Thanks for this. They all sound identical. I extracted the audio, and played it to some musician friends blind. It is amazing how fast the differences vanish when you don't know in advance what you are listening to.
For me it was an even smaller difference than tone wood or fret material. I accept that I most likely wouldn't be able to tell except for the two most extreme differences unless you labeled them as the OP did in the video. Best one was the Russian PIO, but again, not something at all to worry about unless you're min-maxing what the removal of that hissy/sibilant overtone that many guitars have.
The cleanest and most thorough test I’ve seen. Ive been convinced to change my opinion on this a dozen times and you’ve put it to rest in my opinion. I’m very thankful for my ears because the differences clear to me and more extreme than id have assumed at a best case. Thank you. As for myself, playing with tone adjustments one chord strum at a time is about as fun as actually playing guitar. I guess partly Cuz i can look forward to using the tones. Point is i spend plenty time making micro adjustments throughout my chain exploring tonal differences. And often they are for as much or even less variation than you’ve demonstrated here. Good job man.
These are the tests I have been looking for. Thank you for this video. To me there is very little difference to worry about them. From now on I will simply use what I have or reclaimed.
You must be a master at organization. I would have been lost half way through the video editing and gave up. Thanks for posting this. All your videos are great.
I realise this is older video but I'm just learning about capicators while having my Jazzmaster built. Most helpful video + explanation of the difference I've encountered it's extremely helpful to me. Thank you Jeff
I just would like to say that I appreciate your consistency in what you play, and your documentation in instruments/recording gear, and devotion to accuracy; its like a scientific method approach to guitar tones (not so strictly treble volume however). It is very well done, you should keep it up .
What possible reason can there for 12 people to vote this down. This guy goes to all this effort to demonstrate this for YOUR education and it's still not good enough!
Well, as long as these capacitors don't have the exact same value, this 'test' makes no sense. Everyone of this capacitors has a tolerance of at least 5% and probably up to 25%. That's the little difference you can hear.
What a great test....... I listened close with my old ears and struggled to notice any real difference. As I thought because of my electronic schooling I did not really hear any difference that mattered to me at least (maybe others), ever so slight maybe and even then I questioned my hearing. A lot of snake oil goes into selling upgrades. I think we should all just focus more on our playing :-). Pickups make a big difference and yes you need decent electronics/wiring and not pure crap components but the test shows that these changes did not really make a difference that mattered. Cheers guys!!
Old capacitors usually raise in value, which would be the #1 difference. The differences from one to another amount mostly to the differences in tolerance. Most stock caps will vary up to 10% from their stated value, meaning that 2 could be 20% apart.
@@DeadKoby I have looked at several manufacturer's ageing information and also a research paper, and at least for ceramics and electrolytics, capacitance is lost with age.
Thank you for producing this comprehensive comparison. I can hear slight differences, but the differences are minuscule compared to the tone differences one can achieve with attack changes. Perhaps the capacitor differences are more apparent in some genres than others? I play old school R&B, R&R and Blues ('40s, '50s and '60s mainly) with the guitar straight in to an old tube amp. Whenever the topic of guitar tone caps comes up in discussions I refer participants to this video. Thanks again!
I can hear a remarkable difference. I was surprised how much the low end shifted between some of the material types (paper in oil was especially different), as well as the difference in mids and highs between all the caps, even with the volume on 10. Certain caps had a totally different mid character. This video is fascinating, thanks for doing it!
Thanks a bunch for doing this. your A-B comparisons with the Bill Nye wire setups have answered a lot of questions that 6 hours of reading articles over the past few days did not. I have a better idea what parts to order now. My wife is grateful that I wont have to spend a week with wires everywhere doing all the comparisons myself.
John, thank you for being so precise and scientific with all of your comparison videos, you make it easy to compare different elements of the guitar and to decide with confidence. …..and I'm a bass player!
Yes Sir. Good demonstration. All these capacitors are quite similar but there are little details in the sound. I´ve never thought the capacitor could modify in this way the sound. Thanks for your effort.
Interesting, I went into this video really only knowing paper in oil caps where "better for tone" during the test its what I thought sounded best. The power of suggestion is strong....
Before I read that others had posted that they liked the Fat Gray's I had chosen them as well for best tone. Just a more rounded tone. Thanks for the vid. Effective effort to teach. Now its off to Part 2.
Vintage Vibe P90s. I rarely come across those. I bought a set of eBay and love them. About the capacitors....I am going to be massively unpopular but I prefer the openess and slightly lighter touch of the Epiphone originals on most of these tests. I guess that makes me a cheap date. Thanks for the posting. A lot of thorough and informative work.
Russian PIO and the Fat Gray +1 with Mallory close behind. Thank you so much for doing this... I didn't realize the cap made so much difference with tone pot wide open. I always thought it affected the tone as you introduced the pot resistance.
Well, listing on studio monitors, here's what I think. Of course you have to turn speaker volume up a bit. The ones I think mentioning: ***Mallory: most evenly EQ'd, great clarity with tightest bass. No wonder tube amp builders use these. ****Russian PIO: best mids, warm clarity and punch. Retained tone better when turning pots down (fits guitar freq's best). **Vintage Yellow Film/Foil: Less bass and mids, highs little harsh, but actually close to the PIO but less natural. *Mullard Mustard-Fat Grey: Awkward sound, too much flabby bass and pretty muddy to my ears. Maybe best for thin sounding guitar. **Tropical Fish: Decent clarity, plenty of highs, but mids were lacking. Not a bad cap. .
I do honestly appreciate your efforts here, as they are obviously honest and well intended to educate and freely share what information you gather. Might I kindly suggest however, that the results and observations from this comparison are left completely susceptible to unintentional corruption by not being conducted in a double-blind manner. If you were able to find the time to repeat these comparisons, but this time maintaining a constant tested value while ensuring that both the player and the listener had no knowledge of what cap was engaged at what time, I believe you would come away with entirely different conclusions in the end.
I offered no opinions or conclusions in this video- I've left it up to the viewer. In my notes below the video, I include a link to the recordings so you can conduct your own double blind test using a tool like ABX. I measured all the cap values on camera in the followup videos, parts 3&4.
True, and you've been very forthright in all your methods, and generous in your efforts to allow for individual judgements. In the follow up videos you do suggest however, that differences heard may likely be due to different properties of the dielectrics, and your videos are often cited by others to support this theory. I would simply and respectfully suggest however, that changes heard may be due to other influences, from player consistency (a daunting control near impossible to eliminate variances with in situ testing), to subconscious influence on the player as much as the listener, regardless how pure their intentions. I've tried for years to verify existence of a dielectric tonal influences in double blind tests, where neither the player nor listener was aware of what cap was engaged in any position, with tests designed only to identify a change rather than a preference or subjective description. Once carried out in a double blind test however, I've yet to find a single person who could demonstrate abilities to accurately identify a difference, regardless of how much I tried to allow for ideal opportunity. I do believe that if you were ever to repeat similar tests in a double blind scenario, you would likely find difficulty verifying any dielectric influence here as well. Again, all respect and gratitude to you, as you've freely contributed great amounts of good information to the public with your videos, and have lot's of bigger fish to fry with this work in the past. I just feel these cap evaluations may have lacked suitable controls to ensure changes perceived were indeed caused by the subject being examined. I've posted videos with an abbreviated snapshot of the testing methods I've used over the years if you're interested.
A2Guitars All valid points. It is indeed hard to make strong conclusions in an uncontrolled playing environment such as this I have thought about rigging up a noise generator and spectrum analyzer and doing a new series of recordings, but in the end haven't had the time/passion to undertake it .
I personally can't hear too much difference, I'm willing to bet that a lot of it is due to the tolerances of the cap materials, but either way, that's a really nice sounding guitar!
The people who can tell the difference either don’t have a good speaker setup or can’t tune their guitar without an electronic device to tell them it’s in tune. Good review and thanks for going to the effort to do it. I’m a Russian paper & oil (Vitamin Q or Bumblebees) with usually 50’s style wiring myself. Thanks again.
I have often wondered about this kind of thing and to my ears the differences are not enough for me to worry about, if there are any differences at all. It's not enough for me to rush out and get a expensive paper in oil or whatever because so and so uses one and swears by it. Tone is so subjective and if guitars players obsessed over playing as much as they do over silly things like this there would probably be a lot better players out there ! lol having said that I am just as guilty as everyone else about this kind of thing. Sometimes you just have to step back and take a breath. Thank you John for taking the time to do this, nice job !
hi john. i think its like a lot of things a matter of taste. i have done a passive treble and bass control on my strat.came out well, with the treble bleed on the vol pot.the caps i used were old mustard one they had most responce. but thanks its good to see others take pride in sound. and love these types of videos. thankyou
I found this so useful. Though I do think how old your strings are and playing technique have more effect on tone than the material of the caps, I could hear some difference - had to close my eyes and listen several times though. Many thanks for going to the trouble of doing this - a real public service. Just checked your blog now and dusting off the soldering iron.
The orange drop has a more zesty low-high end and the Russian paper oil has a more slick readable under bite while the vintage yellow cylinder has more purple relish undertones.
I swear there are differences and discrepancies with folks ability to hear because I always hear the differences. It has to be why certain folks are drawn to cooking, great at racing cars, like sex a bit more....you name it and someone out there is more sensitive to it. Great job and thank you 🙏
The PIO sounds very nice, but I was suprised by the vintage yellow one (which sounds like the PIO but with a hint more treble through),and the tropical fish. Those 3 would be the best IMO. Very nice! thank you
I'm with you Adam. There is some difference, but I certainly wouldn't go to any trouble to go out and find the say the Russian one and actually replace the part. I think for some gear heads it is important (and entertaining) to get the 'best' of everything. For me, I tend to just work with what I have and make it work rather than going crazy to find 'the perfect tone'
Brilliant! For me the Yellow Cylinders came out on top. The Russian PIO sounded too muddy. Also, in fairness, the orange drop gives a great clear crisp tone. I can see why Gibson favours them. I'd probably go with that too if I wanted to get the best all round crispness from Burstbuckers. On the 57's I'd definitely go vintage electronics.
Great video, very helpful to me as I've recently changed the pickups and control plate, wiring etc on my Tele. Didn't quite get the tone I was looking for. I can rule out the caps as the differences are negligible. Thanks very much
I just did this with a vintage style Strat and the difference seemed larger. I was using a .1uF cap (much higher) and preferred the russian PIO for a full classic rock/blues sound. A lot of it depends on the volume you play, OD levels, type of music and what you like to hear.
Mallory wins to my ears. I do think it is a matter of taste. Can't say objectively which is better. The Mallory is the sweetest to me. But what is sweet? The differences are so slight too. Different amps could make me choose another too. I love these kinds of tests!
Maybe I missed this, but did you measure the actual capacitance of all the products tested. I suspect that differences in tone are due to variations in capacitance, not due to the choice of dielectric material.
The Chicago music exchange Gibson relic style caps I just seen a vid where they pull of the plastic nostalga cover and its a Wesco 32 cap. but is useful for relic and original appearance as well as refurbished playing classic guitars.
Just a demo I was looking for, thx, but I think it would be much more "scientific" if you had a looper and put that trough all caps as it would rule out any differences in fingering and picking strength.
Great video! Honestly I couldn't tell any difference but on two. The factory cap seemed slightly brighter, and the tropical fish seemed slightly fuller. I'm a bass builder / player, not a guitar player however. I'd like to do the same test with a jazz bass. I think the results are subjective, each person will hear little differences to each cap and can perhaps like one over the other.
Nothing worth taking a soldering iron to a guitar for, IMO. Any noticeable difference is likely to be down to tolerance variation between the different caps, not construction materials. Great job with the vid though.
No way. Just listened to this with a set of headphones while laying on my couch while my computer is on the desk. Lots of difference in shimmer and harmonics I can hear. Not super drastic but you can absolutely hear difference in these tones. Because the tone cuts frequencies in the highs you really have to focus your ear to these frequencies and how they effect the mid and bass.
There are some that say u can hear a difference in the material that a cap is made of and that some are better than others . Believe he is doing this demo so whoever may hear it, can kno and understand for themselves if there is a difference or not. Some have already decided they cant tell a difference between any of em. Which i believe was the purpose of this vid. Least thats the way it seems to me. Hell i couldnt hear any difference either. Cheers
Of course there is a variation of picking, but we can find the tendency. BRIGHT&THIN=Mallory, Original Epiphone DARK&(bit)MUDDY=RussianPaper, Vintage Fat Gray FAT&Responsable=OrangeDrop, Vintage Yellow But this tendency has changed when TONE=1, Mallory& Original Epiphone got muddy. I don't put Orange Drops into my amplifier too often, but it sounds good on your video. Thank you for a valiable shootout!
As subtle as it may be I can hear a difference in every one of the capacitors. Many sounded very similar but the fact that he rapidly progressed through the series of examples being compared enabled my ears to hear differences. The graphic display showed, for the most part, the same frequencies being dumped and the frequencies that remained, which where exactly the same for all capacitors, yet the amplitudes varied noticeably for the remaining frequencies, with the amplitude curves either smoothed out or jagged with spikes. And having no incremented reference as to the amplitude of a given frequency, which on an oscilloscope would be the (+) or (-) voltage reference of the sine wave, it's hard to say how much more or less a capacitor affected each frequency displayed with the graphics. Not everyone is able to hear these differences, just like not every guitar player can play by ear. Not every guitar player can hear the intervals or the modes, but they can learn to play the song. Some people hear the music from some inner source, while others learn it externally. In the ancient Greek language there are two ways "to know"; One is "Ghenosko" an outward and learned knowledge. The other is "Oida" an inward and conscious knowledge of the heart. And here I must say that because you can't hear see or feel what someone else does doesn't mean it's wrong and it's the result of a vivid imagination. Remember not everyone can play the guitar. Those of us who can are blessed with that gift and we shouldn't be demeaning someone else for theirs because we don't have it. Anyway enough said. There is a difference in the capacitors tone's as in our capacity to hear...
Great demonstrating of the small differences in tone between different caps man. What voltage are all those caps? It might atribute to tonal differences..
To me, the Mallory was the most articulate and least muddy as the tone was rolled off. The Russian PIO was next. The Orange Drop is LAST! YOWSA! Granted, the attack might have been slightly different as each pass occured, but to consistently play clearer when just the Mallory was in, is hard to believe was intentional or a coincidence. Enough passes that led to the same conclusion happened for me to trust my judgement. YMMV! VERY COOL!
Great comparison vid. The PIO and Orange Drop are the most musical for sure. The Epiphone and Tropical Fish are most harsh(in a subtle way) and have no life to them.
All 22nF sound the same, 33nf a bit darker. But having more expensive cap makes audiophile happier. So go for it who needs it. I've got mallory radial polypropylene 22nf to prevent thinking that something could compromise my sound in guitar, but I don't really believe that it changes anything. Just avoid tantalum, ceramics and electrolitycs. You could even create Your own caps if You like, just copper foil, paper, candle, 2 wires. Audiophiles hear with their eyes, that's the secret. Great job!
Great vid! I heard more of a difference with the pot on 10 to 5. No difference when turned to zero. Def proves I'm not insane noticing a difference in tone with having caps in even with it full up.
thanks for the video. so I'm using my new sony mdr-10rst head phones wired, I favor the old yeller, next as a 'general' frequency spread, the original cap from epie. Next to that the fish cap. I'm sure if I'd amp this through the home 4way set, and carver amps it would be different still. I've built many home speakers and everything has something different! Man its just cool how sound can change to every ones ears!
There isn't any audable difference to concern any one to go and change their similar caps.Then we have other variables like pickups, amp and speakers room acoustics and so on.Probably best using your time to perfect your playing.
Too lazy to read through all comments, but was wondering: did you test the actual cap values? If they're +/-5% (or worse), some of the differences could be due to values. ESR ratings would also be of interest. Great vid showing some great work. Thanks for this!
I find myself most enjoying the mallory and fat gray cylinder, I also liked the yellow cylinder and paper-in-oil for most examples, and they really shone on a few. Honorable mention: tropical fish, which was really cool especially on the high leads. Didn't care for the orange drop or the original much at all.
I like the Russian, Epiphone, and Vintage Fat for the 22s. Very subtle differences, even smaller than tone wood, the most different one was the Russian, being a little sweeter than others, and the Epiphone and Vintage fat were similar, but less extreme than the Russian.
Thanks for this. They all sound identical. I extracted the audio, and played it to some musician friends blind. It is amazing how fast the differences vanish when you don't know in advance what you are listening to.
Get some better speakers then. That or you are deaf. Massive differences.
For me it was an even smaller difference than tone wood or fret material. I accept that I most likely wouldn't be able to tell except for the two most extreme differences unless you labeled them as the OP did in the video. Best one was the Russian PIO, but again, not something at all to worry about unless you're min-maxing what the removal of that hissy/sibilant overtone that many guitars have.
Well, my vested interest in tone chasing via capacitor types has been greatly depreciated thanks to this. That certainly saves some time.
The cleanest and most thorough test I’ve seen. Ive been convinced to change my opinion on this a dozen times and you’ve put it to rest in my opinion. I’m very thankful for my ears because the differences clear to me and more extreme than id have assumed at a best case. Thank you. As for myself, playing with tone adjustments one chord strum at a time is about as fun as actually playing guitar. I guess partly Cuz i can look forward to using the tones. Point is i spend plenty time making micro adjustments throughout my chain exploring tonal differences. And often they are for as much or even less variation than you’ve demonstrated here. Good job man.
These are the tests I have been looking for. Thank you for this video. To me there is very little difference to worry about them. From now on I will simply use what I have or reclaimed.
You must be a master at organization. I would have been lost half way through the video editing and gave up.
Thanks for posting this. All your videos are great.
thanks for doing the comparison seconds apart. so many people make you skip through a video to find the things you are comparing
I realise this is older video but I'm just learning about capicators while having my Jazzmaster built. Most helpful video + explanation of the difference I've encountered it's extremely helpful to me. Thank you Jeff
I love the sound of the Mallory, I think it sounds great, especially for lead. I'd choose the vintage gray for rhythm, though.
Yes the Mallory and the Gray we're both quite unique in themselves...
I just would like to say that I appreciate your consistency in what you play, and your documentation in instruments/recording gear, and devotion to accuracy; its like a scientific method approach to guitar tones (not so strictly treble volume however). It is very well done, you should keep it up
.
Man, what a service you performed. Thank you!
What possible reason can there for 12 people to vote this down. This guy goes to all this effort to demonstrate this for YOUR education and it's still not good enough!
+Mark C perhaps the experiment is filled with flaws in the method ..? He gets a 10 for intention and effort :-)
+graham kaveman he says it's not scientific. It's just another example of idiots with a mouse click addiction
perhaps .. they need to feel significant?
All those 29 must be bumblebee caps sellers.
Well, as long as these capacitors don't have the exact same value, this 'test' makes no sense. Everyone of this capacitors has a tolerance of at least 5% and probably up to 25%. That's the little difference you can hear.
What a great test....... I listened close with my old ears and struggled to notice any real difference. As I thought because of my electronic schooling I did not really hear any difference that mattered to me at least (maybe others), ever so slight maybe and even then I questioned my hearing. A lot of snake oil goes into selling upgrades. I think we should all just focus more on our playing :-). Pickups make a big difference and yes you need decent electronics/wiring and not pure crap components but the test shows that these changes did not really make a difference that mattered. Cheers guys!!
I hear more difference between playing on monday versus playing on tuesday.
Old capacitors usually raise in value, which would be the #1 difference. The differences from one to another amount mostly to the differences in tolerance. Most stock caps will vary up to 10% from their stated value, meaning that 2 could be 20% apart.
@@DeadKoby I have looked at several manufacturer's ageing information and also a research paper, and at least for ceramics and electrolytics, capacitance is lost with age.
I'm just learning about capacitors. Your videos have been helpful for demonstrating the difference they make. Thanks.
Thank you for producing this comprehensive comparison.
I can hear slight differences, but the differences are minuscule compared to the tone differences one can achieve with attack changes. Perhaps the capacitor differences are more apparent in some genres than others? I play old school R&B, R&R and Blues ('40s, '50s and '60s mainly) with the guitar straight in to an old tube amp.
Whenever the topic of guitar tone caps comes up in discussions I refer participants to this video. Thanks again!
Orange Drops win for me, the most balanced and warm sounding for my ears. Thank you very much, John!
Best,
Phil
Terrific!!!! Congratulations, i was searching for this test since 2005.
orange drop and the mallory both sounded the same, and the best to my ears. Very good video, I enjoyed it.
I can hear a remarkable difference. I was surprised how much the low end shifted between some of the material types (paper in oil was especially different), as well as the difference in mids and highs between all the caps, even with the volume on 10. Certain caps had a totally different mid character. This video is fascinating, thanks for doing it!
Great video,it had great potential and capacity
Thanks a bunch for doing this. your A-B comparisons with the Bill Nye wire setups have answered a lot of questions that 6 hours of reading articles over the past few days did not. I have a better idea what parts to order now. My wife is grateful that I wont have to spend a week with wires everywhere doing all the comparisons myself.
John, thank you for being so precise and scientific with all of your comparison videos, you make it easy to compare different elements of the guitar and to decide with confidence. …..and I'm a bass player!
Yes Sir. Good demonstration. All these capacitors are quite similar but there are little details in the sound. I´ve never thought the capacitor could modify in this way the sound. Thanks for your effort.
Interesting, I went into this video really only knowing paper in oil caps where "better for tone" during the test its what I thought sounded best. The power of suggestion is strong....
Before I read that others had posted that they liked the Fat Gray's I had chosen them as well for best tone. Just a more rounded tone. Thanks for the vid. Effective effort to teach. Now its off to Part 2.
The tropical fish stood out to me because it sounded like a tropical fish -_-
Best for me:
Mallory and Russian
As always, nice work on all the side by side short clips. VERY helpful. Thanks - Lumpy
hey this isn't the first time I reviewed this vid for ideas on tone caps,, alot o work, nice vid 2 thumbs up!
A lot of work...Thanks John..!!!!! We all needed this test.!!!
Vintage Vibe P90s. I rarely come across those. I bought a set of eBay and love them. About the capacitors....I am going to be massively unpopular but I prefer the openess and slightly lighter touch of the Epiphone originals on most of these tests. I guess that makes me a cheap date. Thanks for the posting. A lot of thorough and informative work.
Pio sounds awesome!
Amazing job, thanks very much for give me a clear perspective of how the type of material from the cap affect the tone
thanks
Russian PIO and the Fat Gray +1 with Mallory close behind. Thank you so much for doing this... I didn't realize the cap made so much difference with tone pot wide open. I always thought it affected the tone as you introduced the pot resistance.
Well, listing on studio monitors, here's what I think. Of course you have to turn speaker volume up a bit. The ones I think mentioning:
***Mallory: most evenly EQ'd, great clarity with tightest bass. No wonder tube amp builders use these.
****Russian PIO: best mids, warm clarity and punch. Retained tone better when turning pots down (fits guitar freq's best).
**Vintage Yellow Film/Foil: Less bass and mids, highs little harsh, but actually close to the PIO but less natural.
*Mullard Mustard-Fat Grey: Awkward sound, too much flabby bass and pretty muddy to my ears. Maybe best for thin sounding guitar.
**Tropical Fish: Decent clarity, plenty of highs, but mids were lacking. Not a bad cap.
.
I like the Russian then a close second the stock epi. None of them sound bad though. Great comparison.
I do honestly appreciate your efforts here, as they are obviously honest and well intended to educate and freely share what information you gather.
Might I kindly suggest however, that the results and observations from this comparison are left completely susceptible to unintentional corruption by not being conducted in a double-blind manner. If you were able to find the time to repeat these comparisons, but this time maintaining a constant tested value while ensuring that both the player and the listener had no knowledge of what cap was engaged at what time, I believe you would come away with entirely different conclusions in the end.
I offered no opinions or conclusions in this video- I've left it up to the viewer.
In my notes below the video, I include a link to the recordings so you can conduct your own double blind test using a tool like ABX.
I measured all the cap values on camera in the followup videos, parts 3&4.
True, and you've been very forthright in all your methods, and generous in your efforts to allow for individual judgements. In the follow up videos you do suggest however, that differences heard may likely be due to different properties of the dielectrics, and your videos are often cited by others to support this theory.
I would simply and respectfully suggest however, that changes heard may be due to other influences, from player consistency (a daunting control near impossible to eliminate variances with in situ testing), to subconscious influence on the player as much as the listener, regardless how pure their intentions.
I've tried for years to verify existence of a dielectric tonal influences in double blind tests, where neither the player nor listener was aware of what cap was engaged in any position, with tests designed only to identify a change rather than a preference or subjective description. Once carried out in a double blind test however, I've yet to find a single person who could demonstrate abilities to accurately identify a difference, regardless of how much I tried to allow for ideal opportunity.
I do believe that if you were ever to repeat similar tests in a double blind scenario, you would likely find difficulty verifying any dielectric influence here as well. Again, all respect and gratitude to you, as you've freely contributed great amounts of good information to the public with your videos, and have lot's of bigger fish to fry with this work in the past. I just feel these cap evaluations may have lacked suitable controls to ensure changes perceived were indeed caused by the subject being examined. I've posted videos with an abbreviated snapshot of the testing methods I've used over the years if you're interested.
A2Guitars All valid points. It is indeed hard to make strong conclusions in an uncontrolled playing environment such as this I have thought about rigging up a noise generator and spectrum analyzer and doing a new series of recordings, but in the end haven't had the time/passion to undertake it .
I personally can't hear too much difference, I'm willing to bet that a lot of it is due to the tolerances of the cap materials, but either way, that's a really nice sounding guitar!
Amazing. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
i was wonderin how to test and change the tone on my new fender which sound not as crispy as the old fender. then god send you. thanks a million.
The differences are larger than expected. Thanks.
The people who can tell the difference either don’t have a good speaker setup or can’t tune their guitar without an electronic device to tell them it’s in tune. Good review and thanks for going to the effort to do it. I’m a Russian paper & oil (Vitamin Q or Bumblebees) with usually 50’s style wiring myself. Thanks again.
I have often wondered about this kind of thing and to my ears the differences are not enough for me to worry about, if there are any differences at all. It's not enough for me to rush out and get a expensive paper in oil or whatever because so and so uses one and swears by it. Tone is so subjective and if guitars players obsessed over playing as much as they do over silly things like this there would probably be a lot better players out there ! lol having said that I am just as guilty as everyone else about this kind of thing. Sometimes you just have to step back and take a breath. Thank you John for taking the time to do this, nice job !
Very well said (if two years ago).
hi john. i think its like a lot of things a matter of taste. i have done a passive treble and bass control on my strat.came out well, with the treble bleed on the vol pot.the caps i used were old mustard one they had most responce. but thanks its good to see others take pride in sound. and love these types of videos. thankyou
You did a thing that everyone wanted to know.
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you put in here. such a credible test.. also your other vids.
I found this so useful. Though I do think how old your strings are and playing technique have more effect on tone than the material of the caps, I could hear some difference - had to close my eyes and listen several times though. Many thanks for going to the trouble of doing this - a real public service. Just checked your blog now and dusting off the soldering iron.
This is a very well thought out vid and informative, not like some ppl on here trying to show off thanks for the up.
Amazing video! I have more than 20 guitars and know I’ll try some pio’s.....
Very useful video, thanks a lot Mister Cooper!
The orange drop has a more zesty low-high end and the Russian paper oil has a more slick readable under bite while the vintage yellow cylinder has more purple relish undertones.
That gray one is sweet! Also the Russian. They both have excellent note definition.
I swear there are differences and discrepancies with folks ability to hear because I always hear the differences. It has to be why certain folks are drawn to cooking, great at racing cars, like sex a bit more....you name it and someone out there is more sensitive to it. Great job and thank you 🙏
Great demonstration John, as always!
The PIO sounds very nice, but I was suprised by the vintage yellow one (which sounds like the PIO but with a hint more treble through),and the tropical fish. Those 3 would be the best IMO.
Very nice! thank you
Loved this video. Was waiting for someone to do a cap review.
What great idea for comparison, thanks! Notice the tone difference on the single notes but hardly as all on the chords.
@aaronkon- no the mullard doesn't need to "burned in", and yes it will work fine even though a guitar signal is < 1V,
I'm with you Adam. There is some difference, but I certainly wouldn't go to any trouble to go out and find the say the Russian one and actually replace the part. I think for some gear heads it is important (and entertaining) to get the 'best' of everything. For me, I tend to just work with what I have and make it work rather than going crazy to find 'the perfect tone'
Brilliant! For me the Yellow Cylinders came out on top. The Russian PIO sounded too muddy. Also, in fairness, the orange drop gives a great clear crisp tone. I can see why Gibson favours them. I'd probably go with that too if I wanted to get the best all round crispness from Burstbuckers. On the 57's I'd definitely go vintage electronics.
Great video, very helpful to me as I've recently changed the pickups and control plate, wiring etc on my Tele. Didn't quite get the tone I was looking for. I can rule out the caps as the differences are negligible. Thanks very much
Awesome video bro, it was very helpful to me. Nice job!
I just did this with a vintage style Strat and the difference seemed larger. I was using a .1uF cap (much higher) and preferred the russian PIO for a full classic rock/blues sound. A lot of it depends on the volume you play, OD levels, type of music and what you like to hear.
Thanks heaps for this demonstration side by side. Really shows the subtle differences between them. :)
.022uF Orange Drops and Vintage Yellow Cylinder have a little more treble
Mallory wins to my ears. I do think it is a matter of taste. Can't say objectively which is better. The Mallory is the sweetest to me. But what is sweet? The differences are so slight too. Different amps could make me choose another too.
I love these kinds of tests!
very interesting video .... the Russian paper in oil stood out a lot to me
I like the yellow cylinder best eithe Russian paper an oil next. Both had the bit I like.
Thanks for a great video.
Russian paper in oil all the way!
Sounded best on the open octave 12th fret.
Very thorough. Thanx
Maybe I missed this, but did you measure the actual capacitance of all the products tested. I suspect that differences in tone are due to variations in capacitance, not due to the choice of dielectric material.
The Chicago music exchange Gibson relic style caps I just seen a vid where they pull of the plastic nostalga cover and its a Wesco 32 cap. but is useful for relic and original appearance as well as refurbished playing classic guitars.
Just a demo I was looking for, thx, but I think it would be much more "scientific" if you had a looper and put that trough all caps as it would rule out any differences in fingering and picking strength.
agreed- I should've done that!
vintage fat grey cylinders are the tone i like. thanks for the nice video
Great video my friend, I found this fascinating & can hear big differences between them... though I am wearing headphones which I think helps.
The tropical fish is doing what you most wanted out of those pick ups which was brightening them.
Thanks for putting in the effort! I found it very beneficial.
awesome video! it'd be great to hear the same thing with a little bit of crunch
Great video! Honestly I couldn't tell any difference but on two. The factory cap seemed slightly brighter, and the tropical fish seemed slightly fuller. I'm a bass builder / player, not a guitar player however. I'd like to do the same test with a jazz bass.
I think the results are subjective, each person will hear little differences to each cap and can perhaps like one over the other.
You can tell (barely) that all except the orange drop seem to be a little bassy with the chording. Very interesting vid. Thanks for posting!
Thanks for doing this. Great demo my friend.
Once the drummer kicks in what's the difference?
There is no difference, even without the drummer. Blind studies have shown there's no difference between these... none.
Nothing worth taking a soldering iron to a guitar for, IMO. Any noticeable difference is likely to be down to tolerance variation between the different caps, not construction materials. Great job with the vid though.
No way. Just listened to this with a set of headphones while laying on my couch while my computer is on the desk. Lots of difference in shimmer and harmonics I can hear. Not super drastic but you can absolutely hear difference in these tones. Because the tone cuts frequencies in the highs you really have to focus your ear to these frequencies and how they effect the mid and bass.
There are some that say u can hear a difference in the material that a cap is made of and that some are better than others . Believe he is doing this demo so whoever may hear it, can kno and understand for themselves if there is a difference or not. Some have already decided they cant tell a difference between any of em. Which i believe was the purpose of this vid. Least thats the way it seems to me. Hell i couldnt hear any difference either. Cheers
If your guitar tone is insignificant once the drummer starts, I suggest you need a new drummer. Or your just tone deaf. Either way, good luck with it
Of course there is a variation of picking, but we can find the tendency.
BRIGHT&THIN=Mallory, Original Epiphone
DARK&(bit)MUDDY=RussianPaper, Vintage Fat Gray
FAT&Responsable=OrangeDrop, Vintage Yellow
But this tendency has changed when TONE=1, Mallory& Original Epiphone got muddy.
I don't put Orange Drops into my amplifier too often, but it sounds good on your video. Thank you for a valiable shootout!
As subtle as it may be I can hear a difference in every one of the capacitors. Many sounded very similar but the fact that he rapidly progressed through the series of examples being compared enabled my ears to hear differences. The graphic display showed, for the most part, the same frequencies being dumped and the frequencies that remained, which where exactly the same for all capacitors, yet the amplitudes varied noticeably for the remaining frequencies, with the amplitude curves either smoothed out or jagged with spikes. And having no incremented reference as to the amplitude of a given frequency, which on an oscilloscope would be the (+) or (-) voltage reference of the sine wave, it's hard to say how much more or less a capacitor affected each frequency displayed with the graphics.
Not everyone is able to hear these differences, just like not every guitar player can play by ear. Not every guitar player can hear the intervals or the modes, but they can learn to play the song. Some people hear the music from some inner source, while others learn it externally.
In the ancient Greek language there are two ways "to know";
One is "Ghenosko" an outward and learned knowledge.
The other is "Oida" an inward and conscious knowledge of the heart.
And here I must say that because you can't hear see or feel what someone else does doesn't mean it's wrong and it's the result of a vivid imagination.
Remember not everyone can play the guitar. Those of us who can are blessed with that gift and we shouldn't be demeaning someone else for theirs because we don't have it.
Anyway enough said. There is a difference in the capacitors tone's as in our capacity to hear...
Great demonstrating of the small differences in tone between different caps man. What voltage are all those caps? It might atribute to tonal differences..
To me, the Mallory was the most articulate and least muddy as the tone was rolled off. The Russian PIO was next. The Orange Drop is LAST! YOWSA! Granted, the attack might have been slightly different as each pass occured, but to consistently play clearer when just the Mallory was in, is hard to believe was intentional or a coincidence. Enough passes that led to the same conclusion happened for me to trust my judgement. YMMV! VERY COOL!
Great comparison vid.
The PIO and Orange Drop are the most musical for sure. The Epiphone and Tropical Fish are most harsh(in a subtle way) and have no life to them.
awesome vid. thank you so much for taking the time. very, very helpful.
Monumental work... 5 stars!
All 22nF sound the same, 33nf a bit darker. But having more expensive cap makes audiophile happier. So go for it who needs it. I've got mallory radial polypropylene 22nf to prevent thinking that something could compromise my sound in guitar, but I don't really believe that it changes anything. Just avoid tantalum, ceramics and electrolitycs. You could even create Your own caps if You like, just copper foil, paper, candle, 2 wires. Audiophiles hear with their eyes, that's the secret. Great job!
Great vid! I heard more of a difference with the pot on 10 to 5. No difference when turned to zero. Def proves I'm not insane noticing a difference in tone with having caps in even with it full up.
That Fat Gray Cilinder is a Mullard according to my knowledge. Great demo!!
thanks for the video.
so I'm using my new sony mdr-10rst head phones wired, I favor the old yeller, next as a 'general' frequency spread, the original cap from epie. Next to that the fish cap.
I'm sure if I'd amp this through the home 4way set, and carver amps it would be different still.
I've built many home speakers and everything has something different! Man its just cool how sound can change to every ones ears!
paper in oil and vintage yellow cylinder are my fav
There isn't any audable difference to concern any one to go and change their similar caps.Then we have other variables like pickups, amp and speakers room acoustics and so on.Probably best using your time to perfect your playing.
well done! Great review and the spectrum is a real touch :)
For some reason I'm digging the Russian and Tropical fish caps.
Too lazy to read through all comments, but was wondering: did you test the actual cap values? If they're +/-5% (or worse), some of the differences could be due to values. ESR ratings would also be of interest. Great vid showing some great work. Thanks for this!
Thank you John, very helpful :)
I find myself most enjoying the mallory and fat gray cylinder, I also liked the yellow cylinder and paper-in-oil for most examples, and they really shone on a few. Honorable mention: tropical fish, which was really cool especially on the high leads. Didn't care for the orange drop or the original much at all.
I like the Russian, Epiphone, and Vintage Fat for the 22s. Very subtle differences, even smaller than tone wood, the most different one was the Russian, being a little sweeter than others, and the Epiphone and Vintage fat were similar, but less extreme than the Russian.
Orange cap sound brighter and adds attack. I've recently installed orange and WOWWW.