'The Grenfell Tower fire is a crime of epic proportions' | Owen Jones meets David Lammy
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
- David Lammy says heads 'need to be on the block' over the Grenfell Tower fire in west London. He told me he wants to see resignations and a proper police investigation into the failure to protect scores of people from being burnt to death in their own homes. Lammy, who is the Labour MP for Tottenham, says the fire is comparable to Hurricane Katrina and talked to me about the very real effects of austerity.
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Some of the reporters that blame the fire staff and their fire policy are an absolute disgrace. When our public services have been cut so hard for so long and a disaster like this occurs it is the legislation for housing that is at fault, not the procedure of fire departments (which works for all buildings that are safe to any reasonable standard). The press needs an overhaul! I'm sick of billionaires like Murdoch poisoning the public consciousness of this country and it needs reform now!
Yeah, I agree. While we're at it, close down the Guardian.
how about just increasing regulation across the board and not allowing monopolies for any single person or collective corporation over the press?
Then we should close down the BBC too? And the unions?
why though?
Too left wing? ...Or is that ok?
I don't think this will be able to be hidden and ignored, this will be one of the biggest scandals in the last 50 years.
Resignations/sackings is not enough there needs to be criminal charges if decisions were made to neglect safety
it could go to hillbrough levels of scandal
MrEvilnastyman it *should* go to that level. it *is* the same level
unfortunately with May and Rudd in charge i've got no faith it will for a number of years
It's right up there with the Rotherham child abuse scandal.
Bert Cooper I agree
This is Hillsborough for a new generation.
Cobblers.
@@waynebrittain372Not really
We cannot wait for another public enquiry which will only go on for years . With the long passage of time the state will hope people will forget and so enable them to sweep it all under the carpet. We need to treat this building as the crime scene it is and an immediate criminal investigation should ensue.
Debbie Smith what do you suggest instead just put some rich peoples names into a hat and whoever gets pulled out we shoot
1: Who commissioned the contractor and which sub-contractors did the main contractor employ.
2: Why was the more flammable cladding panels used because each one was £2 cheaper per square metre than the more secure inflammable panels. Was the loss of life really worth the extra £5000 saving in cost? (Those same panels are banned In the US. Confusion over whether the material is legal in the UK still remains.
3: Why was sprinklers not a priority over exterior cladding? Could it be the cladding was to make an eyesore of a building more aesthetically pleasing to the surrounding gentrified areas? One thing we do know, this "refurbishment" compromised the fire safety of the entire building.
At the very least criminal negligence has occurred and those responsible should be prosecuted for manslaughter.
Debbie Smith isnt that what the inquiry will do?
In my opinion public enquiries are designed to stall any accountability of wealthy people at a lot of expense to the tax payer who foot the bill.
What we need is a police *investigation* without any influence or interference from the state.
Debbie Smith you do understand that the police would not have the level of power as an parliamentary enquiry, a police enquiry would also take years, the world is a complicated place
It can't be understated about the pain you feel in his words. He's speaking truth to power and it's inspiring to me.
Just a good actor mate
A powerful interview - David Lammy one of the few I would trust and support to get justice for the victims - and to empower their voice. The hope of many depend upon people like David Lammy and on people like Owen getting a different narrative out there.
ha ha
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Owen could you try to do a video with Adam Curtis sometimes in the future?
Jack Tanner I second this
@@littledreams77 I bet curtis wouldn't touch him with a bargepole
A case of an M P who has real humanity and an interest in people very refreshing I am a strong supporter of the intense integrity and decent honesty of David Lammy GOD BLESS him
MP David Lammy spoke incredible eloquently and from the heart, his words and thoughts were deeply moving.
Lets hope others listen and make sure that this terrible event at Grenfell Tower is never repeated and those who are culpable are brought to justice swiftly.
Remember Summerland 1973 - 44 years later there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for those who failed in their responsibility for the instigation, projection, execution, supervision, approval and handover of a newly renovated building which, on all the evidence so far, did not appear to have prevented the surface spread of flame in accordance with modern Building Regulations. There should be no need to worry about 'criminals' concealing incriminating evidence. As in the case of general EU consumer protection, e.g. the purchase of any electrical appliance or car etc, all new Works should be accompanied by their relevant project and execution documentation which should be registered and available in the public domain and should justify and serve as a traceable link as to how that compliance was achieved in the finished product. At final handover, execution, use, maintenance and emergency documents should show ALL that needs to be known to demonstrate that this building did in fact comply - otherwise the Council has got some very difficult questions to answer...
Nothing but disgust for this government. Nothing but respect for David Lammy. x
This tragedy will and should be politicised. As for the state of 'British politics', it ceased to exist with the advent of New Labour and the elevation of the 'free market' to its current unquestionable status. Let the Grenfell Legacy be that 'British Politics' returns as an actual thing.
Great interview
Wonderful to see a politician speaking from his heart. Such a strong message of hope given here.
Very proud of having an MP that cries of anger when faced with injustice!
You can't seriously beleive this man is sincere - surely?
He doesn't sound remotely incensed to me. He sounds like he's putting on a emotional performance.
WhyOWhy
Labour voters don't care about Iraq, or that this MP fought very hard to prevent the truth coming out.
Shame he's a war monger though :(
Very proud of an MP who rejects democracy?
I fundamentally disagree with David Lammy on The European Union because I believe it actively promotes a neo-liberal economic model, with everything that brings. However, I think his analysis of Grenfell is outstanding. Mr. Lammy is clearly a passionate and committed humanitarian.
Wonderful interview. Love to all.
First time I've heard of this guy. So heartfelt. You can tell the difference between the average Labour MP and the Cons. Labour MPs appear Human and not all about profit and meaningless soundbites.
Excellent stuff as always. Superb interview, more people working for us like David
Slagged Lammy off a bit in the past. His work around this awful event has made me reconsider him more. respect to him.
Isn't sadiq khan the mayor of london?.
Thought it was the mayors job to oversee the people overseeing these things.
It’s local councils u dense idiot
check all the Councillors bank accounts from 6 months before the refurbishment (if they are not in a tax haven) for payments from the contractors. All of them.
Great video. Thanks Owen, glad I saw this. Also just finished 'The Establishment' and it was profoundly interesting and quite shocking.
Honest words, the state don't like honesty. So sad to see are country is being run into the ground.
The Bradford Fire is another comparison.
The fact is if the tower was full of native white British, Owen and the rest of the media wouldn't of given two shits
Never been a great fan of David Pammy but the man spoke the truth here. Keep up the pressure on those responsible for this crime
Cheers Owen for this fantastic interview with David Lammy, and for really letting him speak and not cutting him off from his true feelings. Real respect for Mr Lammy. But must say the person who agreed to letting the contractor put up the cheaper version of the cladding is at the heart of this, and how can he/she sleep at night?
As an American, I thought of Katrina before he mentioned it...AND what many people forget or don't know/remember is that on 9/11 while the first tower was burning before the second was hit, all occupants of the untouched tower were told to remain calm and carry on. No need to evacuate! Some people jumped up and left anyway but the second tower was hit lower trapping more people AND fell first!
I don't know what it is that both allows the hubris to declare safety by some where there is none and removes the agency from some for their own safety. I am NOT blaming any of these victims for their own circumstance! I think it's that whether in the UK or the US we are indoctrinated to think that those in "power" know best and have our interests at heart. They do not.
London fire dept Told people to stay in a building on fire .
See Grenfell inquiry notes and minutes and recording of Lfd officers saying this .
Awful
I wasn't so sure about David Lammy. I am now.
“It was exactly 12.50am because I was sleeping and it woke me up. When we got up, I saw his luggage outside his flat, there was a big bag with his clothes.
“The fire was small in the kitchen. I could see it because the door was open. There was no alarm.”
Given that the Hillsborough families had to wait nearly thirty years for justice, I'm not very hopeful...
Those victims were only white people though.
but they were poor whites.Still, you're right. I guess if you're black or immigrant AND poor you'll probably never ever get justice
Kensington & Chelsea Council agreed to the contractor using the controversial non fire-resistant cladding which should not have been fitted to Grenfell Tower. UK fire regulations provide the public with different levels of protection for the public & private sectors.
The breakers in the plugs to all appliances needed correcting, more neglect!
Excellent interview. Real MP. If only there was more like him
Makes good pens
Grenfell is a totem for all the deaths that have already been occurring caused by austerity
That a lot of people died on one day may lead to action, if they'd died slowly it would have been (and has been) ignored
It is tragic that in order to wake people up something like this needs to happen
Owen could you please do an interview with John Prescott
Praying that the MET actually pull their fingers out, holding the culprits accountable. Rather than taking backhanders and turning their heads.
Why did the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea use that type of cladding? According to the Guardian, the ex chief executive of RBKC and the owner of the cladding company are both on the board at homeless charity Shelter. They are pals! And they both resigned from the charity today, after being oh so quiet since Grenfell. Well fancy that...
what a brilliant and passionate interview
Great words well said
Owen could you please do an interview with Douglas Murray thanking you in anticipation
I for one love David. His speeches, even though I am not religious, in parliament, are beautiful and heartfelt. I wish he was the mayor because I think he would have got on top of things, like the concerns of the people in that tower block, quicker than most because of his background and his connection to the average jo/joe on the street. We mustn't let time make this issue go away. It's killing people. I also love Sadiq but I wanted David to be mayor. No shade
how terribly sad. very well put though
Respect for his response to Grenfell, but could you ask him why he voted for the Iraq war and against all investigations into it? He seems like a normal corporate blairite when you look at his voting record.
Why were people told to stay in the building? Surely that can't the procedure during a fire, which cannot be stopped. Best to try and escape surely?
Euan Will because it causes the stairwells to be blocked and then you get a crush.
So you're damned if you do and if you don't, horrible.
They wouldn't have done if the owner of the fridge that caused the fire hadn't opened his window to let the smoke out before he ran off, instead of trying to tackle the small fire in his kitchen.
Lammy does indeed speak powerfully totally agree with him...Just very slightly annoying he keeps saying GLENFELL...Jeez!!!?!!
Labour passed these Heath and safety and fire safety laws how ironic😂😂
Charlie B this was more than about labour vs conservative or left vs right. This is about the failure of consecutive governments to properly fund our local governments and public services
Do you mean the number of illegal immigrants living in the tower or the guy that left his flat on fire without raising the alarm and just left dozens of people to burn in their sleep?
what about the upwards of 250 million in funding in council coffers
We went about it wrong
How can the police do anything about Grenfell when the crime is in the politics of gentrification where poor people are not cared for and being kicked out of the city?
The police is not going to charge the former mayor of London Boris Johnson, neither the new mayor of London Sadiq Khan, The Police is not going to charge Theresa May and the Tory Government who denied mandating sprinklers and safer/better housing for the poor, The Police is not going to charge anyone from the council of Kensington and Chelsea, not even the sub-contractor who renovated the building, that renovation which probably was approved by all kinds of inspectors and by the council and the TMO, they have lawyers, none of them would do anything illegal and so the police investigation will not change anything.
Could we not just accept that this was a terrible accident.
Words cannot describe how bad what happened in Grenfell Tower was. And make no mistake it goes right to the heart of where politics is at now in Britain. The people of the richest borough in London watching it unfold and their only reaction is "oh dear that's not going to play well in the media". They know nothing and they have no humanity. And they must be held accountable.
But it must start with the Grenfell Tower residents being given every chance to rebuild their lives. Because if there is to be a "Great" in Britain's name then that what it means.
It seems to escape the discourse that there are other infernal towers where immediate action is required.
If this really could be a crime (and malice does seem to be involved), shouldn't the Director of Public Prosecutions (not in a leading-rôle the police) be investigating?
Much respect to David ✊🏻
David Lammy for Shadow Home Sec!
What gives these two individuals the right and authority to be judge, jury and executioners... "People's heads on the block" is the demand. There is a due process to this tragedy and the guilty (once charged, tried and convicted of criminal charges) will go to jail. I wouldn't trust this pair with the scales of justice!
Sir John Hall these two don't have any power to be judge, jury or executioner. It is an interview to find out the views of an elected MP.
Arthur Embleton Lamy's views are pretty clear "heads on block" etc... Before any findings or trials. This is rebel rousing based on the deaths of innocent people. Remind me of how Lamy voted on the invasion of Iraq and his views on justice on the subsequent deaths of hundreds of thousands... He and Owen are sickening!
I cry, my Cat , just looks at me, Why don't you look, at US Kitties like that, I think she has a point.
Realness
I'm a UK citizen in the US. To date, this is by far the most incisive, insightful, sincere and eloquent commentary I've encountered on the subject of Grenfell Tower. I've been waiting and hoping to hear somebody - anybody - come straight out and say these things in some public venue. RUclips brought me here randomly - I've already subscribed. Thank you to both Mr. Lammy & Mr. Jones.
Google: Labour 25.
Both are are right pair of Winkers with an A
Really sad. They lost a friend in that fire. I agree that this is already political. Why no arrests, why no immediate summons, If this happened further up the road it would be a different conversation.
Sack the politicians. Knight the volunteers.
well done lads ... great vid
I am an Australian and I am sending my thoughts to you guys. Find these bastard CEOS who contributed to the scores of innocent deaths. Voices who will never be heard again, find justice for them.
The UK is a country that has war helicopters , Fighting submarines , war ships and every other plane ready to transport war tanks abroad anytime and anywhere when America wants and decides regime change . But not ! a larger ladder or firefighting helicopter to throw water in a building , to save people lives thats's crazy . Just so sad the way this people died
when people are paying for their own flats they expect the best, council saving money make it habitable for as cheap as possible. people always have to die before things get done. the majority in this country don't believe in taxing those with money to make society better, so what do you do?
The fire in London....what about the people who rented in second or third hand?Do they really know who lived there?And the dead people,does the relatives of these ones get any compensation?Immigrants supporting famillies abroad, with relatives abroad will the government make sure their deaths will be known????I saw the fire live on streaming and do not believe anybody survived but a very few 500 are dead at least
Oh god, Labour blaming the wealthy for the tower blocks - Labour haven't stood up for the poor working class in decades (and Lammy needs to avoid using race because in this instance the poor working class in the entire country is actually white, leave the inner city and this is unbelievably true, and this will just allow many to dismiss
Lammy as a black man with only black concerns), and actually there is not the system or infrastructure that would allow any mp who had been lobbied by tenants to create change immediately or in any significant time if at all...
I initially despised the idea of Mayors over a city cabinet, but we now need people and a structure to allow change through democracy...and make good use of power...
Our country is rotten to the core. Those who physically do the dirty deeds are the most culpable not the ones who order it, remember that.
horrific evil? the council granted 8.5m to renovate the look of a building for tenants that vastly don't contribute anything to their £2500/month housing; which I couldn't dream to afford, so they're not 'ignored' by a longshot.
grave mistakes are made by the renovation designers, contractors and building managment, materials out of regulation, and perhaps a fridge company and a tenant that didn't observe a bad compressor are responsible too. dry risers don't block themselves, is it such a stretch of the imagination to think unruly tenants added yet another boon to the fire?
not the tory government that you'd wished would be responsible eh, yet crass, flawed protests persist.
shit happens, shit happened in 2009 too, but people got on with it instead of pushing losing politics, racist epithets and unrelatable mlk phrases.
don't ever believe more social housing is the answer, labour want a country of underachievers and economically reliant voters, they'll never incentivise work - and more and more people will be slummed, poor and living in lapsing unsafe towers. anyone old enough to remember these prefab towers going up in the 70s and the 80s will remember they were marketed as the brand new ideal home for city dwellers, fast forward 30 maintenance lapsing, low budget squaloring years and here's what it gets you.
its's an uncomfortable truth slums occur due to their inhabitants. so give inhabitants a meritocracy fueling self-worth and playing parts in society and change the trend.
Johnline they didn't need cladding or want cladding. They NEEDED a central fire alarm, sprinklers, fire hydrants, a new gas pipe going through the only fire exit, emergency fire lights, not having the only area for fire engines to get close to the building built up, the electrical faults that had caused damage to equipment to the point of releasing smoke fixed, a working elevator, NOT uneccessary cladding to make the building a pretty death trap.
Owen jones "So this is a story of austerity, isn't it?" Er... funnily enough Owen no its not This block Grenfell Tower has had money lavished on it - the lifts were totally refurbed in 2006 I think, £10Million was spent on refurbing the exterior and also the reception area and offices and sadly the exterior cladding. For a start, we don't know if the less flammable insulation material was available at the time some say yes, others no. It was a tragic error that the SWP (socialist workers party) and others have politised for basically their own selfish ends, the SWP - who at any tragedy will be feeding off people’s pain and heartbreak - they don't care - they just care about trying to get a revolution going.I used to live in this block on the 5th floor many years ago and had two friends on floor 14 and two on floor 1 who all managed to get out OK (one was on holiday at the time she's back today but devastated) Firstly, there will be a lot more causalities than first thought. Many flats were (illegally) sub-let whilst I was living there, and a friend who lives there now who tells me it was pretty much the same as when I was there. Also, I read the report of the poor Italian couple who were trapped on the same floor (14) as my friends escaped from (Lee and Petra) the Italian guy said he couldn’t get down because the stairwell had smoke and flames coming out of it. There is only one stairwell in that building as it’s a bad design, the stairwell is also very narrow which meant firefighter had difficulty negotiating it. As it seems that the fire, as far as we know ATM, started from a fridge exploding and catching fire and then through the flats windows igniting the cladding how come the stairwell being in approx the middle of the tower and made of concreate with metal handrails was unable to be used. The only way that the stairwell could have a fire in it was it rubbish was as was the case when I lived there, was dumped in it. Families also on about 4 - 5 floors seemed to think that the landing were places they could store stuff they couldn’t fit in the flat- despite being repeatedly told not to do it.Another thing that was a regular occurrence while living there was that some people in the flat had undocumented family and friends staying with them, totally against the tenancy rules.Back to the cladding which was childishly described as “tarting up the building so the new locals in their swanky flats wouldn’t have to look at an eyesore.” Well yes that’s certainly true but the cladding was fitted as a frequent complaint was that the block was too hot in Summer, too cold in Winter. The idea was that the new insulation would fix this problem. It would also - duh! - improve the lives of those living there as they would now no longer be living in something that looked like an eyesore - sadly there was a safety failure that should never have happened, but trying to blame this on austerity is utterly stupid.There is a lot more to come out from this tragedy.
Welcome aboard Mr Lammy. It's shame you couldn't be so vociferously anti-austerity during the election campaign but better late than never. Next election, in just a few months, hopefully a united Labour party with a united message of people before profit can purge us of this destructive government and their cruel policies.
I'd rather go back to the `1970s than the 1800s
These places were built and maintained on both the Cons and Labours watch, dont try and forget that point. Communities need to have their own plans and actions in place as its clear governments are too unwilling and too slow to help.
its not that your politicizing it, its that your using it to score PARTY POLITICAL points
Having a shipload of fiat currency should never gaurantee you not being charged with Capital felony Crime against the Poor or being in the fiction known as govt. ( where ideas are so good they have to be forced on people) always exacerbates the liability of ones criminal actions...when they sandbag...
Thank God we still have some politicians who have integrity and compassion.
I love this guy.
MPs talking of capitalism, greed and classism so candidly ... yes, Labour. Yes, Corbyn, yes Lammy.
so the people who work paid 8.7 million to clad a building for people who dont work ???
Yeah they even got jobs out of it, strange how that one works isn't it. Austerity is a self fulfilling prophecy.
HippieTHEHippo2 spending 8.7 million is austerity ???
Spending 8.7 million is spending 8.7 million. Austerity is strangling your own economy when you need to be nurturing it. Penny pinching led directly to this disaster.... where are you going with this?
I think David Lammy should lead the Labour Party he's said better things than Jerymy Corbin
The Banking crisis has helped the wealth divide, how much has this made leaving people at risk as acceptable?
Anything that happens in this country there are always politicans trying to score political points. As if the same exact thing would have not happened had we had a Labour government. This is much bigger than party politics people. This is the people vs the system, this is missmanagement and ineptitude.
business management wise- they gave them enough money to buy the fire proof stuff. someone did not buy the stuff with the money to buy the stuff or where did that money go. actually they had the left over money and where did it go. to buy donuts! it wasn't their donut budget it was for the siding repairs. then gas in stairs - those pipes is like terrorists would like to bomb the building and blow the stairs when t they run out! that's just crazy. and they had no fire alarms on also. that's not too good also. the rich people gave them the money to fix up the building's facade. So somewhere someone didn't buy the stuff they were suppose to buy with the money. that's like the rich people had known to pay for it and had someone who studied business management give them the money.
Mans got balls he's right
if people are just going to continue complying with the abusive system that is undoubtedly biased towards the big money corporations, events such as this will continue to happen. The corporations can get away with atrocities as statute law only recognises people as dead stock anyway.
I couldn't agree more with David on the very fundation of the whole problem: "behind all of this is money and profit". Now the goverment want to go to the bottom of it. Well, then it's time to put back on the table the housing system in the country and most notably in London. A system purely based on speculation where humans beings are only seen as cash cows. A system whereby no matter if you rent, buy or are a social tenant. You always have to face with house prices ridiculously inflated, unprofessional managing agents, unproportioned service charges with respect to the level of assistance obtained and landlords who simply do not care about their tenants whatsoever. This is central issue they should address, if they really want to...
Matteo Naccari Beautifully said Matteo.
RIP Grenfell victims... Justice must be done..
Why do you never talk about the fact that the English left would force the renewal of Trident on Scotland, wasting hundreds of billions of pounds?
And why have you never talked about what happened with the Scotland bill? The Labour party gleefully lined up to help prevent Scottish home-rule.
I would have posted this comment on any new video, and did so today because of your ridiculous tweets last night.
what happened to the public inquest?
This is a massive tragedy but how did become a political issue? Somewhere down the line an official or a designer or a technician who has yet to be fingered made a serious mistake - end of. Clear the mess help the victims make sure it is not repeated and move on.
40 years ago the Summerland leisure centre in the Isle of Man went up, killing over 50 holidaymakers pretty much all of whom would be native British. The place was a giant plastic envelope but someone in the system had granted a specific one-off exemption to the existing fire regulations and that was it. 3 boys smoking on a stairway was all it took. No screaming by politicians of either party, no aid packages and no memorial until 40 years later, it was just a foul up - end of.
Save The Bees! 🐝🐝🐝 Email your MEPs today! They vote tomorrow!
This tower fire was not the tories fault. FACT.