this theory turns out to be true because Rassilon is exiled from Gallifrey and besides from the master and doctor is possibly the only other living timelord and may know some more information that the master didn’t uncover?
I should have really mentioned modern day Rassilon in the video.
In this theory modern day Rassilon doesn’t know that the Doctor is Tecteun. (I think he wouldn’t have allowed the extra regenerations to be granted to dying 11th Doctor if he did know)
But he could also somehow discover it now. It would be a good way to bring him back and have the reveal.
This is my kind of theory! I approve of all these connections and building it up!
The one tricky part is where the Fugitive Doctor fits in exactly
Series 6b 🙂
so time lords all had to get that treatment so a time lord that was born a little while ago would need that treatment in order to regenerate
Tatuem could be the Rani. She was a biologist and may of found the Timeless Child not necessary the Doctor? Another theory Tatuem could be Ruth's Doctor the title was given by the Timelords? Before our Doctor got the title? The Timeless Child could be the Master? Clara or Ashilder could also be Ruth's Doctor. They had a TARDIS.
Clara and Ashilda aren’t Timelord though, so wouldn’t have show up as such on the scans that the time lords looking Ruth in that episode took.
accepting this as canon
I've said all along that The Master is a far better fit for The Timeless Child.
Interesting theory that has a lot of speculation, some of which I can agree with and a couple of bits I don't, mainly the half human parts. Yet, I also don't hate the idea of them being Tecteun/The Other, if they're going to be someone other than the Doctor we know. You could also add in that before he originally left Gallifrey with Susan, he was due to take his position as Lord President. It's referenced in either The Deadly Assassin or The Five Doctors, I can't remember which. That is a position that fits Tecteun's status, with Rassilon not being around.
Oh yes, loads of speculation. But that’s what fan-theories are, taking the scraps of what we know and speculating the in-between.
@@CulturePhilter Of course and we wouldn't want it any other way. A big part of the show's enjoyment is the speculation, at least it is for me and obviously you too. Your speculation fits a lot better than many other theories I've seen, like Susan being The Timeless Child.
A better fit but not a perfect one because the Doctor and Master being on level pegging is a precious thing.
wow i love this theory i think tectaun did far more we have not seen yet. because in my head tectaun did wrong she/ he pick a name to undone some of what she/he did wrong (doctor). on top of this a great way to find out is could be from river song. as i side note when the Timeless Child is fighting on cliff do u think thats any one the boy. as for the master being the Timeless Child this would work being he/she comes back even after killing theirself. the only part that needs a little work around is that the doctor now has a name the master could of this made up tectaun or he said "there was a scientist called tectaun" maybe was her job title. thanks for making me think great video
I’m not to fussed about knowing her original name.
Yes. Great theory... But... I'd tweak it..Tectuen wasn't experimenting on the child...but trying to SAVE it! The child kept dying then regenerating. Tectuen was desperately trying to STABILIZE the Timeless Child.
But isn't Tecteun the "weeping angel" that the Doctor sees behind Rassilon in "The End of Time"?
That’s only speculation.
Its a decent theory but it falls flat due to cannon, We've already seen a previous incarnation of doctor of pre-hartnell era who also called herself Doctor. Second problem was the flashbacks of the policeboy incarnation being tortured. Third issue is the name itself doesn't ring any bells for Doctor...Doctor's name is earth shattering secret, openly taking the name is supposed to create a shock in her when she hears the Tecteun name.
In my Theory I'd like to believe this is all done to create the entry of Valeyard. The day doctor truly fell apart and remembered everything of how he was robbed of his powers, tortured, used and thrown after doing alot of unspeakable deeds. This ties into Hybrid theory "A mix of two warrior races" "The one who will stand in ruins of gallifrey" "He will destroy a Billion hearts to heal his own" fits perfectly if Doctor himself was the one who ruined Gallifrey and Master saw it, confirming that he's the Timeless Child who is now Valeyard, plunged himself into suicidal frenzy after realizing his inferiority. He atleast wanted him to be the reason why doctor fucked everyone up to unseal his own potential power which was distributed to everyone.
All the time this running, was because he was afraid of the coming valeyard which is manifestation of his dark emotions. He knew what he'd do if he was left just like that, so he went out. I'd consider the story rubbish until they mentioned Valeyard multiples of times and even in the special. It means they are creating a way for him to jump in.
If you mean The Doctor from fugitive of the Judoon it’s only been SPECULATED that she’s a pre-Hartnell Doctor. Still possible she’s either future Doctor or somewhere after Hartnell and before Whittaker that she somehow forgot. (Best likely hood for that is between Doctors 2 and 3)
I rather like this - and I've always thought there was much more potential in the Master being the Timeless Child than the Doctor. Nice one!
Interesting idea, the third Doctor does rember living for thousands of years so possibly he was Techteun. But if so the show ends as we learn Who is DoctorTechteun.
Maybe it should end...nothing lasts forever.
Tecteun returns in flux and remembers the doctor tho
This video was made before Flux. As with all theory videos there is always the risk of them getting proven wrong later. 🤷♂️
That might explain how the master knew about the Brendan dreams
ok this is a dope theory
Nice theory but i have one thing to point out if the doctor really is half human and aware if this fact how he can say in the doctor donna story that a mixture of timelord and human never existed before
It made more sense for the Doctor to be Tecteun than being the Timeless Child. Him being "The Doctor" who experimented on a child, and ran away to make up for it. It would also help justify the Masters actions (or at least in his own mind), no matter what he did, at least he'd never done THAT.
As for The Timeless Child? Well the Doctor did leave his homeworld with a child, his Granddaughter Susan, so maybe . . .
Peter Capaldi’s doctor also name dropped the shabogans when talking to Clara in the matrix. In hell bent
The name comes from a classic series episode originally I believe.
Tecteun sounds to me more like the Rani.
Yes they do have quite a lot in common. Scientists with no ethics
I like this, maybe the Timelord secret was discovered by Faction Paradox, and they become the new long term enemy since Gallifrey and the Timelords are destroyed (again)
That would defiantly be interesting material for expanded universe stories.
I love this theory because then this would open up a awesome story arc of the doctor trying to redeem herself making her question her moral compass
Here's another bit that's been hinted at that would fit right in: The Master and The Doctor, (plus The Valeyard and presumable others) are all regenerations of this other we now know as Tecteun. The Master has laughed at the Doctor, saying something to the effect that so long as The Doctor exists, he will exist. I would speculate that The Master is the earlier incarnation, and The Doctor came later. That they were children together would only require a little time travel.
brilliant idea- id go for this wholeheartedly.
Great theory. Just wondering how you would explain The Fugitive Doctor?
I think she might not be pre-Hartnell but between Troughton and Pertwee. Some expanded universe stuff has the Doctor being used by time lords for missions during that gap and then memory wiped before being eventually banished to earth so maybe there was a whole regen in there too. That would explain why her TARDIS is a police box too.
@@CulturePhilter ah cool. Yeah they have started that Season 6b stuff on Big Finish, will see what they do with the Fugitive Doctor in future. I just don't think this was Chibnals plan, but great theory, wish it was cannon.
@@SRogerson91 we may never get any definitive confirmation of where she fits….. or some showrunner in 20 years time might decided to make it explicit. Who knows? 😄
Yes please. Lets have it.
All I had to hear was the first sentence, and I'm satisfied.
Master being Timeless Child also explains why he seemed to have other abilities like being able to take over Tremas's body!
Very much enjoyed this. If only, eh? One thing I wonder if you could explain: if Tecteun’s DNA is shared with a human’s from Earth, wouldn’t this make the Doctor the child of Tecteun rather than Tecteun? Might be misunderstanding the premise of looms!
I suppose it could be looked at that way. Good point.
EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!
Tbh I’d rather the Doctor have started with William Hartnell hence staying the same but have some other time lord of importance being the timeless child. Then somehow make Jo Martin become the 14th Doctor with memories lost after the regeneration then she wouldn’t remember being Jodie, as we don’t know who the Ruth Dr can remember being.
True but the 1st Doctor being the 1st incarnation of that Time Lord is a ship that had already sailed a long time ago back in the Tom Baker era with ‘The Morbius’ Doctors.
@@CulturePhilter I disagree that that ship sailed with the Morbius Doctors. There's nothing to say that those regens happened pre-Hartnell, or that they were genuine regens. It could have been a lie, although to be fair I don't remember the episode that well to add more than it being a possibility when dealing with baddies.
Lwaves - true but then anything we’re ever told on the should COULD be a lie.
@@CulturePhilter If you want to go to the extremes, then yes. However, when that info has come from an enemy of the Doctor and goes against what has been established over the years by believable sources, then I tend to lean more towards that enemy stating a lie rather than the truth. But that's me.
@@CulturePhilter very true haha 😂
That's a brilliant theory
Thank you.
@@CulturePhilter anytime give credit were it's due
What if tecteun was the Doctor grandmother that would be really cool
My problem with it is if the Doctor was Tecteun, that means he was responsible for killing the child over and over and over. Not sure that's where we want this to land.
That depends on if you consider forcing a regeneration as killing. If it is then the 12th Doctor is also a murderer.
You ignoring Zagarus ;-) . Space Vampire DNA is still used for regeneration . Cold Fusion is still valid btw so we know The Other is opposed to Rassilon and works against him after Rassilons death (lungbarrow and Cold Fusion ) . Looms are a part of the sisterhood of Khan civil war . So i think its more likely that Tectuan is killed by Rassilon . Looms are after Phyrias curse , but natural birth does return . 6,7,8 and 10 all stated he was not half human (he lied ;-)) .
This is very interesting and there's a lot of potential in this. Totally absorbing.
Literally had the same theory of the master being the timeless child and he's solely messing with the Dr so he gets just a little bit of revenge for what happened.
I still believe her to be the woman from hell bent and the woman from end of time but this would definitely make the doctor's timeline complex and at this point screw it let's do it haha
The Woman from The End of Time is almost certainly Romana
@@markfernkopf5133 rtd was saying he thinks it Doctor mom But he left it up to the viewers to decide
@@GeeksAssemble the viewers and/or a future showrunner to decide , The Timeless Children indicates (when you take in what we already know) The Doctor's biological mother is Rassilontechteun... With Chibnal filling in all Doctor Who plotholes ever without a single retcon and Romana being president of Gallifrey until The Time War eventually lead her to waking up Rassilontechteun from his snooze , Romana makes the most sense and I wouldn't put it past Chibnal to show that , filling in yet another of the many plotholes that he is filling in so perfectly
@@markfernkopf5133 I just got my headcanon of her being women from end of time and hell bent till the show says otherwise
@@GeeksAssemble The show itself has already heavily implied that Rassilon and Tecteun are one and the same person , combined with Timelord Victorious you can call that point confirmed Beyond any reasonable doubt , likely this season will see The Doctor track down and confront Rassilon about Tecteun at the end of the universe, at the end of everything expect the company of immortals, accusing him of killing her "adoptive" mother .
No, Doctor. I am your Mother.
No. That's not true. That's impossible.
Search your Human feelings and use your Gallifreyan brains and you'll know it be true.
But one problem - I think the whole point of Doctor Who is keeping the Doctor's name a mystery. If the Doctor's name is Tecteun, the biggest question will be solved, and there will be no point of Doctor Who.
💛 ( watched it again. )
the dr could be micky mouse with Chibnell wrighting ?
Now this is a retcon I'm behind.
This theory could very well be true, its so acceptable, incredible work.
Thank you
You need to be show runner you've got better ideas than I'm afraid Chibnall won't come up with
Too much assuming here. There's nothing supporting Tecteun just randomly splicing themselves with a human. Like that's completely out of left field. And, the Swarm confirms in the last episode The Division's mind wipe was total, not a trace pre-Hartnell left in her mind, so there would be no tugging.
Thanks for commenting. There is assumptions, yes. To fill in gaps and make things established elsewhere (novels etc) that might otherwise contradict work together. That’s what fan theorizing is all about.
And this was made before the current series so yes, it might need tweaking with more information we might get.
@@CulturePhilter Oh I get theorizing, but assumptions should have a launching point based in established fact. The Doctor saying he's half human in the 90s TV movie doesn't really justify the leap in logic for Tecteun to be splicing with human. As for memories, well, here's the current theory I'm working under, basically the TARDIS is what's tugging at him not her own memories
1. Division Doctor incarnations ARE pre-Hartnel.
2. Yet, Division Doctor's Tardis was a Police Box, and buried...
3. Division Doctor eventually is caught. Mind Wiped and forced into a new set of regenerations starting with Hartnell.
4. Even with the mind wipe something continues to tug at the Doctor. Maybe.... his old TARDIS...
5. This leads him to steal a TARDIS, or as the TARDIS put it she stole him.
6. Remember Clara telling the Hartnell Doctor "You're making a mistake, don't steal that one, take this one"
7. Hartwnell Doctor steals the TARDIS used by the Division Doctor. Why should it matter what TARDIS he steals, especially an... OLDER model.
8. We know the TARDIS is sentient, and can "break itself" if it wants. I maintain the chameleon circuit was never really broken, but his TARDIS using the police box as a way to try and jog the Doctor's memory, like when Smith Doctor chose the Capaldi face to remind the Doctor of the fires of Pompeii and THAT'S why it's stuck as a Police Box.
This makes a lot of sense.
You know what? This is actually a good idea.
Thank you.
Really good theory. I like it. I will never be on board with timeless child but I like how you made it work. But how does this explain River? Why didn't Clara see these past lives when she jumped into the doctor's time stream
Do you mean why can River regenerate and the explanation that it’s because she was conceived in the vortex?
Well...we don’t know how the Timeless Child/their race got that ability. It might still have had something to do with time vortex. Perhaps they are a race that LIVE/LIVED in the vortex.
as for Clara that’s easy. Tecteun being reformed by the loom sort of acts as a road block in their timeline. So Clara hits that road block and stops traveling back along the timeline.
Actually River Song helps explain The Timeless Child, thanks to River Song, we know the recipe for cooking yourself up a Regenerating Timelord , human dna plus en utero vortex radiation exposure. Madame guavorian later used the same recipe to create River Song that Rassilontecteun used to create The Timeless Child , we know she discovered an opening into the fabric of space time , an Untempered schism to the time vortex itself whilst exploring alone , many years later she returns home with a child , we know The Doctor is half human , Rassilontechteun would not be the first mother in Doctor Who to pretend completley that her child was not her child , The Empty Child comes to mind .....
As for clara not seeing any of the pre-Doctor incarnations , that's easy , the open wound they were driving into , the tracks of The Doctor's tears, only started when The Doctor started time traveling. Non of the pre-Doctor incarnations ever traveled in time ... And if they did , they would have been 💯 observation only. Absolutely no interacting with people places things or events in times other than there own . Zero exceptions. When The First Doctor stole a TARDIS and ran away , that was his first time traveling through time in which he actually did interact with the people places and things he encounters, that's when the tracks of his tears begins , so the great intelligence couldn't have attacked any of the pre-Doctor incarnations, and Clara couldn't have seen any of The Pre-doctor incarnations nor would there be a pre-Doctor incarnation newly in trouble due to attach from the gi facilitating the need of a clara to save them
This would be the best possible result for this storyline.
Someone send this to Chibbs so we can fix the garbage fire that s12 caused...
When I was growing up my friend and I was saying that the Doctor could be Rassilon
I think back in the classic era that could have been a possibility but since they met (in End of Time and then He’ll Bent) I don’t think that could fit now.
Yeah, both don't fit in the narrative or the regeneration cycles so The Doctor being the Timeless Child or the Tecteun don't make sense. For example, if the Time lords learned how to recreate regeneration, why just 12? Why not give themselfs an infinite number of regenerations? Why did River have the ability to regenerate?
Not bad. But what if the Doctor is both Tecteun and the Timeless child. Imagine that the Doctor with endless regenerations leads countless lives. Travels through time, space, and universes but at some point tries to find where it all started, or any other time lord, what ever reason they travel through the gate way, do not survive and regenerate into the timeless Child.
Tecteun finds the child and succeeds with the DNA transfer only because the DNA has so many similarities with their own. Now Tecteun lives on through your theory. Outliving Rassilan and the Master... everyone until they have lead countless lives. Finally travelling back to the begging to start the loop all over again.
I loved it, a fresh approach
Amazing theory! I agree that it would make more sense for the Master to be the Timeless Child but I hadn't thought about the Doctor being Tecteun. Brilliant. And it shifts the Doctor/Master relationship from a sibling type rivalry to more of a guardian and child. I love the idea of Tecteun being in the Ireland flashbacks to protect the Timeless Child. My only thought about the looms is that maybe the time travel experiments have caused infertility. It would appear the Shobogan's can have children and I can't see them having looms or advanced technology. Or because they are the scientific elite they view physical reproduction to be below their status (like in Demolition Man!) so they use the DNA looms to have designer babies. We also know from Amy and Rory that if you have sex in a Tardis your child has the power of regeneration so maybe the Time Lords, trying to protect their secret, want to limit reproduction or they may have deliberately sterilised themselves. We haven't actually seen very many female Time Lords in the history of the show.
i like this alot!!!!
Great theroy/theory. Typo in title by the way 😉
Thanks. Or maybe there’s a secret message in the video about a man named Roy. THE Roy.
@@CulturePhilter TheRoy, missing R, Rory? Lone Centurion out soon, Rory's the Omega...
... nah
nope.
Indeed. It is the curse of all fan theory’s that they may one day be proved catagorically wrong by an episode. This theory’s day for that has arrived 😄
I see a doctor and someone's DNA being copied, a "master-copy", if you wheeeeeel.
Also, "Am I a good Man?" becomes the conclusion of a redemption arc. As she was a horrible Tecteun
Regenerating back to a female form is reward, but now she must face her past crimes.
If she is tectuen it could support my theory of Susan being the child instead, both wiped their memories and the Doctor brought Susan with them instead of leaving on their own as the Doctor could've disagreed with what they're doing to Susan now.
"i wanted to make you more like me" the master
I think the timeless child is ...... River Song
Interesting... anything in particular that makes you think that? 🙂
@@CulturePhilter at the end of the episode The day of the moon white Melody Pond regenerates into a black girl. Tecteun finds a black girl who looks like the actress Melody regenerated into. It would also explain why River only had enough regeneration energy to revive the doctor.